subject:"What happened to debian \- does stable keep having any meaning\?"

Hello,

Mark wrote:
 So when it's all said and done, it sounds like the safest bet is to edit
 the file that says in all caps DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE.

Once a wise guy said: good software makes complex things look easy

- judging grub2 based on this only, grub2 is worse than grub1  


kind regards

Gero

P.S. May be someone likes to introduce a user-friendly name mapping, where a 
user can create a file like:

hd1, 2 - my name is sue
hd2, 3 - I'm the preffered one :)
hdx, y - last not least, I'm here too

which is evaluated by update-grub.
Extraordinary would be support for placeholders like kernel-version or screen 
resolution, ...


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

I did the tests, you asked me for.
This time I'll attach some pictures, as pictures say more than thousand words 
...

Rebooting from debian after a grub-install/update-grub, situation is shown by 
picture grub01.png
This time I waited more than 10 minutes, so it might be stated, that grub 
isn't busy, but crashed.

Jochen Schulz wrote:
 Can you still make the system bootable again just by removing the extra
 SATA controller? 

No. after removing controller, grub shows less than with controller (picture 
grub02.png).

 Does it suffice to remove the disks from that controller? 

There's no difference, removing just the cables from the controller or removing 
the controller completely (grub02.png).

Remember: there's no system drive attached to the external controller and in 
between I wiped out every MBR except the one from the drive, that should be 
booted from.

 Is there anything else you can do with the hardware or the BIOS to make it
 bootable again?

I don't know what.

BIOS boot order is checked, order of bootable harddisks from BIOS is checked 
too, the drive, that should be booted from is attached to the first Mainboard 
SATA-port ...

So I have no idea, what to change from HW.

  Ok, that's great! I would say that makes you eligible to file a bug
  report against d-i. :) Can you diff the grub.cfg against the one
  generated by 6.0?
  
  How should I do that?
 
 It should be possible to use CD/DVD1 of the 6.0.0 installer and prevent
 upgrades from being installed. The easiest way is probably to unplug the
 network cable during installation.

Seems like 6.0.0 disk images have been removed from mirrors too.
As I normally use netinst-CDs only, I can't do that tests. Sorry.


kind regards

Gero
attachment: grub01.pngattachment: grub02.png

Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

Jochen Schulz wrote:
 Geronimo:
  Jochen Schulz wrote:
  AFAICS, we can rule out the kernel as the cuplrit completely, as grub
  doesn't even get that far.

Today appointments have been cancelled, so I can dedicate myself to grub 
issues.

The fact, that the output of grub changes by removing the external controller 
causes me some headache ...

Does this habbit imply, that BIOS activates the wrong drive?
... but if so, how can grub from ubuntu boot successfully

Or does the different output means, that grub jumps from one mbr to the mbr of 
another drive?

From a closer look to dpkg.log - there has been updates of python and grub 
uses python. Could this lead the different behaviour?


I skimmed the sources of grub and from what I saw, grub does not use libraries 
or kernel stuff, but has reinvented every wheel.
I don't know enuf of assembler to get rid of what's really going on ...

So I have some more questions:
1.) Is there any tool to verify the generated boot.img or tell, what that 
boot.img tries to do?

2.) would it be possible to create several mbr-images that behave different, 
like beep at different frequency or write a little message to screen, ...
... just to verify, which mbr is activated from BIOS

3.) If the pictures from my other post lead to the fact, that BIOS activated 
the right grub image, but that crashed, is there a way to get rid of what grub 
is doing/trying - means, is there a verbose switch or some kind of logging to 
enable?


kind regards

Gero


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 3:08 AM, Geronimo geronimo...@arcor.de wrote:

 Seems like 6.0.0 disk images have been removed from mirrors too.
 As I normally use netinst-CDs only, I can't do that tests. Sorry.

http://ftp.sunet.se/pub/Linux/distributions/debian-cd/
still has 6.0.0 images; for the time being.


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 5:06 AM, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 3:08 AM, Geronimo geronimo...@arcor.de wrote:

 Seems like 6.0.0 disk images have been removed from mirrors too.
 As I normally use netinst-CDs only, I can't do that tests. Sorry.

 http://ftp.sunet.se/pub/Linux/distributions/debian-cd/
 still has 6.0.0 images; for the time being.

http://mirror.yellowfiber.net/debian-cd/
too


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-25 Thread Brian

On Thu 24 Mar 2011 at 14:12:19 -0700, Mark wrote:

 So when it's all said and done, it sounds like the safest bet is to edit the
 file that says in all caps DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE.

Not at all. Create /etc/grub.d/30_otheros and edit it.

#!/bin/bash
exec tail -n +3 50

menuentry Windows {
set root=(hd1,msdos1)
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set find_out_what_to_put_here
chainloader +1
}

Then: update-grub.


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Geronimo:
 
 From a closer look to dpkg.log - there has been updates of python and grub 
 uses python. Could this lead the different behaviour?

Looking at your dpkg.log again, I notice that grub-pc has been purged
and replaced by grub-legacy. Which version of grub are we talking about
again? :)

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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-25 Thread Brian

On Fri 25 Mar 2011 at 10:14:04 +, Brian wrote:

 exec tail -n +3 50

That should be

exec tail -n +3 $0

The file also needs to be made executable.


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

Jochen Schulz wrote:
 Geronimo:
  From a closer look to dpkg.log - there has been updates of python and
  grub uses python. Could this lead the different behaviour?
 
 Looking at your dpkg.log again, I notice that grub-pc has been purged
 and replaced by grub-legacy. Which version of grub are we talking about
 again? :)

As installation of grub-legacy resulted in an error - I purged that too and 
reinstalled grub2, to continue testing.
 - so I don't and didn't loose a word about grub-legacy.


My boot drive currently has 3 primary partitions:
1. Debian stable (my root fs)
2. /boot for debian stable
3. Ubuntu 10.10


calling grub-install from debian stable results in an unbootable machine, 
calling grub-install from ubuntu results in a stable system, where I can boot 
both ubuntu and debian.


regarding to tests 6.0 - download of dvd-1 completed, disk is beeing burned.
tbc ;)


kind regards 

Gero


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Geronimo:
 
 Rebooting from debian after a grub-install/update-grub, situation is shown by 
 picture grub01.png

This doesn't look *that* bad. It hangs right before showing the menu or
at least its command line. I googled for welcome to grub! and found
a hint that this *might* actually be a graphics problem. See this bug
report:

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=594967

It looks like the fix didn't make into stable, but you can try setting
GRUB_TERMINAL=console.

 Jochen Schulz wrote:
 Can you still make the system bootable again just by removing the extra
 SATA controller? 
 
 No. after removing controller, grub shows less than with controller (picture 
 grub02.png).

This is weird. To me, that suggests that grub tries to load one of the
stages from one of the disks on that controller. But I might be wrong.

J.
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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello Ron Johnson,

Am 2011-03-21 12:40:22, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
 Of course, it could be that your mobo doesn't like grub2.  Since the
 grub and Debian developers know that, they made a big, fat warning
 when wanting to install grub2, asking if you're sure that you want
 to do it, since grub2 is still in beta, so it might break.

BUT WHY is grub2 the default for Squeeze?

It breaks installation on 3 of 5 different Mainboards in my office.
Also I have probems on a Sun Fire and an IBM eServer...

Runing Lilo for now 12 years witout problems even on Raid

Also Mounting by UUID is the last crap, because users can mount  devives
but not umount.  I get an error that fstab does  not  match  mtab.  What
crap is this?

In fstab Squeeze has written UUIDs while in mtab you find /dev/sdN which
cause the problems

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
Michelle Konzack

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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello Geronimo,

Am 2011-03-21 19:08:33, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
 Ron Johnson wrote:
  to do it, since grub2 is still in beta, so it might break.
 
 Huh? - Did you ever installed a debian 6.x?
 
 There's no choice to use another boot-manager. You have to use grub (which 
 silently is grub2) or you have to use grub2. If grub2 is really stil beta - 
 what the hell does it do in debian stable?

This is not right, because you can choose LILO.

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
Michelle Konzack

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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello Ron Johnson,

Am 2011-03-21 13:23:56, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
 When I installed Squeeze, it absolutely asked if I wanted grub or
 grub2.  (Maybe because I used Expert Mode?)

I install in Expert-Mode, but the installer  give  me  only  the  choice
between Grub2 and Lilo.

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
Michelle Konzack

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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

Jochen Schulz wrote:
 a hint that this *might* actually be a graphics problem. See this bug
 report:
 
 http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=594967
 
 It looks like the fix didn't make into stable, but you can try setting
 GRUB_TERMINAL=console.

You ARE my hero :D

Unbelievable! GREAT! 

uncommenting GRUB_TERMINAL from /etc/default/grub works.
After uncommenting I executed grub-install followed by update-grub and it 
works without having to patch /boot/grub/grub.cfg


Now the remaining question is: wtf changed grafics settings for last update, as 
I did not changed HW for about half a year.


Great, great - I can live very well without grub grafics, so no problem at all.
So I skip installation of debian 6.0 


kind regards

Gero


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

Michelle Konzack wrote:
 Geronimo wrote:
  There's no choice to use another boot-manager. You have to use grub
  (which  silently is grub2) or you have to use grub2. If grub2 is really
  stil beta - what the hell does it do in debian stable?
 
 This is not right, because you can choose LILO.

AFAIK you don't have this choice from installer, only after installation - and 
if first reboot after installer fails, you don't have any choice!


kind regards

Gero


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello Geronimo,

Am 2011-03-23 09:58:54, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
  I agree. How about a wishlist bug against debian-installer?
 Ok, when I found out, how to do that, I'll do it.

reportbug debian-installer

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
Michelle Konzack

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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

Michelle Konzack wrote:
 Hello Geronimo,
 
 Am 2011-03-23 09:58:54, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:
   I agree. How about a wishlist bug against debian-installer?
  
  Ok, when I found out, how to do that, I'll do it.
 
 reportbug debian-installer

Thanks a lot for that hint.

but see what happens: 
$ reportbug
/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/reportbug/ui/gtk2_ui.py:476: PangoWarning: 
pango_layout_set_width: assertion `layout != NULL' failed
  gtk.main ()
/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/reportbug/ui/gtk2_ui.py:476: PangoWarning: 
pango_layout_get_extents: assertion `layout != NULL' failed
  gtk.main ()
/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/reportbug/ui/gtk2_ui.py:476: PangoWarning: 
pango_layout_get_line_count: assertion `layout != NULL' failed
  gtk.main ()
Gleitkomma-Ausnahme


LOL - beside that, I don't have an mta configured to access internet and don't 
like to do so. So I'll communicate using email (kmail) or iceweasel - no more.


May be, I find a webinterface to use.


kind regards

Gero


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 9:00 PM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:
 On Thu 24 Mar 2011 at 13:20:08 -0400, Tom H wrote:

 You'd have to edit the scripts in order to modify the titles - and
 re-edit them the next time that they are updated through an update of
 grub.

 Aren't the scripts in /etc/grub.d/ conffiles?

dpkg --status ... says that they are. I haven't edited them in a
while and so I can't speak to the conffile status being upheld but it
definitely wasn't in the past because I and others have had changes
over-written.


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Bug in grub-pc results in unbootable system after installation (was: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?)

Geronimo:
 Jochen Schulz wrote:

 a hint that this *might* actually be a graphics problem. See this bug
 report:
 
 http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=594967
 
 It looks like the fix didn't make into stable, but you can try setting
 GRUB_TERMINAL=console.
 
 You ARE my hero :D

All it took was pasting the message from your screen into Google. ;-) I
am glad that we found a solution. Thanks for your persistence, I already
feared you might give up on that one.

BTW, I was wrong about the fix not being part of squeeze: the link above
says the fix should be included in 1.98+20100804-12. But there's another
user (message #154) that says the issue isn't fixed yet. You can simply
send en email to 594967 at bugs.debian.org and try to get Colin Watson's
attention.

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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 1:56 AM, Geronimo geronimo...@arcor.de wrote:
 Tom H wrote:


 - Does grub-probe on squeeze and maverick return the same values?

 Looks like this is true. See attachments.

Yes. Although the after some reboots result of having hd4 correspond
to sda is strange.


 - Can you chainload squeeze's grub from maverick's?

 From maverick the boot drive after update-grub is now hd2

 output from chainload:
        booting a command list
        error: no such partition
        Press any key to continue

 When I edit the chainload-entry and change hd2 to i.e. hd1, the output is as
 follows:
        booting a command list
        error: hd1,msdos2 cannot get C/H/S values
        Press any key to continue

 From the ubuntus grub.cfg both ubuntu and debian are bootable.

May be we should've also used search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set
59c82698-6fcc-4512-a51c-261348d637da rather than set
root='(hd2,msdos2)' just to be sure to be using the correct
partition.

However, I'm not sure that it would've worked. Even though you can
chainload grub2 from grub1 with kernel /boot/grub/core.img, I can't
seem to be able to chainload grub2 from grub2 with linux
/boot/grub/core.img. configfile ... workd (thankfully) but it isn't
quite what I wanted to check... Sorry.


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 7:05 AM, Jochen Schulz
jrsch...@well-adjusted.de wrote:
 Geronimo:

 Rebooting from debian after a grub-install/update-grub, situation is shown by
 picture grub01.png

 This doesn't look *that* bad. It hangs right before showing the menu or
 at least its command line. I googled for welcome to grub! and found
 a hint that this *might* actually be a graphics problem. See this bug
 report:

 http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=594967

 It looks like the fix didn't make into stable, but you can try setting
 GRUB_TERMINAL=console.

It looks like you've found a gem, especially given the external card
and this post by Colin Watson (#54):

One effect of these changes was to load the video_cirrus and video_bochs
modules by default (you can test whether this is the culprit by
commenting them out in grub.cfg).  I've seen a handful of systems that
hang while trying to enumerate the PCI bus in GRUB; it so happens that
those are the only modules that usually trigger GRUB's PCI bus
enumeration in normal circumstances ...

You can also verify this at a lower level by trying 'lspci' at a GRUB
prompt.  If it's the same problem, this will hang.


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 7:49 AM, Michelle Konzack
linux4miche...@tamay-dogan.net wrote:
 Am 2011-03-21 12:40:22, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:

 Of course, it could be that your mobo doesn't like grub2.  Since the
 grub and Debian developers know that, they made a big, fat warning
 when wanting to install grub2, asking if you're sure that you want
 to do it, since grub2 is still in beta, so it might break.

 BUT WHY is grub2 the default for Squeeze?

Because upstream's given up on both lilo (it was rescued in extremis
by Debian) and grub1 (only Fedora's still developing it).


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 7:50 AM, Michelle Konzack
linux4miche...@tamay-dogan.net wrote:
 Am 2011-03-21 19:08:33, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:

 There's no choice to use another boot-manager. You have to use grub (which
 silently is grub2) or you have to use grub2. If grub2 is really stil beta -
 what the hell does it do in debian stable?

 This is not right, because you can choose LILO.

Not in normal install mode.


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Re: Bug in grub-pc results in unbootable system after installation (was: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?)

Hello,

Jochen Schulz wrote:
 Thanks for your persistence,
 I already feared you might give up on that one.

I love debian and for me there's no alternative, so I can't give up!
 
 BTW, I was wrong about the fix not being part of squeeze: the link above
 says the fix should be included in 1.98+20100804-12. But there's another
 user (message #154) that says the issue isn't fixed yet. 

As Tom and you stated, that the update from 6.0 to 6.0.1 did not change grub, 
So the question is not, whether that bug is fixed or not.

The most *important* question is, *which* change caused grub to break - as 
grub worked fine (beside having to patch grub.cfg for hdx) before the 6.0.1 
update.

 You can simply send en email to 594967 at bugs.debian.org and try to get
 Colin Watson's attention.

Should I? - I don't have any information, that's not already part of the bug 
report.

Sorry for not having googled by myself, but sometimes you don't have the right 
idea/search-token ...


kind regards

Gero


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Geronimo geronimo...@arcor.de wrote:
 Michelle Konzack wrote:

     reportbug debian-installer

 Thanks a lot for that hint.

 but see what happens:
 $ reportbug
 /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/reportbug/ui/gtk2_ui.py:476: PangoWarning:
 pango_layout_set_width: assertion `layout != NULL' failed
  gtk.main ()
 /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/reportbug/ui/gtk2_ui.py:476: PangoWarning:
 pango_layout_get_extents: assertion `layout != NULL' failed
  gtk.main ()
 /usr/lib/pymodules/python2.6/reportbug/ui/gtk2_ui.py:476: PangoWarning:
 pango_layout_get_line_count: assertion `layout != NULL' failed
  gtk.main ()
 Gleitkomma-Ausnahme

 LOL - beside that, I don't have an mta configured to access internet and don't
 like to do so. So I'll communicate using email (kmail) or iceweasel - no more.

You don't need an mta.


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

Tom H wrote:
 On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 1:56 AM, Geronimo geronimo...@arcor.de wrote:
  Tom H wrote:
  - Does grub-probe on squeeze and maverick return the same values?
  
  Looks like this is true. See attachments.
 
 Yes. Although the after some reboots result of having hd4 correspond
 to sda is strange.

LOL - that's my every day business :)

Changing device names caused by switching a drive from backplane on sounds 
reasonable to me. But I don't understand changing of drive naming without 
changing active drives.

 May be we should've also used search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set
 59c82698-6fcc-4512-a51c-261348d637da rather than set
 root='(hd2,msdos2)' just to be sure to be using the correct
 partition.

Sorry, but I don't understand that much, that I know, where to put your 
changes, so please tell me the entire section and I'll perform that test.

 Sorry.

No reason for sorry! - Tell my what I should test and I'll do that test.


kind regards

Gero


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

Tom H wrote:
 On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Geronimo geronimo...@arcor.de wrote:
  LOL - beside that, I don't have an mta configured to access internet and
  don't like to do so. So I'll communicate using email (kmail) or
  iceweasel - no more.
 
 You don't need an mta.

I already filed that bugreport using email only.

The template from http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting is missing the entry 
Severity, so my bugreport is not as desired.
May be a list admin can change that?


kind regards

Gero


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

Tom H wrote:
 It looks like you've found a gem, especially given the external card
 and this post by Colin Watson (#54):
 
 One effect of these changes was to load the video_cirrus and video_bochs
 modules by default (you can test whether this is the culprit by
 commenting them out in grub.cfg).  I've seen a handful of systems that
 hang while trying to enumerate the PCI bus in GRUB; it so happens that
 those are the only modules that usually trigger GRUB's PCI bus
 enumeration in normal circumstances ...
 
 You can also verify this at a lower level by trying 'lspci' at a GRUB
 prompt.  If it's the same problem, this will hang.

Just tried to execute 'lspci' from GRUB prompt. Worked fine - no freeze.
... so may be it is another cause, but the same symptom ...


kind regards

Gero


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Geronimo:
 Tom H wrote:

 It looks like you've found a gem, especially given the external card
 and this post by Colin Watson (#54):

I don't think that's related. The issue cannot be resolved by removing
the external card.

 You can also verify this at a lower level by trying 'lspci' at a GRUB
 prompt.  If it's the same problem, this will hang.
 
 Just tried to execute 'lspci' from GRUB prompt. Worked fine - no freeze.
 ... so may be it is another cause, but the same symptom ...

ACK, it's probably another issue. But you may still want to refer to
this bug number in your new report. See here for details about the
format if you don't use reportbug:

http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting

You can probably leave out all the details in this thread. The
interesting points probably are:

- Happens with grub-pc 1.98+20100804-14
- Looks almost like #594967
- Disabling vga mode makes the system bootable again
- lspci from grub's prompt succeeds

I would use at least Severity: important.

J.
-- 
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[Agree]   [Disagree]
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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

Jochen Schulz wrote:
 ACK, it's probably another issue. But you may still want to refer to
 this bug number in your new report. 

Done.


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-25 Thread Klistvud


Dne, 24. 03. 2011 22:12:19 je Mark napisal(a):

So when it's all said and done, it sounds like the safest bet is to  
edit the

file that says in all caps DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE.

LOL


Moral of the story?
If you want to make *absolutely* sure that users *will* try editing a  
file -- any file -- you just need to make it read-only and write DO NOT  
EDIT THIS FILE in it. Hmmm. For my next research project, I shall write  
DO NOT JUMP WITHOUT ATTACHING THE ROPE FIRST on a bungee rope ...


The results are bound to be fascinating.


--
Cheerio,

Klistvud  
http://bufferoverflow.tiddlyspot.com
Certifiable Loonix User #481801  Please reply to the list, not to  
me.



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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-24 Thread Andrei Popescu

On Mi, 23 mar 11, 13:36:30, Mark wrote:
 
  With grub2, if you want to troubleshoot update-grub and the resulting
  /boot/grub/grub.cfg, you have to look at /etc/default/grub,
  /etc/grub.d/*, /usr/lib/grub/grub-mkconfig_lib, and
  /usr/bin/grub-mkconfig. You might not need to do so often (I haven't
  had to do so for my boxes for a very long time) but, if and when you
  do, it borders on silly...
 
 Thanks Tom.  Have you or anyone else been able to change the text displayed
 on the GRUB2 boot menu _without_ editing the /boot/grub/grub.cfg file?
 Maybe the label/text is stored somewhere and I missed it, just curious.

I'm quite sure they are not stored, but regenerated on each 
'update-grub'. It might be that the names are influenced by some 
variable that can be set in /etc/default/grub, but from my experience 
the documentation needs improving in this area. AFAICT the only 
documentation we have now is the source as shell scripts.

Regards,
Andrei
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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-24 Thread Geronimo

Hello,

Jochen Schulz wrote:
 Geronimo:
  As every of my drives had an installed grub in mbr,
 
 Ok, I forgot that. (BTW, I find this setup really strange, but if it
 worked in the past with grub2 it should of course continue to work.)

LOL - let me clarify, that this setup has not been created by intention. 
I tried to change root to another SSD, but I never installed grub to the other 
6 drives. 

It happened by accident, when grub-install /dev/sda was executed, but /dev/sda 
is not the expected drive, but mapped by who ever to another drive, that 
should be /dev/sdg or so.

  What's unclear from (my post from 06:59:49 today):
  1.) A fresh installation from debian 6.0 netinst CD results in an
  unbootable system, even using a single partition installation target.
 
 Ok, that's great! I would say that makes you eligible to file a bug
 report against d-i. :) Can you diff the grub.cfg against the one
 generated by 6.0?

How should I do that?

If stable repos are updated to 6.0.1 then installing a fresh system using 6.0 
netinst CD will end up by a fresh installed 6.0.1 system.

I don't have the possibility to diff agains 6.0 - the 6.0 systems I continue to 
have, are quite different HW and for so not comparable.

So since update to 6.0.1 every installation on my desktop system results in an 
unusable/broken system.

 Can you still make the system bootable again just by removing the extra
 SATA controller?
 Does it suffice to remove the disks from that
 controller? Is there anything else you can do with the hardware or the
 BIOS to make it bootable again?

I'll check that, on my next sparetime timeslot.


kind regards

Gero


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-24 Thread Geronimo

Hello,

Tom H wrote:
 Thanks for the diff but it made me go cros-eyed. :)

Same happened to me :)
 
 Take a look at them below. Your squeeze grub.cfg sets root as sdg2
 then sde2 through 00_linux, as sdg2 through 05_debian_theme, and sde2
 through 10_linux.
 
 I don't have 05_debian_theme on my boxes (deleted!) but looking
 quickly at 10_linux, the first set root... comes from a grub-probe
 of the directory corresponding to $GRUB_THEME.

I don't need debian_theme, guess it came from christmas addons. I don't care 
about the look of grub - I just want to bring up the system to start work.

To complete confusion, I guess, that debian_theme tries to get some files from 
/usr/share/... so if /usr is another drive (like in my case), it has to have a 
different root. 
Here again the (hdX, msdosY) will point to anything, but the right partition.

Currently I'm busy with backup/restore, so can't reboot system.
May be today evening, or tomorrow ...


kind regards

Gero


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-24 Thread Jochen Schulz

Geronimo:
 Jochen Schulz wrote:
 Geronimo:

 As every of my drives had an installed grub in mbr,
 
 Ok, I forgot that. (BTW, I find this setup really strange, but if it
 worked in the past with grub2 it should of course continue to work.)
 
 LOL - let me clarify, that this setup has not been created by intention. 
 I tried to change root to another SSD, but I never installed grub to the 
 other 
 6 drives. 

Then I would try to rule out that the system boots from the wrong MBR,
if you didn't already overwrite it.

 1.) A fresh installation from debian 6.0 netinst CD results in an
 unbootable system, even using a single partition installation target.
 
 Ok, that's great! I would say that makes you eligible to file a bug
 report against d-i. :) Can you diff the grub.cfg against the one
 generated by 6.0?
 
 How should I do that?

It should be possible to use CD/DVD1 of the 6.0.0 installer and prevent
upgrades from being installed. The easiest way is probably to unplug the
network cable during installation.

J.
-- 
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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-24 Thread Brian

On Wed 23 Mar 2011 at 13:36:30 -0700, Mark wrote:

 Thanks Tom.  Have you or anyone else been able to change the text displayed
 on the GRUB2 boot menu _without_ editing the /boot/grub/grub.cfg file?
 Maybe the label/text is stored somewhere and I missed it, just curious.

I think you would be looking at the 10_linux file in /etc/grub.d at the
very least. After 'linux_entry ()' there are 'title=' lines.

An alternative might be to make 10_linux (and possibly 30_os-prober)
non-executable and use 40_custom. Not tested. There may be unwanted
downsides to doing this.


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-24 Thread Tom H

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 4:36 PM, Mark mamar...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:

 With grub2, if you want to troubleshoot update-grub and the resulting
 /boot/grub/grub.cfg, you have to look at /etc/default/grub,
 /etc/grub.d/*, /usr/lib/grub/grub-mkconfig_lib, and
 /usr/bin/grub-mkconfig.

 Thanks Tom.  Have you or anyone else been able to change the text displayed
 on the GRUB2 boot menu _without_ editing the /boot/grub/grub.cfg file?
 Maybe the label/text is stored somewhere and I missed it, just curious.

Correction: it's /usr/sbin/grub-mkconfig not /usr/bin/grub-mkconfig.

The boot menu titles are generated through the scripts in
/etc/grub.d/ when update-grub is run.

You'd have to edit the scripts in order to modify the titles - and
re-edit them the next time that they are updated through an update of
grub.


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-24 Thread Tom H

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 4:00 AM, Geronimo geronimo...@arcor.de wrote:
 Tom H wrote:

 I don't have 05_debian_theme on my boxes (deleted!) but looking
 quickly at 10_linux, the first set root... comes from a grub-probe
 of the directory corresponding to $GRUB_THEME.

 I don't need debian_theme, guess it came from christmas addons. I don't care
 about the look of grub - I just want to bring up the system to start work.

 To complete confusion, I guess, that debian_theme tries to get some files from
 /usr/share/... so if /usr is another drive (like in my case), it has to have a
 different root.

I don't know from where GRUB_THEME comes but you can set it to null in
/etc/default/grub (GRUB_THEME=), re-generate grub.cfg, and check
whether any set root points to /usr and whether you can boot with
that grub.cfg.


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-24 Thread Tom H

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 6:45 AM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:
 On Wed 23 Mar 2011 at 13:36:30 -0700, Mark wrote:

 Thanks Tom.  Have you or anyone else been able to change the text displayed
 on the GRUB2 boot menu _without_ editing the /boot/grub/grub.cfg file?
 Maybe the label/text is stored somewhere and I missed it, just curious.

 I think you would be looking at the 10_linux file in /etc/grub.d at the
 very least. After 'linux_entry ()' there are 'title=' lines.

 An alternative might be to make 10_linux (and possibly 30_os-prober)
 non-executable and use 40_custom. Not tested. There may be unwanted
 downsides to doing this.

The downside's that you then you'd have to edit 40_custom and run
update-grub in order to add any newly installed kernel to grub.cfg.


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-24 Thread Chris Bannister

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 04:15:34PM +0100, Jochen Schulz wrote:
 I'd say Grub2 and/or your mainboard (unlikely) has a problem that is in
 no way related to your upgrade to 6.0.1 (but to stable in general). If I
 were you, I would try to get support from the grub people directly.

The mainboard doesn't require firmware, does it? (Just a thought)

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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-24 Thread Mark

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 6:45 AM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:
  On Wed 23 Mar 2011 at 13:36:30 -0700, Mark wrote:
 
  Thanks Tom.  Have you or anyone else been able to change the text
 displayed
  on the GRUB2 boot menu _without_ editing the /boot/grub/grub.cfg file?
  Maybe the label/text is stored somewhere and I missed it, just curious.
 
  I think you would be looking at the 10_linux file in /etc/grub.d at the
  very least. After 'linux_entry ()' there are 'title=' lines.
 
  An alternative might be to make 10_linux (and possibly 30_os-prober)
  non-executable and use 40_custom. Not tested. There may be unwanted
  downsides to doing this.

 The downside's that you then you'd have to edit 40_custom and run
 update-grub in order to add any newly installed kernel to grub.cfg.


So when it's all said and done, it sounds like the safest bet is to edit the
file that says in all caps DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE.

LOL

Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-24 Thread Brian

On Thu 24 Mar 2011 at 13:20:08 -0400, Tom H wrote:

 You'd have to edit the scripts in order to modify the titles - and
 re-edit them the next time that they are updated through an update of
 grub.

Aren't the scripts in /etc/grub.d/ conffiles?


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-24 Thread Geronimo

Hello,

Tom H wrote:
 - Does grub-probe on squeeze and maverick return the same values?

Looks like this is true. See attachments.
 
 - Can you chainload squeeze's grub from maverick's?

From maverick the boot drive after update-grub is now hd2

output from chainload:
booting a command list
error: no such partition
Press any key to continue

When I edit the chainload-entry and change hd2 to i.e. hd1, the output is as 
follows:
booting a command list
error: hd1,msdos2 cannot get C/H/S values
Press any key to continue

From the ubuntus grub.cfg both ubuntu and debian are bootable.


kind regards

Gero
### PROBE OF / ###
ext2
7ce6540f-5ffe-445d-9bbf-d41652854700
/dev/sde1
(hd4,msdos1)

### PROBE OF /boot ###
ext2
59c82698-6fcc-4512-a51c-261348d637da
/dev/sde2
(hd4,msdos2)

### PROBE OF /dev/disk/by-id/scsi-SATA_INTEL_SSDSA2M04CVGB0061021D040GGN-part1 
###
ext2
7ce6540f-5ffe-445d-9bbf-d41652854700
/dev/disk/by-id/scsi-SATA_INTEL_SSDSA2M04CVGB0061021D040GGN-part1
(hd4,msdos1)

### PROBE OF /dev/disk/by-id/scsi-SATA_INTEL_SSDSA2M04CVGB0061021D040GGN-part2 
###
ext2
59c82698-6fcc-4512-a51c-261348d637da
/dev/disk/by-id/scsi-SATA_INTEL_SSDSA2M04CVGB0061021D040GGN-part2
(hd4,msdos2)


=== 
  
---   after some reboots
=== 
  
### PROBE OF / ###
ext2
7ce6540f-5ffe-445d-9bbf-d41652854700
/dev/sda1
(hd4,msdos1)

### PROBE OF /boot ###
ext2
59c82698-6fcc-4512-a51c-261348d637da
/dev/sda2
(hd4,msdos2)

### PROBE OF /dev/disk/by-id/scsi-SATA_INTEL_SSDSA2M04CVGB0061021D040GGN-part1 
###
ext2
7ce6540f-5ffe-445d-9bbf-d41652854700
/dev/disk/by-id/scsi-SATA_INTEL_SSDSA2M04CVGB0061021D040GGN-part1
(hd4,msdos1)

### PROBE OF /dev/disk/by-id/scsi-SATA_INTEL_SSDSA2M04CVGB0061021D040GGN-part2 
###
ext2
59c82698-6fcc-4512-a51c-261348d637da
/dev/disk/by-id/scsi-SATA_INTEL_SSDSA2M04CVGB0061021D040GGN-part2
(hd4,msdos2)

### PROBE OF /mnt/squeeze ###
ext2
7ce6540f-5ffe-445d-9bbf-d41652854700
/dev/sdc1
(hd2,msdos1)

### PROBE OF /mnt/squeeze/boot ###
ext2
59c82698-6fcc-4512-a51c-261348d637da
/dev/sdc2
(hd2,msdos2)

### PROBE OF /dev/disk/by-id/scsi-SATA_INTEL_SSDSA2M04CVGB0061021D040GGN-part1 
###
ext2
7ce6540f-5ffe-445d-9bbf-d41652854700
/dev/disk/by-id/scsi-SATA_INTEL_SSDSA2M04CVGB0061021D040GGN-part1
(hd2,msdos1)

### PROBE OF /dev/disk/by-id/scsi-SATA_INTEL_SSDSA2M04CVGB0061021D040GGN-part2 
###
ext2
59c82698-6fcc-4512-a51c-261348d637da
/dev/disk/by-id/scsi-SATA_INTEL_SSDSA2M04CVGB0061021D040GGN-part2
(hd2,msdos2)

#
# DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE
#
# It is automatically generated by grub-mkconfig using templates
# from /etc/grub.d and settings from /etc/default/grub
#

### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/00_header ###
if [ -s $prefix/grubenv ]; then
  set have_grubenv=true
  load_env
fi
set default=0
if [ ${prev_saved_entry} ]; then
  set saved_entry=${prev_saved_entry}
  save_env saved_entry
  set prev_saved_entry=
  save_env prev_saved_entry
  set boot_once=true
fi

function savedefault {
  if [ -z ${boot_once} ]; then
saved_entry=${chosen}
save_env saved_entry
  fi
}

function recordfail {
  set recordfail=1
  if [ -n ${have_grubenv} ]; then if [ -z ${boot_once} ]; then save_env 
recordfail; fi; fi
}

function load_video {
  insmod vbe
  insmod vga
}

insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd2,msdos3)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set b9ad85b7-d8b0-42f9-8c3a-c09a435cbe26
if loadfont /usr/share/grub/unicode.pf2 ; then
  set gfxmode=640x480
  load_video
  insmod gfxterm
fi
terminal_output gfxterm
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd2,msdos3)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set b9ad85b7-d8b0-42f9-8c3a-c09a435cbe26
set locale_dir=($root)/boot/grub/locale
set lang=de
insmod gettext
if [ ${recordfail} = 1 ]; then
  set timeout=-1
else
  set timeout=10
fi
### END /etc/grub.d/00_header ###

### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme ###
set menu_color_normal=white/black
set menu_color_highlight=black/light-gray
### END /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme ###

### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/10_linux ###
menuentry 'Ubuntu, with Linux 2.6.35-22-generic' --class ubuntu --class 
gnu-linux --class gnu --class os {
recordfail
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd2,msdos3)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set b9ad85b7-d8b0-42f9-8c3a-c09a435cbe26
linux   /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.35-22-generic 
root=UUID=b9ad85b7-d8b0-42f9-8c3a-c09a435cbe26 ro   quiet splash
initrd  /boot/initrd.img-2.6.35-22-generic
}
menuentry 'Ubuntu, with Linux 2.6.35-22-generic (recovery mode)' --class ubuntu 
--class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os {
recordfail
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='(hd2,msdos3)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set b9ad85b7-d8b0-42f9-8c3a-c09a435cbe26
echo'Loading Linux 2.6.35-22-generic ...'
linux   /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.35-22-generic

Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
 Now, moving between 6.0.0 and 6.0.1 shouldn't have been a problem, but I
 suspect you actually would have had issues rebooting your 6.0.0 system even
 without the 6.0.1 updates, since you didn't have your fstab in order.

Grub can't be wrong, cause it is working in your system. 
So, the only conclusion is: my fstab must be wrong.

Hm ...

I think, that's the same wrong reduction of facts, than my saying: grub is 
wrong.

So let me state, debian 6.0 was working fine til the last update.

On a complex system (yes, for me, linux is quite a complex system) the truth 
may be somewhat different. May be, we both are wrong.

So I did some researches with my system constellation (all 8 drives active):

1.) A fresh installation from debian 6.0 netinst CD results in an unbootable 
system, even using a single partition installation target.

2.) following the advices of:
grub-mkdevicemap
grub-install /dev/disk/by-id/ata-INTEL_SSDSA2M040G2GC_CVGB0061021D040GGN
update-grub
 results in an unbootable system

3.) at first sight it looks like ubuntu 10.10 is using the same grub variant, 
but a closer look shows, that on ubuntu there's no /boot/device.map

4.) booting the debian 6.0 netinst CD in rescue64 mode and chrooting the 
ubuntu installation, a grub-install /dev/sde brings my system back into play

Don't take me wrong! I'm no friend of ubuntu and changing to ubuntu is no 
acceptable solution for me.
But - if having an unused ubuntu installation is the only solution to get a 
bootable system - of cause, I will use it. 

Well, I stil believe, that some of the last update was not good enuf for 
debian stable ...


kind regards

Gero


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-23 Thread Andrei Popescu

On Mi, 23 mar 11, 07:30:48, Geronimo wrote:
 Hello,
 
 Andrei Popescu wrote:
  On Lu, 21 mar 11, 20:28:51, Geronimo wrote:
   Ok, the latter is attached (well - just half of the disks), the former
   does not exists any more, cause I purged grub2
  
  Too bad, now we can't investigate what was wrong. Just for the archives,
  here's an excerpt from a working grub.cfg from a fresh squeeze install:
 
 Ok, I attached a bunch of info files from my current grub2 setup, which is 
 not 
 working.
 
 I additionally added the grub.cfg from ubuntu, which is working.
 
Ok, I'll look into them later.

 Hope you can extract the info that leads to the bug.
 
 ---
 
 I have a whish to the debian istaller disk. Find attached an image of the 
 current menue, where one should select a root partition in rescue mode.
 
 This menue is quite useless, if you have an external controller, as device 
 names may change on every boot.
 
 What about extending the menue, that it shows the same info as cat 
 /proc/partitions ?
 The device name together with size information is good to identify the right 
 partion.
 Adding the label of a partition would be extraordinary :)

I agree. How about a wishlist bug against debian-installer?

Regards,
Andrei
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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 1:59 AM, Geronimo geronimo...@arcor.de wrote:
 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

 Now, moving between 6.0.0 and 6.0.1 shouldn't have been a problem, but I
 suspect you actually would have had issues rebooting your 6.0.0 system even
 without the 6.0.1 updates, since you didn't have your fstab in order.

 Grub can't be wrong, cause it is working in your system.
 So, the only conclusion is: my fstab must be wrong.

 I think, that's the same wrong reduction of facts, than my saying: grub is
 wrong.

 So let me state, debian 6.0 was working fine til the last update.

 On a complex system (yes, for me, linux is quite a complex system) the truth
 may be somewhat different. May be, we both are wrong.

 So I did some researches with my system constellation (all 8 drives active):

 1.) A fresh installation from debian 6.0 netinst CD results in an unbootable
 system, even using a single partition installation target.

 2.) following the advices of:
        grub-mkdevicemap
        grub-install 
 /dev/disk/by-id/ata-INTEL_SSDSA2M040G2GC_CVGB0061021D040GGN
        update-grub
  results in an unbootable system

 3.) at first sight it looks like ubuntu 10.10 is using the same grub variant,
 but a closer look shows, that on ubuntu there's no /boot/device.map

 4.) booting the debian 6.0 netinst CD in rescue64 mode and chrooting the
 ubuntu installation, a grub-install /dev/sde brings my system back into play

 Well, I stil believe, that some of the last update was not good enuf for
 debian stable ...

- grub wasn't updated for 6.0.1. Its last squeeze update was on 17
January, pre-6.0 release (6 February IIRC). So, strictly speaking, it
isn't grub that's broken grub.

- I've never understood the device.map difference between Debian and
Ubuntu because the maintainers seem to be the same. That file's only
used at install time so, perhaps, it's created and deleted on Ubuntu
in some kind of (strange) cleanup effort.

-  Do the grub.cfg entries for squeeze in squeeze and maverick match
for the insmods, the grub root, and the system root?

- Does grub-probe on squeeze and maverick return the same values?

On squeeze, for example with:

for directory in / /boot; do echo ### PROBE OF $directory ###; for
target in fs fs_uuid device drive abstraction; do /usr/sbin/grub-probe
--target $target $directory; done ; done

for systemdevice in /dev/root_partition /dev/boot_partition; do echo
### PROBE OF $systemdevice ###; for target in fs fs_uuid device
drive abstraction; do /usr/sbin/grub-probe --target $target --device
$systemdevice; done ; done

On maverick, for example with:

for directory in /mnt/squeeze /mnt/squeeze/boot; do echo ### PROBE OF
$directory ###; for target in fs fs_uuid device drive abstraction; do
/usr/sbin/grub-probe --target $target $directory; done ; done

for systemdevice in /dev/squeeze_root_partition
/dev/squeeze_boot_partition; do echo ### PROBE OF $systemdevice ###;
for target in fs fs_uuid device drive abstraction; do
/usr/sbin/grub-probe --target $target --device $systemdevice; done ;
done

- Can you chainload squeeze's grub from maverick's?

I haven't set up a chainload or used 40_custom in a *long* time but I
think that the following should create the right menu entry.

$ vi /boot/grub.d/40_custom
#!/bin/sh
cat  EOF
menuentry chainload squeeze from maverick {
set root=(hdX,Y)  ## using X and Y for /mnt/squeeze/boot
linux /grub/core.img ## or /boot/grub/core.img if / and /boot aren't
different partitions
}
EOF
$ update-grub


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

Andrei Popescu wrote:
 On Mi, 23 mar 11, 07:30:48, Geronimo wrote:
  I have a whish to the debian istaller disk. Find attached an image of the
  current menue, where one should select a root partition in rescue mode.
  
  This menue is quite useless, if you have an external controller, as
  device names may change on every boot.
  
  What about extending the menue, that it shows the same info as cat
  /proc/partitions ?
  The device name together with size information is good to identify the
  right partion.
  Adding the label of a partition would be extraordinary :)
 
 I agree. How about a wishlist bug against debian-installer?

Ok, when I found out, how to do that, I'll do it.


kind regards

Gero


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 2:30 AM, Geronimo geronimo...@arcor.de wrote:
 Andrei Popescu wrote:

 Too bad, now we can't investigate what was wrong. Just for the archives,
 here's an excerpt from a working grub.cfg from a fresh squeeze install:

 Ok, I attached a bunch of info files from my current grub2 setup, which is not
 working.

 I additionally added the grub.cfg from ubuntu, which is working.

 Hope you can extract the info that leads to the bug.

I looked quickly at the squeeze and maverick grub.cfg's and the grub
root and system root UUID entries are the same so that shouldn't be
the problem.

At what point does booting from squeeze's grub does the boot process
fail? And what's the error (if any)?

(I sent an email earlier and proposed a 40_custom change. You might
need to add insmod part_msdos and insmod ext2 to what I've posted.
Sorry.)


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

Tom H wrote:
 - grub wasn't updated for 6.0.1. Its last squeeze update was on 17
 January, pre-6.0 release (6 February IIRC). So, strictly speaking, it
 isn't grub that's broken grub.

Ok, then I apologize everything I wrote about grub.
 
 -  Do the grub.cfg entries for squeeze in squeeze and maverick match
 for the insmods, the grub root, and the system root?

I attached an archive with diffs of complete grub.cfg and just the menue 
entries.
 
 - Does grub-probe on squeeze and maverick return the same values?

I'll try to workout all steps.


kind regards

Gero


grub-diffs.tar.bz2
Description: application/bzip-compressed-tar

Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

Tom H wrote:
 At what point does booting from squeeze's grub does the boot process
 fail? And what's the error (if any)?

Grub fails after writing Grub black on white, before showing the menue.
I don't know how much code fits into the mbr and I don't know, whether grub is 
stil busy or whether the mbr-jump ended in nirvana.

 And what's the error (if any)?

No error-message at all.


kind regads

Gero


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

Tom H wrote:
 - Does grub-probe on squeeze and maverick return the same values?

Can you please verify the script checkSystem.sh, that I got u right?
Especially the ubuntu / chainload part?

Should I replace X and Y from the line:
set root=(hdX,Y)  ## using X and Y for /mnt/squeeze/boot
or are that values replaced by any of grubs scripts?

Shouldn't the path of 40_custom be /etc/grub.d?
Neither debian, nor ubuntu has a /boot/grub.d directory.


kind regards

Gero



### PROBE OF / ###
ext2
7ce6540f-5ffe-445d-9bbf-d41652854700
/dev/sde1
(hd4,msdos1)

### PROBE OF /boot ###
ext2
59c82698-6fcc-4512-a51c-261348d637da
/dev/sde2
(hd4,msdos2)

### PROBE OF /dev/disk/by-id/scsi-SATA_INTEL_SSDSA2M04CVGB0061021D040GGN-part1 
###
ext2
7ce6540f-5ffe-445d-9bbf-d41652854700
/dev/disk/by-id/scsi-SATA_INTEL_SSDSA2M04CVGB0061021D040GGN-part1
(hd4,msdos1)

### PROBE OF /dev/disk/by-id/scsi-SATA_INTEL_SSDSA2M04CVGB0061021D040GGN-part2 
###
ext2
59c82698-6fcc-4512-a51c-261348d637da
/dev/disk/by-id/scsi-SATA_INTEL_SSDSA2M04CVGB0061021D040GGN-part2
(hd4,msdos2)



checkSystem.sh
Description: application/shellscript

Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

Tom H wrote:
 - grub wasn't updated for 6.0.1. Its last squeeze update was on 17
 January, pre-6.0 release (6 February IIRC). So, strictly speaking, it
 isn't grub that's broken grub.

I attached the hex-view of mbr written by ubuntu and mbr written by debian. 
May be it can help finding a track to the problem.


kind regards

Gero
0x: eb 63 90 10 8e d0 bc 00 b0 b8 00 00 8e d8 8e c0 fb be 00 7c bf 00 06 b9 00 02 f3 a4 ea 21 06 00
0x0020: 00 be be 07 38 04 75 0b 83 c6 10 81 fe fe 07 75 f3 eb 16 b4 02 b0 01 bb 00 7c b2 80 8a 74 03 02
0x0040: ff 00 00 20 01 00 00 00 00 02 fa 90 90 f6 c2 80 75 02 b2 80 ea 59 7c 00 00 31 00 80 01 00 00 00
0x0060: 00 00 00 00 ff fa eb 07 f6 c2 80 75 02 b2 80 ea 74 7c 00 00 31 c0 8e d8 8e d0 bc 00 20 fb a0 64
0x0080: 7c 3c ff 74 02 88 c2 52 be 80 7d e8 1c 01 be 05 7c f6 c2 80 74 48 b4 41 bb aa 55 cd 13 5a 52 72
0x00a0: 3d 81 fb 55 aa 75 37 83 e1 01 74 32 31 c0 89 44 04 40 88 44 ff 89 44 02 c7 04 10 00 66 8b 1e 5c
0x00c0: 7c 66 89 5c 08 66 8b 1e 60 7c 66 89 5c 0c c7 44 06 00 70 b4 42 cd 13 72 05 bb 00 70 eb 76 b4 08
0x00e0: cd 13 73 0d f6 c2 80 0f 84 d8 00 be 8b 7d e9 82 00 66 0f b6 c6 88 64 ff 40 66 89 44 04 0f b6 d1
0x0100: c1 e2 02 88 e8 88 f4 40 89 44 08 0f b6 c2 c0 e8 02 66 89 04 66 a1 60 7c 66 09 c0 75 4e 66 a1 5c
0x0120: 7c 66 31 d2 66 f7 34 88 d1 31 d2 66 f7 74 04 3b 44 08 7d 37 fe c1 88 c5 30 c0 c1 e8 02 08 c1 88
0x0140: d0 5a 88 c6 bb 00 70 8e c3 31 db b8 01 02 cd 13 72 1e 8c c3 60 1e b9 00 01 8e db 31 f6 bf 00 80
0x0160: 8e c6 fc f3 a5 1f 61 ff 26 5a 7c be 86 7d eb 03 be 95 7d e8 34 00 be 9a 7d e8 2e 00 cd 18 eb fe
0x0180: 47 52 55 42 20 00 47 65 6f 6d 00 48 61 72 64 20 44 69 73 6b 00 52 65 61 64 00 20 45 72 72 6f 72
0x01a0: 0d 0a 00 bb 01 00 b4 0e cd 10 ac 3c 00 75 f4 c3 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ac 99 05 00 00 00 00 01
0x01c0: 01 00 83 fe ff ff 3f 00 00 00 f5 48 80 02 80 fe ff ff 83 fe ff ff 00 50 80 02 00 e8 0b 00 00 fe
0x01e0: ff ff 83 fe ff ff 00 38 8c 02 00 78 1c 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 55 aa
0x: eb 63 90 10 8e d0 bc 00 b0 b8 00 00 8e d8 8e c0 fb be 00 7c bf 00 06 b9 00 02 f3 a4 ea 21 06 00
0x0020: 00 be be 07 38 04 75 0b 83 c6 10 81 fe fe 07 75 f3 eb 16 b4 02 b0 01 bb 00 7c b2 80 8a 74 03 02
0x0040: ff 00 00 20 01 00 00 00 00 02 fa 90 90 f6 c2 80 75 02 b2 80 ea 59 7c 00 00 31 00 80 01 00 00 00
0x0060: 00 00 00 00 ff fa 90 90 f6 c2 80 75 02 b2 80 ea 74 7c 00 00 31 c0 8e d8 8e d0 bc 00 20 fb a0 64
0x0080: 7c 3c ff 74 02 88 c2 52 bb 17 04 80 27 03 74 06 be 88 7d e8 1c 01 be 05 7c f6 c2 80 74 48 b4 41
0x00a0: bb aa 55 cd 13 5a 52 72 3d 81 fb 55 aa 75 37 83 e1 01 74 32 31 c0 89 44 04 40 88 44 ff 89 44 02
0x00c0: c7 04 10 00 66 8b 1e 5c 7c 66 89 5c 08 66 8b 1e 60 7c 66 89 5c 0c c7 44 06 00 70 b4 42 cd 13 72
0x00e0: 05 bb 00 70 eb 76 b4 08 cd 13 73 0d f6 c2 80 0f 84 d0 00 be 93 7d e9 82 00 66 0f b6 c6 88 64 ff
0x0100: 40 66 89 44 04 0f b6 d1 c1 e2 02 88 e8 88 f4 40 89 44 08 0f b6 c2 c0 e8 02 66 89 04 66 a1 60 7c
0x0120: 66 09 c0 75 4e 66 a1 5c 7c 66 31 d2 66 f7 34 88 d1 31 d2 66 f7 74 04 3b 44 08 7d 37 fe c1 88 c5
0x0140: 30 c0 c1 e8 02 08 c1 88 d0 5a 88 c6 bb 00 70 8e c3 31 db b8 01 02 cd 13 72 1e 8c c3 60 1e b9 00
0x0160: 01 8e db 31 f6 bf 00 80 8e c6 fc f3 a5 1f 61 ff 26 5a 7c be 8e 7d eb 03 be 9d 7d e8 34 00 be a2
0x0180: 7d e8 2e 00 cd 18 eb fe 47 52 55 42 20 00 47 65 6f 6d 00 48 61 72 64 20 44 69 73 6b 00 52 65 61
0x01a0: 64 00 20 45 72 72 6f 72 0d 0a 00 bb 01 00 b4 0e cd 10 ac 3c 00 75 f4 c3 ac 99 05 00 00 00 00 01
0x01c0: 01 00 83 fe ff ff 3f 00 00 00 f5 48 80 02 80 fe ff ff 83 fe ff ff 00 50 80 02 00 e8 0b 00 00 fe
0x01e0: ff ff 83 fe ff ff 00 38 8c 02 00 78 1c 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 55 aa

Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-23 Thread briand

On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 10:14:19 +0100
Geronimo geronimo...@arcor.de wrote:

 Hello,
 
 Tom H wrote:
  - grub wasn't updated for 6.0.1. Its last squeeze update was on 17
  January, pre-6.0 release (6 February IIRC). So, strictly speaking,
  it isn't grub that's broken grub.
 
 Ok, then I apologize everything I wrote about grub.
  

don't apologize.  a  lot of people have had trouble with grub.  grub
broke my system and to this day cannot be installed successfully, and I
have exactly one disk drive.

then again, it worked out-of-the-box on both my other systems including
a laptop...

Brian


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-23 Thread Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.

On 2011-03-23 00:59:49 Geronimo wrote:
Hello,

Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
 Now, moving between 6.0.0 and 6.0.1 shouldn't have been a problem, but I
 suspect you actually would have had issues rebooting your 6.0.0 system
 even without the 6.0.1 updates, since you didn't have your fstab in
 order.

Grub can't be wrong, cause it is working in your system.

I didn't say that.  Grub2 barely works on my system. :P

On a complex system (yes, for me, linux is quite a complex system) the truth
may be somewhat different. May be, we both are wrong.

How complex is your set up?  I'm using mdadm RAID 1 for /boot and GRUB mbr, 
mdadm RAID 1 + mdadm RAID 5 inside a LVM2 volume group that provides separate 
LVs for /, /usr, /usr/local, /opt, /srv, /var, /var/cache, /var/tmp, and /home 
plus /tmp on tmpfs.

Maybe we both a wrong is probably the most likely case. :(
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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
 On 2011-03-23 00:59:49 Geronimo wrote:
 Hello,
 
 Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
  Now, moving between 6.0.0 and 6.0.1 shouldn't have been a problem, but I
  suspect you actually would have had issues rebooting your 6.0.0 system
  even without the 6.0.1 updates, since you didn't have your fstab in
  order.
 
 Grub can't be wrong, cause it is working in your system.
 
 I didn't say that.  

I know. It was kind of provacative black/white conclusion
Don't take me too serious!

 On a complex system (yes, for me, linux is quite a complex system) the
 truth may be somewhat different. May be, we both are wrong.
 
 How complex is your set up?  I'm using mdadm RAID 1 for /boot and GRUB
 mbr, mdadm RAID 1 + mdadm RAID 5 inside a LVM2 volume group that provides
 separate LVs for /, /usr, /usr/local, /opt, /srv, /var, /var/cache,
 /var/tmp, and /home plus /tmp on tmpfs.

I use raid on my servers only, which I did not update to 6.0.1 - and I won't 
do that, til the bug has been found and eliminated.

On my desktop system, fstab has 40 active entries.

 Maybe we both a wrong is probably the most likely case. :(

:D

As Tom stated, grub has not been updated, so the only remaining possibility 
is, that a kernel change makes grub fail ...

So I took a closer look to dpkg.log and the kernel has been changed.
I did not find a log-entry for execution of update-grub, but I'm quite sure, 
that this has been run (isn't this true for every kernel change?).

I remember old days, where kernel had a parameter like boot from externals 
first. As today it's most probabely, that internal controllers (from mainbord) 
are faster than external controllers, an option like internal controller 
always is first would be quite a good option.

May be, that UUID and Label relaxes harddisk handling, but surely there's stil 
a lot of software around, that uses /dev/sdxx, or like grub (hd#, partition#).
It's quite annoying, booting from debian installer in rescue mode and at the 
menue, where a root partition has to be choosen, you have to select i.e. 
/dev/sda1 - and after starting a shell into that root partition, the device 
suddenly is /dev/sde1 - and mount, cat /proc/partition and df -T all 
show different device names for the same partition.


kind regards

Gero


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

bri...@aracnet.com wrote:
 Geronimo geronimo...@arcor.de wrote:
  Tom H wrote:
   - grub wasn't updated for 6.0.1. Its last squeeze update was on 17
   January, pre-6.0 release (6 February IIRC). So, strictly speaking,
   it isn't grub that's broken grub.
  
  Ok, then I apologize everything I wrote about grub.
 
 don't apologize.  a  lot of people have had trouble with grub. 

For me its a debian QA issue.

grub may have bugs, as well as linux kernel - and of cause, each bug may break 
a system or lead to fresh installation, which does not work.
That's no problem - if it happens at sid or testing.

... but for me, its completely unacceptable having this happen to debian 
stable.

No other linux distribution has that QA-level of debian, so it may happen on 
every other linux too.

Debian stable is a synonym for really good (and unreached by others) QA - and 
this has been broken now.


kind regards

Gero 


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-23 Thread Jochen Schulz

Geronimo:
 Jochen Schulz wrote:
 
 - Which disks are connected to which controller?
 
 As told above, the system disks are attached to the main board. The system 
 disks are the three SSDs and a WD VelociRaptor (sdb) 

Ok, so to sum up: You have trouble booting from disks connected to your
internal SATA controller, but only when another controller (presumably
with disks attached to it) is in the system. AFAICS, we can rule out the
kernel as the cuplrit completely, as grub doesn't even get that far.

I'd say Grub2 and/or your mainboard (unlikely) has a problem that is in
no way related to your upgrade to 6.0.1 (but to stable in general). If I
were you, I would try to get support from the grub people directly.

 - Have you tried shuffling your disks around? Does the system respond
   differently depending on the controller for / or /boot?
 
 The system shuffles the disks around when I switch a disk from backplane 
 on/off 
 or enter a USB-stick, so yes - I'm very used to reorder disks at BIOS.

What I meant was to physically attach disks to different ports.

 When the wrong disk is first, system start is not possible.

Meaning the BIOS doesn't find a boot loader?

 Well, I am not too proficient in these things either. I throw my
 problems at Google like everyone else. :) But installing a new system on
 top of an old one wasn't a good idea when I still used Windows 95 (good
 riddance) and it still isn't a good idea today. /usr may contain
 binaries which the system doesn't know about and thus don't receive
 security updates. And /var contains system-specific data like dpkg's
 database that you don't want to re-use on a new installation.
 
 So how can I recover a broken system?

I wouldn't call a new installation a recovery. For a new installation,
you backup your data, install to new filesystems and restore your
backup.  Recovery procedures obviously vary with the actual problem you
need to solve.

 But anyway: if you have a reliable way of crashing the installer, use
 reportbug (pseudo-package: debian-installer) to make the d-i team aware
 of the problem. 
 
 Thanks for that hint.
 I'll try to remember, when I have my next sparetime.

Sorry for stressing that again, but reporting problems here will not
get the bug fixed. Ever.

I am sorry that I only ask question that apparently lead you nowhere. I
am just stabbing in the dark and I am afraid we will never get to the
source of the problem unless you start from scratch and document every
step you do in detail.

J.
-- 
I throw away plastics and think about the discoveries of future
archeologists.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

Jochen Schulz wrote:
 AFAICS, we can rule out the kernel as the cuplrit completely, as grub
 doesn't even get that far.

VETO - after reboot, you might be right, but what happens during update-grub?

I'm quite sure, that update-grub broke my system, but I don't have any idea, 
who takes part on that job.
 
 I'd say Grub2 and/or your mainboard (unlikely) has a problem that is in
 no way related to your upgrade to 6.0.1 (but to stable in general). 

VETO again!

Before update 6.0.1 I could install a new system and during last 6 weeks there 
have been several updates that triggered an update-grub, which did not break 
my system that heavyly, that I wasn't able to handle.

 What I meant was to physically attach disks to different ports.

Yes, I tried that, but it is no acceptable solution to me, as the controller 
is not as fast as the internal ones and it makes no sense to attach the drives 
with expected heavy load to a slow controller.
 
  When the wrong disk is first, system start is not possible.
 
 Meaning the BIOS doesn't find a boot loader?

As every of my drives had an installed grub in mbr, it did not happen. Same 
effect than today, where system hangs after grubs welcome message.
I'll try that again with my cleaned drives.
 
 Sorry for stressing that again, but reporting problems here will not
 get the bug fixed. Ever.

LOL - hey, I'm not that thin-skinned :)

You don't stress me - my crude post came from my infinite disappointment, not 
why I was stressed.

I think, before a bug can be fixed, it has to be identified - and who ever can 
help on that task is welcome.

When the bug is identified, I'm willing to file a bug report or what ever you 
want me to do.
Although I don't believe in that, I accept the possibility, that I made a 
mistake ...
 
 I am sorry that I only ask question that apparently lead you nowhere. I
 am just stabbing in the dark and I am afraid we will never get to the
 source of the problem ...

Never mind - I know that buisness :)

 unless you start from scratch and document every step you do in detail.

What's unclear from (my post from 06:59:49 today):

 1.) A fresh installation from debian 6.0 netinst CD results in an unbootable 
 system, even using a single partition installation target.

I did that fresh installation yesterday or the day before yesterday - so it 
leaded to a debian 6.0.1 - as the netinst CD is just an installer which 
updates to the current system.


kind regards

Gero


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-23 Thread Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.

On 2011-03-23 09:14:04 Geronimo wrote:
For me its a debian QA issue.

grub may have bugs, as well as linux kernel - and of cause, each bug may
break a system or lead to fresh installation, which does not work.
That's no problem - if it happens at sid or testing.

... but for me, its completely unacceptable having this happen to debian
stable.

No other linux distribution has that QA-level of debian, so it may happen on
every other linux too.

Debian stable is a synonym for really good (and unreached by others) QA -
and this has been broken now.

Nothing really changed in this area around Squeeze release.  RC bugs are 
tracked and resolved with new uploads, downgraded, ignored because they don't 
affect testing-that-will-soon-be-stable, or specifically tagged to be handled 
with an update to stable.

If no one has issues with testing / sid, or they have issues and don't file 
bugs, then it won't be on the release team's radar.  With things that are 
remarkably hardware specific (like GRUB2) it's not really possible for a DD to 
test your configuration unless they just happen to have it as well.  With 
certain other things (like FTBFS issues) there are DDs that, as time permits, 
run through the entire archive and file bugs for such QA issues.

There's usually plenty of time between freeze and release.  If you want to 
make sure the release works for your configuration, test the upgrade / install 
during freeze and file bugs.  Even if something won't be fixed (i.e. using 
kernel device names in /etc/fstab is fragile), it can be turned into 
information / documentation contained in the release notes.

Also, Debian doesn't control upstream.  When KDE decides to abandon KDE 3 or 
the GRUB developers decide to abandon GRUB1, Debian *has* to follow.[1]  For 
the vast majority of programs in Debian, there are not enough DDs interested 
in that software to maintain it without support from upstream.

[1]  FWIW, GRUB2 and KDE SC 4 are both much more capable and featureful than 
their predecessors.[2]  They do lack the finishing that KDE 3 and GRUB1 got 
through years of being deployed in production.  Some of that finishing is 
missed; much of it really was cruft that just made it harder to improve the 
systems.

[2] Let this not be interpreted as approval of the development process for 
either of these projects.  As a maintenance programmer, there's plenty of code 
I've wanted to throw out and just re-implement from the ground up.  But, the 
more I do it, the more I get the sense that that is rarely, if ever, the 
correct way forward.  I would like liked to see the changes made in both these 
projects made more incrementally.
-- 
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.   ,= ,-_-. =.
b...@iguanasuicide.net  ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-23 Thread Jochen Schulz

Geronimo:
 Jochen Schulz wrote:

 AFAICS, we can rule out the kernel as the cuplrit completely, as grub
 doesn't even get that far.
 
 VETO - after reboot, you might be right, but what happens during update-grub?

update-grub only creates the configuration file, it doesn't write the
MBR or anything like that.

 As every of my drives had an installed grub in mbr,

Ok, I forgot that. (BTW, I find this setup really strange, but if it
worked in the past with grub2 it should of course continue to work.)

 unless you start from scratch and document every step you do in detail.
 
 What's unclear from (my post from 06:59:49 today):
 
 1.) A fresh installation from debian 6.0 netinst CD results in an unbootable 
 system, even using a single partition installation target.

Ok, that's great! I would say that makes you eligible to file a bug
report against d-i. :) Can you diff the grub.cfg against the one
generated by 6.0? How many disks did you have attached to the system?
Can you still make the system bootable again just by removing the extra
SATA controller? Does it suffice to remove the disks from that
controller? Is there anything else you can do with the hardware or the
BIOS to make it bootable again?

J.
-- 
If nightclub doormen recognised me I would be more fulfilled.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-23 Thread Mark

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Jochen Schulz m...@well-adjusted.de wrote:

 Geronimo:
  Jochen Schulz wrote:
 
  AFAICS, we can rule out the kernel as the cuplrit completely, as grub
  doesn't even get that far.
 
  VETO - after reboot, you might be right, but what happens during
 update-grub?

 update-grub only creates the configuration file, it doesn't write the
 MBR or anything like that.


I'm very thankful for Debian, but must agree with some of the posts here
regarding GRUB2's placement in Stable.  Even when it detects another
operating system during installation, and you give it approval to add to the
boot menu, upon reboot after fresh installation it doesn't appear in the
boot menu.  Some edits to /etc/default/grub and /boot/grub/grub.cfg (the one
that says DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE) can make it work (after some pretty
extensive Googling for those of us who aren't GRUB2 gurus).  It just seems
odd that control was taken away from the user regarding superficial things
like the name that appears on the GRUB boot menu/splash screen upon
startup.  Most people I help out really don't want to see that Windows 7 is
on /dev/sda2, for example, and the only way to change it is with editing a
file that says it shouldn't be edited.  (??)

So, it's good to see I am not alone!

Mark

Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Geronimo geronimo...@arcor.de wrote:
 Tom H wrote:

 - Does grub-probe on squeeze and maverick return the same values?

 Can you please verify the script checkSystem.sh, that I got u right?
 Especially the ubuntu / chainload part?

 Should I replace X and Y from the line:
        set root=(hdX,Y)  ## using X and Y for /mnt/squeeze/boot
 or are that values replaced by any of grubs scripts?

 Shouldn't the path of 40_custom be /etc/grub.d?
 Neither debian, nor ubuntu has a /boot/grub.d directory.

I should've proof-read my post. Yes, it's /etc/grub.d and not
/boot/grub.d. Sorry.

And chainload_test() should be (notice that I've moved the two insmods down):

chainload_test() {
cat  /etc/grub.d/40_custom  TEST
#!/bin/sh
cat  EOF
menuentry chainload squeeze from maverick {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root=(hdX,Y)
linux /grub/core.img
different partitions
}
EOF
TEST
}

so that cat /etc/grub.d/40_custom gives
#!/bin/sh
cat  EOF
menuentry chainload squeeze from maverick {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root=(hdX,Y)
linux /grub/core.img
different partitions
}
EOF

where (hdX,Y) is the output of grub-probe --target drive /mnt/squeeze/boot.

So that when update-grub runs, the following ends at the bottom of
/boot/grub/grub.cfg:

### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/40_custom ###
menuentry chainload squeeze from maverick {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root=(hdX,Y)
linux /grub/core.img
}
### END /etc/grub.d/40_custom ###

(Looking at the above, I'm wondering why I didn't just say edit
/boot/grub/grub.cfg! :) )


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 5:14 AM, Geronimo geronimo...@arcor.de wrote:
 Tom H wrote:

 -  Do the grub.cfg entries for squeeze in squeeze and maverick match
 for the insmods, the grub root, and the system root?

 I attached an archive with diffs of complete grub.cfg and just the menue
 entries.

Thanks for the diff but it made me go cros-eyed. :)

You've attached both your grub.cfg's so I removed the unnecessary
lines (for our purpose).

Take a look at them below. Your squeeze grub.cfg sets root as sdg2
then sde2 through 00_linux, as sdg2 through 05_debian_theme, and sde2
through 10_linux.

I don't have 05_debian_theme on my boxes (deleted!) but looking
quickly at 10_linux, the first set root... comes from a grub-probe
of the directory corresponding to $GRUB_THEME.

begin_UBU

### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/00_header ###
set root='(hd1,msdos3)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set b9ad85b7-d8b0-42f9-8c3a-c09a435cbe26
### END /etc/grub.d/00_header ###

### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/10_linux ###
menuentry 'Maverick' {
set root='(hd1,msdos3)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set b9ad85b7-d8b0-42f9-8c3a-c09a435cbe26
linux   /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.35-22-generic
root=UUID=b9ad85b7-d8b0-42f9-8c3a-c09a435cbe26 ro   quiet splash
initrd  /boot/initrd.img-2.6.35-22-generic
}
### END /etc/grub.d/10_linux ###

### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober ###
menuentry Squeeze (on /dev/sdb1) {
set root='(hd1,msdos2)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 59c82698-6fcc-4512-a51c-261348d637da
linux /vmlinuz-2.6.32-5-amd64
root=UUID=7ce6540f-5ffe-445d-9bbf-d41652854700 ro quiet
initrd /initrd.img-2.6.32-5-amd64
}
### END /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober ###

/end_UBU

begin_DEB

### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/00_header ###
set root='(hd6,msdos2)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 44403194-a873-48ac-978c-b08a13c5d756
...
set root='(hd4,msdos2)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 59c82698-6fcc-4512-a51c-261348d637da
### END /etc/grub.d/00_header ###

### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme ###
set root='(hd6,msdos2)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 44403194-a873-48ac-978c-b08a13c5d756
### END /etc/grub.d/05_debian_theme ###

### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/10_linux ###
menuentry 'Squeeze' {
set root='(hd4,msdos2)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set 59c82698-6fcc-4512-a51c-261348d637da
linux   /vmlinuz-2.6.32-5-amd64
root=UUID=7ce6540f-5ffe-445d-9bbf-d41652854700 ro  quiet
initrd  /initrd.img-2.6.32-5-amd64
}
### END /etc/grub.d/10_linux ###

### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober ###
menuentry Maverick (on /dev/sde3) {
set root='(hd4,msdos3)'
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set b9ad85b7-d8b0-42f9-8c3a-c09a435cbe26
linux /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.35-22-generic
root=UUID=b9ad85b7-d8b0-42f9-8c3a-c09a435cbe26 ro quiet splash
initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.35-22-generic
}
### END /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober ###

end_DEB


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 5:19 AM, Geronimo geronimo...@arcor.de wrote:
 Tom H wrote:

 At what point does booting from squeeze's grub does the boot process
 fail? And what's the error (if any)?

 Grub fails after writing Grub black on white, before showing the menue.
 I don't know how much code fits into the mbr and I don't know, whether grub is
 stil busy or whether the mbr-jump ended in nirvana.

 And what's the error (if any)?

 No error-message at all.

So not even a grub rescue prompt!

I wonder whether this isn't related to the sdg2 issue that I pointed
out in my previous email. I don't know enough (or even anything!)
about the handoff from boot.img in the MBR to core.img in the post-MBR
gap to know whether the first set root='(hd6,msdos2) can screw
things up.

Of course, I could be completely off-base and your problem could be
some kernel/hardware driver problem caused by 6.0 to 6.0.1 upgrade...


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Mark mamar...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Jochen Schulz m...@well-adjusted.de wrote:
 Geronimo:
  Jochen Schulz wrote:
 
  AFAICS, we can rule out the kernel as the cuplrit completely, as grub
  doesn't even get that far.
 
  VETO - after reboot, you might be right, but what happens during
  update-grub?

 update-grub only creates the configuration file, it doesn't write the
 MBR or anything like that.

 I'm very thankful for Debian, but must agree with some of the posts here
 regarding GRUB2's placement in Stable.  Even when it detects another
 operating system during installation, and you give it approval to add to the
 boot menu, upon reboot after fresh installation it doesn't appear in the
 boot menu.  Some edits to /etc/default/grub and /boot/grub/grub.cfg (the one
 that says DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE) can make it work (after some pretty
 extensive Googling for those of us who aren't GRUB2 gurus). It just seems
 odd that control was taken away from the user regarding superficial things
 like the name that appears on the GRUB boot menu/splash screen upon
 startup.  Most people I help out really don't want to see that Windows 7 is
 on /dev/sda2, for example, and the only way to change it is with editing a
 file that says it shouldn't be edited.

Theoretically, you only need to edit /etc/default/grub to customize
grub.cfg. I've been using grub2 since the alphas of Ubuntu 9.10 and
I'm amazed that there are still problems given all the - essentially -
beta-testing that Ubuntu and Arch (and perhaps others but these are
the ones who stand out from my perspective, along with squeeze-testing
and sid users) have done since Fall 2009. At least from Fall 2009 to
Spring 2010.  I prefer grub1 but grub2 works but it just seems to be
too complex compared to grub1.

If you just run update-grub and everything falls into place (as I'm
sure it does now in *most* cases), all's well; and you could do the
same with grub1 on Debian. I never used update-grub with grub1 (I'm a
Solaris/RHEL admin by day so I tried it out of curiosity when I
started supporting Debian but chose to stick to editing menu.lst
directly so as not to have to learn an unnecessary Debianism) but I
suspect there it was just one script that used the AUTOMAGIC section
of /boot/grub/menu.lst to modify /boot/grub/menu.lst.

With grub2, if you want to troubleshoot update-grub and the resulting
/boot/grub/grub.cfg, you have to look at /etc/default/grub,
/etc/grub.d/*, /usr/lib/grub/grub-mkconfig_lib, and
/usr/bin/grub-mkconfig. You might not need to do so often (I haven't
had to do so for my boxes for a very long time) but, if and when you
do, it borders on silly...


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-23 Thread Mark

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:


 [snip]

 With grub2, if you want to troubleshoot update-grub and the resulting
 /boot/grub/grub.cfg, you have to look at /etc/default/grub,
 /etc/grub.d/*, /usr/lib/grub/grub-mkconfig_lib, and
 /usr/bin/grub-mkconfig. You might not need to do so often (I haven't
 had to do so for my boxes for a very long time) but, if and when you
 do, it borders on silly...


Thanks Tom.  Have you or anyone else been able to change the text displayed
on the GRUB2 boot menu _without_ editing the /boot/grub/grub.cfg file?
Maybe the label/text is stored somewhere and I missed it, just curious.

Mark

Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-22 Thread Geronimo

Hello,

Jochen Schulz wrote:
 Geronimo:
  Jochen Schulz wrote:
  Geronimo:
  the last update of debian broke my system completely!
  
  I am very sorry for your wasted time and loss of data. I see why you
  need to let off steam.
  
  Thank you very much! - usually I'm not that coarse.
 
 That's ok. I am glad my mail didn't anger you even more. :)

No person caused any anger to me.

I got angry and frustrated by the fact, that the same issue, I reported before 
squeeze becoming stable now came back to break my stable system.

I confess, that I might have glorified debian comunity too much - and may be, 
my anger arised about the difference between my thinking and reality ...

 - You have five disks (SSD or hard disks, shouldn't matter):
 
   / on sda1, ext4
   /boot on sda2, ext2
   swap on sdc1
   /usr on sdc2, ext4 (btw, it's UNIX system ressources, not user)
   another swap on sdd2
   /var on sdd2, ext4
 
   sdb and sde appear to be unused with respect to the squeeze system
   (You may use them with squeeze, but they don't hold any
   system-relevant data.)

Not quite.

I have four system disks and a hotswap backplane with four user disks, 
which are powered on demand, so system may have four to eight disks.
The system disks are attached to the main board and are permanently powered.
The backplane-disks are disks exchanged with other machines and they don't 
contain system relevant data.
Each disk of a pool of exchangeable disks is labeled to the same name, so I 
can mount different disks from the same pool without changing fstab.

sdb is a System disk with data, sde is a user disk with data.

What happened:

After the system was broken, I was stuck to the cd/dvd I had, which is the 
debian installer disk 6.0 stable and an ubuntu 10.10 live. The debian 
installer disk is my first choice for rescue operations, but I did not succeed 
to bring the system into play.
So I startet the ubuntu live, to be able to google for recovery tips.
I accidently found a script that tells me what grub sees from the disks.
Sadly I placed that in virtual storage so I don't have the results and I don't 
remember the name of the script.

... anyway:
The script told me, that every disk contained a grub installation in mbr, so I 
thought, might be a problem for grub and searched for a way to remove grub 
from mbr.
The only way, I found, was a dd sequence that wipes out the first block.

What I did not know before: that dd sequence removes all partition data.
I executed that dd sequence against 7 of my disks and after reboot I was so 
*frightened* about the damage I did.

So I searched for a way to recover partition informations. That leaded me to 
testdisk, which worked fine for the SSDs. Therefore 3 of my system disks are ok 
again. The rest of the disks is damaged.

I run testdisk on the VelociRaptor too, and let it write the found data, but 
the result was wrong.
So my current state is: one disk with wrong partition table and three disks 
with wiped out partition table.
All four disks contain valid data with usage of 50 to 90 percent with sizes 
from 150GB to 2TB.
 
 - Some of these disks are attached to a secondary SATA controller
   (RocketRAID 230x).
 
 - Other disks are attached to the mainboard's (GA880GM-UD2H) controller.
 
 - Your setup worked fine even after you upgraded from lenny to squeeze.

Yep.

 - You recently upgraded to the next point release and in the process
   were asked to reboot. After that, your system didn't boot. Btw, I am
   curious what exactly triggered the reboot warning. I cannot remember
   having seen that.

I'm using KDE as desktop and the message arised from KDE. AFAIK it was the 
same, when I used gnome desktop.

 - Which disks are connected to which controller?

As told above, the system disks are attached to the main board. The system 
disks are the three SSDs and a WD VelociRaptor (sdb) 

 - How did you upgrade to 6.0.1?

I have a bash alias for this task:
alias dist-upgrade='apt-get update  apt-get dist-upgrade  apt-get clean'

That get's executed (nearly) every day before I start work.
excerpt from dpkg.log is attached.

 - How often did you reboot the system after the upgrade from lenny to
   squeeze? I am not interested in the exact number, I just want to
   ensure you did it at all. :)

May be 400 times? - Not sure.
 
 - How did you configure the secondary controller? AHCI?

You mean the secondary controller from mainboard? - Yes, AHCI.

 - Have you tried shuffling your disks around? Does the system respond
   differently depending on the controller for / or /boot?

The system shuffles the disks around when I switch a disk from backplane on/off 
or enter a USB-stick, so yes - I'm very used to reorder disks at BIOS.
When the wrong disk is first, system start is not possible.

  So, may be you can guide me to a better use case, when the system is
  broken and the machine does not work any more.
 
 Well, I am not too proficient in these things either. I throw my
 problems at Google

Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-22 Thread Chris Bannister

On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 06:53:38PM +0100, Geronimo wrote:
 I had the same issue when squeeze was testing and I reported it to this ML. 

Mmmm, so there is an already known issue.

 But most comments leaded to my own problem. No one was willing to accept, 
 that 
 there's a big issue with grub.

So in reality, it is not really a Debian issue.
Have you considered taking this up with upstream?

 Even now - I don't have the impression, that anybody accepts, that my 
 situation is a grub issue.

If you can convince the grub developers that it is, then they should be
interested in fixing it.

But in the meantime you are aware that you have this issue and now it
has happened twice.

I would be wary of any updates where there was a chance of grub having
to probe for external devices, etc. 

If you know the fix, of course:

* update/upgrade
* apply fix
* smile

   ... and the installer? Crashes on installing, when /usr and /var are
   different partitions which should not be formatted. Huh???

Perhaps an issue of initial disk detection? 

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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-22 Thread Geronimo

Hello,

Chris Bannister wrote:
 On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 06:53:38PM +0100, Geronimo wrote:
 
  I had the same issue when squeeze was testing and I reported it to this
  ML. 

 Mmmm, so there is an already known issue.

Not quite. 

Last time I changed the fs-type from ext3 to ext4 and restored the system from 
tarball, so it might be possible, that I did a mistake during that step.
I was recommended to setup a fresh system - and I followed that advice.

... and I was already used to patch grub.cfg after each update, that caused a 
grub-update.

But this time a patch of grub.cfg did not bring the system back into play.

 So in reality, it is not really a Debian issue.

Hm, don't understand that. 

If a debian stable system is unbootable after update - is that a debian issue?
I did not change anything respect to hardware.

by the way: I looked at output from smartctrl of the system disk, which has an 
age of less than one year:
power cycle count:  641
power on hours: 3075

 Have you considered taking this up with upstream?

Don't know - what do you want me to do?

 If you know the fix, of course:

No, as I stated before: I have no idea of system internals like boot process.


kind regards

Gero


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What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

the last update of debian broke my system completely! After dist-upgrade I got 
the advice, that I should reboot the system. Nothing special, so I rebooted 
the system.  That was the start of the misery. Grub was not able to find its 
boot partition and for such - it hung before showing up the menue.

So I tried to boot from debian installer disk using rescue mode - all is fine, 
I could reinstall grub - installer says no error but on reboot the same 
problem.

I don't have any exotic hardware, except the fact, that I use 8 harddisc at my 
desktop system and for so I have an external SATA-controller. I reported 
problems with grub about 6 weeks ago and I got the advice to create an ext2 
boot partition and reinstall debian.  I followed that advice and the system 
worked fine since then, but now I get the same trouble again.

Years ago I came to debian, cause Suse bugged me with having to reinstall 
after each release change. I tried nearly every available linux and when I 
came to debian stable (woody at that time), I felt at home.  Since then, I 
only had problems when I tried other linux or even debian sid - so I had to 
confess: I'm a debian stable user.

Whenever colleagues or friends told me about problems with their OS I said:
Hey, move to debian stable - and the sun is shining :)

And now this. *FUCK* !

Yes, I'm too agitated to mask this fact/word.

What's so difficult to add a working boot-manager? Or even test it?  How could 
that *FUCKING* grub2 ever got into debian stable?

When I read docs from grub2 - it looks like it is able to read all types of 
partition tables and all types of filesystems ...

... and now a system breaks on the fact of having an external SATA-
controller?!? Is that really so exotic, that no one tests that, before moving 
packages into stable?

... and the installer? Crashes on installing, when /usr and /var are different 
partitions which should not be formatted. Huh???
Is that stable?

When I look at the output of fdisk -p each harddisk has a unique identifier, 
which keeps being the same after reboot. So why not kick that buggy hdx 
tokens from grub.cfg and use the real disk-identifier?

I have no idea about boot process, but I know software development and 
testing. HELL! - I'm so disappointed about the last update - I can't tell you.  
For me, debian stable is not only the OS I use, but it is also my religion: 
stability rules over visual effects.

Seems as this is no more true for debian stable - so welcome to quality of 
microsoft. You have to format all your disks to install an OS - unbelievable!

Today I tried to reinstall debian - but that did not work either.  Guess what 
I had to do, do bring my system up? - Yes, I had to remove the external SATA-
controller and for so loose half of my disks.  No, the controller is not 
defect. Yesterday I run prime for several hours.

From rescue disk I made some mistakes, when I tried to remove grub from
other disks mbr, which now causes the loss of lots of data. I only solved to 
recover the small disks usings testdisk. The disks above 100G seem to be too 
big for testdisk - so I have to work on data recovery.

I hope, that debian changes the project manager back to a person that knows 
the meaning of stable. The current state is not acceptable, disappointing 
and a disgrace for the name of debian!


kind regards

Gero


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-21 Thread Scott Ferguson

On 21/03/11 22:59, Geronimo wrote:
 Hello,
 
 the last update of debian broke my system completely! After dist-upgrade I 
 got 
 the advice, that I should reboot the system. Nothing special, so I rebooted 
 the system.  That was the start of the misery. Grub was not able to find its 
 boot partition and for such - it hung before showing up the menue.
 
 So I tried to boot from debian installer disk using rescue mode - all is 
 fine, 
 I could reinstall grub - installer says no error but on reboot the same 
 problem.
 
 I don't have any exotic hardware, except the fact, that I use 8 harddisc at 
 my 
 desktop system and for so I have an external SATA-controller.


snipped

Perhaps proprietary firmware is the cause of your software problem -
strangely you failed to provide any information about the most likely cause.


As to your main problem, with due deference to the posting rules - I
refer you to the reply given in the case of Arkell v. Pressdram.


 
 
 kind regards
 
 Gero
 
 

Sincerely, Scott


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-21 Thread Reinhard Mantey

Hello,

 Perhaps proprietary firmware is the cause of your software problem -
 strangely you failed to provide any information about the most likely
 cause.

Well, thought about that, but that hardware is working fine for over one year 
with daily dist-upgrades and even if I boot with debian installer, all disks 
are recognized and working.

The real problem is, that the order of the drives changes on every boot, or 
let me say - it's indetermined, how the order of drives will be after next 
boot.

Even in rescue mode things are quite strange. When I i.e. have to select 
/dev/sda1 as root device, after opening a shell for that root partition, a cat 
/proc/partitions shows the partition as sda1 but a df states, it is /dev/sdd1

So stuff around naming of devices and partitions is quite wired.

 As to your main problem, ...

I admit, my main problem is mostly ideologic, but isn't it a rule of debian 
stable, that no update will break a running system?
The last update did break my system.

So what's wrong with my point of view (beside the fact that I'm too 
emotional)?


kind regards

Gero


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-21 Thread Ron Johnson


On 03/21/2011 10:15 AM, Reinhard Mantey wrote:

Hello,


Perhaps proprietary firmware is the cause of your software problem -
strangely you failed to provide any information about the most likely
cause.


Well, thought about that, but that hardware is working fine for over one year
with daily dist-upgrades and even if I boot with debian installer, all disks
are recognized and working.

The real problem is, that the order of the drives changes on every boot, or
let me say - it's indetermined, how the order of drives will be after next
boot.

Even in rescue mode things are quite strange. When I i.e. have to select
/dev/sda1 as root device, after opening a shell for that root partition, a cat
/proc/partitions shows the partition as sda1 but a df states, it is /dev/sdd1

So stuff around naming of devices and partitions is quite wired.


As to your main problem, ...


I admit, my main problem is mostly ideologic, but isn't it a rule of debian
stable, that no update will break a running system?
The last update did break my system.

So what's wrong with my point of view (beside the fact that I'm too
emotional)?



Christ Almighty... where have you been?

The kernel went to indeterminate drive ordering *years* ago.  That's 
why fstab now uses UUID or LABEL to associate partitions with mount 
points.


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-21 Thread Jerome BENOIT


Hello,

On 21/03/11 16:15, Reinhard Mantey wrote:

Hello,


Perhaps proprietary firmware is the cause of your software problem -
strangely you failed to provide any information about the most likely
cause.


Well, thought about that, but that hardware is working fine for over one year
with daily dist-upgrades and even if I boot with debian installer, all disks
are recognized and working.

The real problem is, that the order of the drives changes on every boot, or
let me say - it's indetermined, how the order of drives will be after next
boot.

Even in rescue mode things are quite strange. When I i.e. have to select
/dev/sda1 as root device, after opening a shell for that root partition, a cat
/proc/partitions shows the partition as sda1 but a df states, it is /dev/sdd1

So stuff around naming of devices and partitions is quite wired.


As to your main problem, ...


I admit, my main problem is mostly ideologic, but isn't it a rule of debian
stable, that no update will break a running system?
The last update did break my system.


Certainly because your system is not well configured.
The order of the drives is a classical issue that can be easily
fixed by using in /etc/fstab either LABEL or UUID entries rather
than device entries (see fstab(5) for details). A less easy way
is to play with udev. UUID entries can be use in grub too.

hth,
Jerome




So what's wrong with my point of view (beside the fact that I'm too
emotional)?


kind regards

Gero





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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-21 Thread Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.

On 2011-03-21 10:15:37 Reinhard Mantey wrote:
I admit, my main problem is mostly ideologic, but isn't it a rule of debian
stable, that no update will break a running system?
The last update did break my system.

While that is a good target, it is not possible to achieve.

Before upgrading from oldstable to stable you must read the release notes and 
modify your configuration appropriately.  Part of the release notes for 
Squeeze was migrating from device names to labels or uuids.

While udev and other changes in the kernel have caused more systems to show 
the non-deterministic nature of the kernel device names, and thus forced 
Debian (among others) to use labels and uuids in the installer, it has been a 
problem on certain configurations for about a decade, maybe longer.

Now, moving between 6.0.0 and 6.0.1 shouldn't have been a problem, but I 
suspect you actually would have had issues rebooting your 6.0.0 system even 
without the 6.0.1 updates, since you didn't have your fstab in order.
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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-21 Thread Darac Marjal

On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 04:15:37PM +0100, Reinhard Mantey wrote:
 Hello,
 
 
 I admit, my main problem is mostly ideologic, but isn't it a rule of debian 
 stable, that no update will break a running system?
 The last update did break my system.

I don't think that's what stable means in the Debian world. Stable means
unchanging. A stable release of Debian is one where new features are NOT
added. This is great for end users who want to know that their machine
won't break all of a sudden because some API has disappeared or
whatever.

However, the world moves on between these stable releases so it is
likely that your system will change. That's what testing is for.

Let me clarify that. Say I run a server providing some service to the
world. I want to know that, if I run my service on Debian Stable my
service will run without significant problems for the life of the Stable
release. I won't have to recompile my custom libraries, I won't have to
majorly reconfigure it etc.

However, in the mean time, I might be stuck on, say, a 2.4 kernel. So in
parallel, I run a development server on which I run testing. At some
point testing updates to a 2.6 kernel and I find I need to redesign my
service to handle that. Testing gives me months, perhaps a couple of
years to get this done so that, when I update the live system from
oldstable to stable, I can also update my service and voila! minimum
disruption.

Stable probably WILL break at updates, but it SHOULDN'T between updates.

 
 So what's wrong with my point of view (beside the fact that I'm too 
 emotional)?
 
 
 kind regards
 
 Gero
 
 
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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

 Christ Almighty... where have you been?

busy inventing PEBCAK issues :)

 The kernel went to indeterminate drive ordering *years* ago.  That's
 why fstab now uses UUID or LABEL to associate partitions with mount
 points.

Hey, may be u missed some of my writings.

I wrote, that I came to debian at woody time and from then on, I'm used to 
*daily* (!) dist-upgrages

... so the last upgrade was from debian 6.0 to 6.1

And yes of cause - I use LABEL and UUID in fstab for years ;)

If you read my writing carefully, you'll notice that I wrote, that grub has 
problems with changing drive order. 

The point is, in grub.cfg each partition is mentioned by (hd?, msdos?) and hd? 
never matches. Last weeks I managed grub update errors by manually editing 
grub.cfg (I know it should not be done, but it was the only way for me to get 
the system running).

 Stable probably WILL break at updates, but it SHOULDN'T between updates.

I don't remember, when I came to debian stable, guess that will be more than 5 
years - and during that time, *no* dist-upgrade *ever* broke my system.
- til today -
Therefore - for me - debian stable shows up, what's possible to OS stability.

Now I built a new partition, where I installed Ubuntu and now I can boot in my 
old Debian stable system having the controller plugged in - using grub from 
ubuntu.

... by the way: the controller is this (excerpt from lspci):
SCSI storage controller: HighPoint Technologies, Inc. RocketRAID 230x 4 Port 
SATA-II Controller (rev 02)
and the mainboard is a GA880GM-UD2H
Boot-drive is an Intel X25-V and /usr and /var are on OCZ Vertex 2E each.

It has been said, that debian 6.0 is completely free - so if the controller 
worked the last months, what is more free now, that it won't work with 6.01?


Does anyone know a tool, that can recover (deleted) partion table from disks  
500GB?
Any hint is appreciated.


kind regards

Gero


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-21 Thread Jochen Schulz

Geronimo:
 
 the last update of debian broke my system completely!

I am very sorry for your wasted time and loss of data. I see why you
need to let off steam. Nevertheless I think this threads leads nowhere
unless you are more specific about the hardware in use and what kind of
upgrade you actually ran. Instead of insulting Debian developers you
could try to help them get the problem fixed (or make them aware in the
first place).

 ... and now a system breaks on the fact of having an external SATA-
 controller?!? Is that really so exotic, that no one tests that, before moving 
 packages into stable?

If you are under the impression that every package needs to pass
coordinated QA testing before it enters stable, then you are wrong. If
nobody tested your setup using testing or sid, then you are basically
out of luck.

 ... and the installer? Crashes on installing, when /usr and /var are 
 different 
 partitions which should not be formatted. Huh???

This looks like a separate issue which you might want to report against
debian-installer. BTW, using unformatted /var and/or /usr for a fresh
installation looks like a bad idea to me.

J.
-- 
Scientists know what they are talking about.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 http://www.slowlydownward.com/NODATA/data_enter2.html


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-21 Thread Ron Johnson


On 03/21/2011 11:53 AM, Geronimo wrote:

Hello,


Christ Almighty... where have you been?


busy inventing PEBCAK issues :)


The kernel went to indeterminate drive ordering *years* ago.  That's
why fstab now uses UUID or LABEL to associate partitions with mount
points.


Hey, may be u missed some of my writings.

I wrote, that I came to debian at woody time and from then on, I'm used to
*daily* (!) dist-upgrages

... so the last upgrade was from debian 6.0 to 6.1

And yes of cause - I use LABEL and UUID in fstab for years ;)

If you read my writing carefully, you'll notice that I wrote, that grub has
problems with changing drive order.

The point is, in grub.cfg each partition is mentioned by (hd?, msdos?) and hd?
never matches. Last weeks I managed grub update errors by manually editing
grub.cfg (I know it should not be done, but it was the only way for me to get
the system running).



So you're not using UUID in grub.  Which you should be doing.

Of course, it could be that your mobo doesn't like grub2.  Since the 
grub and Debian developers know that, they made a big, fat warning 
when wanting to install grub2, asking if you're sure that you want 
to do it, since grub2 is still in beta, so it might break.


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

Jochen Schulz wrote:
 Geronimo:
  the last update of debian broke my system completely!
 
 I am very sorry for your wasted time and loss of data. I see why you
 need to let off steam. 

Thank you very much! - usually I'm not that coarse.

 Nevertheless I think this threads leads nowhere unless you are more specific
 about the hardware in use and what kind of upgrade you actually ran. Instead
 of insulting Debian developers you could try to help them get the problem
 fixed (or make them aware in the first place).

With my last post I wrote about my specific hardware.

If you tell me, what I could do to improve system and how I could do - of 
cause I'm willing to do any tests, that help improve system!

  ... and now a system breaks on the fact of having an external SATA-
  controller?!? Is that really so exotic, that no one tests that, before
  moving packages into stable?
 
 If you are under the impression that every package needs to pass
 coordinated QA testing before it enters stable, then you are wrong.

I followed quite a time several debian MLs and yes, my opinion from reading 
the discussion between developers was, that debian has a coordinated QA 
testing.

 If nobody tested your setup using testing or sid, then you are basically
 out of luck.

I had the same issue when squeeze was testing and I reported it to this ML. 
But most comments leaded to my own problem. No one was willing to accept, that 
there's a big issue with grub.
Even now - I don't have the impression, that anybody accepts, that my 
situation is a grub issue.
 
  ... and the installer? Crashes on installing, when /usr and /var are
  different partitions which should not be formatted. Huh???
 
 This looks like a separate issue which you might want to report against
 debian-installer. BTW, using unformatted /var and/or /usr for a fresh
 installation looks like a bad idea to me.

So, may be you can guide me to a better use case, when the system is broken 
and the machine does not work any more. 
I'm not a system specialist - just a user, so I do what I know or what I can 
google about.

Any advice on how to do it better is welcome.


kind regards

Gero


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

Ron Johnson wrote:
 On 03/21/2011 11:53 AM, Geronimo wrote:
 
  And yes of cause - I use LABEL and UUID in fstab for years ;)
  
 So you're not using UUID in grub.  

Ok - that's a challenge

Of cause, I use UUID in grub. But if you look at grub.cfg, theres one place, 
where UUID is used and other places where (hd?, msdos?) is used. And all (hd?, 
...) entries are wrong - almost always.

 Of course, it could be that your mobo doesn't like grub2.  Since the
 grub and Debian developers know that, they made a big, fat warning
 when wanting to install grub2, asking if you're sure that you want
 to do it, since grub2 is still in beta, so it might break.

Huh? - Did you ever installed a debian 6.x?

There's no choice to use another boot-manager. You have to use grub (which 
silently is grub2) or you have to use grub2. If grub2 is really stil beta - 
what the hell does it do in debian stable?

I tried to use super grub2 disk but that disk was not able to find any 
bootable partition too. It hangs during scan.

Grub from debian 6.0 had no problem with my system. Same is true for Ubuntu 
10.10

So where's my mistake?

kind regards

Gero


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-21 Thread Tom H

On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Geronimo geronimo...@arcor.de wrote:

 And yes of cause - I use LABEL and UUID in fstab for years ;)

 If you read my writing carefully, you'll notice that I wrote, that grub has
 problems with changing drive order.

 The point is, in grub.cfg each partition is mentioned by (hd?, msdos?) and hd?
 never matches. Last weeks I managed grub update errors by manually editing
 grub.cfg (I know it should not be done, but it was the only way for me to get
 the system running).

Look at /boot/grub/device.map. It sets up a correspondence between
grub's hdX and devices in /dev/disk/by-id/... so it doesn't depend
on the kernel's device names.

Run grub-mkdevicemap and grub-install '(hdX)' where (hdX)
corresponds to the disk in /boot/grub/device.map on which you want
to install grub.

Furthermore, it's fine to have a rant and blame this or that for your
problem but weren't you asked whether you wanted to chainload grub2
from grub1 when you went through the upgrade? Did you choose that
option? Did you test grub2 that way?


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-21 Thread Ron Johnson


On 03/21/2011 01:08 PM, Geronimo wrote:

Hello,

Ron Johnson wrote:

On 03/21/2011 11:53 AM, Geronimo wrote:


And yes of cause - I use LABEL and UUID in fstab for years ;)


So you're not using UUID in grub.


Ok - that's a challenge

Of cause, I use UUID in grub. But if you look at grub.cfg, theres one place,
where UUID is used and other places where (hd?, msdos?) is used. And all (hd?,
...) entries are wrong - almost always.


Of course, it could be that your mobo doesn't like grub2.  Since the
grub and Debian developers know that, they made a big, fat warning
when wanting to install grub2, asking if you're sure that you want
to do it, since grub2 is still in beta, so it might break.


Huh? - Did you ever installed a debian 6.x?



Squeeze, back when it was still Testing.


There's no choice to use another boot-manager. You have to use grub (which
silently is grub2) or you have to use grub2.


When I installed Squeeze, it absolutely asked if I wanted grub or 
grub2.  (Maybe because I used Expert Mode?)



  If grub2 is really stil beta -
what the hell does it do in debian stable?



grub1 isn't maintained anymore.  Focus your vitriol at the FSF.


I tried to use super grub2 disk but that disk was not able to find any
bootable partition too. It hangs during scan.

Grub from debian 6.0 had no problem with my system. Same is true for Ubuntu
10.10

So where's my mistake?



I don't remember seeing a link (or, preferably, attachment) of your 
boot.cfg and output of /sbin/blkid | sort.


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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

Hello,

Tom H wrote:
 On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Geronimo geronimo...@arcor.de wrote:
  And yes of cause - I use LABEL and UUID in fstab for years ;)
  
  If you read my writing carefully, you'll notice that I wrote, that grub
  has problems with changing drive order.
  
  The point is, in grub.cfg each partition is mentioned by (hd?, msdos?)
  and hd? never matches. Last weeks I managed grub update errors by
  manually editing grub.cfg (I know it should not be done, but it was the
  only way for me to get the system running).
 
 Look at /boot/grub/device.map. It sets up a correspondence between
 grub's hdX and devices in /dev/disk/by-id/... so it doesn't depend
 on the kernel's device names.

I tried to change that file, but I suspect, that nobody cares about that 
changes. I did that already about 6 weeks ago - and it did not change anything 
then, so I did not try it again.

 Run grub-mkdevicemap and grub-install '(hdX)' where (hdX)
 corresponds to the disk in /boot/grub/device.map on which you want
 to install grub.

That's what I usually try booting from debian installer disk using rescue 
mode. The point is, grub hangs after showing the GRUB black on white before 
displaying the menue.

 Furthermore, it's fine to have a rant and blame this or that for your
 problem but weren't you asked whether you wanted to chainload grub2
 from grub1 when you went through the upgrade? Did you choose that
 option? Did you test grub2 that way?

I beg your pardon. I remember that question a little bit, but its so long ago, 
that I really can't remember. I switched to squeeze, when debian anounced the 
feature freeze. I think that might be about one year ago or so.
That's why I don't understand the behaviour. Grub2 worked fine a really long 
time. Problems startet with squeeze becoming stable, or quite a bit before - 
not sure (may be about 6 weeks ago)

 I don't remember seeing a link (or, preferably, attachment) of your 
 boot.cfg and output of /sbin/blkid | sort.

Ok, the latter is attached (well - just half of the disks), the former does 
not exists any more, cause I purged grub2

 I chose LILO (thanks, Boyd - beware of the inevitable questions!).

LOL - yes, I tried that too. liloconfig states, that it does not recognize my 
disks. Did I mention, that I use ext4?

 And it is actually possible to ask for GRUB-legacy.

I tried that too. Installation failed - and I didn't dig any further.
I can't believe, but having ubuntu installed to another partition, system now 
works fine - and I'm quite sure, that ubuntu uses grub2 too ...


kind regards

Gero
/dev/sda1: LABEL=StdRoot UUID=7ce6540f-5ffe-445d-9bbf-d41652854700 
TYPE=ext4 
/dev/sda2: LABEL=boot UUID=59c82698-6fcc-4512-a51c-261348d637da TYPE=ext3 
SEC_TYPE=ext2 
/dev/sda3: LABEL=Deb_Rescue UUID=b9ad85b7-d8b0-42f9-8c3a-c09a435cbe26 
TYPE=ext4 
/dev/sdb1: UUID=78c0ca79-1306-4250-9b7e-9e154c54eb50 SEC_TYPE=ext2 
TYPE=ext3 
/dev/sdb2: UUID=e2c0528e-4294-4b1b-bc0c-20819d0f5b6c SEC_TYPE=ext2 
TYPE=ext3 
/dev/sdc1: UUID=129580e7-04cf-4700-82df-8ef9f6bd8fe7 TYPE=swap 
/dev/sdc2: LABEL=Squeeze_User UUID=44403194-a873-48ac-978c-b08a13c5d756 
TYPE=ext4 
/dev/sdd1: UUID=750773ee-f955-4f36-9c5c-1036adaeafb6 TYPE=swap 
/dev/sdd2: LABEL=Squeeze_Var UUID=55141d3b-4331-4f4a-b127-8ea77121a483 
TYPE=ext4 
/dev/sde1: UUID=2462a61a-8864-486b-820a-526a870a5452 TYPE=xfs

Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-21 Thread Andrei Popescu

On Lu, 21 mar 11, 18:21:09, Jochen Schulz wrote:
 
  ... and the installer? Crashes on installing, when /usr and /var are 
  different 
  partitions which should not be formatted. Huh???
 
 This looks like a separate issue which you might want to report against
 debian-installer. BTW, using unformatted /var and/or /usr for a fresh
 installation looks like a bad idea to me.

With should not be formated I understood they are already formated, so 
the installer should not do it *again*, or not?

Regards,
Andrei
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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-21 Thread Andrei Popescu

On Lu, 21 mar 11, 20:28:51, Geronimo wrote:
  
  Look at /boot/grub/device.map. It sets up a correspondence between
  grub's hdX and devices in /dev/disk/by-id/... so it doesn't depend
  on the kernel's device names.
 
 I tried to change that file, but I suspect, that nobody cares about that 
 changes. I did that already about 6 weeks ago - and it did not change 
 anything 
 then, so I did not try it again.
 
That file should be generated with 'grub-mkdevicemap', as hinted below.

  Run grub-mkdevicemap and grub-install '(hdX)' where (hdX)
  corresponds to the disk in /boot/grub/device.map on which you want
  to install grub.
...
  I don't remember seeing a link (or, preferably, attachment) of your 
  boot.cfg and output of /sbin/blkid | sort.
 
 Ok, the latter is attached (well - just half of the disks), the former does 
 not exists any more, cause I purged grub2

Too bad, now we can't investigate what was wrong. Just for the archives, 
here's an excerpt from a working grub.cfg from a fresh squeeze install:

,
| menuentry 'Debian GNU/Linux, with Linux 2.6.32-5-amd64' --class debian 
--class gnu-linux --class gnu --class os {
|   set gfxpayload=keep
|   insmod part_msdos
|   insmod ext2
|   set root='(hd0,msdos7)'
|   search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set da34b390-81e0-485b-a4f1-fffa7d5a6089
|   echo'Loading Linux 2.6.32-5-amd64 ...'
|   linux   /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.32-5-amd64 
root=UUID=da34b390-81e0-485b-a4f1-fffa7d5a6089 ro  quiet
|   echo'Loading initial ramdisk ...'
|   initrd  /boot/initrd.img-2.6.32-5-amd64
| }
`

You might think it's using devices names because of the 'set root=' 
line, but the next line will actually override that, using the UUID. The 
'linux' line is also using UUID to set the 'root' kernel parameter.

Hope this explains,
Andrei
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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-21 Thread Jochen Schulz

Geronimo:
 Jochen Schulz wrote:
 Geronimo:

 the last update of debian broke my system completely!
 
 I am very sorry for your wasted time and loss of data. I see why you
 need to let off steam. 
 
 Thank you very much! - usually I'm not that coarse.

That's ok. I am glad my mail didn't anger you even more. :)

 Nevertheless I think this threads leads nowhere unless you are more specific
 about the hardware in use and what kind of upgrade you actually ran. Instead
 of insulting Debian developers you could try to help them get the problem
 fixed (or make them aware in the first place).
 
 With my last post I wrote about my specific hardware.

I see. Didn't see it before sending my mail. I summarize what I know
until now:

- You have five disks (SSD or hard disks, shouldn't matter):

  / on sda1, ext4
  /boot on sda2, ext2
  swap on sdc1
  /usr on sdc2, ext4 (btw, it's UNIX system ressources, not user)
  another swap on sdd2
  /var on sdd2, ext4

  sdb and sde appear to be unused with respect to the squeeze system
  (You may use them with squeeze, but they don't hold any
  system-relevant data.)

- Some of these disks are attached to a secondary SATA controller
  (RocketRAID 230x).

- Other disks are attached to the mainboard's (GA880GM-UD2H) controller.

- Your setup worked fine even after you upgraded from lenny to squeeze.

- You recently upgraded to the next point release and in the process
  were asked to reboot. After that, your system didn't boot. Btw, I am
  curious what exactly triggered the reboot warning. I cannot remember
  having seen that.

Ok so far? Then let me ask a couple of questions:

- Which disks are connected to which controller?

- How did you upgrade to 6.0.1?

- Which packages were upgraded in the process? -I ask because the news
  item for the point release doesn't mention grub at all (only
  grub-installer, which you probably don't use) and that's one reason
  why I suspect your problem isn't directly related to the upgrade to
  6.0.1. All of dpkg, apt-get aptitude keep logs in /var/log.

  (Oh great! I have never noticed apt-get's term.logs before!)

- How often did you reboot the system after the upgrade from lenny to
  squeeze? I am not interested in the exact number, I just want to
  ensure you did it at all. :)

- How did you configure the secondary controller? AHCI?

- Have you tried shuffling your disks around? Does the system respond
  differently depending on the controller for / or /boot?

 If you are under the impression that every package needs to pass
 coordinated QA testing before it enters stable, then you are wrong.
 
 I followed quite a time several debian MLs and yes, my opinion from reading 
 the discussion between developers was, that debian has a coordinated QA 
 testing.

Well, the term coordinated might be a bit misleading. What I meant
was: I don't expect the grub maintainers (or any other DD) to
systematically test their package with various different hardware
configurations, filesystems etc. I guess they grab the release tarball
from upstream, patch it a little bit, compile it locally and in the best
case they test on their local machine (which might be a simple virtual
machine). Then they upload it to sid (or experimental, if they expect
alpha quality) and hope upstream didn't release total junk.

This is pure speculation and I may be wrong on that specific example.
But that's the general process as far as I understand it. The rest is
done by the user/developer community running sid or testing.

 If nobody tested your setup using testing or sid, then you are basically
 out of luck.
 
 I had the same issue when squeeze was testing and I reported it to this ML. 
 But most comments leaded to my own problem.

It's always great to see how fast mailing list mirrors and search
engines catch up new posts. :)

 No one was willing to accept, that there's a big issue with grub.

Oh, there are definitely issues. It probably wouldn't be part of so many
distributions if grub legacy was still maintained.

 ... and the installer? Crashes on installing, when /usr and /var are
 different partitions which should not be formatted. Huh???
 
 This looks like a separate issue which you might want to report against
 debian-installer. BTW, using unformatted /var and/or /usr for a fresh
 installation looks like a bad idea to me.
 
 So, may be you can guide me to a better use case, when the system is broken 
 and the machine does not work any more. 

Well, I am not too proficient in these things either. I throw my
problems at Google like everyone else. :) But installing a new system on
top of an old one wasn't a good idea when I still used Windows 95 (good
riddance) and it still isn't a good idea today. /usr may contain
binaries which the system doesn't know about and thus don't receive
security updates. And /var contains system-specific data like dpkg's
database that you don't want to re-use on a new installation.

But anyway: if you have a reliable way of crashing the

Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?

2011-03-21 Thread Scott Ferguson

On 22/03/11 04:53, Geronimo wrote:
Hello,

Jochen Schulz wrote:
Geronimo:
the last update of debian broke my system completely!

I am very sorry for your wasted time and loss of data. I see why you
need to let off steam.

Thank you very much! - usually I'm not that coarse.

The language doesn't offend - but this list goes out over radio where
that language breaks the law.
A tirade without any useful information on the actual problem does
offend (especially around midnight).

Nevertheless I think this threads leads nowhere unless you are more specific
about the hardware in use and what kind of upgrade you actually ran. Instead
of insulting Debian developers you could try to help them get the problem
fixed (or make them aware in the first place).

Running through the gun club yelling fire will get you attention, but
not the assistance you wish.

... and now a system breaks on the fact of having an external SATA-
controller?!? Is that really so exotic, that no one tests that, before
moving packages into stable?

You'll find the grub(2) developers would, if they could.
The firmware is part of the issue
See the first couple of results from this:-

http://www.google.com/search?q=RocketRAID+230hl=ennum=10lr=lang_enft=icr=safe=offbtnmeta%3Dsearch%3Dlinux=tbs=qdr:y

Kudos for not dumping and running.

Aside from the other worthy suggestions made by more informed posters
than myself - there is grub-legacy.

Note:- my upgrade experiences have not been trouble-free - I was cursing
the lack of documentation on kde-plasma-netbook until dawn. But I have
not upgraded my main work machines, and will not for while security
updates continue - a lesson learned back in the floppy install days.

And, as I'm sure you've been told, stable means feature frozen - not
perfect or error free. Sometimes it's just a way to force developers to
pay attention to bug-reports instead of endlessly adding new features
(ie no more moving the f*#ing goal posts)

Cheers

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Re: What happened to debian - does stable keep having any meaning?