Re: Wich Debian system with Intel Core 2 CPU: i386 or amd64?
On Sun, Dec 23, 2007 at 12:35:45PM +, Paul Csanyi wrote: > I have installed Debian Etch on my hardware with Intel Core 2 CPU. > > In the repository I have linux-image-2.6.18-5-amd64 and now I have it > installed. > > I think I can use it with Debian Etch system, and don't must download and > install the debian amd64 distribution, right? > > For what reason should I download and install debian amd64 distribution? > Whether to use amd64, i386 with a 64-bit kernel, or i386 with a 32-bit kernel totally depends on what you want to do. Whether you get a performance increase with amd64 depends on what you are running and how much memory you want to use. If you want to use e.g. nVidia binary video module, you are limited to either amd64 or i386 with a 32-bit kernel. If you have more than 2-3 GB ram, you need amd64. If your software will speed up with more registers, use amd64. If your box is only to be used for web-browising flash-required sites, just use i386. For Etch, you can't run flash (only available as a 32-bit plugin) with a 64-bit browser. For Lenny, there is a wrapper to allow this. For me, on Etch, the best answer is to use amd64 for most things, then I set up an i386 chroot that has the iceweasel browser + flash, and run it with schroot. Very slick. Whether you notice any of the speed differences between them depends on what you do. The only thing that I do to put my CPU usage over 10% (i.e. less than 90% idle) for more than 2 seconds, is run top with an interval of 0.1 seconds, gzip my backup tarball, or resize and enhance a thumbnail to 1024x768 in DigiKam. I hope this helps you to decide. More info can be found on the Debian-amd64 list archives. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wich Debian system with Intel Core 2 CPU: i386 or amd64?
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:25:17 -0430
Jose Luis Rivas Contreras <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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> Micha wrote:
>
> > Using 64 bit has more memory overhead and no performance advantage for most
> > stuff (even performance decrease for some stuff). Also not everything is
> > available for 64 bit yet.
>
> Like what? You make it sound as if there were a lot of software that you
> can't use in 64bit, I just know of the java plugin, the rest I'm using
> it right now.
Not a lot, just a little, and you can get most of it to work, although you may
need the 32 bit libraries installed as well.
flash is said cause problems, although it works for me (possibly with the 32bit
libraries). Not all video codecs for mplayer are available. Skype takes some
work to install. texmacs requires a recompilation or it segfaults. skype was a
bit of a pain. Some propriatry things like mathematica and matlab require the
latest versions, intel ipp and mkl require the 64bit versions.
Like I said, most things work, but some may cause problems or take some pushing
and tweaking.
The bigger issue is the memory overhead which, depending on your requirements
and used software is the bigger issue.
> >>
> >> I think I can use it with Debian Etch system, and don't must download and
> >> install the debian amd64 distribution, right?
> >>
> >> For what reason should I download and install debian amd64 distribution?
>
> Well you're using a 64bit kernel with a 32bit userland, obviously in
> some moment is gonna give you problems specially when installing kernel
> modules compiled in a 686 and you're using a 64bit, so if you want to
> use adm64 I suggest to install all the port amd64, not only the kernel.
>
> Regards.
> - --
> Jose Luis Rivas. San Cristóbal, Venezuela. PGP: 0xCACAB118
> http://ghostbar.ath.cx/{about,acerca} - http://debian.org.ve
> `ghostbar' @ irc.debian.org/#debian-ve,#debian-devel-es
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Re: Wich Debian system with Intel Core 2 CPU: i386 or amd64?
On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:04:43 -0500 Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Micha wrote: > > unless you are doing memory intensive calculations or have a lot of memory > > (I would say that probably 3+ GB although some say more), you're probably > > better of with the i386 distribution. > > The i386 architecture is famously scarce of general-purpose registers. > This, combined with amd64 binaries being compiled optimised for a modern > cpu instead of a 486 (i386 doesn't actually run on 386's anymore), are > good reasons to expect better performance from amd64. > If you look at the benchmarks you will see that performance gain is marginal and sometimes there is even a performance loss. Did some research before deciding. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wich Debian system with Intel Core 2 CPU: i386 or amd64?
On 2007-12-23 17:39 +0100, Paul Csanyi wrote: > OK but I try to use Debian Etch i386 arch with linux-image-2.6-amd64. > I think I must use this linux-image because of my Intel Core 2 CPU. No, linux-image-2.6-686 would just work fine. In fact, it would spare you from the mess with the Nvidia modules you get here. > So I try to install nvidia driver for my nvidia card (from lspci) > nVidia Corporation G70 [GeForce 7600 GT] > > but get an error message: > > > module-assistant, interactive mode > Build of the package nvidia-kernel-source failed! > How do you wish to proceed? > VIEW Examine the build log file > OK > ... > LD [M] /usr/src/modules/nvidia-kernel/nv/nvidia.o > ld: Relocatable linking with relocations from format elf32-i386 \ > (/usr/src/modules/nvidia-kernel/nv/nv-kernel.o) to format \ > elf64-x86-64 (/usr/src/modules/nvidia-kernel/nv/nvidia.o) is not \ > supported > make[4]: *** [/usr/src/modules/nvidia-kernel/nv/nvidia.o] Error 1 > make[3]: *** [_module_/usr/src/modules/nvidia-kernel/nv] Error 2 > make[3]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.18-5-amd64' > NVIDIA: left KBUILD. > nvidia.ko failed to build! > make[2]: *** [mdl] Error 1 > make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/modules/nvidia-kernel/nv' > make[1]: *** [build-stamp] Error 2 > make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/modules/nvidia-kernel' > make: *** [kdist_image] Error 2 > < > > What this error mean? It means that you have rediscovered bug 437128¹. This is probably unfixable, since the nvidia-kernel-"source" consists mainly of a big object file that is compiled for i386, not amd64. > Must I leave the i386 arch and install amd64 before can proceed with > nvidia install? You may try to install the amd64 version of nvidia-kernel-source with "dpkg --force-architecture" and see if m-a works then. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK! Regards, Sven ¹ http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=437128 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wich Debian system with Intel Core 2 CPU: i386 or amd64?
Micha wrote: > unless you are doing memory intensive calculations or have a lot of memory (I > would say that probably 3+ GB although some say more), you're probably better > of with the i386 distribution. The i386 architecture is famously scarce of general-purpose registers. This, combined with amd64 binaries being compiled optimised for a modern cpu instead of a 486 (i386 doesn't actually run on 386's anymore), are good reasons to expect better performance from amd64. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Wich Debian system with Intel Core 2 CPU: i386 or amd64?
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Hash: SHA1
Micha wrote:
> Using 64 bit has more memory overhead and no performance advantage for most
> stuff (even performance decrease for some stuff). Also not everything is
> available for 64 bit yet.
Like what? You make it sound as if there were a lot of software that you
can't use in 64bit, I just know of the java plugin, the rest I'm using
it right now.
>>
>> I think I can use it with Debian Etch system, and don't must download and
>> install the debian amd64 distribution, right?
>>
>> For what reason should I download and install debian amd64 distribution?
Well you're using a 64bit kernel with a 32bit userland, obviously in
some moment is gonna give you problems specially when installing kernel
modules compiled in a 686 and you're using a 64bit, so if you want to
use adm64 I suggest to install all the port amd64, not only the kernel.
Regards.
- --
Jose Luis Rivas. San Cristóbal, Venezuela. PGP: 0xCACAB118
http://ghostbar.ath.cx/{about,acerca} - http://debian.org.ve
`ghostbar' @ irc.debian.org/#debian-ve,#debian-devel-es
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Re: Wich Debian system with Intel Core 2 CPU: i386 or amd64?
Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:04:43 +0200 keltezéssel Micha azt írta: >> For what reason should I download and install debian amd64 distribution? > unless you are doing memory intensive calculations or have a lot of > memory (I would say that probably 3+ GB although some say more), you're > probably better of with the i386 distribution. OK but I try to use Debian Etch i386 arch with linux-image-2.6-amd64. I think I must use this linux-image because of my Intel Core 2 CPU. So I try to install nvidia driver for my nvidia card (from lspci) nVidia Corporation G70 [GeForce 7600 GT] but get an error message: > module-assistant, interactive mode Build of the package nvidia-kernel-source failed! How do you wish to proceed? VIEW Examine the build log file OK ... LD [M] /usr/src/modules/nvidia-kernel/nv/nvidia.o ld: Relocatable linking with relocations from format elf32-i386 \ (/usr/src/modules/nvidia-kernel/nv/nv-kernel.o) to format \ elf64-x86-64 (/usr/src/modules/nvidia-kernel/nv/nvidia.o) is not \ supported make[4]: *** [/usr/src/modules/nvidia-kernel/nv/nvidia.o] Error 1 make[3]: *** [_module_/usr/src/modules/nvidia-kernel/nv] Error 2 make[3]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.18-5-amd64' NVIDIA: left KBUILD. nvidia.ko failed to build! make[2]: *** [mdl] Error 1 make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/modules/nvidia-kernel/nv' make[1]: *** [build-stamp] Error 2 make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/modules/nvidia-kernel' make: *** [kdist_image] Error 2 < What this error mean? Must I leave the i386 arch and install amd64 before can proceed with nvidia install? -- Regards, Paul Csanyi http://www.freewebs.com/csanyi-pal/index.htm -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wich Debian system with Intel Core 2 CPU: i386 or amd64?
unless you are doing memory intensive calculations or have a lot of memory (I would say that probably 3+ GB although some say more), you're probably better of with the i386 distribution. Using 64 bit has more memory overhead and no performance advantage for most stuff (even performance decrease for some stuff). Also not everything is available for 64 bit yet. On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:35:45 + (UTC) Paul Csanyi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello! > > I have installed Debian Etch on my hardware with Intel Core 2 CPU. > > In the repository I have linux-image-2.6.18-5-amd64 and now I have it > installed. > > I think I can use it with Debian Etch system, and don't must download and > install the debian amd64 distribution, right? > > For what reason should I download and install debian amd64 distribution? > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Wich Debian system with Intel Core 2 CPU: i386 or amd64?
Hello! I have installed Debian Etch on my hardware with Intel Core 2 CPU. In the repository I have linux-image-2.6.18-5-amd64 and now I have it installed. I think I can use it with Debian Etch system, and don't must download and install the debian amd64 distribution, right? For what reason should I download and install debian amd64 distribution? -- Regards, Paul Csanyi http://www.freewebs.com/csanyi-pal/index.htm -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
