Re: Windows on VMware on Deb 11: safely usable?

[john doe]

On 9/1/2022 4:28 PM, Tom Browder wrote:

On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 1:26 PM john doe  wrote:
...

So I will try Debian 11's packages "qemu-kvm" and "aqemu" and install
Windows 10" as a test on my current main host, but only if I can remove all
if I need to and if it will not interfere with my smooth running setup. Is

...

If you go with Libvirt, you can remove everything if you so choose by
doing something like:
$ apt-get --autoremove purge libvirt


So I should install package libvrt and that's all I need? Will it
bring in all the other packages mentioned above?



No sorry there is no libvirt pkg in Debian, I used the wiki [1] to get
me going.

If you want to purge, you should substitute the libvirt pkg above by
'qemu-system libvirt-daemon-system'.

If you also add virt-manager or virt-inst, you will need to also add
those on the command line.


[1] https://wiki.debian.org/KVM#Installation

--
John Doe

Re: Windows on VMware on Deb 11: safely usable?

[Porter Smith]

You should be able to do that, however the main restricting factor is your host 
machines number of virtual  Threads (cps)  in addition to the amount of 
physical memory or ram that your  main board has available to use which is 
usually decreased due to your host ps and also the professor also used some 
threads for housekeeping tasks such as   managing memory and data bus  
maintenance. 

On September 1, 2022 9:19:39 AM PDT, "Махно"  
wrote:
>Helli. You need to install these packages. As root (or sudo) apt
>install qemu-kvm libvirt-clients libvirt-daemon libvirt-daemon-system
>bridge-utils virtinst virt-manager. It is a good idea to add your user
>to libvirt and ibvirt-qemu groups. As root (or sudo) #adduser username
>libvirt #adduser username libvirt-qemu. Also reboot is required.
>
>2022-09-01, kt, 17:29 Tom Browder  rašė:
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 1:26 PM john doe  wrote:
>> ...
>> > > So I will try Debian 11's packages "qemu-kvm" and "aqemu" and install
>> > > Windows 10" as a test on my current main host, but only if I can remove 
>> > > all
>> > > if I need to and if it will not interfere with my smooth running setup. 
>> > > Is
>> ...
>> > If you go with Libvirt, you can remove everything if you so choose by
>> > doing something like:
>> > $ apt-get --autoremove purge libvirt
>>
>> So I should install package libvrt and that's all I need? Will it
>> bring in all the other packages mentioned above?
>>
>> -Tom
>>
>

Re: Windows on VMware on Deb 11: safely usable?

[Tom Browder]

On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 11:19 Махно  wrote:

> Helli. You need to install these packages. As

…

Thank you very much!

-Tom

Re: Windows on VMware on Deb 11: safely usable?

[Махно]

Helli. You need to install these packages. As root (or sudo) apt
install qemu-kvm libvirt-clients libvirt-daemon libvirt-daemon-system
bridge-utils virtinst virt-manager. It is a good idea to add your user
to libvirt and ibvirt-qemu groups. As root (or sudo) #adduser username
libvirt #adduser username libvirt-qemu. Also reboot is required.

2022-09-01, kt, 17:29 Tom Browder  rašė:
>
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 1:26 PM john doe  wrote:
> ...
> > > So I will try Debian 11's packages "qemu-kvm" and "aqemu" and install
> > > Windows 10" as a test on my current main host, but only if I can remove 
> > > all
> > > if I need to and if it will not interfere with my smooth running setup. Is
> ...
> > If you go with Libvirt, you can remove everything if you so choose by
> > doing something like:
> > $ apt-get --autoremove purge libvirt
>
> So I should install package libvrt and that's all I need? Will it
> bring in all the other packages mentioned above?
>
> -Tom
>

Re: Windows on VMware on Deb 11: safely usable?

[Tom Browder]

On Mon, Aug 22, 2022 at 1:26 PM john doe  wrote:
...
> > So I will try Debian 11's packages "qemu-kvm" and "aqemu" and install
> > Windows 10" as a test on my current main host, but only if I can remove all
> > if I need to and if it will not interfere with my smooth running setup. Is
...
> If you go with Libvirt, you can remove everything if you so choose by
> doing something like:
> $ apt-get --autoremove purge libvirt

So I should install package libvrt and that's all I need? Will it
bring in all the other packages mentioned above?

-Tom

Re: Windows on VMware on Deb 11: safely usable?

[john doe]

On 8/22/2022 2:41 PM, Tom Browder wrote:

On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 21:39 step...@gmail.com  wrote:


On 8/17/22 19:35, Stefan Monnier wrote:

Tom Browder [2022-08-17 05:53:05] wrote:

I would love to run Windows on a VM on Debian iff I can have it be

reliable

enough to use with reasonable response (no games, just Office 360, IO
Drive, H Block, and such). I haven't kept up with the VM world but a
quick search shows VMware might be a good choice.


Last I had to run a Windows VM I used kvm (aka Qemu) and that worked
very nicely.  It's easy to install (it's in the Debian repositories),
very featureful, and used for "real systems" (tho in my case I always
used it very punctually to run some specific tool only available in
Windows).


Yep; same. Ran multiple windows vms in kvm (libvirt/qemu). Stable and
solid.



So I will try Debian 11's packages "qemu-kvm" and "aqemu" and install
Windows 10" as a test on my current main host, but only if I can remove all
if I need to and if it will not interfere with my smooth running setup. Is
that true?

>

Impossible to answer as we do not know what 'will not interfere with my
smooth running setup' implies.

If you go with Libvirt, you can remove everything if you so choose by
doing something like:

$ apt-get --autoremove purge libvirt


When you get the hang of it I'm pretty sure that you won't go back! :)

--
John Doe

Re: Windows on VMware on Deb 11: safely usable?

[Bob Weber]

On 8/22/22 08:41, Tom Browder wrote:

On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 21:39 step...@gmail.com  wrote:

On 8/17/22 19:35, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> Tom Browder [2022-08-17 05:53:05] wrote:
>> I would love to run Windows on a VM on Debian iff I can have it be 
reliable
>> enough to use with reasonable response (no games, just Office 360, IO
>> Drive, H Block, and such). I haven't kept up with the VM world but a
>> quick search shows VMware might be a good choice.
>
> Last I had to run a Windows VM I used kvm (aka Qemu) and that worked
> very nicely.  It's easy to install (it's in the Debian repositories),
> very featureful, and used for "real systems" (tho in my case I always
> used it very punctually to run some specific tool only available in
> Windows).

Yep; same. Ran multiple windows vms in kvm (libvirt/qemu). Stable and solid.


So I will try Debian 11's packages "qemu-kvm" and "aqemu" and install Windows 
10" as a test on my current main host, but only if I can remove all if I need 
to and if it will not interfere with my smooth running setup. Is that true?


Note if I proceed and need help, I will start a new thread.

-Tom


Why not try virt-manager package.  At least it is updated recently.  
See:https://virt-manager.org/ for details. It even runs VMs on remote machines 
over ssh ... a function I've used before.


When you run a VM it displays it in a window with full graphics and mouse 
support.  I have 20 or so VMs ... even several Windows 10 ... to try updates for 
Debian testing before I commit them to my main host machine.  You can easily set 
the number of CPUs, memory, disk space, graphics, network and more for the VM.  
You can pass USB devices to the VM all through virt-manager.


I have run a weather station in a Debian VM for over 8 years with little 
problem.

I am running a 10+ year old AMD 6 core CPU with 24GB memory.  Windows 10 seems 
to run fine with 5GB of memory.



--


*...Bob*

Re: Windows on VMware on Deb 11: safely usable?

[Tom Browder]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 21:39 step...@gmail.com  wrote:

> On 8/17/22 19:35, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > Tom Browder [2022-08-17 05:53:05] wrote:
> >> I would love to run Windows on a VM on Debian iff I can have it be
> reliable
> >> enough to use with reasonable response (no games, just Office 360, IO
> >> Drive, H Block, and such). I haven't kept up with the VM world but a
> >> quick search shows VMware might be a good choice.
> >
> > Last I had to run a Windows VM I used kvm (aka Qemu) and that worked
> > very nicely.  It's easy to install (it's in the Debian repositories),
> > very featureful, and used for "real systems" (tho in my case I always
> > used it very punctually to run some specific tool only available in
> > Windows).
>
> Yep; same. Ran multiple windows vms in kvm (libvirt/qemu). Stable and
> solid.


So I will try Debian 11's packages "qemu-kvm" and "aqemu" and install
Windows 10" as a test on my current main host, but only if I can remove all
if I need to and if it will not interfere with my smooth running setup. Is
that true?

Note if I proceed and need help, I will start a new thread.

-Tom

Re: Windows on VMware on Deb 11: safely usable?

[Jeremy Ardley]

On 18/8/22 7:48 pm, Jeremy Nicoll wrote:

On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, at 12:38, Jeremy Ardley wrote:


As an aside, a Windows host for a client sucks big time. Windows will
automatically restart periodically no matter what you do to prevent it.

How often does that happen?

I only ask because it doesn't for my pretty much always-on W8.1 laptop.

I /choose/ to cold restart it every few weeks, when I remember, but it's
not happening at random.

No Windows Updates get installed automatically on that machine.

I believe though that managing this gets harder on W10/W11 especially
if one does not have the "Pro" or "Enterprise" versions of the OS.



I use Windows 11, and previously Windows 10. I run a Windows 7 client 
because due to purely evil 'licensing' by Reckon I am unable to move 
software I have bought to any other system. Luckily I figured this was 
likely years ago and did the install on a VM (which is also banned by 
Reckon, but needs must)


I have followed any number of recipes to stop the Windows host reboot 
but none work; and I'm pretty sure Microsoft has a team plugging any 
work-arounds in near real-time. You may well be right that Enterprise 
managed systems don't have the same problem.


With regard to runing Windows clients, there may be restrictions on the 
version of client you can put in a VM - such as OEM versions may not be 
legally installed on a VM. The rules have changed over time and I don't 
guarantee to be up to date on which are presently applicable.



--
Jeremy



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Re: Windows on VMware on Deb 11: safely usable?

[Jeremy Nicoll]

On Wed, 17 Aug 2022, at 12:38, Jeremy Ardley wrote:

> As an aside, a Windows host for a client sucks big time. Windows will 
> automatically restart periodically no matter what you do to prevent it. 

How often does that happen?

I only ask because it doesn't for my pretty much always-on W8.1 laptop.

I /choose/ to cold restart it every few weeks, when I remember, but it's
not happening at random.

No Windows Updates get installed automatically on that machine.

I believe though that managing this gets harder on W10/W11 especially
if one does not have the "Pro" or "Enterprise" versions of the OS.

-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Re: Windows on VMware on Deb 11: safely usable?

[step...@gmail.com]

On 8/17/22 19:35, Stefan Monnier wrote:

Tom Browder [2022-08-17 05:53:05] wrote:

I would love to run Windows on a VM on Debian iff I can have it be reliable
enough to use with reasonable response (no games, just Office 360, IO
Drive, H Block, and such). I haven't kept up with the VM world but a
quick search shows VMware might be a good choice.


Last I had to run a Windows VM I used kvm (aka Qemu) and that worked
very nicely.  It's easy to install (it's in the Debian repositories),
very featureful, and used for "real systems" (tho in my case I always
used it very punctually to run some specific tool only available in
Windows).


Yep; same. Ran multiple windows vms in kvm (libvirt/qemu). Stable and solid.

Re: Windows on VMware on Deb 11: safely usable?

[Tom Browder]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 11:32 AM hdv@gmail  wrote:
>
> On 2022-08-17 17:06, Tom Browder wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 09:34 hdv@gmail  > > wrote:
> >
> > On 2022-08-17 12:53, Tom Browder wrote:
> >
> > …
> >
> >  > I would love to run Windows on a VM on Debian iff I can have it be
> >  > reliable enough to use with reasonable response (no games, just
> > Office
> >  > 360, IO Drive, H Block, and such). I
> >
> > …
> >
> > As for VMWare: when I still used it, a major disadvantage was that you
> > had to fuss around with the kernel every time there was an update. That
> > really was a major PITA. I don't know if that still is the case with
> > VMWare, but I do know I have no such trouble with libvirt. At all.
> >
> >
> > So far, at least with Debian, I’m leaning toward libvrt.
> >
> > For us vm green beans, can I run the libvrt Windows vm, on Debian, and
> > get the regular Win desktop view I’m used to? Should I dedicate a
> > separate physical SSD for it?
>
> You can run libvirt on any Debian version you want. Then install Windows
> in that host. It will work just as you are used to. I have 2TB set aside
> as a dedicated partition for 3 instances of Windows (different
> installations for my students to develop and hack on). I also use WinSCP
> to transfer files between the host and the different guests. That proved
> to be the easiest and most dependable manner to exchange files.
>
> P.S. Please keep it on the list. That way others can benefit from your
> questions too.
>
> Grx HdV

I'm sorry, failure to reply to the list was an accident.

Re: Windows on VMware on Deb 11: safely usable?

[Chuck Zmudzinski]

On 8/17/2022 10:34 AM, hdv@gmail wrote:
> On 2022-08-17 12:53, Tom Browder wrote:
> > Unfortunately, I have to have a Windows host. I have given up dual 
> > hosting because of the pain, so I am using a dedicated Win 10 box and a 
> > Deb laptop.
> > 
> > I would love to run Windows on a VM on Debian iff I can have it be 
> > reliable enough to use with reasonable response (no games, just Office 
> > 360, IO Drive, H Block, and such). I haven't kept up with the VM world 
> > but a quick search shows VMware might be a good choice.
> > 
> > Anyone using such a rig for the real world (i.e., not testing or as a 
> > hobby)? If it is reliable, I plan to get a hefty SilentPC to run my 
> > primary digital duopoly.
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > 
> > -Tom
>
> Please note that VirtualBox isn't in the official repository. There is a 
> reason for that: Oracle won't/can't cooperate with the Debian Security Team.
>
> As for VMWare: when I still used it, a major disadvantage was that you 
> had to fuss around with the kernel every time there was an update. That 
> really was a major PITA. I don't know if that still is the case with 
> VMWare, but I do know I have no such trouble with libvirt. At all.

I don't see much discussion about libvirt on debian-use, which I presume is
KVM/Qemu VMs. That means one of two things: either 1) no one is using it, or
2) it works so well it is good enough for the real world and no one needs to ask
questions about it on debian-user.

My advice - buy your Silent PC, Install Debian on it, and use KVM/Qemu on it
to install Windows. That will use supported Debian free software to provide the
virtualization environment for your Windows installation. If for some reason
KVM/Qemu/libvirt does not work, then install Windows Pro on the Silent PC
and run Debian in Hyper-V. AFAIK, MS fully supports Debian in Hyper-V, and that
would also most likely be a reliable setup also for the real world to run 
Debian 11
and Windows 10/11 simultaneously.

Chuck

Re: Windows on VMware on Deb 11: safely usable?

[hdv@gmail]

On 2022-08-17 12:53, Tom Browder wrote:
Unfortunately, I have to have a Windows host. I have given up dual 
hosting because of the pain, so I am using a dedicated Win 10 box and a 
Deb laptop.


I would love to run Windows on a VM on Debian iff I can have it be 
reliable enough to use with reasonable response (no games, just Office 
360, IO Drive, H Block, and such). I haven't kept up with the VM world 
but a quick search shows VMware might be a good choice.


Anyone using such a rig for the real world (i.e., not testing or as a 
hobby)? If it is reliable, I plan to get a hefty SilentPC to run my 
primary digital duopoly.


Thanks.

-Tom


Please note that VirtualBox isn't in the official repository. There is a 
reason for that: Oracle won't/can't cooperate with the Debian Security Team.


As for VMWare: when I still used it, a major disadvantage was that you 
had to fuss around with the kernel every time there was an update. That 
really was a major PITA. I don't know if that still is the case with 
VMWare, but I do know I have no such trouble with libvirt. At all.


Grx HdV

Re: Windows on VMware on Deb 11: safely usable?

[Chuck Zmudzinski]

On 8/17/2022 6:53 AM, Tom Browder wrote:
> Unfortunately, I have to have a Windows host. I have given up dual hosting 
> because of the pain, so I am using a dedicated Win 10 box and a Deb laptop.
>
> I would love to run Windows on a VM on Debian iff I can have it be reliable 
> enough to use with reasonable response (no games, just Office 360, IO Drive, 
> H Block, and such). I haven't kept up with the VM world but a quick search 
> shows VMware might be a good choice.
>
> Anyone using such a rig for the real world (i.e., not testing or as a hobby)? 
> If it is reliable, I plan to get a hefty SilentPC to run my primary digital 
> duopoly.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -Tom

I have this working now with Xen/Qemu, Deb 11, and Windows 10, but I would not 
recommend
that for the real world, since sometimes updates and such break it. I don't 
know about VMware
on Debian, I suppose it might work, you can inquire with VMware to see how much 
support they
provide for VMware on Debian. Also, KVM/Qemu users might be able to weigh in 
with how
viable that is as an option to run Windows in a VM on Debian for the real word. 
And the
other option I know about is Virtualbox, which I also think can run on Debian 
and supports
Windows VMs.

Best regards,

Chuck

Re: Windows on VMware on Deb 11: safely usable?

[Timothy M Butterworth]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 6:53 AM Tom Browder  wrote:

> Unfortunately, I have to have a Windows host. I have given up dual hosting
> because of the pain, so I am using a dedicated Win 10 box and a Deb laptop.
>
> I would love to run Windows on a VM on Debian iff I can have it be
> reliable enough to use with reasonable response (no games, just Office 360,
> IO Drive, H Block, and such). I haven't kept up with the VM world but a
> quick search shows VMware might be a good choice.
>
> Anyone using such a rig for the real world (i.e., not testing or as a
> hobby)? If it is reliable, I plan to get a hefty SilentPC to run my primary
> digital duopoly.
>
> I have a Windows VM installed in VirtualBox. It works well with guest
extensions.  I have no complaints.


> Thanks.
>
> -Tom
>


-- 
⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/
⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀

Re: Windows on VMware on Deb 11: safely usable?

[Tom Browder]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 06:01 Marco  wrote:

> Am 17. Aug 2022, um 05:53:05 Uhr schrieb Tom Browder:
>
> > I would love to run Windows on a VM on Debian iff I can have it be
> > reliable enough to use with reasonable response (no games, just
> > Office 360, IO Drive, H Block, and such). I haven't kept up with
> > the VM world but a quick search shows VMware might be a good choice.
>
> I have used Windows VMs for years. It is reliable.


And which VM are you using?

-Tom

Re: Windows on VMware on Deb 11: safely usable?

[hdv@gmail]

On 2022-08-17 12:53, Tom Browder wrote:
Unfortunately, I have to have a Windows host. I have given up dual 
hosting because of the pain, so I am using a dedicated Win 10 box and a 
Deb laptop.


I would love to run Windows on a VM on Debian iff I can have it be 
reliable enough to use with reasonable response (no games, just Office 
360, IO Drive, H Block, and such). I haven't kept up with the VM world 
but a quick search shows VMware might be a good choice.


Anyone using such a rig for the real world (i.e., not testing or as a 
hobby)? If it is reliable, I plan to get a hefty SilentPC to run my 
primary digital duopoly.


Thanks.

-Tom


I used to run Windows in a commercially licensed VMWare environment for 
my business. I also have used VirtualBox for years for the same purpose. 
However, a couple of years back I switched to libvirt and never had any 
problems with it (that weren't of my own doing).


It *does* take a bit more time to really understand all the features, 
but it is worth your time. There is good documentation available, but I 
had to read some of it multiple times to get my head around it. Not 
because the docs were bad, but it is complex and written for people that 
already do have some experience in that area (I feel). There is a 
separate GUI, if you think that suits your needs (with the imaginative 
name Virtual Machine Manager).


I run a fully patched Windows 10 Pro in libvirt at the moment on a 
machine with 32 cores and 64 GB of RAM and it is speedy and stable 
enough for my needs (hosting a learning environment for my students).


I'd say: give it a go!

Grx HdV

Re: Windows on VMware on Deb 11: safely usable?

[Jeremy Ardley]

I have Windows client on Debian and Windows Hosts using Virtualbox. I 
don't think there is much difference to VMWare for simple client hosting.


When the client is fully 'settled in' performance is perfectly adequate. 
Where it runs into problems is saving state and restoring. That is 
pretty fast, but if you save state and restore a few days later the 
client performance is abysmal for some time as the client goes through 
lots of housekeeping, scanning etc to get up to date. I generally 
restore it and go off and do something else for 30 minutes.


As an aside, a Windows host for a client sucks big time. Windows will 
automatically restart periodically no matter what you do to prevent it. 
When it does it's likely to smash the client and lose whatever you were 
doing.


On 17/8/22 6:53 pm, Tom Browder wrote:

Unfortunately, I have to have a Windows host. I have given up dual 
hosting because of the pain, so I am using a dedicated Win 10 box and 
a Deb laptop.


I would love to run Windows on a VM on Debian iff I can have it be 
reliable enough to use with reasonable response (no games, just Office 
360, IO Drive, H Block, and such). I haven't kept up with the VM 
world but a quick search shows VMware might be a good choice.


Anyone using such a rig for the real world (i.e., not testing or as a 
hobby)? If it is reliable, I plan to get a hefty SilentPC to run my 
primary digital duopoly.


Thanks.

-Tom

--
Jeremy



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Re: Windows on VMware on Deb 11: safely usable?

[Marco]

Am 17. Aug 2022, um 05:53:05 Uhr schrieb Tom Browder:

> I would love to run Windows on a VM on Debian iff I can have it be
> reliable enough to use with reasonable response (no games, just
> Office 360, IO Drive, H Block, and such). I haven't kept up with
> the VM world but a quick search shows VMware might be a good choice.

I have used Windows VMs for years. It is reliable.

Windows on VMware on Deb 11: safely usable?

[Tom Browder]

Unfortunately, I have to have a Windows host. I have given up dual hosting
because of the pain, so I am using a dedicated Win 10 box and a Deb laptop.

I would love to run Windows on a VM on Debian iff I can have it be reliable
enough to use with reasonable response (no games, just Office 360, IO
Drive, H Block, and such). I haven't kept up with the VM world but a
quick search shows VMware might be a good choice.

Anyone using such a rig for the real world (i.e., not testing or as a
hobby)? If it is reliable, I plan to get a hefty SilentPC to run my primary
digital duopoly.

Thanks.

-Tom