Re: Woody Progress
Raphael Deimel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Sorry, delayed reaction ...) From: Scott Patterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3. new installer - someone else mentioned it, but this is a definite in my book called deity, imho definitely a must (dselect drives me nuts when i'm searching for packages ;) No, deity is the old name for apt. The installer Scott's talking about isn't part of the package management system; instead it's the replacement for boot-floppies, which installs a base Debian system from floppies (erk), CDs, the net, whatever. See the archives of debian-boot for more information. Incidentally, I doubt woody will particularly be waiting for gcc 3.0. If it's released in time, all well and good, but everything I've heard suggests it's a good way off yet. -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woody Progress
On Mon, Dec 04, 2000 at 06:19:19PM +0100, Raphael Deimel wrote: btw. woody is unstable, so 2.4.0 will probably be the standard-kernel very soon How do you come to that conclusion? Cheers, Tom -- Houdini escaping from New Jersey! Film at eleven.
Re: Woody Progress
In closing, I'd like to ask another (related) question. Is there some particular piece of software that you think Woody is waiting for that will be here in a years time? GCC 3.0 perhaps? 1. GCC 3.0 - good call 2. Kernel 2.4 - add a couple releases after the initail release to stabilize it even more 3. new installer - someone else mentioned it, but this is a definite in my book Most of the other stuff is not so important, IMHO. GNOME and KDE are not vital to have a system up and running. XF4 is questionable. Many people run X, so, this could be considered important. In the meantime, XF4 keeps getting better with more drivers as well as improved/optimized drivers. Wasn't there also discussion for more features/changes to the package management system? I'd guess 1-3 months after ALL of those three items are released is when they'll (the debain gods) start to plan a freeze. Of course, it could be a year beyond that the freeze will even complete! Until then, enjoy Woody:) Scott PS: Don't quote me on any of this as I'm just speculating.
Re: Woody Progress
- Original Message - From: Scott Patterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 4:22 PM Subject: Re: Woody Progress 2. Kernel 2.4 - add a couple releases after the initail release to stabilize it even more I already run Woody with 2.4test kernel, the only problem i found til now is the lacking vendor-side accelleration support of my goood old TNT2 :( btw. woody is unstable, so 2.4.0 will probably be the standard-kernel very soon 3. new installer - someone else mentioned it, but this is a definite in my book called deity, imho definitely a must (dselect drives me nuts when i'm searching for packages ;) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Woody Progress
On Sun, Dec 03, 2000 at 11:31:30AM -0700, Rando Christensen wrote: On Sun, 3 Dec 2000, Richard Taylor wrote: ObDisclaimer: IANADD First off, I would like to apologize if this is not the right list to ask this question, and secondly, I would like to apologize if it is not appropriate for a non-developer to ask this question. I have been impressed with the progress of woody recently, to the point where I now keep it installed myself, for the fun of experimenting with XF86 4, and what I would like to know is: Does anyone have any theories as to when the code freeze will start. I mean, getting a new realease out, with KDE 2 packaged and ready to go, plus XF86 4, would do a lot to restore the Debian Project in the eyes of joe-average linux-user. The problem with this line of thinking, i think, is that debian isn't aimed toward 'joe-average linux-user' .. It's aimed really towards the debian developers, and others like them. Debian isn't trying to restore themselves, in anyone's eyes. they are going forward as they feel correct. Ok, if Debian is not aimed at Joe, then why do we bother having a mailing list where we discuss publicity for the system. I mean, isn't what you are saying, that we should just stick with the users that we have got? If you are, then I, for one, cannot agree with you. The big difference between debian and alll those other distro's (possibly slack excluded), is that the debian project will go forward when nobody gets a paycheck. Debian is (probably) the biggest volunteer software project in the world. Most linux distributions are in it for the money Just my thoughts. *gets into asbestos suit* Before you all jump on me, the Debian linux distro has somewhat of a reputation for being behind the times, due to it's long and rigorous testing process. Personally, I prefer this, and the extended testing period is one I prefer it, too. in fact, I wouldn't give it up. Clarification: I don't prefer the fact that in some cases we trail two or three minor revisions from the upstream source. I am for testing just as much as anyone else... but I do think that rublic relations should be a concern too, as should staying on the cutting edge. of many reasons Debian is the only linux I use. Also, those of us who read the lists understand what the reasons are, and to my mind, they were sound, but up until recently, the `man on the street' still sees us as the last distro to not have KDE. And it's a true statement. But, IMHO, Kde is crap anyway. ;) But as I keep trying to explain, the views of you and others like you matter - they matter a lot, but so do the views of Joe Average... IMHO, of course. He doesnt care about ideology, and while right has won out in the end, it But we DO care. What does that mean? That debian is NOT for everyone, and he'll be perfectly happy with another distribution. has set our public image back somewhat. Had I the power, I would _not_ change any of the decisions that have brought Debian to where it is now, but to my mind, now would be a good time to consider when the new release will come out. Nah, potato just stabilized. just BARELY. We don't need to rush out with this. I wouldn't even expect seeing the release until at least the end of 2001. and that doesn't even seem likely to me. I can only ask, what do you mean? I wouldn't call it just barely - I admit it was recent, but you know darned well that potato was stable for _months_ before it was officially dubbed stable. I was using it for six months before the release, with not one show-stopping problem. Besides, isn't that the way that it should work. One out, give the next one a month or two, then freeze? I mean a code freeze is _not_ a release, it doesn't mean we stop testing, and it doesn't mean we stop bugfixes. I admit, I could be very wrong here, but another year, before Debian Woody comes out, seems a long time. Potato is a fine release. A FINE release. Woody just has some stuff in it that is far too nice to make users wait a year for. :-) The thing is, debian is NOT going to throw together a distribution release and just call it stable. RedHat would. They consider rh7.0 to be a nice, stable release. Any debian user/developer would SCOFF at that. One hundred percent true, RH7 is a cow. I find it hard to believe they are using a _known to be unstable_ GCC. This would never happen in Debian. I can't disagree with you there. OTOH, I wouldn't call Woody oh-so terribly unstable - not from my personal experience of it, which has been minimal, but you hear developers reccomending it on the debian-user list, if it is needed to solve a specific problem, so my reasoning is that it must be there-or-there-about. When I wrote my first message, I didn't expect to hear `Next week, mate!, but I didn't expect to hear a full year, either. Shame, really. Of course, I'll still keep on
Re: Woody Progress
Sorry folks, my brain must have suffered a power-outage, I have posted the preceding message to the wrong list. Sorry.
Re: Woody Progress
On Sun, 3 Dec 2000, Richard Taylor wrote: of many reasons Debian is the only linux I use. Also, those of us who read the lists understand what the reasons are, and to my mind, they were sound, but up until recently, the `man on the street' still sees us as the last distro to not have KDE. And it's a true statement. But, IMHO, Kde is crap anyway. ;) But as I keep trying to explain, the views of you and others like you matter - they matter a lot, but so do the views of Joe Average... IMHO, of course. Yes, of course their opinions matter. But they're not going to be what's driving debian, simply because 99% of debian developers do things for themselves. That's the way volunteer projects work. So, other things come way before joe averages, simply because joe average isn't working on it. I can only ask, what do you mean? I wouldn't call it just barely - I admit it was recent, but you know darned well that potato was stable for _months_ before it was officially dubbed stable. I was using it for six months before the release, with not one show-stopping problem. Besides, isn't that the way that it should work. One out, give the next one a month or two, then freeze? I mean a code freeze is _not_ a release, it doesn't mean we stop testing, and it doesn't mean we stop bugfixes. I admit, I could be very wrong here, but another year, before Debian Woody comes out, seems a long time. Potato is a fine release. A FINE release. Woody just has some stuff in it that is far too nice to make users wait a year for. :-) I'll take part of that back. I wouldn't mind to see More freezes, and more releases. I think it'd bring more people to Debian, as well as you do. I just don't think that should be the REASON to do it. The thing is, debian is NOT going to throw together a distribution release and just call it stable. RedHat would. They consider rh7.0 to be a nice, stable release. Any debian user/developer would SCOFF at that. One hundred percent true, RH7 is a cow. I find it hard to believe they are using a _known to be unstable_ GCC. This would never happen in Debian. I can't disagree with you there. OTOH, I wouldn't call Woody oh-so terribly unstable - not from my personal experience of it, which has been minimal, but you hear developers reccomending it on the debian-user list, if it is needed to solve a specific problem, so my reasoning is that it must be there-or-there-about. When I wrote my first message, I didn't expect to hear `Next week, mate!, but I didn't expect to hear a full year, either. Shame, really. Of course, I'll still keep on using Debian, and reccomending it to all my friends. I pulled the 'year' idea from earlier posts here... And i wasn't referring to the freeze, but the actual release. In closing, I'd like to ask another (related) question. Is there some particular piece of software that you think Woody is waiting for that will be here in a years time? GCC 3.0 perhaps? Maybe. That's something to consider. Of course, we could save that for the next one. The one that actually pops into my mind for this is the new installer. I'd like to say, though, that I want the freezes/releases to happen more often, but not at the sacrifice of anything else that makes debian debian. /---\ What Am I Doing? I'm Quietly Judging You. --Frank TJ Mackey Rando Christensen / An illuzion worth believing [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] \---/
