X11R6.4 and Debian
From comp.os.linux.development.system This is from the official announce of X11 R6.4: With the release of X11R6.4 there will be a commercial use licensing fee associated with the X Window System technology. This new licensing structure will continue to provide the research, application development and hobbiest communities with the same value it always has without a fee. And, it will help assure the continued evolution of the X Window System program with the support of those companies who build their businesses from this technology. How will this influence the composition of future versions of Debian? IIRC, a current topic on debian-user has been that non-free works are not included in the official debian distribution; if X11R6.4 becomes non-free, would that mean that X11R6.4 would no longer be distributed with Debian (at least not on official CD-ROM's)? IMHO not including X11R6.4 would be a major barrier to new users trying out Debian. This is added incentive to further classify the non-free group, I believe. marco -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Life is like a bad margarita with good tequila, http://squawk.klue.on.ca I thought, as I poured whiskey onto my granola Running Debian Linux 2.0 and faced a new day. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X11R6.4 and Debian
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- On Wed, 1 Apr 1998, Marco Anglesio wrote: How will this influence the composition of future versions of Debian? IIRC, a current topic on debian-user has been that non-free works are not included in the official debian distribution; if X11R6.4 becomes non-free, would that mean that X11R6.4 would no longer be distributed with Debian (at least not on official CD-ROM's)? IMHO not including X11R6.4 would be a major barrier to new users trying out Debian. XFree86 will continue to be free (this is different than the X11R6.4 from the OpenGroup). Nothing will change, from our perspective. This new licenseing thing will hurt people like Metro-X, though, because they'll have to start paying big time licensing fees. noah PGP public key available at http://lynx.dac.neu.edu/home/httpd/n/nmeyerha/mail.html or by 'finger -l [EMAIL PROTECTED]' -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNSJod4dCcpBjGWoFAQE5UQP/SD1YWYo9xqtBGhjeF5LwrnaUyqvICmfJ hdd3EyIa/W82Sr10our7sQhdBMJ/PZ2tAzaRugUOjdsYvltSpm0IqVEPw5HdVwR0 Gt4dNw9P4Z1T1fz+FbWnOlMIjF95SRPtVhDqg03vXhuG7VEBP2TO+xovm25D7Aa4 A7FOMMWHURM= =lNla -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X11R6.4 and Debian
On Wed, Apr 01, 1998 at 10:38:36AM -0500, Marco Anglesio wrote: From comp.os.linux.development.system This is from the official announce of X11 R6.4: [commercial use licensing fee] How will this influence the composition of future versions of Debian? Not very much. IIRC, a current topic on debian-user has been that non-free works are not included in the official debian distribution; if X11R6.4 becomes non-free, would that mean that X11R6.4 would no longer be distributed with Debian (at least not on official CD-ROM's)? IMHO not including X11R6.4 would be a major barrier to new users trying out Debian. I don't think so. XFree86 (which is based on X11R6.3) will remain free (see http://slashdot.org/articles/9841102444.shtml ). I suspect that the result of making the Open Group's X non-free is that development of that version will start to fall behind the free version quickly. If the commercial folks don't want the freeware folks to have their contributions at all, it is very likely the freeware folks don't want them to profit from their contributions without doing something in return any longer. One way of doing that would be to switch X from BSD-like to GPL licensing. HTH, Ray -- Obsig: developing a new sig -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X11R6.4 and Debian
I suspect that the result of making the Open Group's X non-free is that development of that version will start to fall behind the free version quickly. If the commercial folks don't want the freeware folks to have their contributions at all, it is very likely the freeware folks don't want them to profit from their contributions without doing something in return any longer. One way of doing that would be to switch X from BSD-like to GPL licensing. HTH, Ray Ray, let's not start the war, please... May be it is time to realize the existence of non-free software and try to live in peace with that, not try to ignore as much as possible its existence, adjust our policy and practice to the changing world. Proprietary software has its own and very important role,let's understand that. Thanks. Alex Y. -- _ _( )_ ( (o___ +---+ | _ 7 |Alexander Yukhimets| \()| http://pages.nyu.edu/~aqy6633/ | / \ \ +---+ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X11R6.4 and Debian
Alex Yukhimets [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: let's not start the war, please... Pot. Kettle. -- James -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X11R6.4 and Debian
Hi, Alex == Alex Yukhimets [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ray I suspect that the result of making the Open Group's X non-free Ray is that development of that version will start to fall behind the Ray free version quickly. If the commercial folks don't want the Ray freeware folks to have their contributions at all, it is very Ray likely the freeware folks don't want them to profit from their Ray contributions without doing something in return any longer. One Ray way of doing that would be to switch X from BSD-like to GPL Ray licensing. Alex let's not start the war, please... May be it is time to realize Alex the existence of non-free software and try to live in peace Alex with that, not try to ignore as much as possible its existence, Alex adjust our policy and practice to the changing Alex world. Proprietary software has its own and very important Alex role,let's understand that. Why should ti also not trun the other way around? The non-free software does have it's place, but why should the free software community help someone else who does not believe in the freedom of software? Especially since there are initiatives to block the free software community and lock them out of the cutting edge. X has gone commercial, and the PC 98 harware standard requires a NDA, which means that the free software ommunity has been locked out. And you propose we just turn the other cheek? And help all the people who are locking us out? If we change our policy and give in, there shall be no Debian or Linux around for much longer, IMO. I think adjust our policy and practice to the changing world shall destroy what we have, here in the free software world. I find it ironic that consumers of a free software product are advocating that it move to be more accomodating to proprietary schemes of software development. Should we require a $25000 membership fees for using Debian? manoj -- How many NASA managers does it take to screw in a lightbulb? That's a known problem... don't worry about it. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/ Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X11R6.4 and Debian
Alex let's not start the war, please... May be it is time to realize Alex the existence of non-free software and try to live in peace Alex with that, not try to ignore as much as possible its existence, Alex adjust our policy and practice to the changing Alex world. Proprietary software has its own and very important Alex role,let's understand that. X has gone commercial, and the PC 98 harware standard requires a NDA, which means that the free software ommunity has been locked out. And you propose we just turn the other cheek? And help all the people who are locking us out? Turning the other cheek won't do any bad to us. Turning to destructive position won't do any good. I prefer to be on a safer side. Also, nothing seems to be as bad as you are trying to show, and no need for turning the cheek for a slap. If we change our policy and give in, there shall be no Debian or Linux around for much longer, IMO. I think adjust our policy and practice to the changing world shall destroy what we have, here in the free software world. I find it ironic that consumers of a free software product are advocating that it move to be more accomodating to proprietary schemes of software development. Should we require a $25000 membership fees for using Debian? I don't think there will be need for that. But those who want derive distribution based on Debian for *commercial* use might need to pay some fee. That's bad, but gives us a chance to survive intsted of being locked up and continue to play with outdated software and hardware. Also, let's not do any sharp moves right now. Let's wait a little bit. Thanks. Alex Y. -- _ _( )_ ( (o___ +---+ | _ 7 |Alexander Yukhimets| \()| http://pages.nyu.edu/~aqy6633/ | / \ \ +---+ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X11R6.4 and Debian
Hi, Alex == [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Alex Turning the other cheek won't do any bad to us. On the contrary. The sting on the cheeks, the bruises bespeaking of smashed capillaries, are a mere token of what happens if you do not take a stand. Alex Turning to destructive position won't do any good. So you do not agree with the best defense is a good offence? Alex I prefer to be on a safer side. The safer side is rarely curling into a foetal position and giving in. Alex Also, nothing seems to be as bad as you are trying to show, and Alex no need for turning the cheek for a slap. I think it is far, far, worse, but most of the analogies do not belong on a family mailing list like this one ;-) Should we require a $25000 membership fees for using Debian? Alex I don't think there will be need for that. But those who want Alex derive distribution based on Debian for *commercial* use might Alex need to pay some fee. That's bad, but gives us a chance to Alex survive intsted of being locked up and continue to play with Alex outdated software and hardware. Good Lord, Alex, I didn't think even you would go this far ;-) Alex Also, let's not do any sharp moves right now. Let's wait a Alex little bit. Nope, I vote we either go with the social contract, or start charging, say, $25000 per seat. Or maybe even $10 per seat. If I am gonna give up my principles, I want to be rich! No half way measures! $100,000 for each system running Debian! Yay! Rich, I tell you! manoj -- Knowing when to optimize is as important as knowing how. Tom Neff Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/ Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: X11R6.4 and Debian
Marco Anglesio [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From comp.os.linux.development.system This is from the official announce of X11 R6.4: With the release of X11R6.4 there will be a commercial use licensing fee associated with the X Window System technology. This new licensing structure will continue to provide the research, application development and hobbiest communities with the same value it always has without a fee. And, it will help assure the continued evolution of the X Window System program with the support of those companies who build their businesses from this technology. How will this influence the composition of future versions of Debian? IIRC, a current topic on debian-user has been that non-free works are not included in the official debian distribution; if X11R6.4 becomes non-free, would that mean that X11R6.4 would no longer be distributed with Debian (at least not on official CD-ROM's)? IMHO not including X11R6.4 would be a major barrier to new users trying out Debian. X11 is basically a pretty mature standard. It's not going to disappear from Debian - X11R6.3 is DFSG-free software, so we have no fear of that. What will happen, if the Open Group persists with this licensing, is that there will be two competing X standards - the proprietary X-branded one that the Open Group licenses to the commercial Unix vendors - and the free one put out by XFree86 that is used by Linux and FreeBSD (and others). In reality, this isn't going to happen. The commercial Unix vendors don't want to see X split - and they fund the Open Group. A split in X development would be a nightmare for them, because the Open Group would not be able to keep up with the XFree86 fork. What will happen is that the commercial X/Unix vendors will see the light (with some assistance) - and realize that the free licensees (XFree86) contribute more value in terms of code than the commercial vendors contribute in money. So they will rework the funding arrangement in such a way that X can be freely licensed under the old license, XFree86 can contribute code, but the commercial vendors still fund development. This will happen sooner or later. It will happen sooner if all the free software types raise a big stink right away before their licensing idea gets entrenched. So if you know anybody who was a member of the X Consortium, and is now supporting the Open Group - call them or send them a note, and explain Open Source to them. Cheers, - Jim pgp7CQNTxCXiW.pgp Description: PGP signature
