Re: backing up a drive
Sorry, for the late reponse... You have: Windows 98 proprietary software What you can do is easy: 1) Install the new Hardrive with a new Windows 98 and make it bootable (make sure it works) 2) stop your computer and attach the old Harddisk to the secoindary IDE-Controller 3) start a Linux-Live-CD and mount allt wo drives with "vfat". 4) erase all files on the new drive. 5) copy all files recursiv from the old HDD to the new one 6) Stop your computer and remove the old HDD 7) Restart the Computer and look what hapnen... Please note, I have done this several times in the last 6 years and it was always working. Greetings Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSM LinuxMichi 0033/3/8845235667100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backing up a drive
The dd can be from a live cdrom or from a small partition on the box reserved just for this purpose. The latter is no good in the case of a dead disk but is convenient otherwise. What about mirrordir? Assuming equal partitions on 2 disks, say from a prior dd run, how does the result of mirrordir --strict-locking / /mnt/backup compare with appropriately using dd? (/dev/hdb1 is mounted on /mnt/backup) Seems like mirrordir makes a nice backup option too? Thanks any comments - John -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backing up a drive
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, Doofus wrote: Only do this in single user mode though, right? Or better still, on a Make sure that the MS-Window system is not active in any way (through a virtual system or whatever). The dd can be from a live cdrom or from a small partition on the box reserved just for this purpose. The latter is no good in the case of a dead disk but is convenient otherwise. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc.Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web:www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backing up a drive
Micha Feigin wrote: I want to make an exact backup of a hard drive (copy one drive to another). It contains a program who's copy protection checks changes to the system so unless I can restore it exactly the program will stop running (it's a veterinary clinic software so I don't think that there is a free alternative) Thanks You can clone a hard disc providing that the new disc is at least as big as the one you wish to clone. See http://newbiedoc.berlios.de/wiki/Cloning_a_hard_disc -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backing up a drive
Mike Smith wrote:
I'd prefer you not to top post.
Hmm... Doesn't the hard drive's MBR have the disk size on it?
Yes, but the MBR is not part of any partition. Using dd on
/hda1 uses the partition, not the physical disc.
(I know that's the case with floppy disks - I made Windows think a
1.44mbfloppy was
33.6 mb once. The power of a hex editor ;-) )
You edited the BR, not the MBR, as a floppy doesn't have an MBR.
On 3/21/06, Mike McCarty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Philippe De Ryck wrote:
Well, according to me a dd of a live system is a really bad idea. The
safest way is just boot with a live linux CD (knoppix for instance) and
dump the partitions from the HDD. Do NOT dump a mounted partition.
This was my thought on the matter as well, use Knoppix or Kanotix, or
other LiveCD. Um, I believe mounting Read Only would be ok.
[snip]
Mike
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Re: backing up a drive
Hmm... Doesn't the hard drive's MBR have the disk size on it?
(I know that's the case with floppy disks - I made Windows think a 1.44mb floppy was 33.6 mb once. The power of a hex editor ;-) )
On 3/21/06, Mike McCarty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Philippe De Ryck wrote:> Well, according to me a dd of a live system is a really bad idea. The> safest way is just boot with a live linux CD (knoppix for instance) and
> dump the partitions from the HDD. Do NOT dump a mounted partition.This was my thought on the matter as well, use Knoppix or Kanotix, orother LiveCD. Um, I believe mounting Read Only would be ok.
[snip]Mike--p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}This message made from 100% recycled bits.You have found the bank of Larn.I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
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Re: backing up a drive
On Tuesday, 21 March 2006 14:40, John Fleming wrote: > >> > A pointer: take a dump of the entire drive (dd if=/dev/hda) and not > >> > just > >> > partition. > > Please tell this newbie additional info that's probably obvious to everyone > else - What all should be stopped while dd is doing it's thing, IOW stop > mail server and anything else that might be actively trying to change files > during the dd? What all comes to mind - mail, cron, Apache...others?? > > What's the worst thing that might happen if active services are NOT > stopped - a jumbled mail message or could the whole filesystem end up > unusable in this case?? > > Thanks - John Dumping the root file system should probably be done in "system maintenance mode", otherwise know an runlevel 1, or single user mode. At the boot prompt, you can type "linux single" if you are using LILO. In GRUB the same thing should be possible, except that I haven't tried it. Another way of doing it is to run "init 1" from a root prompt, but you may need to run ps to see if any services are still running. cheers Duncan ___ Yahoo! Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just 8p a photo http://uk.photos.yahoo.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backing up a drive
Philippe De Ryck wrote:
Well, according to me a dd of a live system is a really bad idea. The
safest way is just boot with a live linux CD (knoppix for instance) and
dump the partitions from the HDD. Do NOT dump a mounted partition.
This was my thought on the matter as well, use Knoppix or Kanotix, or
other LiveCD. Um, I believe mounting Read Only would be ok.
[snip]
Mike
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I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
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Re: backing up a drive
Micha Feigin wrote:
I want to make an exact backup of a hard drive (copy one drive to another). It
contains a program who's copy protection checks changes to the system so unless
I can restore it exactly the program will stop running (it's a veterinary
clinic software so I don't think that there is a free alternative)
I recommend you contact the vendor of the software and explain
your situation, then request that they provide a solution.
You *pay* for the use of that software. They *should* have a
means to handle your oh-so-common case. If they don't, then
there is a problem. I would consider changing vendors.
I've been on the other side of that issue, having written and
supported hospital, pharmacy, and printing software, and I've always
provided a way to run on a temporary basis after a necessary
re-install or reload from backup. Any programmer worth his
salt is going to understand your need, but the corporate
structure may not.
Yes, I know that changing software would be a major problem,
but so is not being able to get back up and running in an
hour or two after a hard disc crash.
Mike
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Re: backing up a drive
Dmitri Minaev wrote: >On 3/21/06, Robert Brockway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>>There may be a way around this limitation or to fix it after >>>performing dd. >>> >>> >>Following a reimaging from dd the options to expand the filesystem are: >>1. Resize the filesystem using suitable tools if possible. >>or >>2. Take the data off using a tool like dump, xfsdump (for xfs), cpio or >>tar and remake the filesystem before restoring. >> >> > >Or send the dd output to a file instead of a partition. Then you can >use the free space on the target partition for other files. > Surley Dmitri's method here is best because `dd if= of=` for example: `dd if=/dev/hda of=/disk2/backup1.img` will not only give a bit-for-bit copy of the entire drive that's easily rewritten onto to the original media, but is also a simple (and portable) file, so you don't need to worry about finding an identical disk to do the initial disk dump onto. Only do this in single user mode though, right? Or better still, on a cold system running from a pair of rescue floppies or a debian installer CD. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backing up a drive
On Tue, 2006-03-21 at 07:40 -0500, John Fleming wrote: > >> > A pointer: take a dump of the entire drive (dd if=/dev/hda) and not > >> > just > >> > partition. > > Please tell this newbie additional info that's probably obvious to everyone > else - What all should be stopped while dd is doing it's thing, IOW stop > mail server and anything else that might be actively trying to change files > during the dd? What all comes to mind - mail, cron, Apache...others?? > > What's the worst thing that might happen if active services are NOT > stopped - a jumbled mail message or could the whole filesystem end up > unusable in this case?? > > Thanks - John > Well, according to me a dd of a live system is a really bad idea. The safest way is just boot with a live linux CD (knoppix for instance) and dump the partitions from the HDD. Do NOT dump a mounted partition. Access the partition directly using the device (/dev/hda1 for instance). This way you'll have a consistent dump of your partition. I do not know what would happen if you dump a live system, but I don't think much good can come from it. Philippe De Ryck -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backing up a drive
> A pointer: take a dump of the entire drive (dd if=/dev/hda) and not > just > partition. Please tell this newbie additional info that's probably obvious to everyone else - What all should be stopped while dd is doing it's thing, IOW stop mail server and anything else that might be actively trying to change files during the dd? What all comes to mind - mail, cron, Apache...others?? What's the worst thing that might happen if active services are NOT stopped - a jumbled mail message or could the whole filesystem end up unusable in this case?? Thanks - John -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backing up a drive
On Tue, 2006-03-21 at 00:17 -0500, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 20 Mar 2006, Philippe De Ryck wrote: > > > A pointer: take a dump of the entire drive (dd if=/dev/hda) and not just > > partition. I've had some systems that wouldn't accept the restored > > version (PC wouldn't boot anymore due to no OS found) unless the whole > > disk was restored. > > I've done this plenty of times over the years. You just need to rerun a > boot loader following the partition restore. Lilo does well for this. > > The bootloader can be run from a local Linux partition or from a live > cdrom as is preferred by the admin. Think about disaster recovery which > ever way you go (eg, the entire disk is toast). > > Rob > Well, I'll elaborate on the situation I encountered. I didn't look into it very much, because when the problem occurred I didn't have the time to do so. Since it was a Windows-only system, there was no lilo installed. If I restored only hda1 the PC wouldn't boot. I tried a lot of options: I tried to restore the MBR using lilo, to no avail. I tried restoring the MBR using the WindowsXP repair console (or whatever that thing is called) using fixmbr and fixboot, all to no avail. The system didn't recognize the operating system. In the repair console however, I could "connect" to the installation and everything was where it was supposed to be. This is where I gave up (It cost me way more time than I had to spare). If anyone can elaborate on this that would be great. I believe the hardware has been decomissioned a few weeks ago, so I would be able to run some tests (in the future, because the schedule is packed right now). Any suggestions welcome! Philippe De Ryck PS: if this should be in a new thread, feel free to reply in a new one! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backing up a drive
On Monday 20 March 2006 14:24, Star King of the Grape Trees wrote: > Micha Feigin wrote: > >I want to make an exact backup of a hard drive (copy one drive to > > another). It contains a program who's copy protection checks changes to > > the system so unless I can restore it exactly the program will stop > > running (it's a veterinary clinic software so I don't think that there is > > a free alternative) > > > >Thanks > > Sometimes that is not enough. Some programs also check things such as > CPU ID, and other serial numbers. > > "dd" or "cat" is probably sufficient, but you will get a file that is > the SAME size as the HDD. > > So, I would get another HDD that is *exactly* equal or larger, and use > the actual hard disc as the destination file. (ie, /dev/hdd) > > (Could someone else please confirm this?) That perfectly describes dd's usage. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: Because it's time to move forward http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backing up a drive
On Monday 20 March 2006 13:32, Micha Feigin wrote: > I want to make an exact backup of a hard drive (copy one drive to another). > It contains a program who's copy protection checks changes to the system so > unless I can restore it exactly the program will stop running (it's a > veterinary clinic software so I don't think that there is a free > alternative) dd if= of= will make a bit-for-bit copy of the original media. -- Paul Johnson Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabber: Because it's time to move forward http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backing up a drive
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006, Philippe De Ryck wrote: A pointer: take a dump of the entire drive (dd if=/dev/hda) and not just partition. I've had some systems that wouldn't accept the restored version (PC wouldn't boot anymore due to no OS found) unless the whole disk was restored. I've done this plenty of times over the years. You just need to rerun a boot loader following the partition restore. Lilo does well for this. The bootloader can be run from a local Linux partition or from a live cdrom as is preferred by the admin. Think about disaster recovery which ever way you go (eg, the entire disk is toast). Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc.Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web:www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backing up a drive
On 3/21/06, Robert Brockway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > There may be a way around this limitation or to fix it after > > performing dd. > Following a reimaging from dd the options to expand the filesystem are: > 1. Resize the filesystem using suitable tools if possible. > or > 2. Take the data off using a tool like dump, xfsdump (for xfs), cpio or > tar and remake the filesystem before restoring. Or send the dd output to a file instead of a partition. Then you can use the free space on the target partition for other files. -- With best regards, Dmitri Minaev
Re: backing up a drive
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006, Monique Y. Mudama wrote: I seem to recall that it doesn't. I believe that dd will cause the partition to think it's the size of the original partition. So it "works," but you can only use as much space as the original hard drive had. That's right. It does work in so far as the original filesystem is restored and all it costs you is a little wasted space. For most people a small price to get their system back working, at least in the short term. There may be a way around this limitation or to fix it after performing dd. Following a reimaging from dd the options to expand the filesystem are: 1. Resize the filesystem using suitable tools if possible. or 2. Take the data off using a tool like dump, xfsdump (for xfs), cpio or tar and remake the filesystem before restoring. Of course if any of these work then use them instead of dd in the first instance. dd is really only useful for backups where other tools may not work well (eg, to backup an NTFS file system from Linux when you fear making a new NTFS filesystem may be difficult in the future). dd takes up more space (since it backs up the filesystem rather than the files), is very rigid and does not allow for anything except a full backup. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc.Phone: +1-905-821-2327 Senior Technical Consultant Urgent Support: +1-416-669-3073 OpenTrend Solutions Ltd Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web:www.opentrend.net We are open 24x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backing up a drive
On 2006-03-20, Micha Feigin penned: > On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:46:15 -0600 Mark Petersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> >> There's a few ways to do this, such as 'dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdc' > > Will this work if the drives are not of the same size? (I want to > backup the drive so that I can restore it later if there is a > problem) > I seem to recall that it doesn't. I believe that dd will cause the partition to think it's the size of the original partition. So it "works," but you can only use as much space as the original hard drive had. There may be a way around this limitation or to fix it after performing dd. -- monique Ask smart questions, get good answers: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backing up a drive
Micha Feigin writes: > Will [dd] work if the drives are not of the same size? It will work as long as the destination drive is as large or larger than the source. > I want to backup the drive so that I can restore it later if there is a > problem You could copy the disk to a file. > Like I said, there is no one to talk to, and it seems that they made some > changes to the file format (without changing the major version BTW) so > the last version doesn't work with her files. Sounds like a vendor to get away from as soon as possible. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backing up a drive
On Tue, 2006-03-21 at 09:24 +1100, Star King of the Grape Trees wrote: > Micha Feigin wrote: > > >I want to make an exact backup of a hard drive (copy one drive to another). > >It > >contains a program who's copy protection checks changes to the system so > >unless > >I can restore it exactly the program will stop running (it's a veterinary > >clinic software so I don't think that there is a free alternative) > > > >Thanks > > > > > > > > > Sometimes that is not enough. Some programs also check things such as > CPU ID, and other serial numbers. > > "dd" or "cat" is probably sufficient, but you will get a file that is > the SAME size as the HDD. > > So, I would get another HDD that is *exactly* equal or larger, and use > the actual hard disc as the destination file. (ie, /dev/hdd) > > (Could someone else please confirm this?) > I use system images *a lot* and the easiest way for me is to boot the source-pc with a knoppix-disk and then use "dd if=/dev/hdX | netcat ..." to transfer the image to another machine running linux. The file is received on that machine by "netcat ... > hda.img". This works perfectly (at least if you restore to the same machine). I believe it would give the same result if you do it directly to the disk as suggested. Of course, you can use knoppix to partition the disk and make it a file. That's easier to store (bzip2 it and put it on a DVD for instance). If you're unsure, find a spare machine, install windows98 and try to backup and restore it (backup it, delete some files in windows and restore the partition to verify that everything works and is there). This way you're quite sure your backup will work on the actual system. A pointer: take a dump of the entire drive (dd if=/dev/hda) and not just partition. I've had some systems that wouldn't accept the restored version (PC wouldn't boot anymore due to no OS found) unless the whole disk was restored. Good luck Philippe De Ryck -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backing up a drive
Micha Feigin wrote: On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:46:15 -0600 Mark Petersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: At 03:32 PM 3/20/2006, you wrote: I want to make an exact backup of a hard drive (copy one drive to another). It ... ... I have an extra hard disk so I thought to use that. The new one is larger then the one installed. Ok, how about just zanking that HDD out, LABELLING IT (You don't want to accidently wipe that program, do you?), putting the new one in, install the new OS, put the HDD in as a slave, copy the data and stuff over, then keeping it out again as a backup? If anything goes wrong, yank out the new hdd in, and put the old one back in. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backing up a drive
Micha Feigin writes: > I want to make an exact backup of a hard drive (copy one drive to > another). Use dd. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backing up a drive
Micha Feigin wrote: I want to make an exact backup of a hard drive (copy one drive to another). It contains a program who's copy protection checks changes to the system so unless I can restore it exactly the program will stop running (it's a veterinary clinic software so I don't think that there is a free alternative) Thanks Sometimes that is not enough. Some programs also check things such as CPU ID, and other serial numbers. "dd" or "cat" is probably sufficient, but you will get a file that is the SAME size as the HDD. So, I would get another HDD that is *exactly* equal or larger, and use the actual hard disc as the destination file. (ie, /dev/hdd) (Could someone else please confirm this?) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: backing up a drive
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:46:15 -0600 Mark Petersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 03:32 PM 3/20/2006, you wrote: > >I want to make an exact backup of a hard drive (copy one drive to another). > >It > >contains a program who's copy protection checks changes to the > >system so unless > >I can restore it exactly the program will stop running (it's a veterinary > >clinic software so I don't think that there is a free alternative) > > There's a few ways to do this, such as 'dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdc' Will this work if the drives are not of the same size? (I want to backup the drive so that I can restore it later if there is a problem) > but are you sure it doesn't check the physical HD serial number or I'm not sure, it's for my veterenarian and there is no more support for the program, they want her to upgrade to the next program and she doesn't want to spend the money. The problem is that the machine is running windows 98 (not se) and doesn't recognize the new cdrw. I want to make sure I can restore everything before I make any damage. I have an extra hard disk so I thought to use that. The new one is larger then the one installed. > anything else that will keep this from working? Why can't you > discuss ahead of time and get a key re-issued if things change too much? > Like I said, there is no one to talk to, and it seems that they made some changes to the file format (without changing the major version BTW) so the last version doesn't work with her files. > > +++ > This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System > at the Tel-Aviv University CC. > > +++ This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System at the Tel-Aviv University CC. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
backing up a drive
I want to make an exact backup of a hard drive (copy one drive to another). It contains a program who's copy protection checks changes to the system so unless I can restore it exactly the program will stop running (it's a veterinary clinic software so I don't think that there is a free alternative) Thanks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
