Re: Hypernews (was Re: debian-newbie list)
Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with HyperNews, but I am
interested in contributing to this project.
Please let me know if there is something I can do to assist.
Cool. I'll set up HyperNews on the machine - it should be ready
by the middle of next week. It doesn't look too hard to do,
so I'll do that myself -- and maybe you can help administrate and
moderate the pages themselves?
I'm thinking of structuring the documents like this:
http://dwww.jimpick.com/HyperNews/get/debian.html
would be the home page. Then we can create discussion lists for
each package:
http://dwww.jimpick.com/HyperNews/get/debian/packages/{package name}.html
Plus we could have additional lists too.
We could use something like:
http://www.feedback.com.ar/debian/
or
http://rae.ton.tut.fi/preview/
to link to the package discussion list pages. Eventually, I'm going to
put something like that into dwww.
I think it would be a nice complement to the existing mailing lists and
the bug reporting system. Thanks for showing some interest. :-)
Cheers,
- Jim
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Re: Hypernews (was Re: debian-newbie list)
Second, we need a person who edits all of the questions and answers into a web tree. The web tree should be orgnanized by package or something, and then under the package name you see a big list of questions and click on them to see tha answers. I was thinking that this would be a good thing to add to dwww (as an external link). Unfortunately, dwww (which I am furiously working away on) probably won't be in any shape to support this for a few months. My concept is: when requesting help on a topic, dwww would identify which package the topic belongs too. Then, via a plug-in interface, other routines could add additional text and links to the page returned by the search engine. One of the plug-ins could be a link to a HyperNews archive. I am very interested in doing this. I am even willing to contribute space on the dwww web server ( http://dwww.jimpick.com/ ) which I own. Maybe we don't have to wait until I get around to fixing up dwww. If someone is willing to do the work, I can provide an account and space on my server so that HyperNews could be set up and the proper heirarchy created. Send me some e-mail if you are interested. Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with HyperNews, but I am interested in contributing to this project. Please let me know if there is something I can do to assist. -- Any man who does not realize that he is half an | G. Branden Robinson animal is only half a man. -- Thornton Wilder | [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian-newbie list
Hi, I am a Linux (and Unix) newbie so before installing Debian I followed this list for a while to get a sense of the likely problems and possible solutions. Even without posting the list is helpful, but the sheer volume of messages is difficult to handle. I think Bruce's idea of building a web tree of responses is a really good idea, but because it would seem to take a lot of effort to coordinate, it may take a relatively longtime to implement (meaning lots of messages everyday for the near future). Perhaps an easier and quicker way to implement the tree would be to use an idea someone -- I think Ami Ganguli -- proposed a month or two ago: once a question is posed, all responses are sent to the questioner, who is then responsible for summarizing the respones and posting to the list. These summarized responses could immediately start being fed into the tree, while also reducing mail. Also, I don't think help -- tree or otherwise -- should be organized solely by package. As a new user I don't necessarily know what package is the source (or solution) to my problem. Ideally, in addition to package, help could be referenced by subject, e.g., mail, mouse, X-windows, etc. I know the HOW-TOs are organized by subject so it would be somewhat redundant, but when a problem occurs the first question is usually phrased in terms of subject. Just my thoughts. Richard -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian-newbie list
I'd like to see a standard for support questions that has people put keywords in the subject line. No need for such complications. Debian-user is fun, and I like the the subject lines the way they are. Sure, some answers are repeated, so what! That is part of the fun, the audience guesses at the questions once more and some day the ansers will settle, like jeopardy. Do not see anything wrong here, except (of course) for the deselect-ftp, the crond, the clear screen, the Netscape, and the syslogd questions. They are the ones that never end. No big deal... If the user wants to scan the archieves, he scans the archieves. He wants to post, he posts. He wants correct responses, he types $ man my_subject. He wants his answers posted, debian will post them. Who is willing to read long lists on the web? If I must browse through lists, I would rather read the long package manuals. We already have faqs, howtos, min-howtos, /usr/doc, nag, uag. You don't want to read anything, by all means, POST! ( in the-fastest-urls-are-my-D-and-ENTER-keys mode. ) Ioannis Tambouras [EMAIL PROTECTED], West Palm Beach, Florida Signed pgp-key on key server. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian-newbie list
This is a good idea, because a number of people have told me they find the prospect of posting to debian-user intimidating, because they expect to be flamed to a cinder by others on the list. Now, it's not nearly that bad, but I understand where they are coming from. I'd subscribe and help where possible. Me to where I could. There should be a FAQ that's posted to it as well... cause I'm sick of telling people where to find PGP every other week :) Adam - Earthlight Communications Limited P.O. Box 5301 Adam Shand (fax) +64 3 477 5463 Dunedin, New Zealand Systems Manager(voice) +64 3 479 0303 http://www.earthlight.co.nz/larry/ -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian-newbie list
On Feb 20, Bruce Perens wrote I think what we need first is a person to coordinate all of the oldbies who are answering questions. There has to be a schedule, perhaps a mail alias that is directed to different people at different times, etc. Second, we need a person who edits all of the questions and answers into a web tree. The web tree should be orgnanized by package or something, and then under the package name you see a big list of questions and click on them to see tha answers. It could be very useful to use the same system that's used for the kernel hacker's guide (http://www.redhat.com:8080/HyperNews/get/khg.html). The KHG uses HyperNews (http://union.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HyperNews/get/hypernews.html); described as HyperNews is a cross between the hypermedia of the WWW and Usenet News. Readers can reply to base articles they read in the HyperNews web, and browse through the messages written by other people. A forum(base article) holds a list of messages on a topic, and you can reply to the base article or another reply. These messages are laid out in an indented tree format that shows how the messages are related (i.e. all replies to a message are listed under it and indented). Users can become members of HyperNews or subscribe to a forum in order to get e-mail whenever a message is posted, so they don't have to check if anything new has been added. This e-mail gateway is also bi-directional, so the user doesn't have to find a web browser to reply. HyperNews then places the message in the appropriate forum. Note that the editor will need an account on the machine hosting HyperNews; www.debian.org is based on mirroring only, so another host would have to be used. Ray -- POPULATION EXPLOSION Unique in human experience, an event which happened yesterday but which everyone swears won't happen until tomorrow. - The Hipcrime Vocab by Chad C. Mulligan -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian-newbie list
Related idea: I'm thinking about working on the FAQ this weekend, and one thing I'd like to do is to break it up into at least two parts: --one which is general, and --one which focusses only on dselect and dpkg. Of course, we could break it up further. For example, we could have --an FAQ on installation and booting, and --an FAQ on using the Debian archives. --an FAQ on other Debian utilities or Debian practices. --an FAQ on printing and text utilities --an FAQ on TCP/IP problems, including PPP. From my posts on other lists, one would also conclude that I believe we also need --an FAQ on package development. An argument could be made that it might be a good idea to have user lists that were broken up along the same lines as the FAQs. Reactions? Susan Kleinmann -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian-newbie list
On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, Susan G. Kleinmann wrote: Of course, we could break it up further. For example, we could have --an FAQ on installation and booting, and --an FAQ on using the Debian archives. --an FAQ on other Debian utilities or Debian practices. --an FAQ on printing and text utilities --an FAQ on TCP/IP problems, including PPP. This would be a good idea in my opinion. An argument could be made that it might be a good idea to have user lists that were broken up along the same lines as the FAQs. This is possibly necessary, because there is so much traffic on this list. Subscribing this list my dayly mail incresed from about 20 to more than hundred letters. I'm afraid getting so much per day I sometimes realize some important mails while pressing 'd' (delete this letter) while scanning only the subjects. Thanks for doing the job to write the FAQs Andreas. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hypernews (was Re: debian-newbie list)
On Feb 20, Bruce Perens wrote I think what we need first is a person to coordinate all of the oldbies who are answering questions. There has to be a schedule, perhaps a mail alias that is directed to different people at different times, etc. Second, we need a person who edits all of the questions and answers into a web tree. The web tree should be orgnanized by package or something, and then under the package name you see a big list of questions and click on them to see tha answers. It could be very useful to use the same system that's used for the kernel hacker's guide (http://www.redhat.com:8080/HyperNews/get/khg.html). The KHG uses HyperNews (http://union.ncsa.uiuc.edu/HyperNews/get/hypernews.html); I was thinking that this would be a good thing to add to dwww (as an external link). Unfortunately, dwww (which I am furiously working away on) probably won't be in any shape to support this for a few months. My concept is: when requesting help on a topic, dwww would identify which package the topic belongs too. Then, via a plug-in interface, other routines could add additional text and links to the page returned by the search engine. One of the plug-ins could be a link to a HyperNews archive. I am very interested in doing this. I am even willing to contribute space on the dwww web server ( http://dwww.jimpick.com/ ) which I own. Maybe we don't have to wait until I get around to fixing up dwww. If someone is willing to do the work, I can provide an account and space on my server so that HyperNews could be set up and the proper heirarchy created. Send me some e-mail if you are interested. Cheers, - Jim pgpvGwP3EAF7D.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: debian-newbie list
On Fri, 21 Feb 1997, Susan G. Kleinmann wrote: Related idea: I'm thinking about working on the FAQ this weekend, and one thing I'd like to do is to break it up into at least two parts: --one which is general, and --one which focusses only on dselect and dpkg. Of course, we could break it up further. For example, we could have --an FAQ on installation and booting, and --an FAQ on using the Debian archives. --an FAQ on other Debian utilities or Debian practices. I think you should combine the dselect and dpkg faq with the faq on using the debian archives, and also throw in a little bit about networking and ppp (pointing them in the right direction for their particular networking setup), so that it'll be a really good resource for beginners (like me). That way they'll have all the info they need to get started in one place. -=- Daniel Robbins School of Medicine Computer Services University of New Mexico [email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
debian-newbie list
From: Richard Morin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Is there any plan to have a debian-newbie to take some of the load off of debian-user? We could do this, but we'd have to have an organized force of debian-oldbies on duty on the list to answer questions. This is a good idea, because a number of people have told me they find the prospect of posting to debian-user intimidating, because they expect to be flamed to a cinder by others on the list. Now, it's not nearly that bad, but I understand where they are coming from. Bruce -- Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key. PGP fingerprint = 88 6A 15 D0 65 D4 A3 A6 1F 89 6A 76 95 24 87 B3 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian-newbie list
In your email to me, Bruce Perens, you wrote: From: Richard Morin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Is there any plan to have a debian-newbie to take some of the load off of debian-user? We could do this, but we'd have to have an organized force of debian-oldbies on duty on the list to answer questions. This is a good idea, because a number of people have told me they find the prospect of posting to debian-user intimidating, because they expect to be flamed to a cinder by others on the list. Now, it's not nearly that bad, but I understand where they are coming from. I'd subscribe and help where possible. Tim -- (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] / (home) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.buoy.com/~tps Actually, I *do* know everything. I just don't get paid enough to show it. ** Disclaimer: My views/comments/beliefs, as strange as they are, are my own.** -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian-newbie list
Tim Sailer wrote: I'd subscribe and help where possible. Tim Me too. But I'd like to see a standard for support questions that has people put keywords in the subject line. Define a set of keywords (like lilo, dselect, format, etc.) that can be used to categorize questions. Then those individuals who would like to focus on specific topics can filter by keyword. As things stand now, I have about 130 messages in my mailbox each morning (and more arriving throughout the day). The first thing I do is scan the subject and from lines and delete any that don't seem particularly interesting. I would be more inclined to offer help if I could focus on the topics I feel knowledgable about. Regards... ... Ami. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian-newbie list
This is a good idea, because a number of people have told me they find the prospect of posting to debian-user intimidating, because they expect to be flamed to a cinder by others on the list. Now, it's not nearly that bad, but I understand where they are coming from. Bruce -- So far, I can't say enough how helpful folks have been on this list. I only wish I could contribute in some small way. Which, I guess I try to do by living off of unstable. If my machine goes down, no biggie, however, my lack of understanding, at times might frustrate more experienced users. Perhaps I should re-phrase that, my inability to be very specific about just what is wrong, and what I've tried, to remedy the situation, could peeve people off. I do realize that the developers need the feedback, from as many different types of H/W and S/W combinations as possible. Therefore, I will continue what I'm doing, I'm learning a whole lot, and so far no one has told me to RTFM. :-) I just think it might be a little more comfortable for complete novices to have a group which is *specifically ready to hear*uh, whats dpkg, perhaps it would allow a series of canned responses to be drafted for these common questions. I'm new to the Linux community and Debian, but to me, it seems like Linux and Debian are just on the cusp of wide acceptance. Some of you veterans better get ready for the army of the clueless which has yet to join the ranks. I guess I'll lump myself in that group, for now! :-) I'll try to learn from the veterans what it took to get the Linux community to this point(co-operation, volunteers, sweat, blood and tears) and continue in the same vein. Yeah, I want to make some money out of this in the _long run_(a new job), but I'll try and maintain a balance. Sorry for ramblin' from the wings shoot 'im now, shoot 'im now/ Rich M [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian-newbie list
I think what we need first is a person to coordinate all of the oldbies who are answering questions. There has to be a schedule, perhaps a mail alias that is directed to different people at different times, etc. Second, we need a person who edits all of the questions and answers into a web tree. The web tree should be orgnanized by package or something, and then under the package name you see a big list of questions and click on them to see tha answers. Thanks Bruce -- Bruce Perens K6BP [EMAIL PROTECTED] 510-215-3502 Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key. PGP fingerprint = 88 6A 15 D0 65 D4 A3 A6 1F 89 6A 76 95 24 87 B3 -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: debian-newbie list
Ami Ganguli writes: I'd like to see a standard for support questions that has people put keywords in the subject line. By the time they understand the standard they aren't newbies anymore. How about a form for them to fill out on the web page? Then post the filled out form to a list subscribed to by the volunteer oldies, who can filter the questions any way they wish. -- John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain. [EMAIL PROTECTED]Do with it what you will. Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind. Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
