Upgrades of Debian and Ubuntu
On 16/02/2023 14:59, Nicolas George wrote: Debian is not Ubuntu, major upgrade do not break the system. Perhaps the issue is not Ubuntu per se, but e.g. number of 3rd-party repositories. Ubuntu users may be more frequently affected by suggestions to add a ppa repository. I have heard opinions about broken upgrades of ubuntu, but real reasons are unclear for me. My experience is that without 3rd party repository upgrades works well enough. I faced some minor issues, but they were not a reason to reinstall.
Re: Console freezes when I try to access the NFS mounted directory under Debian and Ubuntu
On Wednesday 05 May 2010 8:52:45 am Octavian Rasnita wrote: > I have a FreeBSD 7.2-RELEASE-p6 FreeBSD 7.2-RELEASE-p6 #0: Wed Jan 6 > 00:43:01 UTC 2010 that works as an NFS server, with the following line in > /etc/exports: [...] > Both these servers mount the local /srv/data directory to the one exported > by the server that uses FreeBSD using NFS I use the following line in > /etc/fstab (where 10.50.28.90 is the IP of the server that runs the NFS > server): > > 10.50.28.90:/mnt/opt/ebroker /srv/data nfs rw,sync 0 0 > > Right after I reboot any of these 2 servers, the /srv/data directory is > mounted correctly and I can access the files and directories under it, but > after a certain period of time (that can be minutes, hours or even days), > the console freezes if I use the command: > > $ cd /srv/data > or > $ ls -l /srv/data > > ...and I can't even break it with Ctrl+C. > The single workaround (for a while) is to reboot the NFS client machine, > which is not an acceptable solution. > > I have tried to add the "hard" and "intr" options in the line from > /etc/fstab that mounts /srv/data, hoping that at least I will be able to > break that frozen directory with Ctrl+C, but nothing changed. [...] I may be experiencing a similar issue. On the clients, does dmesg say things like nfs: server not responding, still trying nfs: server OK I have been troubleshooting this for the better part of a week and have gotten nowhere. Changing all of the mounts to use nfs4 seems to fix the problem, but I have to use nfs3 for one of the mounts (otherwise I get into ID mapping hell). There is an open bug in (I think) nfs-kernel-server that describes similar symptoms, but offers no solution. Is anyone else experiencing this? MM -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201005051121.20014.anonymous.jon...@gmail.com
Console freezes when I try to access the NFS mounted directory under Debian and Ubuntu
Hello, I have a FreeBSD 7.2-RELEASE-p6 FreeBSD 7.2-RELEASE-p6 #0: Wed Jan 6 00:43:01 UTC 2010 that works as an NFS server, with the following line in /etc/exports: /mnt/opt/ebroker/ -alldirs -maproot=root -network 10.50.28.0 -mask 255.255.255.0 (There are more lines in /etc/exports, but this is the one that doesn't work.) And I have 2 other servers, one that runs under Ubuntu: Linux 2.6.28-11-server #42-Ubuntu SMP Fri Apr 17 02:45:36 UTC 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux and the other one under Debian: Linux 2.6.26-2-amd64 #1 SMP Tue Mar 9 22:29:32 UTC 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux Both these servers mount the local /srv/data directory to the one exported by the server that uses FreeBSD using NFS I use the following line in /etc/fstab (where 10.50.28.90 is the IP of the server that runs the NFS server): 10.50.28.90:/mnt/opt/ebroker /srv/data nfs rw,sync 0 0 Right after I reboot any of these 2 servers, the /srv/data directory is mounted correctly and I can access the files and directories under it, but after a certain period of time (that can be minutes, hours or even days), the console freezes if I use the command: $ cd /srv/data or $ ls -l /srv/data ...and I can't even break it with Ctrl+C. The single workaround (for a while) is to reboot the NFS client machine, which is not an acceptable solution. I have tried to add the "hard" and "intr" options in the line from /etc/fstab that mounts /srv/data, hoping that at least I will be able to break that frozen directory with Ctrl+C, but nothing changed. It is strange that this issue happens only with the 2 computers that run under Ubuntu and Debian, but not with other computers that mount other directories from that NFS server that runs FreeBSD (They use Fedora and CentOS). I have searched on the net for this, but I couldn't find anything helpful. Please tell me if you have any idea what could be the problem or if you have some suggestions for this issue. Thank you. Octavian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/233443cc5f854a00bf1d2c18890f1...@teddy
Japanese KNOPPIX is a laucher of "virtual appliance" for Debian and Ubuntu
Dear, Japanese KNOPPIX6.2DVD includes "OS Circular" which is a kind of "virtual appliance". http://www.rcis.aist.go.jp/project/knoppix/knoppix62DVD-en.html OS Circular offers disk images of Debian and Ubuntu with LBCAS (LoopBack Content Addressable Storage). It enables us to boot Debian or Ubuntu on KVM or KQEMU without installation. The disk images of Debian and Ubuntu are updated weekly and allow to roll-back to previous images. Please try. :-) http://openlab.ring.gr.jp/oscircular/ Current Transferable OS (weekly updated) English Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic20091109 - English Ubuntu 9.04 Jaunty20090508 - 20091030 English Ubuntu 8.10 Intrepid 20081107 - 20090501 English Debian 5.0 Lenny 20081107 - The deb packages are downloadable from following. You can install on your Debian or Ubuntu. binary http://www.rcis.aist.go.jp/project/knoppix/download/httpfusevm-scripts_0.1-8_all.deb http://www.rcis.aist.go.jp/project/knoppix/download/httpstoraged_1.2-1_i386.deb source http://www.rcis.aist.go.jp/project/knoppix/download/httpfusevm-script_0.1-8-src.zip http://www.rcis.aist.go.jp/project/knoppix/download/httpstoraged_1.2-1-src.zip The optimization was presented at Linux Symposium 2009 (Montreal). Kuniyasu Suzaki, Kengo Iijima, Toshiki Yagi, Nguyen Anh Quynh, and Yoshihito Watanabe "Effect of readahead and file system block reallocation for LBCAS (LoopBack Content Addressable Storage)" http://www.kernel.org/doc/ols/2009/ols2009-pages-275-286.pdf # Japanese KNOPPIX6.2DVD is customized by LCAT(Live CD Acceleration Tool kit) and makes quick boot. # The YouTube Video shows it could boot 3 times faster than the original. It works for launcher of "virtual appliance". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAd_dnY8ltI -- suzaki -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: mixing debian and ubuntu [WAS] Re:
On Sun, 2009-06-21 at 09:56 -0400, Celejar wrote: > On 21 Jun 2009 07:31:11 - > "sai ram" wrote: > > > Dear Friends! > > I use Ubuntu Dapper Drake (on x86 pc) and wanted to install "isomaster" > > software package about which I read in a linux magazine. As this package > > was unavailable in my synaptic package manager with Ubuntu repositories, Mixing distributions is a bad idea. If you need more recent versions, you should consider upgrading to a more recent version of Ubuntu (or Debian ;) > > I downloaded the package from Debian website. If you don't want to upgrade your distro, you should pick the package from a distribution as close from the orignal as possible. In this situation, http:// packages.ubuntu.com/isomaster says it's from Hardy. But again Mixing distributions is a bad idea (Of course, it is likely to solve your current problem, but it is also likely that you will face some [compatibility] problems that no one have). > > While attempting the installation, I encountered dependency errors. > I believe these errors can be overcome by adding appropriate Debian > repositories to the etc/apt/sources.list file of my Ubuntu OS. > > (3) give me the exact debian package source location lines, that I > need to add to my etc/sources.list file, so I can henceforth install > packages from Debian repositories without any dependency errors. > > deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free BTW, the URL are http://ftp.XX.debian.org (the http.us.debian.org exists for backward compatibility) Franklin -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
mixing debian and ubuntu [WAS] Re:
On 21 Jun 2009 07:31:11 - "sai ram" wrote: > Dear Friends! > I use Ubuntu Dapper Drake (on x86 pc) and wanted to install "isomaster" > software package about which I read in a linux magazine. As this package was > unavailable in my synaptic package manager with Ubuntu repositories, I > downloaded the package from Debian website. > While attempting the installation, I encountered dependency errors. I believe > these errors can be overcome by adding appropriate Debian repositories to the > etc/apt/sources.list file of my Ubuntu OS. > > Please > > (1) clarify if I can have both Ubuntu repositories and debian repositories > enabled at the same time ? No idea. > (2) Do I need any key to access the Debian repositories ? http://wiki.debian.org/SecureApt > (3) give me the exact debian package source location lines, that I need to > add to my etc/sources.list file, so I can henceforth install packages from > Debian repositories without any dependency errors. deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free You may want a different mirror, flavor, or list of sections. Celejar -- mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
On Saturday 02 May 2009 19:02:42 Christofer C. Bell wrote: > There's nothing special about how Ubuntu does it. In fact, when you > install Etch you can have the Ubuntu behavior at installation time (when it > prompts for a root password, select Cancel, then in the installer menu, > select the option for configuring user accounts and select "No" when it > asks if you want to allow root to have a password). It's all pretty > self-explanatory in the installer. This option was removed in Lenny's > installer. Actually, it's still in the installer. The debconf priority was lowered, but you can still set the option in a preseed file, or by telling the installer to lower the priority of debconf, or by passing priority=low to the installer. > > Anyway, again, not criticizing your desire to have a root password, I'm > simply pointing out that there's nothing special about what Ubuntu is doing > and if you want to have a root password on Ubuntu and use Ubuntu, you can. I had to figure that out on my own, long ago. What they did do, that wasn't always trivial is modify many of the graphical "su" programs to use sudo instead of "su", which helps bypass the need for a root password. Also, the default for Aptitude::Get-Root-Command on debian is "su", while it's "sudo" on ubuntu. Also, the sudo on ubuntu seems to have its authentication timestamps tied to the terminal/shell (I don't know which) that originally authenticated. So, if you are using sudo in one terminal, then quickly start another terminal and use sudo in that terminal, you will have to authenticate again. -- Thanks: Joseph Rawson signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [OT] Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 11:09:22PM -0500, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: > In <20090506023930.gb12...@samad.com.au>, Alex Samad wrote: > >how can you create files in $HOME that the owner of $HOME can't delete > >? > > b...@monster:~$ sudo mkdir data > [sudo] password for bss: > b...@monster:~$ sudo touch data/file > b...@monster:~$ rm -rf data > rm: cannot remove `data/file': Permission denied > b...@monster:~$ ls -ld data > drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 72 2009-05-05 23:07 data > b...@monster:~$ rmdir data > rmdir: failed to remove `data': Directory not empty yes, had a brain fart, forgot you have to do a depth first deletion -- "Let me just first tell you that I�ve never been more convinced that the decisions I made are the right decisions." - George W. Bush 09/12/2006 Washington, DC said to journalists in the Oval Office (as reported by the National Review) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: [OT] Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
In <20090506023930.gb12...@samad.com.au>, Alex Samad wrote: >how can you create files in $HOME that the owner of $HOME can't delete >? b...@monster:~$ sudo mkdir data [sudo] password for bss: b...@monster:~$ sudo touch data/file b...@monster:~$ rm -rf data rm: cannot remove `data/file': Permission denied b...@monster:~$ ls -ld data drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 72 2009-05-05 23:07 data b...@monster:~$ rmdir data rmdir: failed to remove `data': Directory not empty -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[OT] Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
On Mon, May 04, 2009 at 03:36:50PM +0100, Harry Rickards wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Daniel Burrows wrote: > > On Mon, May 04, 2009 at 08:51:28AM +0300, Andrei Popescu > > was heard to say: > >> On Sun,03.May.09, 10:18:49, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: [snip] > > But if they can run aptitude in the first place, surely they could > either su to root or use sudo to read or delete the files. Just my opinion. how can you create files in $HOME that the owner of $HOME can't delete ? [snip] > signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
On Sat, 2 May 2009 17:51:35 +0800 (WST) Bret Busby wrote: ... > On this desktop computer, I also dual boot into Ubuntu 8.04. Ubuntu 8.04 > can do things that I have been unable to do with Debian 4.0, such as > viewing .wmv files. I can view wmv files fine on my Debian Sid; can you provide an example of a problematic wmv? Celejar -- mailmin.sourceforge.net - remote access via secure (OpenPGP) email ssuds.sourceforge.net - A Simple Sudoku Solver and Generator -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
On Monday 04 May 2009 19:10:44 Harry Rickards wrote: > Paul Johnson wrote: > > Harry Rickards wrote: > >> But if they can run aptitude in the first place, surely they could > >> either su to root or use sudo to read or delete the files. Just my > >> opinion. > > > > Aptitude doesn't need root to run. I tell my users to check aptitude if > > they want to find out if I'm willing to install it (largely because I'm > > lazy and running a hobby system). You only need root to commit changes. > > Sorry, yeah I was thinking of aptitude as in 'aptitude install bash', > not aptitude as the gui-based tool. This applies just as much to the CLI. Aptitude will run for any user, but only root can commit changes. I frequently run aptitude at at the CLI as an ordinary user to use e.g. search, and then change to root if I decide to install. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
On 4 May 2009, at 21:01, Andrei Popescu wrote: On Mon,04.May.09, 19:10:44, Harry Rickards wrote: Sorry, yeah I was thinking of aptitude as in 'aptitude install bash', not aptitude as the gui-based tool. aptitude search interesting_package Yeah, there's that as well. Many thanks Harry Rickards (a.k.a l33tmyst) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
On Mon,04.May.09, 19:10:44, Harry Rickards wrote: > Sorry, yeah I was thinking of aptitude as in 'aptitude install bash', > not aptitude as the gui-based tool. aptitude search interesting_package ;) Regards, Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Johnson wrote: > Harry Rickards wrote: > >> But if they can run aptitude in the first place, surely they could >> either su to root or use sudo to read or delete the files. Just my opinion. > > Aptitude doesn't need root to run. I tell my users to check aptitude if > they want to find out if I'm willing to install it (largely because I'm > lazy and running a hobby system). You only need root to commit changes. > > Sorry, yeah I was thinking of aptitude as in 'aptitude install bash', not aptitude as the gui-based tool. - -- Many thanks Harry Rickards (a.k.a l33tmyst) - -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GAT/GCM/GCS/GCC/GIT/GM d? s: a? C UL P- L+++ E--- W+++ N o K+ w--- O- M- V- PS+ PE Y+ PGP++ t 5 X R tv-- b+++ DI D G e* h! !r y? - --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkn/L6QACgkQ1kZz3mRu0GoqJACgkk3wPoK9knuRtAktr8L4F97C 8WoAnRwwA7Bbzpy6OAT6C8l8KjxFUA8i =IWLE -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
Harry Rickards wrote: > But if they can run aptitude in the first place, surely they could > either su to root or use sudo to read or delete the files. Just my opinion. Aptitude doesn't need root to run. I tell my users to check aptitude if they want to find out if I'm willing to install it (largely because I'm lazy and running a hobby system). You only need root to commit changes. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
On Mon, May 04, 2009 at 08:51:28AM +0300, Andrei Popescu was heard to say: > On Sun,03.May.09, 10:18:49, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: > > > However, does the package management software (as aptitude does) store > > user preferences in the home directory? If, for example, you always run > > aptitude as yourself then give it the root password when prompted, it > > stores your preferences in your home directory. If you later run > > aptitude as root, those prefernces won't be active. Also, vis-versa. > > It's a bit more weird than this (I thought about filing a whishlist > bug): when you start aptitude as user it uses his preferences, but as > soon as you switch to root (via the menu items or when prompted) > aptitude also switches to root's preferences. Kinda' confusing. There's a long and fairly tortured history behind which configuration aptitude uses when. Basically: if aptitude uses $HOME instead of changing to /root, then it'll end up sticking root-owned files inside the user's home directory, including files the user might not be able to read and/or delete. Daniel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Daniel Burrows wrote: > On Mon, May 04, 2009 at 08:51:28AM +0300, Andrei Popescu > was heard to say: >> On Sun,03.May.09, 10:18:49, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: >> >>> However, does the package management software (as aptitude does) store >>> user preferences in the home directory? If, for example, you always run >>> aptitude as yourself then give it the root password when prompted, it >>> stores your preferences in your home directory. If you later run >>> aptitude as root, those prefernces won't be active. Also, vis-versa. >> It's a bit more weird than this (I thought about filing a whishlist >> bug): when you start aptitude as user it uses his preferences, but as >> soon as you switch to root (via the menu items or when prompted) >> aptitude also switches to root's preferences. Kinda' confusing. > > There's a long and fairly tortured history behind which configuration > aptitude uses when. Basically: if aptitude uses $HOME instead of > changing to /root, then it'll end up sticking root-owned files inside > the user's home directory, including files the user might not be able to > read and/or delete. > But if they can run aptitude in the first place, surely they could either su to root or use sudo to read or delete the files. Just my opinion. - -- Many thanks Harry Rickards (a.k.a l33tmyst) - -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GAT/GCM/GCS/GCC/GIT/GM d? s: a? C UL P- L+++ E--- W+++ N o K+ w--- O- M- V- PS+ PE Y+ PGP++ t 5 X R tv-- b+++ DI D G e* h! !r y? - --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkn+/YIACgkQ1kZz3mRu0GqMnQCfYkMEPo6sgtxTWxvTQnbLH4Am yI4AoN+Aikaa65Ch3r7Ipn+A4jLHgXSw =goWH -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
On Mon, May 04, 2009 at 08:51:28AM +0300, Andrei Popescu wrote: > On Sun,03.May.09, 10:18:49, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: > > > However, does the package management software (as aptitude does) store > > user preferences in the home directory? If, for example, you always run > > aptitude as yourself then give it the root password when prompted, it > > stores your preferences in your home directory. If you later run > > aptitude as root, those prefernces won't be active. Also, vis-versa. > > It's a bit more weird than this (I thought about filing a whishlist > bug): when you start aptitude as user it uses his preferences, but as > soon as you switch to root (via the menu items or when prompted) > aptitude also switches to root's preferences. Kinda' confusing. It is not just aptitude, but generic problem for becoming root and chosing home directory: $ env|grep HOME HOME=/home/osamu $ sudo env|grep HOME HOME=/home/osamu $ su -c env|grep HOME Password: HOME=/root $ sudo -H env|grep HOME HOME=/root sudo reset most environment variable but $HOME. Any softwares which use $HOME to decide configuration needs to be careful about this thing. Osamu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
On Sun,03.May.09, 10:18:49, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: > However, does the package management software (as aptitude does) store > user preferences in the home directory? If, for example, you always run > aptitude as yourself then give it the root password when prompted, it > stores your preferences in your home directory. If you later run > aptitude as root, those prefernces won't be active. Also, vis-versa. It's a bit more weird than this (I thought about filing a whishlist bug): when you start aptitude as user it uses his preferences, but as soon as you switch to root (via the menu items or when prompted) aptitude also switches to root's preferences. Kinda' confusing. Regards, Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
2009/5/4 Mark Allums : > Raquel wrote: >> I don't think that aptitude will run as $user, Douglas. It always >> runs as root. At least, that's what it's always told me when I've >> mistakenly tried to run it as $user. > > It runs as user (in GUI mode), but it won't attempt to make changes to the > system until you authenticate as root (become root). > > In command-line, I guess you must be root. But you can use sudo -c "exec > aptitude", I think, or something similar, if you are weird enough. > > Mark Allums In CLI mode it will run as user for no changes to the system. Adrian -- 24x7x365 != 24x7x52 Stupid or bad maths? hm. I've lost a machine.. literally _lost_. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
Raquel wrote: On Sun, 3 May 2009 10:18:49 -0400 "Douglas A. Tutty" wrote: On Sun, May 03, 2009 at 07:29:07AM -0500, John Hasler wrote: Bret Busby wrote: Before I try it, please advise whether, in removing the sudo facility for users, the package management (both adding/removing packages, and, downloading and installing updates, and using synaptic) will work by entering only the root password. The package management software just needs root privileges. It doesn't care how it got them. Nobody is suggesting anything exotic here. Sudo is intended to be configured by the system administrator. That's you. However, does the package management software (as aptitude does) store user preferences in the home directory? If, for example, you always run aptitude as yourself then give it the root password when prompted, it stores your preferences in your home directory. If you later run aptitude as root, those prefernces won't be active. Also, vis-versa. Doug. I don't think that aptitude will run as $user, Douglas. It always runs as root. At least, that's what it's always told me when I've mistakenly tried to run it as $user. It runs as user (in GUI mode), but it won't attempt to make changes to the system until you authenticate as root (become root). In command-line, I guess you must be root. But you can use sudo -c "exec aptitude", I think, or something similar, if you are weird enough. Mark Allums -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
On Sun, 3 May 2009 10:18:49 -0400 "Douglas A. Tutty" wrote: > On Sun, May 03, 2009 at 07:29:07AM -0500, John Hasler wrote: > > Bret Busby wrote: > > > Before I try it, please advise whether, in removing the sudo > > > facility for users, the package management (both > > > adding/removing packages, and, downloading and installing > > > updates, and using synaptic) will work by entering only the > > > root password. > > > > The package management software just needs root privileges. It > > doesn't care how it got them. > > > > Nobody is suggesting anything exotic here. Sudo is intended to be > > configured by the system administrator. That's you. > > However, does the package management software (as aptitude does) > store user preferences in the home directory? If, for example, you > always run aptitude as yourself then give it the root password when > prompted, it stores your preferences in your home directory. If > you later run aptitude as root, those prefernces won't be active. > Also, vis-versa. > > Doug. > I don't think that aptitude will run as $user, Douglas. It always runs as root. At least, that's what it's always told me when I've mistakenly tried to run it as $user. -- Raquel http://www.byraquel.com They may forget what you said, but they will never forget how you made them feel. --Carl W. Buechner -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
> [...] If you later run > aptitude as root, those prefernces won't be active. Also, vis-versa. So copy them? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
On Sun, May 03, 2009 at 07:29:07AM -0500, John Hasler wrote: > Bret Busby wrote: > > Before I try it, please advise whether, in removing the sudo facility for > > users, the package management (both adding/removing packages, and, > > downloading and installing updates, and using synaptic) will work by > > entering only the root password. > > The package management software just needs root privileges. It doesn't > care how it got them. > > Nobody is suggesting anything exotic here. Sudo is intended to be > configured by the system administrator. That's you. However, does the package management software (as aptitude does) store user preferences in the home directory? If, for example, you always run aptitude as yourself then give it the root password when prompted, it stores your preferences in your home directory. If you later run aptitude as root, those prefernces won't be active. Also, vis-versa. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
Bret Busby wrote: > Before I try it, please advise whether, in removing the sudo facility for > users, the package management (both adding/removing packages, and, > downloading and installing updates, and using synaptic) will work by > entering only the root password. The package management software just needs root privileges. It doesn't care how it got them. Nobody is suggesting anything exotic here. Sudo is intended to be configured by the system administrator. That's you. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
On Sat,02.May.09, 20:07:30, Nate Bargmann wrote: > And for anyone that wants a root prompt without disabling sudo, the > folowing command has worked for me on the various 'buntus: > > `sudo su' Why not 'sudo -i' (I'm trying to keep it simple and no involve two programs if avoidable)? Regards, Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 9:44 PM, Bret Busby wrote: > > Thank you for that. > > Before I try it, please advise whether, in removing the sudo facility for > users, the package management (both adding/removing packages, and, > downloading and installing updates, and using synaptic) will work by > entering only the root password. > > Thank you in anticipation. Yes, that's correct. You will be required to enter the root password when you're trying to use a system administration tool that requires root access. -- Chris
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
On Sat, 2 May 2009, Christofer C. Bell wrote: On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 4:51 AM, Bret Busby wrote: On this computer, a desktop, I usually run Debian 4.0. I find it more convenient, for most things, and I do not like the sudo that Ubuntu uses; I prefer su - root. Before people start criticising that preference, it it my preference, and, it is up to each individual, to choose the person's preference, for whatever reasons that person makes the choice. That is one reason for preferring Debian for the servers; the requirement of a root password, for sysadmin, rather than being able to do sysadmin using a user password is preferable, for me. I'm not looking to criticize your choice, but the setting on Ubuntu to lock root and use sudo is configurable (and you can, in fact, duplicate it on Debian if you want). If you want to use a root password on Ubuntu, simply set one and then delete the configuration from /etc/sudoers that allows your username to use sudo. $ sudo passwd root $ su - root # visudo And so on. I'm sure you can find the line in there, it will be of the format: username ALL=(ALL) ALL Then save the file and sudo is no longer possible for your user account. To duplicate the behavior on Debian, you do something similar: $ su - root # visudo # passwd -l root Adding the above line to sudoers (which opens automatically when you invoke visudo). This will give your account sudo access and lock the root account (as Ubuntu does). There's nothing special about how Ubuntu does it. In fact, when you install Etch you can have the Ubuntu behavior at installation time (when it prompts for a root password, select Cancel, then in the installer menu, select the option for configuring user accounts and select "No" when it asks if you want to allow root to have a password). It's all pretty self-explanatory in the installer. This option was removed in Lenny's installer. Anyway, again, not criticizing your desire to have a root password, I'm simply pointing out that there's nothing special about what Ubuntu is doing and if you want to have a root password on Ubuntu and use Ubuntu, you can. -- Chris Thank you for that. Before I try it, please advise whether, in removing the sudo facility for users, the package management (both adding/removing packages, and, downloading and installing updates, and using synaptic) will work by entering only the root password. Thank you in anticipation. -- Bret Busby Armadale West Australia .. "So once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means." - Deep Thought, Chapter 28 of Book 1 of "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: A Trilogy In Four Parts", written by Douglas Adams, published by Pan Books, 1992 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu - sudo vs. su
On Sat, May 02, 2009 at 08:02:42PM EDT, Christofer C. Bell wrote: > On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 4:51 AM, Bret Busby wrote: > I'm not looking to criticize your choice, but the setting on Ubuntu to > lock root and use sudo is configurable (and you can, in fact, > duplicate it on Debian if you want). If you want to use a root > password on Ubuntu, simply set one and then delete the configuration > from /etc/sudoers that allows your username to use sudo. > $ sudo passwd root > $ su - root > # visudo > > And so on. I'm sure you can find the line in there, it will be of the > format: > > username ALL=(ALL) ALL > > Then save the file and sudo is no longer possible for your user account. > > To duplicate the behavior on Debian, you do something similar: > > $ su - root > # visudo > # passwd -l root > Adding the above line to sudoers (which opens automatically when you > invoke visudo). This will give your account sudo access and lock the > root account (as Ubuntu does). > There's nothing special about how Ubuntu does it. In fact, when you > install Etch you can have the Ubuntu behavior at installation time > (when it prompts for a root password, select Cancel, then in the > installer menu, select the option for configuring user accounts and > select "No" when it asks if you want to allow root to have a > password). It's all pretty self-explanatory in the installer. This > option was removed in Lenny's installer. > Anyway, again, not criticizing your desire to have a root password, > I'm simply pointing out that there's nothing special about what Ubuntu > is doing and if you want to have a root password on Ubuntu and use > Ubuntu, you can. Nice mini-howto - did that.. couldn't get used to that sudo thing myself on ubuntu :-) Changed "Subject:" .. may make it easier to google for. CJ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
And for anyone that wants a root prompt without disabling sudo, the folowing command has worked for me on the various 'buntus: `sudo su' - Nate >> -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://n0nb.us/index.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 4:51 AM, Bret Busby wrote: > > On this computer, a desktop, I usually run Debian 4.0. I find it more > convenient, for most things, and I do not like the sudo that Ubuntu uses; I > prefer su - root. Before people start criticising that preference, it it my > preference, and, it is up to each individual, to choose the person's > preference, for whatever reasons that person makes the choice. That is one > reason for preferring Debian for the servers; the requirement of a root > password, for sysadmin, rather than being able to do sysadmin using a user > password is preferable, for me. I'm not looking to criticize your choice, but the setting on Ubuntu to lock root and use sudo is configurable (and you can, in fact, duplicate it on Debian if you want). If you want to use a root password on Ubuntu, simply set one and then delete the configuration from /etc/sudoers that allows your username to use sudo. $ sudo passwd root $ su - root # visudo And so on. I'm sure you can find the line in there, it will be of the format: username ALL=(ALL) ALL Then save the file and sudo is no longer possible for your user account. To duplicate the behavior on Debian, you do something similar: $ su - root # visudo # passwd -l root Adding the above line to sudoers (which opens automatically when you invoke visudo). This will give your account sudo access and lock the root account (as Ubuntu does). There's nothing special about how Ubuntu does it. In fact, when you install Etch you can have the Ubuntu behavior at installation time (when it prompts for a root password, select Cancel, then in the installer menu, select the option for configuring user accounts and select "No" when it asks if you want to allow root to have a password). It's all pretty self-explanatory in the installer. This option was removed in Lenny's installer. Anyway, again, not criticizing your desire to have a root password, I'm simply pointing out that there's nothing special about what Ubuntu is doing and if you want to have a root password on Ubuntu and use Ubuntu, you can. -- Chris
Re: debian and ubuntu - answer from user not pretending to be guru
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009, prad wrote: we use (and support) both, but i'd like to establish a rationale for using one or the other. are there situations where debian is preferable (eg older hardware)? are there situations where ubuntu is preferable (eg picking up newer hardware)? what's better for use on a server? ubuntu has a server edition (with an excellent guide), but is it any different from debian? i personally like debian's slow cycle - i don't like to upgrade if i can help it. my son, on the otherhand, likes to try the new stuff whenever possible. i would like to see some opinions and personal experiences regarding these 2 excellent systems! -- In friendship, prad In the responses that I have seen so far in this thread, the thread has apparently degenerated into a one-upmanship battle; where the main response sems to be "I know better and more than anyone else". Well, I do not know better and more than anyone else. I am a Linux User, and I will not pretend to be an expert (Definition: "An expert is a drip under pressure"). I use both Ubuntu 8.04 and Debian 4.0. I have been using Debian 3.0, 3.1, and 4.0. I have also got Debian 5.0 installed on my laptop. I have tried Ubuntu 8.10, then upgraded it to 8.04 (yes, 8.04, not 9.04). I have been using Linux since Red Hat 4.0 (I think it was, and I definitely remember having 5.0 and later that I was using, until Red hat went the same way as Microsoft, and ended up putting out a version that simply would not run on the software that its said it would run on (version 9.0, I think), and that version of Slackware that was current at that time. When I started using Linux, it was the first derivative of UNIX that I had used, with a GUI. before that, I had used BSD v4.2, and SCO UNIX VR2 (or R3). With the question above, that involves Debian and Ubuntu, we have a LAN that uses Debian on the servers (a gateway firewall server, and, a mailserver), and Debian and Ubuntu on the nodes, which include this desktop, and some laptops. The gateway/firewall server runs a Smoothwall (Express, I think) installation which has its underlying OS as Debian 3.0 or Debian 3.1 . Due to the way that it is, I do not know how to properly upgrade it - it is a "blackbox" kind of thing, and is basically left alone, as it is neither clear nor simple, how to update and upgrade it to the latest version of Debian stable, if it can be so upgraded. The mailserver runs Debian 4.0. That runs fetchmail and postfix. Updating that, is easy and simple, using apt-get update, and apt-get dist-upgrade. On this computer, a desktop, I usually run Debian 4.0. I find it more convenient, for most things, and I do not like the sudo that Ubuntu uses; I prefer su - root. Before people start criticising that preference, it it my preference, and, it is up to each individual, to choose the person's preference, for whatever reasons that person makes the choice. That is one reason for preferring Debian for the servers; the requirement of a root password, for sysadmin, rather than being able to do sysadmin using a user password is preferable, for me. On this desktop computer, I also dual boot into Ubuntu 8.04. Ubuntu 8.04 can do things that I have been unable to do with Debian 4.0, such as viewing .wmv files. Each of the two distributions has its advantages on a desktop computer. On my laptop computer, I multi-boot, between Windows XP, Ubuntu 8.04, and now Debian 5.0 (previously Debian 4.0). My laptop computer is an HP NX5000. It has a wireless network card (a\nasty things - I would get rid of it, if I knew how). When we initially installed Debian 3.1 on that laptop, which was purchased with Windows XP installed, we had to use Mandriva to repartion it (Mandriva had a dynamic (?) partitioning utility), then install Ubuntu on it, then unistall Ubuntu and install Debian, as the wireless network card had an interrupt conflict with the wired network card, and it was a problem that was automatically (or, easily) resolved with Ubuntu, whereas Debian simply would not work with it. I think that was done with Ubuntu 7.04. When Debian 4.0 was installed on that laptop, it would not resolve the interrupt conflict, and Ubuntu had to be used again, to solve the interrupt conflict. With installing Ubuntu on that laptop, having a 10GB partition free, I finally decided to install Ubuntu into that partition, and, installed 8.10, as the latest Ubuntu version. Like the Split Enz song said, "That was my mistake". It ran okay, until I did an update on it, and, basically, Ubuntu killed itself. Everything broke. So, in response to a query posted on a mailing list, and as Ubuntu 8.10 seemed to conform to the Debian Sid principle - from http://www.debian.org/releases/unstable/ ; "Use it at your own risk!", and, from http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-ftparchives#s-sid ; "Sid was
Re: debian and ubuntu
>> Installing for new Linux users, hardware that does not have good FOSS >> drivers, very tolerant community > > I can't say the situation is any better for Windows users in this > regard, especially video drivers. At least Linux users are somewhat > less screwed in that they still have a machine functional enough to > complain about it on the internet without having working graphics. > > You should see some of the problems users of OpenGL on Windows face. > The Second Life forums at http://forums.secondlife.com/ have many > threads from Windows users trying to get the latest nvidia and ATI > drivers working with OpenGL on Windows. At least for gamers and Second > Life users, Linux is downright cuddly by comparison. > I must have misunderstood. I thought that the OP was asking about comparing Debian to _Ubuntu_, not Windows. Sorry. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
Dotan Cohen wrote: >> are there situations where debian is preferable (eg older hardware)? > > Extreme devotion to FOSS ideals, environments where security and > stability are most important. > >> are there situations where ubuntu is preferable (eg picking up newer >> hardware)? >> > > Installing for new Linux users, hardware that does not have good FOSS > drivers, very tolerant community I can't say the situation is any better for Windows users in this regard, especially video drivers. At least Linux users are somewhat less screwed in that they still have a machine functional enough to complain about it on the internet without having working graphics. You should see some of the problems users of OpenGL on Windows face. The Second Life forums at http://forums.secondlife.com/ have many threads from Windows users trying to get the latest nvidia and ATI drivers working with OpenGL on Windows. At least for gamers and Second Life users, Linux is downright cuddly by comparison. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: debian and ubuntu
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 21:17:37 -0500, Mark Allums posted: [...] > :) ;) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
> I never really paid attention to Ubuntu's package selection, however, > since I used a stock configuration most of the time. Does anyone know > if Ubuntu has the same vast package selection as Debian? Just > wondering... > That depends more on your needs than anything. Ubuntu does have a vast amount of software available, that is for sure. What specific unusual applications do you need? -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
Petrus Validus wrote: i would like to see some opinions and personal experiences regarding these 2 excellent systems! I used to use Ubuntu back in the 5.10 and 6.06 days for about a year or so as a desktop. I liked it and it was alright but Debian's stability and performance won me over! I never really paid attention to Ubuntu's package selection, however, since I used a stock configuration most of the time. Does anyone know if Ubuntu has the same vast package selection as Debian? Just wondering... More or less, yes. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 10:25:35PM EDT, Kent West wrote: [..] > "Ubuntu" is an African word meaning "I can't figure out how to install > Debian". After all, there is such a thing as miracles.. at long last s/o is bringing a bit of sense to this nonsense. And, I really mean.. Thanks, CJ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Zhengquan Zhang wrote: > On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 07:32:43PM -0700, paragasu wrote: >> ubuntu == debian testing, >> >> if you think debian outdated, try debian unstable. > > The problem is this, debian is definetly stable for server. But after > one or two years after the stable release. The devs on the server will > want the latest ruby, latest blabla... we only provide services for c/c++ devs, not for script devs. (joke:) > > -- > Zhengquan > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org > > -- My platform is debian-sid-amd64 gnome kdevelop. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
Thorny wrote: > On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 23:40:47 -0500, Mark Allums posted: > > >> paragasu wrote: >> >>> ubuntu == debian testing, >>> >>> if you think debian outdated, try debian unstable. >>> >>> >>> >> ubuntu = debian unstable >> > > Ubuntu=(a snapshot of Debian unstable at the time)!=Debian unstable. > > > > I don't know if it's been said in this particular thread or not (I haven't been paying that close of attention), but it's been said before: "Ubuntu" is an African word meaning "I can't figure out how to install Debian". -- Kent -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
Thorny wrote: On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 23:40:47 -0500, Mark Allums posted: paragasu wrote: ubuntu == debian testing, if you think debian outdated, try debian unstable. ubuntu = debian unstable Ubuntu=(a snapshot of Debian unstable at the time)!=Debian unstable. Note, I used an assignment operator, not an equivalence operator. :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
> i would like to see some opinions and personal experiences regarding > these 2 excellent systems! I used to use Ubuntu back in the 5.10 and 6.06 days for about a year or so as a desktop. I liked it and it was alright but Debian's stability and performance won me over! I never really paid attention to Ubuntu's package selection, however, since I used a stock configuration most of the time. Does anyone know if Ubuntu has the same vast package selection as Debian? Just wondering... -- Petrus Validus petrus.vali...@gmail.com AIM: Petrus Validus www.unix-interest.net -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
> are there situations where debian is preferable (eg older hardware)? Extreme devotion to FOSS ideals, environments where security and stability are most important. > are there situations where ubuntu is preferable (eg picking up newer > hardware)? > Installing for new Linux users, hardware that does not have good FOSS drivers, very tolerant community > what's better for use on a server? ubuntu has a server edition (with an > excellent guide), but is it any different from debian? > hahahaha... Debian! While Ubuntu might not be bad for a server, Ubuntu's advantages have no bearing here. > i personally like debian's slow cycle - i don't like to upgrade if i > can help it. my son, on the otherhand, likes to try the new stuff > whenever possible. > You: Debian. Your son: (don't hate me) Fedora. Really! In any case, it will get some knowledge of OS diversity in the house. And give you guys something to debate over dinner. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
In <6b1504c40904260811h249ac7d4m14cc7d9b40c51...@mail.gmail.com>, Nuno Magalhães wrote: >Slightly OT-ish, but if i want to install an Ubuntu package on Debian. >should i use dpkg -i or alien? Not alien. dpkg -i is a start, but it might fail. If it does, use the .dsc to build new .deb. If that doesn't fail, the resulting package will most likely install. (Ultimately, there are no guarantees that Debian packages will work on Ubuntu or vice-versa, just like a random RPM might or might not work on a distribution other than the one it was built on.) -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: debian and ubuntu
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:00:15 -0700 prad wrote: > we use (and support) both, but i'd like to establish a rationale for > using one or the other. > > are there situations where debian is preferable (eg older hardware)? > are there situations where ubuntu is preferable (eg picking up newer > hardware)? > > what's better for use on a server? ubuntu has a server edition > (with an excellent guide), but is it any different from debian? > > i personally like debian's slow cycle - i don't like to upgrade if i > can help it. my son, on the otherhand, likes to try the new stuff > whenever possible. > > i would like to see some opinions and personal experiences regarding > these 2 excellent systems! > > -- > In friendship, > prad I think that as this thread has digressed, it can be seen that either camp, Debian/Ubuntu, has their own beliefs. The takeaway seems to be that you have to tailor your response to your clients. Do they seem to be the kind that would favor one belief over another? Then you make your recommendation fit them rather than try to mold them into your dogma. -- Raquel http://www.byraquel.com The important thing is not to stop questioning. --Albert Einstein -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
> we use (and support) both, but i'd like to establish a rationale for > using one or the other. > are there situations where debian is preferable (eg older hardware)? > are there situations where ubuntu is preferable (eg picking up newer > hardware)? I my mind, the difference between the two is: - Ubuntu doesn't care as much about Free Software, so it is prefectly happy to encourage the use of proprietary software (e.g. drivers). So if care about Free Software, you may prefer Debian (or GNewSense of course, which is a cleaned up version of Ubuntu). - Ubuntu has a short release cycle, so you do get "releases" (like Debian "stable"), but with more cutting-edge versions (like Debian "unstable"). Depending on your point of view, this means you get the best of both worlds, or it means you get the worst of both worlds. I personally hate "releases" and don't need/want cutting edge code (other than the one I write), so I much prefer Debian "testing". -- Stefan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
Miles Fidelman writes: > install from the upstream source I'd try installing from the Ubuntu source. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
2009/4/26 Nuno Magalhães > 2009/4/26 Johan Grönqvist : > > I prefer debian whenever I want to use packages that (in ubuntu) belong > to > > the universe category. I find that in my personal experience, packages in > > debian main seem more reliable than ubuntu universe. > > > > I find that I rather often want to have some package installed that does > not > > belong to ubuntu's main repository, but do belong to debian's main > > repository. > > Slightly OT-ish, but if i want to install an Ubuntu package on Debian. > should i use dpkg -i or alien? > > rebuild the deb files using foo.dsc and so on from ubuntu
Re: debian and ubuntu
Robert Hodgins wrote: On Sun, 2009-04-26 at 16:11 +0100, Nuno Magalhães wrote: Slightly OT-ish, but if i want to install an Ubuntu package on Debian. should i use dpkg -i or alien? I wouldn't try to install an Ubuntu package on Debian. Ditto. I'd try: 1. look for the Debian version of the package 2. install from the upstream source -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
On Sun, 2009-04-26 at 16:11 +0100, Nuno Magalhães wrote: > Slightly OT-ish, but if i want to install an Ubuntu package on Debian. > should i use dpkg -i or alien? I wouldn't try to install an Ubuntu package on Debian. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
2009/4/26 Johan Grönqvist : > I prefer debian whenever I want to use packages that (in ubuntu) belong to > the universe category. I find that in my personal experience, packages in > debian main seem more reliable than ubuntu universe. > > I find that I rather often want to have some package installed that does not > belong to ubuntu's main repository, but do belong to debian's main > repository. Slightly OT-ish, but if i want to install an Ubuntu package on Debian. should i use dpkg -i or alien? -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ ascii-rubanda kampajno - kontraŭ html-a retpoŝto -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
prad skrev: we use (and support) both, but i'd like to establish a rationale for using one or the other. are there situations where debian is preferable (eg older hardware)? are there situations where ubuntu is preferable (eg picking up newer hardware)? I prefer debian whenever I want to use packages that (in ubuntu) belong to the universe category. I find that in my personal experience, packages in debian main seem more reliable than ubuntu universe. I find that I rather often want to have some package installed that does not belong to ubuntu's main repository, but do belong to debian's main repository. / johan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 23:40:47 -0500, Mark Allums posted: > paragasu wrote: >> ubuntu == debian testing, >> >> if you think debian outdated, try debian unstable. >> >> > > ubuntu = debian unstable Ubuntu=(a snapshot of Debian unstable at the time)!=Debian unstable. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
On Sun,26.Apr.09, 03:59:01, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: > If you want a commercial support contract, go with Ubuntu and get support > from Canonical. > > I'm not saying you can't get commercial support for Debian, but that the > closest thing to Debian is the a legal entity is SPI, and I don't believe > they provide that support. They don't, but others do: http://www.debian.org/consultants/ (Hint: there are even Debian Developers in that list, but they are not allowed to use the @debian.org address as it would be unfair to the others.) Regards, Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: debian and ubuntu
In <20090425110015.08fe4...@gom>, prad wrote: >we use (and support) both, but i'd like to establish a rationale for >using one or the other. All that follow is just my opinion, but I've tried to justify it so it may be the start of a rational process to guide the decision. If you want a commercial support contract, go with Ubuntu and get support from Canonical. I'm not saying you can't get commercial support for Debian, but that the closest thing to Debian is the a legal entity is SPI, and I don't believe they provide that support. If there are packages in Ubuntu's universe or multiverse not available elsewhere that you need, go with Ubuntu. Even the Debian community probably will not provide much support for packages that are not in Debian. DDs and DMs are generally swamped with their packages. Spending cycles on other packages generally doesn't make sense. For anything else, go with Debian. Even if you don't like Debian's slow release cycles, testing/unstable/experimental and pinning allow you to accelerate the cycle as you need to (mostly). -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. b...@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/\_/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: debian and ubuntu
Mark Allums wrote: > paragasu wrote: >> ubuntu == debian testing, >> >> if you think debian outdated, try debian unstable. >> > > > ubuntu = debian unstable > > ubuntu = a shapely Debian Unstable with lipstick and makeup ;) -- Please reply to this list only. I read this list on its corresponding newsgroup on gmane.org. Replies sent to my email address are just filtered to a folder in my mailbox and get periodically deleted without ever having been read. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
prad wrote: > we use (and support) both, but i'd like to establish a rationale for > using one or the other. > > are there situations where debian is preferable (eg older hardware)? All of them. > are there situations where ubuntu is preferable (eg picking up newer > hardware)? That's like asking if Gentoo is ready for the desktop... signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: debian and ubuntu
Robert Holtzman wrote: > On Sun, 26 Apr 2009, Nuno Magalhães wrote: > >> For servers i'd definitely go for Debian. Ubuntu's commercial and you >> can't be sure if it'll provide support in the future and how. > > Why do you think Ubuntu's commercial? You mean other than it's financial dependence on Canonical, and it being Canonical's ONLY reason for existing? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: debian and ubuntu
On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 07:32:43PM -0700, paragasu wrote: > ubuntu == debian testing, > > if you think debian outdated, try debian unstable. The problem is this, debian is definetly stable for server. But after one or two years after the stable release. The devs on the server will want the latest ruby, latest blabla... -- Zhengquan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 11:00:15AM -0700, prad wrote: > we use (and support) both, but i'd like to establish a rationale for > using one or the other. > > are there situations where debian is preferable (eg older hardware)? > are there situations where ubuntu is preferable (eg picking up newer > hardware)? > > what's better for use on a server? ubuntu has a server edition (with an > excellent guide), but is it any different from debian? > > i personally like debian's slow cycle - i don't like to upgrade if i > can help it. my son, on the otherhand, likes to try the new stuff > whenever possible. > > i would like to see some opinions and personal experiences regarding > these 2 excellent systems! I have the same problem to persuade my collegues to use debian rather ubuntu. I told them ubuntu is just fork of debian sid. -- Zhengquan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
paragasu wrote: ubuntu == debian testing, if you think debian outdated, try debian unstable. ubuntu = debian unstable -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
> Why do you think Ubuntu's commercial? Because they offer for-fee professional support? 2009/4/25 Robert Holtzman : > On Sun, 26 Apr 2009, Nuno Magalhães wrote: > >> For servers i'd definitely go for Debian. Ubuntu's commercial and you >> can't be sure if it'll provide support in the future and how. > > Why do you think Ubuntu's commercial? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009, Nuno Magalhães wrote: For servers i'd definitely go for Debian. Ubuntu's commercial and you can't be sure if it'll provide support in the future and how. Why do you think Ubuntu's commercial? -- Bob Holtzman "If you think you're getting free lunch, check the price of the beer"
Re: debian and ubuntu
ubuntu == debian testing, if you think debian outdated, try debian unstable. On 4/25/09, Nuno Magalhães wrote: > Hi > > For servers i'd definitely go for Debian. Ubuntu's commercial and you > can't be sure if it'll provide support in the future and how. At least > with Debian you know where you're standing at all times. > > I'd still go for Debian over Ubuntu but i'm biased, i'm kind of > allergic to Ubuntu. ;) I'd probably recommend Ubuntu for someone who > was coming from Redmond into GNU/Linux, unless i was doing the > install. > > All in all the big issue is probably the drivers: if you want new > and/or proprietary out-of-the-box, then Ubuntu. > > HTH, > Nuno Magalhães > > -- > () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail > /\ ascii-rubanda kampajno - kontraŭ html-a retpoŝto > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > listmas...@lists.debian.org > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: debian and ubuntu
Hi For servers i'd definitely go for Debian. Ubuntu's commercial and you can't be sure if it'll provide support in the future and how. At least with Debian you know where you're standing at all times. I'd still go for Debian over Ubuntu but i'm biased, i'm kind of allergic to Ubuntu. ;) I'd probably recommend Ubuntu for someone who was coming from Redmond into GNU/Linux, unless i was doing the install. All in all the big issue is probably the drivers: if you want new and/or proprietary out-of-the-box, then Ubuntu. HTH, Nuno Magalhães -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ ascii-rubanda kampajno - kontraŭ html-a retpoŝto -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
RE: debian and ubuntu
> > > > Original Message >From: p...@towardsfreedom.com >To: debian-user@lists.debian.org >Subject: RE: debian and ubuntu >Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:00:15 -0700 > >>we use (and support) both, but i'd like to establish a rationale for >>using one or the other. >> >>are there situations where debian is preferable (eg older hardware)? >>are there situations where ubuntu is preferable (eg picking up newer >>hardware)? >> >>what's better for use on a server? ubuntu has a server edition (with >an >>excellent guide), but is it any different from debian? >> >>i personally like debian's slow cycle - i don't like to upgrade if i >>can help it. my son, on the otherhand, likes to try the new stuff >>whenever possible. >> >>i would like to see some opinions and personal experiences regarding >>these 2 excellent systems! >> >>-- >>In friendship, >>prad >> >> ... with you on your journey >>Towards Freedom >>http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website) >>Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's >> >> >>-- >>To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org >>with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.d >ebian.org >> >> I teach C programming at the local University. I use and recommend Debian for my students in a desktop or server environment, primarily for stability. OTOH I usually recommend Ubuntu for laptops, primarily because the students have bought them recently and many have the latest hardware which require the newer drivers that Ubuntu supports "out of the box" but Debian may not (yet). larry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
debian and ubuntu
we use (and support) both, but i'd like to establish a rationale for using one or the other. are there situations where debian is preferable (eg older hardware)? are there situations where ubuntu is preferable (eg picking up newer hardware)? what's better for use on a server? ubuntu has a server edition (with an excellent guide), but is it any different from debian? i personally like debian's slow cycle - i don't like to upgrade if i can help it. my son, on the otherhand, likes to try the new stuff whenever possible. i would like to see some opinions and personal experiences regarding these 2 excellent systems! -- In friendship, prad ... with you on your journey Towards Freedom http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website) Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Windows programs report 1 cpu, Debian and Ubuntu report 2
John Hasler wrote: Hyperthreading. Hmmm. I see bit 28 - the HyperThreading bit - is set in the feature flags register of the cpu, so that looks like it. I guess I'll let Debian utilize the feature without any input from me :-). As we say in Perl: $many x $thanx; -- Ron Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://savage.net.au/index.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows programs report 1 cpu, Debian and Ubuntu report 2
Hyperthreading. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Windows programs report 1 cpu, Debian and Ubuntu report 2
Problem: Windows programs report 1 cpu, Debian and Ubuntu report 2. Prior art: I've scanned the subjects of debian-user emails from Apr to Nov, but didn't see this problem discussed. Hardware: 2 hard disks, Win2K on 1 and the following on the other... Install history: Thu Nov 1: Debian 4.0 Fri Nov 2: Ubuntu 7.10 Sat Nov 3: Ubuntu 7.04 and then Debian 4.0 and then Ubuntu 7.10 Sun Nov 4: FreeBSD 6.2 and then Debian 4.0 Reports: Hardware as seen by Belarc Security Advisor under Windows: http://savage.net.au/debian.ubuntu/win2k.belarc.report.html (inc mobo) And as seen by CPUINFO under Windows: http://savage.net.au/debian.ubuntu/win2k.cpuinfo.png And as seen by lspci under Debian 4.0: http://savage.net.au/debian.ubuntu/debian.4.0.lspci.log And as seen by lspci under Ubuntu 7.04: http://savage.net.au/debian.ubuntu/ubuntu.7.04.lspci.log And as seen by lspci under Ubuntu 7.10: http://savage.net.au/debian.ubuntu/ubuntu.7.10.lspci.log And as seen by /proc/cpuinfo under Debian 4.0: http://savage.net.au/debian.ubuntu/debian.4.0.proc.cpuinfo.log And as seen by /proc/cpuinfo under Ubuntu 7.04: http://savage.net.au/debian.ubuntu/ubuntu.7.04.proc.cpuinfo.log And as seen by /proc/cpuinfo under Ubuntu 7.10: http://savage.net.au/debian.ubuntu/ubuntu.7.10.proc.cpuinfo.log And as seen by system monitor under Debian 4.0: http://savage.net.au/debian.ubuntu/debian.4.0.system.monitor.png And as seen by system monitor under Ubuntu 7.04: http://savage.net.au/debian.ubuntu/ubuntu.7.04.system.monitor.png And as seen by system monitor under Ubuntu 7.10: http://savage.net.au/debian.ubuntu/ubuntu.7.10.system.monitor.png Any ideas why the OSes don't agree on the CPU count? Please don't bother posting cynicism about Windows, or wild guesses. And, yes, I've heard some dual-core chips with 1 faulty core are sold as mono-core, but even that doesn't explain the discrepancy. TIA. -- Ron Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://savage.net.au/index.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and Ubuntu sharing apt-cacher?
On Monday, 30.10.2006 at 13:18 -0700, edwardsa wrote: > Dave Ewart wrote: > >On Monday, 30.10.2006 at 11:06 -0700, edwardsa wrote: > > > > > >>I have some ubuntu machines living inside of a debian firewall machine > >>that point to an apt-cacher archive on that machine. It looks to me > >>that I could have the same archive serve both distributions. This > >>would be useful because I have two other debian machines on the same > >>network. It looks as though I could put all of the debian debs in the > >>import directory and run the perl script to put them in the packages > >>directory. Am I missing anything? > >> > > > >I don't see any reason why you can't use apt-cacher to cache access to > >the Ubuntu repositories as well as the Debian repositories; this should > >work fine, so long as you configure the appropriate upstream > >respositories for each. > > > >I might be mistaken, but it sounds like you're also suggesting trying to > >*mix* Debian and Ubuntu packages: don't do this! (If that's not what > >you meant, then ignore this remark, of course) > > > >Dave. > > > > > Thanks for the response. I agree that mixing ubuntu and debian packages > would be a disaster. I just want one place > to store debians for both distributions, pointing each machine to the > same apt-cacher archive and then to their respective external repositories. Yeah, then that should work fine. I've used apt-proxy in the past and had it serve both i386 and amd64 machines, which used different repositories: that's not fundamentally any different to what you're suggesting. Dave. -- Please don't CC me on list messages! ... Dave Ewart - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] All email from me is now digitally signed, key from http://www.sungate.co.uk/ Fingerprint: AEC5 9360 0A35 7F66 66E9 82E4 9E10 6769 CD28 DA92 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Debian and Ubuntu sharing apt-cacher?
Dave Ewart wrote: On Monday, 30.10.2006 at 11:06 -0700, edwardsa wrote: I have some ubuntu machines living inside of a debian firewall machine that point to an apt-cacher archive on that machine. It looks to me that I could have the same archive serve both distributions. This would be useful because I have two other debian machines on the same network. It looks as though I could put all of the debian debs in the import directory and run the perl script to put them in the packages directory. Am I missing anything? I don't see any reason why you can't use apt-cacher to cache access to the Ubuntu repositories as well as the Debian repositories; this should work fine, so long as you configure the appropriate upstream respositories for each. I might be mistaken, but it sounds like you're also suggesting trying to *mix* Debian and Ubuntu packages: don't do this! (If that's not what you meant, then ignore this remark, of course) Dave. Thanks for the response. I agree that mixing ubuntu and debian packages would be a disaster. I just want one place to store debians for both distributions, pointing each machine to the same apt-cacher archive and then to their respective external repositories. Art -- Arthur H. Edwards Senior Research Physicist Air Force Research Laboratory AFRL/VSSE Bldg. 914 3550 Aberdeen Ave. SE KAFB, NM 87117-5776 (505) 853-6042 (O) (505) 463-6722 (C) (505) 846-2290 (F) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and Ubuntu sharing apt-cacher?
On Monday, 30.10.2006 at 11:06 -0700, edwardsa wrote: > I have some ubuntu machines living inside of a debian firewall machine > that point to an apt-cacher archive on that machine. It looks to me > that I could have the same archive serve both distributions. This > would be useful because I have two other debian machines on the same > network. It looks as though I could put all of the debian debs in the > import directory and run the perl script to put them in the packages > directory. Am I missing anything? I don't see any reason why you can't use apt-cacher to cache access to the Ubuntu repositories as well as the Debian repositories; this should work fine, so long as you configure the appropriate upstream respositories for each. I might be mistaken, but it sounds like you're also suggesting trying to *mix* Debian and Ubuntu packages: don't do this! (If that's not what you meant, then ignore this remark, of course) Dave. -- Please don't CC me on list messages! ... Dave Ewart - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] All email from me is now digitally signed, key from http://www.sungate.co.uk/ Fingerprint: AEC5 9360 0A35 7F66 66E9 82E4 9E10 6769 CD28 DA92 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Debian and Ubuntu sharing apt-cacher?
I have some ubuntu machines living inside of a debian firewall machine that point to an apt-cacher archive on that machine. It looks to me that I could have the same archive serve both distributions. This would be useful because I have two other debian machines on the same network. It looks as though I could put all of the debian debs in the import directory and run the perl script to put them in the packages directory. Am I missing anything? -- Arthur H. Edwards Senior Research Physicist Air Force Research Laboratory AFRL/VSSE Bldg. 914 3550 Aberdeen Ave. SE KAFB, NM 87117-5776 (505) 853-6042 (O) (505) 463-6722 (C) (505) 846-2290 (F) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
