Re: iproute, NM and ifupdown

[David Wright]

On Tue 28 Aug 2018 at 14:57:58 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 28 August 2018 14:16:15 David Wright wrote:
> 
> > On Mon 27 Aug 2018 at 19:21:00 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Monday 27 August 2018 15:59:09 David Wright wrote:
> > > > On Sun 26 Aug 2018 at 14:24:23 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday 26 August 2018 13:36:41 Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> > > > > > Le 26/08/2018 à 17:24, Gene Heskett a écrit :
> > > > > > > Most recently on a stretch install on a rock64 I had to
> > > > > > > erect immutable attributes to resolv.conf after making it a
> > > > > > > real file, and e-n-i to make networking Just Work.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > /etc/resolv.conf is a rather different topic, because it is
> > > > > > not related to a specific interface and may be written by
> > > > > > several pieces of software, including but not limited to
> > > > > > NetworkManager when configuring *any* interface. I would
> > > > > > suggest using resolvconf but I suspect you would not like it
> > > > > > either.

Reread what you wrote:

> > > > > Ohkaay, but where's the docs on this mysterious resolvconf?
> > > > >
> > > > > What we do have is missing (wheezy) or horribly incomplete
> > > > > (jessie).
> > > > >
> > > > > But I'll have to take that back, my apologies. I just read the
> > > > > stretch version on that rock64.  And as man pages go, its
> > > > > decent. And I'll have to do some experimenting as its possible I
> > > > > can train it to behave.
> > > > >
> > > > > And curious I blink compared the jessie vs stretch versions,
> > > > > stretch's is both longer AND more complete, and two different
> > > > > authors and formatted completely different. And wheezy doesn't
> > > > > even have the man page. I don't even know if it should, maybe
> > > > > not for wheezy, lots of water has been recycled since those
> > > > > installs were made, so I'll plead oldtimers.

That's about the *man pages* for resolvconf.

> > > > This is very strange. I just did (in 80 column xterms):
> >
> > [snipped various properties of resolvconf's man page on
> > wheezy/jessie/stretch.]
> >
> > > > So one can't help wondering exactly what is installed on your
> > > > machines if things don't match. Note that there are significant
> > > > differences between the different versions, so following the
> > > > stretch/jessie man page could give you problems on a wheezy
> > > > machine. (I haven't checked out backports.)
> > >
> > > What is installed on 4 of the 6 boxes here, is a wheezy install
> > > thats been tweaked to A: put a realtime kernel on it so it can run
> > > linuxcnc on real hardware. The stretch I'll install here after my
> > > new drive cage arrives, and I found today that newegg's fedex is a
> > > week for delivery, its not expected to arrive here before Thursday
> > > evening, has also been tweaked to run LinuxCNC, probably by a real
> > > time kernel replacement..
> >
> > Which kernel you run should have no connection with the contents of
> > Debian's resolvconf packages. You should still have these three:
> >
> >  4575 Jun 19  2012 /usr/share/man/man8/resolvconf.8.gz
> >  4500 Jan 27  2015 /usr/share/man/man8/resolvconf.8.gz
> >  4500 May 19  2016 /usr/share/man/man8/resolvconf.8.gz

Those are the man pages (your "docs") for wheezy/jessie/stretch.
They should be on your various systems according to Debian codename.

> not on any wheezy sourced from the linuxcnc install iso, David

Well, look again. In /usr/share/man/man8/, not /etc/.

> My /etc/resolv.conf is a real file and looks something like this:
> 
> nameserver 192.168.71.1
> search hosts nameserver
> 
> And it Just Works.

Yes, /etc/resolv.conf is not a man page. And I don't suppose your
/etc/resolv.conf is missing from wheezy or horribly incomplete in
jessie, which is what you were claiming for the *docs*.

And note that none of this is about the man page for resolv.conf which
is in section (5) rather than (8) as it's about a file, not a command.
If you read the latter, you'll see that your line "search hosts nameserver"
doesn't make a lot of sense.

But that's a conversation we had last year.
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/08/msg01432.html

Cheers,
David.

Re: iproute, NM and ifupdown

[Timothy M Butterworth]

On 8/28/18, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> On Tuesday 28 August 2018 14:16:15 David Wright wrote:
>
>> On Mon 27 Aug 2018 at 19:21:00 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
>> > On Monday 27 August 2018 15:59:09 David Wright wrote:
>> > > On Sun 26 Aug 2018 at 14:24:23 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
>> > > > On Sunday 26 August 2018 13:36:41 Pascal Hambourg wrote:
>> > > > > Le 26/08/2018 à 17:24, Gene Heskett a écrit :
>> > > > > > Most recently on a stretch install on a rock64 I had to
>> > > > > > erect immutable attributes to resolv.conf after making it a
>> > > > > > real file, and e-n-i to make networking Just Work.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > /etc/resolv.conf is a rather different topic, because it is
>> > > > > not related to a specific interface and may be written by
>> > > > > several pieces of software, including but not limited to
>> > > > > NetworkManager when configuring *any* interface. I would
>> > > > > suggest using resolvconf but I suspect you would not like it
>> > > > > either.
>> > > >
>> > > > Ohkaay, but where's the docs on this mysterious resolvconf?
>> > > >
>> > > > What we do have is missing (wheezy) or horribly incomplete
>> > > > (jessie).
>> > > >
>> > > > But I'll have to take that back, my apologies. I just read the
>> > > > stretch version on that rock64.  And as man pages go, its
>> > > > decent. And I'll have to do some experimenting as its possible I
>> > > > can train it to behave.
>> > > >
>> > > > And curious I blink compared the jessie vs stretch versions,
>> > > > stretch's is both longer AND more complete, and two different
>> > > > authors and formatted completely different. And wheezy doesn't
>> > > > even have the man page. I don't even know if it should, maybe
>> > > > not for wheezy, lots of water has been recycled since those
>> > > > installs were made, so I'll plead oldtimers.
>> > >
>> > > This is very strange. I just did (in 80 column xterms):
>>
>> [snipped various properties of resolvconf's man page on
>> wheezy/jessie/stretch.]
>>
>> > > So one can't help wondering exactly what is installed on your
>> > > machines if things don't match. Note that there are significant
>> > > differences between the different versions, so following the
>> > > stretch/jessie man page could give you problems on a wheezy
>> > > machine. (I haven't checked out backports.)
>> >
>> > What is installed on 4 of the 6 boxes here, is a wheezy install
>> > thats been tweaked to A: put a realtime kernel on it so it can run
>> > linuxcnc on real hardware. The stretch I'll install here after my
>> > new drive cage arrives, and I found today that newegg's fedex is a
>> > week for delivery, its not expected to arrive here before Thursday
>> > evening, has also been tweaked to run LinuxCNC, probably by a real
>> > time kernel replacement..
>>
>> Which kernel you run should have no connection with the contents of
>> Debian's resolvconf packages. You should still have these three:
>>
>>  4575 Jun 19  2012 /usr/share/man/man8/resolvconf.8.gz
>>  4500 Jan 27  2015 /usr/share/man/man8/resolvconf.8.gz
>>  4500 May 19  2016 /usr/share/man/man8/resolvconf.8.gz
>>
> not on any wheezy sourced from the linuxcnc install iso, David
>
> My /etc/resolv.conf is a real file and looks something like this:
>
> nameserver 192.168.71.1
> search hosts nameserver
>
> And it Just Works.
>
>> Cheers,
>> David.
>
>
>
> --
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>

Mine is immutable as well. I have Google DNS Configured.

nameserver 8.8.8.8
nameserver 8.8.4.4
nameserver 2001:4888:3b:ff00:3c2:d::
nameserver 2001:4888:32:ff00:3c1:d::

Re: iproute, NM and ifupdown

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 28 August 2018 14:16:15 David Wright wrote:

> On Mon 27 Aug 2018 at 19:21:00 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Monday 27 August 2018 15:59:09 David Wright wrote:
> > > On Sun 26 Aug 2018 at 14:24:23 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > On Sunday 26 August 2018 13:36:41 Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> > > > > Le 26/08/2018 à 17:24, Gene Heskett a écrit :
> > > > > > Most recently on a stretch install on a rock64 I had to
> > > > > > erect immutable attributes to resolv.conf after making it a
> > > > > > real file, and e-n-i to make networking Just Work.
> > > > >
> > > > > /etc/resolv.conf is a rather different topic, because it is
> > > > > not related to a specific interface and may be written by
> > > > > several pieces of software, including but not limited to
> > > > > NetworkManager when configuring *any* interface. I would
> > > > > suggest using resolvconf but I suspect you would not like it
> > > > > either.
> > > >
> > > > Ohkaay, but where's the docs on this mysterious resolvconf?
> > > >
> > > > What we do have is missing (wheezy) or horribly incomplete
> > > > (jessie).
> > > >
> > > > But I'll have to take that back, my apologies. I just read the
> > > > stretch version on that rock64.  And as man pages go, its
> > > > decent. And I'll have to do some experimenting as its possible I
> > > > can train it to behave.
> > > >
> > > > And curious I blink compared the jessie vs stretch versions,
> > > > stretch's is both longer AND more complete, and two different
> > > > authors and formatted completely different. And wheezy doesn't
> > > > even have the man page. I don't even know if it should, maybe
> > > > not for wheezy, lots of water has been recycled since those
> > > > installs were made, so I'll plead oldtimers.
> > >
> > > This is very strange. I just did (in 80 column xterms):
>
> [snipped various properties of resolvconf's man page on
> wheezy/jessie/stretch.]
>
> > > So one can't help wondering exactly what is installed on your
> > > machines if things don't match. Note that there are significant
> > > differences between the different versions, so following the
> > > stretch/jessie man page could give you problems on a wheezy
> > > machine. (I haven't checked out backports.)
> >
> > What is installed on 4 of the 6 boxes here, is a wheezy install
> > thats been tweaked to A: put a realtime kernel on it so it can run
> > linuxcnc on real hardware. The stretch I'll install here after my
> > new drive cage arrives, and I found today that newegg's fedex is a
> > week for delivery, its not expected to arrive here before Thursday
> > evening, has also been tweaked to run LinuxCNC, probably by a real
> > time kernel replacement..
>
> Which kernel you run should have no connection with the contents of
> Debian's resolvconf packages. You should still have these three:
>
>  4575 Jun 19  2012 /usr/share/man/man8/resolvconf.8.gz
>  4500 Jan 27  2015 /usr/share/man/man8/resolvconf.8.gz
>  4500 May 19  2016 /usr/share/man/man8/resolvconf.8.gz
>
not on any wheezy sourced from the linuxcnc install iso, David

My /etc/resolv.conf is a real file and looks something like this:

nameserver 192.168.71.1
search hosts nameserver

And it Just Works.

> Cheers,
> David.



-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: iproute, NM and ifupdown

[David Wright]

On Mon 27 Aug 2018 at 19:21:00 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Monday 27 August 2018 15:59:09 David Wright wrote:
> > On Sun 26 Aug 2018 at 14:24:23 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Sunday 26 August 2018 13:36:41 Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> > > > Le 26/08/2018 à 17:24, Gene Heskett a écrit :
> > > > > Most recently on a stretch install on a rock64 I had to erect
> > > > > immutable attributes to resolv.conf after making it a real file,
> > > > > and e-n-i to make networking Just Work.
> > > >
> > > > /etc/resolv.conf is a rather different topic, because it is not
> > > > related to a specific interface and may be written by several
> > > > pieces of software, including but not limited to NetworkManager
> > > > when configuring *any* interface. I would suggest using resolvconf
> > > > but I suspect you would not like it either.
> > >
> > > Ohkaay, but where's the docs on this mysterious resolvconf?
> > >
> > > What we do have is missing (wheezy) or horribly incomplete (jessie).
> > >
> > > But I'll have to take that back, my apologies. I just read the
> > > stretch version on that rock64.  And as man pages go, its decent.
> > > And I'll have to do some experimenting as its possible I can train
> > > it to behave.
> > >
> > > And curious I blink compared the jessie vs stretch versions,
> > > stretch's is both longer AND more complete, and two different
> > > authors and formatted completely different. And wheezy doesn't even
> > > have the man page. I don't even know if it should, maybe not for
> > > wheezy, lots of water has been recycled since those installs were
> > > made, so I'll plead oldtimers.
> >
> > This is very strange. I just did (in 80 column xterms):

[snipped various properties of resolvconf's man page on wheezy/jessie/stretch.]

> > So one can't help wondering exactly what is installed on your machines
> > if things don't match. Note that there are significant differences
> > between the different versions, so following the stretch/jessie man
> > page could give you problems on a wheezy machine. (I haven't checked
> > out backports.)
> 
> What is installed on 4 of the 6 boxes here, is a wheezy install thats 
> been tweaked to A: put a realtime kernel on it so it can run linuxcnc on 
> real hardware. The stretch I'll install here after my new drive cage 
> arrives, and I found today that newegg's fedex is a week for delivery, 
> its not expected to arrive here before Thursday evening, has also been 
> tweaked to run LinuxCNC, probably by a real time kernel replacement..

Which kernel you run should have no connection with the contents of
Debian's resolvconf packages. You should still have these three:

 4575 Jun 19  2012 /usr/share/man/man8/resolvconf.8.gz
 4500 Jan 27  2015 /usr/share/man/man8/resolvconf.8.gz
 4500 May 19  2016 /usr/share/man/man8/resolvconf.8.gz

Cheers,
David.

Re: iproute, NM and ifupdown

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 27 August 2018 15:59:09 David Wright wrote:

> On Sun 26 Aug 2018 at 14:24:23 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 26 August 2018 13:36:41 Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> > > Le 26/08/2018 à 17:24, Gene Heskett a écrit :
> > > > Most recently on a stretch install on a rock64 I had to erect
> > > > immutable attributes to resolv.conf after making it a real file,
> > > > and e-n-i to make networking Just Work.
> > >
> > > /etc/resolv.conf is a rather different topic, because it is not
> > > related to a specific interface and may be written by several
> > > pieces of software, including but not limited to NetworkManager
> > > when configuring *any* interface. I would suggest using resolvconf
> > > but I suspect you would not like it either.
> >
> > Ohkaay, but where's the docs on this mysterious resolvconf?
> >
> > What we do have is missing (wheezy) or horribly incomplete (jessie).
> >
> > But I'll have to take that back, my apologies. I just read the
> > stretch version on that rock64.  And as man pages go, its decent.
> > And I'll have to do some experimenting as its possible I can train
> > it to behave.
> >
> > And curious I blink compared the jessie vs stretch versions,
> > stretch's is both longer AND more complete, and two different
> > authors and formatted completely different. And wheezy doesn't even
> > have the man page. I don't even know if it should, maybe not for
> > wheezy, lots of water has been recycled since those installs were
> > made, so I'll plead oldtimers.
>
> This is very strange. I just did (in 80 column xterms):
>
> $ man resolvconf > /tmp/resolvconf-stretch
>
> and the same for jessie and wheezy on the appropriate computers.
>
> $ diff /tmp/resolvconf-[sj]*
> 3,4d2
> <
> <
> 278d275
> <
> 295,296d291
> <
> <
> $
>
> so a few blank lines have been removed between jessie and stretch.
> As for wheezy not having a man page:
>
> $ wc /tmp/resolvconf-wheezy
>   301  1748 14876 /tmp/resolvconf-wheezy
> $ cat /etc/debian_version
> 7.11
> $ dpkg -l resolvconf
> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
>
> | Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/T
> |rig-pend / Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
> |
> ||/ NameVersionArchitecture   Description
>
> +++-===-==-==-
>=== ii  resolvconf  1.67   all 
>   name server information handler $ dpkg -L resolvconf | grep
> /man./
> /usr/share/man/man8/resolvconf.8.gz
> /usr/share/man/man5/interface-order.5.gz
> $
>
> So one can't help wondering exactly what is installed on your machines
> if things don't match. Note that there are significant differences
> between the different versions, so following the stretch/jessie man
> page could give you problems on a wheezy machine. (I haven't checked
> out backports.)
>
> Cheers,
> David.

What is installed on 4 of the 6 boxes here, is a wheezy install thats 
been tweaked to A: put a realtime kernel on it so it can run linuxcnc on 
real hardware. The stretch I'll install here after my new drive cage 
arrives, and I found today that newegg's fedex is a week for delivery, 
its not expected to arrive here before Thursday evening, has also been 
tweaked to run LinuxCNC, probably by a real time kernel replacement..

Thanks David, gotta run the mussus just called on the intercom.  Later.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: iproute, NM and ifupdown

[David Wright]

On Sun 26 Aug 2018 at 14:24:23 (-0400), Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 26 August 2018 13:36:41 Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> > Le 26/08/2018 à 17:24, Gene Heskett a écrit :
> > > Most recently on a stretch install on a rock64 I had to erect
> > > immutable attributes to resolv.conf after making it a real file, and
> > > e-n-i to make networking Just Work.
> >
> > /etc/resolv.conf is a rather different topic, because it is not
> > related to a specific interface and may be written by several pieces
> > of software, including but not limited to NetworkManager when
> > configuring *any* interface. I would suggest using resolvconf but I
> > suspect you would not like it either.
> Ohkaay, but where's the docs on this mysterious resolvconf?
> 
> What we do have is missing (wheezy) or horribly incomplete (jessie). 
> 
> But I'll have to take that back, my apologies. I just read the stretch 
> version on that rock64.  And as man pages go, its decent. And I'll have 
> to do some experimenting as its possible I can train it to behave.
> 
> And curious I blink compared the jessie vs stretch versions, stretch's is 
> both longer AND more complete, and two different authors and formatted 
> completely different. And wheezy doesn't even have the man page. I don't 
> even know if it should, maybe not for wheezy, lots of water has been 
> recycled since those installs were made, so I'll plead oldtimers.

This is very strange. I just did (in 80 column xterms):

$ man resolvconf > /tmp/resolvconf-stretch

and the same for jessie and wheezy on the appropriate computers.

$ diff /tmp/resolvconf-[sj]*
3,4d2
< 
< 
278d275
< 
295,296d291
< 
< 
$ 

so a few blank lines have been removed between jessie and stretch.
As for wheezy not having a man page:

$ wc /tmp/resolvconf-wheezy 
  301  1748 14876 /tmp/resolvconf-wheezy
$ cat /etc/debian_version 
7.11
$ dpkg -l resolvconf
Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ NameVersionArchitecture   Description
+++-===-==-==-===
ii  resolvconf  1.67   allname server information 
handler
$ dpkg -L resolvconf | grep /man./
/usr/share/man/man8/resolvconf.8.gz
/usr/share/man/man5/interface-order.5.gz
$ 

So one can't help wondering exactly what is installed on your machines
if things don't match. Note that there are significant differences
between the different versions, so following the stretch/jessie man
page could give you problems on a wheezy machine. (I haven't checked
out backports.)

Cheers,
David.

Re: iproute, NM and ifupdown

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 26 August 2018 13:36:41 Pascal Hambourg wrote:

> Le 26/08/2018 à 17:24, Gene Heskett a écrit :
> > On Sunday 26 August 2018 10:24:35 Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> >> Le 26/08/2018 à 15:40, Gene Heskett a écrit :
> >>> Theres some keywords
> >>> (mentioned in the man page in obtuse language IIRC) to use in
> >>> e-n-i to tell N_M to keep its malicious hands off a given
> >>> interface, but you have to read between the lines with your
> >>> logical superpowers to detect them.
> >>
> >> No, there is no obscure keyword and nothing between the lines.
> >
> > Oh? And you wrote that manpage I suppose, and you don't make
> > mistakes...
>
> Irrelevant.

If you didn't write it, I apologize for venting at the wrong person.
>
> > You may be able to read it, knowing what you "intended" to write.
> > But others aren't mind readers.
>
> Maybe I was not clear enough. Let me rephrase a bit.
>
> Contrary to what you wrote, there is no obscure keyword to use in
> /etc/network/interfaces to tell NetworkManager to keep its hands off a
> given interface.
>
> >> By default, NM does not manage any interface configured in
> >> /etc/network/interfaces. So all you have to do is configure your
> >> interface with an "iface" stanza in /etc/network/interfaces as
> >> usual so that it is managed by ifupdown and not by NM.
> >
> > I have had N-M tear down a well configured staticly defined eth0 on
> > dozens of occasions, despite using the iface designation in my
> > e-n-i's.
>
> Then it is a bug which should be reported and fixed. It is not
> intended behaviour.
>
Any fusses I have posted to bugzilla have all been "won't fix" in just a 
few minutes. You'd think its tailor was Dupont. Teflon suits IOW.
> > Most recently on a stretch install on a rock64 I had to erect
> > immutable attributes to resolv.conf after making it a real file, and
> > e-n-i to make networking Just Work.
>
> /etc/resolv.conf is a rather different topic, because it is not
> related to a specific interface and may be written by several pieces
> of software, including but not limited to NetworkManager when
> configuring *any* interface. I would suggest using resolvconf but I
> suspect you would not like it either.
Ohkaay, but where's the docs on this mysterious resolvconf?

What we do have is missing (wheezy) or horribly incomplete (jessie). 

But I'll have to take that back, my apologies. I just read the stretch 
version on that rock64.  And as man pages go, its decent. And I'll have 
to do some experimenting as its possible I can train it to behave.

And curious I blink compared the jessie vs stretch versions, stretch's is 
both longer AND more complete, and two different authors and formatted 
completely different. And wheezy doesn't even have the man page. I don't 
even know if it should, maybe not for wheezy, lots of water has been 
recycled since those installs were made, so I'll plead oldtimers.

-- 
Cheers Pascal, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: iproute, NM and ifupdown

[Pascal Hambourg]

Le 26/08/2018 à 17:24, Gene Heskett a écrit :

On Sunday 26 August 2018 10:24:35 Pascal Hambourg wrote:


Le 26/08/2018 à 15:40, Gene Heskett a écrit :


Theres some keywords
(mentioned in the man page in obtuse language IIRC) to use in e-n-i
to tell N_M to keep its malicious hands off a given interface, but
you have to read between the lines with your logical superpowers to
detect them.


No, there is no obscure keyword and nothing between the lines.


Oh? And you wrote that manpage I suppose, and you don't make mistakes...


Irrelevant.


You may be able to read it, knowing what you "intended" to write. But
others aren't mind readers.


Maybe I was not clear enough. Let me rephrase a bit.

Contrary to what you wrote, there is no obscure keyword to use in 
/etc/network/interfaces to tell NetworkManager to keep its hands off a 
given interface.



By default, NM does not manage any interface configured in
/etc/network/interfaces. So all you have to do is configure your
interface with an "iface" stanza in /etc/network/interfaces as usual
so that it is managed by ifupdown and not by NM.


I have had N-M tear down a well configured staticly defined eth0 on
dozens of occasions, despite using the iface designation in my e-n-i's.
Then it is a bug which should be reported and fixed. It is not intended 
behaviour.



Most recently on a stretch install on a rock64 I had to erect immutable
attributes to resolv.conf after making it a real file, and e-n-i to make
networking Just Work.


/etc/resolv.conf is a rather different topic, because it is not related 
to a specific interface and may be written by several pieces of 
software, including but not limited to NetworkManager when configuring 
*any* interface. I would suggest using resolvconf but I suspect you 
would not like it either.

Re: iproute, NM and ifupdown (was: My wired connection doesn't work suddenly (Debian sid))

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 26 August 2018 10:24:35 Pascal Hambourg wrote:

> Le 26/08/2018 à 15:40, Gene Heskett a écrit :
> > Why do I have to read a mailing list to learn how to use these  new
> > ip tools.
>
> "New" ? iproute has been around for more that 20 years !
>
> > Theres some keywords
> > (mentioned in the man page in obtuse language IIRC) to use in e-n-i
> > to tell N_M to keep its malicious hands off a given interface, but
> > you have to read between the lines with your logical superpowers to
> > detect them.
>
> No, there is no obscure keyword and nothing between the lines.

Oh? And you wrote that manpage I suppose, and you don't make mistakes...

You may be able to read it, knowing what you "intended" to write. But 
others aren't mind readers.

But we can add 2+2 and get a quite precisely defined 4.00.

> By default, NM does not manage any interface configured in
> /etc/network/interfaces. So all you have to do is configure your
> interface with an "iface" stanza in /etc/network/interfaces as usual
> so that it is managed by ifupdown and not by NM.

I have had N-M tear down a well configured staticly defined eth0 on 
dozens of occasions, despite using the iface designation in my e-n-i's. 
Most recently on a stretch install on a rock64 I had to erect immutable 
attributes to resolv.conf after making it a real file, and e-n-i to make 
networking Just Work.

It may not do it today, things do get improved but my linux experience 
dates to RH5.0 and 1998 and its been something I've had to edit e-n-i 
and then quickly make it immutable, ditto for making /etc/resolv.conf a 
real file and immutable ever since N-M was made virtually mandatory. My 
networking is not portable and with the exception of my ancient lappy 
will never be.

Theres a reason my /etc/hosts files are 20+ lines long, and my 
resolv.conf has a "search hosts nameserver" line in it, which N-M always 
removes if it can. The real file, made immutable fixes that too

N-M is helpless when there is not a dhcp server or a dhcp server that 
only recognizes the MAC of one machine for security reasons.

Based on my experience at making N-M work, you might want to get a 
shorter horse.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

iproute, NM and ifupdown (was: My wired connection doesn't work suddenly (Debian sid))

[Pascal Hambourg]

Le 26/08/2018 à 15:40, Gene Heskett a écrit :



Why do I have to read a mailing list to learn how to use these  new ip
tools.


"New" ? iproute has been around for more that 20 years !


Theres some keywords
(mentioned in the man page in obtuse language IIRC) to use in e-n-i to
tell N_M to keep its malicious hands off a given interface, but you have
to read between the lines with your logical superpowers to detect them.


No, there is no obscure keyword and nothing between the lines.
By default, NM does not manage any interface configured in 
/etc/network/interfaces. So all you have to do is configure your 
interface with an "iface" stanza in /etc/network/interfaces as usual so 
that it is managed by ifupdown and not by NM.