Re: is it unusual that 12.1 is released so soon after 12?
I think it is kind of like buying a new ANYTHING. Some folks will buy a new model as soon as it comes out. Some will wait a few months to see if anyone else is having problems with it. Whether it is a vehicle, electronic device, refrigerator, MS-Windows, new online service, etc. As more folks use the ANYTHING, more issues will be found. Fortunately with something like operating systems, changes/fixes can usually be made fairly quickly. mrc
Re: is it unusual that 12.1 is released so soon after 12?
Thank to all that reply! i know little about debian development i have only vague understanding of beta
Re: is it unusual that 12.1 is released so soon after 12?
wrote: > On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 11:32:49AM +, Andy Smith wrote: >> Hi, >> >> On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 06:14:16PM +0800, hlyg wrote: >> > it seems that x.1 are really stable while x are beta release >> >> That is not by design, but by largely unavoidable consequence, and >> so a Debian stable release is not considered a "beta" ion any >> respect. > > I think that the best correspondence to the "beta" idea in Debian > is the freeze process (explained here [1] for buster). So x.0 is > considered "release quality". > > The freeze process is designed to cope with the specialties of a > big and complex software distribution, where you want its many > interdependent parts to "settle" in "layers", starting from the > most fundamental ones and propagating to the "leaves". > > Cheers > > [1] https://release.debian.org/bookworm/freeze_policy.html sometimes it may be more like fermenting before it settles. :) i appreciate everything that people do for Debian from the development to the testing to the refinements and even to the sometimes long drawn out discussions about how to do something or how to fix things or make them better. and then those who help the rest of us out and keep us somewhat on the straight and narrow pathway towards nerdvanna. songbird
Re: is it unusual that 12.1 is released so soon after 12?
* On 2023 17 Aug 05:15 -0500, hlyg wrote: > Thank Andrew, Michael and Joe! > > it seems that x.1 are really stable while x are beta release And .2, .3, etc. are even more stable by that metric. Best to wait for 12.7 or later then. In the mean time the rest of us have work to do with the updated tools. Sometimes even the first point release will catch us unawares as with gnome-keyring-daemon crashes/restarts not long after logging into GNOME on this desktop system. So far this only affects one system of mine running Bookworm and not the other. It could be a glitch of my making but I'm unaware of anything I did to cause the keyring applet problems where it was working without issue on Bullseye and Buster previously. If Bullseye is working for you, then you may want to wait until such time as it will no longer receive security updates. Unlike other systems, Debian doesn't force anyone to upgrade. - Nate -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Web: https://www.n0nb.us Projects: https://github.com/N0NB GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: is it unusual that 12.1 is released so soon after 12?
On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 11:32:49AM +, Andy Smith wrote: > Hi, > > On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 06:14:16PM +0800, hlyg wrote: > > it seems that x.1 are really stable while x are beta release > > That is not by design, but by largely unavoidable consequence, and > so a Debian stable release is not considered a "beta" ion any > respect. I think that the best correspondence to the "beta" idea in Debian is the freeze process (explained here [1] for buster). So x.0 is considered "release quality". The freeze process is designed to cope with the specialties of a big and complex software distribution, where you want its many interdependent parts to "settle" in "layers", starting from the most fundamental ones and propagating to the "leaves". Cheers [1] https://release.debian.org/bookworm/freeze_policy.html -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: is it unusual that 12.1 is released so soon after 12?
Hi, On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 06:14:16PM +0800, hlyg wrote: > it seems that x.1 are really stable while x are beta release That is not by design, but by largely unavoidable consequence, and so a Debian stable release is not considered a "beta" ion any respect. There will never be as diverse a user base for a testing release as there will be for a stable release. Some people have for this reason chosen to wait for "first update" of software releases as long as there has been software, far previous to the existence of Debian. Obviously you can't just not release it as you will still never get the desired amount of testing, nor know what that desired level actually is (an unknown unknown). There's more information here: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases/PointReleases Cheers, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
Re: is it unusual that 12.1 is released so soon after 12?
On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 18:14:16 +0800
hlyg wrote:
Hello hlyg,
>it seems that x.1 are really stable while x are beta release
Little could be further from the truth. By the time an X.0 release is
issued, much work has already been done; *including* beta releases.
That's not to say X.0 releases are never flawed. There can sometimes
be issues.
--
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Re: is it unusual that 12.1 is released so soon after 12?
On 17 Aug 2023 18:14 +0800, from hlyg2...@outlook.com (hlyg): > it seems that x.1 are really stable while x are beta release I would not characterize Debian x.0 as "beta". -- Michael Kjörling 🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”
Re: is it unusual that 12.1 is released so soon after 12?
Thank Andrew, Michael and Joe! it seems that x.1 are really stable while x are beta release
Re: is it unusual that 12.1 is released so soon after 12?
On 17 Aug 2023 06:13 +, from amaca...@einval.com (Andrew M.A. Cater): > There are some people who will never ever use a dot-0 release. It's quite > safe to do this in Debian as it will hve had about two years of testing > prior to release. Right. I personally opted to wait for 12.1 before upgrading, for a slew of reasons, and I still have some systems left to upgrade. It's not like 11.x would drop off the face of the Earth just because 12.0 was out. Also, as Mike Castle already did, it's more meaningful in this case to compare the time between various recent-ish x.0 to the corresponding x.1; and in that comparison, 12.0 to 12.1 doesn't particularly stand out either way. -- Michael Kjörling 🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”
Re: is it unusual that 12.1 is released so soon after 12?
On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 01:20:26PM +0800, hlyg wrote: > Thank Mike Castle! > > i suppose update cycle becomes short if there are major important patch, > correction or adjustments > > I think the aim is to have a roughly 2 month cycle per point release for the current stable and a 3-4 month release for "oldstable" during the first year after a release. That does mean, if you're unlucky, that there gets to be a double release every now and again - which means a very long weekend of building and testing. There are some people who will never ever use a dot-0 release. It's quite safe to do this in Debian as it will hve had about two years of testing prior to release. The idea of a point release is also to periodically round up security fixes and publish them in a block. If you update regularly - say once a week - to pick up fixes and patches, then a point release will change very little indeed. All the very best, as ever, Andy
Re: is it unusual that 12.1 is released so soon after 12?
Thank Mike Castle! i suppose update cycle becomes short if there are major important patch, correction or adjustments
Re: is it unusual that 12.1 is released so soon after 12?
7: 2013-05-04 https://www.debian.org/News/2013/20130504 7.1: 2013-06-15 https://www.debian.org/News/2013/20130615 42 days 8: 2015-04-25 https://www.debian.org/News/2015/20150426 8.1: 2015-06-06 https://www.debian.org/News/2015/20150606 42 days 9: 2017-06-17 https://www.debian.org/News/2017/20170617 9.1: 2017-07-22 https://www.debian.org/News/2017/20170722 35 days 10: 2019-07-06 https://www.debian.org/News/2019/20190706 10.1: 2019-09-07 https://www.debian.org/News/2019/20190907 63 days 11: 2021-08-14 https://www.debian.org/News/2021/20210814 11.1: 2021-10-09 https://www.debian.org/News/2021/20211009 56 days 12: 2023-06-10 https://www.debian.org/News/2023/20230610 12.1: 2023-07-22 https://www.debian.org/News/2023/20230722 42 days
is it unusual that 12.1 is released so soon after 12?
only 43 days passed between 12 and 12.1 [22 Jul 2023] Updated Debian 12: 12.1 released [10 Jun 2023] Debian 12 "bookworm" released bullseye update cycle is much longer [17 Dec 2022] Updated Debian 11: 11.6 released [10 Sep 2022] Updated Debian 10: 10.13 released [10 Sep 2022] Updated Debian 11: 11.5 released [09 Jul 2022] Updated Debian 11: 11.4 released [26 Mar 2022] Updated Debian 11: 11.3 released [26 Mar 2022] Updated Debian 10: 10.12 released 12.1 seems to solve usb problem that plague me
Re: is it unusual that 12.1 is released so soon after 12?
Correction: 42 days passed, not 43 days
