Re: need motherboard recommendation
Russell L. Harris put forth on 12/26/2010 5:46 PM: If the problem indeed is in the video ram, am I correct in assuming that I should have no great concern regarding data integrity in the other systems of the motherboard? I seriously doubt a DIMM is the problem. I can physically see what you describe with words, but it sure sound like an EMI/RFI issue, not the hardware, _especially_ after swapping mobo guts twice. No, I did not know that. I have been running Debian for ten years now, but I never have learned to use the logs. If you now tell us you have used the windows event viewer I will personally drive a wooden stake through your heart. ;) No, each monitor has its own cable. And the lines (horizontal and vertical, red and green) do not appear with any other motherboard which I have attached to these monitors. Cabling is likely irrelevant. To fix your problem Russell: 1. Remove the electric pencil sharpener and/or stapler from your desk 2. If you have a florescent lamp/light remove it. 3. Remove anything with an electric motor or transformer of any kind including charger bases for cell phones, cordless screwdrivers, VHS or other magnetic head recording device, etc, etc. Get any/all of these things at least 10 feet away from the PC with the problem. If you still have the problem, take a table or chair outside the building to the parking lot, an extension cord, and ONLY the PC, KB, mouse, and monitor, and fire it up there in isolation. If you still see the screen artifacts, find different employment, as that office/site is dangerous. :) -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d184cad.6010...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: need motherboard recommendation
26/12/2010 21:55, Doug wrote: On 12/26/2010 11:19 AM, Joe wrote: I've had a Giga GA-MA74GM-S2H for a year now. It hasn't died yet, and I can't really say more than that. The most exotic stuff I do is gEDA PCB layout, and I'm not aware of any performance problems. Built-in sound and graphics, using 1440x900/60, running Sid in 2G RAM. I'd have thought MB trouble was rare enough that you won't get statistically useful results. I have run two Asrock (cheap Asus brand) boards for several years with no trouble, and still have them as I don't like throwing things out when they still work normally, I just wanted more power after a few years. As to capacitors: the only ones I would deliberately avoid are the surface-mount aluminium types, the silver ones with the black arc on top to show polarity. I've replaced many hundreds in the last fifteen years or so, repaired the PCBs as necessary, and repaired and tested boards after literally thousands of the little beasts have been replaced by other people. Before they die they distribute electrolyte over the surrounding PCB, and that stuff eats copper, particularly plate-throughs. It's also, rather obviously, conductive, and I've seen a puddle of the stuff draw half an amp from a five-volt rail. I've never seen a wired capacitor do that kind of thing. The wired ones are bigger, but there's not much height restriction on a MB. Maybe it's time to buy tantalum capacitors. More expensive, slightly smaller, and (I believe) less likely to blow up. Available with parallel wires or in surface mount configurations. Military equipment has been using tantalum caps for years, so they must be reliable. (If anybody from a QA department is on line, maybe you'd comment.) --doug Asustek uses what they call military grade technology (chokes, capacitors and mofsets) on some boards (SABERTOOTH's at least), it's not tantalum but claimed to be at least as reliable. MSI uses it on some gfx boards, I have a Twin Frozr gfx card which advertises on the box the use of tantalum capacitors. I assumed it was more marketing hype directed toward teenage gamers, but anyway they both have been doing well for months under heavy load (video processing and encoding mainly). Frankly, I am not sure those technos are worth it on mother/gfx boards unless you're a keeper, it will probably be replaced long before it bursts a capacitor, much cheaper boards with whatever capacitors can last for a couple of years should be good enough for most use. If it brings some extra peace of mind it's good, but something else could fail before the capacitors. Having lost two expensive Samsung screens to crappy (CapXon) capacitors burst I can use the extra reinsurance ;-). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d185b5a.7040...@googlemail.com
Re: need motherboard recommendation
* Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com [101227 08:28]: I seriously doubt a DIMM is the problem. I can physically see what you describe with words, but it sure sound like an EMI/RFI issue, not the hardware, _especially_ after swapping mobo guts twice. From amateur radio experience in years past, I know a little about EMI/RFI. But aside from whatever radiation leaks from a home LAN, I am not aware of a strong source of interference. Besides, the pattern which I see is regular and stable -- lines perfectly horizontal and vertical, spaced about 1/8-inch or 1/4-inch as I recall. One colour (red or green, I forget) for the horizontal lines, and the other colour for the vertical lines. No, I did not know that. I have been running Debian for ten years now, but I never have learned to use the logs. If you now tell us you have used the windows event viewer I will personally drive a wooden stake through your heart. ;) I parted company with M$-DO$ and Window$ when the calendar rolled over from A.D. 1999 to A.D. 2000, on which occasion M$-Word 5.0 (the last rodent-independent version of WORD) began writing garbage to data files. This was one of the few _genuine_ Y2K bugs; M$ acknowledged it, and abandoned Word 5.0. At that point, I came face-to-face with the evil of proprietary formats for data storage, and I resolved never again to use editors which stored documents in anything other than plain text. Having started out with MS-WORD 1.0 back about 1980, I lost hundreds of documents, because there was no practical way to automate recovery of the text, much less, of the formatting. That experience led me to Linux, Emacs, and TeX. After a year of trying nearly every variety of Linux, I decided to commit to Debian. I am not a novice, but neither am I a Linux guru. For me, Linux is a means to an end. No, each monitor has its own cable. And the lines (horizontal and vertical, red and green) do not appear with any other motherboard which I have attached to these monitors. Cabling is likely irrelevant. To fix your problem Russell: 1. Remove the electric pencil sharpener and/or stapler from your desk. 2. If you have a florescent lamp/light remove it. 3. Remove anything with an electric motor or transformer of any kind including charger bases for cell phones, cordless screwdrivers, VHS or other magnetic head recording device, etc, etc. None of these are a factor; the nearest potential source of interference is a ceiling fluorescent fixture. And I see the same pattern with the machine in different rooms. If you still see the screen artifacts, find different employment, as that office/site is dangerous. :) I've read warnings about cellular towers; but none is close by. The problem is that this diagnosis does not address the fact that other machines using the same monitors do not exhibit the lines in terminal mode; that is one of the first things I checked. It is difficult to escape the conclusion that the M3A78-T is defective or else overly-sensitive to emi/rfi. %%% Thanks all. RLH -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101227102847.ga3...@rlharris.org
Re: need motherboard recommendation
* tv.deb...@googlemail.com tv.deb...@googlemail.com [101227 09:28]: Asustek uses what they call military grade technology (chokes, capacitors and mofsets) on some boards (SABERTOOTH's at least), it's not tantalum but claimed to be at least as reliable. ... Having lost two expensive Samsung screens to crappy (CapXon) capacitors burst I can use the extra reinsurance ;-). In view of the fact that capacitors are the Achilles Heel of the PC motherboard, not long ago one manufacturer went so far as to develop and market a PC motherboard which utilized no capacitors (other than the tiny ceramic bypass capacitors, which are inexpensive, reliable, and indispensable). The function of a capacitor is energy storage; but this also is the function of an inductor. Accordingly, with a change of circuit topology, the manufacturer was able to replace all the (electrolytic) capacitors with inductors, and do so at a competitive price. This was a garden-variety motherboard, intended for general use. RLH -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101227104043.gb3...@rlharris.org
Re: need motherboard recommendation
* Russell L. Harris rlhar...@broadcaster.org [101227 00:28]: Finally, I was in error regarding the P5Q-EM; it employs solid capacitors only in the critical power supply circuitry surrounding the processor; other capacitors on the board are electrolytic. This is typical of the garden-variety motherboards which I see on display at the local electronics emporium. Forgive me; the above is incorrect. All of the capacitors on the P5Q-EM are solid; there are no electrolytics. RLH -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101227123744.gc3...@rlharris.org
Re: need motherboard recommendation
On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 11:12:17 +, Russell L. Harris wrote: I am tossing into the dumpster the last two motherboards which I purchased -- Asus M3A78-T (AMD64) and Asus P5Q-EM (i386) -- because of video problems. I purchased the boards because of the long-life solid capacitors. (Motherboard life typically is limited by deterioration of conventional electrolytic capacitors with age and heat.) With the M3A78-T, the POST screen displayed a cross-hatch pattern of horizontal and vertical red and green lines with a variety of monitors, both CRT and LCD. The pattern also is visible in terminal mode outside of X. Three trips back to Asus did not cure the problem. With the P5Q-EM, the display goes blank (out of range message on the monitor) when X starts. (...) I don't think you need a new board but digging a bit more about your current problems. What would I check? - BIOS update (check if there is any new BIOS revision for your board) - Video card (if you are using an external card, just try with another one, if you are using an embedded card, just test with an external one) - PCI-e slot (if your VGA is external, try by swapping the card into another free pci-e slot) - Cables (DVI cables can do weird things, just try with another or even try with the VGA input/cable instead of using the digital signal, just for testing) Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.12.27.12.55...@gmail.com
Re: need motherboard recommendation
Russell L. Harris wrote: * Hugo Vanwoerkom hvw59...@care2.com [101226 22:56]: No Asus? Too bad. I really like my Asus M4N98TD EVO. First mobo I bought that worked out-of-the-box. Hi, Hugo, Thanks for the recommendation. I suppose that I should look again at Asus, now that Squeeze has X working on the M3A78-T. BTW I put an AMD Athlon(tm) II X2 250 Processor of 3000 MHz in it (65W) and 4GB of memory. I did not use the CPU cooler that came with the CPU but used a XIGMATEK cobra – d984 92mm HYPRO Bearing CPU Cooler. The CPU temp never goes over 30C and the CPU busy never exceeds 60%, but those numbers probably need to be taken with a grain of salt. Hugo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/ifafd4$q2...@dough.gmane.org
Re: need motherboard recommendation
tv.deb...@googlemail.com put forth on 12/27/2010 3:24 AM: Frankly, I am not sure those technos are worth it on mother/gfx boards unless you're a keeper, it will probably be replaced long before it bursts a capacitor, much cheaper boards with whatever capacitors can last for a couple of years should be good enough for most use. FWIW, I have a manufactured in 1999 Abit BP6 PPGA 370 mobo with _dual_ Mendocino Celeron 366s o'clocked to 550. Currently it's in my headless home office Lenny smtpd/imapd/smbd/httpd/ftpd/webmail Swiss Army Knife server. I bought the board in used condition off Ebay in 2002, so the original owner ran it for at least a couple of years before I acquired it. From 2002'ish to 2006 all it did was crunch 4 processes of the Linux s...@home client 24x7x365. It's been running 24x7 for 8 years now, 4 of those at constant full CPU load. It has the old industry standard cheapo caps. It still runs fine, although a little slow at times by today's standards, mainly when manipulating photos and videos (imagemagick and ffmpeg) and running curator against dirs with thousands of jpgs. AFAIK the caps haven't burst, though last I looked at the board, a year or so ago when I added a new SATA controller and drive, a few caps around the ZIF sockets were bulging a slight bit. This board has seen more current load on its caps than most boards ever will due to the constant s...@home for 4 years. My point is that tantalum caps might be nice and on average give longer life, but, they aren't absolutely necessary for long life. If you consider 10 years of pretty harsh duty a long life. Who knows how many years my BP6 has left in it. Hopefully at least a few, as I still love this board, and it works great in its current role. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d18dee3.9060...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: need motherboard recommendation
Russell L. Harris put forth on 12/27/2010 4:28 AM: None of these are a factor; the nearest potential source of interference is a ceiling fluorescent fixture. And I see the same pattern with the machine in different rooms. The line artifacts you describe, if you are indeed describing them accurately, are nearly always caused by static stray magnetic fields. Something as innocuous as a small decorative refrigerator magnet stuck to the PC case can cause things like this. I can almost guarantee you from knowledge and experience that if you have the same line artifacts with two different mobo models or two different vid cards that it's not the mobos or vid cards causing the problem. Did you ever actually bench test your components? I highly doubt you did or you'd have already discovered the boards aren't the problem. You have not described any detailed troubleshooting or bench testing procedures, only anecdotal evidence. For instance, if you are doing all your mobo testing inside the case, then you haven't followed proper thorough testing procedure. You need to eliminate _every_ component, including inert components of the system, including the case itself. If anyone ever in the history of that case stuck a magnet on it, especially one of any strength, for any length of time, the case itself will now be magnetized, unless it's an all aluminum jobby. Alums make up less than 1% of the market and this isn't a home gaming/overclocking kids, so odds are very high you have a steel case. A magnetized case could cause the exact problem you describe. I've seen this exact scenario before in custom car stereo shop. One of the trunk monkeys (installers) had affixed a coax door speaker to the PC case in the owners office, being the dichotomous ignorant know-it-all kid he was. He'd stealthily removed it when the owners wife started complaining about lines on the screen. They wanted to replace the CRT, so I took it back to the shop when I went for the replacement. I tested it first. No lines. Took the new one out--lines. I touched a paper clip to the case and it stuck. Bingo. The installer later copped to sticking a speaker to the case and apologized, claiming ignorance. At least he was being honest. It's touch for a know-it-all to admit ignorance. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d18f04d.3040...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: need motherboard recommendation
Russell L. Harris put forth on 12/27/2010 4:40 AM: In view of the fact that capacitors are the Achilles Heel of the PC motherboard Cheap case designs and motherboard designs with poor ventilation around the CPU socket VRM mosfets are, not caps. Far more motherboards fail due to VRM fets burning up than from caps popping, or anything else for that matter. And these failures occur long before cheap caps pop, especially during summer in non air conditioned environments. In the few years early in my career when I did almost exclusively PC/server builds and maintenance, I never saw a dead board with blown caps. ALL of them were due to, roughly in order of frequency: 1. Manufacturing defect (board trace) 2. Burned VRMs due to inadequate airflow or defective FETs 3. Direct shorts due to improper installation (screw stuck between the PCB and the mounting tray). These usually caught during burn-in. 4. PSU going south and taking out the VRMs due to DC voltage surges 5. Lightning strikes through phone lines into ISA/PCI modems Interestingly I remember one server I repaired that lost the fax modem, the SCSI card next to it, and the NIC next to the SCSI card. All 3 PCI slots were dead, but the motherboard otherwise functioned flawlessly. Every other lighting strike victim I serviced had a fried mobo. This one was unique. Thus I kept it, and still have it in storage somewhere. I pulled it out a fews years later to fire it up and convince a non-believer. It still smelled of burned epoxy resin (and still worked, but for those 3 PCI slots). Paul I get the feeling you've read a lot of forums and magazines, and know some people who might know their stuff, but that you personally don't really have any experience as a PC/server hardware tech. Is this an accurate assessment? -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d18f665.6090...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: need motherboard recommendation
Le 27/12/2010 19:45, Stan Hoeppner a écrit : tv.deb...@googlemail.com put forth on 12/27/2010 3:24 AM: Frankly, I am not sure those technos are worth it on mother/gfx boards unless you're a keeper, it will probably be replaced long before it bursts a capacitor, much cheaper boards with whatever capacitors can last for a couple of years should be good enough for most use. FWIW, I have a manufactured in 1999 Abit BP6 PPGA 370 mobo with _dual_ Mendocino Celeron 366s o'clocked to 550. Currently it's in my headless home office Lenny smtpd/imapd/smbd/httpd/ftpd/webmail Swiss Army Knife server. I bought the board in used condition off Ebay in 2002, so the original owner ran it for at least a couple of years before I acquired it. From 2002'ish to 2006 all it did was crunch 4 processes of the Linux s...@home client 24x7x365. It's been running 24x7 for 8 years now, 4 of those at constant full CPU load. It has the old industry standard cheapo caps. It still runs fine, although a little slow at times by today's standards, mainly when manipulating photos and videos (imagemagick and ffmpeg) and running curator against dirs with thousands of jpgs. AFAIK the caps haven't burst, though last I looked at the board, a year or so ago when I added a new SATA controller and drive, a few caps around the ZIF sockets were bulging a slight bit. This board has seen more current load on its caps than most boards ever will due to the constant s...@home for 4 years. My point is that tantalum caps might be nice and on average give longer life, but, they aren't absolutely necessary for long life. If you consider 10 years of pretty harsh duty a long life. Who knows how many years my BP6 has left in it. Hopefully at least a few, as I still love this board, and it works great in its current role. Nice, that's what I meant by unless you're a keeper. I have an IBM small form factor tower with some Pentium II, can't check since it's retired at my mother's but still worked the last time I tried, was a mt-daapd server for years. It is rather unlikely that it would fit the OP as a replacement for his motherboards though... I keep around an ECS board with a AMD Athlon XP socket A, it's been working great and still does (4 years old loves it) despite the complete lack of any fancy capacitor or such. But the main workhorses are multimedia (video, mostly HD) stations, performances usually get dwarfed by newer hardware every couple of years, and the (relatively) old gear is replaced. In this league the computer is very unlikely to outlive high quality components. Of course it doesn't hurt. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d190f8d.10...@googlemail.com
Re: need motherboard recommendation
* Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com [101228 00:28]: The line artifacts you describe, if you are indeed describing them accurately, are nearly always caused by static stray magnetic fields. Something as innocuous as a small decorative refrigerator magnet stuck to the PC case can cause things like this. I can almost guarantee you from knowledge and experience that if you have the same line artifacts with two different mobo models or two different vid cards that it's not the mobos or vid cards causing the problem. Ah-so! Now I see your point of confusion. At the start of the thread, I mentioned two motherboards -- a P5Q-EM and a M3A78-T. With the M3A78-T there were line artifacts. But with the P5Q-EM, the problem was simply that the display went blank when X started; there were no line artifacts. The X problem began with the installation of Lenny (stable); it was not present in Etch, and it disappeared once I installed Squeeze (testing). The line artifacts problem has persisted with multiple monitors (each with its own cable), multiple physical locations, and three trips back to the US Asus facility. Moreover, I have no external video card; the problem is in the on-board graphics of the M3A78-T. The only thing in common was the chassis and an Asus power supply. Did you ever actually bench test your components? I highly doubt you did or you'd have already discovered the boards aren't the problem. You have not described any detailed troubleshooting or bench testing procedures, only anecdotal evidence. For instance, if you are doing all your mobo testing inside the case, then you haven't followed proper thorough testing procedure. You need to eliminate _every_ component, including inert components of the system, including the case itself. I understand what you are saying; but from my perspective, life is too short and components are too inexpensive to spend hours and days with this, when there is a work-around. I replaced the M3A78-T with another motherboard, using the same chassis and power supply, and there is no problem with line artifacts. The M3A78-T obviously is defective. RLH -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101228011027.ga22...@rlharris.org
Re: need motherboard recommendation
* Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com [101228 00:28]: Paul I get the feeling you've read a lot of forums and magazines, and know some people who might know their stuff, but that you personally don't really have any experience as a PC/server hardware tech. Is this an accurate assessment? I am not a technician; I am an engineer. My experience includes electronic design. But this is not a question of my credentials. As a trip to the library would verify, the capacitor problem was front-page news and the subject of feature articles in respected professional publications such as Electronic Design, Electronic Engineering Times, and EDN. Furthermore, the limited life of electrolytics is well-known in industry. A typical Sprague data sheet from the 1970's lists the shelf life of a particular electrolytic as two or three years; and the service life as five years. Accordingly, in the petrochemical industry, spare electronic modules for critical machinery -- such as the governor for a large steam turbine -- were stored in special racks which kept them powered up continuously. But enough of this; the thread has gotten far off-topic. RLH -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101228012435.gb22...@rlharris.org
Re: need motherboard recommendation
* Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com [101228 00:28]: consider 10 years of pretty harsh duty a long life. Who knows how many years my BP6 has left in it. Hopefully at least a few, as I still love this board, and it works great in its current role. When one speaks of the lifetime of a capacitor, the usual meaning is the USEFUL lifetime; this lifetime is limited by the ability of the capacitor to provide sufficient capacitance without excessive resistance, as well as by catastrophic failure of the device. Capacity decreases with time and heat; resistance increases with time and heat. Excessive resistance leads to heating, and excessive heating causes internal pressure which leads to shorting or bursting. Electrolytic capacitors are not precision devices; the capacitance of an electrolytic typically is specified as +100 percent/-10 percent (or thereabouts). So a capacitor which has a nominal value of 100 microFarad may, when new, actually have a capacity anywhere in the range of 90mF to 200mF. It should be obvious that a nominal 100mF capacitor which starts out at 200mF is likely to have a longer useful life than is one which starts out at 90mF. If the capacitor is used in a filter circuit, the ripple increases as the capacitance falls. When the ripple becomes so great that the circuit no longer functions properly, the capacitor has reached the end of its useful life, even though it may still hold a charge. RLH -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101228014110.gc22...@rlharris.org
Re: need motherboard recommendation
Russell L. Harris put forth on 12/27/2010 7:10 PM: Ah-so! Now I see your point of confusion. At the start of the thread, I mentioned two motherboards -- a P5Q-EM and a M3A78-T. With the M3A78-T there were line artifacts. But with the P5Q-EM, the problem was simply that the display went blank when X started; there were no line artifacts. Thank you for clarifying that. Yes, I understood that you had the line problem with both motherboards. I understand what you are saying; but from my perspective, life is too short and components are too inexpensive to spend hours and days with this, when there is a work-around. I replaced the M3A78-T with another motherboard, using the same chassis and power supply, and there is no problem with line artifacts. The M3A78-T obviously is defective. Given my understanding of the problem, no matter how many times you swapped the motherboards the problem would persist because it lay in something other than the electronics. However, depending on the dollar value of one's time, I can wholly agree with your point. Replacing an entire PC with a branded unit can be done for around $300-400 sans monitor today, or with a cheap bundled 17 LCD during a sale (Dell, HP, etc). Replacing the entire unit would have solved the problem I foresaw. Although, one still has drive cloning or OS/app/data reinstall labor on the bill. If you have an easy and reliable drive cloning process this time is minimal. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d194431.1000...@hardwarefreak.com
need motherboard recommendation
I am tossing into the dumpster the last two motherboards which I purchased -- Asus M3A78-T (AMD64) and Asus P5Q-EM (i386) -- because of video problems. I purchased the boards because of the long-life solid capacitors. (Motherboard life typically is limited by deterioration of conventional electrolytic capacitors with age and heat.) With the M3A78-T, the POST screen displayed a cross-hatch pattern of horizontal and vertical red and green lines with a variety of monitors, both CRT and LCD. The pattern also is visible in terminal mode outside of X. Three trips back to Asus did not cure the problem. With the P5Q-EM, the display goes blank (out of range message on the monitor) when X starts. I need a recommendation for a reliable desktop motherboard for normal desktop use (no gaming) with Debian Lenny or Squeeze. My primary application is writing and typesetting with XEmacs, LaTeX, etc. I would prefer a motherboard with solid capacitors. I would prefer a brand other than Asus, and I would lean toward Gigabyte or Intel. If you recommend a motherboard without integrated graphics, kindly recommend also a readily-available graphics card. Thanks! RLH -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101226111217.ga3...@rlharris.org
Re: need motherboard recommendation
On Dec 26, 2010 6:12 AM, Russell L. Harris rlhar...@broadcaster.org wrote: I am tossing into the dumpster the last two motherboards which I purchased -- Asus M3A78-T (AMD64) and Asus P5Q-EM (i386) -- because of video problems. I purchased the boards because of the long-life solid capacitors. (Motherboard life typically is limited by deterioration of conventional electrolytic capacitors with age and heat.) I generally tend to go with supermicro or asus. However, I don't think that brand or manufacturing process are the issue here unless you bought cheap asus boards (they make everything from commodity to server products). So, assuming a decent board (it doesn't sound like you have a problem spending $200+ usd if you're replacing it because video is starting to fail vs just putting another video card in) then, I wonder about outside factors. First, have you had the machines plugged into a ups? Did you check your RAM before trashing the boards (and probably in another computer that doesn't use shared RAM for graphics as I don't know how memtest86 handles that)? Are you in a real humid or dry setting? Is it real hot all the time? Etc, etc. As for your issue with electrolytic caps (let me see if I can remember my electronics here). They are more suited for higher voltages and can hold a charge longer than the solid state variants. Personally, I like them better because when they blow, its visually noticeable (mushroom head or electrolyte all over the place). Lastly, I've got stereo cross over circuits with those caps that have been used for 10+ years. Point of all of this is, in most environments, I wouldn't really dwell on the caps one way or the other. Buy what works, treat it well and, in five years or so, you'll end up throwing away an old motherboard with perfectly good caps. As for specific board recommendations, I can't really give you any as I don't work that way. I either get whatever cheap dell I can get gold support on and then replace it or I get proliant servers. If this is truly a desktop system for you and nothing more, you might opt for the dell with gold support (crap hardware with insurance :) ).
Re: need motherboard recommendation
* shawn wilson ag4ve...@gmail.com [101226 12:28]: I don't think that brand or manufacturing process are the issue here unless you bought cheap asus boards Cheap boards generally do not have solid capacitors exclusively. purchased -- Asus M3A78-T (AMD64) and Asus P5Q-EM (i386) So, assuming a decent board (it doesn't sound like you have a problem spending $200+ usd if you're replacing it because video is starting to fail vs just putting another video card in) How can you trust a board (still in warranty) which has video problems, even if you use an external video card? then, I wonder about outside factors. First, have you had the machines plugged into a ups? UPS and surge arrestor. Did you check your RAM before trashing the boards (and probably in another computer that doesn't use shared RAM for graphics as I don't know how memtest86 handles that)? Recall that the M3A78-T made three RMA trips to Asus. If the RAM is defective, Asus should have detected it. Are you in a real humid or dry setting? Is it real hot all the time? Tropical mosquito swamp. Summer is hot and humid. Winter is cool and humid. There are two nice days a year; one is called spring and the other is called autumn. As for your issue with electrolytic caps (let me see if I can remember my electronics here). They are more suited for higher voltages and can hold a charge longer than the solid state variants. Personally, I like them better because when they blow, its visually noticeable (mushroom head or electrolyte all over the place). I am a graduate engineer with electronic expertise; you obviously do not understand electrolytic capacitors. Electrolytics are low-voltage capacitors; they tend to be leaky; they lose capacity with age; the aging process is accelerated by heat; they are subject to internal shorting. Even the best of electrolytics have a rated operating life of about five years. The heat generated by an internal short causes internal pressure to rise and may cause the case to burst. Electrolyte from a burst capacitor can ruin a motherboard. Electrolytic capacitors are widely used because they provide high capacity in a small volume at a relatively low price. Ten years or so ago, electrolytic failures gave every motherboard manufacturer much grief, because after only a three to six months of service, many of the electrolytics had decreased in capacitance to the point that the associated circuitry quit working. This problem was front-page news for months in professional electronic design journals. It is this problem which has lead to the use of so-called solid capacitors (there is no such thing as a solid-STATE capacitor) on motherboards, despite the higher cost. Lastly, I've got stereo cross over circuits with those caps that have been used for 10+ years. And as the electrolytics decrease in capacity, the crossover frequencies change. But the human ear becomes accustomed to slow changes. A frequency response curve made with a calibrated microphone likely would surprise you. Point of all of this is, in most environments, I wouldn't really dwell on the caps one way or the other. Buy what works, treat it well and, in five years or so, you'll end up throwing away an old motherboard with perfectly good caps. Not so. In five years, the typical electrolytic has only a small fraction of its nominal capacity, so that parameters (such as ripple and time constants) of the circuit of which the capacitor is a part are outside of specification. There may be as many as a hundred capacitors on a motherboard; many of the function as essential elements of the power supply circuit. As for specific board recommendations, I can't really give you any as I don't work that way. I either get whatever cheap dell I can get gold support on and then replace it or I get proliant servers. If this is truly a desktop system for you and nothing more, you might opt for the dell with gold support (crap hardware with insurance :) ). Obviously reliability means nothing to you. You really should not speak concerning things of which you are ignorant and about which you are indifferent. All in all, you and a Dell appear to be made for one another. RLH -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101226132256.ga16...@rlharris.org
Re: need motherboard recommendation
Russell L. Harris put forth on 12/26/2010 5:12 AM: I am tossing into the dumpster the last two motherboards which I purchased -- Asus M3A78-T (AMD64) and Asus P5Q-EM (i386) -- because of video problems. Two? With the M3A78-T, the POST screen displayed a cross-hatch pattern of horizontal and vertical red and green lines with a variety of monitors, both CRT and LCD. The pattern also is visible in terminal mode outside of X. Three trips back to Asus did not cure the problem. Sounds more like a DDC problem with your monitor, which you didn't bother to mention. Now would be a good time to provide us with the make and model# of your CRT/LCD monitor, what refresh setting you were using, color depth, etc. It sounds like it may be a sync issue. This, assuming neither of these boards every worked with said monitor. You didn't state a sequence of events, i.e. what failed when. We need that information to help you. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d1742fa.60...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: need motherboard recommendation
* Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com [101226 13:35]: Russell L. Harris put forth on 12/26/2010 5:12 AM: I am tossing into the dumpster the last two motherboards which I purchased -- Asus M3A78-T (AMD64) and Asus P5Q-EM (i386) -- because of video problems. Two? Hi, Stan. It really isn't so odd; after months (several weeks total in transit) of messing around with the M3A78-T without success, I decided to replace it; thus, the P5Q-EM. I long have used Asus boards, but (after a failure of the USB circuitry on yet another Asus board) I think that the P5Q-EM is going to be my last one. With the M3A78-T, the POST screen displayed a cross-hatch pattern of horizontal and vertical red and green lines with a variety of monitors, both CRT and LCD. The pattern also is visible in terminal mode outside of X. Three trips back to Asus did not cure the problem. Sounds more like a DDC problem with your monitor, which you didn't bother to mention. Two different CRTs (iiyama and KDS XF-7G); two different LCD (NEC 1760NX). It seems to me unlikely that the same symptom is seen with all of these, unless the motherboard is at fault. Of course, with the P5Q-EM, the problem has to do with Xorg. Now would be a good time to provide us with the make and model# of your CRT/LCD monitor, what refresh setting you were using, color depth, etc. It sounds like it may be a sync issue. Again, the red and green lines with the M3A78-T are apparent even in the POST displays. Thankfully, with the P5Q-EM -- on which I just moments ago completed the installation of Squeeze -- the installation of Squeeze solved the problem! X is working! This, assuming neither of these boards every worked with said monitor. You didn't state a sequence of events, i.e. what failed when. We need that information to help you. Back to the M3A78-T: Inasmuch as I generally turn on the machine then grab a cup of coffee while it boots, I seldom notice the POST; X is running when I sit down to log in. And I seldom use terminal mode. Consequently, I had been running the system for several months before I noticed the red and green lines on the back background. The lines are thin and somewhat faint, but once you notice them they are very apparent. RLH -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101226140047.gb16...@rlharris.org
Re: need motherboard recommendation
On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 11:12:17 + Russell L. Harris rlhar...@broadcaster.org wrote: I am tossing into the dumpster the last two motherboards which I purchased -- Asus M3A78-T (AMD64) and Asus P5Q-EM (i386) -- because of video problems. I purchased the boards because of the long-life solid capacitors. (Motherboard life typically is limited by deterioration of conventional electrolytic capacitors with age and heat.) With the M3A78-T, the POST screen displayed a cross-hatch pattern of horizontal and vertical red and green lines with a variety of monitors, both CRT and LCD. The pattern also is visible in terminal mode outside of X. Three trips back to Asus did not cure the problem. With the P5Q-EM, the display goes blank (out of range message on the monitor) when X starts. I need a recommendation for a reliable desktop motherboard for normal desktop use (no gaming) with Debian Lenny or Squeeze. My primary application is writing and typesetting with XEmacs, LaTeX, etc. I would prefer a motherboard with solid capacitors. I would prefer a brand other than Asus, and I would lean toward Gigabyte or Intel. If you recommend a motherboard without integrated graphics, kindly recommend also a readily-available graphics card. I've had a Giga GA-MA74GM-S2H for a year now. It hasn't died yet, and I can't really say more than that. The most exotic stuff I do is gEDA PCB layout, and I'm not aware of any performance problems. Built-in sound and graphics, using 1440x900/60, running Sid in 2G RAM. I'd have thought MB trouble was rare enough that you won't get statistically useful results. I have run two Asrock (cheap Asus brand) boards for several years with no trouble, and still have them as I don't like throwing things out when they still work normally, I just wanted more power after a few years. As to capacitors: the only ones I would deliberately avoid are the surface-mount aluminium types, the silver ones with the black arc on top to show polarity. I've replaced many hundreds in the last fifteen years or so, repaired the PCBs as necessary, and repaired and tested boards after literally thousands of the little beasts have been replaced by other people. Before they die they distribute electrolyte over the surrounding PCB, and that stuff eats copper, particularly plate-throughs. It's also, rather obviously, conductive, and I've seen a puddle of the stuff draw half an amp from a five-volt rail. I've never seen a wired capacitor do that kind of thing. The wired ones are bigger, but there's not much height restriction on a MB. -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101226161920.31498...@jresid.jretrading.com
Re: need motherboard recommendation
On Sunday 26 December 2010 09:00 am, Russell L. Harris wrote: * Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com [101226 13:35]: Russell L. Harris put forth on 12/26/2010 5:12 AM: I am tossing into the dumpster the last two motherboards which I purchased -- Asus M3A78-T (AMD64) and Asus P5Q-EM (i386) -- because of video problems. With the M3A78-T, the POST screen displayed a cross-hatch pattern of horizontal and vertical red and green lines with a variety of monitors, both CRT and LCD. The pattern also is visible in terminal mode outside of X. Three trips back to Asus did not cure the problem. Well OK. So, this seems to me to be a memory problem. I'm guessing the video ram. Whatever memory the 80X25 mode is mapping into has become flaky. When you start X, you are using different memory, so no problem. Why didn't ASUS solve the problem? dunno. Perhaps, once the MB booted into whatever they tested with (X, MS-Win, whatever), the problem isn't apparent. Their bad. Also, the problem does not seem to affect the operation of the MB once it is booted. So, how much worse is this than annoying? Of course, you know that you can look at udev and the logs to see all the boot messages once the PC is in X. Did I miss something? Now, for something else that just occurred to meAre you using the same VGA cable when you attach the different monitors to the different motherboards? Could it be the cable, or are there instances where the cable works properly? Mark -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012261211.45824.m...@neidorff.com
Re: need motherboard recommendation
Russell L. Harris wrote: I am tossing into the dumpster the last two motherboards which I purchased -- Asus M3A78-T (AMD64) and Asus P5Q-EM (i386) -- because of video problems. I purchased the boards because of the long-life solid capacitors. (Motherboard life typically is limited by deterioration of conventional electrolytic capacitors with age and heat.) With the M3A78-T, the POST screen displayed a cross-hatch pattern of horizontal and vertical red and green lines with a variety of monitors, both CRT and LCD. The pattern also is visible in terminal mode outside of X. Three trips back to Asus did not cure the problem. With the P5Q-EM, the display goes blank (out of range message on the monitor) when X starts. I need a recommendation for a reliable desktop motherboard for normal desktop use (no gaming) with Debian Lenny or Squeeze. My primary application is writing and typesetting with XEmacs, LaTeX, etc. I would prefer a motherboard with solid capacitors. I would prefer a brand other than Asus, and I would lean toward Gigabyte or Intel. If you recommend a motherboard without integrated graphics, kindly recommend also a readily-available graphics card. No Asus? Too bad. I really like my Asus M4N98TD EVO. First mobo I bought that worked out-of-the-box. Hugo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/if7uha$sk...@dough.gmane.org
Re: need motherboard recommendation
On Dec 26, 2010 12:11 PM, Mark Neidorff m...@neidorff.com wrote: On Sunday 26 December 2010 09:00 am, Russell L. Harris wrote: * Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com [101226 13:35]: Russell L. Harris put forth on 12/26/2010 5:12 AM: I am tossing into the dumpster the last two motherboards which I purchased -- Asus M3A78-T (AMD64) and Asus P5Q-EM (i386) -- because of video problems. With the M3A78-T, the POST screen displayed a cross-hatch pattern of horizontal and vertical red and green lines with a variety of monitors, both CRT and LCD. The pattern also is visible in terminal mode outside of X. Three trips back to Asus did not cure the problem. Well OK. So, this seems to me to be a memory problem. I'm guessing the video ram. Whatever memory the 80X25 mode is mapping into has become flaky. When you start X, you are using different memory, so no problem. Why didn't ASUS solve the problem? dunno. Perhaps, once the MB booted into whatever they tested with (X, MS-Win, whatever), the problem isn't apparent. Their bad. Also, the problem does not seem to affect the operation of the MB once it is booted. So, how much worse is this than annoying? Of course, you know that you can look at udev and the logs to see all the boot messages once the PC is in X. Did I miss something? Now, for something else that just occurred to meAre you using the same VGA cable when you attach the different monitors to the different motherboards? Could it be the cable, or are there instances where the cable works properly? Could also be that he's using analog vga with no choke and is picking up RF or other line noise somewhere. Still think its RAM though. Asus wouldn't see that on an rma unless it was an issue with integrated video RAM and not shared RAM which comes from the modules he takes out before he sends it back. Oh and AFAIK, manufacturers don't generally test equipment before they process the rma. Just the $.02 from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about and likes dell (actually Apple). :)
Re: need motherboard recommendation
On 12/26/2010 11:19 AM, Joe wrote: On Sun, 26 Dec 2010 11:12:17 + Russell L. Harrisrlhar...@broadcaster.org wrote: I am tossing into the dumpster the last two motherboards which I purchased -- Asus M3A78-T (AMD64) and Asus P5Q-EM (i386) -- because of video problems. I purchased the boards because of the long-life solid capacitors. (Motherboard life typically is limited by deterioration of conventional electrolytic capacitors with age and heat.) With the M3A78-T, the POST screen displayed a cross-hatch pattern of horizontal and vertical red and green lines with a variety of monitors, both CRT and LCD. The pattern also is visible in terminal mode outside of X. Three trips back to Asus did not cure the problem. With the P5Q-EM, the display goes blank (out of range message on the monitor) when X starts. I need a recommendation for a reliable desktop motherboard for normal desktop use (no gaming) with Debian Lenny or Squeeze. My primary application is writing and typesetting with XEmacs, LaTeX, etc. I would prefer a motherboard with solid capacitors. I would prefer a brand other than Asus, and I would lean toward Gigabyte or Intel. If you recommend a motherboard without integrated graphics, kindly recommend also a readily-available graphics card. I've had a Giga GA-MA74GM-S2H for a year now. It hasn't died yet, and I can't really say more than that. The most exotic stuff I do is gEDA PCB layout, and I'm not aware of any performance problems. Built-in sound and graphics, using 1440x900/60, running Sid in 2G RAM. I'd have thought MB trouble was rare enough that you won't get statistically useful results. I have run two Asrock (cheap Asus brand) boards for several years with no trouble, and still have them as I don't like throwing things out when they still work normally, I just wanted more power after a few years. As to capacitors: the only ones I would deliberately avoid are the surface-mount aluminium types, the silver ones with the black arc on top to show polarity. I've replaced many hundreds in the last fifteen years or so, repaired the PCBs as necessary, and repaired and tested boards after literally thousands of the little beasts have been replaced by other people. Before they die they distribute electrolyte over the surrounding PCB, and that stuff eats copper, particularly plate-throughs. It's also, rather obviously, conductive, and I've seen a puddle of the stuff draw half an amp from a five-volt rail. I've never seen a wired capacitor do that kind of thing. The wired ones are bigger, but there's not much height restriction on a MB. Maybe it's time to buy tantalum capacitors. More expensive, slightly smaller, and (I believe) less likely to blow up. Available with parallel wires or in surface mount configurations. Military equipment has been using tantalum caps for years, so they must be reliable. (If anybody from a QA department is on line, maybe you'd comment.) --doug -- Blessed are the peacemakers...for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A. M. Greeley -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4d17aba5.4060...@optonline.net
Re: need motherboard recommendation
* Mark Neidorff m...@neidorff.com [101226 22:56]: Well OK. So, this seems to me to be a memory problem. I'm guessing the video ram. Whatever memory the 80X25 mode is mapping into has become flaky. When you start X, you are using different memory, so no problem. Why didn't ASUS solve the problem? dunno. Perhaps, once the MB booted into whatever they tested with (X, MS-Win, whatever), the problem isn't apparent. Their bad. Also, the problem does not seem to affect the operation of the MB once it is booted. So, how much worse is this than annoying? Thanks, Mark. Your diagnosis makes sense. If the problem indeed is in the video ram, am I correct in assuming that I should have no great concern regarding data integrity in the other systems of the motherboard? Of course, you know that you can look at udev and the logs to see all the boot messages once the PC is in X. Did I miss something? No, I did not know that. I have been running Debian for ten years now, but I never have learned to use the logs. Now, for something else that just occurred to meAre you using the same VGA cable when you attach the different monitors to the different motherboards? Could it be the cable, or are there instances where the cable works properly? No, each monitor has its own cable. And the lines (horizontal and vertical, red and green) do not appear with any other motherboard which I have attached to these monitors. %%% The only other possibility which occurred to me is that the difference in temperature or humidity between the Asus US service facility and my location may have caused the symptom to disappear and reappear. For example. Years ago a co-worker was puzzled by a dead short between two solder pads on a populated circuit board; he expected to see an open circuit. Several individuals had inspected the board with a magnifying glass, no solder bridge was visible. It turned out that the pads in question were used for a large component which had been soldered by hand. The factory-made board had been flow-soldered and cleaned. But the pads for the large component had not been cleaned after soldering, and the pool of hardened rosin was shorting the pads, despite the fact that, normally, the residue of rosin-core solder is an insulator and does not need to be removed. Cleaning off the rosin cured the problem. Something of the same sort may be happening on the motherboard. RLH -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101226234641.ga3...@rlharris.org
Re: need motherboard recommendation
* Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net [101226 22:56]: Maybe it's time to buy tantalum capacitors. More expensive, slightly smaller, and (I believe) less likely to blow up. Available with parallel wires or in surface mount configurations. Military equipment has been using tantalum caps for years, so they must be reliable. Tantalums are good, but manufacturers consider them a little too expensive for mass-produced motherboards. Tantalums are valuable when you need high capacitance in a high-frequency application; the capacitance of electrolytic diminishes rapidly with increasing frequency. This is why you often see two or more capacitors in parallel; typically a tiny, low-value ceramic (which has excellent high-frequency performance) is paralleled with a high-value electrolytic -- and the combination still is less expensive than a single tantalum. You can make almost anything explode (that is, fragment) if you apply enough voltage and current. Years ago I had several clones of the LM317 three-terminal regulator explode when the output was shorted; this despite the fact that the data sheet claims that the device withstands a short of infinite duration. I phoned National Semiconductor and it was Bob Pease who picked up the telephone. I began by saying, I have some LM317s manufactured by one of your competitors... But before I could say another word, Bob interrupted to ask, Was anyone hurt when they exploded? Bob went on to say that National short-circuit tested every LM317, and the ones that explode don't get shipped. It is episodes such as this that have made Pease a living legend among electrical engineers. But even if you manage to blow up a tantalum, there is no electrolyte to spill. %%% If I recall correctly, the problem which I cited was caused by manufacturing changes regarding the chemistry of electrolytics. The problem eventually was solved by further manufacturing changes in the chemistry of the electrolytics, but not before a great many short-lived motherboards were manufactured and sold. I remember that Tyan in particular received much bad publicity from the matter, and that some motherboards failed within three to six months of being placed in service. (Something similar happened with alkaline cells when the get rid of the mercury mandate came out several years ago. It turns out that mercury reduces gassing, and mercury-free cells gassed so badly that they leaked electrolyte.) Finally, I was in error regarding the P5Q-EM; it employs solid capacitors only in the critical power supply circuitry surrounding the processor; other capacitors on the board are electrolytic. This is typical of the garden-variety motherboards which I see on display at the local electronics emporium. RLH -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101227002514.gb3...@rlharris.org
Re: need motherboard recommendation
* Hugo Vanwoerkom hvw59...@care2.com [101226 22:56]: No Asus? Too bad. I really like my Asus M4N98TD EVO. First mobo I bought that worked out-of-the-box. Hi, Hugo, Thanks for the recommendation. I suppose that I should look again at Asus, now that Squeeze has X working on the M3A78-T. RLH -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101227002856.gc3...@rlharris.org
Re: need motherboard recommendation
On Sunday 26 December 2010 06:46 pm, Russell L. Harris wrote: * Mark Neidorff m...@neidorff.com [101226 22:56]: Well OK. So, this seems to me to be a memory problem. I'm guessing the video ram. Whatever memory the 80X25 mode is mapping into has become flaky. When you start X, you are using different memory, so no problem. Why didn't ASUS solve the problem? dunno. Perhaps, once the MB booted into whatever they tested with (X, MS-Win, whatever), the problem isn't apparent. Their bad. Also, the problem does not seem to affect the operation of the MB once it is booted. So, how much worse is this than annoying? Thanks, Mark. Your diagnosis makes sense. If the problem indeed is in the video ram, am I correct in assuming that I should have no great concern regarding data integrity in the other systems of the motherboard? You are correct. The system boots into X correctly and runs correctly. So, it is working correctly. You've got a non-fatal glitch in the memory that the PC doesn't use when it runs. The only other possibility which occurred to me is that the difference in temperature or humidity between the Asus US service facility and my location may have caused the symptom to disappear and reappear. Yes, you seem to be in a tropical area. Perhaps an extreme tropical area. Extreme heat/humidity will make things behave in ahem unusual ways as you already know. This doesn't necessarily point to a generic flaw from the manufacturer. The unit you have could be on the edge of tolerance and your extreme conditions pushes it over. You are lucky that it only affects the boot video. Mark -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201012261927.23872.m...@neidorff.com
