Re: next LTS version?

[Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희, 黃炳熙)]

In Article <20180704095507.ga20...@darac.org.uk>,
 Darac Marjal  writes:

> [...snip...]
> Bullseye come out some time in 2021 or 2022. So... don't hold your
> breath.

Thank you for kind comments^^^

Sincerely, Byung-Hee.

-- 
^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: next LTS version?

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Wed, Jul 04, 2018 at 11:22:29AM +0100, Tixy wrote:
> 
> It's not quite 'fully supported'. The extra support (after the standard
> approx 3 years) is only for a subset of architectures and packages [1].
> Also, hat support isn't done by the Debian security team, which in my
> experience means that security updates can come day's or weeks after
> the Stable release gets them. (That isn't intended to be a criticism of
> the people working on LTS, just an observation so people considering
> relying on LTS know they may need to be a bit more proactive when
> security issues emerge.)
> 
I have also seen the opposite happen plenty of times: the LTS package
gets an update before the stable package. 

That sort of thing has to do with the different workloads for each of
the teams.  As you point out, the Security team has responsibility over
more packages than the LTS team.  There are also plenty of instances
where the fix that applies to the package in one suite also applies to
the package in the other.  It might make sense to wait for the stable
fix to be completed and then applied to the LTS package.  That results
in less duplicate work.

Additionally, I have seen (actually prepared myself) a package where the
LTS patch was done before the security team even began to look at the
package in stable.  As a result, I applied the patches to the package in
stable and since they applied cleanly, I submitted it to the security
team.  The stable updated came several days after the LTS update of the
package because, as I am not a member of the regular Security team, one
of the team members had to review the changes.

Other members of the LTS team have done the same thing on various
packages at some point or another.

I simply want to point this out to prevent the impression that LTS
constantly lags behind stable.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

Re: next LTS version?

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 04 July 2018 04:50:43 didier gaumet wrote:

> Le 03/07/2018 à 23:52, Gene Heskett a écrit :
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > Since wheezy is pretty much EOL even for security stuffs, whats the
> > next version that will be LTS?
>
> From what I gather: *all* Debian stable releases are LTS for the
> relevant architectures (nowadays: x86, amd64, armhf). A possible
> source of confusion is that a stable release is managed by the Debian
> Team until its standard EOL and then by a different Debian LTS Team
> until its LTS EOL.
>
> > As a linuxcnc fan, I'd like to know what I have to build a rt, or
> > rtai-kernel on.
>
> I have never built a realtime kernel, but basically is it not about
> configuring relevant PREEMPT kernel options?
>
> And if have standard RT needs, you probably should not have to build a
> kernel at all:
> https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/linux-image-rt-686-pae
> https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/linux-image-rt-amd64
> https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/rtai

I get my sources from the kernels rt- git  currently at 4.14-rt, and 
have built it in under an hour on a rock64 for arm64, working on a usb3 
attached drive. But before I could figure a way to install it to the 
stretch it is running, the drive puked all over itself and no longer 
spins up. So that work was lost. But I wasn't aware that debian actually
had rtai kernels available. That version is somewhat newer than my 
machines are running.

But since I can get the sources for much newer rt kernels, I'd much 
druther build that and future-proof things for a couple years.

But in terms of stability, jessie on the armhf (r-pi-3b) wins that
argument rather handily, which would mean I'd have support till the
end of june 2020. Stretch isn't there yet, at least not on the arm64,
not very stable, with 99% of its problems being related to a desktop
login that been broken since the install. So what little I do on it,
is done by a net login via ssh. And in 6 months, that well known problem
has not been fixed, so I am less than impressed.

I have a wheezy install on a spare old Dell I keep current to program 
mesa cards with, running from an ssd and if it could be updated to
jessie w/o losing the data on it, would be a nearly ideal build-bot for 
me. Just let it chug away until the new kernel build is done. Might even
be able, once up to jessie and the newer gcc, to cross-build for armhf 
or arm64. Thats something I won't attempt on the pi as its limited
memory would make that at least a week long job probably failing in the
linker phase, binutils needs more ram than the pi has.

Is there such an updater that would take that old dell from current 
wheezy to current jessie?

If so, where do I get that package? Network is available to all machines
here except that rock64.

Unforch, that stretch machine has lost the ability to define a gateway.
This is a local host based network, so how do I fix that? Here is what 
did work a week ago, but now does not and nothing has been changed:

rock64@rock64:~$ cat /etc/network/interfaces.d/eth0
auto eth0
allow-hotplug eth0
iface eth0 inet static
address 192.168.71.2
netmask 255.255.255.0
gateway 192.168.71.1
dns-nameserver 192.168.71.1

But this morning a route -n shows no gateway:
rock64@rock64:~$ sudo route -n
Kernel IP routing table
Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric RefUse Iface
0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 U 20200 eth0
169.254.0.0 0.0.0.0 255.255.0.0 U 20200 eth0
192.168.71.00.0.0.0 255.255.255.0   U 0  00 eth0

Just for completeness, resolv.conf which is a real file:
rock64@rock64:~$ cat /etc/resolv.conf
nameserver 192.168.71.1
search hosts,dns
domain coyote.den

If someone knows how to fix that, and keep it fixed in a static network,
I'd be thankfull.

Thanks for reading this far.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: next LTS version?

[Tixy]

On Wed, 2018-07-04 at 10:55 +0100, Darac Marjal wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 04, 2018 at 07:53:49AM +0900, Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희, 黃炳熙)
> wrote:
> > In Article <201807031752.13571.ghesk...@shentel.net>,
> > Gene Heskett  writes:
> > 
> > > Greetings all;
> > > 
> > > Since wheezy is pretty much EOL even for security stuffs, whats
> > > the next
> > > version that will be LTS?
> > > 
> > > As a linuxcnc fan, I'd like to know what I have to build a rt, or
> > > rtai-kernel on.
> > > 
> > 
> > Well i don't know what LTS is, however day by day i am waiting for
> > Bullseye, very much!!!
> 
> LTS = Long Term Stable.

To nit-pick, LTS = Long Term Support

>  That is, a version of stable which is 
> fully-supported for 5 years (rather than the 3 years of a standard 
> release).

It's not quite 'fully supported'. The extra support (after the standard
approx 3 years) is only for a subset of architectures and packages [1].
Also, hat support isn't done by the Debian security team, which in my
experience means that security updates can come day's or weeks after
the Stable release gets them. (That isn't intended to be a criticism of
the people working on LTS, just an observation so people considering
relying on LTS know they may need to be a bit more proactive when
security issues emerge.)

[1] https://wiki.debian.org/LTS/FAQ#What_architectures_are_supported.3F

-- 
Tixy

Re: next LTS version?

[Darac Marjal]

On Wed, Jul 04, 2018 at 07:53:49AM +0900, Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희, 黃炳熙) wrote:

In Article <201807031752.13571.ghesk...@shentel.net>,
Gene Heskett  writes:


Greetings all;

Since wheezy is pretty much EOL even for security stuffs, whats the next
version that will be LTS?

As a linuxcnc fan, I'd like to know what I have to build a rt, or
rtai-kernel on.



Well i don't know what LTS is, however day by day i am waiting for
Bullseye, very much!!!


LTS = Long Term Stable. That is, a version of stable which is 
fully-supported for 5 years (rather than the 3 years of a standard 
release).


Bullseye is the provisional name for the next but one release of Debian. 
Assuming that Buster is released at the expected time (NOT scheduled. Debian is 
released when it's ready), we can expect to see Bullseye come out some time in 
2021 or 2022. So... don't hold your breath.



Sincerely, Byung-Hee.



--
For more information, please reread.


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Re: next LTS version?

[didier gaumet]

Le 03/07/2018 à 23:52, Gene Heskett a écrit :
> Greetings all;
> 
> Since wheezy is pretty much EOL even for security stuffs, whats the next 
> version that will be LTS?

>From what I gather: *all* Debian stable releases are LTS for the
relevant architectures (nowadays: x86, amd64, armhf). A possible source
of confusion is that a stable release is managed by the Debian Team
until its standard EOL and then by a different Debian LTS Team until its
LTS EOL.

> As a linuxcnc fan, I'd like to know what I have to build a rt, or 
> rtai-kernel on.

I have never built a realtime kernel, but basically is it not about
configuring relevant PREEMPT kernel options?

And if have standard RT needs, you probably should not have to build a
kernel at all:
https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/linux-image-rt-686-pae
https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/linux-image-rt-amd64
https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/rtai

Re: next LTS version?

[Byung-Hee HWANG (황병희, 黃炳熙)]

In Article <201807031752.13571.ghesk...@shentel.net>,
 Gene Heskett  writes:

> Greetings all;
>
> Since wheezy is pretty much EOL even for security stuffs, whats the next 
> version that will be LTS?
>
> As a linuxcnc fan, I'd like to know what I have to build a rt, or 
> rtai-kernel on.
>

Well i don't know what LTS is, however day by day i am waiting for
 Bullseye, very much!!! 

Sincerely, Byung-Hee.

-- 
^고맙습니다 _救濟蒼生_ 감사합니다_^))//

Re: next LTS version?

[Matthew Crews]

On 07/03/2018 02:52 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
> 
> Since wheezy is pretty much EOL even for security stuffs, whats the next
> version that will be LTS?
> 
> As a linuxcnc fan, I'd like to know what I have to build a rt, or
> rtai-kernel on.
> 

Jessie is now the LTS version, until 2020.

https://wiki.debian.org/LTS

See also this post on the Debian website:

https://www.debian.org/News/2018/20180601

Re: next LTS version?

[Matthew Crews]

On 07/03/2018 02:52 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
> 
> Since wheezy is pretty much EOL even for security stuffs, whats the next
> version that will be LTS?
> 
> As a linuxcnc fan, I'd like to know what I have to build a rt, or
> rtai-kernel on.
> 

Jessie is now the LTS version, until 2020.

https://wiki.debian.org/LTS

See also this post on the Debian website:

https://www.debian.org/News/2018/20180601

Re: next LTS version?

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 03 July 2018 17:56:23 Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 03, 2018 at 05:52:13PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > Since wheezy is pretty much EOL even for security stuffs, whats the
> > next version that will be LTS?
> >
> > As a linuxcnc fan, I'd like to know what I have to build a rt, or
> > rtai-kernel on.
>
> Depending on your use case, the limited support which continues for
> wheezy mighty adequate for your needs:
>
> https://deb.freexian.com/extended-lts/
>
Humm, TANSTAAFL. Lowest cost per year is 300 USD. I'd have to discuss 
that with the better half.

However its nice to know there is a possibility of its being self 
supporting.  Thank you for the link.
 
> Regards,
>
> -Roberto



-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: next LTS version?

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Tue, Jul 03, 2018 at 05:52:13PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
> 
> Since wheezy is pretty much EOL even for security stuffs, whats the next 
> version that will be LTS?
> 
> As a linuxcnc fan, I'd like to know what I have to build a rt, or 
> rtai-kernel on.
> 
Depending on your use case, the limited support which continues for
wheezy mighty adequate for your needs:

https://deb.freexian.com/extended-lts/

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

next LTS version?

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

Since wheezy is pretty much EOL even for security stuffs, whats the next 
version that will be LTS?

As a linuxcnc fan, I'd like to know what I have to build a rt, or 
rtai-kernel on.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page