Re: Realtek ethernet (was Re: recent mobo recommendation)
> Ron Johnson put forth on 4/14/2010 10:14 PM: > Nothing I've seen in dmesg has ever led me to think > that the r8169 > driver in my Sid linux-source-2.6.31 kernel (yes, it's > old; .32 and 33 > fail to build) loads a blob. > Nothin Almost all NICs load firmware blobs. It's in dmesg somewhere. When the firmware doesn't load you get something like this in dmesg: eth1: RTL8168d/8111d at 0xc9c4e000,xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx, XID 083000c0 IRQ 32 eth1: unable to apply firmware patch That's a paste from one of the OPs here who was bitten by the 2.6.32-trunk upgrade which IIRC is the one that ripped out the RTL firmware blob. I can't find via Google a dmesg snippet of a successful RTL firmware load. Here's what it looks like for Intel 8255X using the e100 driver, with the firmware blobs all compiled into the kernel: e100 :00:0d.0: firmware: using built-in firmware e100/d101m_ucode.bin "built-in" signifies that the firmware blob has been included in the kernel at compile time. I do this to avoid issues such as this RTL problem. It only adds a couple hundred K to the kernel image. And I use the vanilla kernel.org sources to avoid any Debian "non-free" issues. Just about every NIC on the planet uses a firmware blob. There are, IIRC, 3 ways to load the device firmware into the Linux kernel. This applies to all devices that require soft firmware, not just NICs: 1. Compile all device firmware blobs into the kernel 2. Compile the individual blob into the driver, use initrd 3. Put firmware file in root filesystem, tell kernel the path #3 won't work with drivers that are needed during the boot process such as block device drivers. Those require method 1 or 2. NICs should be able to use 1-3. There are 3 different dmesg statements and 3 different errors depending on which method 1-3 above that you're using. >> At least a couple of people on this list went out and bought >> non-RealTek PCI >> NICs to fix the problem instead of reverting to the >> older kernel. > > I sort of remember that. Yeah, I just pulled the mails. One upgraded to 2.6.32-trunk on his firewall, bricking it until he disabled the onboard RTL and installed an Intel e100 IIRC. They thought it was a udev issue til I noticed the firmware load failure message referenced up above in this email. The other had an RTL wireless that failed for the same reason. I can't recall how they fixed that one. IIRC the OP didn't swap hardware to achieve the fix, so they did something with the kernel/driver/firmware. > I'm not surprised. Since I'm only connected to a small 100Mbps class='per'>LAN > which then connects to a 12Mbps cable modem, it doesn't really affect me. Do some FTP or SCP tests back and forth to another LAN machine and see what transfers rates you get out of that RTL chip. I bet you get 1/3rd wire speed at best, about 30MB/s, if even that. The machines themselves need to be modern to saturate the link--no slow CPUs or disks. Any ~2GHz CPU with 512MB RAM and a decent 7.2K RPM SATA disk should be able to push/pull 50MB/s across the wire. For that matter, eliminate the disk by creating a 200MB RAM disk on each machine. Create a test file with dd and FTP/SCP it back and forth between the RAM disks. If your RTL chip can peak the wire it'll be a 2-3 second transfer if your network chips and Linux TCP stacks are up to the task. > Maybe if I ever get .32 or .33 I'll squeal in anger. Until then... It's looking like the RTL firmware blob issue may have been limited to the trunk kernel. You may get lucky. Then again, if you roll your own and put the firmware blobs in the kernel itself as I do, you shouldn't have a problem. That is, if the Debian kernel source doesn't have the blob ripped out for being "non-free". You mentioned you had problems building 2.6.32 and .33 kernel source. Do you use the Debian kernel source or kernel.org source? I've been using the kernel.org source for quite some time and have never had any real problems with it (knocks on wood). I had a build problem with .33 a while back but that turned out to be due to a slight bit too much overclock on my machine in this warmer weather. ;) -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bc6960e.7020...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: recent mobo recommendation
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ron Johnson wrote: ATX means you'll get lots of built-in features. I like my Gigabyte GA-MA780G-UD3H mobo with AM2+/AM2 socket. 8GM RAM, 6 SATA, 1 (or 2, I forget) rear eSATA, lots of USB, a front and rear Firewire and decent on-board audio. On-board ATI video with separate video RAM, but I installed a fanless NVIDIA card because the driver situation is *simple*, and it's fast. That's good to hear, and it makes me curious. Does the simple refer to the open-source or the closed-source NVIDIA driver? And is it general consensus that NVIDIA is easier to deal with than ATI? After all, you installed a card after you already had on-board graphics. Also, I vagely recall having heard that a 64bit-OS might be trickier to deal with when it comes to graphics drivers. Is that true? Here I see 8 Gig of RAM, hence presumably a 64bit system. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkvLZxkACgkQ+VSRxYk4409sSQCeLyHCUBOv+T2BggQSJxn+ohGb IM8AoNU3KYTW4LpVzR9HJkXB+GMMk1ac =SHLp -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bcb6719.3030...@web.de
Re: recent mobo recommendation
On 2010-04-18 15:10, Clive McBarton wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: ATX means you'll get lots of built-in features. I like my Gigabyte GA-MA780G-UD3H mobo with AM2+/AM2 socket. 8GM RAM, 6 SATA, 1 (or 2, I forget) rear eSATA, lots of USB, a front and rear Firewire and decent on-board audio. On-board ATI video with separate video RAM, but I installed a fanless NVIDIA card because the driver situation is *simple*, and it's fast. That's good to hear, and it makes me curious. Does the simple refer to the open-source or the closed-source NVIDIA driver? Yes. There's only two (although there are multiple versions of the binary driver). ATI has r128, radeon, radeonhd, fglrx and catalyst. And is it general consensus that NVIDIA is easier to deal with than ATI? I think so... After all, you installed a card after you already had on-board graphics. Also, I vagely recall having heard that a 64bit-OS might be trickier to deal with when it comes to graphics drivers. Maybe with ATI cards, but not Nvidia. Both the nv and nvidia drivers come in 32 and 64 bit versions. Is that true? Here I see 8 Gig of RAM, hence presumably a 64bit system. The beauty of modern 64-bit archs is that you can have a 32-bit distro with a 64-bit kernel. -- Dissent is patriotic, remember? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bcb6c48.7000...@cox.net
Re: recent mobo recommendation
Ron Johnson wrote: On 2010-04-15 13:55, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: [snip] ATX means you'll get lots of built-in features. I like my Gigabyte GA-MA780G-UD3H mobo with AM2+/AM2 socket. 8GM RAM, 6 SATA, 1 (or 2, I forget) rear eSATA, lots of USB, a front and rear Firewire and decent on-board audio. On-board ATI video with separate video RAM, but I installed a fanless NVIDIA card because the driver situation is *simple*, and it's fast. Too bad it's a NewEgg outofstock item: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128382 This looks like the successor. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128411 But then there is the Realtek 8111C chip issue again. I prefer not to have to revert to compiling my own kernel again. Hugo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/hqadgb$ag...@dough.gmane.org
Re: Realtek ethernet (was Re: recent mobo recommendation)
bri...@aracnet.com put forth on 4/15/2010 12:08 AM: And .32-trunk is the running kernel, has been for some time, and I've rebooted several times. Did up aptitude upgrade to the .32-trunk kernel or is your .32-trunk kernel what resulted from a fresh install? Also, what architecture is your kernel? Most, if not all, of the commenters in the bug were using amd64 kernels. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bc6ab56.20...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: Realtek ethernet (was Re: recent mobo recommendation)
Ron Johnson wrote: On 2010-04-14 21:58, Stan Hoeppner wrote: Ron Johnson put forth on 4/14/2010 8:28 AM: On 2010-04-13 22:50, Stan Hoeppner wrote: Hugo Vanwoerkom put forth on 4/13/2010 3:53 PM: [snip] Either way, avoid onboard RealTek ethernet as it's not currently supported well by Debian. One might be able to make it work, but the process requires some serious hoop jumping. -- SNIP -- AFAIK, for those who roll their own kernels from kernel.org source, there's no problem with RTL chips if you compile all blobs into the kernel. For those using stock Debian kernels, RTL chips have been a problem, and may yet be again. Maybe if I ever get .32 or .33 I'll squeal in anger. Until then... ~$ lspci |grep Real 04:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168B PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller (rev 03) [1]+ Doneplay /usr/local/sounds/identification.wav /dev/null 21 Running fine here since 2.6.26 and currently on 2.6.32-4-amd64. Stock kernel images on testing. Wayne -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bc7134a@gmail.com
Re: Realtek ethernet (was Re: recent mobo recommendation)
On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 00:59:50 -0500 Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: bri...@aracnet.com put forth on 4/15/2010 12:08 AM: And .32-trunk is the running kernel, has been for some time, and I've rebooted several times. Did up aptitude upgrade to the .32-trunk kernel or is your .32-trunk kernel what resulted from a fresh install? Also, what architecture is your kernel? Most, if not all, of the commenters in the bug were using amd64 kernels. Intel Atom I have an AMD64 also, but it is an NVIDIA based ethernet. I'm relatively certain it's an upgrade kernel, but I'm not positive. Brian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100415071301.17b13...@windy.deldotd.com
Re: recent mobo recommendation
Ron Johnson wrote: On 2010-04-14 11:12, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: On 2010-04-13 15:53, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Hi, Anybody install a recent motherboard that they are happy with? I am due for an upgrade and there are too many choices. Come on, man... You should know the drill. Specify: o budget o needed features o preferred features budget - any needed features - desktop configuration, at least 2 PCI express slots - ATX form factor preferred features - runs with Debian ATX means you'll get lots of built-in features. I like my Gigabyte GA-MA780G-UD3H mobo with AM2+/AM2 socket. 8GM RAM, 6 SATA, 1 (or 2, I forget) rear eSATA, lots of USB, a front and rear Firewire and decent on-board audio. On-board ATI video with separate video RAM, but I installed a fanless NVIDIA card because the driver situation is *simple*, and it's fast. Too bad it's a NewEgg outofstock item: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128382 Hugo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/hq7nfg$a4...@dough.gmane.org
Re: recent mobo recommendation
Stan Hoeppner wrote: Hugo Vanwoerkom put forth on 4/13/2010 3:53 PM: Hi, Anybody install a recent motherboard that they are happy with? I am due for an upgrade and there are too many choices. It would help if you told us what the primary use of the machine will be. Server or desktop? If desktop, heavy 3D apps? Either way, avoid onboard RealTek ethernet as it's not currently supported well by Debian. One might be able to make it work, but the process requires some serious hoop jumping. That's a real pain. NewEgg has no filter on netcards for mobo's Hugo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/hq7pnr$lc...@dough.gmane.org
Re: recent mobo recommendation
On 2010-04-15 13:55, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: On 2010-04-14 11:12, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: On 2010-04-13 15:53, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Hi, Anybody install a recent motherboard that they are happy with? I am due for an upgrade and there are too many choices. Come on, man... You should know the drill. Specify: o budget o needed features o preferred features budget - any needed features - desktop configuration, at least 2 PCI express slots - ATX form factor preferred features - runs with Debian ATX means you'll get lots of built-in features. I like my Gigabyte GA-MA780G-UD3H mobo with AM2+/AM2 socket. 8GM RAM, 6 SATA, 1 (or 2, I forget) rear eSATA, lots of USB, a front and rear Firewire and decent on-board audio. On-board ATI video with separate video RAM, but I installed a fanless NVIDIA card because the driver situation is *simple*, and it's fast. Too bad it's a NewEgg outofstock item: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128382 Probably superseded by a newer model. Do you need/want: o on-board video? o latest/greatest CPU? o Intel or AMD? o to buy new RAM? -- Dissent is patriotic, remember? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bc7798c@cox.net
Re: recent mobo recommendation
On 2010-04-15 13:55, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: [snip] ATX means you'll get lots of built-in features. I like my Gigabyte GA-MA780G-UD3H mobo with AM2+/AM2 socket. 8GM RAM, 6 SATA, 1 (or 2, I forget) rear eSATA, lots of USB, a front and rear Firewire and decent on-board audio. On-board ATI video with separate video RAM, but I installed a fanless NVIDIA card because the driver situation is *simple*, and it's fast. Too bad it's a NewEgg outofstock item: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128382 This looks like the successor. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128411 -- Dissent is patriotic, remember? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bc77acb.8030...@cox.net
Re: Realtek ethernet (was Re: recent mobo recommendation)
bri...@aracnet.com put forth on 4/15/2010 9:13 AM: On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 00:59:50 -0500 Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: bri...@aracnet.com put forth on 4/15/2010 12:08 AM: And .32-trunk is the running kernel, has been for some time, and I've rebooted several times. Did up aptitude upgrade to the .32-trunk kernel or is your .32-trunk kernel what resulted from a fresh install? Also, what architecture is your kernel? Most, if not all, of the commenters in the bug were using amd64 kernels. Intel Atom 5 of teh 19 Atom CPUs support x86-64. Which kernel are you running? 32bit i3/4/5/686 or AMD64? I'm relatively certain it's an upgrade kernel, but I'm not positive. Could you check your logs? -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bc79b4f.2080...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: recent mobo recommendation
Hugo Vanwoerkom put forth on 4/15/2010 2:34 PM: That's a real pain. NewEgg has no filter on netcards for mobo's Yeah, I know, it sucks. I wasted a lot of time doing research for a previous thread trying to hunt down mobos with Intel or non-Realtek ether chips. It's a slow process. See if you can find a way to ask for that search criteria. I'll do the same. Might have to call customer service. It would be really nice to see that option. BTW, ever tried finding Atom based mobos on Newegg? That's a pain also. They're only listed in the mobo-vga-cpu combo section. Before that they were in the server motherboard section, or at least some were. If you're an Intel guy, look at Intel brand mobos only as most of them have Intel ethernet chips, eg e100/e1000 driver. Some Intel boards do have Realtek ethernet chips so pay attention. On the AMD side, look for motherboards with nVidia chipsets which usually have ethernet build into the MCP southbridge. Sometimes, to get everything you want, you end up buying a PCI/e NIC and disabling the onboard. I know some sysops who do this as a matter of course because they're convinced any on-board free NIC is cheap and thus not reliable. So they go buy an e1000 card, and it's the same damn chip lol. Anyway... -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bc79d57.1040...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: recent mobo recommendation
On 2010-04-15 18:12, Stan Hoeppner wrote: Hugo Vanwoerkom put forth on 4/15/2010 2:34 PM: That's a real pain. NewEgg has no filter on netcards for mobo's Yeah, I know, it sucks. I wasted a lot of time doing research for a previous thread trying to hunt down mobos with Intel or non-Realtek ether chips. It's a slow process. See if you can find a way to ask for that search criteria. I'll do the same. Might have to call customer service. It would be really nice to see that option. BTW, ever tried finding Atom based mobos on Newegg? That's a pain also. They're only listed in the mobo-vga-cpu combo section. Before that they were in the server motherboard section, or at least some were. Are there any Atom mobos that are *not* highly integrated? I think probably not. Cutting through the double-negatives: all the Atoms are in the mobo-vga-cpu combo section because NewEgg only sells Atoms in highly integrated mobos. -- Dissent is patriotic, remember? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bc79fbb.4060...@cox.net
Re: recent mobo recommendation
Ron Johnson put forth on 4/15/2010 6:22 PM: On 2010-04-15 18:12, Stan Hoeppner wrote: Hugo Vanwoerkom put forth on 4/15/2010 2:34 PM: That's a real pain. NewEgg has no filter on netcards for mobo's Yeah, I know, it sucks. I wasted a lot of time doing research for a previous thread trying to hunt down mobos with Intel or non-Realtek ether chips. It's a slow process. See if you can find a way to ask for that search criteria. I'll do the same. Might have to call customer service. It would be really nice to see that option. BTW, ever tried finding Atom based mobos on Newegg? That's a pain also. They're only listed in the mobo-vga-cpu combo section. Before that they were in the server motherboard section, or at least some were. Are there any Atom mobos that are *not* highly integrated? I think probably not. Cutting through the double-negatives: all the Atoms are in the mobo-vga-cpu combo section because NewEgg only sells Atoms in highly integrated mobos. Thanks for re-stating the obvious Ron. There should be an Atom heading under Intel motherboards, or at the least Atom should be listed in either the socket type or processor type drop downs in the advanced search under Intel. Currently Atom is not listed in either location. It should be. If you enter the Intel motherboards section, you cannot get to Atom products. This is just stupid. Atom is an Intel product. Atom based mobos should be listed in the main Intel motherboard section. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bc7a426.40...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: Realtek ethernet (was Re: recent mobo recommendation)
On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 18:03:43 -0500 Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: bri...@aracnet.com put forth on 4/15/2010 9:13 AM: On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 00:59:50 -0500 Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: bri...@aracnet.com put forth on 4/15/2010 12:08 AM: And .32-trunk is the running kernel, has been for some time, and I've rebooted several times. Did up aptitude upgrade to the .32-trunk kernel or is your .32-trunk kernel what resulted from a fresh install? Also, what architecture is your kernel? Most, if not all, of the commenters in the bug were using amd64 kernels. Intel Atom 5 of teh 19 Atom CPUs support x86-64. Which kernel are you running? 32bit i3/4/5/686 or AMD64? Linux bamboo 2.6.32-trunk-686 #1 SMP Sun Jan 10 06:32:16 UTC 2010 i686 GNU/Linux Now that I think about it, I remember downloading various packages with firmware in the name, and further remember that the ethernet firmware did not seem to be among them. I'm relatively certain it's an upgrade kernel, but I'm not positive. Could you check your logs? Sorry, you'll have to be more specific. Here's some dpkg --list output which might help: ii linux-headers-2.6.32 ii linux-image-2.6.32 ii linux-source-2.6.32 Brian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100415204144.7a846...@windy.deldotd.com
Realtek ethernet (was Re: recent mobo recommendation)
On 2010-04-13 22:50, Stan Hoeppner wrote: Hugo Vanwoerkom put forth on 4/13/2010 3:53 PM: [snip] Either way, avoid onboard RealTek ethernet as it's not currently supported well by Debian. One might be able to make it work, but the process requires some serious hoop jumping. Really? RealTek chips are as common as flies on horse poop, and works perfectly for me. $ lspci -vs 03:00.0 03:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168B PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller (rev 02) Subsystem: Giga-byte Technology GA-EP45-DS5 Motherboard Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 28 I/O ports at ce00 [size=256] Memory at fddff000 (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=4K] Memory at fdde (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=64K] [virtual] Expansion ROM at fdd0 [disabled] [size=64K] Capabilities: access denied Kernel driver in use: r8169 -- Dissent is patriotic, remember? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bc5c2f0.7060...@cox.net
Re: Realtek ethernet (was Re: recent mobo recommendation)
On 4/14/2010 9:28 AM, Ron Johnson wrote: On 2010-04-13 22:50, Stan Hoeppner wrote: Hugo Vanwoerkom put forth on 4/13/2010 3:53 PM: [snip] Either way, avoid onboard RealTek ethernet as it's not currently supported well by Debian. One might be able to make it work, but the process requires some serious hoop jumping. Really? RealTek chips are as common as flies on horse poop, and works perfectly for me. $ lspci -vs 03:00.0 03:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168B PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller (rev 02) Subsystem: Giga-byte Technology GA-EP45-DS5 Motherboard Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 28 I/O ports at ce00 [size=256] Memory at fddff000 (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=4K] Memory at fdde (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=64K] [virtual] Expansion ROM at fdd0 [disabled] [size=64K] Capabilities: access denied Kernel driver in use: r8169 Same here. Realtek 100mbit and GigE chips have always worked great regardless of kernel version. The chipsets that have horrible support are the Marvell adapters that use the 'sky2' module. See this thread for details (sky2 module has still not been fixed since its introduction in 8/2006): http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-487018-postdays-0-postorder-asc-start-0.html -- Ryan Manikowski ]] Devision Media Services LLC [[ www.devision.us r...@devision.us | 716.771.2282 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bc5cb02.7080...@devision.us
Re: Realtek ethernet (was Re: recent mobo recommendation)
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 10:02:42 -0400, Ryan Manikowski wrote: On 4/14/2010 9:28 AM, Ron Johnson wrote: Really? RealTek chips are as common as flies on horse poop, and works perfectly for me. (...) Same here. Realtek 100mbit and GigE chips have always worked great regardless of kernel version. The chipsets that have horrible support are the Marvell adapters that use the 'sky2' module. See this thread for details (sky2 module has still not been fixed since its introduction in 8/2006): http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-487018-postdays-0-postorder-asc- start-0.html Mmmm... I manage some lenny systems running a variety of network adapters (mainly Intel -e1000e- , Realtek -r8169- and Marvell -skge-) and have not experienced any problem with them :-? Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.04.14.14.17...@gmail.com
Re: recent mobo recommendation
Ron Johnson wrote: On 2010-04-13 15:53, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Hi, Anybody install a recent motherboard that they are happy with? I am due for an upgrade and there are too many choices. Come on, man... You should know the drill. Specify: o budget o needed features o preferred features budget - any needed features - desktop configuration, at least 2 PCI express slots - ATX form factor preferred features - runs with Debian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/hq4phe$1r...@dough.gmane.org
Re: Realtek ethernet (was Re: recent mobo recommendation)
Le 14/04/2010 15:28, Ron Johnson wrote: On 2010-04-13 22:50, Stan Hoeppner wrote: Hugo Vanwoerkom put forth on 4/13/2010 3:53 PM: [snip] Either way, avoid onboard RealTek ethernet as it's not currently supported well by Debian. One might be able to make it work, but the process requires some serious hoop jumping. Really? RealTek chips are as common as flies on horse poop, and works perfectly for me. $ lspci -vs 03:00.0 03:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8111/8168B PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller (rev 02) Subsystem: Giga-byte Technology GA-EP45-DS5 Motherboard Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 28 I/O ports at ce00 [size=256] Memory at fddff000 (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=4K] Memory at fdde (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=64K] [virtual] Expansion ROM at fdd0 [disabled] [size=64K] Capabilities: access denied Kernel driver in use: r8169 Hi, I have an Asus sabertooth 55i (socket LGA1156) with the same Realtek lan chip (rev03 here), no problem. The motherboard is overpriced due to it's marketing hype regarding military grade components and Ceramix coated heatsinks , but otherwise it's working great, and very cool too with an Intel Core i7. Layout is good for my needs, ample space for large video card without blocking any sata port. Bundle is limited to bare minimum (esata/usb bracket and a few cables). Used for video processing mainly, occasional kernel compilations, virtualbox vm and the occasional game.Works with Squeeze amd64 with stock kernel (minor sound glitches with on-board chip) and currently 2.6.33.2 (100% functional), suspend works too. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bc5f916.80...@googlemail.com
Re: recent mobo recommendation
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 11:12:29 -0500, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: Come on, man... You should know the drill. Specify: o budget o needed features o preferred features budget - any Nice! needed features - desktop configuration, at least 2 PCI express slots - ATX form factor preferred features - runs with Debian Then I can recommend a SuperMicro C2SBX (Intel socket 775), which is the latest board I had to install a Debian Lenny and is working fine. Or you can also look at MSI, Gigabyte, Abit, Intel... or almost any motherboard manufacturer that for sure will fit your lax requirements :-) Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.04.14.17.32...@gmail.com
Re: recent mobo recommendation
On 2010-04-14 11:12, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Ron Johnson wrote: On 2010-04-13 15:53, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Hi, Anybody install a recent motherboard that they are happy with? I am due for an upgrade and there are too many choices. Come on, man... You should know the drill. Specify: o budget o needed features o preferred features budget - any needed features - desktop configuration, at least 2 PCI express slots - ATX form factor preferred features - runs with Debian ATX means you'll get lots of built-in features. I like my Gigabyte GA-MA780G-UD3H mobo with AM2+/AM2 socket. 8GM RAM, 6 SATA, 1 (or 2, I forget) rear eSATA, lots of USB, a front and rear Firewire and decent on-board audio. On-board ATI video with separate video RAM, but I installed a fanless NVIDIA card because the driver situation is *simple*, and it's fast. -- Dissent is patriotic, remember? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bc5fe8a.7070...@cox.net
Re: Realtek ethernet (was Re: recent mobo recommendation)
Ron Johnson put forth on 4/14/2010 8:28 AM: On 2010-04-13 22:50, Stan Hoeppner wrote: Hugo Vanwoerkom put forth on 4/13/2010 3:53 PM: [snip] Either way, avoid onboard RealTek ethernet as it's not currently supported well by Debian. One might be able to make it work, but the process requires some serious hoop jumping. Really? RealTek chips are as common as flies on horse poop, and works perfectly for me. Check the list archives. Not long ago (couple months maybe) Debian released a 2.6.3x.x (not sure if it was Stable or Testing) kernel that omitted the RealTek firmware blob due to non free status of the code, thus bricking ethernet for quite a few users who upgraded to the new kernel via regular aptitude upgrades. Is this situation fixed with newer Debian kernels or are you manually telling the driver where to grab the firmware file on the root filesystem? Was this situation limited to just that one kernel release? At least a couple of people on this list went out and bought non-RealTek PCI NICs to fix the problem instead of reverting to the older kernel. Looking at the big picture leads me to believe RTL chips aren't a good long term solution, _especially_ for Debian users, since Debian is the most anal about free code. This scenario could very well happen again in the future if the Debian kernel team decides some future RealTek firmware isn't free and removes the firmware blob again. Additionally I've seen a number of people state their GigE RTL chips only achieve about 1/3rd of wire speed whereas Intel chips get over 80% of wire speed without jumbo frames. TTBOMK there has never been a free code issue with Intel drivers or firmware. They have a very long term rock solid track record. Thus, I recommend users to stay away from RealTek chips and go with Intel when they can. Yeah, RTL is everywhere because they're cheap as horse dung, but there are plenty of alternatives, if one just looks around a bit. AFAIK, for those who roll their own kernels from kernel.org source, there's no problem with RTL chips if you compile all blobs into the kernel. For those using stock Debian kernels, RTL chips have been a problem, and may yet be again. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bc680eb.9020...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: Realtek ethernet (was Re: recent mobo recommendation)
On 2010-04-14 21:58, Stan Hoeppner wrote: Ron Johnson put forth on 4/14/2010 8:28 AM: On 2010-04-13 22:50, Stan Hoeppner wrote: Hugo Vanwoerkom put forth on 4/13/2010 3:53 PM: [snip] Either way, avoid onboard RealTek ethernet as it's not currently supported well by Debian. One might be able to make it work, but the process requires some serious hoop jumping. Really? RealTek chips are as common as flies on horse poop, and works perfectly for me. Check the list archives. Not long ago (couple months maybe) Debian released a 2.6.3x.x (not sure if it was Stable or Testing) kernel that omitted the RealTek firmware blob due to non free status of the code, thus bricking ethernet for quite a few users who upgraded to the new kernel via regular aptitude upgrades. Is this situation fixed with newer Debian kernels or are you manually telling the driver where to grab the firmware file on the root filesystem? Was this situation limited to just that one kernel release? Nothing I've seen in dmesg has ever led me to think that the r8169 driver in my Sid linux-source-2.6.31 kernel (yes, it's old; .32 and 33 fail to build) loads a blob. At least a couple of people on this list went out and bought non-RealTek PCI NICs to fix the problem instead of reverting to the older kernel. I sort of remember that. [snip] Additionally I've seen a number of people state their GigE RTL chips only achieve about 1/3rd of wire speed whereas Intel chips get over 80% of wire speed without jumbo frames. TTBOMK there has never been a free code issue with Intel drivers or firmware. They have a very long term rock solid track record. I'm not surprised. Since I'm only connected to a small 100Mbps LAN which then connects to a 12Mbps cable modem, it doesn't really affect me. Thus, I recommend users to stay away from RealTek chips and go with Intel when they can. Yeah, RTL is everywhere because they're cheap as horse dung, but there are plenty of alternatives, if one just looks around a bit. AFAIK, for those who roll their own kernels from kernel.org source, there's no problem with RTL chips if you compile all blobs into the kernel. For those using stock Debian kernels, RTL chips have been a problem, and may yet be again. Maybe if I ever get .32 or .33 I'll squeal in anger. Until then... -- Dissent is patriotic, remember? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bc68489.5010...@cox.net
Re: Realtek ethernet (was Re: recent mobo recommendation)
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 22:14:17 -0500 Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: On 2010-04-14 21:58, Stan Hoeppner wrote: Ron Johnson put forth on 4/14/2010 8:28 AM: On 2010-04-13 22:50, Stan Hoeppner wrote: Hugo Vanwoerkom put forth on 4/13/2010 3:53 PM: [snip] Either way, avoid onboard RealTek ethernet as it's not currently supported well by Debian. One might be able to make it work, but the process requires some serious hoop jumping. Really? RealTek chips are as common as flies on horse poop, and works perfectly for me. Check the list archives. Not long ago (couple months maybe) Debian released a 2.6.3x.x (not sure if it was Stable or Testing) kernel that omitted the RealTek firmware blob due to non free status of the code, thus bricking ethernet for quite a few users who upgraded to the new kernel via regular aptitude upgrades. Is this situation fixed with newer Debian kernels or are you manually telling the driver where to grab the firmware file on the root filesystem? Was this situation limited to just that one kernel release? running 2.6.32-trunk on an Atom/Intel board and I'm not seeing any problems. RTL8111/8168B is what's listed via lspci I'm getting 1GB performance I do see the firmware messages: r8169 requesting rtl8169-1.fw so I'm not sure why it doesn't seem to be a problem. There is a disturbing trend on the part of HW manufacturers to have these customize firmware blobs, and that's not good. Brian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100414203534.3b42f...@windy.deldotd.com
Re: Realtek ethernet (was Re: recent mobo recommendation)
On 2010-04-14 22:35, bri...@aracnet.com wrote: [snip] r8169 requesting rtl8169-1.fw What package is that in? -- Dissent is patriotic, remember? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bc691b8.7090...@cox.net
Re: Realtek ethernet (was Re: recent mobo recommendation)
Ron Johnson put forth on 4/14/2010 10:14 PM: Nothing I've seen in dmesg has ever led me to think that the r8169 driver in my Sid linux-source-2.6.31 kernel (yes, it's old; .32 and 33 fail to build) loads a blob. Almost all NICs load firmware blobs. It's in dmesg somewhere. When the firmware doesn't load you get something like this in dmesg: eth1: RTL8168d/8111d at 0xc9c4e000,xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx, XID 083000c0 IRQ 32 eth1: unable to apply firmware patch That's a paste from one of the OPs here who was bitten by the 2.6.32-trunk upgrade which IIRC is the one that ripped out the RTL firmware blob. I can't find via Google a dmesg snippet of a successful RTL firmware load. Here's what it looks like for Intel 8255X using the e100 driver, with the firmware blobs all compiled into the kernel: e100 :00:0d.0: firmware: using built-in firmware e100/d101m_ucode.bin built-in signifies that the firmware blob has been included in the kernel at compile time. I do this to avoid issues such as this RTL problem. It only adds a couple hundred K to the kernel image. And I use the vanilla kernel.org sources to avoid any Debian non-free issues. Just about every NIC on the planet uses a firmware blob. There are, IIRC, 3 ways to load the device firmware into the Linux kernel. This applies to all devices that require soft firmware, not just NICs: 1. Compile all device firmware blobs into the kernel 2. Compile the individual blob into the driver, use initrd 3. Put firmware file in root filesystem, tell kernel the path #3 won't work with drivers that are needed during the boot process such as block device drivers. Those require method 1 or 2. NICs should be able to use 1-3. There are 3 different dmesg statements and 3 different errors depending on which method 1-3 above that you're using. At least a couple of people on this list went out and bought non-RealTek PCI NICs to fix the problem instead of reverting to the older kernel. I sort of remember that. Yeah, I just pulled the mails. One upgraded to 2.6.32-trunk on his firewall, bricking it until he disabled the onboard RTL and installed an Intel e100 IIRC. They thought it was a udev issue til I noticed the firmware load failure message referenced up above in this email. The other had an RTL wireless that failed for the same reason. I can't recall how they fixed that one. IIRC the OP didn't swap hardware to achieve the fix, so they did something with the kernel/driver/firmware. I'm not surprised. Since I'm only connected to a small 100Mbps LAN which then connects to a 12Mbps cable modem, it doesn't really affect me. Do some FTP or SCP tests back and forth to another LAN machine and see what transfers rates you get out of that RTL chip. I bet you get 1/3rd wire speed at best, about 30MB/s, if even that. The machines themselves need to be modern to saturate the link--no slow CPUs or disks. Any ~2GHz CPU with 512MB RAM and a decent 7.2K RPM SATA disk should be able to push/pull 50MB/s across the wire. For that matter, eliminate the disk by creating a 200MB RAM disk on each machine. Create a test file with dd and FTP/SCP it back and forth between the RAM disks. If your RTL chip can peak the wire it'll be a 2-3 second transfer if your network chips and Linux TCP stacks are up to the task. Maybe if I ever get .32 or .33 I'll squeal in anger. Until then... It's looking like the RTL firmware blob issue may have been limited to the trunk kernel. You may get lucky. Then again, if you roll your own and put the firmware blobs in the kernel itself as I do, you shouldn't have a problem. That is, if the Debian kernel source doesn't have the blob ripped out for being non-free. You mentioned you had problems building 2.6.32 and .33 kernel source. Do you use the Debian kernel source or kernel.org source? I've been using the kernel.org source for quite some time and have never had any real problems with it (knocks on wood). I had a build problem with .33 a while back but that turned out to be due to a slight bit too much overclock on my machine in this warmer weather. ;) -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bc6960e.7020...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: Realtek ethernet (was Re: recent mobo recommendation)
bri...@aracnet.com put forth on 4/14/2010 10:35 PM: running 2.6.32-trunk on an Atom/Intel board and I'm not seeing any problems. Which 2.6.32? Apparently this bug was fixed in 2.6.32-3. I'm not sure if this firmware bug affected all RTL chips or even all RTL 8168/9 chips. Count yourself lucky. Here's the bug report: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=561309 RTL8111/8168B is what's listed via lspci I'm getting 1GB performance That's impossible. GigE wire speed is 1Gb/s. Please learn the difference between [B]yte and [b]it quantities. And, I guarantee you are not getting 1Gb/s transfers between hosts with RTL chips. There's a big difference between link speed and data transmission speed/throughput. I've seen guys with serious hardware horsepower not be able to get even close to 500Mb/s with RTL chips. On the same machines, using an Intel GigE interface, they were getting over 900Mb/s. Intel ethernet chips cost about 5 times what RTL chips do. Performance is one of the reasons. I do see the firmware messages: r8169 requesting rtl8169-1.fw so I'm not sure why it doesn't seem to be a problem. You're probably running a kernel that has the patch, or a chip/driver combo that doesn't barf when the firmware can't be loaded because neither need that firmware. There is a disturbing trend on the part of HW manufacturers to have these customize firmware blobs, and that's not good. That's not the problem. Firmware blobs are very necessary. They allow manufacturers to fix flaws in hardware devices or introduce enhancements after they've already shipped the products. Soft firmware blobs are a good thing. There's nothing disturbing about it, but for your lack of understanding of the subject. No offense intended, just stating facts. The problem is that Realtek apparently didn't release this particular firmware code under an appropriate free software license such as the GPL. This bug isn't technical in nature. The fix is, but the cause isn't. The cause is the fact that Realtek didn't make the firmware source free. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bc69d69.9000...@hardwarefreak.com
Re: Realtek ethernet (was Re: recent mobo recommendation)
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 23:10:32 -0500 Ron Johnson ron.l.john...@cox.net wrote: On 2010-04-14 22:35, bri...@aracnet.com wrote: [snip] r8169 requesting rtl8169-1.fw What package is that in? I don't know. Did I mention that it fails to load, i.e. probably isn't there ? I do have non-free in sources.list, but I'm pretty sure the firmware blob is not in my installation. And .32-trunk is the running kernel, has been for some time, and I've rebooted several times. Brian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100414220828.0fb9f...@windy.deldotd.com
Re: Realtek ethernet (was Re: recent mobo recommendation)
On 2010-04-14 23:29, Stan Hoeppner wrote: [snip] You mentioned you had problems building 2.6.32 and .33 kernel source. Do you use the Debian kernel source or kernel.org source? I've been using the kernel.org source for quite some time and have never had any real problems with it (knocks on wood). I had a build problem with .33 a while back but that turned out to be due to a slight bit too much overclock on my machine in this warmer weather. ;) Debian source. It's the first kernel build problem I'm had since the 2.4 days, and I've been using 2.6 since .0. -- Dissent is patriotic, remember? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bc6a4bf.50...@cox.net
Re: Realtek ethernet (was Re: recent mobo recommendation)
Ron Johnson put forth on 4/14/2010 11:10 PM: On 2010-04-14 22:35, bri...@aracnet.com wrote: [snip] r8169 requesting rtl8169-1.fw What package is that in? At this point in time it supposedly should be found in firmware-linux-nonfree. However, I can't find it there. In fact, I can't find any sign of Realtek firmware anywhere in firmware-linux-* or in a standalone firmware package with anything resembling Realtek in the package name or contents. Very strange. Anyone else able to find any Realtek firmware in any Debian packages? At this point it would seem the Realtek firmware(s) have vanished. I wonder if none of the Realtek chips actually need soft firmware blobs. I guess not since Debian has removed all traces of them from the packages. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bc6a5b6.1020...@hardwarefreak.com
recent mobo recommendation
Hi, Anybody install a recent motherboard that they are happy with? I am due for an upgrade and there are too many choices. Hugo -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/hq2ljp$8o...@dough.gmane.org
Re: recent mobo recommendation
On 2010-04-13 15:53, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Hi, Anybody install a recent motherboard that they are happy with? I am due for an upgrade and there are too many choices. Come on, man... You should know the drill. Specify: o budget o needed features o preferred features -- Dissent is patriotic, remember? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bc4e964.3070...@cox.net
Re: recent mobo recommendation
Hugo Vanwoerkom put forth on 4/13/2010 3:53 PM: Hi, Anybody install a recent motherboard that they are happy with? I am due for an upgrade and there are too many choices. It would help if you told us what the primary use of the machine will be. Server or desktop? If desktop, heavy 3D apps? Either way, avoid onboard RealTek ethernet as it's not currently supported well by Debian. One might be able to make it work, but the process requires some serious hoop jumping. -- Stan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4bc53b68.90...@hardwarefreak.com
