Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Felix Miata]

Felix Miata composed on 2017-10-17 17:40 (UTC-0400):

> Brian composed on 2017-10-17 20:54 (UTC+0100):

>> On Tue 17 Oct 2017 at 15:30:36 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

>>> Startx continues to work more or less as always in Mageia, just as in 
>>> Debian,
>>> though not necessarily perfectly:
>>> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15662

>> Not "more or less" in Debian". Just rock solid,

> You might be right, but you might not be. I don't suppose you looked at that
> bug, because the bug is actually upstream, about gfxchips installed in PCs on
> which I have no version of Debian installed to confirm or deny broader impact
> than on just Mageia and Fedora. Without any stronger reason to add Debian, 
> both
> the machines and the gfxchips are too old for me to bother trying.

Upstream bug just updated to include 9.2:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90572
-- 
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Felix Miata]

David Wright composed on 2017-10-21 11:34 (UTC-0500):

> On Fri 20 Oct 2017 at 04:42:53 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote:

>> It's not resolutions per se, but resolution increases have considerable 
>> tendency
>> to carry higher pixel density, notwithstanding the considerable average 
>> density
>> differences between laptop displays and desktop displays. The problem comes 
>> from
>> several sources:

> … which have to do with how X is configured, not whether you use a DE.
> Your point about the size of the "default" size of xterm (where "default"
> depends where you're coming from) is easily changed in any WM 

A point I was trying to make was that "easily" it is not, unless your eyes are
as good as, and your hardware matches that of, those who selected the defaults
provided by the applicable software. Shrinking the size can be many orders of
magnitude easier than bringing up to a legible size, because making a change
depends on discovering and utilizing the process of change being legible in the
first place.
-- 
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[David Wright]

On Fri 20 Oct 2017 at 04:42:53 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote:
> David Wright composed on 2017-10-19 17:00 (UTC-0500):
> 
> > On Wed 18 Oct 2017 at 19:22:53 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote:
> 
> >> Finding a wanted app to run from a classified tree list of 30 or 40 or 50 
> >> or
> >> more applications is easier for most people than remembering the name and 
> >> any
> >> required startup options to type, both for those uncommonly used, and even 
> >> for
> >> the commonly used ones if there are more than a scant few such. 2 or 3 or 4
> >> clicks to start one up is typically easier than typing 4, 5, 6, 7 or more
> >> characters, or searching command history more than a few entries back.
> 
> > Do you need a DE to do that? What's the difference between that and
> > the Debian menus that I occasionally use? 
> 
> Don't I?

No.

> One of the few positive paradigms to come out of Redmond was the button
> at the lower left corner of the screen to open a tree-structured list of
> applications and utilities available to run. I've yet to see a materially 
> better
> one that that derived from it for KDE2 or 3 that added a search box.

Which is what the Debian menu gives you. If you want the tree to look like
the windows® one, just initiate it (for me it's a left click in the root
window, ie outside any application's window) near the lower left corner.

> >> It's a
> >> nice bonus in some DEs that automatically remember and reopen apps, their
> >> content states, and their window sizes and positions.
> 
> > That's more debatable. Some people like that, some like me prefer
> > a particular setup whenever I start X, some use Place with Mouseclick,
> > etc. But there appear to be separate packages to handle this, like
> > lxsession and devilspie. 
> 
> I need all the help I can get to pickup where I left off when interrupted and
> forced to end the session before the WIP can be completed.
> 
> >> For some, the microscopic default text size and fractional default 
> >> proportion of
> >> screen area (80x25, using as little as 1/16 or less of total screen space) 
> >> of
> >> xterm windows impedes their use for anything.
> 
> > I've seen reports of fonts getting tinier as resolutions increase,
> > and not just on linux. I don't know how hard or easy it is to provide
> > sensible defaults for every application on every system, and in any
> > case circumstances vary. People with poor sight want large characters,
> > others want more characters on the screen. In the specific case of
> > xterm, I want and have both, and different fonts too, just by setting
> > different commandline options and Xresources. 
> 
> It's not resolutions per se, but resolution increases have considerable 
> tendency
> to carry higher pixel density, notwithstanding the considerable average 
> density
> differences between laptop displays and desktop displays. The problem comes 
> from
> several sources:

… which have to do with how X is configured, not whether you use a DE.
Your point about the size of the "default" size of xterm (where "default"
depends where you're coming from) is easily changed in any WM, and the
ability to correct or circumvent it doesn't depend on running a DE.

In the earlier thread I alluded to, there was no need (with
installation of a couple of packages and a font change) for
the OP even to bother with running X to fix their original
problem.

Cheers,
David.

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Felix Miata]

David Wright composed on 2017-10-19 17:00 (UTC-0500):

> On Wed 18 Oct 2017 at 19:22:53 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote:

>> Finding a wanted app to run from a classified tree list of 30 or 40 or 50 or
>> more applications is easier for most people than remembering the name and any
>> required startup options to type, both for those uncommonly used, and even 
>> for
>> the commonly used ones if there are more than a scant few such. 2 or 3 or 4
>> clicks to start one up is typically easier than typing 4, 5, 6, 7 or more
>> characters, or searching command history more than a few entries back.

> Do you need a DE to do that? What's the difference between that and
> the Debian menus that I occasionally use? 

Don't I? One of the few positive paradigms to come out of Redmond was the button
at the lower left corner of the screen to open a tree-structured list of
applications and utilities available to run. I've yet to see a materially better
one that that derived from it for KDE2 or 3 that added a search box.

>> It's a
>> nice bonus in some DEs that automatically remember and reopen apps, their
>> content states, and their window sizes and positions.

> That's more debatable. Some people like that, some like me prefer
> a particular setup whenever I start X, some use Place with Mouseclick,
> etc. But there appear to be separate packages to handle this, like
> lxsession and devilspie. 

I need all the help I can get to pickup where I left off when interrupted and
forced to end the session before the WIP can be completed.

>> For some, the microscopic default text size and fractional default 
>> proportion of
>> screen area (80x25, using as little as 1/16 or less of total screen space) of
>> xterm windows impedes their use for anything.

> I've seen reports of fonts getting tinier as resolutions increase,
> and not just on linux. I don't know how hard or easy it is to provide
> sensible defaults for every application on every system, and in any
> case circumstances vary. People with poor sight want large characters,
> others want more characters on the screen. In the specific case of
> xterm, I want and have both, and different fonts too, just by setting
> different commandline options and Xresources. 

It's not resolutions per se, but resolution increases have considerable tendency
to carry higher pixel density, notwithstanding the considerable average density
differences between laptop displays and desktop displays. The problem comes from
several sources:

1-Inconsistency from developers, some who size in pixels, and some who size in
points. Points are resolution dependent, so are in principle unaffected by
density. Pixels are entirely independent, so the higher the density, the smaller
the container into which a fixed number of pixels fit.

2-As you imply, some want a bigger screen to provide for more stuff to fit,
while others want the same stuff to simply be bigger, and yet others want a
mixture of both.

3-Overall, computer developers are a youthful bunch, so their eyesight is better
than average, while their collective wisdom has a lot of growing yet to do. Try
to imagine anyone getting into computer development whose eyesight is materially
poorer than average. That can be lot of pain to suffer day-in, day-out working
on screens designed for use by people with better vision. There simply isn't
much of it happening.

4-Hardware manufacturers are caught in the middle. They don't stay in business
without making a profit. They know how to make higher quality product, but
they're stifled by returns from those who after getting the product home
determine their bigger screen makes things tinier and harder to use. So they
limit the selection of high quality product, producing mostly native resolutions
in physical sizes that produce densities near the arbitrary software standard of
96 DPI. 1366x768 in this day and age is hard to imagine, given that 1024x768
dates back over three decades, and 1080p dates back more than two decades. Yet,
this is the resolution of both a typical 32" TV screen and a laptop of 15".
Large PC screens ought to have an *average* density of at least 200 DPI by now,
and have the software automatically doing the computations necessary to allow
people to enjoy better quality and overall experience.

5-Much of development incorporates overwhelming perfectionism, a need to have
results look "just right", not necessarily with any wisdom of the perspective of
those with different eyes. Over-control is typical, limiting or even eliminating
the ability to accommodate differing capabilities and/or environments. Computers
are good at calculating, but developers routinely limit that utility. One of the
most blatant of such constraints can be seen in Xorg:

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41115
Please add option to avoid forcing of 96dpi

an offshoot from:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23705
xserver forces 96 DPI on randr-1.2-capable drivers, overriding correct 
autodetection

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[David Wright]

On Wed 18 Oct 2017 at 19:22:53 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote:
> Ionel Mugurel Ciobîcă composed on 2017-10-18 20:47 (UTC+0200):
> 
> > I never understood the need for desktop managers. I use Debian since
> > hamm and Linux/Unix since 1995. My take is that desktop managers are
> > for people more used to microsoft OS'. Why do I need to click on
> > something when the xterm I type in can call any program I need?... 
> 
> Finding a wanted app to run from a classified tree list of 30 or 40 or 50 or
> more applications is easier for most people than remembering the name and any
> required startup options to type, both for those uncommonly used, and even for
> the commonly used ones if there are more than a scant few such. 2 or 3 or 4
> clicks to start one up is typically easier than typing 4, 5, 6, 7 or more
> characters, or searching command history more than a few entries back.

Do you need a DE to do that? What's the difference between that and
the Debian menus that I occasionally use?

> It's a
> nice bonus in some DEs that automatically remember and reopen apps, their
> content states, and their window sizes and positions.

That's more debatable. Some people like that, some like me prefer
a particular setup whenever I start X, some use Place with Mouseclick,
etc. But there appear to be separate packages to handle this, like
lxsession and devilspie.

> For some, the microscopic default text size and fractional default proportion 
> of
> screen area (80x25, using as little as 1/16 or less of total screen space) of
> xterm windows impedes their use for anything.

I've seen reports of fonts getting tinier as resolutions increase,
and not just on linux. I don't know how hard or easy it is to provide
sensible defaults for every application on every system, and in any
case circumstances vary. People with poor sight want large characters,
others want more characters on the screen. In the specific case of
xterm, I want and have both, and different fonts too, just by setting
different commandline options and Xresources. I can change them on
the fly too, as I can also for VCs. I don't degrade the resolution
to make them bigger (as suggested earlier in the month). It's mainly
just a matter at looking at configurations.

Cheers,
David.

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 07:22:53PM -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
> Ionel Mugurel Ciobîcă composed on 2017-10-18 20:47 (UTC+0200):
> 
> > I never understood the need for desktop managers. I use Debian since
> > hamm and Linux/Unix since 1995. My take is that desktop managers are
> > for people more used to microsoft OS'. Why do I need to click on
> > something when the xterm I type in can call any program I need?... 
> 
> Finding a wanted app to run from a classified tree list of 30 or 40 or 50 or
> more applications is easier for most people than remembering the name and any
> required startup options to type, both for those uncommonly used, and even for
> the commonly used ones if there are more than a scant few such.

All generalizations suck.

My experience is that there's some tension between "easy to learn for a
newcomer" and "ergonomic for an experienced user". And my hunch is that,
in the last decennium, the "newcomer" part has been overemphasized to
a paradoxical level, where even the newcomers aren't treated very well
(an over-padded desktop environment which behaves erratically because
their creators don't master its exploding complexity[1] *is*
user-unfriendly, after all).

I think we should strive for a continuum which welcomes newcomers but
offers them a path towards experienced users they may follow if they
wish. Baroque complexity and arbitrary barriers (here users, there
sysadmins, yonder app programmers and far out, system programmers)
don't help.

The worst part is that nowadays there are strong financial incentives
in keeping users dumb. Watch the silos of Apple, Microsoft, Google,
Facebook et al. to see what I mean.

Cheers

[1] And no, I don't think Gnome's or KDE's creators are idiots, on
   the contrary. But I definitely believe they've fallen to one of
   the programmers "virtues" (Larry Wall): hubris.

- -- tomás
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Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Felix Miata]

Ionel Mugurel Ciobîcă composed on 2017-10-18 20:47 (UTC+0200):

> I never understood the need for desktop managers. I use Debian since
> hamm and Linux/Unix since 1995. My take is that desktop managers are
> for people more used to microsoft OS'. Why do I need to click on
> something when the xterm I type in can call any program I need?... 

Finding a wanted app to run from a classified tree list of 30 or 40 or 50 or
more applications is easier for most people than remembering the name and any
required startup options to type, both for those uncommonly used, and even for
the commonly used ones if there are more than a scant few such. 2 or 3 or 4
clicks to start one up is typically easier than typing 4, 5, 6, 7 or more
characters, or searching command history more than a few entries back. It's a
nice bonus in some DEs that automatically remember and reopen apps, their
content states, and their window sizes and positions.

For some, the microscopic default text size and fractional default proportion of
screen area (80x25, using as little as 1/16 or less of total screen space) of
xterm windows impedes their use for anything.
-- 
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Jimmy Johnson]

On 10/17/2017 11:42 AM, Brian wrote:

On Tue 17 Oct 2017 at 13:56:37 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:


On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 06:42:04PM +0100, Brian wrote:

On Tue 17 Oct 2017 at 11:38:40 -0500, David Wright wrote:

On Tue 17 Oct 2017 at 19:32:11 (+0500), Alexan:der V. Makartsev wrote:

Deprecated doesn't mean it doesn't exist or work anymore at all, it
means it isn't supported anymore and should not be used.
Look it up, it was deprecated for quite some time.



  https://forums.mageia.org/en/viewtopic.php?f=8=8737


So it's deprecated in Mageia GNU/Linux?  OK.  If I were a Mageia user (or
had ever heard of it before today) that might carry some weight with me.

Just curious, what are Mageia users expected to use instead of startx if
they want to start a traditional X session from a console?  Or is that
no longer a supported configuration at all?  (By traditional, I mean
a ~/.xsession or ~/.xinitrc file that contains "exec twm" or whatever
window manager you prefer.)

Did they simply throw every window manager under the bus and say "Nope,
sorry, you gotta run a desktop environment now"?


That is possible, but I'm not going to invest the time in finding out.
The purpose of my post was to point out Alexan:der V. Makartsev's use
of a post from elsewhere without acknowledgement and indicate Debian's
attitude towards startx (without going into detail).

I use startx. My users get xdm because they have poor memories for the
names of commands and like pretty pictures.


I use startx a lot because I install a lot of systems from a base 
install and after installing drivers, firmware and desktop I can startx 
and do my desktop setup before rebooting or logging out.  I'm sure there 
are other ways like starting sddm or start plasma or? But I know and use 
startx.

--
Jimmy Johnson

Debian Buster - KDE Plasma 5.10.5 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda7
Registered Linux User #380263

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Ionel Mugurel Ciobîcă]

> 
> [ It might be clearer to write "Desktop Environment" (or DE) instead
> of "desktop manager" because of the latter's having the same initials
> as Display Manager (or DM). ]

You are right.

> That said, what are the advantages of running a DM in your case,
> compared with using startx? One big disadvantage has already been
> mentioned (that Linux Consoles rely on particular drivers far less
> than X does).
> 

I use more than one X session. startx would work just as good but then
I will not know how to commute between sessions. The Ctrl-Alt-Fx or
Shift-Fx would not work since startx starts the X on a higher
terminal... If I press Ctrl-Alt-F1 I do not have a way to return to X.
I have to kill the X and type startx again. I never studied startx
carefully, I just rely on xdm that I fully configured. 

Ionel

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[David Wright]

On Wed 18 Oct 2017 at 20:47:08 (+0200), Ionel Mugurel Ciobîcă wrote:
> On 18-10-2017, at 22h 17'14", Richard Hector wrote about "Re: removing of 
> sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5"
> > > 
> > > Did they simply throw every window manager under the bus and say "Nope,
> > > sorry, you gotta run a desktop environment now"?
> > 
> > Now I'm curious - assuming Mageia has deprecated startx, how does that
> > impact using a plain window manager? It's perfectly possible to run twm
> > or whatever when logging in to a display manager, no? I'm sure I used to
> > do that with xdm and icewm.
> > 
> 
> I never ran an desktop manager, nor I used startx. I always used a
> dm (xdm, kdm, etc.) and fvwm. In my ~/.xsession file the last line
> is "fvwm2" (no quotes). Before that I set the background, set the
> keyboard (with xmodmap), start the ssh agent, start rclock, etc.
> 
> I think kdm has an option to overlook ~/.xsession and start another
> wm. Set it to default, which means "read the config files".
> 
> I never understood the need for desktop managers. I use Debian since
> hamm and Linux/Unix since 1995. My take is that desktop managers are
> for people more used to microsoft OS'. Why do I need to click on
> something when the xterm I type in can call any program I need?...

[ It might be clearer to write "Desktop Environment" (or DE) instead
of "desktop manager" because of the latter's having the same initials
as Display Manager (or DM). ]

That said, what are the advantages of running a DM in your case,
compared with using startx? One big disadvantage has already been
mentioned (that Linux Consoles rely on particular drivers far less
than X does).

Cheers,
David.

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Ionel Mugurel Ciobîcă]

On 18-10-2017, at 22h 17'14", Richard Hector wrote about "Re: removing of sddm 
(debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5"
> > 
> > Did they simply throw every window manager under the bus and say "Nope,
> > sorry, you gotta run a desktop environment now"?
> 
> Now I'm curious - assuming Mageia has deprecated startx, how does that
> impact using a plain window manager? It's perfectly possible to run twm
> or whatever when logging in to a display manager, no? I'm sure I used to
> do that with xdm and icewm.
> 

I never ran an desktop manager, nor I used startx. I always used a
dm (xdm, kdm, etc.) and fvwm. In my ~/.xsession file the last line
is "fvwm2" (no quotes). Before that I set the background, set the
keyboard (with xmodmap), start the ssh agent, start rclock, etc.

I think kdm has an option to overlook ~/.xsession and start another
wm. Set it to default, which means "read the config files".

I never understood the need for desktop managers. I use Debian since
hamm and Linux/Unix since 1995. My take is that desktop managers are
for people more used to microsoft OS'. Why do I need to click on
something when the xterm I type in can call any program I need?...

Ionel

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Richard Hector]

On 18/10/17 06:56, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 06:42:04PM +0100, Brian wrote:
>> On Tue 17 Oct 2017 at 11:38:40 -0500, David Wright wrote:
>>> On Tue 17 Oct 2017 at 19:32:11 (+0500), Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
 Deprecated doesn't mean it doesn't exist or work anymore at all, it
 means it isn't supported anymore and should not be used.
 Look it up, it was deprecated for quite some time.
> 
>>  https://forums.mageia.org/en/viewtopic.php?f=8=8737 
> 
> So it's deprecated in Mageia GNU/Linux?  OK.  If I were a Mageia user (or
> had ever heard of it before today) that might carry some weight with me.
> 
> Just curious, what are Mageia users expected to use instead of startx if
> they want to start a traditional X session from a console?  Or is that
> no longer a supported configuration at all?  (By traditional, I mean
> a ~/.xsession or ~/.xinitrc file that contains "exec twm" or whatever
> window manager you prefer.)
> 
> Did they simply throw every window manager under the bus and say "Nope,
> sorry, you gotta run a desktop environment now"?

Now I'm curious - assuming Mageia has deprecated startx, how does that
impact using a plain window manager? It's perfectly possible to run twm
or whatever when logging in to a display manager, no? I'm sure I used to
do that with xdm and icewm.

Richard



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Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Felix Miata]

Brian composed on 2017-10-17 20:54 (UTC+0100):

> On Tue 17 Oct 2017 at 15:30:36 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

>> Mageia is among those installed on most of my multiboot PCs.

>> Mageia's contributor base is among the more limited among top 20 distros. It
>> provides limited deviation from upstream. Thus, if upstream says something is
>> deprecated, Mageia either claims it's deprecated, or is silent on the 
>> subject.

>> Startx continues to work more or less as always in Mageia, just as in Debian,
>> though not necessarily perfectly:
>> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15662

> Not "more or less" in Debian". Just rock solid,
You might be right, but you might not be. I don't suppose you looked at that
bug, because the bug is actually upstream, about gfxchips installed in PCs on
which I have no version of Debian installed to confirm or deny broader impact
than on just Mageia and Fedora. Without any stronger reason to add Debian, both
the machines and the gfxchips are too old for me to bother trying.
-- 
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Stephane L]

Thank you very much Alexander for your help,because I had switched to debian 8 
again for three months because I didn't know how to boot in console mode debian 
9.so I have just installed again debian 9 and with  it boots in multi user mode(console) so I am happy :-)my 
problem is solved...
best regards
Stéphane 

Le Mardi 17 octobre 2017 21h07, Alexander V. Makartsev  
a écrit :
 

  Stephane asked for a help and got it. I also given him the best advice based 
on my experience with "startx" shell script.
 "$ sudo systemctl start display-manager.service" is most fail-safe command to 
start desktop environment from console session on any systemd-adopted distro.
 
 Here is some example disadvantages of using "startx":
 * "startx" often requires user to go extra mile and configure or keep track of 
changes in ~/.xinitrc ~/.xsessionrc scripts.
 * If you use Xfce and will start it by "startx" you will pass on display 
manager and greeter, and if you manually lock your session at some point with 
xflock4 you will get black screen without any way of unlocking it other than 
logging into another tty and doing it from console. This is understandable, 
because by using "startx" with Xfce you passed on session and seat management.
 * Some users could fire "sudo startx" at some point and give themselves a good 
chance to ruin their system.
 You can use whatever you want, as I already said it doesn't mean "startx" 
doesn't exist or work anymore, and you have to understand there is many ways to 
do something in Linux, but just any way doesn't always means it is the right 
way. To all respectable people, go ahead and grab pitchforks and torches there 
is somebody with different\wrong opinion on The Internets.
  
  
 On 17.10.2017 19:39, Greg Wooledge wrote:
  
 On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 07:32:11PM +0500, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
 
 Deprecated doesn't mean it doesn't exist or work anymore at all, it
means it isn't supported anymore and should not be used.
Look it up, it [startx] was deprecated for quite some time.
 
 Quoting from
https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html

==
* Only the gdm3 display manager supports running X as a non-privileged
  user in stretch. Other display managers will always run X as
  root. Alternatively, you can also start X manually as a non-root user
  on a virtual terminal via startx.

When run as a regular user, the Xorg log will be available from
~/.local/share/xorg/.
==

Looks supported to me.
 
 
 -- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄ 
 

   

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Brian]

On Tue 17 Oct 2017 at 15:30:36 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

> Mageia is among those installed on most of my multiboot PCs.
> 
> Mageia's contributor base is among the more limited among top 20 distros. It
> provides limited deviation from upstream. Thus, if upstream says something is
> deprecated, Mageia either claims it's deprecated, or is silent on the subject.
> 
> Startx continues to work more or less as always in Mageia, just as in Debian,
> though not necessarily perfectly:
> https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15662

Not "more or less" in Debian". Just rock solid,

> Since KDM has been removed from both Mageia and Stretch, killing KDM features
> not supported by GDM, LightDM or SDDM, I more often start X sessions in those
> installations using startx than otherwise (which usually means TDM).
> 
> One of my use cases for startx is need for simultaneously run X sessions
> *initialized* with unique and/or arbitrary configurations, e.g.:
> 
>   1920x1200@120DPI on :0 (default, via login greeter)
>   1440x900@108DPI on :1 (non-default, via vtty3 login)
>   1920x1200@132DPI on :2 with panning (virtual desktop) 1920x2400
> 
> If such is supported entirely from running Xorg, I have yet to find how. Such
> settings from within any running DE don't count, due to key requirements
> "initialized" and "arbitrary" that obviate starting a session, configuring via
> GUI, then restarting session with the just applied (user-specific) 
> modifications.

Am I on the wrong mailing list?

-- 
Brian.

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Felix Miata]

David Wright composed on 2017-10-17 13:36 (UTC-0500):

> On Tue 17 Oct 2017 at 13:56:37 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote:

>> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 06:42:04PM +0100, Brian wrote:

>> > On Tue 17 Oct 2017 at 11:38:40 -0500, David Wright wrote:

>> > > On Tue 17 Oct 2017 at 19:32:11 (+0500), Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:

>> > > > Deprecated doesn't mean it doesn't exist or work anymore at all, it
>> > > > means it isn't supported anymore and should not be used.
>> > > > Look it up, it was deprecated for quite some time.

>> >  https://forums.mageia.org/en/viewtopic.php?f=8=8737 

>> So it's deprecated in Mageia GNU/Linux?  OK.  If I were a Mageia user (or
>> had ever heard of it before today) that might carry some weight with me.

>> Just curious, what are Mageia users expected to use instead of startx if
>> they want to start a traditional X session from a console?  Or is that
>> no longer a supported configuration at all?  (By traditional, I mean
>> a ~/.xsession or ~/.xinitrc file that contains "exec twm" or whatever
>> window manager you prefer.)

> I see no evidence from a quick look at their website and the wiki
> that they support (or ever supported) X without a DE. I may be wrong;
> it's difficult to prove a negative. I'd be interested in a reference
> to a counter-example.

>> Did they simply throw every window manager under the bus and say "Nope,
>> sorry, you gotta run a desktop environment now"?

> Did they ever support WMs? If not, then they wouldn't have any reason
> to get rid of them, and what would they have used startx for. Why
> would they have any reason to deprecate it rather than just ignore it? 

Mageia is among those installed on most of my multiboot PCs.

Mageia's contributor base is among the more limited among top 20 distros. It
provides limited deviation from upstream. Thus, if upstream says something is
deprecated, Mageia either claims it's deprecated, or is silent on the subject.

Startx continues to work more or less as always in Mageia, just as in Debian,
though not necessarily perfectly:
https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15662

Since KDM has been removed from both Mageia and Stretch, killing KDM features
not supported by GDM, LightDM or SDDM, I more often start X sessions in those
installations using startx than otherwise (which usually means TDM).

One of my use cases for startx is need for simultaneously run X sessions
*initialized* with unique and/or arbitrary configurations, e.g.:

1920x1200@120DPI on :0 (default, via login greeter)
1440x900@108DPI on :1 (non-default, via vtty3 login)
1920x1200@132DPI on :2 with panning (virtual desktop) 1920x2400

If such is supported entirely from running Xorg, I have yet to find how. Such
settings from within any running DE don't count, due to key requirements
"initialized" and "arbitrary" that obviate starting a session, configuring via
GUI, then restarting session with the just applied (user-specific) 
modifications.
-- 
"Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Whatever else you
get, get wisdom." Proverbs 4:7 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

Stephane asked for a help and got it. I also given him the best advice
based on my experience with "startx" shell script.
"$ sudo systemctl start display-manager.service" is most fail-safe
command to start desktop environment from console session on any
systemd-adopted distro.

Here is some example disadvantages of using "startx":
* "startx" often requires user to go extra mile and configure or keep
track of changes in ~/.xinitrc ~/.xsessionrc scripts.
* If you use Xfce and will start it by "startx" you will pass on display
manager and greeter, and if you manually lock your session at some point
with xflock4 you will get black screen without any way of unlocking it
other than logging into another tty and doing it from console. This is
understandable, because by using "startx" with Xfce you passed on
session and seat management.
* Some users could fire "sudo startx" at some point and give themselves
a good chance to ruin their system.

You can use whatever you want, as I already said it doesn't mean
"startx" doesn't exist or work anymore, and you have to understand there
is many ways to do something in Linux, but just any way doesn't always
means it is the right way.

To all respectable people, go ahead and grab pitchforks and torches
there is somebody with different\wrong opinion on The Internets.



On 17.10.2017 19:39, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 07:32:11PM +0500, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
>> Deprecated doesn't mean it doesn't exist or work anymore at all, it
>> means it isn't supported anymore and should not be used.
>> Look it up, it [startx] was deprecated for quite some time.
> Quoting from
> https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html
>
> ==
> * Only the gdm3 display manager supports running X as a non-privileged
>   user in stretch. Other display managers will always run X as
>   root. Alternatively, you can also start X manually as a non-root user
>   on a virtual terminal via startx.
>
> When run as a regular user, the Xorg log will be available from
> ~/.local/share/xorg/.
> ==
>
> Looks supported to me.

-- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄ 

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Brian]

On Tue 17 Oct 2017 at 13:56:37 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 06:42:04PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Tue 17 Oct 2017 at 11:38:40 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > > On Tue 17 Oct 2017 at 19:32:11 (+0500), Alexan:der V. Makartsev wrote:
> > > > Deprecated doesn't mean it doesn't exist or work anymore at all, it
> > > > means it isn't supported anymore and should not be used.
> > > > Look it up, it was deprecated for quite some time.
> 
> >  https://forums.mageia.org/en/viewtopic.php?f=8=8737 
> 
> So it's deprecated in Mageia GNU/Linux?  OK.  If I were a Mageia user (or
> had ever heard of it before today) that might carry some weight with me.
> 
> Just curious, what are Mageia users expected to use instead of startx if
> they want to start a traditional X session from a console?  Or is that
> no longer a supported configuration at all?  (By traditional, I mean
> a ~/.xsession or ~/.xinitrc file that contains "exec twm" or whatever
> window manager you prefer.)
> 
> Did they simply throw every window manager under the bus and say "Nope,
> sorry, you gotta run a desktop environment now"?

That is possible, but I'm not going to invest the time in finding out.
The purpose of my post was to point out Alexan:der V. Makartsev's use
of a post from elsewhere without acknowledgement and indicate Debian's
attitude towards startx (without going into detail).

I use startx. My users get xdm because they have poor memories for the
names of commands and like pretty pictures.

-- 
Brian.

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[David Wright]

On Tue 17 Oct 2017 at 13:56:37 (-0400), Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 06:42:04PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Tue 17 Oct 2017 at 11:38:40 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > > On Tue 17 Oct 2017 at 19:32:11 (+0500), Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> > > > Deprecated doesn't mean it doesn't exist or work anymore at all, it
> > > > means it isn't supported anymore and should not be used.
> > > > Look it up, it was deprecated for quite some time.
> 
> >  https://forums.mageia.org/en/viewtopic.php?f=8=8737 
> 
> So it's deprecated in Mageia GNU/Linux?  OK.  If I were a Mageia user (or
> had ever heard of it before today) that might carry some weight with me.
> 
> Just curious, what are Mageia users expected to use instead of startx if
> they want to start a traditional X session from a console?  Or is that
> no longer a supported configuration at all?  (By traditional, I mean
> a ~/.xsession or ~/.xinitrc file that contains "exec twm" or whatever
> window manager you prefer.)

I see no evidence from a quick look at their website and the wiki
that they support (or ever supported) X without a DE. I may be wrong;
it's difficult to prove a negative. I'd be interested in a reference
to a counter-example.

> Did they simply throw every window manager under the bus and say "Nope,
> sorry, you gotta run a desktop environment now"?

Did they ever support WMs? If not, then they wouldn't have any reason
to get rid of them, and what would they have used startx for. Why
would they have any reason to deprecate it rather than just ignore it?

Cheers,
David.

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 06:42:04PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Tue 17 Oct 2017 at 11:38:40 -0500, David Wright wrote:
> > On Tue 17 Oct 2017 at 19:32:11 (+0500), Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> > > Deprecated doesn't mean it doesn't exist or work anymore at all, it
> > > means it isn't supported anymore and should not be used.
> > > Look it up, it was deprecated for quite some time.

>  https://forums.mageia.org/en/viewtopic.php?f=8=8737 

So it's deprecated in Mageia GNU/Linux?  OK.  If I were a Mageia user (or
had ever heard of it before today) that might carry some weight with me.

Just curious, what are Mageia users expected to use instead of startx if
they want to start a traditional X session from a console?  Or is that
no longer a supported configuration at all?  (By traditional, I mean
a ~/.xsession or ~/.xinitrc file that contains "exec twm" or whatever
window manager you prefer.)

Did they simply throw every window manager under the bus and say "Nope,
sorry, you gotta run a desktop environment now"?

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Brian]

On Tue 17 Oct 2017 at 11:38:40 -0500, David Wright wrote:

> On Tue 17 Oct 2017 at 19:32:11 (+0500), Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> > Deprecated doesn't mean it doesn't exist or work anymore at all, it
> > means it isn't supported anymore and should not be used.
> > Look it up, it was deprecated for quite some time.
> 
> Please get a grip and provide a reference.

For what is quoted?

 https://forums.mageia.org/en/viewtopic.php?f=8=8737 

Debian has gone to quite some trouble to fit startx into all the changes
which have taken place in xorg and the init system. Kudos.

-- 
Brian.

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[David Wright]

On Tue 17 Oct 2017 at 19:32:11 (+0500), Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> Deprecated doesn't mean it doesn't exist or work anymore at all, it
> means it isn't supported anymore and should not be used.
> Look it up, it was deprecated for quite some time.

Please get a grip and provide a reference.

> On 17.10.2017 19:16, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 07:05:13PM +0500, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> >> I think "startx" command is deprecated now and you shouldn't use it
> >> anymore.
> > Nonsense.  Many people (including me) use it all the time.  Granted,
> > I don't use KDE.

Cheers,
David.

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Jimmy Johnson]

On 10/17/2017 07:39 AM, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 07:32:11PM +0500, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:

Deprecated doesn't mean it doesn't exist or work anymore at all, it
means it isn't supported anymore and should not be used.
Look it up, it [startx] was deprecated for quite some time.


Quoting from
https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html

==
* Only the gdm3 display manager supports running X as a non-privileged
   user in stretch. Other display managers will always run X as
   root. Alternatively, you can also start X manually as a non-root user
   on a virtual terminal via startx.

When run as a regular user, the Xorg log will be available from
~/.local/share/xorg/.
==

Looks supported to me.


+1
--
Jimmy Johnson

Debian Buster - KDE Plasma 5.8.7 - AMD A8-7600 - EXT4 at sda7
Registered Linux User #380263

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 07:32:11PM +0500, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> Deprecated doesn't mean it doesn't exist or work anymore at all, it
> means it isn't supported anymore and should not be used.
> Look it up, it [startx] was deprecated for quite some time.

Quoting from
https://www.debian.org/releases/stretch/amd64/release-notes/ch-whats-new.en.html

==
* Only the gdm3 display manager supports running X as a non-privileged
  user in stretch. Other display managers will always run X as
  root. Alternatively, you can also start X manually as a non-root user
  on a virtual terminal via startx.

When run as a regular user, the Xorg log will be available from
~/.local/share/xorg/.
==

Looks supported to me.

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

Deprecated doesn't mean it doesn't exist or work anymore at all, it
means it isn't supported anymore and should not be used.
Look it up, it was deprecated for quite some time.


On 17.10.2017 19:16, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 07:05:13PM +0500, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
>> I think "startx" command is deprecated now and you shouldn't use it
>> anymore.
> Nonsense.  Many people (including me) use it all the time.  Granted,
> I don't use KDE.
>

-- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄ 

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 07:05:13PM +0500, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> I think "startx" command is deprecated now and you shouldn't use it
> anymore.

Nonsense.  Many people (including me) use it all the time.  Granted,
I don't use KDE.

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Stephane L]

OK thank you AlexanderI will try this...
bests regards
stephane
 

Le Mardi 17 octobre 2017 16h05, Alexander V. Makartsev  
a écrit :
 

  I think "startx" command is deprecated now and you shouldn't use it anymore. 
Right way to start DE is by starting display manager service.
 This command should work in your case:
     $ sudo systemctl start sddm.service
 
 
 
 On 17.10.2017 18:55, Stephane L wrote:
  
  Hi, Alexander I Want to boot debian 9 in multi user mode (console),then do 
something then and then to startx kde5/xorg with startx as I do with 
debian8/kde4
   
 
  Le Mardi 17 octobre 2017 14h46, Alexander V. Makartsev 
 a écrit :
  
 
What are you trying to archieve? If you want to start DE you better launch 
it by starting your display manager (gdm in my case):
     $ sudo systemctl start gdm.service
 
 
  On 17.10.2017 17:24, Stephane L wrote:
  
 do I need too to make a .xinitrc with something like /usr/bin/startkde ? 
  
 
  Le Mardi 17 octobre 2017 14h11, Alexander V. Makartsev 
 a écrit :
  
 
Assuming you have systemd, you have to change final target from  graphical 
to multi-user.
 This shows possible targets:
     $ sudo systemctl list-units --type=target 
 
 This will show what target is default:
     $ sudo systemctl get-default
 
 This will set default target to "console mode" you want:
     $ sudo systemctl set-default multi-user.target
 
 This will redo the changes if you ever will want to start DE  by default:
     $ sudo systemctl set-default graphical.target
 
 You have to reboot to apply changes.
 
 
 
  On 17.10.2017 16:59, Stephane L wrote:
  
  Hi I have tried to remove sddm from /etc/init.d but  it starts always with 
sddm.I want to boot my debian 9 in console mode  and do startx to launch kde5 
as I do with debian 8  and kde4.does anyone know exactly how to do that ?  
  
 -- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄ 

   
 
  
  
 -- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄ 

   
 
  
 
 -- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄ 

 

   

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

I think "startx" command is deprecated now and you shouldn't use it
anymore. Right way to start DE is by starting display manager service.
This command should work in your case:
    $ sudo systemctl start sddm.service



On 17.10.2017 18:55, Stephane L wrote:
> Hi, Alexander
> I Want to boot debian 9 in multi user mode (console),then do something
> then and then to startx kde5/xorg with startx as I do with debian8/kde4
>
>
> Le Mardi 17 octobre 2017 14h46, Alexander V. Makartsev
>  a écrit :
>
>
> What are you trying to archieve? If you want to start DE you better
> launch it by starting your display manager (gdm in my case):
>     $ sudo systemctl start gdm.service
>
>
> On 17.10.2017 17:24, Stephane L wrote:
>> do I need too to make a .xinitrc with something like /usr/bin/startkde ?
>>
>>
>> Le Mardi 17 octobre 2017 14h11, Alexander V. Makartsev
>>   a écrit :
>>
>>
>> Assuming you have systemd, you have to change final target from
>> graphical to multi-user.
>> This shows possible targets:
>>     $ sudo systemctl list-units --type=target
>>
>> This will show what target is default:
>>     $ sudo systemctl get-default
>>
>> This will set default target to "console mode" you want:
>>     $ sudo systemctl set-default multi-user.target
>>
>> This will redo the changes if you ever will want to start DE by default:
>>     $ sudo systemctl set-default graphical.target
>>
>> You have to reboot to apply changes.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 17.10.2017 16:59, Stephane L wrote:
>>> Hi I have tried to remove sddm from /etc/init.d but it starts always
>>> with sddm.I want to boot my debian 9 in console mode and do startx
>>> to launch kde5 as I do with debian 8 and kde4.does anyone know
>>> exactly how to do that ?
>>
>> -- 
>> With kindest regards, Alexander.
>>
>> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
>> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
>> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org 
>> ⠈⠳⣄ 
>>
>>
>>
>
> -- 
> With kindest regards, Alexander.
>
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org 
> ⠈⠳⣄ 
>
>
>

-- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄ 

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Stephane L]

Hi, AlexanderI Want to boot debian 9 in multi user mode (console),then do 
something then and then to startx kde5/xorg with startx as I do with 
debian8/kde4
 

Le Mardi 17 octobre 2017 14h46, Alexander V. Makartsev  
a écrit :
 

  What are you trying to archieve? If you want to start DE you better launch it 
by starting your display manager (gdm in my case):
     $ sudo systemctl start gdm.service
 
 
 On 17.10.2017 17:24, Stephane L wrote:
  
 do I need too to make a .xinitrc with something like /usr/bin/startkde ? 
  
 
  Le Mardi 17 octobre 2017 14h11, Alexander V. Makartsev 
 a écrit :
  
 
Assuming you have systemd, you have to change final target from graphical 
to multi-user.
 This shows possible targets:
     $ sudo systemctl list-units --type=target 
 
 This will show what target is default:
     $ sudo systemctl get-default
 
 This will set default target to "console mode" you want:
     $ sudo systemctl set-default multi-user.target
 
 This will redo the changes if you ever will want to start DE by default:
     $ sudo systemctl set-default graphical.target
 
 You have to reboot to apply changes.
 
 
 
  On 17.10.2017 16:59, Stephane L wrote:
  
  Hi I have tried to remove sddm from /etc/init.d but it starts always with 
sddm.I want to boot my debian 9 in console mode and do startx to launch kde5 as 
I do with debian 8 and kde4.does anyone know exactly how to do  that ?  
  
 -- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄ 

   
 
  
 
 -- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄ 

 

   

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

What are you trying to archieve? If you want to start DE you better
launch it by starting your display manager (gdm in my case):
    $ sudo systemctl start gdm.service


On 17.10.2017 17:24, Stephane L wrote:
> do I need too to make a .xinitrc with something like /usr/bin/startkde ?
>
>
> Le Mardi 17 octobre 2017 14h11, Alexander V. Makartsev
>  a écrit :
>
>
> Assuming you have systemd, you have to change final target from
> graphical to multi-user.
> This shows possible targets:
>     $ sudo systemctl list-units --type=target
>
> This will show what target is default:
>     $ sudo systemctl get-default
>
> This will set default target to "console mode" you want:
>     $ sudo systemctl set-default multi-user.target
>
> This will redo the changes if you ever will want to start DE by default:
>     $ sudo systemctl set-default graphical.target
>
> You have to reboot to apply changes.
>
>
>
> On 17.10.2017 16:59, Stephane L wrote:
>> Hi I have tried to remove sddm from /etc/init.d but it starts always
>> with sddm.I want to boot my debian 9 in console mode and do startx to
>> launch kde5 as I do with debian 8 and kde4.does anyone know exactly
>> how to do that ?
>
> -- 
> With kindest regards, Alexander.
>
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org 
> ⠈⠳⣄ 
>
>
>

-- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄ 

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Stephane L]

do I need too to make a .xinitrc with something like /usr/bin/startkde ? 
 

Le Mardi 17 octobre 2017 14h11, Alexander V. Makartsev  
a écrit :
 

  Assuming you have systemd, you have to change final target from graphical to 
multi-user.
 This shows possible targets:
     $ sudo systemctl list-units --type=target 
 
 This will show what target is default:
     $ sudo systemctl get-default
 
 This will set default target to "console mode" you want:
     $ sudo systemctl set-default multi-user.target
 
 This will redo the changes if you ever will want to start DE by default:
     $ sudo systemctl set-default graphical.target
 
 You have to reboot to apply changes.
 
 
 
 On 17.10.2017 16:59, Stephane L wrote:
  
  Hi I have tried to remove sddm from /etc/init.d but it starts always with 
sddm.I want to boot my debian 9 in console mode and do startx to launch kde5 as 
I do with debian 8 and kde4.does anyone know exactly how to do that ?  
 
 -- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄ 

 

   

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Stephane L]

thank you very much alexander I will try this. 

Le Mardi 17 octobre 2017 14h11, Alexander V. Makartsev  
a écrit :
 

  Assuming you have systemd, you have to change final target from graphical to 
multi-user.
 This shows possible targets:
     $ sudo systemctl list-units --type=target 
 
 This will show what target is default:
     $ sudo systemctl get-default
 
 This will set default target to "console mode" you want:
     $ sudo systemctl set-default multi-user.target
 
 This will redo the changes if you ever will want to start DE by default:
     $ sudo systemctl set-default graphical.target
 
 You have to reboot to apply changes.
 
 
 
 On 17.10.2017 16:59, Stephane L wrote:
  
  Hi I have tried to remove sddm from /etc/init.d but it starts always with 
sddm.I want to boot my debian 9 in console mode and do startx to launch kde5 as 
I do with debian 8 and kde4.does anyone know exactly how to do that ?  
 
 -- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄ 

 

   

Re: removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

Assuming you have systemd, you have to change final target from
graphical to multi-user.
This shows possible targets:
    $ sudo systemctl list-units --type=target

This will show what target is default:
    $ sudo systemctl get-default

This will set default target to "console mode" you want:
    $ sudo systemctl set-default multi-user.target

This will redo the changes if you ever will want to start DE by default:
    $ sudo systemctl set-default graphical.target

You have to reboot to apply changes.



On 17.10.2017 16:59, Stephane L wrote:
> Hi I have tried to remove sddm from /etc/init.d but it starts always
> with sddm.I want to boot my debian 9 in console mode and do startx to
> launch kde5 as I do with debian 8 and kde4.does anyone know exactly
> how to do that ?

-- 
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄ 

removing of sddm (debian 9 -kde5) to start in console mode then startx to start kde5

[Stephane L]

Hi I have tried to remove sddm from /etc/init.d but it starts always with 
sddm.I want to boot my debian 9 in console mode and do startx to launch kde5 as 
I do with debian 8 and kde4.does anyone know exactly how to do that ?