Re: tardy sarge to etch upgrade proceedure
Mark Copper wrote: Economics aside, I am still amazed after all these years at the power free software has provided to the ordinary person. No university or corporation needed; just read and ask questions. Cool. And in what way does a GOOD closed-source software vendor break that? I've worked with plenty of closed-source applications and OS's over the years who's creators encouraged reading their excellent documentation and asking questions, and answered them. MS isn't one of them, but they are out there. It's not just an "open-source" phenomenon. It's a Customer Service and QUALITY phenomenon. Start using WindRiver, Microware, or Green Hills software and give them a call with a real programming problem, and see how they respond, for example. Even the Solaris team at Sun Microsystems, HP-UX team within HP, and the AIX team at IBM are all more responsive than MS about things. Claiming this "transparency" or "power" for the end-user wasn't there before open-source is disingenuous. Plenty of GREAT closed-source OS and application vendors out here still. The hype/religious experience of open-source notwithstanding... Nate -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: tardy sarge to etch upgrade proceedure
On Thu, Nov 06, 2008 at 07:51:43AM +0100, s. keeling wrote: > Mark Copper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > I, ahem, need to upgrade oldstable to stable, but I cannot update my > > current oldstable system, no longer supported as it is. How important is > > it to do that before upgrading? > > But Geez, man, point some bucks at a competent consultant, and you > wouldn't be in this mess. He could keep you up to date with an hour / > mo. Stockholders shouldn't be getting ALL the profits, damnit! IT > demands maintenance to continue to perform as expected. You should > know that. > > For my $CLIENT, I'm currently updating a critical ksh program which > hasn't been touched since it was implemented, fourteen years ago. It's > hell, and it needn't be! Boy! That captures a lot about free software movement in just a couple of lines. It is a wonderful thing that so many people have contributed so much to the Debian project. But isn't Stallman's idea (to name one luminary) that there is (should be) a viable economic model in offering just such consulting? And certainly even a dyed-in-the-wool DIYer would buy in that marketplace if prices and services were transparent. The range of skills and knowledge needed to do everything is just too big for one person to handle with any efficiency. But there are problems. The marketplace is not very transparent (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons). And the very success of making the various software components modular leads to such idiosyncratic systems as not to be economically viable. Economics aside, I am still amazed after all these years at the power free software has provided to the ordinary person. No university or corporation needed; just read and ask questions. Cool. mark -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: tardy sarge to etch upgrade proceedure
Mark Copper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > I, ahem, need to upgrade oldstable to stable, but I cannot update my > current oldstable system, no longer supported as it is. How important is > it to do that before upgrading? Thanks for asking the questions, because the resultant answers were informative. But Geez, man, point some bucks at a competent consultant, and you wouldn't be in this mess. He could keep you up to date with an hour / mo. Stockholders shouldn't be getting ALL the profits, damnit! IT demands maintenance to continue to perform as expected. You should know that. For my $CLIENT, I'm currently updating a critical ksh program which hasn't been touched since it was implemented, fourteen years ago. It's hell, and it needn't be! -- Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. (*)http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html Linux Counter #80292 - -http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.htmlPlease, don't Cc: me. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: tardy sarge to etch upgrade proceedure
On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 07:36:45PM -0500, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: > On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 08:42:16AM -0600, Mark Copper wrote: > > I, ahem, need to upgrade oldstable to stable, but I cannot update my > > current oldstable system, no longer supported as it is. How important is > > it to do that before upgrading? > > > > I have not used aptitude on this system before. How important is that? > > I'd install aptitude and the aptitude-doc package. Read the > documentation in the -doc package. Get aptitude sorted out re what > packages are installed because _you_ want them (manually installed), and > what packages are installed only to satisfy dependancies (Automatically > installed, have and "A" flag in the curses-user-interface). Turn off > automatic installation of recommends. Get comfortable with the curses > interface. This is all in Sarge before you do the jump to Etch. > > Print out a list of the packages that you have installed (not > automatically) with > > aptitude search '~i!~M' > > Save this with your other backups that you make before you mess with > your system. Thanks for that. > > > > It would be nice to run the upgrade through the screen program. Is it > > possible to apt-get install screen after apt-get update with etch > > sources but before running upgrade? > > Is screen not in Sarge? > > What concern does running through screen address? It is -- I just didn't know about the archive sources. It's a fail-safe recommended in the release notes. > > Finally, in order to patch a hardware driver, the kernel is custom > > compiled. That means the kernel will not be upgraded, but that new > > sources will be downloaded. Right? > > > Does your box boot a non-patched kernel? If so, run (and upgrade) with > that then get the sources and fix things after the upgrade is complete. I don't know. I'll need to diff the driver for my RAID card. With Sarge it was necessary to patch in the manufacturer supplied (though open source) driver. Hopefully that will not be necessary. But since I'm 12 hours drive from the box, I want to look before I leap. > > > Any pointers to post-support documentation or mail-list threads would be > > appreciated. > > > Check the debian-user list archives for the period when etch went > stable. ditto the debian-boot list. > > Personally, my upgrade from Sarge to Etch died when libc somehow got > corrupted during upgrading. Nothing seemed to work without libc since > there isn't much on a standard debian system that is statically linked. > I ended up doing a fresh etch install. > > Since there is always the possibility of something going wrong during an > upgrade, you should have the installation manual available. > > You should read the installation manual for Etch and Lenny before you > begin. There may be features in etch or lenny that you wish to use that > would be easier to setup from the get-go in a fresh install (e.g. / on > LVM or raid, encrypted partitions (e.g. swap or /home). > Good. Thanks. Mark -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: tardy sarge to etch upgrade proceedure
On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 08:42:16AM -0600, Mark Copper wrote: > I, ahem, need to upgrade oldstable to stable, but I cannot update my > current oldstable system, no longer supported as it is. How important is > it to do that before upgrading? > > I have not used aptitude on this system before. How important is that? I'd install aptitude and the aptitude-doc package. Read the documentation in the -doc package. Get aptitude sorted out re what packages are installed because _you_ want them (manually installed), and what packages are installed only to satisfy dependancies (Automatically installed, have and "A" flag in the curses-user-interface). Turn off automatic installation of recommends. Get comfortable with the curses interface. This is all in Sarge before you do the jump to Etch. Print out a list of the packages that you have installed (not automatically) with aptitude search '~i!~M' Save this with your other backups that you make before you mess with your system. > It would be nice to run the upgrade through the screen program. Is it > possible to apt-get install screen after apt-get update with etch > sources but before running upgrade? Is screen not in Sarge? What concern does running through screen address? > Finally, in order to patch a hardware driver, the kernel is custom > compiled. That means the kernel will not be upgraded, but that new > sources will be downloaded. Right? Does your box boot a non-patched kernel? If so, run (and upgrade) with that then get the sources and fix things after the upgrade is complete. > Any pointers to post-support documentation or mail-list threads would be > appreciated. Check the debian-user list archives for the period when etch went stable. ditto the debian-boot list. Personally, my upgrade from Sarge to Etch died when libc somehow got corrupted during upgrading. Nothing seemed to work without libc since there isn't much on a standard debian system that is statically linked. I ended up doing a fresh etch install. Since there is always the possibility of something going wrong during an upgrade, you should have the installation manual available. You should read the installation manual for Etch and Lenny before you begin. There may be features in etch or lenny that you wish to use that would be easier to setup from the get-go in a fresh install (e.g. / on LVM or raid, encrypted partitions (e.g. swap or /home). Good luck. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: tardy sarge to etch upgrade proceedure
On 2008-11-03 15:42 +0100, Mark Copper wrote: > I, ahem, need to upgrade oldstable to stable, but I cannot update my > current oldstable system, no longer supported as it is. How important is > it to do that before upgrading? Not very much. However you should be able to do this, if you replace your current entry pointing to sarge (or oldstable) in your sources.list with this one: deb http://archive.debian.org/debian/ sarge main contrib non-free > I have not used aptitude on this system before. How important is that? Quite important, aptitude is the recommended package manager in etch. For its advantages over apt-get see the following summary by a leading Debian developer: http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2004/04/msg03138.html¹. > It would be nice to run the upgrade through the screen program. Is it > possible to apt-get install screen after apt-get update with etch > sources but before running upgrade? Probably, but you should also be able to install screen before the upgrade if you put the above line into your sources.list. > Finally, in order to patch a hardware driver, the kernel is custom > compiled. That means the kernel will not be upgraded, but that new > sources will be downloaded. Right? If you want to build a custom kernel, install the linux-source-2.6.18 package. It will not be automatically installed, since there is no metapackage to track the latest kernel sources, AFAIK. > Any pointers to post-support documentation or mail-list threads would be > appreciated. Be sure to read the release notes at http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/releasenotes. They are the most accurate and extensive source of information there is. Sven ¹ Although Joey wrote this message three years before the etch release, all his points are still valid in etch. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
tardy sarge to etch upgrade proceedure
Hi, I, ahem, need to upgrade oldstable to stable, but I cannot update my current oldstable system, no longer supported as it is. How important is it to do that before upgrading? I have not used aptitude on this system before. How important is that? It would be nice to run the upgrade through the screen program. Is it possible to apt-get install screen after apt-get update with etch sources but before running upgrade? Finally, in order to patch a hardware driver, the kernel is custom compiled. That means the kernel will not be upgraded, but that new sources will be downloaded. Right? Any pointers to post-support documentation or mail-list threads would be appreciated. Thank you. mark -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
