Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Software for searching junkmail
I too have had the same problem when switching over to SmarterMail. I have been using a product called emailexplorer which is part of Outlook Extract OE which is available from www.outlookextract.com The only problem is that I can't directly push an item into the smartermail spool because of the two files (.eml & .hdr) that need to be pushed there. What I do is view the messages and then delete the spam messages while leaving the FPs in the folder. I was able to email the developer and they added the ability to show the filename of the individual message to the columns that display such as from: to: etc. I them go into the spam folder, highlight the 12345678.eml and 12345678.hdr files, right click, and and send to the SmarterMail spool. It works for me and we review in excess of 3,000 messages per day. If you have any more questions. Jeff On 4/7/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Does anyone know of any good applications for browsing items in the spam folders? Has to be compatible with SmarterMail. Thanks. John
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Software for searching junkmail
Declude has always been lacking by not providing any hold review mechanism. However, when Declude Junkmail Pro was $500 one-time, plus a small yearly service contract it was hard to quibble about short comings. Now they are retailing Declude as at prices up to $1750 per year. If they expect to be able to justify such price increases, they need to provide additional functionality which rounds out the feature set of the product, including spam review / user retrieval of held messages. -Jay -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John T (Lists) Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 6:37 PM To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Software for searching junkmail > Nobody gives a damn about the history of a software product. What they do > care about is whether Declude is fully functional or not. The Declude line of products do what they are intended to do quite well and at this point with a low bug count. As more people such as yourself demand an all-inclusive-packaged-neat product the owners of Declude are doing their best to bend to your desires. By the history of how the Declude line of products were originally created and then developed through time, it is taking a lot of time and effort to "convert" them from the products we have come to love and use into the pretty package people like you are demanding. In my opinion, and the opinion of many others which I am sure is the majority is that Declude is indeed fully functional for what it does. > Providing a means to hold email, without a means to identify email held in > error, is only half of a solution. Its like sending a man to the moon > without giving thought to how to get them back home again. In the beginning, they were given a parachute. Last time I checked, Imail's SMD files and SmarterMail's EML files can be opened and read with Notepad, which is freely included with all Microsoft Operating systems. > Moreover, my purchase decision was based upon discussions that occurred when > I evaluated Declude. So please do not presume to speak for the new owners of > Declude because you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Taken off list. > No...what I said was that only very rarely is it ever necessary to view the > content of a message. That is a huge distinction between the alternative of > using a mail client to sort through spam and seeing the content of every > message. >From the prospective of us admins, viewing a message includes the entire message, starting with the headers and including the envelope and then body if warranted. Therefore, viewing a message is viewing a message is viewing a message. A question about privacy does not care about how it is viewed but about if it is viewed. John T eServices For You "Seek, and ye shall find!" --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Software for searching junkmail
> Nobody gives a damn about the history of a software product. What they do > care about is whether Declude is fully functional or not. The Declude line of products do what they are intended to do quite well and at this point with a low bug count. As more people such as yourself demand an all-inclusive-packaged-neat product the owners of Declude are doing their best to bend to your desires. By the history of how the Declude line of products were originally created and then developed through time, it is taking a lot of time and effort to "convert" them from the products we have come to love and use into the pretty package people like you are demanding. In my opinion, and the opinion of many others which I am sure is the majority is that Declude is indeed fully functional for what it does. > Providing a means to hold email, without a means to identify email held in > error, is only half of a solution. Its like sending a man to the moon > without giving thought to how to get them back home again. In the beginning, they were given a parachute. Last time I checked, Imail's SMD files and SmarterMail's EML files can be opened and read with Notepad, which is freely included with all Microsoft Operating systems. > Moreover, my purchase decision was based upon discussions that occurred when > I evaluated Declude. So please do not presume to speak for the new owners of > Declude because you don't have a clue what you're talking about. Taken off list. > No...what I said was that only very rarely is it ever necessary to view the > content of a message. That is a huge distinction between the alternative of > using a mail client to sort through spam and seeing the content of every > message. >From the prospective of us admins, viewing a message includes the entire message, starting with the headers and including the envelope and then body if warranted. Therefore, viewing a message is viewing a message is viewing a message. A question about privacy does not care about how it is viewed but about if it is viewed. John T eServices For You "Seek, and ye shall find!" --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Software for searching junkmail
> > There is a big difference between the history of a software product and > current projects for it. While you may claim to have information about a > current project, actual or otherwise, your lack of understanding of the > history of Declude and its products is indeed lacking, though by no means > required unless you are going to make a statement like you did. Saying that > "Declude is an incomplete product" is a subjective statement based on what > you expect Declude should be, not what the owners of Declude intend it to > be. > Nobody gives a damn about the history of a software product. What they do care about is whether Declude is fully functional or not. Providing a means to hold email, without a means to identify email held in error, is only half of a solution. Its like sending a man to the moon without giving thought to how to get them back home again. Moreover, my purchase decision was based upon discussions that occurred when I evaluated Declude. So please do not presume to speak for the new owners of Declude because you don't have a clue what you're talking about. > > OOPS, the truth comes out. You are concerned about privacy if some one can > find out that it has been violated, but if they do not know about it then by > your statement it is not a violation or concern. Sounds like a double > standard to me. Besides, there is a way, in Imail anyways, for an admin to > view a mail box and move messages to other e-mail without the headers being > changed. > No...what I said was that only very rarely is it ever necessary to view the content of a message. That is a huge distinction between the alternative of using a mail client to sort through spam and seeing the content of every message. This is a smartermail and Declude discussion -- imail has no relevance to this discussion. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Software for searching junkmail
> Actually, your understanding of the history of Declude is what is lacking. > I have had direct dialogue with the new owners of Declude and I was asked > not to share information on this list. So before you start suggesting that > I'm speaking out of turn you should know that you don't have all the facts. > All I will say is promises were broken. There is a big difference between the history of a software product and current projects for it. While you may claim to have information about a current project, actual or otherwise, your lack of understanding of the history of Declude and its products is indeed lacking, though by no means required unless you are going to make a statement like you did. Saying that "Declude is an incomplete product" is a subjective statement based on what you expect Declude should be, not what the owners of Declude intend it to be. > As for the whole privacy/hypocritical bit -- what people don't know doesn't > hurt them. I can review spam with a product like spamreview and I can tell > from the domain name, return address and subject what is spam in 95% of the > cases. Its very rare that I would have to look at the actual content of the > message. When a legit email is found, it can be moved into the spool and is > sent to the recipient and the recipient doesn't ever know that email was > trapped and held as spam. > > If we have to review email sent to a mail address, the content of the email > is exposed in every case if we have the outlook preview option enabled. No, > we will not review the spam using webmail. Moreover, to get the email then > to the intended recipient would require a forward and then they would have > issues about privacy. OOPS, the truth comes out. You are concerned about privacy if some one can find out that it has been violated, but if they do not know about it then by your statement it is not a violation or concern. Sounds like a double standard to me. Besides, there is a way, in Imail anyways, for an admin to view a mail box and move messages to other e-mail without the headers being changed. John T eServices For You "Seek, and ye shall find!" --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Software for searching junkmail
John, Actually, your understanding of the history of Declude is what is lacking. I have had direct dialogue with the new owners of Declude and I was asked not to share information on this list. So before you start suggesting that I'm speaking out of turn you should know that you don't have all the facts. All I will say is promises were broken. As for the whole privacy/hypocritical bit -- what people don't know doesn't hurt them. I can review spam with a product like spamreview and I can tell from the domain name, return address and subject what is spam in 95% of the cases. Its very rare that I would have to look at the actual content of the message. When a legit email is found, it can be moved into the spool and is sent to the recipient and the recipient doesn't ever know that email was trapped and held as spam. If we have to review email sent to a mail address, the content of the email is exposed in every case if we have the outlook preview option enabled. No, we will not review the spam using webmail. Moreover, to get the email then to the intended recipient would require a forward and then they would have issues about privacy. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Declude.JunkMail- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John T (Lists) > Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 1:54 PM > To: Declude.JunkMail@declude.com > Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Software for searching junkmail > > > Declude is an incomplete product without a solution to identifying false > > positives in the spam folders. > > > That leaves a requirement for something like spamreview as the only > > legitimate option available - but we have been unsuccessful in getting > > Declude to update it to work with smartermail. > > Dave, your understanding of the history of the Declude products in lacking. > > I do not have the time to go into the history for you at this time, but > suffice it to say the owners of Declude are doing their best to package up > the Declude products into a form that many have become accustomed to in > other software. However, as many of us long time Declude users know and > understand that the very features that make Declude the great software it is > are the very same features that are making it so difficult to package up > into a nice neat include all package that many are demanding. > > Since Declude did not create SpamReview, and further since the original > creator of SpamReview has decided not to further develop or support the > product, there is no requirement on any ones part to make SpamReview work > with Declude for SmarterMail. > > There are a lot of people that are making complaints and accusations against > Delude for various things at various times, including myself when warranted. > > Make sure you do so for only those things under their control. > > > Some folks route spam to an email address that the admin reviews, but that > > is a violation of privacy and not a direction we care to go. Moreover, > > there is no means to forward the legitimate email on the recipient without > > it appearing to have come from us. We also can't ask our users to > > periodically check a spam address and none of our users use webmail > either. > > As to your remarks about privacy, you are being hypocritical. On one hand > you are saying that viewing the message if sent to a review account is > violating privacy yet you are demanding support for SpamReview which lets > you view the exact same message that you would see in a review account. How > can viewing the e-mail in question in a review account violate privacy but > viewing the same e-mail in SpamReview not violate privacy? > > > Its not a good situation if you have legitimate business email not being > > received by customers. > > No it is not, and I do not have that problem using Imail and Declude and > SpamReview. > > John T > eServices For You > > "Seek, and ye shall find!" > > > --- > This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To > unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and > type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found > at http://www.mail-archive.com. > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Software for searching junkmail
> Some folks route spam to an email address that the admin reviews, but that > is a violation of privacy and not a direction we care to go. So add this and stop spending so much time worrying. trailer.txt --- WARNING: All e-mail sent to or from this address will be received or otherwise recorded by the Corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Software for searching junkmail
> Declude is an incomplete product without a solution to identifying false > positives in the spam folders. > That leaves a requirement for something like spamreview as the only > legitimate option available - but we have been unsuccessful in getting > Declude to update it to work with smartermail. Dave, your understanding of the history of the Declude products in lacking. I do not have the time to go into the history for you at this time, but suffice it to say the owners of Declude are doing their best to package up the Declude products into a form that many have become accustomed to in other software. However, as many of us long time Declude users know and understand that the very features that make Declude the great software it is are the very same features that are making it so difficult to package up into a nice neat include all package that many are demanding. Since Declude did not create SpamReview, and further since the original creator of SpamReview has decided not to further develop or support the product, there is no requirement on any ones part to make SpamReview work with Declude for SmarterMail. There are a lot of people that are making complaints and accusations against Delude for various things at various times, including myself when warranted. Make sure you do so for only those things under their control. > Some folks route spam to an email address that the admin reviews, but that > is a violation of privacy and not a direction we care to go. Moreover, > there is no means to forward the legitimate email on the recipient without > it appearing to have come from us. We also can't ask our users to > periodically check a spam address and none of our users use webmail either. As to your remarks about privacy, you are being hypocritical. On one hand you are saying that viewing the message if sent to a review account is violating privacy yet you are demanding support for SpamReview which lets you view the exact same message that you would see in a review account. How can viewing the e-mail in question in a review account violate privacy but viewing the same e-mail in SpamReview not violate privacy? > Its not a good situation if you have legitimate business email not being > received by customers. No it is not, and I do not have that problem using Imail and Declude and SpamReview. John T eServices For You "Seek, and ye shall find!" --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Software for searching junkmail
Hi Dave, Sorry I haven't been able to get you a new spamreview app as I had indicated I would do in January. I injured my back in December and was mostly laid up for a couple of months, and then snowballed into other health issues. I've been back at it for a month now, catching up on customer projects first. I should be caught up completely by the end of the month and can finally knock out the spamreview app I've had planned for both IMail and SmarterMail. I'll send out more info at the end of the month when I start on it. Note that any review mechanism would have the same privacy issues. In cases where the body must be reviewed to determine legitimacy (headers and subject not being enough in some cases), there doesn't seem to be any way around the privacy issues. However, with a good app that makes review and maintenance of various custom whitelisting/negative weighting as simple and speedy as possible, hopefully dealing with false positives will be as painless as possible. We've also explored the spam folder possibility with our users, but the consensus from our customers has been a resounding "No", choosing to pay more for no spam than having to review a spam folder for legitimate mail. Darin. - Original Message - From: "Dave Beckstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 2:05 PM Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Software for searching junkmail John, Declude is an incomplete product without a solution to identifying false positives in the spam folders. Some folks route spam to an email address that the admin reviews, but that is a violation of privacy and not a direction we care to go. Moreover, there is no means to forward the legitimate email on the recipient without it appearing to have come from us. We also can't ask our users to periodically check a spam address and none of our users use webmail either. That leaves a requirement for something like spamreview as the only legitimate option available - but we have been unsuccessful in getting Declude to update it to work with smartermail. Its not a good situation if you have legitimate business email not being received by customers. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Software for searching junkmail
John, Declude is an incomplete product without a solution to identifying false positives in the spam folders. Some folks route spam to an email address that the admin reviews, but that is a violation of privacy and not a direction we care to go. Moreover, there is no means to forward the legitimate email on the recipient without it appearing to have come from us. We also can't ask our users to periodically check a spam address and none of our users use webmail either. That leaves a requirement for something like spamreview as the only legitimate option available - but we have been unsuccessful in getting Declude to update it to work with smartermail. Its not a good situation if you have legitimate business email not being received by customers. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
[Declude.JunkMail] Software for searching junkmail
Does anyone know of any good applications for browsing items in the spam folders? Has to be compatible with SmarterMail. Thanks. John
