Re: [Declude.JunkMail] A Question of Ethics
All, As I read your replies, 1984 plays on Showtime (I kid you not!). The main character just read a printed letter (prehistoric email) and promptly burned it in his desk side incinerator. Thank you for your thoughtful, candid, and emphatic responses. If I may wax philosophic (and Socratic), what we are dealing with is human nature and our new found ability to do things we may have wanted to do but lacked the technology. What makes 'stolen' web time or email time (or instant messenger time) different from time spent smoking by the back door or chatting is that our technology allows us to track, store, and most importantly, tally it up. As trackers, storers, and talliers, we facilitate this. Ethics asks but one question: should we? To this question, you have surprising and valuable answers. The judgment of a tool cannot be separated from its uses, so what are its uses. Employers own the computers, the software, the network backbone, the bandwidth, and the employees time; given up in exchange for the employers money. The employer then, owns the 'right' to do that which and have done with what they wish. But there is a line. Imagine a classroom full of kids whispering to one another. Now imagine that instead, they are passing notes. Now imagine they all have laptops that communicate through school owned networks (say 802.11). Kids have always been passing notes and teachers have always been catching them, some of them, once in a while. The difference with laptops and software, however, is that the school monitors ALL messages and catches ALL inappropriate notes, down to the smallest whisper. What makes 1984 so rediculous is not that so much snooping would happen, its that so many jobs/people/energy would be devoted to the task. With technology, that limitation melts away. In my particular example, the employer very likely knew what was going on (like the 'bad' kid in class). He was probably a gross time waster deserved to be fired. My concern isn't with him, its with everyone still there. Suppose that every other employee finds out that the fired employee was in part (even the smallest part) caught because of email he expected to receive that instead went to management. What does it do to their psyche's? My greatest fear is my intelligence being used to hurt others. I push my Declude configuration to the edge of perfection and beyond so I can beat the spammers and while this is no Trinity (1st atom bomb project), I want to be aware of its potential uses and misuses. As for To many companies ethics is spelled ethic$. Hopefully we as a group are not among them. I consider Declude admins to be as Declude, a cut above. Dan On Wednesday, February 26, 2003 16:20, Dan Patnode [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I realize this is two questions in one day, but its a slow list day, so: Rather than deleting spam, I forward it tagged or to a shared mailbox, clients choice. I just found out that within a week of starting my my anti spam service (delivery choice 2), a company fired an employee for receiving tons of porn via email. They also have web monitoring in place so this was the last piece to their puzzle, but... How does everyone feel about our role playing Big Brother against employees? Dan --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] A Question of Ethics
The recurring theme I'm seeing in this thread is a concern of being implicated in the misuse of the Declude (or similar) tools to punish someone wrongly. That's a valid concern. What's being left unsaid is a concern of previously established tools (such as high speed internet access and Email) being misused and causing personal harm. The focus is on how the new tool is being used, not how the old tool has been corrupted. I see being part of an anti-pornography effort at work being very similar to removing liquor from your house if you have a guest who's a recovering alcoholic. If you approach your task from the vantage of helping someone AVOID a problem, you are taking the right action. I believe the fact that some employers may misuse information to mistreat employees is countered by the fact that some employees abuse the trust employers place in them. Your goal should be to be discerning on who you choose to associate with so that you are not worrying about whether a tool created for good is turned to evil. Hope this helps, -Bill Naber -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dan Patnode Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] A Question of Ethics I realize this is two questions in one day, but its a slow list day, so: Rather than deleting spam, I forward it tagged or to a shared mailbox, clients choice. I just found out that within a week of starting my my anti spam service (delivery choice 2), a company fired an employee for receiving tons of porn via email. They also have web monitoring in place so this was the last piece to their puzzle, but... How does everyone feel about our role playing Big Brother against employees? Dan --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] A Question of Ethics
Below is an overview of what I believe is most relevant to me (in reverse chronological order), thank you for helping me clarify a troubling situation!: I believe the fact that some employers may misuse information to mistreat employees is countered by the fact that some employees abuse the trust employers place in them. Your goal should be to be discerning who you choose to associate with so that you are not worrying about whether a tool created for good is turned to evil. -Bill Virtually every Internet related application is designed to manage or regulate the distribution or reception of data in some way. Tools that log activity are absolutely necessary. Tools that are intentionally designed to invade a users privacy are quite another thing entirely. -Brian A firewall log is a neutral record of general Internet activity. Any reasonably informed adult who uses the Internet should understand their actions may be logged, in the same way they understand a policeman might be watching them when they drive their car down a road. Certain parts of our daily activities are observed; that's a facet of urban life. What matters is whether the prior intent of the observation is hostile. -Keith In fact the company [without an Internet use policy] could loose twice. Once by someone who was offended by a fellow employees use of porn at the workplace and second by a wrongful termination suit by the offender. Many companies just added the Internet and email to the system without considering the consequences. Time to examine the company policies. -David any action or change on our part to manipulate the information presented to the client would be unethical in itself. -John If, however, you feel that, acting as a spam expert, you did not adequately represent the extremely high likelihood that pornographic e-mail is unsolicited, or, even worse, gave the reverse impression (i.e., that your filtering service--impossibly!--only allows through porn that was desired by the end user, deleting everything else on arrival), you should try to remedy this misunderstanding immediately. -Sandy --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] A Question of Ethics
1. We are providing the data as a necessary service - the decisions about how that data is applied are out of our hands. I would hope that they would be used in an enlightened way, and in our shop we do that - however the discretion and the definition of enlightened is up to the ultimate owner (see 2) of those facilities. 2. In corporate and similar environments, the facilities provided to employees are entirely under the domain of the owners (== those paying the bills) and therefore they are entitled to monitor anything about those facilities and how they are used. My $0.02 _M ]-Original Message- ]From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dan Patnode ]Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:20 PM ]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ]Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] A Question of Ethics ] ] ]I realize this is two questions in one day, but its a slow list day, so: ] ]Rather than deleting spam, I forward it tagged or to a shared ]mailbox, clients choice. I just found out that within a week of ]starting my my anti spam service (delivery choice 2), a company ]fired an employee for receiving tons of porn via email. They also ]have web monitoring in place so this was the last piece to their ]puzzle, but... ] ]How does everyone feel about our role playing Big Brother against ]employees? ] ] ]Dan ] ] ]--- ][This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] A Question of Ethics
Dan, Wednesday, February 26, 2003 you wrote: DP I just found out that within a week of starting my my anti spam DP service (delivery choice 2), a company fired an employee for DP receiving tons of porn via email. I suppose somehow they knew he subscribed to it. Otherwise someone just receiving a lot of porn wouldn't be much reason for dismissal. I bet more than 50% of our spam is porn - and if anything I'd say it was growing. I'd say if they fired him for just receiving porn then they better be prepared for a lawsuit. I bet he wishes you had had been deleting it - whether he was innocent or not. DP How does everyone feel about our role playing Big Brother against DP employees? However, firing someone for subscribing to porn and spending company time viewing porn on line seems pretty reasonable to me. After all, theft of time is still theft - might even be worse than stealing money. If I had something to do with getting rid of some sorry so and so that was doing stuff like that to his employer I'd feel pretty good about it. Terry Fritts --- [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus (http://www.declude.com)] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
