RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail
When I made the switch over to SM I had several accounts with abc-xyz@ that didn't work. We solved the problem by creating a aliases named abc-xyz@ that mapped to abc+...@. I understand that you have many of these type accounts to handle, but it could be done with a large alias file (that you should be able to create automatically with a script). Robert From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Robert Grosshandler Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 3:17 PM To: declude.junkmail@declude.com Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail Hi All - We're currently using Imail v2006. We had no need to upgrade and the iMail versions until this year didn't support some features we needed (primariy DomainKey / DKIM signing of outbound mail. ) We'd considered moving to Smartermail, but it didn't (and doesn't) support a feature we needed (blah-x...@igive.com) formatting of incoming mail. Smartermail does (blah+x...@igive.com) and we'd have to get 250,000 folks to change the e-mail address we assigned them. Pricing between the two for our needs is almost the same (Smartermail would be slightly cheaper in the long run). I know that people left iMail in droves over the past several years. Any current info on Ipswitch that should make me go through the pain of a switch to Smartermail? Thanks ahead of time. Rob --- [This E-mail was checked by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail
Thanks. It would have 1,000,000 aliases in it, I can't imagine that would be easy to process. From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Robert Shubert Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 9:55 AM To: declude.junkmail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail When I made the switch over to SM I had several accounts with abc-xyz@ that didn't work. We solved the problem by creating a aliases named abc-xyz@ that mapped to abc+...@. I understand that you have many of these type accounts to handle, but it could be done with a large alias file (that you should be able to create automatically with a script). Robert From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Robert Grosshandler Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 3:17 PM To: declude.junkmail@declude.com Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail Hi All - We're currently using Imail v2006. We had no need to upgrade and the iMail versions until this year didn't support some features we needed (primariy DomainKey / DKIM signing of outbound mail. ) We'd considered moving to Smartermail, but it didn't (and doesn't) support a feature we needed (blah-x...@igive.com) formatting of incoming mail. Smartermail does (blah+x...@igive.com) and we'd have to get 250,000 folks to change the e-mail address we assigned them. Pricing between the two for our needs is almost the same (Smartermail would be slightly cheaper in the long run). I know that people left iMail in droves over the past several years. Any current info on Ipswitch that should make me go through the pain of a switch to Smartermail? Thanks ahead of time. Rob --- [This E-mail was checked by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was scanned by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail
I am not sure about this. So I am opening this up for discussion.. What would happen if you just ran Smartermail as an Outbound email gateway. Wouldn't Domainkeys/Dkim still work without needing to change everyone's email address? Cheers, Eddie From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Robert Grosshandler Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 9:17 AM To: declude.junkmail@declude.com Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail Hi All - We're currently using Imail v2006. We had no need to upgrade and the iMail versions until this year didn't support some features we needed (primariy DomainKey / DKIM signing of outbound mail. ) We'd considered moving to Smartermail, but it didn't (and doesn't) support a feature we needed (blah-x...@igive.com) formatting of incoming mail. Smartermail does (blah+x...@igive.com) and we'd have to get 250,000 folks to change the e-mail address we assigned them. Pricing between the two for our needs is almost the same (Smartermail would be slightly cheaper in the long run). I know that people left iMail in droves over the past several years. Any current info on Ipswitch that should make me go through the pain of a switch to Smartermail? Thanks ahead of time. Rob --- [This E-mail was checked by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail
Release 4.10.42What is blah- vs. blah+ for incoming mails? Are you referring to subfolders/submailboxes that Imail automatically generates? If Imail does DomainKeys and has the mailbox handling you need, why drop it? The next update to Imail will allow dropping connections for certain spam checks (we'll see which ones they are starting with.) I've been asking for that for 10 years - so hopefully I'll be able to reject (some) spam outright during the SMTP conversation. Best Regards Andy Schmidt Tel. +1 201-934-9411, x20 Fax +1 201-934-9206 From: Eddie Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 7:00 AM To: declude.junkmail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail I am not sure about this. So I am opening this up for discussion.. What would happen if you just ran Smartermail as an Outbound email gateway. Wouldn't Domainkeys/Dkim still work without needing to change everyone's email address? Cheers, Eddie From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Robert Grosshandler Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 9:17 AM To: declude.junkmail@declude.com Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail Hi All - We're currently using Imail v2006. We had no need to upgrade and the iMail versions until this year didn't support some features we needed (primariy DomainKey / DKIM signing of outbound mail. ) We'd considered moving to Smartermail, but it didn't (and doesn't) support a feature we needed (blah-x...@igive.com) formatting of incoming mail. Smartermail does (blah+x...@igive.com) and we'd have to get 250,000 folks to change the e-mail address we assigned them. Pricing between the two for our needs is almost the same (Smartermail would be slightly cheaper in the long run). I know that people left iMail in droves over the past several years. Any current info on Ipswitch that should make me go through the pain of a switch to Smartermail? Thanks ahead of time. Rob --- [This E-mail was checked by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was checked by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail
We actually are doing that for outbound mail from our servers (not for our employees), but the catch is, it can't be just a gateway, I don't believe. I think it actually has to process the content of the email in order to be able to sign it correctly, not just the header information. We could keep Imail for incoming mail, and use Smartermail for outgoing mail and employees, but why have two things to manage when you can have one. Thanks. From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Eddie Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 6:01 AM To: declude.junkmail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail I am not sure about this. So I am opening this up for discussion.. What would happen if you just ran Smartermail as an Outbound email gateway. Wouldn't Domainkeys/Dkim still work without needing to change everyone's email address? Cheers, Eddie From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Robert Grosshandler Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 9:17 AM To: declude.junkmail@declude.com Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail Hi All - We're currently using Imail v2006. We had no need to upgrade and the iMail versions until this year didn't support some features we needed (primariy DomainKey / DKIM signing of outbound mail. ) We'd considered moving to Smartermail, but it didn't (and doesn't) support a feature we needed (blah-x...@igive.com) formatting of incoming mail. Smartermail does (blah+x...@igive.com) and we'd have to get 250,000 folks to change the e-mail address we assigned them. Pricing between the two for our needs is almost the same (Smartermail would be slightly cheaper in the long run). I know that people left iMail in droves over the past several years. Any current info on Ipswitch that should make me go through the pain of a switch to Smartermail? Thanks ahead of time. Rob --- [This E-mail was checked by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was checked by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail
Yup, sub folders, but not really. We accept mail to blah-xxx...@member.igive.com as valid, and then process it, without actually putting it into sub-folders (basically, it's bounces from our newsletters to our members). Smartermail would reject that address. We ended up going the iMail route, as it was by far the easiest solution in the short run. Plus, it looks like Smartertools is having their own bad experience with version 7 of Smartermail right now. We do run Smartertrack and we're quite happy with it, so I'm sure Smartertools come through the issues just fine. We're looking forward to rejecting at the connection level, that would be so efficient. Thanks again, Rob From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Andy Schmidt Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 8:48 AM To: declude.junkmail@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail What is blah- vs. blah+ for incoming mails? Are you referring to subfolders/submailboxes that Imail automatically generates? If Imail does DomainKeys and has the mailbox handling you need, why drop it? The next update to Imail will allow dropping connections for certain spam checks (we'll see which ones they are starting with.) I've been asking for that for 10 years - so hopefully I'll be able to reject (some) spam outright during the SMTP conversation. Best Regards Andy Schmidt Tel. +1 201-934-9411, x20 Fax +1 201-934-9206 From: Eddie mailto:epa...@chaminade.edu Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 7:00 AM To: declude.junkmail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail I am not sure about this. So I am opening this up for discussion.. What would happen if you just ran Smartermail as an Outbound email gateway. Wouldn't Domainkeys/Dkim still work without needing to change everyone's email address? Cheers, Eddie From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Robert Grosshandler Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 9:17 AM To: declude.junkmail@declude.com Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail Hi All - We're currently using Imail v2006. We had no need to upgrade and the iMail versions until this year didn't support some features we needed (primariy DomainKey / DKIM signing of outbound mail. ) We'd considered moving to Smartermail, but it didn't (and doesn't) support a feature we needed (blah-x...@igive.com) formatting of incoming mail. Smartermail does (blah+x...@igive.com) and we'd have to get 250,000 folks to change the e-mail address we assigned them. Pricing between the two for our needs is almost the same (Smartermail would be slightly cheaper in the long run). I know that people left iMail in droves over the past several years. Any current info on Ipswitch that should make me go through the pain of a switch to Smartermail? Thanks ahead of time. Rob --- [This E-mail was checked by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was checked by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was checked by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail
I was about to upgrade my SmarterMail server this evening. What kind of issues are they having with 7? - MEC From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Robert Grosshandler Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 1:39 PM To: declude.junkmail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail Yup, sub folders, but not really. We accept mail to blah-xxx...@member.igive.com as valid, and then process it, without actually putting it into sub-folders (basically, it's bounces from our newsletters to our members). Smartermail would reject that address. We ended up going the iMail route, as it was by far the easiest solution in the short run. Plus, it looks like Smartertools is having their own bad experience with version 7 of Smartermail right now. We do run Smartertrack and we're quite happy with it, so I'm sure Smartertools come through the issues just fine. We're looking forward to rejecting at the connection level, that would be so efficient. Thanks again, Rob From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Andy Schmidt Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 8:48 AM To: declude.junkmail@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail What is blah- vs. blah+ for incoming mails? Are you referring to subfolders/submailboxes that Imail automatically generates? If Imail does DomainKeys and has the mailbox handling you need, why drop it? The next update to Imail will allow dropping connections for certain spam checks (we'll see which ones they are starting with.) I've been asking for that for 10 years - so hopefully I'll be able to reject (some) spam outright during the SMTP conversation. Best Regards Andy Schmidt Tel. +1 201-934-9411, x20 Fax +1 201-934-9206 From: Eddie mailto:epa...@chaminade.edu Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 7:00 AM To: declude.junkmail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail I am not sure about this. So I am opening this up for discussion.. What would happen if you just ran Smartermail as an Outbound email gateway. Wouldn't Domainkeys/Dkim still work without needing to change everyone's email address? Cheers, Eddie From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Robert Grosshandler Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 9:17 AM To: declude.junkmail@declude.com Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail Hi All - We're currently using Imail v2006. We had no need to upgrade and the iMail versions until this year didn't support some features we needed (primariy DomainKey / DKIM signing of outbound mail. ) We'd considered moving to Smartermail, but it didn't (and doesn't) support a feature we needed (blah-x...@igive.com) formatting of incoming mail. Smartermail does (blah+x...@igive.com) and we'd have to get 250,000 folks to change the e-mail address we assigned them. Pricing between the two for our needs is almost the same (Smartermail would be slightly cheaper in the long run). I know that people left iMail in droves over the past several years. Any current info on Ipswitch that should make me go through the pain of a switch to Smartermail? Thanks ahead of time. Rob --- [This E-mail was checked by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was checked by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was checked by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was checked by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail
I'm not sure. I was perusing their support forum and saw one, maybe two posts suggesting this version had lots of problems. I didn't dig hard into it. Rob From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Michael Cummins Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 2:01 PM To: declude.junkmail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail I was about to upgrade my SmarterMail server this evening. What kind of issues are they having with 7? - MEC From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Robert Grosshandler Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 1:39 PM To: declude.junkmail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail Yup, sub folders, but not really. We accept mail to blah-xxx...@member.igive.com as valid, and then process it, without actually putting it into sub-folders (basically, it's bounces from our newsletters to our members). Smartermail would reject that address. We ended up going the iMail route, as it was by far the easiest solution in the short run. Plus, it looks like Smartertools is having their own bad experience with version 7 of Smartermail right now. We do run Smartertrack and we're quite happy with it, so I'm sure Smartertools come through the issues just fine. We're looking forward to rejecting at the connection level, that would be so efficient. Thanks again, Rob From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Andy Schmidt Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 8:48 AM To: declude.junkmail@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail What is blah- vs. blah+ for incoming mails? Are you referring to subfolders/submailboxes that Imail automatically generates? If Imail does DomainKeys and has the mailbox handling you need, why drop it? The next update to Imail will allow dropping connections for certain spam checks (we'll see which ones they are starting with.) I've been asking for that for 10 years - so hopefully I'll be able to reject (some) spam outright during the SMTP conversation. Best Regards Andy Schmidt Tel. +1 201-934-9411, x20 Fax +1 201-934-9206 From: Eddie mailto:epa...@chaminade.edu Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 7:00 AM To: declude.junkmail@declude.com Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail I am not sure about this. So I am opening this up for discussion.. What would happen if you just ran Smartermail as an Outbound email gateway. Wouldn't Domainkeys/Dkim still work without needing to change everyone's email address? Cheers, Eddie From: supp...@declude.com [mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Robert Grosshandler Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 9:17 AM To: declude.junkmail@declude.com Subject: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail Hi All - We're currently using Imail v2006. We had no need to upgrade and the iMail versions until this year didn't support some features we needed (primariy DomainKey / DKIM signing of outbound mail. ) We'd considered moving to Smartermail, but it didn't (and doesn't) support a feature we needed (blah-x...@igive.com) formatting of incoming mail. Smartermail does (blah+x...@igive.com) and we'd have to get 250,000 folks to change the e-mail address we assigned them. Pricing between the two for our needs is almost the same (Smartermail would be slightly cheaper in the long run). I know that people left iMail in droves over the past several years. Any current info on Ipswitch that should make me go through the pain of a switch to Smartermail? Thanks ahead of time. Rob --- [This E-mail was checked by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was checked by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was checked by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was checked by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail was checked by Declude] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from
Re: [Declude.JunkMail] Imail vs. Smartermail
We used Imail for over 10 years and currently maintain both IMail and SM. The list of reasons we switched is long. We have been running SM for over a year and are very happy with the switch, worth every minute of time spent making the move. Perfect example. SM has build in reports and access to logs. The other day I needed to look up supposed issue with a clients email. You just open the web interface, go the the log search, and input the string you are looking for. It even will show you not only the log lines but all related traffic to that email transaction. Very slick! I would move again in a minute, SM had too much going for it over IMail. Todd Hunter SecureLawEmail -- Original Message -- From: Robert Grosshandler r...@igive.com Reply-To: declude.junkmail@declude.com Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2010 14:17:22 -0500 Hi All - We're currently using Imail v2006. We had no need to upgrade and the iMail versions until this year didn't support some features we needed (primariy DomainKey / DKIM signing of outbound mail. ) We'd considered moving to Smartermail, but it didn't (and doesn't) support a feature we needed (blah-x...@igive.com) formatting of incoming mail. Smartermail does (blah+x...@igive.com) and we'd have to get 250,000 folks to change the e-mail address we assigned them. Pricing between the two for our needs is almost the same (Smartermail would be slightly cheaper in the long run). I know that people left iMail in droves over the past several years. Any current info on Ipswitch that should make me go through the pain of a switch to Smartermail? Thanks ahead of time. Rob --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. Sent via the WebMail system at smart-mail.net --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to imail...@declude.com, and type unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail. The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
