RE: [Declude.Virus] Who is minding the store
Plus, if they actually integrate our feedback, we'll buy the support agreement in order to download the latest fruits of our labor. :) Yes that is a key point and the reason I always rushed out to renew in the past. I sent this email because now I am not so sure. And I know others that have the same feelings. Renew or not renew. I was told the company would be run in the same high quality manner as before. Clearly that is not the case. Without knowing the coders know their stuff relating to spam it is quite risky to take the chance with such a small company. We knew Scott was the best, who are the people that took over the reins and what credentials do they have. I mean Symantec cannot do it right and I should trust someone who won't participate in their own forums? If Scott would chime in here and say DON'T worry Doug these people know their stuff, you are in good hands. I would order a renewal. But he left. Doug -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 5:59 PM To: Declude.Virus@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Who is minding the store Douglas Cohn wrote: Using this forum for support is certainly less expensive to the company ... unless you're charging for support, then it could be viewed as a losing proposition to assist in free support. I fear this may be the mindset. This view, is, of course, entirely wrong; as you mentioned, our RD feedback is very valuable-worth more than a support contract. Plus, if they actually integrate our feedback, we'll buy the support agreement in order to download the latest fruits of our labor. :) --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.Virus] Who is minding the store
If Scott would chime in here and say DON'T worry Doug these people know their stuff, you are in good hands. I would order a renewal. But he left. I'm not completely gone. :) Everyone does things differently, and I knew when I sold that company that the new owners wouldn't do everything exactly the way that I did. Any new way of operating has its tradeoffs. As you pointed out, one of the changes is that there isn't as much of a company presence on this mailing list as there was before. It used to be that I was a major contributor to this list. However, a lot of what I was posting was stuff that others could have posted (as they are now). What is happening, though, is that the list is being monitored. You would be surprised at how many times one of the owners would be discussing something with me, and then bring up a post from this list. And this definitely includes some A lot of people are asking for Feature X. Right now the company is at a crucial point -- it is seeing how it can manage without my daily involvement. My personal opinion is that they are doing a good job with it. -Scott --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
RE: [Declude.Virus] Who is minding the store
On 2 May 2005 at 9:51, Douglas Cohn wrote: Douglas - I agree with what you are saying. And I miss Scott for his slant on techsupport and philosphy [ Remember Len Scott dialogs? :) ] That said we need to give the new Declude a chance. [That is coming from a guy that has been posting some negativity lately]. They are learning the new turf. And they have some good email admins supporting them (for now) If Declude misses the point competition will but thenm out of business. -Nick Plus, if they actually integrate our feedback, we'll buy the support agreement in order to download the latest fruits of our labor. :) Yes that is a key point and the reason I always rushed out to renew in the past. I sent this email because now I am not so sure. And I know others that have the same feelings. Renew or not renew. I was told the company would be run in the same high quality manner as before. Clearly that is not the case. Without knowing the coders know their stuff relating to spam it is quite risky to take the chance with such a small company. We knew Scott was the best, who are the people that took over the reins and what credentials do they have. I mean Symantec cannot do it right and I should trust someone who won't participate in their own forums? If Scott would chime in here and say DON'T worry Doug these people know their stuff, you are in good hands. I would order a renewal. But he left. Doug -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 5:59 PM To: Declude.Virus@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Who is minding the store Douglas Cohn wrote: Using this forum for support is certainly less expensive to the company ... unless you're charging for support, then it could be viewed as a losing proposition to assist in free support. I fear this may be the mindset. This view, is, of course, entirely wrong; as you mentioned, our RD feedback is very valuable-worth more than a support contract. Plus, if they actually integrate our feedback, we'll buy the support agreement in order to download the latest fruits of our labor. :) --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.Virus] Who is minding the store
Scott, While you have first hand knowledge of the inner-workings at Declude under the new management, many around here have no clue as to whether or not this list is even being monitored, and I think that's what is really at issue. Free and open communication is the best way to go. I think the biggest issue for those around here is the lack of public feedback, though not necessarily the lack of answers. Personally, I'm aware that it is monitored and I was already confident that the feedback here was important to the folks at Declude, but it is a little unsettling for even myself, and certainly others with even less exposure to Declude, to see discussions regarding important matters go unanswered in this forum. For instance, I have no clue as to how best to approach the F-Prot issues that we have been discussing for the last week, and it seems that Declude should have chimed in publically in the first days. Although I know they are listening, I have no clue as to what they are thinking or if any decisions have been made regarding it. For discussions that don't revolve around using the product, these lists are often the best places to discuss such things. A couple of weeks ago I posted about a multiple-processing bug that had been previously reported to Declude through the support channel. Others around here had also indicated that they had seen this, and I have a feeling that it was the combination of all of our reports that helped them conclude that this was a bug that was real and needed to be addressed. I now know that they have figured this bug out, but no one else around here does, and I think that follow up is vital. Without this list the burden falls so much more on the individual and many individuals don't have the patience or time to follow through with the data acquisition or testing required to accurately show what is going on, and of course working within a vacuum isn't the best way either. Without the follow up, it requires more work for us to keep up with what is going on and what we may consider to be important. I think you understand these things. I do realize that the new folks at Declude have taken a pounding from time to time on these lists by people that are uncomfortable with the changes. That unfortunately is a reality of such lists, and I would hope that this doesn't prevent them from participating more in public. Someone will always be unhappy, but you were able to manage this quite effectively and for the good of the product. I would hope that this reality, or other factors, aren't keeping Declude away from participating more in the lists. In the very least, they should set up a page on the site for bugs and plans for when they will be resolved, or what is being done to resolve them (not everything is a bug in Declude of course). This would be very helpful if it was in fact timely. Matt R. Scott Perry wrote: If Scott would chime in here and say DON'T worry Doug these people know their stuff, you are in good hands. I would order a renewal. But he left. I'm not completely gone. :) Everyone does things differently, and I knew when I sold that company that the new owners wouldn't do everything exactly the way that I did. Any new way of operating has its tradeoffs. As you pointed out, one of the changes is that there isn't as much of a company presence on this mailing list as there was before. It used to be that I was a major contributor to this list. However, a lot of what I was posting was stuff that others could have posted (as they are now). What is happening, though, is that the list is being monitored. You would be surprised at how many times one of the owners would be discussing something with me, and then bring up a post from this list. And this definitely includes some A lot of people are asking for Feature X. Right now the company is at a crucial point -- it is seeing how it can manage without my daily involvement. My personal opinion is that they are doing a good job with it. -Scott --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. -- = MailPure custom filters for Declude JunkMail Pro. http://www.mailpure.com/software/ = --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.Virus] Who is minding the store
I sent this email because now I am not so sure. And I know others that have the same feelings. Renew or not renew. I was told the company would be run in the same high quality manner as before. Clearly that is not the case. Without knowing the coders know their stuff relating to spam it is quite risky to take the chance with such a small company. I think every company after Scott will have a problem, because Scott did a job, which no one can do a long time without heartattack ;-) I think Declude makes a good job. The new release is out and it is like in the past, no problems. When there is a problem I mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .com and get a fast response. That is the main thing why I pay for a service agreement. And these things have not changed in my opinion. Uwe - Original Message - From: Nick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Declude.Virus@declude.com Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 7:02 PM Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Who is minding the store On 2 May 2005 at 9:51, Douglas Cohn wrote: Douglas - I agree with what you are saying. And I miss Scott for his slant on techsupport and philosphy [ Remember Len Scott dialogs? :) ] That said we need to give the new Declude a chance. [That is coming from a guy that has been posting some negativity lately]. They are learning the new turf. And they have some good email admins supporting them (for now) If Declude misses the point competition will but thenm out of business. -Nick Plus, if they actually integrate our feedback, we'll buy the support agreement in order to download the latest fruits of our labor. :) Yes that is a key point and the reason I always rushed out to renew in the past. I sent this email because now I am not so sure. And I know others that have the same feelings. Renew or not renew. I was told the company would be run in the same high quality manner as before. Clearly that is not the case. Without knowing the coders know their stuff relating to spam it is quite risky to take the chance with such a small company. We knew Scott was the best, who are the people that took over the reins and what credentials do they have. I mean Symantec cannot do it right and I should trust someone who won't participate in their own forums? If Scott would chime in here and say DON'T worry Doug these people know their stuff, you are in good hands. I would order a renewal. But he left. Doug -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 5:59 PM To: Declude.Virus@declude.com Subject: Re: [Declude.Virus] Who is minding the store Douglas Cohn wrote: Using this forum for support is certainly less expensive to the company ... unless you're charging for support, then it could be viewed as a losing proposition to assist in free support. I fear this may be the mindset. This view, is, of course, entirely wrong; as you mentioned, our RD feedback is very valuable-worth more than a support contract. Plus, if they actually integrate our feedback, we'll buy the support agreement in order to download the latest fruits of our labor. :) --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
[Declude.Virus] Who is minding the store
What I find very odd is where is declude technical participation on this list? Since Scott left I see no SOLID ANSWERS to many questions. Answers that often came from Scott. I surely understand that there are many very skilled programmers, technicians and network managers that are all communicating on this forum BUT is simply not the same without Scott or his replacement. Not the same in a very important sense though. It seems to me that declude is no longer learning anything from this forum and while it may serve the purpose for some users I fear that the information being posted here no longer has that Perry seal of approval. What I mean by that is if someone said something that was simply wrong Scott would debate the response and show why it was wrong. Since, as you all know, many posters are extremely skilled technicians and their answers are taken as fact and many times they are fact. But it only requires one piece of misinformation to wreck a server So again I ask where is declude and why are they not participating in this forum. I have this feeling in my gut that EVERYTHING that is done is based on the direct return. While that is completely understandable in any business venture decisions like this should be thought about very carefully. While it may appear like a loss to pay programmers and skilled support people to read through every email and debate the responses the final outcome should result in the same outcome Scott got from it. That is a more refined product that works better and is field tested and field proven. PLUS the reality that many people used these forums as their sole route to support. Using this forum for support is certainly less expensive to the company and more conducive to better results since 2 heads are better than one and so on (3 are better than 2). For a second just now I got the feeling that maybe they do not want to give away support since it is NOT required to have an active support contract to be on this list. If that is the reason than it is just another reason to look for another company for Spam and Virus protection on my mail server. The software was purchased originally and forum support is almost always available to all users especially those without support contracts. The support contract should add access to updates and direct phone support. Scott handed the new owners a built in RD Department full of many very skilled professionals willing to assist at no charge so they can get the best product available. From what I see no effort has been made to make use of it and every day that goes by more key people are dropping off and losing faith in declude. In the end everyone suffers. This should have been looked at as one of the most valuable support resources included in the deal and ignoring it is plain dumb (sorry but there is no better word). How can I have any faith in declude's stability going forward? Considering this what do the rest of you have to say? I am NOT saying declude software is not doing a good job right now since I am running 1.82 but after 1.82 what will there be? Who is writing the code and why would any of us trust that code? If they would communicate on the list we could see what we are dealing with and if they are not up to snuff YET they can continue communicating and probably get there. If not then they were not suited for the job anyway and again Declude as a company has used this forum to improve their company. I would like to see declude answer this post on the list and of course without starting an argument since that is the furthest thing from my mind. While I may not be overjoyed in losing Scott from this list I really do NOT KNOW how things stand at this company. That is common for many companies but declude was different which made it an Excellent company to do business with. I do not believe that the only way to get that excellence is by getting Scott back. I believe that they can follow that formula and attain the same success in excellent product development and support. JUST MY TWO CENTS, what are your thoughts on this very important, very appropriate subject. ***NOTE: PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG. I AM QUITE AWARE I MAY BE COMPLETELY LOST AND HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. IF THAT IS TRUE PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE I AM WRONG. I am a big boy and very willing to admit being wrong if I a have stated anything that is false. Regards, Doug --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re: [Declude.Virus] Who is minding the store
Douglas Cohn wrote: Using this forum for support is certainly less expensive to the company ... unless you're charging for support, then it could be viewed as a losing proposition to assist in free support. I fear this may be the mindset. This view, is, of course, entirely wrong; as you mentioned, our RD feedback is very valuable-worth more than a support contract. Plus, if they actually integrate our feedback, we'll buy the support agreement in order to download the latest fruits of our labor. :) --- This E-mail came from the Declude.Virus mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type unsubscribe Declude.Virus.The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
