Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: More time for improvements...
Bernhard Dippold wrote: I don't know if any of the other icons need some more work, but we should be able to finish this task until next week. [snip] Take your time! Your family and friends are more important than LibO (perhaps you can tell them about this community and the product ;-) ). Come back later - there will still be enough to be done... Hi Bernhard, * according to http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan#3.3.1_release the RC for 3.3.1 will be tagged next Monday, and I'll be at FOSDEM all weekend - so for any artwork to make it into that release, I'd need it by tomorrow 18:00 UTC. Is that possible/acceptable? I'd then volunteer to extract the stuff into pngs (assuming proper selection areas are still in place), and split stuff up into individual files, according to this workflow: pixelpushercast.blip.tv/file/1075329/ (with a nice script to convert those files into bitmaps here: http://ladish.org/browser/art/render-bitmaps.rb) (so I'd ask for a short moratorium, and then suggest continue working on separate files going forward - since it really relieves a lot of the pain I experience when updating artwork) Cheers, -- Thorsten -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Design Team Kick-Off Step 2: Current Status of Work and Collaboration
Hi all! Am Dienstag, den 01.02.2011, 01:11 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: Christoph Noack schrieb: [...] Current Status of Work and Collaboration: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Kick-Off/CurrentWorkStatus Thank you very much for summing up what has already been done (more than I thought of) showing us the way we want to go on. Some - maybe dumb - questions, since I've seen that we had roughly 250 visits on the wiki page above. Is there anything that requires clarification? Is it sufficient to jump-start with the next topics, or do you require some more information? I'm just wondering ... it's so quiet at the moment ;-) Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-design] Re: Design Team Kick-Off Step 2: Current Status of Work and Collaboration
Hi Christoph, On Tuesday, 1 February, 2011 at 6:44 PM, Christoph Noack wrote: Hi all! Is there anything that requires clarification? Is it sufficient to jump-start with the next topics, or do you require some more information? I'm just wondering ... it's so quiet at the moment ;-) Cheers, Christoph Looks clear and concise to me. I think the Kick-Off action was a great idea and a good way to introduce the Design Team. I´m just waiting the adequate step to introduce myself since this one doesn´t require any action. That´s probably the reason everyone is so quiet... Cheers, Miguel B. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Proposal for the Cross-Reference dialog
Hi Björn! On 30-01-2011 13:47, Björn Balazs wrote: First of all: Thank you - great work! Your mocks point us to the unsolved fundations I wanted to work on today, but unfortunately won't come to. But I will spend a couple of hours in a train tomorrow, so I am optimistic I get to some results then. The fundations we need to understand, before we can actually find a really good interface solution is a clustering of the different types of fields. You have done the clustering by New and Existing. I am not 100% convinced this is the best clustering, because it is too general. Well, basically I understand there are 2 general actions related to fields from the user point of view: create and use them. It's my first thinking when needing a reference or other meta information about the document that I'm working. When you need to create a field, there are different ways to achieve this depending of the type field. When you need to use a field, you *know* that it already exist, so its an automatic choice to avoid the first option set a new field. And for any type of field you wanna to insert, it's the same workflow: you must 1. find the field, 2. choose how display the field information. I would like to find someting between perhaps 5 to 10 (ideal would be 7 - remember the limitations in the human short term memory) categories, the user can decide in the first step. Well, the limitation of 7 rememberable of the human short term memory is a controversial issue... It seems to depend of context and other circumstantial factors. If it is possible to limit the choice to a minor amount of possibilities, keeping it clear, why not do it? :/ Even more if you think in the future additions of new fields... Keeping the first step easy helps to make the next steps clearer. Each presenting again 5 to 10 fields that in the next step can be configured (would give us room for up to 100 different types of fields we can add to LibO, so making this a sustainable solution for whatever kind of fields will be added in the future). My main problem here is, that I do not understand all types of fields available - which would be very helpful if trying to find a decent clustering... Yeah, this is a problem to me too. But I try to think in a field just how an information. The user knows what wants and knows the computer has or can be have this information. The point is how to say to the computer: 1. which information you want, 2. what to do with this information. 1. Which information you want? - I want a information the computer already knows or I want [can to use] a new information 2. What to do with this information? - I want to show it in this or other way. From this point of view (Which? What?) is possible that the approach of Create/Use (What?) and then choose the field type (Which?) seems to be reversed, but if you perceive that some information can't be create in a dialog (like a paragraph per example), reversing them is a most efficient way to present these questions. Additionally we should introduce some comfort functionallity like a filter mechanism, recently used or perhaps even favorite fields for quick retrival of the wanted fields. For sure its a great idea. Filtering by type or pattern matching, auto-complete the search, recently used shortcuts already in the first step (saving the last inputs for all steps), and grouping references are good ways to go! :D But we will need a big support from the developers and would be great have their help to know all the current possibilities. Summing it up: Version 2 is much better than version 1, but still leaves room for further improvement. I'd like to hear more opinions about it. I still think having a simple choice in the first step is better. :/ But of couse, my thinking is very much based in the *bad* only way I've imagined to display the Step 1 in the version 2. I hope we can find a better way. Ok, more - including some mocks and a suggestion for a clustering - hopefully tomorrow. We are doing big steps to the right direction. Its good when the doubts come up in the beginning! See you, Björn! :) ~Paulo -- Paulo José O. Amaro Computer Science Student Federal University of São João del-Rei WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior Blogger / casatwain.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress(ing) Templates
Hi Kevin, I had attempted a long time ago a similar project for OOo before I became overwhelmed by other commitments and had to drop the topic. One minor issue I met with was finding templates that satisfied the design community while satisfying user expectations. What I mean is, users (according to the design community) often make horrible presentations; however, users expect certain features to be available in their design templates. Very slightly off-topic I think we could use a LibreOffice Impress template that could be very helpful for the community to make LibO presentations. Features could include using the paper tab (the top right of the logo) as bullets at the primary level, the LibO logo perhaps in the top left and then of course some nice and simple design background. (These are just suggestions you can do whatever you like, of course). Its not explicitly related to your topic but it could be really helpful for branding and the like if you have the time. Cheers, Jaron 2011/1/31 Paulo José paul...@gmail.com It's a great idea! I think some steps to start this should be: 1. Choose some main topics to cover with the templates, for all types of presentation: school, enterprise, marketing... 2. Look for the real presentations in each topics. There are many sites of slide sharing, when you can find the most rated presentations. I gives the feeling of what is needed to achieve in each template. 3. Work hard to create the best templates in a office suite ever! :D Count with me, ~Paulo I ever start with the Ubuntu one... :P On 31-01-2011 01:45, Kevin Soviero wrote: As I am sure most of you have noticed by now, the default set of templates from OOo Impress is terrible. I was wondering if I were to make a set (lets say 10 - 20) of really high quality templates for Impress, if we could get them included by default? -- Paulo José O. Amaro Computer Science Student Federal University of São João del-Rei WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior Blogger / casatwain.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.orgdesign%2bh...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-design] Proposal for Saving Information icons on Status Bar
Hello everybody! Some days ago, Christoph suggested me [1] to give a try to an already knew issue, related to icons used to show saving information on the status bar. The current icon shows an exclamation mark on a document when the document have not saved changes, and some people think may be better ways to represent this status. Looking up the past discussions about this issue to understand what was done, I found some interesting links [2] [3]. So, based on what was discussed, I tried to create new icons to this behavior, based on the initial mimetype icons style. I keep two version, since the current icon is 14px tall, but a source [4] says the status bar icons must be 11px tall. I used some different (*) character to follow the suggestion of some people. Versions on 16x14px: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-16x14px.svg Versions on 14x11px: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-14x11px.svg I hope it can be useful in some way. :) Best regards, ~Paulo [1] Small Icon Artwork Project (was: Re: [libreoffice-design] KickingOff the LibreOffice Design Team) http://go.mail-archive.com/ZXUvilyqV8RdwiU-erOUILtRjfA [2] [Visual Design] Request for Icon Artwork (was: Re: [Libreoffice] [UX] LO status bar annoyances) http://www.mail-archive.com/design@libreoffice.org/msg00087.html [3] HackWeek – Minor polish http://kohei.us/2009/07/27/hackweek-minor-polish/ [4] New feature icons: Zoom Scaling Slider http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_icons_zoomslider.html#iconszoom -- Paulo José O. Amaro Computer Science Student Federal University of São João del-Rei WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior Blogger / casatwain.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Proposal for Saving Information icons on Status Bar
Hi Paulo, It looks like a good start. I will give you more feedback later, (I am busy at work). Cheers, Jaron 2011/2/1 Paulo José paul...@gmail.com Hello everybody! Some days ago, Christoph suggested me [1] to give a try to an already knew issue, related to icons used to show saving information on the status bar. The current icon shows an exclamation mark on a document when the document have not saved changes, and some people think may be better ways to represent this status. Looking up the past discussions about this issue to understand what was done, I found some interesting links [2] [3]. So, based on what was discussed, I tried to create new icons to this behavior, based on the initial mimetype icons style. I keep two version, since the current icon is 14px tall, but a source [4] says the status bar icons must be 11px tall. I used some different (*) character to follow the suggestion of some people. Versions on 16x14px: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-16x14px.svg Versions on 14x11px: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Status-bar-icons-saved-file-14x11px.svg I hope it can be useful in some way. :) Best regards, ~Paulo [1] Small Icon Artwork Project (was: Re: [libreoffice-design] Kicking Off the LibreOffice Design Team) http://go.mail-archive.com/ZXUvilyqV8RdwiU-erOUILtRjfA [2] [Visual Design] Request for Icon Artwork (was: Re: [Libreoffice] [UX] LO status bar annoyances) http://www.mail-archive.com/design@libreoffice.org/msg00087.html [3] HackWeek – Minor polish http://kohei.us/2009/07/27/hackweek-minor-polish/ [4] New feature icons: Zoom Scaling Slider http://ui.openoffice.org/VisualDesign/OOo_icons_zoomslider.html#iconszoom -- Paulo José O. Amaro Computer Science Student Federal University of São João del-Rei WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior Blogger / casatwain.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.orgdesign%2bh...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Proposal for the Cross-Reference dialog
Hi Paolo, Am Montag, 31. Januar 2011, 23:20:18 schrieb Paulo José: Hi Björn! On 30-01-2011 13:47, Björn Balazs wrote: First of all: Thank you - great work! Your mocks point us to the unsolved fundations I wanted to work on today, but unfortunately won't come to. But I will spend a couple of hours in a train tomorrow, so I am optimistic I get to some results then. The fundations we need to understand, before we can actually find a really good interface solution is a clustering of the different types of fields. You have done the clustering by New and Existing. I am not 100% convinced this is the best clustering, because it is too general. Well, basically I understand there are 2 general actions related to fields from the user point of view: create and use them. It's my first thinking when needing a reference or other meta information about the document that I'm working. I agree. This is the very basic differentiation. I followed that in the mindmap. But I alos think this is not the most relevant differentiation for about 99% of the use-cases. Because you can only create References, Bookmarks (and I guess variables and stuff I do not yet understand). Nearly no users - except from power users - will use this features. So this functionallity needs to be there but should step a little to the back. When you need to create a field, there are different ways to achieve this depending of the type field. When you need to use a field, you *know* that it already exist, so its an automatic choice to avoid the first option set a new field. And for any type of field you wanna to insert, it's the same workflow: you must 1. find the field, 2. choose how display the field information. It is problematic that there are s many fields. This makes it hard to find the field you want. This is way I tried to do some categorizastion of the fields. I would like to find someting between perhaps 5 to 10 (ideal would be 7 - remember the limitations in the human short term memory) categories, the user can decide in the first step. Well, the limitation of 7 rememberable of the human short term memory is a controversial issue... It seems to depend of context and other circumstantial factors. It it one of the foundations of cognitive psychologiy. If you should have any information that I do not have, please give it to me! You can of course use methods of chunking to extend this information, but the number of 7+-2 simply is the capacity of your short term memory. No discussions I know of :) (Ok, can be less, e.g. when you drunk a lot of alcohol - but not talking about any clinical aspects) If it is possible to limit the choice to a minor amount of possibilities, keeping it clear, why not do it? :/ Even more if you think in the future additions of new fields... Keeping the first step easy helps to make the next steps clearer. If you take too few categories, the tree gets very deep. This is not good either. Each presenting again 5 to 10 fields that in the next step can be configured (would give us room for up to 100 different types of fields we can add to LibO, so making this a sustainable solution for whatever kind of fields will be added in the future). My main problem here is, that I do not understand all types of fields available - which would be very helpful if trying to find a decent clustering... Yeah, this is a problem to me too. But I try to think in a field just how an information. I suggest to rethink the whole dialogue. And we can only find the best solution if we understand what users do in here and what they use the fields for. I think the following is true, but I am not sure that is all: The user knows what wants and knows the computer has or can be have this information. The point is how to say to the computer: 1. which information you want, 2. what to do with this information. 1. Which information you want? - I want a information the computer already knows or I want [can to use] a new information 2. What to do with this information? - I want to show it in this or other way. From this point of view (Which? What?) is possible that the approach of Create/Use (What?) and then choose the field type (Which?) seems to be reversed, but if you perceive that some information can't be create in a dialog (like a paragraph per example), reversing them is a most efficient way to present these questions. see above. Additionally we should introduce some comfort functionallity like a filter mechanism, recently used or perhaps even favorite fields for quick retrival of the wanted fields. For sure its a great idea. Filtering by type or pattern matching, auto-complete the search, recently used shortcuts already in the first step (saving the last inputs for all steps), and grouping references are good ways to go! :D But we will need a big support from the developers and would be great have their help to
Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress(ing) Templates
Hi Jaron! Am Dienstag, den 01.02.2011, 16:09 -0500 schrieb Jaron Kuppers: Christoph, I must have completely missed that in your work items list... I even explicitly looked for it... go figure. Glad you set me straight. :-) Just one small correction, it's our work items list ;-))) If you need any help, let me know! Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Impress(ing) Templates
Alright, How about we carve template design up into sections, one (or more) for each of us... For example, I am good at making the background (not just cause its easy ;)), and I can coordinate colors. We need someone to do the technical stuff (title placement, etc...) , and we need to come up with the subjects to base the templates on. Your list is a very good start though... Any other jobs you can think of? On 01/31/2011 08:43 PM, Paulo José wrote: It's a great idea! I think some steps to start this should be: 1. Choose some main topics to cover with the templates, for all types of presentation: school, enterprise, marketing... 2. Look for the real presentations in each topics. There are many sites of slide sharing, when you can find the most rated presentations. I gives the feeling of what is needed to achieve in each template. 3. Work hard to create the best templates in a office suite ever! :D Count with me, ~Paulo I ever start with the Ubuntu one... :P On 31-01-2011 01:45, Kevin Soviero wrote: As I am sure most of you have noticed by now, the default set of templates from OOo Impress is terrible. I was wondering if I were to make a set (lets say 10 - 20) of really high quality templates for Impress, if we could get them included by default? -- Kevin Soviero Email: ksovi...@gmail.com mailto:ksovi...@gmail.com Phone: (512) 672-9641 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!
Hi Thorsten, all, Thorsten Behrens schrieb: Bernhard Dippold wrote: I don't know if any of the other icons need some more work, but we should be able to finish this task until next week. [snip] according to http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleasePlan#3.3.1_release the RC for 3.3.1 will be tagged next Monday, and I'll be at FOSDEM all weekend - so for any artwork to make it into that release, I'd need it by tomorrow 18:00 UTC. Is that possible/acceptable? It's short, but we already did know that we can't wait several weeks, so it's okay, I think. Paulo did a great job in creating and polishing the icons. What I know is missing: Include Jaron's gear wheels in Paulo's source - I'm going to do that right now. If nobody objects, we should skip the proposed phase of comparing alternative proposals - time is short again... I'll upload the source to the wiki and send the link here when I'm ready. Any other modifications needed? I'd then volunteer to extract the stuff into pngs (assuming proper selection areas are still in place), and split stuff up into individual files, according to this workflow: pixelpushercast.blip.tv/file/1075329/ (with a nice script to convert those files into bitmaps here: http://ladish.org/browser/art/render-bitmaps.rb) Thanks for taking this task! (so I'd ask for a short moratorium, and then suggest continue working on separate files going forward - since it really relieves a lot of the pain I experience when updating artwork) Do you want us to work on single source files for each icon? Or is this meant to leave this version as final and use a new file for every update? Sorry - sometimes my English is not good enough to understand what you mean. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Banner for FOSDEM II
Bernhard Dippold schrieb: [...] As Thorsten requested the final version of the MimeType icons ready for Friday too, I'm sorry that I think this task is more urgent... oops... Thorsten's deadline is tomorrow already. So there might be some time on Thursday... (perhaps - who know what important topics need our hands ;-) ) Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!
Hi Christoph eagle eye ;-), Christoph Noack schrieb: Hi Bernhard, just a short wh concerning the icons. I noticed that the large(er) template icons of Impress feature a darker rip-off line - please have a look: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_9MZR46ZEuS8/TURcYGZPRkI/AuE/si2R_93DT_M/s1600/New256pxIcons.png Could you please correct this as well? Sorry for noticing this a bit late... Great that you found it! The gradient behind the inner surface was too dark - creating not only the darker rip-off line, but a darker inner border as well. Corrected :-) Best regards Bernhard PS: Still working on the gear wheel... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!
Bernhard Dippold schrieb: [...] PS: Still working on the gear wheel... And that's not too easy... Please have a look: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Macro_icons.png Do you think they are okay in comparable in quality? Which one should we propose to include in LibreOffice 3.3.1? As part of our collaborative work I'd like to include Jaron's. Any objections? I integrated Jaron's Macro icons and the lighter Impress template gradient in this source file: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-pre_final.svg If we are okay with the icons in this file, they will be the ones to hand over to Thorsten tomorrow. So please comment all: Critics, approval, what ever else: Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Logo proposal without TDF line
Hi, :-) On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 06:17, Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Non-TDF_logos_right_aligned.png (without the white space border indication by a colored background) These are the ones I prefer, personally. David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!
Hi Bernhard, On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at wrote: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Macro_icons.png Do you think they are okay in comparable in quality? I think the Jaron gear works better at the 16px but Paulo's gear looks better at the 128px size. Which one should we propose to include in LibreOffice 3.3.1? As part of our collaborative work I'd like to include Jaron's. If you honestly think Paulo's gear is better don't include my change. I would rather the better icon be shipped out. My feelings won't be hurt. :-) I integrated Jaron's Macro icons and the lighter Impress template gradient in this source file: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-pre_final.svg If we are okay with the icons in this file, they will be the ones to hand over to Thorsten tomorrow. So please comment all: Critics, approval, what ever else: In general the icons look great! My five dislikes are: (by the way it started at 2 and then I got really critical) 1) Calc 128px icon: The middle column at the top row is a little light. 2) Calc 128px icon: The lines on the bar graph next to the orange bar contrast too much 3) Draw 16px icon: I liked it better in a previous iteration where the triangle was the same equilateral triangle as in the other icons 4) Impress 128px icon: The shadow could be a little bit darker I think... (opacity changed to ~80) 5) HTML/Web 16px icon: If you take the 32px World and shrink it to the 16px world size and then change the web to 0.5 px width you get a nicer icon.* So really just nit-picky complaints. Like I said earlier, the icons look great! Everyone did such a good job! And thanks Bernhard for taking care of this at the last minute! Cheers, Jaron * I could see someone arguing against having such a small feature on the icon but I think the color matched better to the other icons and you can tell that at least there is something on the circle (i.e. it looks more like a globe) than simply a plain colored circle. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-design] lost in the archives
Hi, Sorry for the inconvenience but there was some early artwork for a DVD jewel case cover on the wiki and I just can't seem to fish the reference out of the mail archives. Does anyone have that URL. Thanks in advance for your help, Drew -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Breaking out of the box (applications versus objects)
On Saturday 29 Jan 2011 10:15:13 Christoph Noack wrote: Hi Greg, although some others already replied, I'd like to start with a fresh reply :-) Am Freitag, den 28.01.2011, 00:44 + schrieb noh.way.jose: I'm new to this community, so please forgive me if the topic I'd like to discuss has already been aired. So, a warm welcome to this community! Thanks, Christoph and all who have taken the time to reply. It's great to see such a vibrant community. Reminds me of the Open Mapping community :o) [...] Instead of applications, let's have a document, a variety of choices of rendering the document (print, screen, presentation, web, edit, collaborative edit, c.) and tools. The tools can still be categorised, but not as they are in applications, where the application is a hard boundary. The tools here could all be used, irrespective of the presentation mechanism. Categorisation of the tools need only be done as a means to support user tasks, perhaps along multiple dimensions, using tags. This proposal means only having to develop a tool once and allowing the concurrent availability of tools that the artificial applications boundaries would normally exclude. For example, DTP tools, such as layout grids and text flow, which could be used alongside more traditional word processing tools in documents, presentations and other formats. Where to start? I read some deeper thoughts within your mails, but at the end the question is, who benefits in what way? Some thoughts: * Marketing: StarOffice / OpenOffice.org has been made more single application like, since people demanded to have single applications like Word, Excel, ... you still see many problems where it is unclear whether we talk about LibreOffic, or e.g. Writer. (By the way, something we have to decide on later). In the past, there was just StarOffice and different document types. I guess you could consider my proposition as an extrapolation of one or both of: - OLE/COM/DCOM in an application environment, where I always felt something approximating my proposition was the goal but the implementation was clunky and artificial. - A paper document, where I am largely unrestricted by the tools. I can use a pencil, pen, paint, fuzzy felt, typewriter, crayons, c. On the whole, one tool doesn't preclude the use of others. No one says, this paper can only be used for drafting, so you can only use these special pens that only draw lines and arcs - no crayons or freehand curves allowed! * Technology / Implementation: Having a common base for handling documents helps to save effort - LibO is already quite good when it comes to re-using components. Funnily, this had been a matter of limiting effort for the few guys working for StarDivision a few years ago. The downside: less specialized handling for the user's tasks ... which makes things less efficient. One of the things that might need improvement are for example sharing some spreadsheet/table code between Writer/Calc/Impress. I have to make the code reuse versus specialisation call several time a week as a usability consultant working on improving the usability of enterprise software products (no names). It's a valid concern but I'd say that generally interaction consistency, reduction of potential points of divergence of behaviour and implementation efficiency are compelling reasons to take this approach. Concerns about specialisation can be handled by extending the base tool classes to introduce any required contextual subtleties. Still one tool but added capability for more nuanced application, according to context. * Environment: The industry relies on certain decisions made in the past. So changes in how documents are presented / handled will also have impact on the document format ... this is (we know that from political stuff) quite hard to handle :-) I agree * Usability: People still stick to what they learn when they are small ... these real physical objects and their behavior are the basis for (later) exploring computers and their enhanced capabilities. And, although the ability of computers gained a lot during the past years, the people still do have the same mental capabilities (physiological stuff) - any change has to consider that (will it be focusing on the tool, or the work). As you might guess, I'd claim that having a richer palette of tools and capability without hard artificial boundaries improves ease of use, providing the tools address genuine use cases accurately and are well designed to fulfil those use cases. Clearly there are affinities of tool sets to specific user tasks, which roughly map to the traditional office product split but this categorisation is a generic oversimplification of
[libreoffice-design] DVD Label for use at SCALE 9x
Howdy, After starting with the great work done by the LibreOfficeBox team and a few iterations with folks on the US mailing list we would submit this as the DVD label art for the disc which will be used at SCALE 9x. You will find a png image for review here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/a/a5/Dvd-label-scale9x_3.png The svg file will be uploaded a little later. We hope this will meet with the design teams approval. Thanks Drew -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Logo proposal without TDF line
On Tue, 2011-02-01 at 23:13 +0100, Christoph Noack wrote: Hi Bernhard, hi all! Thanks a lot (!) for caring about these icons :-) Am Montag, den 31.01.2011, 23:17 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: David Nelson schrieb: The text underneath LibreOffice extends beyond the word LibreOffice on the right. It doesn't look well-aligned to me. Could you shift it leftwards maybe? [...] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Non-TDF_logos_right_aligned.png (without the white space border indication by a colored background) http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Non-TDF_logos.png All: Which version do you like better? Since it is very hard to balance all these objects (and you already did a very good job), I'd like to propose to keep only the text. In this case the right aligned versions, right side (the lower ones) look best - in my opinion. My reasons: * It already conveys the important message LibreOffice * It looks a bit more balanced and it might be more versatile * In the past, the Document Symbol had been considered (by people in the community) to belong to TDF instead of LibreOffice - if we start the Community Branding Process, we might keep it for TDF Of course, I'll miss the document symbol ... for other reasons. Hello Christoph, Actually please leave the icon, so that the person using the community logo can make the call of whether text only makes sense for a given usage - which I would propose is most likely to be only when needing to go small. When it fits, inclusion of the icon, IMO, makes for a better overall logo. There is not a great deal of time pressure to coming up with a TDF icon graphic is there? Thanks Drew -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] lost in the archives
On Tue, 2011-02-01 at 22:12 -0600, Ron Faile wrote: Try this wiki search: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/index.php?title=Special:Searchsearch=dvdfulltext=Searchns6=1redirs=1 Ron thanks -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
