Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Cover design for printed LibreOffice user guides
On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 10:45 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: > > I don't think the gray (white with high transparency?) box at the bottom > is an improvement. Even though the blue graphic might look "lurid" to > me, IMO the design looks better overall without the gray box. The larger > type for the guide name is good, though possibly a tad too large. > > Could you make the little graphics available, so I can play around with > variations to this design myself? No need to upload all the xcf's at > this point; I can use the Getting Started one as a base. Absolutely. Check the writer guide draft once more - if you are still seeing a rectangle then be sure to clear your cache. http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Lib0WriterGuideSimple.png I've put the .xcf file with the last changes and the PNG files I created for these into a zip file here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:User-guide-covers-bits.zip Let's see only issue might be fonts, the title is using the M+ 2p Super Bold font. (Think I got that name right) Best wishes, //drew -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Cover design for printed LibreOffice user guides
On Wed, 2011-06-22 at 18:39 -0400, drew wrote: > On Wed, 2011-06-22 at 18:05 -0400, drew wrote: > > On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 07:15 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: > > > > > And here is a slight variation of the Writer Guide cover then, with an > > eye to your comments: > > > > Pushed one last update to this file, for today > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Lib0WriterGuideSimple.png > > Slight change to the inset area.. I don't think the gray (white with high transparency?) box at the bottom is an improvement. Even though the blue graphic might look "lurid" to me, IMO the design looks better overall without the gray box. The larger type for the guide name is good, though possibly a tad too large. Could you make the little graphics available, so I can play around with variations to this design myself? No need to upload all the xcf's at this point; I can use the Getting Started one as a base. Thanks! --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Cover design for printed LibreOffice user guides
On Wed, 2011-06-22 at 18:05 -0400, drew wrote: > On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 07:15 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: > > And here is a slight variation of the Writer Guide cover then, with an > eye to your comments: > Pushed one last update to this file, for today http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Lib0WriterGuideSimple.png Slight change to the inset area.. Ciao, //drew -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Cover design for printed LibreOffice user guides
On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 07:15 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: > On Wed, 2011-06-22 at 16:32 -0400, drew wrote: > > On Wed, 2011-06-22 at 04:03 -0400, drew wrote: > > > On Thu, 2011-06-16 at 12:19 +0200, Bernhard Dippold wrote: > > > > Hi Jean, all, > > > > > > > > Jean Hollis Weber schrieb: > > > > > On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 08:14 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: > > > > >> On Sat, 2011-05-21 at 16:35 +0200, Bernhard Dippold wrote: > > > > >>> [...] > > > > > A very simple start: > > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:GettingStartedGuideFrontCoverSimple.png > > > > > > Note I dropped in a sub-title, in this case for Chapter 1. I did not use > > > a very high compression setting on the PNG file, as this is for an > > > example. > > > > > > Jean had asked for a GIMP compatible file and the wiki will not > > > accept .xcf files, so wrapped that in a zip file, here: > > > > > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:GettingStartedGuideFrontCoverSimple.zip > > > > > > As I say - it is quite simple. > > > > > > > Staying with the KISS principle: > > > > Took the simple file, above, as the base, then adorning with graphical > > element for the specific guide. > > > > With the graphic would go where the sub-title is in the example. > > > > Sound reasonable? > > > > Alright - I see 4 guides that need covers. > > > > Getting Started > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Lib0GettingStartedGuideSimple.png > > > > Writer > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Lib0WriterGuideSimple.png > > > > Calc > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Lib0CalcGuideSimple.png > > > > Math > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Lib0MathGuideSimple.png > > > > Did not push the source files for the moment, but they are separate > > files also. > > > > Thanks it for now, > > > Thanks, Drew! Great start. BTW, Impress and Draw guides are coming > soon. ;-) > > Comments: > (1) I like the icon-like symbols below the name of the guide, although > the one for Writer seems a bit lurid with the blue against the green > background. > (2) I would prefer the name of the guide to be a lot larger, though > perhaps that's not necessary with the symbols. Will be interested to > hear others' reactions. > (3) I don't envision using these as title pages on individual published > chapters, but only on covers of compiled books. However, a lower-res > (and thus much smaller file size) version might work for chapters. Yes - I thought about the lower res version for chapters - I would generate each of the different graphics at say 90dpi and the the final at same, and a much higher compression rate on the final. > Something for the docs team to think about! And here is a slight variation of the Writer Guide cover then, with an eye to your comments: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Lib0WriterGuideSimple.png //drew -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] The future of design suggestions
Hi Steve On Thu, 2011-06-23 at 06:58 +1200, Steve Edmonds wrote: > Hi Planas. > > On 22/06/11 10:05 AM, planas wrote: > > Hi all, > > On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 23:09 +0200, Bernhard Dippold wrote: > > > >> Hi Björn, all > >> > >> Björn Balazs schrieb: > >>> Hi all, > >>> > >>> I am a little unsatisfied with the amount of individual threads going into > >>> the direction of: "We need a new interface for LibreOffice - and it needs > >>> to > >>> look linke this...". > >> For me they show the high interest of our team members in the UI design > >> area. But you're totally right: We need to integrate the different > >> proposals in general directions for UI improvements. > >>> This is a Free Software Project. As a design team, we will not need to > >>> convince ourselves about this need to change the GUI (we all agree on > >>> that), > >>> we will need to convince the people actually doing (and financing) it - > >>> the > >>> developers and the companies paying them. > >> Even if a large group of developers are paid by companies, there is > >> another group coding on their own. > >> > >> What we need are at least a few developers interested in UI design. If > >> we can convince them, our ideas will become code and finally find their > >> way into the product. > >> > >> But if we can convince more than just a few developers by showing the > >> needs our users to the entire community, this would get more developers > >> interested and involved... > >>> [... we should never argue about personal opinions ...] > >>> > >>> So, how can we make this more productive? > >>> > >>> Ideas are good, visualisations are even better. So let us find a way to > >>> not > >>> comment on these, but to collect them with the goal of easy comparision > >>> with > >>> eachother. A gallary of ideas and visualisations of the future LibO. > >> A gallery is great - but I'd rather think of a gallery of single UI > >> improvements (with visualizations from different mockups) than of a > >> gallery of the different mockups. > >> > >> If several mockups contain sidepanes, similar context menus or context > >> sensitive tools, these should be combined as features, based on user > >> data (already existing or new to be reached for) and expert statements, > >> decided on their positive/negative impacts and recommended for > >> implementation based on a specification containing all the necessary > >> information for the developers. > >>> We should then try to extract the dimensions these ideas differ on. > >>> Knowing > >>> these we can then again use user-centric methodologies to have the users > >>> decide about what they like. > >> Of course user feedback is the most important quality measurement for UI > >> modifications. But based on the user's likings it stays to us to decide > >> which feature should be implemented in which way: > >> > >> There are more than design aspects to consider (marketing, present user > >> base, documentation, coding effort, interdependency with other areas of > >> the product ...), users can't have in mind. > >>> With this data we will have much less trouble to convince the > >>> code-sponsors > >>> to go into a certain direction. > >> That's true - real user data are a very good argument to convince > >> marketing and development ... > >>> So - the main point I am argueing for is a gallery of interface ideas. > >>> Easy > >>> to compare and on one spot. What do you think about this? > >> +1 > >> > >> I'd start with a gallery of the already presented mockups > >> (perhaps with a short description of their features) and then go through > >> this gallery and collect the single features for another gallery of UI > >> elements / positions / ideas as a basic tool for our overall concept. > >> > >> I don't know if a gallery or a table would fit our needs better. > >> > >> While a gallery is easier to create and maintain, a table allows to add > >> more fields than just one caption below each image. > >> > >> With a gallery we probably need to go to the gallery entry's wiki pages > >> to get the necessary information. > >> > >> A table (containing mid-size images in one of their columns) would allow > >> to add the features contained in the mockup, the rationale for each > >> specific design element (if existing) and many more information. > >> > >> On the other hand it's harder to write than just to the gallery. > >> > >> Best regards > >> > >> Bernhard > >> > >> -- > >> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org > >> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > >> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > >> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > >> deleted > >> > > Could we circulate the link to other LO lists and possibly post it on > > the LO site for users to access? I was thinking of broadening our answer > > base. > > > > I think you will have roughly three groups: those who prefer an impr
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Cover design for printed LibreOffice user guides
On Wed, 2011-06-22 at 16:32 -0400, drew wrote: > On Wed, 2011-06-22 at 04:03 -0400, drew wrote: > > On Thu, 2011-06-16 at 12:19 +0200, Bernhard Dippold wrote: > > > Hi Jean, all, > > > > > > Jean Hollis Weber schrieb: > > > > On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 08:14 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: > > > >> On Sat, 2011-05-21 at 16:35 +0200, Bernhard Dippold wrote: > > > >>> [...] > > > A very simple start: > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:GettingStartedGuideFrontCoverSimple.png > > > > Note I dropped in a sub-title, in this case for Chapter 1. I did not use > > a very high compression setting on the PNG file, as this is for an > > example. > > > > Jean had asked for a GIMP compatible file and the wiki will not > > accept .xcf files, so wrapped that in a zip file, here: > > > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:GettingStartedGuideFrontCoverSimple.zip > > > > As I say - it is quite simple. > > > > Staying with the KISS principle: > > Took the simple file, above, as the base, then adorning with graphical > element for the specific guide. > > With the graphic would go where the sub-title is in the example. > > Sound reasonable? > > Alright - I see 4 guides that need covers. > > Getting Started > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Lib0GettingStartedGuideSimple.png > > Writer > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Lib0WriterGuideSimple.png > > Calc > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Lib0CalcGuideSimple.png > > Math > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Lib0MathGuideSimple.png > > Did not push the source files for the moment, but they are separate > files also. > > Thanks it for now, Thanks, Drew! Great start. BTW, Impress and Draw guides are coming soon. ;-) Comments: (1) I like the icon-like symbols below the name of the guide, although the one for Writer seems a bit lurid with the blue against the green background. (2) I would prefer the name of the guide to be a lot larger, though perhaps that's not necessary with the symbols. Will be interested to hear others' reactions. (3) I don't envision using these as title pages on individual published chapters, but only on covers of compiled books. However, a lower-res (and thus much smaller file size) version might work for chapters. Something for the docs team to think about! If I can find time, I'll play around with the xcf and see if I can come up with a variation. --Jean -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] [VI] Cover design for printed LibreOffice user guides
On Wed, 2011-06-22 at 04:03 -0400, drew wrote: > On Thu, 2011-06-16 at 12:19 +0200, Bernhard Dippold wrote: > > Hi Jean, all, > > > > Jean Hollis Weber schrieb: > > > On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 08:14 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: > > >> On Sat, 2011-05-21 at 16:35 +0200, Bernhard Dippold wrote: > > >>> [...] > A very simple start: > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:GettingStartedGuideFrontCoverSimple.png > > Note I dropped in a sub-title, in this case for Chapter 1. I did not use > a very high compression setting on the PNG file, as this is for an > example. > > Jean had asked for a GIMP compatible file and the wiki will not > accept .xcf files, so wrapped that in a zip file, here: > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:GettingStartedGuideFrontCoverSimple.zip > > As I say - it is quite simple. > Staying with the KISS principle: Took the simple file, above, as the base, then adorning with graphical element for the specific guide. With the graphic would go where the sub-title is in the example. Sound reasonable? Alright - I see 4 guides that need covers. Getting Started http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Lib0GettingStartedGuideSimple.png Writer http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Lib0WriterGuideSimple.png Calc http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Lib0CalcGuideSimple.png Math http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Lib0MathGuideSimple.png Did not push the source files for the moment, but they are separate files also. Thanks it for now, //drew -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Logo for the new extension-template-repository?
Hi, Am Montag, 20. Juni 2011, 23:47:53 schrieb Vamsi Kodali: (...) > @Andreas - Your website design is nice and clean. What do you think > about changing the colors of tabbed links bar to green so that it > becomes more consistent with the website design of other LibO sites? that's the Plone Sunburst layout. The green is in my mind ;-) Regards, Andreas -- ## Developer LibreOffice ## Freie Office-Suite für Linux, Mac, Windows ## http://LibreOffice.org ## Support the Document Foundation (http://documentfoundation.org) ## Meine Seite: http://www.amantke.de -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] The future of design suggestions
Hi Planas. On 22/06/11 10:05 AM, planas wrote: Hi all, On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 23:09 +0200, Bernhard Dippold wrote: Hi Björn, all Björn Balazs schrieb: Hi all, I am a little unsatisfied with the amount of individual threads going into the direction of: "We need a new interface for LibreOffice - and it needs to look linke this...". For me they show the high interest of our team members in the UI design area. But you're totally right: We need to integrate the different proposals in general directions for UI improvements. This is a Free Software Project. As a design team, we will not need to convince ourselves about this need to change the GUI (we all agree on that), we will need to convince the people actually doing (and financing) it - the developers and the companies paying them. Even if a large group of developers are paid by companies, there is another group coding on their own. What we need are at least a few developers interested in UI design. If we can convince them, our ideas will become code and finally find their way into the product. But if we can convince more than just a few developers by showing the needs our users to the entire community, this would get more developers interested and involved... [... we should never argue about personal opinions ...] So, how can we make this more productive? Ideas are good, visualisations are even better. So let us find a way to not comment on these, but to collect them with the goal of easy comparision with eachother. A gallary of ideas and visualisations of the future LibO. A gallery is great - but I'd rather think of a gallery of single UI improvements (with visualizations from different mockups) than of a gallery of the different mockups. If several mockups contain sidepanes, similar context menus or context sensitive tools, these should be combined as features, based on user data (already existing or new to be reached for) and expert statements, decided on their positive/negative impacts and recommended for implementation based on a specification containing all the necessary information for the developers. We should then try to extract the dimensions these ideas differ on. Knowing these we can then again use user-centric methodologies to have the users decide about what they like. Of course user feedback is the most important quality measurement for UI modifications. But based on the user's likings it stays to us to decide which feature should be implemented in which way: There are more than design aspects to consider (marketing, present user base, documentation, coding effort, interdependency with other areas of the product ...), users can't have in mind. With this data we will have much less trouble to convince the code-sponsors to go into a certain direction. That's true - real user data are a very good argument to convince marketing and development ... So - the main point I am argueing for is a gallery of interface ideas. Easy to compare and on one spot. What do you think about this? +1 I'd start with a gallery of the already presented mockups (perhaps with a short description of their features) and then go through this gallery and collect the single features for another gallery of UI elements / positions / ideas as a basic tool for our overall concept. I don't know if a gallery or a table would fit our needs better. While a gallery is easier to create and maintain, a table allows to add more fields than just one caption below each image. With a gallery we probably need to go to the gallery entry's wiki pages to get the necessary information. A table (containing mid-size images in one of their columns) would allow to add the features contained in the mockup, the rationale for each specific design element (if existing) and many more information. On the other hand it's harder to write than just to the gallery. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted Could we circulate the link to other LO lists and possibly post it on the LO site for users to access? I was thinking of broadening our answer base. I think you will have roughly three groups: those who prefer an improved version of the current UI but with limited graphical changes; those who prefer a more distinctive UI (there may be a few major groups here); and finally those who are indifferent about the exact look as long as it meets certain goals such being customizable, well organized. Personally, I am most in the last group of being more interested in meeting certain goals rather than the graphical layout itself. I would prefer to let the layout be determined by specific design goals such as user customization, being well organized. I do not object to a new interface if it will meet these and simil
[libreoffice-design] Another UI proposal: Citrus UI
Hi everyone, Since everyone's putting their UI proposal up, I'll do so too: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Mirek2 . I'll be happy to incorporate it into a central repository of UI proposals once it becomes available (or tell me if it already is). That said, I'm wondering about the state of the Design Team Kick-Off: Is it still underway? How/when will step 4 be completed? Will the UI overhaul be part of step 6? What is the state of the current Design Team Whiteboards? Are all of them places for serious discussion that will lead to UI bug fixes in LibO or are some of them just a dumping ground for improvement suggestions? -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] KDE and Gnome theme design for use of screenshots
I was wondering if anyone on the design team could help out? The documentation team has adopted the following "theme" (XP-Silver theme)[1] for their use of screenshots. I was wondering if anyone could help in trying to make this theme more "user friendly" in the installation procedure. If you download the theme from the link on that page[2], it gives you installation procedures for Ubuntu. I am not sure if the directions on that page work for all of the latest versions of Ubuntu, however, the problem with the installation procedures is that it is not as easily accomplished on any other Linux distros (I use Mageia 1). I tried to install it, but it never quite got the same results as the examples on the wiki page examples. So, I was wondering if anyone on the design team could help in making this a theme that we could post on the http://kde-look.org and http://gnome-look.org as a theme. This would make the "LibO screenshot" theme available to more distros and make it more seamless. I did join the KDE forums and got some feedback from one person on the forums[3], but even there, I just could not seem to make this work. (BTW ... my version of Mageia 1 uses KDE 4.6.3) I was hoping that if we could make this theme more easy to install for our user base, then we could perhaps enlist more people to help out with screenshots. I am particularly interested in helping out with taking screenshots for both our website and documentation needs. I know that I could install Ubuntu, but to me it would seem to make more sense to adopt/modify/create a theme that is more easily installed by a larger number of members on Linux distro's than to limit a theme to those who are only on Ubuntu. We could get more help by making it universal. Could anyone help out? Comments and help are greatly appreciated. Cheers Marc [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Production#Sample_screenshots [2] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/d/db/Ubuntu-xp-silver-theme.zip [3] http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=95613 -- Marc Paré http://www.parEntreprise.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-design] The future of design suggestions
Hi Björn, all Björn Balasz wrote: > Hi Bernhard, all, > > Am Dienstag, 21. Juni 2011, 23:09:33 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: > [...] > > > This is a Free Software Project. As a design team, we will not need to > > > convince ourselves about this need to change the GUI (we all agree on > > > that), we will need to convince the people actually doing (and > > > financing) it - the developers and the companies paying them. > > > > [...] if we can convince more than just a few developers by showing the > > needs our users to the entire community, this would get more developers > > interested and involved... > > I am argueing towards a single position we, the UI team needs to come up > with. This position needs to shared by the whole team, paid and voluntary > developers! In a community of volunteers shared positions by all team members are hard to establish, especially if you try to integrate designers and developers in one team. But your right: This needs to be our goal. And this will only be able to reached by clear (user) data and convincing scepticists by good and valid arguments. > > [...] > > > I'd start with a gallery of the already presented mockups > > (perhaps with a short description of their features) and then go through > > this gallery and collect the single features for another gallery of UI > > elements / positions / ideas as a basic tool for our overall concept. > > > > I don't know if a gallery or a table would fit our needs better. > > > > While a gallery is easier to create and maintain, a table allows to add > > more fields than just one caption below each image. > > > > With a gallery we probably need to go to the gallery entry's wiki pages > > to get the necessary information. > > > > A table (containing mid-size images in one of their columns) would allow > > to add the features contained in the mockup, the rationale for each > > specific design element (if existing) and many more information. > > > > On the other hand it's harder to write than just to the gallery. > > > > Could you take care of this? Important to me seems to be that commitments are > licenced correctly and allow to show mocks, designs and even prototypes at > the same time. Don't know which technical solution is best for this... I can try to - but I'd really appreciate someone else to step in (too). My time is limited, but that's probably the same for each of our tema members. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] The future of design suggestions
Hi Steve, Am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2011, 09:22:33 schrieb Steve Edmonds: [...] > I also think it is important to be able to provide the whole package, > complete solution, (all details) in an overall structured way and not > haphazard. For a developer to pick it up and commit many hours all > questions need to be answered in a specification. i.e. how will every > menu in every LO component function. Discussion here is centered on > writer and trying to conserve height but calc is mentioned as preferring > wide to tall space. > May be a framework can be created, like a table, with the various LO > components (writer, calc, etc.) across and the various UI elements down. > When all the cells are filled and how the elements work, inter-reaction > is seen and agreement is made then developers can be considered. > The developers may then need to refine this due to code or function > needs (you can't do that because... but may be like this) > Then when all in agreement the coding can be implemented. Please do not mix up two distinct steps. 1. We need to collect the ideas. This is what this thread is about (as I understand it) 2. Extract the ideas behind the ideas and create something developers can work with. We have not even adressed this topic, as no major UI changes will take place at the moment, because developers are on totally different tasks (refactoring code to be able to change the UI in future). Let us talk about step 2 once we have a working solution for step 1 - or noone will be able to follow the discussions anymore... :) Best, Björn -- Voluntary Open Source Usability: http://www.OpenUsability.org Commercial Open Source Usability: http://www.OpenSource-Usability-Labs.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] The future of design suggestions
Hi Bernhard, all, Am Dienstag, 21. Juni 2011, 23:09:33 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: [...] > > This is a Free Software Project. As a design team, we will not need to > > convince ourselves about this need to change the GUI (we all agree on > > that), we will need to convince the people actually doing (and > > financing) it - the developers and the companies paying them. > > Even if a large group of developers are paid by companies, there is > another group coding on their own. > > What we need are at least a few developers interested in UI design. If > we can convince them, our ideas will become code and finally find their > way into the product. > > But if we can convince more than just a few developers by showing the > needs our users to the entire community, this would get more developers > interested and involved... I am argueing towards a single position we, the UI team needs to come up with. This position needs to shared by the whole team, paid and voluntary developers! [...] > I'd start with a gallery of the already presented mockups > (perhaps with a short description of their features) and then go through > this gallery and collect the single features for another gallery of UI > elements / positions / ideas as a basic tool for our overall concept. > > I don't know if a gallery or a table would fit our needs better. > > While a gallery is easier to create and maintain, a table allows to add > more fields than just one caption below each image. > > With a gallery we probably need to go to the gallery entry's wiki pages > to get the necessary information. > > A table (containing mid-size images in one of their columns) would allow > to add the features contained in the mockup, the rationale for each > specific design element (if existing) and many more information. > > On the other hand it's harder to write than just to the gallery. > Could you take care of this? Important to me seems to be that commitments are licenced correctly and allow to show mocks, designs and even prototypes at the same time. Don't know which technical solution is best for this... Best, Björn -- Voluntary Open Source Usability: http://www.OpenUsability.org Commercial Open Source Usability: http://www.OpenSource-Usability-Labs.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: The future of design suggestions
Hi dror, Am Dienstag, 21. Juni 2011, 13:40:52 schrieb drorlev: > Hi Bjorn, > > I do share your concerns, but would like to present a somewhat even more > radical position. > > As I understand it, you advocate for an evidence-based decision-making for > design questions. > Anyone can come up with his/her design alternative. > Eventually all the alternatives will be tested by actual users, in one > survey or another, and may the most popular alternative win! > > I would like to ask why not have a preliminary set of surveys, to identify > the needs and likes of actual users and of potential users, > and then come up with design alternatives that address these likes and > needs. > > What do you say? This are two different topics, which both should be adressed: 1. People do obviously send in Design suggestions. We need a way to handle them in a sustainable way. To me this would be at the moment not so much discussing each suggestion, but to collect them to have a pool of ideas once we can actually start a phase of redesigning the interface. Also, putting them into one spot, should force users to provide them under a CC licence (aor alike), so we are actually allowed to use the provided material and ideas. 2. We have started the process of digging deep into user research, which needs to adress needs and likes as well as demegraphics. At the moment we are working on the toolchain and on building up a panel of users. Best, Björn > > dror > > -- > View this message in context: > http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/The-future-of-design-suggestions-tp308 > 5560p3092867.html Sent from the Design mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Voluntary Open Source Usability: http://www.OpenUsability.org Commercial Open Source Usability: http://www.OpenSource-Usability-Labs.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] Survey - Current Issues
Hi Dror, *, Am Dienstag, 21. Juni 2011, 13:26:40 schrieb drorlev: > Dear Bjoren and all, > > The survey system looks great and friendly! Great! > However, I'm a bit confused. > > Is the aim of this survey primarily to test the survey-system or is the > major aim to come up with some initial directions for future design? > > Thanks for the work and additional appreciation for clarifying its goals. The survey has been put up by Scott, and I just put it from mail to the survey system in order to keep the answers. So the survey is meant both, to be inspirational (as Scott pointed out) and to give an impression of the survey system itself. Hope this answers your question! Best, Björn > -- > View this message in context: > http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Survey-Current-Issues-tp3084300p309280 > 5.html Sent from the Design mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Voluntary Open Source Usability: http://www.OpenUsability.org Commercial Open Source Usability: http://www.OpenSource-Usability-Labs.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] Survey - Current Issues
Hi Rafael, *, Am Mittwoch, 22. Juni 2011, 03:28:08 schrieb Rafael Rocha Daud: > Hi, Björn, > > I have just finished answering it (kinda busy these days) right before > reading your mail. > I found it very easy to answer. The questions are open, but clearly > oriented. The site is friendly and non-intrusive. Thanks. And we will continue to improve the survey site. > My main concern is on how to process the data you will receive. People > have so many different ways of telling their opinion. While some are > laconic, others (like myself) use just too many words. But you're the > pro, so I'll just confide in you. If you need some help, though, just > say and I'll try to be useful. The answers will available for the public at some later point (development is in heavy progress). So everyone can (and is asked to) make up their own opinion. But for sure open answers are not the best way of doing surveys, esp. if you expect a lot of people participating. I just wanted to pick up Scotts initiative, who started this thread by a mail survey. I did not interfere much with the questions he asked. In future we should for sure try to optimize surveys before we start them a bit more :) > Ah, and it occurred to me that maybe there could be a 'back' button also > (or all questions could be on the same page), because sometimes you want > to check whether you already said that, or you remind o something you > wanted to answer in the last question only when it's too late... You can use the back button of your browser, but generally surveys tend to ask for spontainous reactions, so we decided not to implement an "official" back button. Perhaps we introduce this at some later point as configurable, so the one setting up a survey can decided. Thanks for your feedback! Best, Björn > > Em 22-06-2011 03:00, design+h...@global.libreoffice.org escreveu: > > Hi all, > > > > we only got very few answers to the survey. Perhaps you did not answer > > it > > yet? > > > > Go to:http://www.bit.ly/iEkWrB > > > > Best, > > Björn -- Voluntary Open Source Usability: http://www.OpenUsability.org Commercial Open Source Usability: http://www.OpenSource-Usability-Labs.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Cover design for printed LibreOffice user guides
On Thu, 2011-06-16 at 12:19 +0200, Bernhard Dippold wrote: > Hi Jean, all, > > Jean Hollis Weber schrieb: > > On Sun, 2011-05-22 at 08:14 +1000, Jean Hollis Weber wrote: > >> On Sat, 2011-05-21 at 16:35 +0200, Bernhard Dippold wrote: > >>> [...] > >>> I like the cover of the opensourcepress DVD box quite a lot: > >>> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Cover_LibreOffice_3D_rgb_400px.png > >>> > >>> It combines the motif with an idea of the main application icon without > >>> being too tightly related to the logo. > >>> > >>> With the different colored additional triangles it provides an idea of > >>> the different sub-applications - an idea for different covers depending > >>> on the content of the user guides (just color one of the enlarged > >>> triangles). > >>> > >>> If you want me to try out a similar design for the user guides, just > >>> tell me. We are allowed to use their design under any license we want. > >> > >> > >> Bernhard, yes please, I would like you to try out a similar design for > >> the user guides. Thank you! > >> > >> --Jean > >> > > > > I've just returned from 2+ weeks away, when I was not subscribed to this > > list. Has anything further happened with my request for a cover design > > for the user guides? > > unfortunately not :-( > > > [...]I realise you have more urgent items on your list, so if > > you don't have time for this design job, just let me know. Thanks! > > I will start to convert my idea (based on the OpenSourcePress cover) in > a SVG and then hope for the designers her to step in and improve it ;-) > > If someone else wants to start from the scratch, I would not be annoyed... Ok - well, as usual - just to help prime the pump A very simple start: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:GettingStartedGuideFrontCoverSimple.png Note I dropped in a sub-title, in this case for Chapter 1. I did not use a very high compression setting on the PNG file, as this is for an example. Jean had asked for a GIMP compatible file and the wiki will not accept .xcf files, so wrapped that in a zip file, here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:GettingStartedGuideFrontCoverSimple.zip As I say - it is quite simple. Thanks Drew -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@global.libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
