Re: [libreoffice-design] The style drop down menu in properties tab (sidebar) is redundant and unnecessary

[Yousuf 'Jay' Philips]

Hi Bastian,

On 10/18/2015 06:59 AM, Bastián Díaz wrote:

Hello,

Reviewing future changes in LO 5.1, I learned that a menu styles are
included. https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/f/fa/Styles-menu.png


Yes that is one of my changes in 5.1 and it contains a static list a 
basic paragraph and character styles to help promote the use/awareness 
of styles.



It seems fantastic that decision, but revives my doubts about the
inclusion some time ago of a dropdown menu of basic styles in the
properties tab on the sidebar. What is its purpose or use cases?


The style drop down found in the formatting toolbar was added to the 
properties tab of the sidebar in writer in 5.0. The drop down lists 
applied styles in a document and is important for users who prefer to 
use the sidebar over the contextual toolbars.



I in most cases I turn to tab styles, and in the case of using the
dropdown menu, go to "more styles" recursively. As an element in the
toolbar seemed interesting and useful, but now I do not see it
necessary. If a adds style menu, I see this redundant feature.


For a toolbar user, the entire properties tab of the sidebar would be 
redundant and not just the style drop down menu. For a sidebar user, the 
addition of the style drop down allows them to finally hide the 
formatting and other contextual toolbars without any problems.



A user can open styles from a keyboard shortcut, go to the tab styles
and use menu styles. For me the choice of styles in the property tabs is
unnecessary, in addition to providing a poor experience.


Keyboard shortcuts, styles & formatting, and the new Styles menu are 
features focused on advanced users. For regular users, the style drop 
down menu in the toolbar or sidebar would be their primary activation of 
styles.



You could consider deleting to 5.1?


It is something that will be staying in the properties tab.

Regards,
Yousuf 'Jay' Philips

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[libreoffice-design] Re: Icons + legends for Slide Transition selector for 5.1 ...

[Michael Meeks]

With some more gerrit'y action:

https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/19913
Encourage ValueSet to render a legend as well as an icon.
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/19914
Shorten transition group names to make them better legends.

It now looks more like the attached; hopefully its an improvement. Then
again - the sizing of that widget / side-bar is pretty irritating, with
a few more pixels (in English) it would wrap more nicely.

ATB,

Michael.

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[libreoffice-design] Icons for Slide Transition selector for 5.1 ...

[Michael Meeks]

Hi guys,

I've switched the slide transition selector to something based on
icons; actually I'm concurrently looking at adding rendering to the
ValueSet to add the labels underneath too and prettify the selection.

As you can see my already terrible artistic abilities are not improved
by having taken Tor's smaller demo icons and scaled them to the 64x40
pixel footprint we're looking for there. 

Anyhow - it would be very much appreciated if we could come up with a
pretty set of base icons in the galaxy/ theme here. They live in:

icon-themes/galaxy/sd/cmd/transition-*.png

Where * has these values (of sets) from:

officecfg/registry/data/org/openoffice/Office/UI/Effects.xcu

  

so transition-venetian-blinds.png etc. ... =)

  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

Is that possible ? help much appreciated =)

ATB,

Michael.

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[libreoffice-design] Cannot run the hangout today

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi,

Unfortunately I cannot be at the meeting today, sorry about that.  If
you collect on #libreoffice-design, of course will be happy if you run
it without me :-)

All the best,
Kendy


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[libreoffice-design] The LibreOffice Suite Desktop Icon

[Latty, Andy]

Not sure if this is the correct forum for this comment but..

The individual program icons for LibreOffice (Write, Calc, Impress etc.)
are very clear and descriptive where as the icon for the suite as a whole
just looks like a piece of paper and therefore does not really give a clue
as to the program or functions of the program.

As the style guidelines preclude the use of text in the icon how can the
icon be styled to better reflect the range of content??

I use Ubuntu and the Unity Launcher and like to have a single icon for
LibreOffice and boot into the open/recent files, templates, create page. I
can always right click on the launcher to go straight to Write, Calc etc.
 if I want to. The current white page icon (albeit with a little black
corner fold) is not very attractive and for users new to LibreOffice it
does not help them know what they might be selecting!

Cheers

Andy Latty

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[libreoffice-design] HelpAuthoring-3.1.4.oxt released

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi,

I've released a new version of the HelpAuthoring extension.  It is
available here:

  http://dev-www.libreoffice.org/helpauthoring/

Please upgrade to this version, it is recommended for real use - please
help us creating the help pages!  It needs LibreOffice 4.4 or later.

The following has been improved in the version 3.1.4:

+ tdf#94201: No 'localize' on the 'switch' element (Regina)
+ tdf#94201 Dont import blank visibility attribute of  tag 
(Regina)
+ tdf#93981 Attribute localize=(false|true) is deleted (Regina)
+ correct path help/ to helpcontent2 and clarify (Eike)
+ make sure to select the full title line in wizard (Jay)
+ tdf#95509 Retain image size on save (Jay)

If you find bugs, please check the bugzilla if it is already reported,
and if not, report it, and set it as blocking the tracker bug:

  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93580

Or of course try to fix it, it is not that hard :-)  How to hack it is
described here:

  
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/contrib/dev-tools/tree/helpauthoring/README

All the best,
Kendy


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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2015-11-04

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Heiko, Jan-Marek, Jay, Kendy, Mattias
 
* UI changes integrated the last week:

+ optimized breeze icons (Andreas)
+ jump to specific page in preview (Gulsah)
+ text background tab in char formatting dialog (Bubli)
+ re-use MenuBarManager for context menus too (Maxim)
+ text background color related fix (Maxim)

* Table styles (Kendy)
 
+ would be good to have a Friday session about that (Kendy)
+ already collected stuff in a doc (Jay)
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FPkf9fn79dXJ5tHpc-meMYxaQpj3nV5sEN6u9HOo2GQ/edit?usp=sharing
+ 9th October, 1:00pm CEST / 11:00am UTC (Kendy)
+ more discussion about the proposal (Jay/Heiko/Kendy)
+ afraid of too many elements there (Heiko)

+ pending publishing
+ some thing still can be discussed

* Area Tab design session (Heiko/Jay)
 
+ Area Tab - https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94551
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gf7wqYszXnbrbzbyNlLKbJelMb20ssuimxfszcHP_wM/edit?usp=sharing
+ not published yet
 
* Dedicated Design team blog (Heiko)
 
+ redmine ticket: https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/issues/1505
+ pending on infra
+ voting feature/plugin
 
* Bug discussions
 
+ none this week

* NotebookBar (Samuel)

+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/NotebookBar
+ screenshot - 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/f/f5/Notebookbar-writer.png
+ NotebookBar allows to create toolbars with glade (Samuel/Kendy)
+ full control over widgets in the topmost area, defined via a .ui file
+ an optional thing for users (Samuel)
+ menus + toolbars the default
+ now in master, but hidden via an env. variable (Kendy)

+ keep in mind the HIG (Heiko)
+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/ToolBar
+ mentions some future enhancements of toolbars that might be helpful 
here (Heiko)
+ eg. grouping
+ possible with Notebookbar
+ eg. 
http://docs.sencha.com/extjs/4.0.7/#!/example/toolbar/toolbars.html ?

   + tabs make toolbars context depending which is against the use case of 
toolbars (Heiko)
+ structuring the toolbar with labeled groups and perhaps different 
sized buttons make sense
+ the tabs from the current notebookbar should stay a menubar (Heiko)

* Help updating (Kendy)

+ new patches, would be great to have a new release (Jay)
+ will do, this time really :-) (Kendy)

+ online modification prototype (Jay)
+ Liongold on IRC working on that
+ will share that with Jay, and can iterate
+ need a VM from the infra to host the prototype
+ will create another ticket for this (Jay)
  https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/issues/1584
+ would be great to put the code to a repository (Kendy)
+ dev-tools (some subdir there) (Kendy)
+ or a new repo - eg. on github as a start? (Kendy)
+ dev-tools preferred though

+ images in helpauthoring (Jay)
+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/HelpContent#Make_Images_Appear
+ image sizes not saved with HelpAuthoring
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95509
+ warning to correctly implement image insertion
+ implement a image root
+ have a pending patch (Jay)

+ the menubar re-org (Jay)
+ help 1/3 adapted - File, Edit & View menus
+ pending in gerrit now

+ help-related meta bugs:
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94016
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93580

* Icon Updates / Issues (Jay)

+ 32pixel sifr icons
+ first 2 from Pappamatti
+ reminded him to push svg too (Jay)
+ to use the Tomaž's code

+ Tango icons from Jay for new commands in table toolbar

+ Extra-Large (32x32) Icons for large resolutions
+ Status - 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mPqD2gGsMkfVCI6ByUd2XYX1NJm26hcGjRVe6gcCSEU/edit?usp=sharing
+ Integrating it into the options dialog - 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95014
+ add a "extra large" entry

+ still something wrong with inheritance (Jay)
+ Samuel will look at one of them
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93866
+ easiest solution: eg. for tango, during build concat tango + 
galaxy links.txt, and
  put to images_tango.zip
+ one shared links.txt is probably not possible (Jay/Samuel)
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91565
  tango - 
https://bug-attachments.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=115945
  galaxy - 
https://bug-attachments.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=119516

+ Sifr & breeze for dark themes
+ 

Re: [libreoffice-design] The style drop down menu in properties tab (sidebar) is redundant and unnecessary

[Bastián Díaz]

El 11-11-2015 07:17, Yousuf 'Jay' Philips escribió:




You could consider deleting to 5.1?


It is something that will be staying in the properties tab.



It seems that with those words, does not give rise to any discussion.


---
Bastián Dïaz
https://telegram.me/diazbastian

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Re: [libreoffice-design] The style drop down menu in properties tab (sidebar) is redundant and unnecessary

[Pedro Rosmaninho]

>
> El 10-11-2015 12:41, Pedro Rosmaninho escribió:
>
> If you don't like it, fine. If other people prefer it and actually
>> contribute based on their preferences then their opinion counts as much as
>> your if you're a contributor.
>>
>>
> Please we contribute to the discussion. If you read my arguments, I know
> beyond liking or not liking that option.
>
> I do not say otherwise. it is convenient to operate in a toolbar, not in
>>> the sidebar, so I proposed a toolbar >>like google-docs.
>>>
>>
> ​To you. Other people find it more convenient to operate in the Sidebar. I
>> give strong preference to the Sidebar >because it uses space in my 16:9
>> displays a lot better than having 2 or 3 toolbars. So don't presume that
>> your >way is the best just because you use more and then want to remove all
>> other options.​
>>
>
> Again, if you read my arguments, you would know that:
>
> - I also strongly support the sidebar, however, it does not seem desirable
> to have "duplicate functions" for the styles in Writer documents.
> Therefore, I am in favor of improving the panel "Styles and Formatting"
> and not additionally add a dropdown menu to apply styles in the properties
> panel. (Redundant also considering adding a menu of styles in version 5.1).
>
> - I never mention use many toolbars, on the contrary I propose a single
> tool bar, similar to that used in google-docs. In that context a dropdown
> menu would be useful. The other tools appear depending on the context of
> use in the sidebar.
>
> - The current functions of styles in the properties panel seem limited. If
> you use styles actively, always you end up using the panel "Styles and
> Formatting". Should continue developing, we have the same functions in two
> different sections of the sidebar (property panel and panel styles and
> formatting), which to me seems inconvenient.
> Should continue developing, we have the same functions in two different
> sections of the sidebar (property panel and styles and formatting panel),
> which to me seems inconvenient.
>
> See:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Styles-menu.png
>
> @Pedro What do you think about that?
>
>
> ​It seems that our opinions match strongly except on this matter. For me
the optimal default UI of LO would be one where the main modules have just
one single toolbar and everything else located in the Sidebar. This is
easily accomplishable in Writer already. Impress is already there! :)
Calc needs a bit more work.

As for the Styles Menu I think it improves the flexibility of LO allowing
people to use the menu instead​. Optimal for power users.

After reading your proposal further down, I must say I agree with you.
There's already Styles and Formatting and that tab of the Sidebar should be
improved.
But the Styles category in the Property panel has one advantage: it is
drop-down and easier to see the different Styles (although it constantly
crashes in my install of 5.0).

_

My question is:
*Why not add the style dropdown menu in the panel of styles and formatting?*

proposal:
- The dropdown menu can be positioned at the top or bottom of styles and
formatting panel.
- The drop-down menu will be sensitive categories (document styles, applied
styles, custom styles, etc.)
- (based on mockups) In a single panel (stack view?) Are displayed, the
paragraph and character styles.

In practice it would become very practical: a) at a glance would have
available all paragraph and character styles. b) through the dropdown menu,
based on categories would faster selection or specific styles.

This approach maintains differentiated the properties panel (direct
formatting) and panel styles and formatting.


I love this idea.
The Styles and Formatting panel in the Sidebar looks and behaves very
differently from the rest of the panels. The icons for the different
categories in the Tango icon set also don't help.

I would organize those categories as the categories are organized in the
Properties tab converting the current UI to dropdown menus as in the
Properties for the different categories.
This would make the UX similar between the Properties panel and Styles and
Formatting panel.

As for what Yousuf wrote, I think he means that this discussion won't give
results for 5.1 because there's a lot of other stuff being worked on.
This item should definitely be included for 5.2.

For more people to use the Styles and Formatting the UI must be clearer and
similar to the Properties panel.

On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Bastián Díaz  wrote:

> El 11-11-2015 07:17, Yousuf 'Jay' Philips escribió:
>
>
>> You could consider deleting to 5.1?
>>>
>>
>> It is something that will be staying in the properties tab.
>>
>>
> It seems that with those words, does not give rise to any discussion.
>
>
> ---
> Bastián Dïaz
> https://telegram.me/diazbastian
>
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