[libreoffice-design] Re: Making it easier to type in non-Latin scripts

[V Stuart Foote]

Samiur Rahman-2 wrote
Hi Samiur,

Agree there is a need to bring this function back into LibreOffice.

We stripped out the 'input box' for the Special Character dialog for GSOC
2017, and have  tdf#115477
   open to
restore it.

Likewise an effort to enhance the current Special Character dialog's
'favorites' & 'recently used' button lists--'localizing' them we have   tdf#
120899   .

I don't think we have to fully implementing a framework to integrate IMEs
for various locals. But more can be done, like   tdf#42437
   open for macOS
'Press and Hold App' deadkey IME; and  tdf#71176
   for 

Point to all of this is that the Unicode handling offered in the Special
Character dialog already provides a framework for manipulating polyglot text
(to supplement IME provided by os/DE); and with a bit of dev effort would
provide a well integrated textual input box making use of the ICU libs we
already provide for handling different scripts in a document.

Would envision something like the Formula bar from Calc, or the striped down
implementation for Writer table cells for textual input of multiple scripts,
with GUI simplifying both configuration and actual text run input. First
into the input box and adjusted--and then moved onto document canvas. 

Stuart



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[libreoffice-design] Re: Material Color Palette

[V Stuart Foote]

Google's 'Material Design' color  tables from 2014 are sound sRGB based
efforts. Adding them as a built-in color palette  facilitates their use in
any of the LibreOffice modules.  

Andreas' effort to fit them into our 12 column palette color picker--now
including the two Accent colors--means they will be correctly labeled as
colors when brought in from external materials also using the core Material
Design 2014 color tables. And imagine our builds for Android would put them
to use. 

Just makes sense to provide this 'out of the box' for seamless use in
LibreOffice without having to load as an extension.

+1



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[libreoffice-design] Re: LibreOffice's download page can add a few ads and increase revenue.

[V Stuart Foote]

Thank you, but NO

I could see a Public Service Announcement from any/all of our TDF and
LibreOffice participating corporate sponsors--but flatly NO to any scheme
for "revenue generation".

Stuart



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[libreoffice-design] Re: Diablo mode window

[V Stuart Foote]

和尚蟹 wrote
> The dark mode window is better for the eyes.
> 
> http://document-foundation-mail-archive.969070.n3.nabble.com/file/t495194/Image_5.png;
>  

Yes it would be nice, but until MS publishes a C++ API for "legacy" desktop
applications to manipulate theme applied colors this remains back burner. 
Enhancement is  open in BZ as  tdf#118320
  , follow along
there.

Stuart



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Re: Fwd: [libreoffice-design] Agenda for the design/UX meeting 2018/Sep/19

[V Stuart Foote]

Forwarding response rcvd PM...


From: Miguel Mayol
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 19:34:45 +0200
Subject: Re: Fwd: [libreoffice-design] Agenda for the design/UX meeting
2018/Sep/19
To: V Stuart Foote

Thanks a lot for understanding the concept. It costs me a lot to be
understand.

As for MOUSE utility SMART HIDE is more important, but this would be, for
new users, a fingers friendly unified design, with almost zero training -
AZT - from one device to other, and phones are far more used than desktop
PCs, and if LO becomes the "de facto" tablet and phone office suite as it is
finger friendly other kind of menu - traditional text one - would not
welcome this new finger friendly users to come to the desktop and web
version.

I think LO can do as Chrome did with MSIE, obliterate MSO, because it is
much better and in this case FOSS when MSO isn't. 

Improving menus, - a material design alike approach would be also good, but
I do think nested icons - ideograms in vertical dock plus 3x3 nested icons -
ideograms with subtittle if needed   is better 

And putting in valor LO base when many people use MS Excel as database as MS
Access is not inside the basic and cheaper MSO bundle teaching LO base with
mini cases escenarios for university teachers / pupils  that are AZT and
improve their productivity using computers can also be a good strategy. 

But that BASE promotion is a work someone hired to do so by the foundation
should do, some day. or i think so. 

And with finger friendly menus and versions for Android it will be much
easier to do.




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Re: Fwd: [libreoffice-design] Agenda for the design/UX meeting 2018/Sep/19

[V Stuart Foote]

Fertile concept for another MUFFIN mode. Implementing a widget framework  to
hold a matrix of menu actions would of course reuse existing .uno controls.

I can see some utility for use on tablets/slates, or even phones--but a
traditional "non-touch" mouse driven Desktop would not benefit greatly.  And
of course there is dilution of dev effort and the long support tail GUI
efforts like this impose.

None the less,  an interesting GUI proposal in the spirit of MUFFIN.



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[libreoffice-design] Re: Minutes from the design meeting 2018/Mar/28

[V Stuart Foote]

htietze wrote
> ...
> 
> But it's up to the community, which is first the design team. So more
> opinions please.

Choosing a default Notebookbar mode is trivial--and I do not see too much of
a support issue across the modes--it is all .UI assemblage of .uno commands. 
But there are holes and lingering issues to finishing up Notebookbar for
general use.

A major issue preventing Notebookbar from coming out of Experimental mode is
the complete and continuing  lack of a11y Accessible Event focus for all
elements in the Notebookbar UI--in any mode-- that is bug 107316. Listbox ,
dialogs  launched from the Notebookbar emit their event focus and are picked
up--but all controls in the .UI scheme are dead to a11y.

But also, what to do for the missing Tools -> Autocorrect controls. 

Or bug 107343 for a shortcut for toggling of  the legacy "Menubar". 
Presently there is no shortcut implemented (F10 being the preferred) and the
toggle from GUI  gets stuck. As a result UI can end up trapped in a
Notebookbar mode unable to switch modes or the access the Menubar: View ->
Toolbar Layout to change mode.  End up  trapped (and have to clear profile
to recover).

Aside from those issues, as to choosing a default in Writer I actually like
the Compact Tabbed mode--when legacy Menubar is not trapped in the view
"False" state--as this mode  gives the simplicity of GUI we wanted--while
toggle exposing the legacy Menubar has all needed functions. Contextual
Single mode is also appealing--but likewise troublesome if you loose the
legacy Menubar. But those are both only in Writer.   

Andreas' work on the Groupedbar for Writer and the other modules is also
good because of its extent, but also its distance from MS work on the Ribbon
interface.

But again I don't think it makes too much difference--just pick a "default"
for when Notebookbar is enabled. As Andreas notes:

> In the end the main question is how we guarantee that new features get
> implemented in the different implementations.





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[libreoffice-design] Re: Agenda for the design meeting 2018 Mar/21

[V Stuart Foote]

The backport now to 6.0 would be to get more eyes on the Icon set. It would
not yet be the default on Windows, but rather  it would give Andreas a
chance to take care of any dark corners of the UI with additional design
before it becomes such--including hopefully support for SVG icons.  And an
ability to better support HighContrast and Color Blind user configurations.

This late feature backport  to 6.0 would be low risk, only adding the icon
packaging and an entry on the Tools -> Options -> View: Icon style  drop
list.

We'd need to promote the new icons with some guidance on testing them to
encourage feedback. With just a bit of effort, we'd be ready to have them
generally accepted as a new Windows default at 6.1 release.





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[libreoffice-design] Re: Agenda for the design meeting 2018 Mar/21

[V Stuart Foote]

Daniel A. Rodriguez wrote
> ...
> Why not elementary?

Elementary is no longer maintained.

Colibre is in current development and  has been themed for LibreOffice
targeting Windows only.   tdf#115867 - Windows 10 icon theme follow MSO
guidelines   


Rosmaninho wrote
> That Colibre icon set is gorgeous!! And it will fit perfectly in Windows
> 10.
> 
> However, will it be the default icon set for Windows only? I don't think
> it
> suits any Linux distro.

Just for the Windows builds--replacing Tango.

tdf#90194 - Make B̶r̶e̶e̶z̶e̶ Colibre the new default in Windows 10
  

Design/UX issues are to decide if to back port the icon theme as late
feature for the LibreOffice 6.0 release; and if to replace Tango as default
icon theme for Windows builds for the 6.1 release.





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Re: Re[2]: [libreoffice-design] A new design for Libreoffice 6

[V Stuart Foote]

Hi Alex,

Very nice layout, but would suggest the triangle corner clips should be
rounded as that has been the branding motif for quite some time (not sure
what the specific radius has been, but should be able to extract from the
current).

The module is Calc not Spreadsheet which you miss in your iconography, 
showing a chart (an internal reporting format)  rather than a sheet  of
cells and an "S" in the stylized component icons. 

The capital Sigma you've used for the Math might be a bit hard to read,
perhaps a f(x) or even an capital Omega.
 
Finally, using component name letter iconography for the  modules is
problematic for localization (also a bit of a riff on Adobe's CS/CC
practices.)

None the less a good bit of work, lets see what others more sage than I have
to add.

Stuart



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[libreoffice-design] Re: GSoC'17: Customization

[V Stuart Foote]

IMHO also believe Variant 1 would benefit our Eve users who tend to customize
their UI rather than taking defaults, and so benefit the majority of our
users.

But it would be more complex for keyboard only users, and those dependent on
a11y and assistive technology tools.   The UI will always be driven from the
keyboard by users. That facet requires explicit developer's attention to
providing accessible events and sequencing of the controls to assure the new
work flow(s) can actually be followed from keyboard.  In addition developer
must complete the widget/tool labeling and online help articles used for
tooltips, and that a11y  requires for annotation.

While Variant 2 would be simpler to implement and less risky to fully
complete, Variant 1 is the correct way to proceed--just be mindful of
keyboard interactions and use without mouse/display. 

@Heiko, Bubli as GSOC mentor to Muhammet --please ensure keyboard/AT testing
during development,  and engage the keyboard and AT users during the QA
process for use with ORCA, VoiceOver, and NVDA.

Stuart



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Re: [libreoffice-design] Updated LibreOffice donate page on website for beautifying

[V Stuart Foote]

Mike, *

Tested on FF, IE11, Chrome functions well.

Do we need another green for more contrast/highlight?

Stuart


From: Mike Saunders 
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2017 9:30 AM
To: design@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: [libreoffice-design] Updated LibreOffice donate page on website for 
beautifying

Hi everyone,

We've been working on an updated donate page for the LibreOffice
website. Here's the result so far (this is the main donate block that
will be integrated into our SilverStripe CMS):

https://www.libreoffice.org/assets/Uploads/donate-design-test-1-js.html

We've implemented the features we need and tested it in many browsers,
but if anyone would like to improve its appearance (eg change colours,
fonts, add graphics) then go ahead!

We want to make this live quite soon, but there's still time if someone
wants to work on it.

Thanks!

--
Mike Saunders, Marketing & PR
The Document Foundation

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Blog post about color palettes

[V Stuart Foote]

SOC palettes get copied into the LibreOffice installation root into the 
share/palette directory.

Once placed there they are available in the UI.


From: toki 
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2016 6:01 PM
To: design@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] Blog post about color palettes

On 12/13/2016 06:20 PM, Heiko Tietze wrote:

> heavy discussion here and there about the color palettes. I drafted a
> blog post with what has changed for 5.3 (workflow, added/deleted

What I'm not seeing in that document, is the directory to which
additional palettes can be added.

On a slightly different note, the ability to use a different palette at
">Tools >Options >Charts >Default Colors" does not appear to be present.
 :( The majority of charts I create require specific colours to
represent specific values.

jonathon


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[libreoffice-design] Re: The ways to improve Start Center

[V Stuart Foote]

Mateusz has posted   tdf#104736
   which was
found a dupe of to  tdf#38742
   -- "Pushpins
in recent menu".

Also, regards any reformatting of the thumbnail view into a quasi file
management has been considered by Design & UX several times and rejected,
see  tdf#95739   
"Start Center: allow different view modes for recent files list"  no
compelling reason to revisit.

Stuart






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[libreoffice-design] Re: Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2016-Dec-08

[V Stuart Foote]

Khaled Hosny wrote
>>  * Bullet lists defaults
>>+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92657
>>+ Option 1: Replace OpenSymbol as default for bullets by text default
>>+ Option 2: Reduce bullet size so that spacing is not affected by
>> symbols
>>+ code pointers needed
>>-> no easy hack, needs investigation
> 
> So what is the actual bug here, the use of OpenSymbol (is this a new
> change?) or that line spacing for OpenSymbol changed? If it is the
> later, it might be worth seeing if any of the edits to the font over the
> years changed its line spacing (I recently did touch them, but just to
> unify the various parameters, some of them were obviously broken). It
> might also be possible to set the bullet style to have a fixed and very
> small line spacing so that it is always smaller than the text font.
> 
> ...

The history (and code pointers) on use of OpenSymbol as default font for
bullet lists can be found in this series of OOo issues archived with the
Apache OpenOffice project.

https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=59997
https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=60263
https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=63395#c13
https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=88261

The OpenSymbol font has had problems with font metrics as can be seen in
i59997, and of course on the LibreOffice side we've also made adjustments
with some work still needed (e.g. tdf#103740).

As noted in c13 of i63395 the 2022, 25e6, 25aa from OpenSymbol were
hardcoded and remain default glyphs for bullet lists. They are unstyled, so
will resize as the paragraph font is resized, but will not otherwise match
the font metrics of the font of the paragraph.

Commit to CVS for OpenOffice
2008/06/06 08:49:04 od 1.50.16.1: #i63395# new default bullet characters and
new default bullet font
https://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=345d77aa3406c1630270e1459324ed5bf35fff11

But I believe most of the original issues (StarOffice -> OpenOffice, and ww8
import/export filter) are probably no longer valid reasons to not allow more
general font fallback to handle the bullet replacement--but that would need
to be investigated a bit more deeply.

But if that is the case, we could rector the static assignment of OpenSymbol
to bullet lists when paragraph font provides the glyphs and allow them to
assert eliminating these valid spacing issues.



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[libreoffice-design] Re: "LibreColour" palettes for LibreOffice

[V Stuart Foote]

s/pallet/palette




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[libreoffice-design] Re: "LibreColour" palettes for LibreOffice

[V Stuart Foote]

toki wrote
> On 16/11/16 10:53, Heiko Tietze wrote:
> 
>> I forward your message to the ML. As you may know we will have better
>> user
>> palette management in 5.3. Meaning you can add colors in the area style
>> dialog to the newly introduced 'custom palette'. The former palette
>> management at Tools > Options > Color has been removed. Also document
>> colors will work now.
> 
> Have those changes been incorporates into the 5.3 alpha version that is
> available from
> https://www.libreoffice.org/download/libreoffice-fresh/?type=deb-x86_64=5.3.0=af
>   ?
> 
> jonathon

Yes pallet management is in the alpha 1+ build, but you would do better with
the 5.3.0 beta1 builds:

http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/deb/x86_64/LibreOfficeDev_5.3.0.0.beta1_Linux_x86-64_deb.tar.gz
or
http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/pre-releases/win/x86_64/LibreOfficeDev_5.3.0.0.beta1_Win_x64.msi




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[libreoffice-design] Re: "LibreColour" palettes for LibreOffice

[V Stuart Foote]

toki wrote
> ...
> 
> Personally, I think that the minimum size should be 128 colours.
> 
> One might be able to get away with a 64 colour palette, if alternative
> palettes are _easy_ for non-technical people to install.
> Both ooespalette.1.1.oxt and ZD_Color_Palettes.oxt throw an error, when
> attempting to install their *.soc files using the extension. For
> non-techies, this is a fail.

The color swatch widget has a view windows of 12 x 7 swatches.

The current LO standard palette is 167 colors and 14 rows.  The current
scribus.soc is 546 named colors--sorted by color name so just 45.5 rows to
scroll through.

A .soc with the 1032 colors of  LibreColour CIE HLC would take 86 rows to
scroll, so not too troubling. 

A palette of 16.7 million colors  is a bit too many to scroll and pick from,
mind numbing to advance through.


> One other item to be considered, is that switching palettes from within
> LibO usually requires the program to be restarted.  (My normal practice
> is to close LibO, copy the palette I want to standard.soc, then start
> LibO.)

No restart is necessary and renaming standard.soc is the wrong approach as
that _would_ make for a bad UX.   Rather, all the color dialogs should now
have option to select the palette to use. Having any external palette
available is simply an issue of copying it to the $ORIGIN/share/palette
directory. It will then show in the dropdown list with all other "installed"
palettes. You do not need to work in the standard palette--the document
canvas will be rendered with the selected color either from swatch or
"custom" from the color picker.




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Re: Aw: Re: [libreoffice-design] "LibreColour" palettes for LibreOffice

[V Stuart Foote]

@Heiko, *

Not likely to make a hangout at the new time.

A bit concerned with the note in the minutes:
"* remove cmyk, gallery, html, palette, web"

See Regina's note regards "html" palette
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80196#c31 that these
named colors are actually standardized named colors from X11 - CSS - SVG,
and so are _keywords_.
We probably need to retain the html palette bundled.

The others can/should probably go...

Would agree that including Owen G.'s implementation of Wade P.'s generated
reference "color palette organized according to gray scale (a.k.a. gray
tone, or luminance contrast)".  Here is link to the resulting .soc,  a bit
underwhelming, but remember it is a technical test palette:
http://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=105128

Bundling the KDE Breeze DE colors are fine, but isn't there similar HIG
color spec for GNOME or Apple.

Finally assuming no licensing issues add the FreieFarbe/FreeColour CIE-HLC
palette when provided as .soc,  lack of naming should not be a problem--just
strip out the names and use the HSL/RGB

Side bar--does the Color Picker UI need adjustment to better display the HSL
-- we provide an HSV (labeled as HSB)  not HSL--do we need both? Or should
the widget be reworked to accommodate HSL?






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[libreoffice-design] Re: Proposal to improve layer handling and object selection

[V Stuart Foote]

Well, seems the elephant in the room regards making the GUI functional might
be to open discussion of Draw's internals.

Don't some of the limitations of ODF 1.2 slip away if we could instead move
our vector format natively to SVG, and retaining raster format in BMP meta? 
That coupled with document saves to standards compliant SVG or PNG for
vector or bitmap respectively. 

And relegate ODF 1.2 Drawing to be only an import/export option--rather than
the default format for the Draw module.

Are we functionally obligated to producing ODF 1.2 Drawing document?  I
don't believe we are and filter export should suffice.

Obviously, a bunch more work would be needed to break things and put them
back together--but in the end we would get the functional capability users
are asking for.  But without having to jump through hoops (or implement bad
GUI) otherwise needed to maintain saving to ODF 1.2 Drawing document.

Stuart



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[libreoffice-design] Re: Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2016-Jun-17

[V Stuart Foote]

sberg wrote
> On 06/17/2016 03:47 PM, Heiko Tietze wrote:
>> Enhancements and proposals
>> + Push extensions (Heiko)
>>   + e.g. tdf#71176, tdf#91874, or color replacer, or overall
>> paragraph changer etc.
>>   + Extensions keep the main UI clean and simple but allows to
>> enhance the app for special use cases
>>   + Suggestion is to have a separate component/keyword in the
>> bugtracker for tasks that can be enhancements
>>   + Find users/coders to work on extensions
>>   + We have a component extension (kendy), qa team should make clear
>> what it is used for (Jay)
>>   + Would need some needDevEval before moving a bug to this component
>> (Jay)
>>   + Will bring it up to ESC for pushing it to the community
> 
> Just to clarify: You're talking about .oxt extensions here?

Would they have to be?From the UI Design/UX perspective we should not
care. But from a development, implementation, and maintenance
perspective--worlds of difference.

If the "extension" allows us to modularize  the UI -- and to not install or 
simply disable  "extensions" that the OS/DE directly support--that should
allow for a UI "clean and simple".   It should not matter if that is an
embedded feature enabled/disabled by UI or Expert Configuration, or is
"external" and configured via the Extension manager. 

Take as an example--the LibreOffice "native" dialogs.   Disabled by default
and using the file management provided by  OS/DE.  But for some users--the
OS / DE does not support the use case(s) and they *have* to switch to the
LibreOffice dialogs.

The bigger issue becomes how consistently an "extension" would be maintained
relative to the core UI elements.   It seems our history has been that
"extensions", whether bundled with LO installers or offered via the
Extensions web site,  are treated with benign neglect by the QA and
development cadre. If the developer looses interest--the extension dies.

It would be unfortunate if we end up pushing substantial UI features and
functionality out of the core and into "extensions" and then have the
project disown them.  For this to move forward there needs to be a class of
"extensions", either as OXT *or* embedded contributions, that will have ESC
oversight to assure long term support.

Otherwise great idea.



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[libreoffice-design] Positioning of the view within an open document canvas

[V Stuart Foote]

Kendy, Tomaž, Samuel, *

Need some sage guidance on a UX topic regards these two BZ issues:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41063
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95797

For some time we've had an annoying UI glitch that when manually saving
(with Ctrl+S) or when autosave runs the current canvas view is lost and
document repositions to the location of the edit cursor.

It was most noticeable when the edit cursor had been left in a paragraph
occupying a table cell.  But since the 5.0.0 release now is occurring when
edit cursor is located in common paragraphs.

With autosave on by default, and users often shortening the
interval--loosing one's position in a document being scrolled through is
annoying. 

Related, the edit View position (used when opening a document to position
the edit cursor and canvas view) that responds to a Shift+F5 is set per
document in settings.xml -- but unfortunately it can not be updated during
an edit session--only by saving, closing and reopening the document. 

For that we have a suggested enhancement to make more use of the Shift+F5
key and cycle through multiple edit Veiw locations as in this BZ issue:
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92821

But here is the rub--is there any way to hook to specific locations in the
document canvas view?  IIUC Top, Bottom, page down (from current), page up
(from current), scroll down (set number of lines), scroll up (set number of
lines) none of those require know exactly where the canvas is positioned in
the current view.

Are we able to determine an absolute position in an open document canvas to
be able to fix annoyances of tdf#41063 and tdf#95797, or to implement
something for tdf#92821?
 
Stuart







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[libreoffice-design] FYI - meta issue for the Outline UI in Impress module

[V Stuart Foote]

A friendly FYI from the Design & UX  team -- if interested in work to done on
Impress's Outline UI please follow  tdf#99084
   - Meta:
Outline related bugs and enhancements for Impress. 



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[libreoffice-design] Survey - What do you expect from Libreoffice Draw in the future?

[V Stuart Foote]

Folks,

The Design and User Experience (UX) team is running a survey on the Draw
module -- "What do you expect from Libreoffice Draw in the future?".   It
will remain open through Friday the 19th of February.

Introductory notes on the Survey may be read here on Google Docs:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W6aIpZhQo7j33f8W3p_nXLAd6tamwjtUxZFx77jArcU

The  Survey is hosted here
   by
user-weave.com

Thank you in advance for participating.

Stuart




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[libreoffice-design] Re: Am alternative print range selection algorithm

[V Stuart Foote]

@jmux, *


Jan-Marek Glogowski wrote
> Now there is the nit-pick, that the page number isn't adjusted, if the
> user changes the "print empty pages" setting. We also don't adapt the
> page range when toggling the "print empty pages setting". I guess that
> would be much more work.

As displayed on the Status bar while in Normal view, and in the Print
Preview mode--right? 

But we also have another "nit-pick" related issue with the Navigator,  and
its linked "Jump to Specific Page" box in the Print Preview dialog.  When
Navigating/jumping to one of the blank pages, it gets lost and ends up on
the first page.


> A question that came to my mind: Should we place the "print empty pages"
> setting more prominently on the general page near the range selection
> like the reverse order checkbox, as it directly affects the print range
> selection?

Where? (1) on the Print dialog--where the range selection, reverse order are
located, and *exposed for selection to every print job*; or (2)  more
generically as a setting in the Tools -> Options -> Print panel?   Could be
either of those as opposed to the Tools -> Options -> Writer -> Print: Other
section, where it resides now and is a Writer only configuration.

But, not the Tools -> Options General tab.


> OTOH this is a Writer only setting. We can still show and hide it on the
> general page, depending on the calling document / application. But
> probably it's also not needed?

Yes. But again, you mean for the Print dialog and not one of the Tools ->
Options panels?

Stuart



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[libreoffice-design] Re: The LibreOffice Suite Desktop Icon

[V Stuart Foote]

Hello Chin ZeeYuen,

That is correct, the ML strips attachments but I had uploaded your
contributed icon design to the Nabble hosted ML archive to
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4170611/chinzeeyuen_Icon_redesign.zip

and as well attached them to The Documnent Foundation's Bugzilla instance
issue tdf#96835
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96835

So, we have the contribution.  They look good, but I've no specific feedback
for you.

If you'd like to further develop them--the better place might be in the Wiki
under your own account, and link from there to the Design ML, or onto
appropriate pages in the Design area of the Wiki, or even upload to a
Bugzilla issue.

And, please be mindful that in contributing your original work you (by ML or
to the Wiki) you should assign an appropriate Creative Commons license: CC0,
CC-BY, or CC-BY-SA.

With these caveats...
Be careful not to violate copyright.
Don't try to emulate designs from competing software.
If you're using others' work in your design, be sure to comply with
their license.

Thank you!

Stuart


> From: Chin Zee Yuen 
> 
> chinzeeyuen@x
> 
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 5:39 AM
> To: V Stuart Foote
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: The LibreOffice Suite Desktop Icon
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> Thanks for reply and sorry for so late reply, was in exam weeks! So what I
> have to do now? To make everything clear and no misunderstanding, you
> means the ML removed my attachment? So I have to send them again to the
> link? Or you have uploaded it to the Design ML?
> 
> Let me know how's the designs, if anything not perfect, I can make some
> improvement! And again, I hope I can contribute my works and hope it can
> be used or in part of the final design! I hope to get a LibreOffice T
> Shirt too!
> 
> Thanks and appreciated!
> 
> Have a nice day!





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[libreoffice-design] Re: Impress Mode Toolbar

[V Stuart Foote]

Michel RENON-2 wrote
> ...
> [resent to the ml]
> Currently, some design changes are merged asap in master, just because 
> the code is ok.
> Then during alpha or beta, some user feedback is coming, but it's 
> already too late to make changes in code...
> 
> 
> Why not working on those changes in specific branches ?
> and take time to have user feedback and iterate.
> 
> And only when everything is ok (ui, code), it is merged in master with 
> the usual process

Maybe ask the remaining AOO folks how that development model is working for
them?

IMHO this would be a horrible regression from a developers perspective. It
would kill the project's timed release ethos, and stifle innovative code
development and ongoing refactoring of our long code tail.  It would be
detrimental to the long term health of the project and likely ultimately
kill it.

The truth is the success of LibreOffice has come in large part from exactly
the welcoming meritocracy in development that has emerged.  Few question it
is a better product than the alternatives, but it keeps its relevance
because of the development model and functional cross platform support.

Are there hicups--design, UI and UX--absolutely! That keeps it fun for the
developers.  

Would it be better if we had more hands--absolutely!  Simply put, in
addition to needing more developers and designers (of all flavors) the
project needs to attract more folks to QA and encourage the entire user
community to follow development and *test early and often* in the cycle. 
Sophi does a great job guiding folks with MozTrap test cases, but it hardly
gets touched (at just 4% for 5.1.0).

But, would quality of LibreOffice improve if we revert to a "release when
ready" model-- IMHO, not at all!



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[libreoffice-design] Re: Impress Mode Toolbar

[V Stuart Foote]

Takeshi Abe wrote
> ... about advantage of Modes Tab Bar.
> IMHO it is worth the cost of vertical space.
> Although the icon Display Mode is beautiful, changing the mode through
> Display Mode requires 3 mouse motions (a click, small move, and another
> click).

OK, and equally a reasonable action with the refactoring  would be to ensure
that the newly navigable uno: actions for the button widgets are at least
assigned accelerators in DrawImpressCommands.xcu.  Or probably better if
placed in Accelerators.xcu and assigned fixed Impress short-cut's (a MOD1 or
MOD2 key with mnemonic).

.uno:DiaMode
.uno:OutlineMode
.uno:NotesMode
.uno:HandoutMode

with a slightly more demanding short-cut for the Master controls (MOD1 +
MOD2 and mnemonic)

.uno:SlideMasterPage
.uno:NotesMasterPage

Doing that to establish reliable keyboard navigation between Impress view
modes, and eliminate dependence on GUI widgets would be reasonable
enhancement to the refactoring.

"serious Impress users" might even find it useful ;-)

Stuart
 



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[libreoffice-design] Re: Impress Mode Toolbar

[V Stuart Foote]

Michel RENON-2 wrote
>> Are there hicups--design, UI and UX--absolutely! That keeps it fun for
>> the
>> developers.
>>
> 
> Sorry, I can't agree :
> as a developer and designer, my focus is users.
> And the only way for me to have fun is to have for every release :
> - all problems solved / no regressions
> - happy users
> 
> I hardly can't imagine why it is fun for developers to ship software to 
> millions of users that have hiccups/problems to be solved in the next 
> 6-month-release...
> Is it really the common way of thinking in FOSS ?

If we were just "releasing" every six months "when ready"--maybe it then
would be reasonable to hold back "feature" and design changes--and develop
(design, code, test)  new features in branches.  But suspect in that
scenario a whole lot of innovation would *never* see the light of day as it
would not be reviewed and the responsible dev would move on to other more
interesting things. Development in master forces a certain discipline and
consistency to the process--it is inherently all peer reviewed--and to the
extent that users participate, they see it then.

With our 6-month life cycle of a major releases, we actually "release" every
month, and have ample opportunity to repair regression or revert
inappropriate features that really do adversely impact usability of the
suite.  Sorry, but it does not have to be flawless--nor is it.

Given the numbers of volunteers actually contributing to the project in that
scenario it simply remains more efficient to develop into master.  There our
limited counts of Designers, QA and developers as well as motivated users
are freely able to review emerging features (or issues) and comment as
development proceeds.

The shortcoming is obtaining consistent and continual review by a broader
user community--that is a communications issue.  Most issues are cosmetic
like this suppression of the Impress Mode tab bar here, it would have been
trivial to have the "Modes Tab Bar" button set enabled on the Standard tool
bar if someone with an objection simply mentioned it to the dev rather than
waiting to 5.1.0.2--RC2 is ready to release.
 
Stuart



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[libreoffice-design] Re: Impress Mode Toolbar

[V Stuart Foote]

Italo,

Feel any better after that rant?

Simple fact is the Impress View Mode was refactored and reworked here:
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=229fc164dc1773484b74eca016863cf68860e81b

with review in https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/16723/

It was discussed during several Design meetings and is in the minutes--basic
thought remains that positioned at the top of the Slide pane the Mode Tab
Bar consumed too much vertical space.

When refactored it was provided with a simple View menu toggle "Modes Tab
Bar" so "power users", or the intransigent, can enable or disable it as
desired--but no longer consuming the vertical space by default.

Reasonable UI and UX--nothing is gone.

Stuart





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[libreoffice-design] Re: Impress Mode Toolbar

[V Stuart Foote]

Italo Vignoli-6 wrote
> On 13/01/16 14:35, V Stuart Foote wrote:
>> Feel any better after that rant?
> 
> Sorry, it was not a rant, because the situation - as it is - is
> unacceptable for serious Impress users, who have not been even asked
> before changing the UI of the application they use most. They are not
> subscribed to the design mailing list, and they should be asked before
> changing the UI.

Hmm, it all seems like a text book "rant"--rather petulant.  And I'm not
sure "serious Impress users" have any more weight than "serious Calc users"
or "serious Writer users".

None the less, the developer who implemented the code got to decide based on
input in IRC, design meetings, gerrit feedback, and related issues filed in
BZ (see  tdf#87672
<https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87672>   for example). 

In this case, available in master and  in time for the 5.1.0beta1, the
Impress Mode tab bar  was toggled inactive by default because we've added a
new "Display Mode" split button widget  and an optional "Mode Tab Bar"
button widget to the standard toolbar. There was simply no longer a need for
the Mode tab bar to be on by default. 

With the refactoring, we now had a way to turn it off, and did so--users are
welcome to turn it back on (from the View menu or by adding the toggle
button to their Standard toolbar) if they choose.

>From your apparent shock that something changed, should we assume that you
had not taken a recent build of master nor one of the 5.1.0 beta releases
out for a test? And only now got around to seeing what is new?

Stuart



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[libreoffice-design] Re: The LibreOffice Suite Desktop Icon

[V Stuart Foote]

Chen ZeeYuen,

Received your note, with attachment. You should be aware that the ML will
strip out attachments during distribution. But Have uploaded it 
chinzeeyuen_Icon_redesign.zip

  
 to the Design ML. But also to  tdf#96835 -- The main LibreOffice icon could
use redesign -- not distinctive enough in some Desktop environments
  .


> From: Chin Zee Yuen 
> 
> chinzeeyuen@
> 
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: The LibreOffice Suite Desktop Icon
> Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2016 18:42:47 +0800
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> I had designed new set of icons for LibreOffice main and content apps’s
> icon, I wanted to contribute to LibreOffice and hope they will use my
> design or get some inspirations. I have sent them before but didn’t get
> reply so not sure they seen it, but here’s goes again!
> Please checkout my design and let me know what you think, if you have some
> suggestions please let me know too!
> I hope I can get LibreOffice T-Shirt as well!


In addition to the BZ issue, there are two current Design ML threads for
current work and comments on Paulo José Amaro's proposals, here:
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Mime-Type-Icons-Redesign-Proposal-w-links-tc4165551.html
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Mime-Type-Icons-Redesign-Proposal-tc4165489.html
 



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[libreoffice-design] Re: The LibreOffice Suite Desktop Icon

[V Stuart Foote]

Have an open issue for this now, was coming from the OS X side but it is
generic...

tdf#96835 --  The main LibreOffice icon could use redesign -- not
distinctive enough in some Desktop environments
   





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[libreoffice-design] Re: "Print in reverse page order" option in Writer print dialog

[V Stuart Foote]

Regina Henschel wrote
> I've got a printer "Epson WP-4025" and this printer makes the correct 
> order itself. It prints the last page first, so that the finished paper 
> sheet stack starts with page #1.

Sounds like exactly what the optional setting available is able to address
for folks.  But I'd suggest it is not the norm. 

IMHO the default of unchecked as things are now probably is correct for
printing done by more users.

Stuart





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[libreoffice-design] Re: "Print in reverse page order" option in Writer print dialog

[V Stuart Foote]

Hi Sophie,


Well, most laser printers I've used deliver the print job face down so the page 
order it correct when you pick up the stack.


Reverse order by default, would mean folks would have to uncheck it--or deal 
with sorting their print outs.


Stuart



From: sophi [via Document Foundation Mail Archive] 
<ml-node+s969070n4169531...@n3.nabble.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2015 10:24 AM
To: V Stuart Foote
Subject: "Print in reverse page order" option in Writer print dialog

Hi,

Before I fill an enhancement request, is there any special reason, in
the Writer print dialog, to have "Print in reverse page order" not
checked per default?
Thanks in advance :)
Cheers
Sophie
--
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GSM: +33683901545
IRC: sophi
Co-founder - Release coordinator
The Document Foundation

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[libreoffice-design] Re: Rule Colors - Color Change Needs Review

[V Stuart Foote]

This is  tdf#90214
   and Joel's
proposed patch is  https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/20644/







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[libreoffice-design] Re: Rule Colors - Color Change Needs Review

[V Stuart Foote]

> Fri 2015-12-11 8:36 AM, Joel Madero wrote:
> 
> On 12/11/2015 04:51 AM, Christian Lohmaier wrote:
>> @Joel:
>> " I changed DarkShadowColor (which is worthless for dark themes) to
>> DeactivatedColor (light gray)."
>>
>> hope to Deactive*Text*Color :-)
> Nope I actually tried DeactiveTextColor and it was too light for lighter
> themes (that was actually light gray). I then tried DeactiveColor (which
> is just gray) and it looks okay on both.

I don't think tweaking one or two of the color assignments associated with
Ruler in hopes of having it look good in both light and dark color
schemes/themes is going to be viable.   Also there is chance of  disrupting
color assignment actions when Assistive Technology tools are active and  HC
is detected active on the OS--found in app/settings.cxx  (just parts of the
default colorshceme get tweaked along with the change to HC icons).

Unfortunately,  kind of believe that Joel's simple color change to the ruler
substituting GetDeactiveColor()  for GetDarkShadowColor() is going to result
in a non-crisp/lower contrast ruler in both Light and Dark color schemes.

Issue has been that colors of the ruler pulled from colors of named elements
in styles, usually the default colorscheme, can only be adjusted in source
as Joel just has done.  It really seems that to do this correctly  the half
dozen color assignment(s) for the Ruler (in ruler.cxx)  should be
individually exposed for assignment in the Application Colors (General
section as an Enchanced color scheme)  along with  Expert Config
:EnhancedColorScheme stanzas.  

They then would be exposed for users to edit in their
registrymodifications.xcu



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[libreoffice-design] Re: Fwd: New Interface suggestion

[V Stuart Foote]

reviewed with comments  during the Design - UX meeting 2015-12-11




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[libreoffice-design] Re: Rule Colors - Color Change Needs Review

[V Stuart Foote]

Joel,

Not sure who told you to try to do it as a single color, but I think your
approach needs some additional thought.  

I just checked and the Rulers **are** controlled by style.

svtools/source/control/ruler.cxx
#695

   GetFaceColor
   GetLightColor
   GetShadowColor
   GetDarkShadowColor

pointing back to
vcl/source/app/settings.cxx
#85
   where the style is loaded into a struct

   maFaceColor
   maLightColor
   maShadowColor
   maDarkShadowColor

Meaning, rather than a fixed color--with refined control of the colors
specified as style defaults loaded into the struct it should allow better
settings on generally Dark, or Light, or HighContrast, user interfaces.

But at the moment I'm not sure how one can access and manipulate the style
Not sure if it is per-document or a generic in the registry.  Not controlled
from Tools -> Options -> Application Colors, or Expert Configuration that I
can see.  But it should be possible to do this.

Stuart



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[libreoffice-design] mods to Insert and Format menus in Writer now needed in other modules

[V Stuart Foote]

With resolution of concerns in  tdf#96253
   for Writer,
believe the split buttons and grouped sub-menus for Insert and Format are
equally applicable for use in Calc, Impress and Draw.

Jay and Maxim's menu changes to Writer (Insert & Format) are visible on
builds of master from 2105-12-08 forward (with
6fd3f3caad1a559165dc9332249cbd0d84930775 ).  The organization is logical,
but believe it also needs to be implemented across all the modules in
similar fashion--normalizing the UI/UX.

Stuart



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[libreoffice-design] Re: Mime Type Icons Redesign Proposal

[V Stuart Foote]

Paulo,

Thanks, that is a nice range of choices. 

IMHO if the templates are presented mono-chromatic the hanging pendant, or
blaze, of no. 4 would work well. Believe it would scale well.

But if you could adjust the spiral "bindings" of  no.2,  holding them in  a
common color across all the templates, that also would be readable at all
scales. And to my liking,  would be the better choice.

No. 1  is your current suggestion and does not differentiate enough to
represent a template rather than a document. 

And think  no.3 (hole punched) would have issues of readability at smaller
scale.

Stuart



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[libreoffice-design] Re: Mime Type Icons Redesign Proposal

[V Stuart Foote]

Paulo,

They look really good. Unlike Heiko, I don't have too much of an issue with
the yellow on white for the Draw ODG document icon as the shapes in addition
to the color identify as an ODG.  And in high contrast it is quite obvious.  

I do miss your prior handling of the template motifs from the original  that
included the spiral "binding", the new color only icons don't convey enough
difference from the document icons to determine they are templates.

Stuart



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[libreoffice-design] Re: Remove SplashScreen

[V Stuart Foote]

All,


sberg wrote
> Are you guys talking about a build time configure switch, a runtime 
> command line argument to soffice, or past each other?

Kind of getting lost in the noise, but Bryan Q. had proposed unilaterally in
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/19086 to clobber the SplashScreen.  He's
abandoned that heavy handed approach, and several parallel facets are being
addressed, both Design/Branding and implementation.

Please read the whole thread...
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Remove-SplashScreen-tc4161992.html

There is no immediacy to the issue as at the moment folks who do not want to
see a splash screen can disable it by changing 'Logo=1' to 'Logo=0' in the
soffice.ini configuration file in the installation directory.  Of course
that is per-machine not per-user.  Alternatively, soffice.bin or soffice.exe
can be launched from command line (when on PATH) with flag "-nologo" which
is per-user/per-launch.

So, retaining a SplashScreen by default should cause little concern for
folks who might object to it--as they can simply suppress it.  What might be
desirable,  is a a more convenient way to disable it via GUI--either a check
box, or as a stanza in Advanced Configuration.

As to design/branding --despite Adolfo's objections otherwise-- the
artwork/branding for the 5.0 release was done by "contest" and finalized  by
paid graphic artist--result was agreed to by community.   But there is
"residual" work to be done refreshing the TDF/LibreOffice branding which
dates from 3.3 and 4.0 era. But that is a different topic.

Stuart




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[libreoffice-design] Re: 5.0B3 Start center.

[V Stuart Foote]

They're not final 'til release.  And, those are the Breeze icons--default
remains Tango (automatic) so would be these...

http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4151334/tdf_LO500b3_startCenter_defaultIcons.png
 

Stuart



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[libreoffice-design] Re: Start Center 5.0

[V Stuart Foote]

Hi Pedro,


Pedro wrote
 What is the point of adding a Recent Files icon in the Start Center? 
 (I just noticed it was included in the 4.4 branch from Stuart's post on
 the User list)
 
 Pressing the button seems to return focus to the miniatures but the button
 is not available when any document is open... So the button is only
 visible when the thumbnails are also visible...
 
 Am I missing something?

You are.  When the StartCenter Templates button was changed to a split
button action, there was no way to return to the StartCenter's thumbnail
view panel.  Details are in  tdf#83003
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=83003  .

Stuart 



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[libreoffice-design] Re: Fwd: LO breeze design

[V Stuart Foote]

Hi Johnathon,

Thanks!   Jay had mentioned you'd gotten this student project together.  

But also, the charts in the Wiki itself are very helpful on their own. Looks
to be a ways yet to go with additional Breeze icons.
I hope there aren't that many holes though in our current Sifr coverage
though.

I would note that of the existing LibreOffice icons -- where you are showing
four icons in the column-- those are  Galaxy, Oxygen, Tango and Sifr.  And
for those where you only show two icons those are Galaxy and Tango. 
Headings might need a tweek.

Anyhow, thanks again from the Design team and for our KDE5 based users.

Stuart




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[libreoffice-design] Re: Redesign of Help Send Feedback page

[V Stuart Foote]

Mike, *,

Since the improvements are mostly static layout with no need to follow
links, a simple screenclip and posting of the image using our Nabble ML
interface would work well--Nabble hosts the image, so effectively allows you
to insert an image in the mail.

Done as here with a current clip of your suggestions,  
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4136508/MikeHall_addition_toGetHelp.png
  

which by the way I rather like.

Stuart

LibreOffice ML via Nabble --
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/LibreOffice-f1639495.html





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[libreoffice-design] Re: No Weekly hangout on 24th and 31st December (?)

[V Stuart Foote]

@Kendy, *,

Works for me. It has been a busy couple of months, I think we'll all enjoy
the hiatus of the holidays.

See you all next year.

Stuart




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[libreoffice-design] Re: RFE process between QA and UX

[V Stuart Foote]

All,

sophi wrote
 So following the discussion we had yesterday during the QA meeting
 (thanks Jay for your participation :) we agreed that issues created by
 UX/Design members will be set as NEW and assigned to UX-advice.
 The QA wiki pages will be modified to reflect this change.
 ...

From the Design hangout minutes  (w/minor  reformatting).

Bugzilla workflow proposal after the QA [and UX/Design] team meetings.

  1) issues opened as an enhancement of UX or in UI/Design elements
 should always be handled in Bugzilla UX-advise component.

  2) opened as UNCONFIRMED by anyone, or directly NEW by Design/UX
 team participants (including any Devs and QA folks)

  3) Design/UX team participants, or any QA review should go ahead
 and adjust the component to UX-advise and NEW

  4) Design/UX team should review proposal for completeness, ask OP
 for needed details, and add to weekly agenda

  5) while active, pending Design/UX consideration retain NEW, or
 NEEDINFO

  6) if/when voted down from UX or Design perspective, close as
 WONTFIX

  7) if/when approved--retain as NEW, but what then?

 Q: should we retain issues in BZ UX-advise, or change BZ component
to UI as now happens, or change to the affected LO component?
 Q: UI vs. specific component, any risk of losing track of
Design/UX recommendations?
 Q: should we track the BZ issues on the Wiki anyway?
 Q: for Devs seeking guidance, how to communicate design or UI
   decisions?
 Q: any need to convey prioritization of enhancement or UI change,
   or impact on UX?

And here are the guidelines now posted to the QA/Bug Triage Wiki

UX Enhancements

Any bugs which cover enhancements to the UI/UX of LibreOffice should be
given to the UX Team

Change the Component to ux-advise
Update the Status
If the request looks complete and plausible, Status - NEW
If the request seems incomplete or needs explaining, Status -
NEEDINFO

Leave a comment along the lines of:
UX Team -- please take a look at this enhancement. Thanks!

Happy to pick this up again in the new year if there is any more to be
resolved--we want folks to be happy with the arrangements. But more
importantly to feel welcome to participate on both QA and the UX /Design
reviews

Stuart



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[libreoffice-design] Re: RFE process between QA and UX

[V Stuart Foote]

@Sophi,  *,

Kendy may have a different take, but Design/UX elected to not try to do this
on Redmine.

The rub comes in that when posted to Bugzilla, the actions are opened
Unconfirmed.  But they are not issues requiring QA, although anyone should
fell welcome to comment and get involved from a UX perspective.

Guess issue can simply be set new on opening, and always assign to ux-advise
component.  Work flow would be to keep  these issues open (or maybe
needinfo) in ux-advise until Design/UX-advise folks agree to move it forward
for development, or close it out.

Having the proposal in bugzilla greatly simplifies review and discussion
during Design Hangouts.  But understand the QA thrash having the additional
bugs cluttering the stats--simple compromise as above.

Stuart



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[libreoffice-design] Re: Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2014-12-10

[V Stuart Foote]

Jan Holesovsky-4 wrote
 * Updating Help (Cor)
  
 + checking the paths for menu, contextmenu and toolbar mentions that
   are changed (Cor)
 + has a wikipage with the changes (Jay)
 + would be good to send the link to the document team (Kendy)
 AI  + send a mail to [hidden email] with
   the wiki page (Jay)

String changes to the UI are being captured to this Wiki
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/RecentStringChanges


 + the help is compiled (Steve)
 + checking this could be in the Moztrap too? (Steve)
 + Olivier has a meta-bug for help (Jay)
 + focusing on 4.5 now, more changes there than
 + https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86209#c6
   Have you thought in updating the help files to reflect the
   changes?
 + unfortunately the menu is tight to how the menus are organized
 (Stuart)
 + sequence  layout
  
 + unfortunately help is hard to edit (Kendy)
 + have a plan, but no time to implement, volunteers appreciated
 (Kendy)
 + need (trivial) searching implemented in JavaScript
 + php help - http://php.net/manual/en/ (Jay)
   downloadable version - http://php.net/download-docs.php
 + unfortunately no search :-( (Kendy)
 + ms office online help (Jay)
  
 https://support.office.com/en-in/article/Switch-transpose-columns-and-rows-ed1215f5-59af-47e6-953b-0b513b094dc2
   

Further to comments at the hangout, beyond just changes to strings and
labels, the structure of many of the compiled Help articles follow the
*sequence* UI elements appear in menus and dialogs. 

As can be seen by reviewing the cgit repo for LibreOffice  Help --
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/help/log/  there are documentation 
actions that have to also be performed in the Help (as well as passed out
for l10n/i18n translation). 

While it can seem a nuisance, every change to the UI  probably requires a
review of the corresponding compiled Help articles--the UX suffers
otherwise--and we've not been keeping that side of the UX up. 

The UI changes should occur, but as changes are being made in rapid
succession, the documentation team needs to be supported. Or better, either
propose the changes, or go ahead and make the commit to the Help at the same
time.

Stuart



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[libreoffice-design] Re: LO 4.4 sidebar preferences

[V Stuart Foote]

@r_ouellette,

Sidebar has opened by default since 4.3

Issue of which content panel/tab to open with --Properties or Styles 
Formatting-- is an open bugzilla item,
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65351
 
Sidebar related issues are tracked in this
meta--https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65138

Stuart




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[libreoffice-design] Re: Weekly Design Hangout: 2014-11-12

[V Stuart Foote]

Kendy, *,

So the  Design Wiki Meetings
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Meetings   item reads like
this...

*We hold a Weekly Hangout every Wednesday at 18:00 UTC / 19:00 CET via G+
Hangouts. See the design@ mailing list for details, a notification is sent
there every week. These calls are open to everyone who wishes to help.

Agenda is being collected over the week  here
http://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/design  . Minutes of the calls are
sent to the design@ mailing list.*

No problem reviewing the linked agenda in pad at
http://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/design, but really need the G+ Hangout
details and maybe how to get the invite obviously available on the Wiki.   

Also not to try to make more work for anyone, but for archival purposes (and
allowing folks to catch up when unable to attend)  we used to post the IRC
chat logs as Minutes to the Wiki.  Could we resume that archive with your
minutes as posted to ML--assume you already scrape anything germane out of
the #libreoffice-design channel during the meeting.   Also maybe post the
final post-meeting version of the agenda from pad at meeting end--prior to
clearing it for the next meeting?   Not as verbose as the IRC chat log
(thank goodness) but would then have sufficient records of what is coming
out of Design team meetings.

For any not subscribed to the Design ML, here is the last set of minutes for
the meeting the 5th: 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Minutes-of-the-Design-Hangout-2014-11-05-td4128271.html
The pad agenda and IRC chat log is not available.

Stuart



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[libreoffice-design] Re: (Proposal) New design for the ruler in LibreOffice

[V Stuart Foote]

@Bastián, *,

I've uploaded all your sample clips here to Nabble
Archive-6638.zip
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4127116/Archive-6638.zip  

WordPerfect, Papyrus, Scribus, Visio, Keynote, Inkscape, Dia, Caligra

I really do not follow what you are suggesting as a change for LibreOffice's
ruler(s). 

Our skeuomorph is drawn from an older manual typewriter--Left  Right margin
are hard set by page layout.  Then--per active paragraph--the paragraph
indent (the top triangle),  spacing before text and spacing after text (the
bottom triangles), and tab stops (spacing linked to the space before or
after, of various formats--left, right, or decimal) are adjusted.  But doing
this applying paragraph styles is much preferred because otherwise it is
just too dynamic.

It would be nice to have better tool tips for each. But the function and
appearance is correct.

Also, I would love to have option of full length cross hairs for positioning
and placement--as in a CAD program.

But I really do not see any major inadequacies to the design as is.  Could
you please elaborate on what you'd like to improve through redesign?

Regards,

Stuart



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[libreoffice-design] Re: New Color Picker

[V Stuart Foote]

Hillar,

Kristan has been active all summer with regular feedback from Devs and UX
folks.  Do a search in Nabble for Improved Color Selection

Regards the Design mailing list,  Design activity has been moved to a
Redmine  based work flow.  See https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/ where
you'll need to create an account and join the Design project.

I've linked this thread to the Redmine forums in Design.

Stuart




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[libreoffice-design] Re: Use of Redmine

[V Stuart Foote]

Kiss this mail list goodbye then.  Redmine and Wiki  process work well for
the Design collaboration(s). 

But, the Design meetings in IRC have been (continue to be) painful... would
like to see that improved.  Even reading the transcript of the meeting is
painful...

Some talk of Google/Talkyoo hangout for voice--but need better agendas and a
recording secretary to capture the mixed input from voice and IRC.

QA does the minutes and pre-meeting agendas with Etherpad.



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[libreoffice-design] StartCenter - filter MRU document thumbnails to show items for just one component

[V Stuart Foote [via Document Foundation Mail Archive]]

Folks,

Tabs for each LibreOffice component  on the StartCenter panel  were rejected
during the design process as aesthetically undesirable. 

However, as suggested by Jay Philips  in  fdo#80934 comment 3
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80934#c3   a capability to
filter the displayed most recently used (MRU) document thumbnails to just
one LO component would be a good UI enhancement.

While a mouse over event trigger  on hovering would work well for most
users, would also need to provide keyboard accelerator for AT tools support,
and other users that are are keyboard centric.

fdo#61174 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61174   remains
open for UX enhancements to the recent file list (File -- Recent
Documents), but this GUI enhancement to the StartCenter seems a very
reasonable goal, if its implementation in GTK+ UI  is feasible.

Stuart








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[libreoffice-design] Re: Revisiting our project workflow

[V Stuart Foote]

Mirek, *,

Regards para 1): why would there need to be a developer already in agreement
to start the process?  It would be nice if one, or more, were already on
board, but much of the argument for implementation actually comes from
fleshing out the details of what the enhancement should be.

Admittedly  a developer's understanding of the structure of the program and
cross platform implementation early in the process improves feasibility of
implementation and can provide reasonable  bounds to the design. But,
waiting for developers to appear and take an interest otherwise stifles
design.

On the other hand, if there is a reasonable flow of good designs from the
Design process that result in implementation then that flow becomes the
norm.  More developers will check-in to see what needs to be worked on,
and I'd expect that a fair number would actually make design contributions.  
As is now many do their own design work while implementing their code.

Stuart



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[libreoffice-design] Re: Light Blue for Non-printing characters

[V Stuart Foote]

Design team discussion has been finalized as noted in in bugzilla  fdo#80054
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80054   based on Design
meeting ML discussion and functional survey.

Design team is recommending replacement of rgb#6abed3, with rgb#268bd2
Solarized blue;  and to go ahead and implement a Tools - Options -
Appearance - Custom Colors  control of the NON_PRINTING_CHARACTER_COLOR
RGB_COLORDATA variable for those desiring to use it.

For comparison, here is a screen clip of the new default blue color compared
to the existing blue used on current 4.3.0 rc1 and master builds. 
default_NPC_color.png
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4114053/default_NPC_color.png 
.  




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[libreoffice-design] Re: Add a option for Page margin color (features-request)

[V Stuart Foote]

minhsien0330 wrote
 I have installed Libreoffice 4.3 rc1 on Debian Linux, but Writer has page
 margin color on it.
 
 Should I try 4.3 rc2 ?

Suspect it will make no difference for you.

But, perhaps try a different Desktop Environment or Window Manager with your
Debian installation, to see if rendering is more appealing.

Here is MS Windows 7 sp1 64-bit, en-US rendering at the LO 4.3.0.1 release.

http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4112892/page_430rc1_writer.png 

Stuart 




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[libreoffice-design] Re: Add a option for Page margin color (features-request)

[V Stuart Foote]

Confirm the addition of a noticeable boundary comparing 3.5.7 - 3.6.5 --And
FWIW Apache OpenOffice is even worse.
 
But, not seeing an issue with the current release of 4.3.0beta2 build on
Windows. Clip with current page rendering attached.
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4112760/page_430b2_writer.png 

Have you checked the issue against the pending 4.3 builds?

Stuart




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[libreoffice-design] Re: Startcenter

[V Stuart Foote]

@SURCOUF Bunty,

There was extensive discussion and prototyping of the Start Center as it
evolved.

You are welcome to review its history on the Design team's Wiki covering the 
Start Center found here:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Start_Center

Most simply put, the TAB page representation of recent document thumbnails
by type was dropped as a non-optimal GUI element for display of recently
used documents--shortly after it was implemented as a Google Summer of Code
project.

The code for TAB pages no longer exists in the Start Center, and has
continued flaws where implemented in the Template Manager.  It is not a
configurable option, and it is unlikely to be revived as a Start Center
recent documents GUI.




 



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[libreoffice-design] RE: The Sidebar Problem

[V Stuart Foote]

From: krackedpress
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 7:51 PM


Now the question - where is the side bar in LO?  I have latest non-RC
4.2.x and do not see a side bar anywhere.  Of course it could be a
long way off.


Open any component. Then View -- Sidebar. But, it can also be hidden, on right 
edge of screen, to right of vertical scroll bar there would be a 'Show' button 
vertically stretched along the edge.






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[libreoffice-design] Re: Start Center Niggles

[V Stuart Foote]

Jan Holesovsky-4 wrote
 Empty start center, with no documents:
 
 http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~kendy/design-list/startcenter-empty.png

With two text lines, can font for Welcome be bumped a couple points larger?
And could fonts be assigned a couple of complementary colors from the green
pallet to echo the SideBar --bolder for the Welcome (green 2), and subdued
for the sidebar use note (green 3)?


 You can see some differences to the design, most notably:
 
 - Create
   When playing with that, it started to annoy me that it is _above_ the
   separator line, and that it has smaller font size.  Also, it logically
   belongs to the group of the buttons, so I moved it there, gave it the
   same size as the button text, and added a colon.  I believe it works
   pretty well ;-)

+1



 - Open File
   I changed the pure 'Open' to 'Open File' - I think it goes better with
   the explanatory Writer Document / Calc Spreadsheet etc.

+1,  but the suggestion of adding a suitable Icon to the button--maybe to
the right of the label?


 - Thumbnails
   I considerably increased their size, and improved their drawing
   algorithm to antialias the pictures.  Also for the files that have no
   thumbnail, I made it look like the icon is on a piece of paper; looks
   much more consistently when there are more documents open.

+1, going to the nominal ~256px icons is the right choice.  On a full 1920 x
1080 pixel HD monitor we see 18 thumbnails and a vertical scroll bar to
uncover the rest of the 25 current limit.  I like the treatment for the
non-thumbnail available icons.   Might need to reduce the scale factor for 
the  Math .odf formulas, they are a bit too over size.

I've posted up a screen capture of a filled  thumbnail view with scroll bar
on that size display.

http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4088188/StartCenter_1920x1200HD_fully_populated_18-thumbnails_with_vertical_scroll.jpg
 


 Finally - there are still things to fix around accessibility, haven't
 changed a bit there; but that shouldn't be affected by the UI freeze, I
 still plan to have a look.

Good, I've got a laundry list--mostly with Widget sequencing, SC and
Template Manager.

Stuart



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[libreoffice-design] RE: Start Center Color Coding

[V Stuart Foote]

Miroslav,



Sorry for the top posting...



Hmm, colored shadows, under GNOME desktop style icon renderings... that might 
be neat. But my thought was a bit simpler and to just place the icons onto a 
square colored--subdued-- tile to match colors of the LibreOffice icon scheme.



I've posted up a mock-up with a 300px tile to hold the nominal 256px 
thumbnails stored with our ODF documents. The tile could be colored, or could 
be transparent and only for spacing (giving more the effect that GNOME Desktop 
gets).



Also cobbled together and used  a set of 256px colored/labeled  by document 
type icons for non-ODF types.  They're big, but done this way it is simpler to 
get completed.



Sorry for not getting it posted up sooner, busy week at work. Lost time hunting 
for the Vegur-plain sans font family to do the icons, would probably rework 
with M+ P1 family if the idea for document type icons gets approval.



Not sure I'll be joining the chat in the AM, just a tad early at 6:00 here in 
San Antonio Texas..



Stuart




From: mirek2 [via Document Foundation Mail Archive] 
ml-node+s969070n4086391...@n3.nabble.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 3:34 AM
To: V Stuart Foote
Subject: Start Center Color Coding

Hi guys,
We agreed on the IRC chat [1] that it'd be best if we kept thumbnails, but
used some form of color coding or possibly badging to differentiate them by
file type.
If you have an idea of what that could look like, please propose it at
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Start_Center#File_Type_Differentiation.

P.S. I know someone proposed colored shadows, but I can't find the mockup.
Please post it on the wiki.

[1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Meetings/2013-12-01







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[libreoffice-design] RE: Controversial topics for the start center

[V Stuart Foote]

Folks,

The LibreOffice Start Center has made the 4.2.0.0 beta cut, and has been 
implemented in the current beta1.  Little argument that it still requires 
additional design  UX-advise input for final 4.2.0 release form.

At the Design team IRC meeting last Sunday, Laurent L. and Miroslav (Mirek2) 
agreed for a need to take additional design input from the community -- Pro  
Con format using the Design Whitebaord for the Start Center.   Laurent got it 
started, and I've expanded it to now be as comprehensive of all prior work on 
the Start Center as possible.

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Start_Center

Please review the various meeting minuets,  mail-list discussions and other 
resources posted to the wiki. 

Astron, Mirek2 , Laurent, Emir, Mateusz and many others have contributed 
greatly.  But as this design process needs to be finalized, at this point we 
need all well-argued inputs as to changes still  to the existing LODev 
4.2.0.0beta1+ implementation consolidated into the Pro - Con comments on the 
Wiki for discussion at this Sunday's IRC Design meeting:  
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Meetings


Regards,

Stuart



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[libreoffice-design] Re: Welcome screen LO 4.2

[V Stuart Foote]

Jan Holesovsky-4 wrote
 bitigchi píše v Pá 15. 11. 2013 v 05:52 -0800:
 
 - On mouse hover button background is too alienated on OS X platform
 - A very light matte border between frames would make sense I think. 
 
 Overall, a bugreport with screenshots would be great :-)  Thanks for the
 testing!

Emir opened an issue as  FDO#71731
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71731  .




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[libreoffice-design] Re: Welcome screen LO 4.2

[V Stuart Foote]

Kendy,

If you get to looking at the font size on the StartCenter UI can you figure
out the disconnect in font size between your implementation and  Astron's
mock-up from the Design meeting 2013-11-10?

From  FDO#61914 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=61914  

Astron's mockup with content
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=89332

Your implementation
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=89334

If we can bring the fontsize down and include the file extensions in the
file name and tool-tip that would squelch some of the objections that folks
will be making regards elimination of the tab based file selection.

Stuart



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[libreoffice-design] Re: Start Center

[V Stuart Foote]

Kendy,

Mock up looks friendly, and I'm glad to see it make the feature freeze. I
will of course be testing next sets of daily's.

However, while the graphical layout has improved--we have miles to go to
correct keyboard navigation for no mouse use on this and other GTK+ based
UI elements (StartCenter, Template Manager, Sidebar... etc.).

Stuart



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[libreoffice-design] Re: Start Center

[V Stuart Foote]

So the first TB builds of the revised Startcenter design have posted.

Looks good!   Kind of miss being able to categorize the thumbnails--they all
look the same and neither the truncated filenames nor the tooltips show file
extension--so no visual or audible queue as to what the file is--may need
some refinement.

But the keyboard navigation is really a detractor.

Opened an issue  fdo#71628 -- new GTK+ UI start center keyboard navigation
not productive https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71628  .  Main
problem continues to be the mixed use of TAB and Cursor and lack of F6
movement between functional blocks/menus.




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