Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: behavior of new functions XLOOKUP and XMATCH

[Jan Dittrich]

Hi List,

> Combining parameter values for wildcard mode and binary search is 
possible. But there exist no way to actually do it. Excel gives an error 
messages in such cases. LibreOffice silently switches to linear search.


So the fix for the error is "do not to combine the parameters wildcard 
and binary search" and thus use linear search instead of binary?
Or can the error be caused by the kind of data (so that the flag 
combination that fails in Excel makes sense with some data but not with 
other kinds of data?)


If the error always has the same kind of fix (do not combine these 
parameters) no matter what data it works on, it seems that an error 
message makes a lot of sense.


Jan


Am 15.05.2024 um 02:03 schrieb Regina Henschel:

Hi Heiko,

I write to you directly too, because I don't know whether the design 
list allows attachments.


Heiko Tietze schrieb am 14.05.2024 um 08:21:

Correct me but

=XLOOKUP(C3;A$1:A$3;B$1:B$3;"INV";_3_;1) returns #VALUE! (Excel) or


The parameter Match_mode can only have the values
 0   exact match =,
 1   approximate match >=,
-1   approximate match <= and
 2   wildcard or regex match.
Value 3 is invalid.
Whether wildcard or regex is used, depends on the attributes 
table:use-regular-expressions and table:use-wildcards of the 
 element. That are the radio buttons in 
Tools > Options > Calc > Calculate > Formulas Wildcards.



Err:504 (LO)
=_Y_LOOKUP(C4;A$1:A$3;B$1:B$3;"INV";0;1) returns #NAME? (both)


There is no function YLOOKUP. The old versions are VLOOKUP and HLOOKUP.



What exactly will change?


I have attached the current state of the specification.

XLOOKUP function has more values for Match_mode and Search_mode than 
VLOOKUP and HLOOKUP.
XLOOKUP can work on separate arrays for LOOKUP and DATA, whereas 
VLOOKUP and HLOOKUP work on a rectangular range.

 ...and some more features.

The Excel help has some examples:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/xlookup-function-b7fd680e-6d10-43e6-84f9-88eae8bf5929 



The new function XLOOKUP has a parameter Search_mode. Its values can be
1   linear search from first item to last item
-1  linear search from last item to first item
2   binary search on an ascended sorted array
-2  binary search on an descended sorted array

The problem is, what should be the output, when the user sets 
Match_mode 2 together with Search_mode 2 or -2.


Kind regards,
Regina



PS: ux-advice@ is the forward mailing list from Bugzilla and I'm not 
sure how many people have registered. Rather use design@ for input 
from the UI/UX group.


On 14.05.24 12:23 AM, Regina Henschel wrote:

Hi UX-experts,

the new function XLOOKUP and XMATCH have a Match_mode with values 0, 
1, -1, 2 and a Search_mode with values 1, -1, 2, -2.
The Match_mode 2 means wildcard mode, that is ? * search or regular 
expressions search. The Search_modes 2 and -2 mean binary search in 
a sorted array.


Combining parameter values for wildcard mode and binary search is 
possible. But there exist no way to actually do it. Excel gives an 
error messages in such cases. LibreOffice silently switches to 
linear search.


The ODF TC is currently working on the specification for these new 
functions. The TC could either follow Excel's way or LibreOffice's 
way. From a developer state of view it is no large effort to change 
the current behavior of LibreOffice. The TC does not know yet 
whether Microsoft would be willing to switch to LibreOffice's behavior.


I write to you for to get your opinion what will be the best 
solution from a _user_ point of view.


Some arguments so far:
* No error message would make use of the functions in macros and 
forms easier.
* No error message might be better for using the functions in 
automatically calculations without UI.
* Using linear search can be unexpected slow on a huge Lookup_array. 
An error message makes the problem visible to the user.


I would love to hear your opinion.

Kind regards,
Regina












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Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Re: [libreoffice-design] Moving to LibreOffice 8?

[Jan Dittrich]

I think it is not helpful to see people we want to reach as "uninformed" 
or even "animals".


Sure, they are not as skilled/informed as we are about the topics that 
we care for. Unsurprisingly, we will have no clue about topics they 
deeply care for.


Jan


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Calc Survey

[Jan Dittrich]

Hello,

My thoughts on the survey:

1) GENDER

> If it is really-really necessary to ask…

I think it makes sense to ask for gender and age – if your survey only 
reaches male users aged 20-30 you want to know, as results will apply to 
this group then, but possibly not generalize well to other parts of the 
user community.


> discouraging for non-binary people

Indeed – I would suggest the following question:

My gender is…

- Female
- Male
- Non-binary
- Prefer to self-define: _

"other" is not considered good practice – needing to label oneself as 
belonging to what is marked as residual category.


An interesting and and hands-on overview of gender questions in survey 
can be found in Spiel at.al, 2019, acm interactions [1] though their 
suggested method might be a bit hard to analyze.


2) AGE

Stopping at "over 55"seems pretty young for an upper end. Quite some 
people who are in their mid-60s today will have used computers when they 
were 20 or so in case they went to university.
I recently did research in a relatively young community but "over 55" 
would have been the largest group, as the whole tail of the distribution 
would get in there, so just extend the scale.


4) FREQUENCY

I agree with Csongor here: I would suggest to ask for "once a month", 
"weekly" etc. here


An overview of these question types is at 
https://www.qualtrics.com/blog/measuring-behavioral-frequency/


13) SUS

In general, I would not change the wording or scale except we know that 
it is OK to do. Many changes one can and can not do to the SUS are 
researched.


The positive/negative reversal was researched and it turned out that you 
can, or rather should, use an all-positive version: "Researchers  who  
do  not  have  a  current  investment  in  the standard   SUS   can   
use   the   all   positive version   with confidence  because  
respondents  are  less  likely  to  make mistakes  when  responding,  
researchers  are  less  likely  to make errors in coding, and the scores 
will be similar to the standard SUS" Sauro, Lewis "When Designing 
Usability Questionnaires, Does It Hurt to Be Positive?"


Another change that is supported by data is replacing "cumbersome" with 
"awkward": James R. Lewis, Jeff Sauro:  The Factor Structure of the 
System Usability Scale,  2009


– Jan

[1] "How to do better with gender on surveys: a guide for HCI 
researchers" 
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/334073420_How_to_do_better_with_gender_on_surveys_a_guide_for_HCI_researchers



Am 06.07.2021 um 16:24 schrieb Csongor Halmai:

Hi All,

I wrote my response before reading the response of others and there is 
a little bit of overlapping. Sorry for that.


Here are my thoughts.

1.
I don't think the first question helps too much about the future of 
the LO. It is very discouraging for non-binary people. If it is 
really-really necessary to ask, let's put it to the end of the list. 
But the best would be to drop this question completely.


Similarly, the age also should be asked only at the end of the survey.

2.
A much more relevant question would be how long the person has been 
using computers. Are you 30 and started at the age of 10, or are you 
25 who started at 24? 30-10=20 is much more than 25-24=1.


3.
Instead of asking the age with non-continuous intervals, a much 
easier-to-grasp question would be "which year you were born in?".

- 1966 or before
- 1967-1976
- 1977-...

This is easier than expecting them to decide if 34.5 belongs to the 
25-34 or 35-44 group.



Here above I just converted the age limits to years but round year 
numbers are probably even better:

- before 1960
- 1960-1969
- 1970-1979
- 1980-1989
- 1990-1999
- 2000-2009
- 2010 or later

4.
The optional answer for the usage frequency are very hard to 
understand. Do I use LO Calc "All the time" if I use it every time 
when I need it, two times a year? Instead of these soft categories, I 
would be more exact:

- less than once in a year
- a couple of times in a year
- a couple of times in a month
- cca once a week
- almost every day
- several hours each workday (at least 4 days a week)

5.
The answers for Q7 (What is the size of your typical LibreOffice Calc 
dataset?) will be very hard to process. Instead of this opened 
question, I wold ask something like this:
- How many sheets you normally use in a Calc spreadsheet? Categories: 
always 1, 1-3, 2-5, more
- How many rows do you use in a Spreadsheet? Categories: <50, 50-500, 
500-5000, 5k-50k, more
- How many columns do you use in a Spreadsheet? Categories: <10, 
10-20, 20-50, more


6.
The row labels "Select 6 as youranswer choice" and "Select "No Answer" 
asyour answer choice" for Q9 seem to be a mistake.


7.
Typo: "Liner and Non-Linear Solvers" => "Linear and Non-Linear Solvers"

8.
"Please sel

[libreoffice-design] Re: Minutes from the UX/design meeting 2020-Sep-24

[Jan-Marek Glogowski]

Am 24.09.20 um 15:26 schrieb Heiko Tietze:
> Present: Sascha, Rohan, Rivan, Heiko
> Comments: Regina, Telesto, Maxim, Thomas, Maxim
> 
> Tickets/Topic 

  * StartCenter is inconsistent with dark theme(s)
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=136555

IMHO it's stuck ATM, so I thoght you would bring it up in the meeting.

Also with regard to the patch fixing:
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=134708

which should probably use the default anyway:

else if (IsControlForeground())
aColor = GetControlForeground();

There are two different patches currently proposed:
 - https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/103041
 - https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/c/core/+/103079

Not sure if there is solution, working in all cases on all platforms.

Jan-Marek

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[libreoffice-design] Fwd: Rework of Writer comments "button"

[Jan-Marek Glogowski]

Please CC libreoffice-des...@lists.freedesktop.org on replies. I didn't 
check the mail address.


 Originalnachricht 
Betreff: Rework of Writer comments "button"
Datum: 11.07.2019 17:21
Von: Jan-Marek Glogowski 
An: libreoff...@lists.freedesktop.org, 
libreoffice-des...@lists.freedesktop.org


Hi everybody,

an other query for a different problem :-)

While fixing tdf#126333 
(https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=126333) I found the 
current behavior of that pseudo button quite annoying. Not only forces 
it a repositioning of the displayed document, which probably can't be 
avoided, but it also moves the text and arrow of the button around.


So now there is as WIP / RfC: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/75421/

* cleanup code
* handle the arrow like a tree view
  * > = collapsed, v = expanded
* keeping the position of the arrow in front of the text
  * no more shifting of the text and arrow in the button
* replace many static values with (correct?) dynamic ones
* use highlight colors for mouse over

I tried to use the DecorationView::DrawButton, but that didn't work. I'm 
not sure this is even the right interface.


But there is still one major problem left: positioning of the button 
text in RTL. If you start LO with LANG=ar, the button text and arrow 
aren't visible, because they are outside of the view. As a workaround I 
left-aligned them together in case of collapsed comments in RTL in the 
patch.


But the problem would go away, if Writer would mirror the position of 
the comments too and would also show the button on the left side in RTL.


* How do other programs display comments when in RTL mode?
* Do you think moving the comments to the right is a good idea for RTL?
* I hope moving the "button" and comments wouldn't be that hard. Anyone 
knows that code and can comment on that?

* Is there a better way to draw this "button"?
* Any other opinions on the patch?
* Any option on the changed behavior?

Thanks

Jan-Marek

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[libreoffice-design] Fwd: How do various apps and DEs handle the primary selection?

[Jan-Marek Glogowski]

Forgot to CC design. Please reply also on the dev list.


 Weitergeleitete Nachricht 
Betreff: How do various apps and DEs handle the primary selection?
Datum: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 01:07:38 +0200
Von: Jan-Marek Glogowski 
An: libreoffice-dev 

Hi

I'm trying to gather information how various apps handle the primary selection,
so I can fix tdf#104717 [1]. There is already a patch for that in Gerrit[2].

The KDE applications I tested keep the primary alive, while they are running and
just clear it when they close. So I can select some text in kate and it'll stay
in the primary even, if I close the document containing the selected text.

AFAIK at least Writer, Calc and Draw use TransferableHelper::ClearSelection to
clear the selection. Writer clears the selection in many more places then either
Calc or Draw. See

$ git grep -B 5 -A 5 SwTransferable::ClearSelection sw

And Writer clears it when a Shell closes, while Calc (~ScTabView) and Draw
(:~View) clear it when the view is closed. But I'm a bit confused by the terms
Shell and View and then there is even a ViewShell...

IMHO we shouldn't handle the primary selection lifetime different from the
clipboard lifetime. When selecting stuff, the primary should stay alive, even if
I close the document or module, just like the normal clipboard. I don't see a
point of clearing the selection at all, except on application shutdown, when the
application won't be able to serve it anymore.

How do other applications you know handle the primary selection?

Jan-Marek

P.S. I use

$ watch -n 1 "xclip -selection clipboard -out; echo; xclip -selection primary 
-out"

to monitor the clibboard status. And if you want to test stuff, be sure to
disable clipboard managers, as these often copy stuff between the different
clipboards, also resulting in tdf#104717.

[1] https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104717
[2] https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/73906/
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[libreoffice-design] Re: LibreOffice ESC call, Thur - 16:00 central European (local) time

[Jan-Marek Glogowski]

Am October 30, 2018 9:29:57 AM UTC schrieb Michael Meeks 
:

>* Release Engineering update (Christian, Xisco)
>+ 6.0.7 rc3 status

I was told yesterday that 6.0.7 final is already tagged and out. If not, I ask 
to include the fix for tdf#119020 "Icons are corrupted on Windows when scaling 
UI / OpenGL" https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/62686/
It's actually not Windows specific and the fix is simple IMHO.

I have two additional bugs / patches for icon handling, where I would like to 
get input. Would appreciate some input from design and marketing. /me hopes for 
not much bike-shedding, so I added some proposals, which are hopefully 
acceptable.

1. Change the icon scaling algorithm quality from ::Fast to ::Default or ::Best 
quality in https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=121082
* Proposal: just try ::BestQuality in 6.2 and eventually revert, if it turns 
out to be too slow?
* Is a slow first start acceptable, like comments in tdf#119020 suggest?

2. Deliver SVG icon sets
 * SVG icons supported since 5.3, but we don't ship the icon sets
 ** https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=51733
 * Initial WIP patch: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/62706/
 ** See long commit message and additional comments
 * Proposal for 6.2: ship extra SVG variants, so a user can select them 
manually but still switch to PNGs on problems?
 ** Defaults to pixelated PNG scaling, as status quo
 * Current patch provides zips for the SVG directories and automates links.txt 
creation for them
 ** Should a user explicitly select SVG themes?
 ** Should SVG be the default, so we can get rid of the PNG icon sets, if SVGs 
exist?
  ** Or automatic fallback, when we need to scale, so we combine both types in 
a zip? Icon may change when scaling.
  ** Are the PNG variants actually pre-created from SVG?
  ** For OpenGL scaling is actually done in HW with shaders.

I won't make it to ESC today.

Jan-Marek


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Banner for AMA and 6.1 release

[jan d]

If site is not clear yet - can an example banner be given? - that way, the
designer would know that this format has worked already.

Jan

Heiko Tietze  schrieb am Di., 24. Juli 2018, 17:05:

> Of course ASAP (AMA is scheduled a week after release of 6.1 which is in
> the week Aug-06 to 12). Size has not been specified, it's supposed to be
> placed on our website.
>
> On 24.07.2018 17:44, K-J LibreOffice wrote:
> > Am 24.07.2018 um 17:40 schrieb Heiko Tietze:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I got asked if the design team can prepare a nice advertising banner
> for the upcoming Ask-Me-Anything (AMA) session on Reddit. We could combine
> this with an announcement to the 6.1 release - so far there is no new
> artwork at all. The cubes are not on discussion until 7.0 but maybe we can
> play with the basic idea. Creative people, stand up please.
> >
> > Timeline (except "ASAP")?
> > Sizes?
> >
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the design meeting 2018/Mar/28

[jan]

I would go with the tabbed bar.

* It is somewhat scalable (e.g. for potential addons ) by adding tabs if
really needed.
* It is similar to the MS office style
** It makes it easier for people who want to switch from MSO
** It can be a good argument for decision makers that it is like
applications people know.
** I assume MS made quite some effort to get the ribbon concept right so
doing something similar is likely to be a good idea.

All this might be better estimated with a usability test comparing the
alternatives in depth, but as long as we did not do this, I would
suggest above reasoning.

Jan

Am 29.03.2018 um 18:23 schrieb Heiko Tietze:
> On 29.03.2018 18:02, Pedro Rosmaninho wrote:
>> IMO, the Groupedbar should be the chosen one.
>> Here are the reasons why I think it is the most suited one:
>> 1 - *It has a unique look among Office suites
>> 2 - It's distinctive from the Ribbon UI
> 
> That was my question. Personally I wouldn't go with the Groupedbar because it 
> has no advantage over classic toolbars, there is a lot of unclear movement, 
> and I doubt that Benjamin find his way easily through the options. Not saying 
> it's bad design.
> 
> And your reasons are different from the originally discussed idea to make it 
> easy to switch from other programs: "It's encouraged to have Notebookbars 
> that simulate alternative programs but "crazy" ideas with completely new UI 
> approaches are also welcome."
> 
> But it's up to the community, which is first the design team. So more 
> opinions please.
> 
> 

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the design meeting 2018/Mar/28

[jan]

The reason may got lost in the mail –

> …Otherwise we let the user make a decision hard to take
> (what does each option do?).
> We are in a better position to at least determine
> what is most useful most of the time.

Jan

Am 29.03.2018 um 17:52 schrieb Heiko Tietze:
> On 29.03.2018 17:30, jan wrote:
>> ... it would make sense to have one version which is the "standard" ...
> 
> Not opposing the idea but what variant should become the standard and why?
> 
> Btw: There will be no switch but the menu "User interface" (replacing the 
> current "Toolbar Layout" and "Notebookbar" items) with submenu items Standard 
> Toolbar, Single Toolbar, Sidebar... and all variants of the Notebookbar after 
> a separator. 
> 
> 

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the design meeting 2018/Mar/28

[jan]

I agree – while it may be not possible to guarantee that a "official"
variant will be fixed in time, it would make sense to have one version
which is the "standard" so that efforts can be focused.

– It might be hard to consider all variants all the time when doing
changes, same would go for usability tests.
– And if the notbookbar becomes standard or at least LO gets a "switch
to notebookbar" button, there needs to be a version that appears.
Otherwise we let the user make a decision hard to take (what does each
option do?). We are in a better position to at least determine what is
most useful most of the time.

Jan

Am 29.03.2018 um 15:36 schrieb Pedro Rosmaninho:
> Considering that the Notebookbar is maturing and reaching a maturity point
> where it is stable, it would be interesting if there was an official UX
> team variant developed and improved upon by everyone here. It wouldn't have
> to be the default UI, but something that the UX team would answer to bugs
> and fix them.
> 
> The variants included by default with LO should be supported and fixed by
> the UI team. Otherwise there'll be a bunch of bug reports about something
> that is not officially supported.
> 
> On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 2:27 PM, Heiko Tietze 
> wrote:
> 
>>
>> On 29.03.2018 15:04, Pedro Rosmaninho wrote:
>>> Can I just ask one small thing that I have doubts on?
>>> Is there no "official" UI design team Notebookbar option?
>>
>> The contextual group variant has a foundation [1] but there is nothing
>> specific for the other variants, which is bad for transparency and
>> testability. And I have no other idea how to tackle the "official" aspect.
>>
>> [1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/ToolBar
>>
>>
>> (Removed project from x-post)
>>
>>
> 

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Branding for our Nextcloud start screen

[jan]

>> My first idea was to take a picture of the developers waving to the
>> user, blurry in the background. Draft is attached to the Redmine
>> ticket at https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/issues/2512.

Looks good to me. I wonder if the tone of gree is good, it is yet 
another hue to the several existing ones.
Could you share the original file, so others could give a try with some 
incremental ideas?


Jan




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Re: [libreoffice-design] Branding 6.0

[jan]

Hi K-J,

I like the take on the cubes. The gray gradient in the background,
though has the typical problem of simple rectangular gradients: It looks
star-ish for some reason (optical illusion?). Probalby it is better to
gaussian-blur it or so.

Jan


Am 25.07.2017 um 07:53 schrieb K-J LibreOffice:
> Hi all,
> Heiko provided the new series 6 for branding [1]. Thanks for that.
> 
> I played a little bit with the image [2] and the banner [3]. It isn't
> final but only a proposal to work with if you are interested.
> 
> IMO we should be consequent in our design and leave the "5" branding.
> 
> 
> [1]
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#LibreOffice_6.0_series
> 
> [2]
> https://demo.collaboracloudsuite.com/tdfnextcloud/index.php/s/pTkY6KEStGEpQVo
> 
> [3]
> https://demo.collaboracloudsuite.com/tdfnextcloud/index.php/s/PH8qtbIed8o3NPD
> 
> 
> 
> 


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Updated LibreOffice donate page on website for beautifying

[jan]

Hi Mike,

Thanks!

Is the code on github? I would like to do some minor adjustments in the
CSS so that the margins and cross browser styles are improved.

Jan

Am 04.05.2017 um 16:17 schrieb Mike Saunders:
> Hi Jan,
> 
> Just to let you know that I've finally had time to work on a HTML and
> CSS version of this:
> 
> https://www.libreoffice.org/assets/Uploads/donate-newdesign.html
> 
> It's not quite as pretty as your mockup, but I think most of the content
> is there and this implementation doesn't use JavaScript which is a bonus.
> 
> We'll look at implementing it into the main donate page now.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike
> 
> 
> On 22/04/2017 14:49, jan wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Is there progress on this issue and/or anything I could help with?
>> Or has it been stalled?
>>
>> Jan


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[libreoffice-design] discourse for designers in open source projects

[jan]

Hello Libreoffice Designers,

To connect the diverse comunity of designers in open source projects
better, we set up http://discourse.opensourcedesign.net/

The project is community ran and made by pretty much the same people who
organize the opensource design rooms at FOSDEM and FOSSAsia.

Would be happy if you join,
 Jan D.

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Updated LibreOffice donate page on website for beautifying

[jan]

Hi,

Is there progress on this issue and/or anything I could help with?
Or has it been stalled?

Jan

Am 03.04.2017 um 13:22 schrieb Mike Saunders:
> Hi Jan, Heiko,
> 
> Firstly Jan, thanks a lot for your mockups! Great work.
> 
> On 02/04/2017 20:50, jan wrote:
>>
>> Based on Heikos ideas (or at least how I understood them)
>> here a super simple version: http://imgur.com/a/jxYK7
> 
> I like that, and the previous (slightly more complex version). Note that
> there are a few things we do need to keep in the design, namely:
> 
> 1) "(currencies marked with * are also available via PayPal)" - or we
> disable PayPal when certain currencies are checked, but that may be
> confusing without an explanation
> 
> 2) Yearly/quarterly/monthly recurring payment options - at least at the
> start, while we do our testing. This could be a drop-down box.
> 
> 3) The text saying why it's important to donate (like in
> http://imgur.com/a/IVMEj and my mockup). We could, of course, put it
> above the donate box itself.
> 
> So a compromise between http://imgur.com/a/IVMEj and the simpler design
> would make the most sense, I feel. Thanks again Jan for your work!
> 
> Mike
> 


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Numbering & Bullets

[jan]

Hello,

Intuitively, I would say, my biggest issue with the bullets is that they
are big and ugly*: Most of the standard ones have a very high visual
weight (darker than the usual fonts) so they will stick out a lot and in
most cases don't match the style of the main font you have chosen. Not
to talk about the default image ones (shapes in bright colors).

So if we could swap one or two huge arrows for a simple en-dash (–) or a
font-sized arrow (→) it might already be an improvement typography-wise.


Jan

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Numbering & Bullets

[jan]

> has also a high relevance in the Nantes user interviews, not
> knowing the details though.

Great that this is backed up by research! Is there some transcript or
summary of the interviews/their analysis available?

Jan

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Updated LibreOffice donate page on website for beautifying

[jan]

Hi,

To get the grasp of it I recreated a version similar to yours, using the
elements I already had:

imgur.com/a/XxFhK

I find it nice that it reads more natural ("once 10€");
I found it to need more space vertically than the other version in order
to make the grouping of the steps clear.

Which performs better could be a good question for an AB-test.

Jan


Am 03.04.2017 um 20:11 schrieb Anxhelo Lushka:
> Hi, I also made a version that I think might be easier for the user to
> go through
> 
> http://imgur.com/AQQXLRQ
> 
> Opinions are welcome :)
> 
> 
> On 04/03/2017 07:30 PM, jan wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Next iteration: http://imgur.com/a/zyPNq
>>
>> 1) PayPal/Currencies: The button will gray out and have "No Paypal for
>> selected Currency" on it. (Font needs to be a bit smaller, but it works)
>> Note, that the PayPal Button swapped place with credit card so it aligns
>> with the currency dropdown, so the connection is (hopefully) clear.
>>
>> 2) Repeated Donations: I added a dropdown.
>>
>> 3) Text was added
>>
>> Jan
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 03.04.2017 um 13:22 schrieb Mike Saunders:
>>> Hi Jan, Heiko,
>>>
>>> Firstly Jan, thanks a lot for your mockups! Great work.
>>>
>>> On 02/04/2017 20:50, jan wrote:
>>>> Based on Heikos ideas (or at least how I understood them)
>>>> here a super simple version: http://imgur.com/a/jxYK7
>>> I like that, and the previous (slightly more complex version). Note that
>>> there are a few things we do need to keep in the design, namely:
>>>
>>> 1) "(currencies marked with * are also available via PayPal)" - or we
>>> disable PayPal when certain currencies are checked, but that may be
>>> confusing without an explanation
>>>
>>> 2) Yearly/quarterly/monthly recurring payment options - at least at the
>>> start, while we do our testing. This could be a drop-down box.
>>>
>>> 3) The text saying why it's important to donate (like in
>>> http://imgur.com/a/IVMEj and my mockup). We could, of course, put it
>>> above the donate box itself.
>>>
>>> So a compromise between http://imgur.com/a/IVMEj and the simpler design
>>> would make the most sense, I feel. Thanks again Jan for your work!
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>
> 
> 


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Updated LibreOffice donate page on website for beautifying

[jan]

Am 03.04.2017 um 20:12 schrieb Mike Saunders:

> IMO that looks really good! What have you used to make this design? Is
> there any HTML / CSS behind it right now, or is it just a mock-up?

Thanks! I created it in Inkscape, but it should not be too hard to
translate it to a webdesign. It will need some knowledge of CSS3.

Jan


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Updated LibreOffice donate page on website for beautifying

[jan]

Hi,

Next iteration: http://imgur.com/a/zyPNq

1) PayPal/Currencies: The button will gray out and have "No Paypal for
selected Currency" on it. (Font needs to be a bit smaller, but it works)
Note, that the PayPal Button swapped place with credit card so it aligns
with the currency dropdown, so the connection is (hopefully) clear.

2) Repeated Donations: I added a dropdown.

3) Text was added

Jan



Am 03.04.2017 um 13:22 schrieb Mike Saunders:
> Hi Jan, Heiko,
> 
> Firstly Jan, thanks a lot for your mockups! Great work.
> 
> On 02/04/2017 20:50, jan wrote:
>>
>> Based on Heikos ideas (or at least how I understood them)
>> here a super simple version: http://imgur.com/a/jxYK7
> 
> I like that, and the previous (slightly more complex version). Note that
> there are a few things we do need to keep in the design, namely:
> 
> 1) "(currencies marked with * are also available via PayPal)" - or we
> disable PayPal when certain currencies are checked, but that may be
> confusing without an explanation
> 
> 2) Yearly/quarterly/monthly recurring payment options - at least at the
> start, while we do our testing. This could be a drop-down box.
> 
> 3) The text saying why it's important to donate (like in
> http://imgur.com/a/IVMEj and my mockup). We could, of course, put it
> above the donate box itself.
> 
> So a compromise between http://imgur.com/a/IVMEj and the simpler design
> would make the most sense, I feel. Thanks again Jan for your work!
> 
> Mike
> 


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Updated LibreOffice donate page on website for beautifying

[jan]

I like the dropdown idea, and we should carefully AB test the "minimal"
design with the one that has all the preset controls, since the latter
is pretty similar to  what Wikimedias and Mozillas forms do (at least
Wikimedias raises a lot, but let's see, maybe the simple approach fares
better!)

Jan


Am 02.04.2017 um 21:45 schrieb Heiko Tietze:
> Exactly like this. The "monthly" could be a dropdown with (weekly), 
> quarterly, yearly etc. Just for discussion.
> @Mike: CC @marketing?
> 
> On 04/02/2017 08:50 PM, jan wrote:
>> Based on Heikos ideas (or at least how I understood them)
>> here a super simple version: http://imgur.com/a/jxYK7
>>
>> Jan
>>
>>
>> Am 02.04.2017 um 17:26 schrieb Heiko Tietze:
>>> Big plus for the easy to recognize links. Other than that we should
>>> consider to make it even more simple. No recurring transaction, one
>>> input field with 10 as default, and next to it the currency. And a less
>>> blatant font (if you are at this page the disclaimer on top is way too
>>> much info).
>>> Many thanks for your mockup, Jan!
>>>
>>> On April 2, 2017 4:50:32 PM GMT+02:00, jan  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Mike,
>>>
>>> Here an updated proposal design-wise:
>>>
>>>  http://imgur.com/a/IVMEj
>>>
>>> (it should be easy enough to implement in its basic form. Some added
>>> Javascrip-foo will make it easier to use)
>>>
>>> Notes:
>>>
>>> * I integrated most like Jan suggested, on one page
>>>
>>> * I ditched the "robot"-captcha. It is easy to reintegrate, but as long
>>> as we are not sure we really need it, I would not use it, since it can
>>> slow the process of donating down.
>>>
>>> * I suggest the eMail field should come after the donation has been
>>> finished, so we don’t create the impression that you need to enter your
>>> mail to donate (and we can add information on why the mail may be
>>> entered without cluttering the mail donation form)
>>> If we really need it on the first page, we can integrate it there, 
>>> though.
>>>
>>> Kind Regards,
>>>  Jan
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 31.03.2017 um 14:48 schrieb Mike Saunders:
>>>
>>> Hi Jan,
>>>
>>> On 30/03/2017 23:08, jan wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 1) What is the "I'm not a robot" for?
>>>
>>>
>>> That's a captcha -- it's in the current donate process so I
>>> thought I'd
>>> keep it in. (I don't know the exact reason it was added originally.)
>>>
>>> 2) What is asking for the mail address for? (I would like to
>>> know about
>>> is for the design, but I think the users want to know, too)
>>>
>>>
>>> It's for getting a confirmation / thank-you mail from TDF once the
>>> donation is complete. I could add some text to mention that...
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
> 


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Updated LibreOffice donate page on website for beautifying

[jan]

Will this actually replace the current Interface of
http://donate.libreoffice.org/?

Jan


Am 31.03.2017 um 14:48 schrieb Mike Saunders:
> Hi Jan,
> 
> On 30/03/2017 23:08, jan wrote:
>>
>> 1) What is the "I'm not a robot" for?
> 
> That's a captcha -- it's in the current donate process so I thought I'd
> keep it in. (I don't know the exact reason it was added originally.)
> 
>> 2) What is asking for the mail address for? (I would like to know about
>> is for the design, but I think the users want to know, too)
> 
> It's for getting a confirmation / thank-you mail from TDF once the
> donation is complete. I could add some text to mention that...
> 
> Mike
> 


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Updated LibreOffice donate page on website for beautifying

[jan]

Based on Heikos ideas (or at least how I understood them)
here a super simple version: http://imgur.com/a/jxYK7

Jan


Am 02.04.2017 um 17:26 schrieb Heiko Tietze:
> Big plus for the easy to recognize links. Other than that we should
> consider to make it even more simple. No recurring transaction, one
> input field with 10 as default, and next to it the currency. And a less
> blatant font (if you are at this page the disclaimer on top is way too
> much info).
> Many thanks for your mockup, Jan!
> 
> On April 2, 2017 4:50:32 PM GMT+02:00, jan  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mike,
> 
> Here an updated proposal design-wise:
> 
>  http://imgur.com/a/IVMEj
> 
> (it should be easy enough to implement in its basic form. Some added
> Javascrip-foo will make it easier to use)
> 
> Notes:
> 
> * I integrated most like Jan suggested, on one page
> 
> * I ditched the "robot"-captcha. It is easy to reintegrate, but as long
> as we are not sure we really need it, I would not use it, since it can
> slow the process of donating down.
> 
> * I suggest the eMail field should come after the donation has been
> finished, so we don’t create the impression that you need to enter your
> mail to donate (and we can add information on why the mail may be
> entered without cluttering the mail donation form)
> If we really need it on the first page, we can integrate it there, though.
> 
> Kind Regards,
>  Jan
> 
> 
> Am 31.03.2017 um 14:48 schrieb Mike Saunders:
> 
> Hi Jan,
> 
> On 30/03/2017 23:08, jan wrote:
> 
> 
> 1) What is the "I'm not a robot" for?
> 
> 
> That's a captcha -- it's in the current donate process so I
> thought I'd
> keep it in. (I don't know the exact reason it was added originally.)
> 
> 2) What is asking for the mail address for? (I would like to
> know about
> is for the design, but I think the users want to know, too)
> 
> 
> It's for getting a confirmation / thank-you mail from TDF once the
> donation is complete. I could add some text to mention that...
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Updated LibreOffice donate page on website for beautifying

[jan]

Hi Mike,

Here an updated proposal design-wise:

http://imgur.com/a/IVMEj

(it should be easy enough to implement in its basic form. Some added
Javascrip-foo will make it easier to use)

Notes:

* I integrated most like Jan suggested, on one page

* I ditched the "robot"-captcha. It is easy to reintegrate, but as long
as we are not sure we really need it, I would not use it, since it can
slow the process of donating down.

* I suggest the eMail field should come after the donation has been
finished, so we don’t create the impression that you need to enter your
mail to donate (and we can add information on why the mail may be
entered without cluttering the mail donation form)
If we really need it on the first page, we can integrate it there, though.

Kind Regards,
 Jan


Am 31.03.2017 um 14:48 schrieb Mike Saunders:
> Hi Jan,
> 
> On 30/03/2017 23:08, jan wrote:
>>
>> 1) What is the "I'm not a robot" for?
> 
> That's a captcha -- it's in the current donate process so I thought I'd
> keep it in. (I don't know the exact reason it was added originally.)
> 
>> 2) What is asking for the mail address for? (I would like to know about
>> is for the design, but I think the users want to know, too)
> 
> It's for getting a confirmation / thank-you mail from TDF once the
> donation is complete. I could add some text to mention that...
> 
> Mike
> 


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Updated LibreOffice donate page on website for beautifying

[jan]

Am 29.03.2017 um 18:25 schrieb Jan Holesovsky:

> + if we cannot do recurring payments with credit cards, just disable
>   the "pay by credit card" button for the non-One-time payments

Can we do this? (we would need to runs a snippet of Javascript, I assume)

> * the "I'm not a robot" and "Your email address" can easily fit the 1st
>   page too I think?

Agree, we should do so. And also:

1) What is the "I'm not a robot" for?
2) What is asking for the mail address for? (I would like to know about
is for the design, but I think the users want to know, too)

Jan


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Updated LibreOffice donate page on website for beautifying

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi Mike,

Mike Saunders píše v Čt 30. 03. 2017 v 15:49 +0200:

> Yes, that's the plan. Once we have a design we're happy with, Cloph will
> add it to Silverstripe and implement A/B testing to see how it works
> (and also with default donation values).

Awesome - thank you so much for driving this!

All the best,
Kendy


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Updated LibreOffice donate page on website for beautifying

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi Mike,

Mike Saunders píše v St 29. 03. 2017 v 13:01 +0200:
 
> > It seems to be best practice (at least looking at Wikimedia and Mozilla)
> > to combine the "next" button with the choice of payment
> > (https://donate.mozilla.org/en-US/)
> > 
> > Could this be done here, too, or can we only pass the amount on to
> > SilverStripe?
> 
> I'm not sure about that to be honest -- I know very little about
> SilverStripe.

So there are things I like about the Mozilla's approach, and things I
like about your approach :-)

What I like about the Mozilla's approach is that all the choices are
accumulated at one place, with a clear "press here to get this done".

What I like about your approach is that you pre-select the amount for
the user (Mozilla instead warns you when you press the button without
choosing 

If we combine the two, I think we have the ideal workflow here - the
only choice the user has to do is "do I want to pay with a card or with
Paypal"?

So - can you please remove the 2nd screen, and instead:

* use radio buttons One time / Monthly [and maybe Quarterly / Yearly -
  if we really want them there] directly on the 1st screen

+ if we cannot do recurring payments with credit cards, just disable
  the "pay by credit card" button for the non-One-time payments

* the "I'm not a robot" and "Your email address" can easily fit the 1st
  page too I think?

> > Also, can we run Javascript to enable/disable inputs or show Icons –
> > e.g. a blue PayPal logo if PP is availiable for the choosen currency and
> > a grayed out version of the logo, if PP it is not? (just to give an example)
> > 
> > I got some rough draft (https://postimg.org/image/5oe3x1ucj/) and the
> > direction depends a bit on above questions.
> 
> That looks good! I'm not a web designer so all I know is basic HTML and
> CSS, and our current donate page is rather old so I came up with my
> mockup. (Hence why it's not responsive to different dimensions as well).

I hope that if you just avoid hardcoding dimensions, all should be fine?
But something should be there, on the 2nd page, the "Quarterly" does not
fit the button; and with translations this is going to be even worse.

> If someone wants to take the idea and improve it like in your draft,
> however, that'd be great! It's obviously something we want to get right,
> as it's a big source of income for TDF and the community...

Indeed - so I hope we are going to A/B test the new design to compare
against the old one? :-)

All the best,
Kendy


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Updated LibreOffice donate page on website for beautifying

[jan]

…one thing I forgot to ask: Is the width of the donate box fixed or can
it vary (in particular concerning mobile devices)

Jan

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Updated LibreOffice donate page on website for beautifying

[jan]

Hi Mike,

It seems to be best practice (at least looking at Wikimedia and Mozilla)
to combine the "next" button with the choice of payment
(https://donate.mozilla.org/en-US/)

Could this be done here, too, or can we only pass the amount on to
SilverStripe?

Also, can we run Javascript to enable/disable inputs or show Icons –
e.g. a blue PayPal logo if PP is availiable for the choosen currency and
a grayed out version of the logo, if PP it is not? (just to give an example)

I got some rough draft (https://postimg.org/image/5oe3x1ucj/) and the
direction depends a bit on above questions.
    
Jan


Am 28.03.2017 um 13:04 schrieb Mike Saunders:
> Hi Jan,
> 
> On 27/03/2017 19:03, jan wrote:
>>
>> Are you interested in Usability feedback on the form or are you purely
>> interested in colors/fonts?
> 
> If there's anything you think we can improve without starting from
> scratch, then yes, that would be useful! Especially if you can do a
> mockup or make changes to the HTML / CSS.
> 
>> Also, is the second page (after clicking next) functional? (I found it a
>> bit confusing, but it might be the case that it is just not finished or
>> working for me)
> 
> Yes, sorry, I should've explained that -- the second page won't do
> anything yet because that will need to be integrated into SilverStripe
> and the donation payment systems.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Mike
> 


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Updated LibreOffice donate page on website for beautifying

[jan]

Hi Mike,

Are you interested in Usability feedback on the form or are you purely
interested in colors/fonts?

Also, is the second page (after clicking next) functional? (I found it a
bit confusing, but it might be the case that it is just not finished or
working for me)

Jan


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Re: [libreoffice-design] System theme or branded theme

[jan]

Hello,

I like that concerns like:
- almost invisible elements
- color clashes
- Icon sizes…
are tackled.

However, I think it is still important to play along the basic visual
rules of the host OS. Firefox, as you [Heiko] mentions, archives a good
compromise there: It always looks like Firefox, but it blends in really
well and will adapt the basic colors of the host OS.

Jan

Am 24.03.2017 um 22:15 schrieb Heiko Tietze:
> In tdf#106756 [1] the fundamental idea to blend LibreOffice well into the 
> system theme is challenged. While we may be able to solve most of the issues 
> the idea is tempting to have a unique look and feel with the possibility to 
> customize the default according the system. Something like Mozilla does in 
> Firefox with Auralis [2].
> 
> Would be good to get opinions on the ticket.
> 
> [1] https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=106756
> [2] 
> https://blog.mozilla.org/ux/2013/11/australis-is-landing-in-firefox-nightly/
> 


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2017-Mar-23

[jan]

Am 23.03.2017 um 13:22 schrieb Heiko Tietze:
> +++ MEETING TIME NEXT WEEK IS 12:00 GMT+1 DST / 10am UTC +++
>  * Prototyping tool
>* We want to use a tool where different people/groups can easily cooperate
>* Do we want to use closed-software (which is today much better)?
>Closed software
>  + http://balsamiq.com/ (used for most of the mockups so far)
>  Providing interactivity, export to html/javascript, requirements etc.
>  + https://www.justinmind.com/ (got in contact with the company and they 
> offer good conditions)
>  + https://www.axure.com/
>Open Source
>  + http://pencil.evolus.vn/
>  + http://draw.io/ (?)
>Ultimately
>  + LibreOffice Draw (Eat own dog food)

Some brief notes on the prototyping tools:
* http://pencil.evolus.vn/: In the past there was few communication with
the team/person behind it and the code was practically unreadable for
outsiders (or at least for me). Did not increase my trust in this
actually pretty nice tool.
* http://draw.io/ integrates well into google drive (or other cloud
solutions) which makes it useful for me, even if it is not a dedicated
wireframing tool.
* One could reach out to the UXBox people:
https://github.com/uxbox/uxbox/ they are actively developing.
* LibreOffice Draw: I tried that, and was semi-happy: My main issues
were lack of auto-snapping/aligning with other objects [1], no quick
duplicate via ctrl+D [2] (there is an elaborate duplicate tool, but no
non-elaborate way) and the lack of multicolored shapes for creating
nice, pre-made widget shapes [3]

Jan

[1] https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100141
[2] https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100028
[3] https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=103298

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[libreoffice-design] Fwd: Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2017-Jan-05

[Jan Iversen]

ups forgot reply all.



>> 
>> * Blog post draft about DYI Notebookbar
>>  + 
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-BDSr-FfOjwNEFwdgdx75OYja8aAueMcio099DjnLF0
>>  + Not really needed since the procedure will likely change (Jay)
>>  + Making people curious is always good (Heiko)
> As we spoke earlier, seen from a dev. pow, I have a problem with the last 
> sentence, we are not looking forward to have many notebook bars in our repo. 
> You said you would add a sentence about that.
> 
> Rgds
> jan I.
> 
> 


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[libreoffice-design] Re: Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2016-Sep-30

[Jan Iversen]

> On 30 Sep 2016, at 15:00, Heiko Tietze  wrote:
> 
> Present: Kendy, Samuel, Heiko, Italo
> 
> Decision needed
> 
> * Ideas to send out an email with a few topics to discuss before the hangout 
> is welcome
>   + please add proposals with easy decisions into this pad (first example is 
> good, second too complex)
>   + avoid zombie tickets waiting for long time at bugzilla (kendy)
>   + fresh and painful stuff preferred
> * Single vs. Double click in start center 
> (https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102238 )
>   + double click felt unnatural for recent files and was changed therefore 
> (kendy)
>   + multi-selection is not needed anymore
>   + template _manager_ for advanced stuff (samuel)
>   + recommend to go with single click (kendy, samuel) => decision made
>   + context menu could be replaced by "inline interactions" that are shown on 
> hover (like delete for recent files)
> 
> * Better font selection ( 
> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98817 )
>   + ideas appreciated, better write a couple of short requests (kendy)
>   + as with other bugreports, one bug per request preferred
>   + list fonts by similarity opens a huge issue, as a table with font 
> equivalents
> (open vs proprietary, visually similar vs metrically compatible) may 
> easily exceed 600 lines (Italo)
> 
> Organization
> 
> * Feature freeze for 5.3: Nov-21
> * Easyhacks do not require NEEDING anymore
but needsDevEval instead.
And please do not forget to fill in topic if applicable, skill if 
known it makes life easier for me.

thanks
jan I.

> * Annual report needs to get filled 
> (http://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/annualreport)
>   + Blog posts, User surveys, UX mentor... (samuel) 
> * Community weeks planned in October: Input from design team will be requested
> 
> 
> ___
> LibreOffice mailing list
> libreoff...@lists.freedesktop.org
> https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice


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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2016-Aug-26

[Jan Holesovsky]

Very short meeting today:

Present: Heiko, Kendy, Jay (but with technical problems)

Google Summer of Code

  * @all GSoC students: ESC asks for documentation of UI changes, which
is important and required, please write at least a few bullet points
and get in touch with the docu team (@ohallot, #libreoffice-doc)
+ Acknowledged
PLEASE SUMBIT HELP/DOCUMENTATION/RELEASE NOTES TO DOCUMENTATION TEAM!

  * Suggested contents (Olivier):
  + Short introduction
  + How to access the function/feature, toolbar, menu, kbd
  + Description of the feature (the more the better)
  + Tips, warnings
  + Related topics
 
All the best,
Kendy


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Re: Fwd: [libreoffice-design] LibreOffice Remote Icons

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi Cloph,

Mirek Mazel píše v So 20. 08. 2016 v 15:33 +0200:
> Alright, finally done.
> However, the Play Store icon will still need to be updated, and I'd like to
> put the icon sources somewhere as well. Where, and who do I contact about
> the store?

Mirek has new icons for the Android remote, can you please work with him
get them to the Google Play?

Thank you,
Kendy


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[libreoffice-design] Re: [libo-marketing-priv] Blog post to involve esyhackers

[jan iversen]

> On 15 Jun 2016, at 13:30, Mike Saunders 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Heiko,
> 
> That's a great idea. I've gone through the blog post and cleaned up a bit of 
> the English. As Cor notes, it's a good idea to present the easy hacks as fun, 
> and highlight from the start that they don't take up much time. Lots of 
> people would like to get involved in open source but only have an hour or so 
> each week.
> 
> Similarly, I've found that you can get people interested by talking about the 
> experience they'll gain. Think of computer science students who will be in 
> the job market soon and want to have some impressive stuff on their CVs. 
> Anyone can set up their own SourceForge or GitHub project -- but if you've 
> had your work included in a major FOSS project like LibreOffice, Firefox or 
> the Linux kernel, potential employees will take more note!
> 
> Once the blog post is up, I'll promote it via our usual channels.


May I politely ask that we try to coordinate, these kind of blog posts aimed at 
developers, I have already done a few (which are also published through 
planet.) and I do have a plan on how to get students involved.

If we blog towards students in competing angles, it might not have the effect 
we wished for. I welcome any initative (including this one), simply ask that we 
send the same signal.

rgds
jan I.

> 
> Mike
> 
> 
>> On 15.06.2016 11:10, Heiko Tietze wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I prepared a blog post with the intention to find more people doing
>> easyhacks. The idea is that we have tickets that require not much
>> coding skill. But even this might feel as a hurdle. When we find
>> people for the graphical only task it could be a first step.
>> Please read the (really short) draft at
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lgAD-aE54IswyAwg6yJ6MeTstCjznPvQR1nV_R95OXs/edit?usp=sharing
>> I'm open to all comments and refinements. For convenience I draft blog
>> post in Google Docs. The final posting will be on
>> http://design.blog.documentfoundation.org.
>> Cheers,
>> Heiko

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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2016-04-29

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Heiko, Samuel, Tomaz, Kendy

* GSoC

+ https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/dashboard/

+ Approved UI projects:
+ Improve user experience with Table Styles (mentors: dev - 
kendy/miklos, ui - jay/heiko)
+ Review of the Area Fill dialog (mentors: dev Bubli , ui - jay/heiko)
+ Redesigning the Template Manager (mentors: dev - samuel, ui - jay)
+ Review of Sidebar and it's functionality (mentors: dev Bubli , ui - 
jay)
+ Infrastructure for defining toolbars via .ui (Glade) files (mentors: 
dev - kendy/samuel, ui - heiko)

+ Started a weekly update meeting with Rishabh (Area Fill project) and 
Bubli like in SCRUM 
+ what has been done, what is planned, where are the bottlenecks
+ sounds great (Kendy)
+ encourage your students to hack already, bonding by producing code is 
best :-) (Kendy)

* Draw (Heiko)

+ Started to create metabugs for better organization (tdf#99563, tdf#99525)

* Sidebar survey (Heiko)

+ No complaints about the proposed guidelines
+ Added to the HIG at the wiki

* Help content (Jay / Kendy)

+ http://vm173.documentfoundation.org/

+ Olivier updated the xslt so that it produces a list of keywords now 
(Kendy)
+ see eg. http://vm173.documentfoundation.org/text/swriter/main.xhp
+ not sorted yet, but a good direction of developments I think :-) 
(Kendy)

* needsUXEval (Heiko / Kendy)

+ now it is not necessary to use the 'ux-advise' component any more
+ instead, add the 'needsUXEval' keyword, and the ux-advice@ ML will be CC'd

+ should we kill the 'ux-advise' component? (Samuel)
+ probably not yet, as it shows which bugs are untriaged (Kendy)
+ but when we move them to the neesUXEval keyword, then yes (Kendy)

* Tabs etc

+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99528
+ http://i.imgur.com/aLP247v.png
+ Three options for navigation right now: tabs (e.g. paragraph style), tree 
(options), and icon view (hyperlink)
+ We should have one way of presentation (Heiko)

* Calc Default Header (Samuel)

+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99296
+ Clearing the text (Table1/Page1) doesn't solve the issue since empty 
space remains
+ Disabling the header/footer by default is better (Tomaz, Samuel, Heiko)
+ Worries that people can find the setting (Samuel)
+ Excel has no header/footer, let's do the same (Kendy)
+ Will research a bit more, so that there is one place to set this (Samuel)

* "Custom Animation" probably should be called just "Animation" (Samuel)

+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95387
+ agreed to change (all)

* Drop the term "Manager" (Samuel)

+ Template Manager -> Templates
+ Extension Manager -> Extensions
+ Are there more?
+ agree (all)
+ Problem with "Extensions" and "Add-Ons" in the same menu then, postpone 
this

* Add-Ons vs Extensions (Samuel)

+ Term "Add-Ons" used once: http://i.imgur.com/qpK5AsK.png
+ Rename Add-ons to Extensions and move Extensions Manager into this 
submenu + rename to Organize Extensions (like for Makro) (Heiko)
+ Drawback is a submenu with only one item by default (Samuel)

* Shortcut for Extension Manager (Jay)

+ Is Ctrl + Alt + E a good shortcut?
  https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/23376/
+ no objections on the ML, so pushed that (Samuel)


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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2016-04-22

[Jan Holesovsky]

Unfortunately the meeting was canceled today.


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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2016-04-15

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Heiko, Jay, Kendy, Samuel, Stuart

* GSoC

+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/GSoC/Ideas
+ https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/dashboard/

* Restart dialog

+ clarification of https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99293
+ indeed, I meant that if we improve one message, we should improve all 
of them :-) (Kendy)

* Draw (Heiko)

+ checked the bugzilla for Draw reports
+ maybe worth checking the ux-advise bugs related to Draw? (Kendy)
+ unfortunately the category is either ux-advise or Draw - they are 
mutually exclusive (Heiko)

* UX-advise handling (Kendy/Heiko)

+ seems sub-optimal that it is a Component
+ impossible to filter like "show me the Draw bugs that need input from 
UX"
+ problem for triaging
+ maybe a keyword instead, similar to needsDevEval
+ needsUXEval (Samuel)
+ sounds good to me - consistent with the (Kendy)
+ concern wrt. mailing the ux-advise mailing list (Samuel)
+ now the ux-advise ML is automatically subscribed (Jay)
+ is that possible with a keyword change? (Kendy)
+ will ask the QA people (Jay)

+ KDE has a special switch; a bit concerned about keywords (Heiko)
+ keyword seems fine for now (Jay)

* Sidebar survey

+ first results (Heiko)
+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/SidebarUsage
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XknvPqz58hYc_NeY2-Ky-L92MkLdYqs7SJCCxC3DX6w/edit?usp=sharing

+ finished
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XknvPqz58hYc_NeY2-Ky-L92MkLdYqs7SJCCxC3DX6w/edit#heading=h.rwnqe5haxk5v

+ went through the remaining parts (Heiko / Jay)
+ blogpost mostly finished, some wording improvements ongoing
+ make sure that even if we change HIG, and see further feedback from 
the users, we
  are able to update the HIGs again (Kendy)

* Help content (Jay)

+ VM created and awaiting credentials (Jay)




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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2016-04-08

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Heiko, Jay, Kendy

* GSoC

+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/GSoC/Ideas

+ https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/dashboard/
+ if you are a mentor, please touch the [I want to mentor this] button for 
projects you like
+ even UX people can mentor / co-mentor, big part of the work is 
non-technical
+ asking about the status, checking the results from the high-level 
point of view etc.
+ and a developer can help with the code pointers / review of the code
+ worked well the last year [co-mentoring Jay + Bubli] (Jay)

* Draw-related survey (Heiko)

+ blog post published - 
https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2016/04/01/the-many-faced-god-part-1-how-libreoffice-draw-is-being-utilized/
+ a comment suggested a public place where ideas are collected, and voted 
for
+ ~impossible in a good way (Heiko)
+ easy to say "want Impress like Blender" - easy to say, but impossible 
amount of work (Heiko)
+ but some good ideas there
+ eg. about connectors, will create a proposal (Heiko)
+ GSoC ideas for the next year would be the best place (Kendy)
+ will go through the bugzilla tickets & sort this better (Heiko)

* Sidebar survey

+ first results (Heiko)
+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/SidebarUsage
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XknvPqz58hYc_NeY2-Ky-L92MkLdYqs7SJCCxC3DX6w/edit?usp=sharing

+ finished
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XknvPqz58hYc_NeY2-Ky-L92MkLdYqs7SJCCxC3DX6w/edit#heading=h.rwnqe5haxk5v

+ many people reviewed, some open questions
+ as it affects the HIGs, important (Heiko)
+ OTOH - if we change the HIGs, it is not for the eternity, if 
something needs to be changed
  after it is implemented & tested in real world, we can adapt etc. 
(Kendy)
+ some disagreement in the HIG update, will talk it through between 
Heiko / Jay / Stuart
+ mostly around switching context

+ conclusion: Remove the controversial parts from the HIG update part, and 
run a design session for that

* Single Toolbar Mode & Notebookbar (Jay/Samuel)

+ notebookbar.ui in Writer was updated
+ some cleanups in SidebarToolBox, to move useful stuff to ToolBox directly 
(Kendy)

+ configurability is important (Heiko)
+ some possibilities there, but hard to do everything in the GSoC 
timeframe (Kendy)

* Shortcut for Extension Manager (Jay)

+ Is Ctrl + Alt + E a good shortcut?
  https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/23376/

* Help content (Jay)

+ still no VM from the infra team, would help here (Jay)

* Blog (Heiko)

+ spam now removed automatically, thanks! (Kendy)
+ works better for Heiko too - thanks Italo! :-) (Heiko)





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[libreoffice-design] Inserting shapes from the sidebar

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi Jay, all,

We used to have a sidebar panel for inserting shapes, but it was removed
with this bug:

https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=73070

The patch only disabled it though - so it is not instantiated anywhere,
yet the code stayed in the repository.

So I wonder now - do we want to introduce it somewhere else, or kill it
for good? :-)

I'd be happy to kill it, and if needed later, introduce it by some
easier means, currently it uses some really strange / ugly constructs
there - but want to double-check before I do.

All the best,
Kendy


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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2016-04-01

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Akshay, Heiko, Jay, Kendy, Susobhan

* GSoC

+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/GSoC/Ideas

+ https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/dashboard/
+ if you are a mentor, please touch the [I want to mentor this] button for 
projects you like
+ even UX people can mentor / co-mentor, big part of the work is 
non-technical (Kendy)
+ asking about the status, checking the results from the high-level 
point of view etc.
+ and a developer can help with the code pointers / review of the code
+ worked well the last year [co-mentoring Jay + Bubli] (Jay)

+ UI Proposals
+ Application Themes
+ Improve The Special Characters Dialogue in LibreOffice
+ Improve user experience with Table Styles (mentors: dev - 
kendy/miklos(?), ui - )
+ Improving the TOC-dialog
+ Review of the Area Fill dialog (mentors: dev Bubli , ui - )
+ Redesigning the Template Manager (mentors: dev - , ui - )
+ Review of Sidebar and it's functionality (mentors: dev Bubli , ui - )
+ Infrastructure for defining toolbars via .ui (Glade) files (mentors: 
dev - kendy/samuel)

* Bring back the legacy Save toolbar button as customization option? (Heiko)

+ Maxim sorted this out - thank you! :-)

* Draw-related survey (Heiko)

+ results finished, ready for publishing
+ many good ideas there

* Sidebar survey

+ first results (Heiko)
+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/SidebarUsage

+ finished
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XknvPqz58hYc_NeY2-Ky-L92MkLdYqs7SJCCxC3DX6w/edit#heading=h.rwnqe5haxk5v
+ hope to publish it the next week

+ please read it & review, will affect our HIG

* Single Toolbar Mode & Notebookbar (Jay/Kendy)

+ the toolbar for single toolbar mode is in (Jay)

+ notebookbar code changed too (Kendy)
+ now it is possible to have different top-level .ui files in different 
apps, for example
  notebookbar.ui for Writer (Kendy)
+ would be good to do the single toolbar mode using a .ui file too at 
some stage, so that we can
  easily hide the 'classic' toolbars in the simplebar or notebookbar 
cases using the same code (Kendy)

* Help content (Jay)

+ reviewed the xslt approach for now, like that it uses the same filter 
(with small tweaks)
  as the internal help (Kendy)
+ problem there though with importing from other .xhp files (Jay)
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94017
  e.g. https://help.libreoffice.org/Writer/Table - '7.1 Table 
AutoFormat' should be '8. Table AutoFormat'
+ will look at the PHP approach too (Kendy)

* Blog (Heiko)

+ still badly spammed :-(
+ would be good to have a better anti-spam filter or so on the blog (if 
possible)

+ can you provide some data about how many people participated in the 
surveys so far? (Kendy)
+ not that easily, but will try (Heiko)


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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2016-03-11

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Jakub, Jay, Kendy, Tomaz

* UI changes integrated the last week:

+ Improvements in menus and shortcuts (Jay)
+ Updates in Sifr (Jay)
+ Popup menu improvements (Maxim)
+ Icon view for Remote files dialog (Szymon)
+ More animation information in list control (Akshay)

* Google and OneDrive CMIS functionality (Jay)

+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98360
+ we are promoting this functionality with the new 'Remote Files' dialog
  but as it doesnt function right, many duplicate bugs are just being 
filed and closed.
+ google drive - 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98416
+ onedrive - https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62437
+ send in patch to hide OneDrive - 
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/22881/

+ Will discuss this in the ESC (Kendy)

* Single Toolbar Mode (Jay/Samuel)

+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92218
+ https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/22818

+ The idea was to have choice, not the default - right? (Kendy)
+ Yes, possibility to have only one row for the users that prefer such 
layout (Jay)
+ Created the xml file, hope to have a developer to switch easily (Jay)

* Mac version with single color (Jay)

* All icon themes look clearer on a plain white/light background similar to 
LibreOffice Vanilla
  
https://www.collaboraoffice.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/libreoffice-vanilla-1-1024x640.png
  http://i.imgur.com/57IpwOI.png
  
http://standardsandfreedom.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Osx-native-toolbar.jpg-1024x640.png
 

+ The reason for the white is technical - cannot use the API in the 
sandboxed app (Kendy)
+ Actually in the newer OS X, the look changed, but LibreOffice still uses 
the old look (Jay)

+ We try to look as a native application (Kendy)
+ But we don’t have to (Jay)
+ The easiest would be to do a uniform color (Jay)
+ Would be good to add screenshots of some contemporary OS X apps, to mimic 
the look better (Kendy)
+ Will ask Steve (Jay)
+ iWork - 
http://notebooks.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/pages-tool-tips.jpg
 / http://tidbits.com/resources/2014-10/iwork-mac-toolbars.png / 
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/U3p_cTb0d80/maxresdefault.jpg 
+ WPD Reader - 
http://a5.mzstatic.com/us/r30/Purple2/v4/a2/a0/b5/a2a0b5fa-10b8-479e-54b3-498543a7df88/screen800x500.jpeg
 

* Help/Documentation (Jay)

+ Writer's Insert menu completed
+ Awesome! (Kendy)

* Scripts to convert .xhp help to html (Jay)

+ Help test servers needed - 
https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/issues/1584 
https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/issues/1856
* PHP script created to render the help repo similar to Olivier's 
http://hc3.edx.srv.br/
* Want to integrate Liongold's PHP script of my proposal for online xhp 
testing, else i'll have to recreate it
+ Helper script to test help files in help viewer - 
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/22962 (needs to be pushed)
+ logerrit needed for help repo - 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98488

+ proposed to tender the editing of xhp's if struggle to get it via the 
community (Kendy)

+ Would be great to have the code in a repository (Kendy)
+ help or dev-tools or website repo ideally (Kendy)
+ Will publish that (Jay)
+ Will poke the admins for the VM again (Kendy)

* Insert bookmark window (Jakub)

+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90855 
+ Screenshot - http://imgur.com/7uOROsr 
+ Unable to change bookmark name (Jakub)
+ Should that be changed to allow that? (Jakub)
+ Would be good (Jay)

+ Will push changes to gerrit soon (Jakub)




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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2016-03-18

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Akshay, Heiko, Jay, Kendy, Samuel, Xaviju

* UI changes integrated the last week:

+ Shortcuts improvements (Jay)
+ Allow multiple status bar functions at the same time (Dennis)
+ Various gtk3 fixes (Caolan)
+ Message missing from blank properties tab (Fabio)
+ Don't close the spellchecker when finished (Samuel)
+ Resize media and OLE objects proportionally by default (Samuel)
+ Track icon changes in the new menus (Maxim)
+ Galaxy anchor markers can be dragged again (Regina)
+ Mail merge workflow rework - new toolbar, removed some wizard steps 
(Kendy, Miklos)

* GSoC

+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/GSoC/Ideas

+ students appearing, good!
+ important to get a non-trivial Easy Hack done! (Kendy)
+ plus points for easy hacks in the areas the students are applying for 
(Kendy)

* Bring back the legacy Save toolbar button as customization option? (Heiko)

+ Due to accessibility Ctrl+S is not enough, and the split option confuses 
sometimes (https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98730)
+ Save as known from the main menu is not available in the customization
+ How to name this function to make the difference to the new Save clear 
(Ideas: "Just save", "Save directly", "Legacy Save", "Save Document")

+ the single button was changed from normal buttton to split button (Jay)
+ not possible to have the same command as split and non-split in the 
toolbar (Kendy)
+ but possible to have an additional button for 'normal' save (Kendy)

+ not sure I understand the core of the issue here though? (Kendy)
+ comment 10
+ sounds like a very special use case (Samuel)

+ the initial proposal was to have a new .uno: command for the split button 
(Jay)
+ but in the end, it was implemented as an extension of .uno:Save (Jay)

+ conclusion: Let's create a separate bug report for this & easy-hackize it
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98745
+ in there, .uno:Save would be non-split, and there will be an 
additional .uno:SaveExt that will have the split
+ maybe it's possible to use the command alias by Maxim (Samuel)
+ will try it (Jay)
+ with the alias, the alias will probably be the non-split 
variant - .uno:SaveLegacy or so (Jay/Kendy)
+ concern about the naming for the customization dialog (Heiko / Jay)

* Sidebar survey

+ first results (Heiko)
+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/SidebarUsage

+ users want freedom
+ and prefer static interfaces

+ needs more detailed analysis still (Heiko)
+ lots of free text too (Heiko)
+ can see the raw data? (Jay)
+ yes, attached there too (Heiko)

+ will finish the Draw survey first, then this (Heiko)
+ not urgent now, but good to have the data (Heiko)

* Removal of the properties dialog in template mangager (Jay)

+ Akshay submited a patch to remove it as has no benefit
  https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/23339/
  
+ apparently it shares Impress code some way (good) (Kendy)
+ but a bad way (bad) (Kendy)
+ you can modify it, have a toolbar there, etc.

+ there is a proposal for additional rework (Jay)
+ problems with the current one: toolbar that appears and disappears (Heiko)
+ would be better to not have the Properties, and instead the 
additional info
  in the sidebar or something (Heiko)
+ concern about tabs (Heiko)
+ they are gone in the proposal (Jay)

+ conclusion: Heiko and Jay will initiate a Design session to finalize the 
proposal
+ and then it's ready for implementation :-)
+ will subscribe to the Design ML (Akshay)

* Google and OneDrive CMIS functionality (Jay)

+ discussed this in the ESC, Cloph is on this (Kendy)

* Single Toolbar Mode (Jay/Samuel)

+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92218
+ https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/22818

+ the concern was a specialized button to hide some toolbars, and show 
other (Samuel)
+ the mechanism was more about providing more kind of views - switch 
from
  toolbar-centric view to sidebar-centric (Jay)
+ some configurable way to have a 'sidebar mode', and 'toolbar mode'; 
and potentially
  'single toolbar mode' - ideally with saving the previous state (Jay)
+ this goes nicely with
  
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/GSoC/Ideas#Infrastructure_for_defining_toolbars_via_.ui_.28Glade.29_files
 (Kendy)

+ how the customization would be handled? (Heiko)
+ for the GSoC, we can do switching widgets on and off, but moving 
would be hard (Kendy)
+ possibility to use glade though (Kendy)

+ concern about the switching between the modes - is it useful for the 
user? (Heiko)
+ like, when they cannot cust

[libreoffice-design] Re: CMIS props info page needs some graphic trimming

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi Giuseppe,

Giuseppe Castagno píše v Pá 04. 03. 2016 v 10:53 +0100:

> working a fix for CMIS properties info page (File > Properties... > 
> 'CMIS Properties' tab) reported in bug
> 
> I spotted the boolean property type display missing the labels, see:
> 
> image1: 
> 
> 
> I tried to fix using hexpand property with patch:
[...]
> 
> obtaining this:
> 
> image2: 
> 
> 
> Resizing becomes this:
> 
> image3: 
> 
> 
> Tab page code starts from here:
> 
> 
> I'd like to have the two radiobuttons nearer in a fixed position, 
> displaying the labels, any clean way to obtain?

[big quote so that the Design team has the context]

From the UX point of view, it looks like the tab page could be done a
bit better / nicer ;-)

I see that the page is being built dynamically, but is it necessary to
display the type of the property?

Then for the Yes / No radiobutton; I wonder if it could be a checkbox
instead?

> Is there some other part of LO code that has similar boolean type display?

No idea - but I hope the Design team can have some good ideas there;
they are CC'd now.

All the best,
Kendy


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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2016-02-26

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Italo, Stuart, Heiko, Jay, Kendy, Jan-Marek, Tomaz, Akshay

* UI changes integrated the last week:

+ Add a "filter" to Insert > Field > Other > Cross reference tab (Akshay)
+ ".uno:LineToolbox" command into writer (Gulsah)
+ UI for classification (Miklos)
+ Update of .ui files in Option (Adolfo)
+ More menus converted to xml (Maxim)
+ Slide preview fixing (Rishabh)
+ Fix paper cuts in animations sidebar (Bubli)
+ Tweaks in tango and galaxy icons (Jay)
+ Native Gtk3 popup menus (Caolán)
+ Vertical alignment buttons for shapes in the sidebar (Maxim)
+ Move accessibility relations to .ui files (melikeyurtoglu)

* GSoC - Special Character dialog (Jay/Heiko)

+ should we design implement our own or use OS specific charmap dialog
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37229
  https://www.kde.org/applications/utilities/kcharselect/
  https://wiki.gnome.org/action/show/Apps/Gucharmap
+ char map app is not necessarily bundeled on Linux (Heiko)
+ Adolfo worked on the task; in our dialog some features are missing 
(Stuart)
+ Proposal for high-end dialog made last year at 
http://user-prompt.com/de/libreoffice-design-session-special-character/

+ from the development point of view, would rather have own dialog, than 
having to maintain code
  for ~5 platforms (Windows, OS X, LXQT, KDE (Qt4/5), Gnome2/3, etc.) 
(Kendy)
+ agreed, good to add more features to our dialog though (Stuart)
+ it is not a single dialog / API, but external program(s) on those 
platforms (Jan-Marek)

+ conclusion: let's stick to our dialog, and promote improvements in it for 
the GSoC

* GSoC

+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/GSoC/Ideas
+ needs to be filed in until the next Tue
+ Heiko will add the ideas there (/done)
/done Area Fill, Table Styles, AutText, Bibliography
+ Samuel added Notebookbar (Jay: good, Heiko: better define 
requirements first)
+ we should file in the tasks that are completed from the design point of 
view
+ Table styles, Customization dialog, Sidebar, ...
+ design session stuff : table of contents dialog, symbol dialog, fill 
dialog, print dialog
  
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6qJrVIa0SAlcFV0Q2lWMmdUcW8&usp=sharing
+ done
+ redesign template manager
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JRPNdeHQpgqiqJv8LW-RHOjtHN8EMX0qK98QBnr10Yg/edit?usp=sharing
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ri2jznhcQmCtk3cVygEhwN7pi8FkbIVV_OvRQce_n6Y/edit?usp=sharing

+ Jay: add a Styles usability improvements section + list the various 
things to implement to GSoC-next ideas
+ Ahmed, Jay: Brainstorm about some nice / more styles for Calc
  https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/boards/1/topics/493
  [longer term - maybe better to add to the GSoC Styles task?]
+ Jay: Impress also needs more default object styles (only 2 are 
available)

+ concern about the Notebookbar task (Heiko)
+ it is supposed to provide the ground work (Kendy)
+ yet it talks details that were not decided yet (?) (Heiko)
+ propose to move it to a different section, if it is for the ground 
work (Heiko)
+ good idea, will move it to porting / platform (Kendy)

+ potential student akki  joined the the hangout, Stuart explains the 
concept (Stuart)

* Cell borders interopability (Jay)

+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=79787 

+ would be good add new line styles, so that we can map between Calc and 
Excel 1:1 (Jay)
+ currently the 13 Excel types map to 7 LibreOffice styles (Jay)
  
https://bug-attachments.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=121956
+ suggested to add new odf/libreoffice styles, so that we can map 
perfectly (Jay)
+ the interoperability problem comes from us... (Jan-Marek)
+ the solution isn't the most optimal interoperability fix (Jay)
+ loses the information - maps to something that is not true (Jay)
    + at least this improves roundtrip (Jan-Marek)
+ suggest to create a follow-up bugreport (Kendy)
    + Jan-Marek will discuss with Jay (Jan-Marek)

* Draw-related survey (Heiko)

+ published and continued (will close on Friday, 19 February)
  
https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2016/02/07/what-do-you-expect-from-draw/
  http://user-weave.com/survey/b0edf831f89d4d23bb3d6b6ba3e574a9?12
+ Results  
  https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByWdNpQKVjM8bF91TGJCUXlFUk0

+ many participants, over 1200 valid answers

+ intermediate results at 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OEnqvhBkBMoULW_1Zeb37UpM3GbZaUynj2reM3Bdq-U/edit
+ textual analysis work in progress at 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GjpudJOJQUlWh7AHGpB5iAEk086SQ6nkAzkKOXPJL84/edi

Re: [libreoffice-design] Sidebar Survey

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi Heiko,

Heiko Tietze píše v Út 23. 02. 2016 v 10:43 +0100:

> we repeatedly talk about sidebars, whether it should be resizable with
> or without constraints, how to make it configurable, what features to
> add, and so on. Often we run into a fundamental discussion, which is
> an indicator for a missing concept. So the idea is to ask the users
> how they utilize the sidebar and how they want it to evolve.

Thank you for putting it together, and especially for:

> http://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/UX_Sidebar-Survey

It's great to be able to work on it using the TDF infrastructure :-)
I've added some minor tweaks, hope it helps.

All the best,
Kendy


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Re: [libreoffice-design] New default fonts

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi Francisco,

Francisco Adrián Sánchez píše v Ne 14. 02. 2016 v 14:19 -0300:

> Please, reconsider the use of Carlito as a *default* font. It has serious
> design issues which came with the "modification" of the original font,
> Lato, from which Carlito takes its symbols.
> 
> For example, Carlitos "eight" character is taller than the rest, making
> documents look weird:
> 
> http://6g6.eu/sih0-carloto-vs-lato-3.png
> 
> This is because the symbol it self is taller, and it isn't a hinting
> problem. This is a comparison of "O", "zero" and "eight" characters made
> with FontForge:
> 
> http://6g6.eu/sih0-carloto-vs-lato-2.png
> 
> On the other hand, I haven't found any flaw in Caladea's design. However,
> Caladea has a smaller symbol base than Cambria. Thus, we would be
> *discriminating* Greek and Cyrillic-writer people.
> 
> Thus, unless Carlito's design is revised and corrected, and Caladea's
> symbol base is completed, IMHO those typefaces shouldn't be the _default_
> typefaces in LibreOffice documents.

These are good points; luckily these sound like fixable problems :-)

Can you please collect the problems more precisely - which exact
characters (or character ranges) are missing, what characters have
design problems, etc.

Also if you can double-check the metrics compatibility with the C* fonts
(like if the pair kerning is really the same etc.)  [I believe they
really are, but in case there are some corner cases, or anything.]

Based on that, I'd ask the TDF Board to consider a tender to fix such
Carlito and Caladea issues; I hope it might fit the 2016 UX budget.

Thank you for your help!

All the best,
Kendy


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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2016-02-19

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Heiko, Jan-Marek, Kendy, Samuel, Tomaž

* GSoC is close again

+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/GSoC/Ideas
+ needs to be filed in until the next Tue
+ Heiko will add the ideas there (/done)
/done Area Fill, Table Styles, AutText, Bibliography
+ we should file in the tasks that are completed from the design point of 
view
+ Table styles, Customization dialog, Sidebar, ...
+ design session stuff : table of contents dialog, symbol dialog, fill 
dialog, print dialog
  
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6qJrVIa0SAlcFV0Q2lWMmdUcW8&usp=sharing
+ done
+ redesign template manager
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JRPNdeHQpgqiqJv8LW-RHOjtHN8EMX0qK98QBnr10Yg/edit?usp=sharing
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ri2jznhcQmCtk3cVygEhwN7pi8FkbIVV_OvRQce_n6Y/edit?usp=sharing

+ Jay: add a Styles usability improvements section + list the various 
things to implement to GSoC-next ideas
+ Ahmed, Jay: Brainstorm about some nice / more styles for Calc
  https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/boards/1/topics/493
  [longer term - maybe better to add to the GSoC Styles task?]
+ Jay: Impress also needs more default object styles (only 2 are 
available)

* Draw-related survey (Heiko)

+ published and continued (will close on Friday, 19 February)
  
https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2016/02/07/what-do-you-expect-from-draw/
  http://user-weave.com/survey/b0edf831f89d4d23bb3d6b6ba3e574a9?12
+ Results  
  https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByWdNpQKVjM8bF91TGJCUXlFUk0

+ many participants, over 1200 valid answers
+ first feelings: more people want improvements in the visio-like features, 
much less
  want publisher-like features
+ but many other interesting input too

+ Heiko will go deeper into the statistics
+ categorize the answers
+ extract the info...

* Sidebar max width (Jan-Marek)
 
+ The side bar currently has a maximum size limit
+ problem for wollmux exension (Jan-Marek)sw/sdi/swriter.sdi

+ in general, let's give freedom to the extension developers (Kendy)
+ we just need to make sure any random extension does not take over the 
entire LO :-) (Kendy)
AI: + put together few screenshots to explain the needs a bit better 
(Jan-Marek)
- http://snag.gy/e8550.jpg
- http://snag.gy/Q6pvY.jpg
- http://www.wollmux.net/wiki/WollMuxBar#Suchleiste

+ fan of the changes, just need to be careful - fixed size has some merit 
too (Stuart)
+ having a fixed/minimum value by default and allowing a sidebar extension 
dev to modify this value through api (Jay)
+ 
https://www.openoffice.org/api/docs/common/ref/com/sun/star/awt/XDockableWindow.html

+ Sidebar Bug Reports (Stuart)
The Sidebar Meta - 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65138

Sidebar "philosophy" where it needs to go - 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33223#c11

a key feature -- multiple & detatchable decks, and support in profile 
state
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=67770
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85905

+ basically now part of the UX team wants to give the flexibility, the 
other wants fixed size :-)
+ suggested a poll - to get more info what the users are expecting 
(Heiko)
+ actually cannot exactly make my mind either (Kendy)
+ have some casses that are annoying, but other than that, I'd be 
for freedom for extensions (Kendy)
+ concerned about moving input to the sidebar (Heiko)
+ let's try to collect useful use cases, and pros and cons for them 
(Kendy, Heiko)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ts5GlnrOGWcn7_V9naqRF-Ag9EWzFpsF6GwxH_uzzRw/edit?usp=sharing

+ would it be actually a big problem when different sidebar panels have 
different width? (Kendy)
+ added that as a questionto the poll
+ constantly changing side when jumping from one tab to the next isnt 
good UX (Jay)

+ will share the poll on the ML, when the questions are agreed, publish 
about the next week (Heiko)

+ What about changing the sidebar tab programatically (add API)? (Jan-Marek)
+ no objection from me (Kendy)
+ if the extension does things the user do not like, they'll 
de-install ;-) (Kendy)

* Update Default font

+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97577

+ Would be useful to change the default font in all apps rather than just 
impress (Jay)
+ Droid Sans, Serif, Mono (used on Android, available in Google Docs, 
available in ubuntu 12.04 & debian 6-backports)
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droid_fonts
+ Noto Sans, Serif, Cousine (droid derivative to fully cover all 
scripts in uni

[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2016-02-12

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Heiko, Stuart, Samuel, Jay, Jan-Marek

* GSoC is close again

+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/GSoC/Ideas
+ needs to be filed in until the next Tue
+ Heiko will add the ideas there (/done)
/done Area Fill, Table Styles, AutText, Bibliography
+ we should file in the tasks that are completed from the design point of 
view
+ Table styles, Customization dialog, Sidebar, ...
+ design session stuff : table of contents dialog, symbol dialog, fill 
dialog
  
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6qJrVIa0SAlcFV0Q2lWMmdUcW8&usp=sharing
+ redesign template manager
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JRPNdeHQpgqiqJv8LW-RHOjtHN8EMX0qK98QBnr10Yg/edit?usp=sharing
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ri2jznhcQmCtk3cVygEhwN7pi8FkbIVV_OvRQce_n6Y/edit?usp=sharing

AI: Add TOC, Special characters dialog, Templates Manager (Heiko)
  /done Templates Manager, Special Characters, ToC
  
+ Jay: add a Styles usability improvements section + list the various 
things to implement to GSoC-next ideas
+ Ahmed, Jay: Brainstorm about some nice / more styles for Calc
  https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/boards/1/topics/493
  [longer term - maybe better to add to the GSoC Styles task?]
+ Jay: Impress also needs more default object styles (only 2 are 
available)

* Sidebar max width (Jan-Marek)
 
+ The side bar currently has a maximum size limit
+ problem for wollmux exension (Jan-Marek)

+ in general, let's give freedom to the extension developers (Kendy)
+ we just need to make sure any random extension does not take over the 
entire LO :-) (Kendy)
AI: + put together few screenshots to explain the needs a bit better 
(Jan-Marek)
- http://snag.gy/e8550.jpg
- http://snag.gy/Q6pvY.jpg
- http://www.wollmux.net/wiki/WollMuxBar#Suchleiste

+ fan of the changes, just need to be careful - fixed size has some merit 
too (Stuart)
+ having a fixed/minimum value by default and allowing a sidebar extension 
dev to modify this value through api (Jay)
+ 
https://www.openoffice.org/api/docs/common/ref/com/sun/star/awt/XDockableWindow.html

+ Sidebar Bug Reports (Stuart)
The Sidebar Meta - 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65138

Sidebar "philosophy" where it needs to go - 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33223#c11

a key feature -- multiple & detatchable decks, and support in profile 
state
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=67770
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85905

* Update Default font

+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97577

+ Would be useful to change the default font in all apps rather than just 
impress (Jay)
+ Droid Sans, Serif, Mono (used on Android, available in Google Docs, 
available in ubuntu 12.04 & debian 6-backports)
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droid_fonts
+ Noto Sans, Serif, Cousine (droid derivative to fully cover all 
scripts in unicode, available in ubuntu 14.04 & debian 7)
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noto_fonts
+ Caladea, Carlito (bundled with LibO, metric compatible with MS Office 
default fonts, available in ubuntu 14.04 & debian 7-backports)

* Draw-related survey (Heiko)

+ published and continued (will close on Friday, 19 February)
  
https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2016/02/07/what-do-you-expect-from-draw/
  http://user-weave.com/survey/b0edf831f89d4d23bb3d6b6ba3e574a9?12




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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2016-02-05

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: 

* Sidebar max width (Jan-Marek)
 
+ The side bar currently has a maximum size limit
+ We would need more size to implement the WollMux form editor as a 
LibreOffice sidebar
- On normal monitor, this means about 30-50%
+ Probably LO will get bug reports, if the sidebar is as large as the 
window and people can't edit?
- Currently the side bar just collapses, if the whole Window get's 
smaller then the bar
- You can already hide the whole edit window
- It already decollapses, if the window becomes larger then the sidebar 
width again
+ 1. Idea:
- increase the maximum limit
+ 2. Idea:
- set a minimal size for the edit window and let the sidebar freely use 
the rest
- already collapses the side bar, when the minimum is reached
- preferred solution for us (Jan-Marek)

+ so only the maximal size, but not changing the default, right? (Kendy)
+ yes, the max size is the concern, currently the default is the 
minimum where widgets fit (Jan-Marek)
+ 2-3 bug reports currently open (Jay)
+ involved minimal and maximal size (Jay)
+ extending over the current max size does not give much additional 
value (Jay)
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92317
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=83526
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91915
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90374
+ the user can already change the size of the side bar (Jan-Marek)
+ wanted to have fixed size for the sidebar (Jay)
+ the area is not utilized when too big (Jay)
+ sidebar not completely finished yet (Stuart)
+ the thing is - the sidebar wouldn't be bigger when the wolmux 
extension is not installed (Stuart)
+ when the user opens the document, gets an additional window (Jan-Marek)
+ formula edit entry in the extension (Jan-Marek)
+ like a kind of PDF editing, additional checking etc. (Jan-Marek)
+ but more stuff too - choosing documents etc. (Jan-Marek)
+ API in place for many things in the sidebar now (Stuart)

+ when we don't change the default, ie. it the sidebar gets bigger only 
when the extension
  is installed, that's fine for me (Kendy)
+ defined by the extension itself sounds fine to me too through api 
(Jay)
+ why don't you use dialog instead? (Heiko)
+ we actually discussed something similar previously - that the sidebar 
might be useful for
  functionality that we currenly have in non-modal dialogs (Kendy)
+ sidebar easy to abuse, be careful (Heiko)
+ the users want to see both the document and the functionality 
(Jan-Marek)
+ why that should be the an abuse, actually? (Jan-Marek)
+ the main functionality should not be in the sidebar (Heiko)
+ adds complexity to the sidebar, question of modality (Jan-Marek)
+ duplication is not a problem, no dialog planned (Jan-Marek)

+ in general, let's give freedom to the extension developers (Kendy)
+ we just need to make sure any random extension does not take over the 
entire LO :-) (Kendy)
AI: + put together few screenshots to explain the needs a bit better 
(Jan-Marek)

* Impress Default font (suggested by Németh László)

+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97577

+ Switch to "Source Sans Pro" with fallback to "Liberation Sans"
+ https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/22124/

+ what is the reasoning for the change? (Kendy)
   + described in the bug...
   + changing the default might be critical, if the default isn't saved to 
the document (Jan-Marek)
  + Old problem was change of line color default in Writer from black 
to blue
=> all lines changed from black to blue

+ do we bundle the Source Sans Pro? (Kendy)
   + we do

+ I don't agree with the change (Kendy)
   + if at all, it should be done in the default template, not in the 
VCL.xcu (Kendy)
   + and - as a default, we need something metrically compatible with 
'usual' fonts (Kendy)
   + whatever font, its Unicode codepoint coverage in the SEP (think 
Emoji's) becomes an issue (Stuart)

* Draw-related survey (Heiko)

+ might be interesting to have a survey about what the users actually use 
Draw for (Tomaž)
+ Heiko will have a look / think this through
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W6aIpZhQo7j33f8W3p_nXLAd6tamwjtUxZFx77jArcU/edit
+ Will prepare a draft about the request to participate on the blog, 
create the survey and share all
  on the mailing list to get more opinions (Heiko)

+ people want better flow-chart support (Heiko)
+ and vector drawing tool
+ and other...


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Am alternative print range selection algorithm

[Jan-Marek Glogowski]

Hi Cor,

Am 03.02.2016 um 12:21 schrieb Cor Nouws:
> Jan-Marek Glogowski wrote on 02-02-16 19:29:
> 
>> A question that came to my mind: Should we place the "print empty pages"
>> setting more prominently on the general page near the range selection
>> like the reverse order checkbox, as it directly affects the print range
>> selection?
> 
> Yes, would be a good improvement IMO.

Guess I should talk about it in the design meeting on Friday.

> FYI: there was an extensive discussion reg. printing/the dialog.
> Mainly focussed on the trouble to override document settings
> and print on a paper size specified by a printer.
> 
> few mails from that:
>  http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg07254.html
>  http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg07327.html
>  http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg07326.html

That's also one of our bugs, but I didn't follow that discussion closely.

Did I mention I want most stuff in LO 5.0, our next LO release ;-)

ATB

Jan-Marek

P.S. Printing is generally problematic on Linux. Don't know how many
bugs we fixed, also in KDE / Qt and Gtk+, and a colleague developed
https://bitbucket.org/haftmann/macchiato

P.S.S. And then there is Qt5, with statement like Qt5 having minimal
printing support and "Anyone interested in funding development should
contact...", https://wiki.qt.io/Qt-5-QtPrint -
We have two more years until our first K*5 roll-out, so (enough?) time
to fix stuff (or to switch DE?)

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Am alternative print range selection algorithm

[Jan-Marek Glogowski]

Just to make this more clear:
1. The print preview (Ctrl + Shift + o) is just a other view of the
document, and doesn't open a dialog
2. The print dialog (Ctrl + p), which contains a little preview too.

Am 02.02.2016 um 20:38 schrieb V Stuart Foote:
> @jmux, *
> 
> Jan-Marek Glogowski wrote
>> Now there is the nit-pick, that the page number isn't adjusted, if the
>> user changes the "print empty pages" setting. We also don't adapt the
>> page range when toggling the "print empty pages setting". I guess that
>> would be much more work.
> 
> As displayed on the Status bar while in Normal view, and in the Print
> Preview mode--right?

No. I was just talking about the print dialog, where you can select the
range of printed documents. As I read your bug, it was about the print
dialog.

> But we also have another "nit-pick" related issue with the Navigator,  and
> its linked "Jump to Specific Page" box in the Print Preview dialog.  When
> Navigating/jumping to one of the blank pages, it gets lost and ends up on
> the first page.

That's also not a new problem from the patch, but when I looked for the
crash I originally thought it was related.

And I actually can't use the scroll wheel correctly - just load the odt
from https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=122351

The scroll bar says it scrolls to page 83, but it actually stops at page
41. This also happens in LO 4.1.

>> A question that came to my mind: Should we place the "print empty pages"
>> setting more prominently on the general page near the range selection
>> like the reverse order checkbox, as it directly affects the print range
>> selection?
> 
> Where? (1) on the Print dialog--where the range selection, reverse order are
> located, and *exposed for selection to every print job*; or (2)  more
> generically as a setting in the Tools -> Options -> Print panel?   Could be
> either of those as opposed to the Tools -> Options -> Writer -> Print: Other
> section, where it resides now and is a Writer only configuration.
> 
> But, not the Tools -> Options General tab.

Yup (1). It's already in the print dialog on the "LibreOffice Writer"
page. I just want to move it to the general page in the "range and
copies" area. I'm not referring to any settings here.

Obviously we would have to hide it for non-writer documents, as the
general page is AFAIK also used in all other LO programs, which don't
have an "hidden empty page problem".

>> OTOH this is a Writer only setting. We can still show and hide it on the
>> general page, depending on the calling document / application. But
>> probably it's also not needed?
> 
> Yes. But again, you mean for the Print dialog and not one of the Tools ->
> Options panels?

Yup (1)

Jan-Marek

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Survey about Libreoffice Draw

[Jan-Marek Glogowski]

Hi,

just as an other data point I want to give you some information, why  we
(as City of Munich) added Calligra Flow to edit flowcharts / ODG based
flow diagrams.

We originally used Kivio in KDE3 and 1 1/2 years ago we were faced with
the problem, that users had a lot of Kivio files, which weren't readable
by any other program then Kivio, As Kivio was part of KOffice, it wasn't
available for KDE4 and long dead.

In the end we wrote a converter to convert kivio to odg. This works
great for us, but we saw two main problems with Draw:

1. Bug 83360, which effected the result of our converted output
2. A much larger standard symbol set in Flow for technical diagrams

From my personal POV, which is of a non-user of these tool, LO probably
just needs an additional interface preset for Flow charts, and a new
"new filetype", just like the special wizards for labels, business cards
etc., and save this custom setting in the odg file.

Just defaulting to an open gallery side bar and enabling the grid makes
Draw look much like known Flow charting programs like MS Visio or Kivio,
which people feel already familiar with.

I didn't check the licenses of dia and calligra flow clip art galleries.
That even may be a good collaboration point and is probably easily fixable.

HTH

Jan-Marek

P.S. I don't see the online searchable, extension based openclipart
gallery as an alternative to a well defined, integrated flowchart
gallery set.

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Am alternative print range selection algorithm

[Jan-Marek Glogowski]

Hi *,

so the patch has landed in master. I fixed a resulting crash and a
little inconvenience it caused (AKA bug 97505).

Now there is the nit-pick, that the page number isn't adjusted, if the
user changes the "print empty pages" setting. We also don't adapt the
page range when toggling the "print empty pages setting". I guess that
would be much more work.

A question that came to my mind: Should we place the "print empty pages"
setting more prominently on the general page near the range selection
like the reverse order checkbox, as it directly affects the print range
selection?

OTOH this is a Writer only setting. We can still show and hide it on the
general page, depending on the calling document / application. But
probably it's also not needed?

Comments?

Jan-Marek

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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2016-01-29

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Heiko, Stuart, Jay, Samuel, Kendy

* UI changes integrated since the last meeting:

+ Paste Special fix (Maxim)
+ Dropdown for conditional formatting (Maxim)
+ Better visibility of automatic page breaks (akki95)
+ Disable the line arrowheads when non-line object is selected (Rishabh)
+ Usage stats into the file in the user profile (Aybuke)
+ Menus to .xml in Starmath (Maxim)

* GSoC is close again

+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/GSoC/Ideas

+ we should file in the tasks that are completed from the design point of 
view
+ Table styles, Customization dialog, Sidebar, ...
+ design session stuff : table of contents dialog, symbol dialog, fill 
dialog
  
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6qJrVIa0SAlcFV0Q2lWMmdUcW8&usp=sharing
+ redesign template manager
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JRPNdeHQpgqiqJv8LW-RHOjtHN8EMX0qK98QBnr10Yg/edit?usp=sharing
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ri2jznhcQmCtk3cVygEhwN7pi8FkbIVV_OvRQce_n6Y/edit?usp=sharing

+ Jay: add a Styles usability improvements section + list the various 
things to implement to GSoC-next ideas
+ Ahmed, Jay: Brainstorm about some nice / more styles for Calc
  https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/boards/1/topics/493
  [longer term - maybe better to add to the GSoC Styles task?]
+ Jay: Impress also needs more default object styles (only 2 are 
available)

* Add Illustration and Table caption fields into Insert

+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97303

+ Goal is a consistent behavior of objects (Stuart, Heiko)
+ Frames around objects are not essential, but they do provide 
structure/content that should otherwise come from the object (Stuart)
+ Floating objects, like shapes and images, need a frame around (Jay)
+ Have a dev look into what can be fixed under the hood and see what is 
possible (Jay)

* Spam at blog

+ Commenting is possible at our blog only with manual verification
+ Spam leads to a massive amount of emails
+ Intermediate solution: Checking new comments not immediately (no email 
when someone post a comment)
+ Future solution: Asked Italo to add a spam preventing plugin (Bubli)
  
* An alternative print range selection algorithm (Jan-Marek)

+ http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg07516.html

+ Stuart found some issues and informed jmux ( 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89708#c4 )
+ Not stable enough, at least on Windows
+ Quick test with 5.2 from last week: blank pages are shown whether tools 
settings are on or off (Heiko)  
   
* Draw problems (Stuart)

+ might be interesting to have a survey about what the users actually use 
Draw for (Tomaž)
+ Heiko will have a look / think this through
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W6aIpZhQo7j33f8W3p_nXLAd6tamwjtUxZFx77jArcU/edit

+ Will prepare a draft about the request to participate on the blog, create 
the survey and share all on the mailing list to get more opinions (Heiko)

* LibreGraphics Meeting (LGM) soon

+ in London
+ would be good opportunity to meet other designers and the broader Libre 
graphics community (Inkscape, GIMP, DIA etc.)




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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2016-01-22

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Tomaz, Stuart, Jan-Marek, Heiko, Jay, Samuel

* UI changes integrated since the last meeting:

+ Disable increase/decrease indent in R/O documents (Oliver)
+ Make TabBarVisible configuration persistent (Philippe)
+ More useful function suggestion system in formula editing (Keigo)
+ Writer context menu converted to xml descriptions (Maxim)
+ Propagate the selected slides in the print dialog (David)
+ Show autofilter row count in status bar (Dennis)
+ Show OS X version in the About dialog (Douglas)

* An alternative print range selection algorithm (Jan-Marek)

+ http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg07516.html
+ jmux introduced the use case and the issues
+ patch is available in gerrit and usability needs to get tested
  https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/18420/
+ added Tomaz and Samuel to gerrit 
AI: + Jan-Marek will push to master and Stuart will test

* Blog post about menu changes

+ Draft at 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QBHc3Kq7iXwfodNTjj1-DPujpr2WTZKwRvtOgrWqZJ0/edit#
+ Publish: Yes (all)
   
* Save button behavior (Samuel)

+ implemented now
+ thanks so much Maxim!

+ is in RC2 now (Samuel)
+ new icon is available for Breeze, Tango, Sifr, Galaxy (thanks to 
Andreas & Adolfo!) (Samuel)
+ minor issue with the new toolbar item 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97317

+ Separate UNO command for Save Split button (Jay)
+ alternatively have just the menu item disabled (Samuel: difficult/not 
possible to do)
+ no need to show the document status in the menu; indication is clear 
from toolbar, statusbar, and the app title (Samuel, Stuart)
+ an active save button in the toolbar doesn't show status (Jay)


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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2016-01-15

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Stuart, Italo, Heiko

* UI changes integrated since the last meeting:

+ Update of Breeze and Galaxy transition icons (Andreas)
+ Update in the handling of OS X menus (Maxim)
+ SaveModified icon for Tango and Galaxy (Adolfo)
+ Sifr updates (Matthias)

* Impress - Modes Tab bar
+ http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/msg07525.html

+ Setting of modes tab bar is not persistent 
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=97119 is being 
fixed by bubli according IRC communication
+ META: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95983 for 
issues related to this refactoring

+ Workflow needs improvement (Italo)
+ Power users switch frequently between page and slide sorter (Italo)
+ Even Benjamin would be kind of an expert in Impress since the gap 
between novice and experts are small here (Italo)
+ Fixing the bug solves the issue since Eve would enable the modes tab 
bar once and forever (Cor)
+ Adding shortcuts like Cltr+Shft+M for norMal and Ctrl+Shft+T sorT 
(Cor)
+ Hiding by default to spare vertical space, easy access via split 
button in toolbar (Stuart)
+ Not enough user testing; Impress power users will not hide this tabs 
bar (Italo, Michel)
+ Show by default until we found a better solution (Samuel)
+ Find a better place for the toolbar split button for instance next to 
format pages (Italo, Sophie, Michel)
+ Last choice of the split button's selection has to be stored (Sophie)
+ Acceptance of changes is a matter of communication (Sophi)
  part of that being to increase use of our MozTrap guided testing cases
  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/MozTrap
  http://manual-test.libreoffice.org/results/runs/?

+ Master slides are too easy to access making it dangerous for beginners 
(could edit master instead of pages) (Italo)
+ Enterprise  environment blocks editing of master slides; remove 
master slides from split button widget (Italo)
+ Blocking is not so easy, e.g. "Set background image > To all pages" 
affects the master (Cor)
+ Does not introduces new great dangers for corporate use in the 
Netherlands but definitely an issue for Italy (Cor)
+ No good visual cue for master vs. normal (black/gray) (Italo)
+ Hide master slides behind a menu as how masters are handled by 
PowerPoint and Keynote  (Italo, Cor)

+ Opt-in for the modes tab bar (current master) or shown by default
+ off by default (Heiko)
+ on by default, or when it is off then have the toggle on/off button 
on the toolbar (Italo, Stuart)
+ transition time: on for now, off from the next release on (Stuart, 
Italo)
+ Show the toggle display-modes-tab button on toolbar solves everything 
(Italo)
+ Feature is used only once and should go into the main menu view 
settings (Heiko)
+ Agree with keeping it as it for now is and we explain the changes to 
people (Italo)

+ Where to place the toolbar split button?
+ next to other slide functions (Italo, Heiko)
+ enable view on/off and move both buttons to the right end of the 
standard toolbar (Stuart)

+ Store selected mode for the next session?
+ Sure (Heiko)
+ Change access to master slides?
+ Improve yes, but in future release (Heiko, Italo)
+ Move buttons to presentation toolbar, right hand of standard docked 
(Michel, Stuart)
+  
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Michelr/Impress51_group_buttons
   has some cross over with tdf#89668 -- SLIDE PANE: Move slide 
manipulation buttons to the bottom of the pane
+  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89668
   and with tdf#87672 -- Moving Impress view tabs to slide pane 
   https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87672

+ Conclusion:
+ Hide the tabs bar by default
+ Show toggle display tabs bar button in the toolbar
+ But then hide the toggle button from realease 5.2 on (aiding 
transition)
+ Move display modes split button and the toggle tabs bar button to the 
right edge of the standard toolbar
+ Store last user setting
+ Think about changing access to master slides for 5.x

* Marketing wants a new name for "notebook bar" interface (Italo)
+ Present the user interface for LibreOffice (Italo)
+ there are multiple interface form factors for users



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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2016-01-08

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Heiko, Kendy, Samuel
  
* UI changes integrated since the last meeting:
 
+ resource menus & readonly improvements (Maxim)
+ new saving behavior + indication (Maxim)
+ "show draw functions" button for Draw & Impress (Gulsah)

+ Comments on design blog (Heiko)
 
+ currently go to only one person (Heiko)
+ let's ask admins to setup a mail alias for the main account (Kendy)
 
+ Blog about menu changes (Heiko)
 
+ Reason: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91820
+ to explain what has been done, what are the concepts behind that (Heiko)
+ sounds great (Kendy)
+ ideal if Jay can do that, he did all the heavy lifting...
+ Heiko about to work on a draft, details needed from Jay
 
+ Find&Replace dialog in the sidebar (Heiko)
 
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96394
+ Sidebar as a host for functions? - F&R is not a property like paragraph 
settings, for instance
 
+ it is possible from the development point of view (Heiko)
+ but do we want that conceptually?
+ another example where this was attempted: change tracking (Heiko)
 
+ conceptually - it is changing the meaning of the sidebar a bit
+ sidebar is not meant as a replacement for dialogs (at least 
currently) (Heiko)
+ overall, moving some modeless dialogs to sidebar could be a 
not-that-bad thing (Kendy)
+ can imagine scenarios where it is useful to be able quickly 
switch between
  eg. change tracking and search/replace (which would take too much 
space with just dialogs)
 
+ let's think a bit more about this, and if we agree to this, make this a 
GSoC project
 
+ many search&replace bugs in the bugzilla, would be good to have them in 
mind too
  when considering the move to the sidebar (Heiko)
+ design session to mocup it with these in mind, prioritization, etc. 
needed (Heiko)
+ GSoC not that near, let's do it in some later Friday, after the 
normal meeting
 
+ Save button behavior (Samuel)
 
+ implemented now
+ thanks so much Maxim!
 
+ not in RC2 yet (Samuel)
+ the only missing bit is the icon (Samuel)
+ Heiko will sync with Andreas if he can have that before the RC2
  (Tuesday evening tagging)
+ Samuel will backport to libreoffice-5-1
+ then 3 reviews needed for the late feature, Kendy to ask ESC on 
the ML
 
+ Mail merge toolbar (Kendy)
 
+ implementation mostly finished (Kendy)
+ bugfixing before I can merge it to master
 
* Area Tab design session (Heiko/Jay)
 
+ Area Tab - https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94551
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gf7wqYszXnbrbzbyNlLKbJelMb20ssuimxfszcHP_wM/edit?usp=sharing
+ not published yet
 
+ ~10 comments
+ positive feedback
+ suggestion to remove the pattern editor and to rename some captions
+ one preference for the three-column layout
 
+ next: implement it :-)  probably again good for a GSoC task
 
* Draw problems (Stuart)
 
+ might be interesting to have a survey about what the users actually use 
Draw for (Tomaž)
+ Heiko will have a look / think this through
 
* Bug discussions
 
+ 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&component=ux-advise&list_id=527515&query_format=advanced&resolution=---
 
+ discussed, and acted on:
+ [nothing today sadly]
 


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[libreoffice-design] Am alternative print range selection algorithm

[Jan-Marek Glogowski]

Hi everybody,

I would like to get some UX input on tdf#89708 - or a different
implementation of the requested feature.

MAILMERGE: Add option to prevent inserting extra blank pages
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89708

The implementation is at: https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/18420/
tdf#89708 Adjust print page range for unprinted blank pages
by Eilidh McAdam for master [NEW]
(I just fixed the patch for all those renames)

The origin of the patch is a tender of the OSB Alliance (Open Source
Business Alliance e.V.) from 2014. The patch matches "use case 1, part 3":

> In the printer dialog the number of pages to be printed should correspond to 
> the number of generated pages from the mail merge function.

See:
http://osb-alliance.de/fileadmin/Working_Groups/OfficeInteroperability/Project2/SpecificationMajorFeatureImprovements_final.pdf

And just quoting my comment from the bug report:
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89708#c2

> There is no way to prevent the blank pages.
> 
> But we already don't display blank pages in the LO print dialog, as you can 
> see in the image (no pages previewed AKA 0/0, because "print empty pages" is 
> not selected).
> 
> So the print range selector needs to evaluate the range according to the 
> "print blank pages" setting. This is doable.
> 
> Now we get the "problem", that the preview range doesn't match with the 
> displayed page numbers in the document window - not sure which is worse.
> 
> All this can become - in any way - frustrating for the user.

The primary source of the problem is the mail merge origin. You have a
single letter document, do a full mail merge and now want to select some
of the generated documents of the dataset for print. You know you want
to print datasets 15 and 18.

So any suggestion how to solve this problem in a consistent way?
Maybe we want a configuration option, which probably also ignores empty
pages in "normal" page count?

Thanks for your input

Jan-Marek

P.S. Cors suggestion (teach the users) also helps, but the actual user
experience is still bad IMHO.
P.P.S the inconsistent different ways to run a mail merge also don't
help improving the experience.

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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2015-12-18

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Cor, Heiko, Jay, Kendy, Michel, Samuel, Stuart, Tomaž

* UI changes integrated the last week:

+ Enabled double click in input list field dialog (Oliver)
+ Converted MN_TAB_POPUPMENU to xml (Maxim)
+ Table context menu improvements (Maxim)
+ Clarified advanced options (unstable vs. limited) (Joel)
+ Convert some Calc context menus to xml (Maxim)
+ Filter options dialog controls expandable (Oliver)
+ Convert RID_POPUP_TAB to xml (Maxim)

+ Incremental UI changes only?

+ Joel suggest to not change the whole UI but have small steps
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91820#c25

+ mostly about the menu and toolbar reorg (Kendy)
+ Makes not much sense in this case since there is no half-conceptual 
menu organization (Heiko)

+ the hope is that the largest changes are now done (Kendy)
+ and we are back to incremental changes (Kendy)
+ should there be more changes, they'll be incremental again (Kendy)
+ pretty large change overall (Stuart)
+ there was support from the Design team (Stuart)
+ the change was needed, and long overdue (Stuart)
+ yes (Kendy)
+ now back to more easily manageable (Stuart)
+ there was a concept behind the changes (Heiko)
+ we are affecting people's workflows... (Heiko)
+ would be good to have 'something' that introduces the new features 
(Heiko)

+ when doing changes, we should prefer larger (but complete) change (Tomaž)
+ so that people don't have to re-learn all the time (Kendy)
+ agree (Cor)
+ better bundle the changes (per module) as much as reasonable 
doable

+ for NotebookBar, we'll need a switch between the old and new (Heiko)
+ that's easy - different concept, so a simple switch is possible 
(Kendy)

+ Save button behavior (Samuel)

+ Samuel talked to Maxim, Maxim agreed (Samuel)
+ only needs the new icon (Samuel)

+ what to do in 5.1 - revert? (Samuel)
+ let's wait a bit if Maxim can provide the proposed solution ~soon 
(Kendy)
+ and cherry-pick (Kendy)
+ late feature - will need 3 cross-company approvals (Kendy)
+ if not in time for RC2 (January 11), let's revert in 5.1 (Kendy)

+ Mail merge toolbar (Kendy)

+ implementation ongoing (Kendy)
+ have the basic toolbar now, working on moving the functionality to 
there from the wizard (Kendy)

* Area Tab design session (Heiko/Jay)

+ Area Tab - https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94551
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gf7wqYszXnbrbzbyNlLKbJelMb20ssuimxfszcHP_wM/edit?usp=sharing
+ not published yet

* Table styles blog post (Heiko)

+ published, some comments came in (Heiko)
+ nothing controversial, good (Heiko)

+ missing use case for the table style (Michel)
+ scenario / use case - for the persona (Heiko)
+ it is there, but not in a structured / strict way (Heiko)
+ scrum way: have there 'who' and 'why', in one sentence (Heiko)
+ so one can imagine that better
+ fine with that, if it is short (Kendy)
+ want to focus on the resulting work, not paperwork around :-) 
(Kendy)

* Mockups with Draw? (Michel/Heiko)

+ drafted a blog-post how it could work (Heiko)
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MrSd7nwm3PJfKg_DQ79Sbc4jlqWeX280U_yF81pvQiQ/edit?ts=5672a18b
+ and what's missing in Draw (Heiko)

+ should we blog it, or keep internal only so far? (Heiko)

+ reinventing existing stuff a bit (Stuart)
+ if somebody wants to do the work, go for that of course (Stuart)
+ but people are happy with the tools
+ agree with Stuart (Cor)
+ blog post focusing on strengths of Draw would be good (Cor)
+ but not as a tool to create workflows (Cor)

+ some features are missing, some need adjustments (Heiko)
+ and could be useful in Draw (Heiko)
+ but should not be a replacement for people's tools (Heiko)

+ wanted to propose only a small step (Michel)

+ people should be using tools that fit them, no forcing of this or that 
(Kendy)
+ we can do recommendations, but that's only it :-) (Kendy)

+ important to manage expectations (Cor)

+ shapes tab in the sidebar - that could get us closer (Jay)
+ down to stencils / objects
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Sv3Q-XdnHElYGXX2m8OLbRAy1zyodcU231Gn2SkVRV0/edit?usp=sharing

+ have a feeling of feature creep (Kendy)
+ let's stay what we are - a general purpose drawing program, not 
specialized on UI design (Kendy)

* Draw problems (Stuart)

+ not that good in vector drawing - freehand/Illustrator/Krita (Stuart)
+ problem with beziers (as in hand lettering/cursive lettering)
+ svg's should be handled correctly
+ please file bugs :-) (Kendy)

+ Draw does not have too exactl

[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2015-12-11

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Heiko, Kendy, Samuel, Stuart, Tomaž

* UI changes integrated the last week:

+ Kill destructive color conversion menu in Impress (Tomaž)
+ ToolbarAsMenu controller in reportdesign (Maxim)
+ Displaymode icons (Andreas)
+ Improved toolbars (Jay)
+ Breeze icons improvements (Andreas)
+ Fix tooltips for frame alignment buttons (Samuel)

+ Save button behavior (Samuel)

+ Save contains "Save as" and "Save remote" in a dropdown
+ Dropdown was disabled when "Save" was disabled
-> Made the button dropdown only when save disabled 
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/20079/
+ However, this is quite irritating (button has two different modes, user 
doesn't know why he can't click save and later he can)
+ Also users missing indication whether document is saved
+ possible solutions:
+ make only the dropdown active
+ move the functionality to Save As
+ what do you want from that button? (Heiko)
+ is there a good reason to disable Save in the first place? (Heiko)
+ we already have a user setting to enable Save all the time (Kendy)
+ moving to Save As is a problem: wanted to hide it in the default toolbar
+ Save status is in the status bar too (Kendy)
+ not many people know about that though (Heiko)
+ the information could be in the tooltip; even with additional info 
(Document is saved / Document is modified / ...) (Kendy) +1 (Stuart)
+ eg. MSO has that enabled all the time (Samuel)
+ additional / new icon indicator in the toolbar for that - disabled by 
default (Heiko)
+ icon that looks disabled, but still clickable (Samuel)
+ that would be confusing (Heiko)
+ possiblity to switch the icon to one with a star when unsaved 
changes? (Kendy)
+ decoration / small star
+ like it (Heiko)

+ any technical limitations when allowing saving all the time? (Heiko)
+ not that I am aware of (Kendy)
+ conclusion:
+ implement switching of the Save icon to a "Document has changes" state
+ decorator, like an added star (Andreas promised to take a look, 
at least for Breeze)
+ enable Save always
+ remove the configuration setting to disable the Save button (because 
it would be confusing when the user switches to "disabling")
+ hide the Save As from the toolbar
+ Samuel will talk to Maxim, let's still try to get this in as a late 
feature

+ Navigator in Impress & Draw (Samuel)

+ What to do with "Show Navigator when Slideshow running"?
+ there is a possibility to have the navigator visible during presenting 
(Samuel)
+ but that's the point of the presenter console (Samuel)
+ would like to remove this feature (Samuel)
+ does not even work in my 5.0 :-) (Kendy)
+ looks unused / nobody misses this feature apparently (Samuel / all)
+ keep in mind that people wanted the use case the separate window for 
navigator in Writer (Stuart)
+ conclusion:
+ let's remove the "Navigator visible" from Slide Show -> Slide Show 
Settings...
+ if there is a missing functionality, let's find out the exact use 
case, and add to the presenter console
+ EasyHack created for this: 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96414

+ Mail merge toolbar (Kendy)

+ current problem: in the Mail Merge Wizard, the document state switches 
between the "Source" and "Target" view
+ confuses users a lot
+ proposed to drop the last 3 screens from the mail merge wizard
+ instead put this functionality to a toolbar, that has
+ Mail Merge Wizard (for changes in the address settings etc)
+ back and forth for navigation
+ skip recipient
+ Edit Individual Documents...
+ Print (range)
+ e-mail (range)
+ conclusion: sounds good
+ will share the prototype when I get there (Kendy)

* Suggestions from Roland (Samuel)

+ 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libre-office-vs-numbers-td4167428.html

+ Roland now bootstrapped, let's see (Samuel)
+ we can close this topic for now

* Table styles blog post (Heiko)

+ shared a draft
+ needs a bit of discussion too unfortunately (Heiko)
+ discussed it in the call (Kendy/Heiko)
+ Heiko will finish the draft & publish

* Start Center GUI suggestions for change (Stuart)

+ there were some new proposals about the start center (Stuart)
+ thanks so much for thinking in the new ways
+ sharing only a screenshot is not enough though
+ when considering a big change, more communication is needed - 
encourage to
  join the #libreoffice-design, and discuss there

+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=96383
+ Change Start Screen - kompilainenn's
+ very concise, tabbed GUI -- maybe an alternate to current thumbnail 
based (Stuart)
+ would f

[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2015-12-04

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Heiko, Kendy, Michel, Samuel, Stuart, Tomaž
 
* UI changes integrated the last week:

+ Controller to show toolbar content as menu (Maxim)
+ Edit points toolbar (Jay)
+ Save Remote only when available (Maxim)
+ Transition icons for Impress (Andreas)

* Suggestions from Roland (Samuel)

+ 
http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libre-office-vs-numbers-td4167428.html

+ mostly general ideas (Samuel)
+ might be good to point Roland to the .ui files, so that he can do 
improvements etc. (Kendy)
+ will mail him & point to the calc sidebar .ui files, so that he can 
play with that (Samuel)

* Area Tab design session (Heiko/Jay)

+ Area Tab - https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94551
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gf7wqYszXnbrbzbyNlLKbJelMb20ssuimxfszcHP_wM/edit?usp=sharing
+ not published yet

+ draft finished, but Jay not that happy with the content (Heiko)
+ what to do to unblock? :-)
+ we should share it at least in the current state, to get feedback, 
and be able to iterate (Heiko)
+ unfortunately cannot see Jay recently (Kendy)

+ let's wait with the Area Tab blog post for now, Jay had some concerns 
(Kendy)
+ let's publish the Table Style blog post now instead (Kendy)

* Evaluation of what the users need (Michel)

+ what use cases are we targeting (Michel)
+ we have personas in the HIG (Kendy)
+ would be good to prototype + test (Michel)
+ prefer doing the LibreOffice code directly - so that it is exactly 
what can be done (Kendy)
+ but if you know of a tool that can do it more easily, please do tell 
us (Kendy)

+ in the case of the Area Tab, it is only about re-arranging the existing 
dialog (Heiko)
+ not necessary to have user stories there, but useful for new designs 
(Heiko)
+ interesting to have user stories even when re-designing (Michel)

* Bug discussions

+ 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&component=ux-advise&list_id=527515&query_format=advanced&resolution=---
 
+ discussed, and acted on:
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=84953
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85383
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=81519

* NotebookBar (ToolSpace?) (Samuel)

+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Pt1Psa4YDVwFOdYlLl6TXaK5LIK2uf1RKJk1UOTLsWg

+ current focus: loading the toolbars from glade (.ui) instead of .xcu files

+ keep in mind the HIG (Heiko)
+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/ToolBar
+ mentions some future enhancements of toolbars that might be helpful 
here (Heiko)
+ eg. grouping
+ possible with Notebookbar
+ eg. 
http://docs.sencha.com/extjs/4.0.7/#!/example/toolbar/toolbars.html ?

+ Will have  a friday session on NotebookBar topic on Fr 04th of Dec
+ Please have a look at the following links until then: 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/NotebookBar#Resources

+ the patch was reverted in master, will re-introduce that (Kendy)
+ considering a rename to 'ToolSpace' when at that; let's see (Kendy)
+ current plan: do more technical ground work there, so that the rest 
is up to
  concrete design of .ui files via glade (Kendy)
+ then many paths are possible, eg:
+ 
https://smehrbrodt.wordpress.com/2015/11/24/improving-the-toolbars-in-libreoffice/
+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/NotebookBar
+ but we want this to be an "implementation detail" - whatever is 
in .ui files (Kendy)

* Icon Updates / Issues (Jay)

+ Andreas provided the icons for transitions
+ many thanks! :-) (Kendy)

+ Paulo proposed new mimetype icons (Heiko)
+ nice stuff (Stuart)
+ 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/7/7d/Pj-icons-2015-11-6-v2-default-dark.png
  
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/e/eb/Pj-icons-2015-11-6-v2-high-contrast-dark.png
+ looks good, positive feedback on the ML (Kendy)
+ could have a better contrast for the Draw icon (Heiko)
+ up to Andreas + Jay to merge if it fits their plan (Kendy)




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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2015-11-27

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Stuart, Heiko, Kendy

* UI changes integrated since Wednesday:

+ Add padding between style render and context button (Jay)

* Area Tab design session (Heiko/Jay)
 
+ Area Tab - https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94551
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gf7wqYszXnbrbzbyNlLKbJelMb20ssuimxfszcHP_wM/edit?usp=sharing
+ not published yet

+ draft now in the blog, please check it

* Bug discussions

+ 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&component=ux-advise&list_id=527515&query_format=advanced&resolution=---
 
+ discussed, and acted on:
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=67622
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80196
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=57433
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=59329
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69358
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=83700

* Help updating (Kendy)

+ some problems with help - blank screen etc. (Stuart)
+ will report a bug (Stuart)

* Icon Updates / Issues (Jay)

+ icons for slide transitions needed (Kendy)
+ Jay and Andreas working ot this (Kendy)

+ Paulo proposed new mimetype icons (Heiko)
+ nice stuff (Stuart)
+ 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/7/7d/Pj-icons-2015-11-6-v2-default-dark.png
  
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/e/eb/Pj-icons-2015-11-6-v2-high-contrast-dark.png
+ looks good, positive feedback on the ML (Kendy)
+ could have a better contrast for the Draw icon (Heiko)
+ up to Andreas + Jay to merge if it fits their plan (Kendy)




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Re: [libreoffice-design] wrong icon size in Impress

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi Andreas,

kainz.a píše v St 02. 12. 2015 v 13:00 +0100:

> I'm not very happy with the new drop down menu in Impress for the Edit Mode
> selection cause the icons are 68x54 px in size.

I don't think there is a particular reason for using 68x54.  I think in
the Edit Mode case, it was done for the consistency with the
pre-existing "slide layout" (and other) icons that we had in the toolbar
already previously; see the "Slide Layout" dropdown.  They are used also
in the sidebar.

68x54 sounds strange though, indeed :-)  I suppose if you change all
(ie. both edit mode, slide layout, and whatever else uses 68x54) to
actually using 64x64, that might be good - but we'll have to check how
does it look in the sidebar.

> my problem is:
> 
> 1. toolbar icons are 16px, 24px and in future 32px and for this drop down
> button you scale the large 68x54px icons to the toolbar size (you can't
> read the 68x54px icon at 16px scale size.
>
> 2. why LO don't use standard icon sizes like 8x8, 16x16, 22x22, 24x24,
> 32x32, 48x48, 64x64, 128x128

See above; I think no issue using 64x64 for sd/res/displaymode_*

> I would prefere to move the icons
> 
> from
>sd/res/displaymode_*
> to
>cmd/sc_displaymode_*
>cmd/lc_displaymode_*
>cmd/32/displaymode_*
> 
> in the toolbar use the 16px (sc_displaymode_*) or 24px (lc_displaymode_*)
> icon and in the drop down menu maybe the cmd/32/displaymode_* icons or the
> same than in the toolbar.

This is something slightly different.  In the Edit Mode implementation,
there is code that explicitly uses the sd/res/displaymode_* images, and
scales them down to fit the toolbar.

But! - there are also .uno commands that could map to the appropriate
icons:

.uno:NormalMultiPaneGUI -> cmd/(sc_|lc_)normalmultipanegui.png
.uno:NotesMode -> cmd/(sc_|lc_)notesmode.png
.uno:OutlineMode -> cmd/(sc_|lc_)outlinemode.png
.uno:DiaMode -> cmd/(sc_lc_)diamode.png
.uno:SlideMasterPage -> cmd/(sc_|lc_)slidemasterpage.png
.uno:NotesMasterPage -> cmd/(sc_|lc_)notesmasterpage.png
.uno:HandoutMode -> cmd/(sc_|lc_)handoutmode.png

Could you please create those icons in the appropriate sc_ | lc_ | 32/
sizes?

Then I think Philippe could easily change the code so that instead of
the custom code in DisplayModeController::setToolboxItemImage, we just
use the appropriate cmd icon?

Thank you,
Kendy


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Re: [libreoffice-design] New time for Design Call

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi,

Samuel Mehrbrodt píše v St 18. 11. 2015 v 19:05 +:

> we have set up a survey for a new time for our weekly Design Call:
> 
> http://doodle.com/poll/d4b628cgxanrvmka
> 
> Anyone interested in joining the call, please enter your preferred times 
> there until next Wednesday's Meeting (Nov 25th, 19:00 CET).

Thank you all who have participated in the doodle!  The new meeting time
based on that is every Friday, 14:00 CET.

I look forward to seeing you there :-)

All the best,
Kendy


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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2015-11-25 + meeting time change: Friday, 14:00 CET

[Jan Holesovsky]

Note: the next meeting is _this_ Friday, 14:00 CET

* Present: Heiko, Jay, Kendy

* UI changes integrated the last week:

+ toolbar improvements (Samuel)
+ Save As to the Save dropdown (Samuel)
+ add Open Remote File to the start center (Samuel)
+ Save button becomes drop-down only when Save disabled (Maxim)
+ store sidebar element states (Laurent)
+ .ui improvements (Adolfo)


* Update the meeting time (Kendy)

+ New meeting time: Fridays, 14:00 CET (13:00 UTC)
+ starting this week already!

* Area Tab design session (Heiko/Jay)
 
+ Area Tab - https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94551
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gf7wqYszXnbrbzbyNlLKbJelMb20ssuimxfszcHP_wM/edit?usp=sharing
+ not published yet

+ draft now in the blog, please check it
 
* Dedicated Design team blog (Heiko)
 
+ https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/

+ now syndicated to planet.documentfoundation.org too (Heiko)
+ Heiko walked us through the wp interface - hot to post new blog post etc.






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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2015-11-18

[Jan Holesovsky]

[the meeting on 11th was cancelled]

* Present: Cor, Heiko, Kendy, Samuel
 
* UI changes integrated the last two weeks:

+ form-related controls ta insert and tools menu (Jay)
+ hierarchical organization of slide transitions (Tor)
+ and new slide transitions (Tor, Tomaž)
+ title for image export options dialog (Jay)
+ fix accelerators in start center (Kendy)
+ loading .svg images from image resources (Tomaž)
+ "hide whitespace" improvements (Ashod)
+ new Outline button (Maxim)
+ missing an icon
+ context menu customization (Maxim)
+ new PopupLabel property for uno commands (Maxim)
+ new TooltipLabel property for uno commands (Samuel)
+ shortcut keys missing in undo and redo tooltips (Samuel)
+ tdf#34882 Adding hex and decimal code search (Steve Hart)
+ Impress: Rework the way the display modes are presented (Philippe)

* Update the meeting time (Kendy)

+ Please fill the Doodle until the next meeting (Wed 25th, November 2015):
 http://doodle.com/poll/d4b628cgxanrvmka 

* Table styles (Kendy)
 
+ would be good to have a Friday session about that (Kendy)
+ already collected stuff in a doc (Jay)
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FPkf9fn79dXJ5tHpc-meMYxaQpj3nV5sEN6u9HOo2GQ/edit?usp=sharing

+ pending publishing
+ some thing still can be discussed

* Area Tab design session (Heiko/Jay)
 
+ Area Tab - https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94551
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gf7wqYszXnbrbzbyNlLKbJelMb20ssuimxfszcHP_wM/edit?usp=sharing
+ not published yet
 
* Dedicated Design team blog (Heiko)
 
+ https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/
+ now set up, admins, thank you!

+ Heiko, Jay, Kendy have the credentials
+ Heiko can start writing a post
+ how to reference the author etc.? (Heiko)
+ not possible to have a named posting (Heiko)
+ best to poke the admins - awerner set this up for us (Kendy)
+ will ask for some plugins that will be useful (Heiko)
 
* Bug discussions
 
+ none this week

* NotebookBar (Samuel)

+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/NotebookBar
+ screenshot - 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/f/f5/Notebookbar-writer.png
+ NotebookBar allows to create toolbars with glade (Samuel/Kendy)
+ full control over widgets in the topmost area, defined via a .ui file
+ an optional thing for users (Samuel)
+ menus + toolbars the default
+ now in master, but hidden via an env. variable (Kendy)

+ keep in mind the HIG (Heiko)
+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/ToolBar
+ mentions some future enhancements of toolbars that might be helpful 
here (Heiko)
+ eg. grouping
+ possible with Notebookbar
+ eg. 
http://docs.sencha.com/extjs/4.0.7/#!/example/toolbar/toolbars.html ?

+ loading the toolbars from glade (.ui) instead of .xcu files
+ this will probably remove the possibility to make the toolbars 
floating (Kendy)
+ but that is good (Cor, Kendy)

+ can have more sets of toolbars with this (Cor)

+ Will have  a friday session on NotebookBar topic on Fr 27th
 + Please have a look at the following links until then: 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/NotebookBar#Resources

* Help updating (Kendy)

+ released a new release (Kendy)

+ online modification prototype (Jay)
+ Liongold on IRC working on that
+ will share that with Jay, and can iterate
+ need a VM from the infra to host the prototype
+ will create another ticket for this (Jay)
  https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/issues/1584
+ would be great to put the code to a repository (Kendy)
+ dev-tools (some subdir there) (Kendy)
+ or a new repo - eg. on github as a start? (Kendy)
+ dev-tools preferred though

+ help-related meta bugs:
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94016
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93580

* Icon Updates / Issues (Jay)

+ icons for slide transitions needed (Kendy)

+ 32pixel sifr icons
+ first 2 from Pappamatti
+ reminded him to push svg too (Jay)
+ to use the Tomaž's code

+ Extra-Large (32x32) Icons for large resolutions
+ Status - 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mPqD2gGsMkfVCI6ByUd2XYX1NJm26hcGjRVe6gcCSEU/edit?usp=sharing
+ Integrating it into the options dialog - 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95014
+ add a "extra large" entry

+ still something wrong with inheritance (Jay)
+ Samuel will look at one of them
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93866
+ easiest solution: eg. for tango, during build concat tango + 
g

[libreoffice-design] HelpAuthoring-3.1.4.oxt released

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi,

I've released a new version of the HelpAuthoring extension.  It is
available here:

  http://dev-www.libreoffice.org/helpauthoring/

Please upgrade to this version, it is recommended for real use - please
help us creating the help pages!  It needs LibreOffice 4.4 or later.

The following has been improved in the version 3.1.4:

+ tdf#94201: No 'localize' on the 'switch' element (Regina)
+ tdf#94201 Dont import blank visibility attribute of  tag 
(Regina)
+ tdf#93981 Attribute localize=(false|true) is deleted (Regina)
+ correct path help/ to helpcontent2 and clarify (Eike)
+ make sure to select the full title line in wizard (Jay)
+ tdf#95509 Retain image size on save (Jay)

If you find bugs, please check the bugzilla if it is already reported,
and if not, report it, and set it as blocking the tracker bug:

  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93580

Or of course try to fix it, it is not that hard :-)  How to hack it is
described here:

  
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/contrib/dev-tools/tree/helpauthoring/README

All the best,
Kendy


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[libreoffice-design] Cannot run the hangout today

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi,

Unfortunately I cannot be at the meeting today, sorry about that.  If
you collect on #libreoffice-design, of course will be happy if you run
it without me :-)

All the best,
Kendy


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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2015-11-04

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Heiko, Jan-Marek, Jay, Kendy, Mattias
 
* UI changes integrated the last week:

+ optimized breeze icons (Andreas)
+ jump to specific page in preview (Gulsah)
+ text background tab in char formatting dialog (Bubli)
+ re-use MenuBarManager for context menus too (Maxim)
+ text background color related fix (Maxim)

* Table styles (Kendy)
 
+ would be good to have a Friday session about that (Kendy)
+ already collected stuff in a doc (Jay)
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FPkf9fn79dXJ5tHpc-meMYxaQpj3nV5sEN6u9HOo2GQ/edit?usp=sharing
+ 9th October, 1:00pm CEST / 11:00am UTC (Kendy)
+ more discussion about the proposal (Jay/Heiko/Kendy)
+ afraid of too many elements there (Heiko)

+ pending publishing
+ some thing still can be discussed

* Area Tab design session (Heiko/Jay)
 
+ Area Tab - https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94551
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gf7wqYszXnbrbzbyNlLKbJelMb20ssuimxfszcHP_wM/edit?usp=sharing
+ not published yet
 
* Dedicated Design team blog (Heiko)
 
+ redmine ticket: https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/issues/1505
+ pending on infra
+ voting feature/plugin
 
* Bug discussions
 
+ none this week

* NotebookBar (Samuel)

+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/NotebookBar
+ screenshot - 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/f/f5/Notebookbar-writer.png
+ NotebookBar allows to create toolbars with glade (Samuel/Kendy)
+ full control over widgets in the topmost area, defined via a .ui file
+ an optional thing for users (Samuel)
+ menus + toolbars the default
+ now in master, but hidden via an env. variable (Kendy)

+ keep in mind the HIG (Heiko)
+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/ToolBar
+ mentions some future enhancements of toolbars that might be helpful 
here (Heiko)
+ eg. grouping
+ possible with Notebookbar
+ eg. 
http://docs.sencha.com/extjs/4.0.7/#!/example/toolbar/toolbars.html ?

   + tabs make toolbars context depending which is against the use case of 
toolbars (Heiko)
+ structuring the toolbar with labeled groups and perhaps different 
sized buttons make sense
+ the tabs from the current notebookbar should stay a menubar (Heiko)

* Help updating (Kendy)

+ new patches, would be great to have a new release (Jay)
+ will do, this time really :-) (Kendy)

+ online modification prototype (Jay)
+ Liongold on IRC working on that
+ will share that with Jay, and can iterate
+ need a VM from the infra to host the prototype
+ will create another ticket for this (Jay)
  https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/issues/1584
+ would be great to put the code to a repository (Kendy)
+ dev-tools (some subdir there) (Kendy)
+ or a new repo - eg. on github as a start? (Kendy)
+ dev-tools preferred though

+ images in helpauthoring (Jay)
+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/HelpContent#Make_Images_Appear
+ image sizes not saved with HelpAuthoring
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95509
+ warning to correctly implement image insertion
+ implement a image root
+ have a pending patch (Jay)

+ the menubar re-org (Jay)
+ help 1/3 adapted - File, Edit & View menus
+ pending in gerrit now

+ help-related meta bugs:
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94016
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93580

* Icon Updates / Issues (Jay)

+ 32pixel sifr icons
+ first 2 from Pappamatti
+ reminded him to push svg too (Jay)
+ to use the Tomaž's code

+ Tango icons from Jay for new commands in table toolbar

+ Extra-Large (32x32) Icons for large resolutions
+ Status - 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mPqD2gGsMkfVCI6ByUd2XYX1NJm26hcGjRVe6gcCSEU/edit?usp=sharing
+ Integrating it into the options dialog - 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95014
+ add a "extra large" entry

+ still something wrong with inheritance (Jay)
+ Samuel will look at one of them
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93866
+ easiest solution: eg. for tango, during build concat tango + 
galaxy links.txt, and
  put to images_tango.zip
+ one shared links.txt is probably not possible (Jay/Samuel)
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91565
  tango - 
https://bug-attachments.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=115945
  galaxy - 
https://bug-attachments.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=119516

+ Sifr & breeze for dark themes
+ https://bugs

[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2015-10-28

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Heiko, Jay, Kendy
 
* UI changes integrated the last week:

+ icons in the help files (Stephan)
+ improve the thumbnailing of web view in Writer (Kendy)
+ more 32px breeze icons (Andreas)
+ 'restart timer' icons (Andreas)
+ .ui improvements (Jay)
+ Writer table toolbar improvements (Jay)
+ 32px tango icons (Jay)
+ hide InstallableOptions in the print dialog (Michael Weghorn)
+ scrollwheel events in tabbar of sidebar (Bjoern)
+ 

* Table styles (Kendy)
 
+ would be good to have a Friday session about that (Kendy)
+ already collected stuff in a doc (Jay)
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FPkf9fn79dXJ5tHpc-meMYxaQpj3nV5sEN6u9HOo2GQ/edit?usp=sharing
+ 9th October, 1:00pm CEST / 11:00am UTC (Kendy)
+ more discussion about the proposal (Jay/Heiko/Kendy)
+ afraid of too many elements there (Heiko)

+ conclusion of further discussions:
+ the dialog will focus on modifying only one style at time
+ added more features (name of the style, summary)
+ resizing: should the properties dialog be resizable?
+ conclusion: non-resizable

+ sidebar
+ in properties, and also in styles & formatting

+ formatting dialog
+ needs the table style too

+ still open (depends on implementation details)
+ can we have styles inheritance?
+ additional dropdown in that case
+ how to switch to different properties?
+ tabs / listbox / buttons possible

* Area Tab design session (Heiko/Jay)
 
+ Area Tab - https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94551
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gf7wqYszXnbrbzbyNlLKbJelMb20ssuimxfszcHP_wM/edit?usp=sharing
+ not published yet
 
* Dedicated Design team blog (Heiko)
 
+ redmine ticket: https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/issues/1505
+ pending on infra
+ voting feature/plugin
 
* Bug discussions
 
+ none this week

* NotebookBar (Samuel)

+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/NotebookBar
+ screenshot - 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/f/f5/Notebookbar-writer.png
+ NotebookBar allows to create toolbars with glade (Samuel/Kendy)
+ full control over widgets in the topmost area, defined via a .ui file
+ an optional thing for users (Samuel)
+ menus + toolbars the default
+ now in master, but hidden via an env. variable (Kendy)

* Help updating (Kendy)
 
+ new patches, would be great to have a new release (Jay)
+ will do, this time really :-) (Kendy)
 
+ help-related meta bugs:
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94016
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93580
 
* Icon Updates / Issues (Jay)

+ Should svgs be stored in repo and pngs created at build time (Samuel)
+ Fast svg import hack working (Tomaz)
+ I hacked something similar in the past (Kendy)
+ icons rendered from svg's on LibreOffice startup
+ but had bad results :-(
+ LibreOffice not rendering in good enough quality...
+ but hopefully Tomaž has better experience / approach (Kendy)

+ Icons not appearing in help viewer's web view
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82149
+ but fixed now - thanks Stephan! :-)

+ Extra-Large (32x32) Icons for large resolutions
+ Status - 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mPqD2gGsMkfVCI6ByUd2XYX1NJm26hcGjRVe6gcCSEU/edit?usp=sharing
+ Integrating it into the options dialog - 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95014
+ add a "extra large" entry
+ is this for hi-dpi? (Kendy)
+ no, it is for large screens, but not related to hi-dpi (Jay)

+ still something wrong with inheritance (Jay)
+ Samuel will look at one of them
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93866
+ easiest solution: eg. for tango, during build concat tango + 
galaxy links.txt, and
  put to images_tango.zip
+ one shared links.txt is probably not possible (Jay/Samuel)
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91565
  tango - 
https://bug-attachments.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=115945
  galaxy - 
https://bug-attachments.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=119516

+ Sifr & breeze for dark themes
+ bug report created (Jay)
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94632
+ Tomaž pushed the algorithm to create them to master (Tomaž)
+ screenshot - 
https://bug-attachments.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=119614

+ Elementary icon theme added to git by Bjoern (Jay)
+ but not enabled by default
+ images_human.zip to be placed in /opt/libreofficedev5.1/share/config/
   
https://drive.google

[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2015-10-21

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Heiko, Jay, Kendy, Tomaz, Stuart

* UI changes integrated the last week:

+ Enable auto-numbering by default reverted for now (Samuel)
+ First/last button in the Calc tab bar (Tomaž)
+ NotebookBar proof-of-concept pushed (Kendy)
+ alt-x support to math (Justin)
+ more 32px Breeze icons (Andreas)
+ Appearance -> Application Colors (Adolfo)
+ initial "Home" NotebookBar tab proof-of-concept (Samuel)
+ make sidebar toolboxs item order RTL sensitive (Bubli)

* Table styles (Kendy)
 
+ would be good to have a Friday session about that (Kendy)
+ already collected stuff in a doc (Jay)
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FPkf9fn79dXJ5tHpc-meMYxaQpj3nV5sEN6u9HOo2GQ/edit?usp=sharing
+ 9th October, 1:00pm CEST / 11:00am UTC (Kendy)
+ more discussion about the proposal (Jay/Heiko/Kendy)
+ afraid of too many elements there (Heiko)

+ what's the game plan there? (Jay)
+ ODF export first, then ODF import, then OOXML support (Kendy)
+ but cannot promise exact timeline (Kendy)

+ had the Friday session about this, useful to continue the discussion 
there (Jay/Heiko)
+ to define the general approach to the table propeties, style etc. - 
in the sidebar (Jay/Heiko/Kendy)
+ should we eg. remove the table toolbar (that appears when the cursor 
gets into a table, etc.)
+ where to put the table styles - to such a sidebar? to styles & 
formatting?
+ etc.

+ worked on the design during the meeting (Jay/Heiko)
+ reworked the dialog with an almost finished layout (for discussion 
with the community)

* Area Tab design session (Heiko/Jay)
 
+ Area Tab - https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94551
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gf7wqYszXnbrbzbyNlLKbJelMb20ssuimxfszcHP_wM/edit?usp=sharing
+ not published yet
 
* Dedicated Design team blog (Heiko)
 
+ redmine ticket: https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/issues/1505
+ pending on infra
 
* Bug discussions
 
+ none this week

* NotebookBar (Samuel)

+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/NotebookBar
+ screenshot - 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/f/f5/Notebookbar-writer.png
+ NotebookBar allows to create toolbars with glade (Samuel/Kendy)
+ full control over widgets in the topmost area, defined via a .ui file
+ an optional thing for users (Samuel)
+ menus + toolbars the default
+ now in master, but hidden via an env. variable (Kendy)

+ keep in mind the HIG (Heiko)
+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/ToolBar
+ mentions some future enhancements of toolbars that might be helpful 
here (Heiko)
+ eg. grouping
+ possible with Notebookbar
+ eg. 
http://docs.sencha.com/extjs/4.0.7/#!/example/toolbar/toolbars.html ?

   + tabs make toolbars context depending which is against the use case of 
toolbars (Heiko)
   + strucutring the toolbar with labeled groups and perhaps different 
sized buttons make sense
   + the tabs from the current notebookbar should stay a menubar (Heiko)

* Help updating (Kendy)
 
+ new patches, would be great to have a new release (Jay)
+ will do, this time really :-) (Kendy)
 
+ help-related meta bugs:
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94016
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93580
+ wikihelp? (Jay)
+ help proposal
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MULCsm8gD-QPv-W1LbHBynnY0eD16Q6uXsrzpgfJdvQ/edit?usp=sharing
+ idea to use xml editor (Kendy)
+ steps needed:
+ hooks on help.libreoffice.org redirecting to editable page
+ per-user session - own git checkout
+ some way of editing - either the xml help or the xml <-> html 
mapping
+ commit creation in the git + push to gerrit
+ overall - like the idea to have some infra on top of the current 
help,
  easier than the entire editable wiki (Kendy)
 
* Icon Updates / Issues (Jay)

+ Should svgs be stored in repo and pngs created at build time (Samuel)
+ Fast svg import hack working (Tomaz)
 
+ still something wrong with inheritance (Jay)
+ Samuel will look at one of them
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93866
+ easiest solution: eg. for tango, during build concat tango + 
galaxy links.txt, and
  put to images_tango.zip
+ one shared links.txt is probably not possible (Jay/Samuel)
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91565
  tango - 
https://bug-attachments.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=115945
  galaxy - 
https://bug-attachments.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=119516

+ Icons not appearing in help viewer's web view
  

Re: [libreoffice-design] Accelerators duplicates in en_US version

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi,

Sophie píše v St 07. 10. 2015 v 17:33 +0200:

> As you wanted to make a Easy Hack of it, I open a bug (at least that's
> what accelerator duplicates are ;-)
> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94865

Just for the record - this has been "easyhacified"; added the
step-by-step instructions as comment 5.  Anybody who wants to help is
very welcome :-)

All the best,
Kendy


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Request for help: new icon in sdext

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi,

Miklos Vajna píše v Po 12. 10. 2015 v 09:27 +0200:

> Also -- that would also need new icons, perhaps let's try to sort out
> the currently missing 2 icons first. :-)

I fear this deadlocked a bit - Miklos waiting on somebody to provide the
icon, and others waiting on Miklos to pick one of those proposed by
Jay :-)

But I haven't found an iconfinder icon that would have a suitable
license, so I guess better to have one designed from scratch?

Andreas?  Matthias? - or anybody else? :-) Can you please create one?

Thank you,
Kendy


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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2015-10-14

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Cor, Heiko, Jay, Kendy, Samuel
 
* UI changes integrated the last week:

+ Enable auto-numbering by default
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94994
   + previously enabled, then disabled, and now enabled again
   + I remember - not good in the current state (Kendy)
   + if we want to enable it again, then first let's collect what turns into
 numbering + how it is triggered, and let's go through the use cases 
there (Kendy)
AI:+ OK, will revert for now + provide the list (Samuel)
+ remote files related improvements (Szymon)
+ icons recoloring (Tomaž)
+ 32x32 icons for hi-contrast (Andreas)
 
* Annual report (Jay)

+ Sophi asked that we fill in any links to minutes, blog posts, etc.
  http://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/annualreport
+ more info needed, will ask Sophie (Jay)
+ for the reference, report from the last year:
+ 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/4/47/TDF2014AnnualReport.pdf

* Table styles (Kendy)
 
+ would be good to have a Friday session about that (Kendy)
+ already collected stuff in a doc (Jay)
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FPkf9fn79dXJ5tHpc-meMYxaQpj3nV5sEN6u9HOo2GQ/edit?usp=sharing
+ 9th October, 1:00pm CEST / 11:00am UTC (Kendy)
+ more discussion about the proposal (Jay/Heiko/Kendy)
+ afraid of too many elements there (Heiko)
+ will have a follow-up Friday session - to define the general approach to 
the
 table propeties, style etc. - in the sidebar (Jay/Heiko/Kendy)
+ should we eg. remove the table toolbar (that appears when the cursor 
gets into a table, etc.)
+ where to put the table styles - to such a sidebar? to styles & 
formatting?
+ etc.
 
* Last week's design session (Heiko/Jay)
 
+ Area Tab - https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94551
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gf7wqYszXnbrbzbyNlLKbJelMb20ssuimxfszcHP_wM/edit?usp=sharing
+ not published yet
 
* Dedicated Design team blog (Heiko)
 
+ redmine ticket: https://redmine.documentfoundation.org/issues/1505
 
* Bug discussions
 
+ Scale all objects proportionally by default, not only images?
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71669#c26
+ (see as well bug wrt. proportional scaling with side handles #84953)
+ can check other suites (Jay)
+ Word, WPS, and Calligra all have non-proportional
+ but otherwise people generally happy with the images (keep aspect 
ratio) vs. shapes (don't keep)
  approach (Cor/Kendy/Samuel)
+ but maybe some more research / checking the use cases might be 
good

* NotebookBar (Samuel)
 
+ http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/log/?h=feature/notebookbar
+ NotebookBar allows to create toolbars with glade (Samuel/Kendy)
+ full control over widgets in the topmost area, defined via a .ui file
+ an optional thing for users (Samuel)
+ menus + toolbars the default
+ Notebookbar an optional thing
+ probably via an option in the View menu
+ long term, will be a source of some Easy Hacks (Samuel)
+ now just laying down the foundations, later more discussion needed 
(Samuel)
+ can insert new stuff via glade
+ enough to specify the .uno: command, the icon + text is imported from 
the appropriate
  officecfg xml
+ Screenshot so far: http://i.imgur.com/RUUTiuk.png
+ next (Samuel):
+ more structure needed now (so that it is not one monter .ui file)
+ priorities of widgets - container that hides stuff when the screen 
size does not fit
+ theming
+ target: 5.2 (earliest)
+ is it already in master? (Jay)
+ in branch so far (Kendy/Samuel)
+ but hidden via an env. variable - so can merge it to master (Samuel)
+ let's merge it then, keep the env. variable (Jay/Kendy)
+ and the View menu entry when it is more polished
+ keep in mind the HIG (Heiko)
+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/ToolBar
+ mentions some future enhancements of toolbars that might be helpful 
here (Heiko)
+ eg. grouping
+ possible with Notebookbar
 
* Help updating (Kendy)
 
+ new patches, would be great to have a new release (Jay)
+ will do (Kendy)
 
+ help-related meta bugs:
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94016
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93580
+ wikihelp? (Jay)
+ help proposal
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MULCsm8gD-QPv-W1LbHBynnY0eD16Q6uXsrzpgfJdvQ/edit?usp=sharing
+ idea to use xml editor (Kendy)
+ steps needed:
+ hooks on help.libreoffice.org redirecting to editable page
+ per-user session - own git checkout
+ some way of editing - ei

[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2015-10-07

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Adolfo, Heiko, Jay, Kendy, Lera, Steve, Stuart, Tomaž
 
* UI changes integrated the last week:

+ Added entries to links.txt (Jay)
+ Hide whitespace between pages (Ashod)
+ Move drawing and other toolbars to the top in Impress (Jay)
+ More fixes in the Remote files access (Szymon)
+ Sifr icons improvements (Matthias)
+ Changes in Unity Quickstart (Adolfo)
+ Added Galaxy icon (Jay)
+ Breeze icons updates (Andreas)
 
* Update the meeting time (Kendy)
 
+ current time inconvenient a bit, what would be the best time? (Kendy)
+ let's do a doodle (Heiko)

* QA interested in the minutes too (Jay)
 
+ can send it there, just maybe better to subscribe to the projects@ ML? 
(Kendy)
+ still, QA people were interested (Jay)
+ I'll try it then, and stop if I hear complains :-) (Kendy)
 
* 'industrial' icon theme - keep or remove?
 
+ https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/19149/
+ Human also depends on Industrial (Jay)
+ should that be actually depend on Tango? (Jay)
+ best to talk to Bjoern (Michaelsen) (Kendy)
 
* Table styles (Kendy)
 
+ would be good to have a Friday session about that (Kendy)
+ already collected stuff in a doc (Jay)
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FPkf9fn79dXJ5tHpc-meMYxaQpj3nV5sEN6u9HOo2GQ/edit?usp=sharing
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zOsEe_cj-VnFyuPZcld4-WPjwmdsfsaHuOO8e2dfhU0/edit
+ 9th October, 1:00pm CEST / 11:00am UTC (Kendy)
 
* Last week's design session (Heiko/Jay)
 
+ Area Tab - https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94551
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gf7wqYszXnbrbzbyNlLKbJelMb20ssuimxfszcHP_wM/edit?usp=sharing
 
+ talked about the Area properties (Heiko)
 + unfortunately did not finish in time yet (Heiko)
 + more mockups there (Heiko)
+ included color widget (Heiko)
+ some ideas harder to implement (Heiko)
+ bitmap background handling not convenient (Heiko)
+ but overall the proposal nearly finished (Heiko)
+ should publish that when done (Heiko)
+ proved useful with the print dialog (Heiko)
 
* Dedicated Design team blog (Heiko)
 
+ included in the official LibreOffice blog, or better to have a 
design-only one? (Heiko)
+ TDF-infra OK with the idea of design.libreoffice.org (Jay)
+ sounds good (Kendy)
+ initially ~3 people + inclusive for others (Jay)
+ conclusion: Jay will talk to the tdf infra guys to set that up
 
* Bug discussions
 
+ nothing this week
 
* Help updating (Kendy)
 
+ new release 3.1.3 on Monday (Kendy)
+ but more fixes in the meantime again :-) (Jay)
+ help-related meta bugs:
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94016
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93580
+ wikihelp? (Jay)
+ help proposal
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MULCsm8gD-QPv-W1LbHBynnY0eD16Q6uXsrzpgfJdvQ/edit?usp=sharing
+ idea to use xml editor (Kendy)
+ steps needed:
+ hooks on help.libreoffice.org redirecting to editable page
+ per-user session - own git checkout
+ some way of editing - either the xml help or the xml <-> html 
mapping
+ commit creation in the git + push to gerrit
+ overall - like the idea to have some infra on top of the current 
help,
  easier than the entire editable wiki (Kendy)
 
* Icon Updates / Issues (Jay)
 
+ still something wrong with inheritance (Jay)
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93866
 
+ Sifr & breeze for dark themes
+ bug report created (Jay)
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94632

+ Tomaž has an algorithm to create them (Tomaž)
+ re-colors Breeze & Sifr automatically (Tomaž)
+ will push to master soon (Tomaž)
 
+ Elementary icon theme added to git by Bjoern (Jay)
+ but not enabled by default
+ images_human.zip to be placed in /opt/libreofficedev5.1/share/config/
   
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6qJrVIa0SAlTjBkSlJOY01RV3M/view?usp=sharing
+ Human theme in Ubuntu outdated (Jay)
 
+ Tango (Alex/Adolfo/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OErlXIDDGM7V1mOGW8oSCLuhqw5fulT1XhkTik1u2UY/edit?usp=sharing
 
+ Sifr (Papamatti/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/15ZpVaTxg7TAFYhOyQUP3mp-cVtKA1vP5uZAT38t-taA/edit?usp=sharing
 
+ Breeze (Andreas/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dpMFgmkQy4BsyRIKH97ZLPTU6NdvXIYk3Yossj6sSQM/edit?usp=sharing
 
+ Extra-Large (32x32) Icons for large resolutions
+ Status - 
https://docs.google.com/docume

Re: [libreoffice-design] Accelerators duplicates in en_US version

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi Sophie,

Sophie píše v St 07. 10. 2015 v 12:24 +0200:

> Niklas from the l10n team has done some macros to check accelerators and
> search for their duplicates in menu/submenus.
> I ran it on the en_US version and thought you'd be interested by the
> result, maybe to fix the red lines :)

Where it is, please? :-)  Sounds like a good candidate for an Easy Hack?

All the best,
Kendy


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Remove SplashScreen

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi,

Yousuf 'Jay' Philips píše v Ne 04. 10. 2015 v 00:37 +0400:

> > I'd vote for a configuration switch, if at all, which is on by default.
> 
> That would be my vote as well.

I'd prefer not to have a configuration switch :-)  More so, it is too
late for configuration - we try to show the splash as soon in the
startup process as possible.

The 'technical' solution here would be to measure the time to the first
window on every start; and if it is shorter than some limit, assume it
is a fast machine, and not show the splash screen the next time we
start.  [Similarly, once it takes more than the limit, show it
immediately, and trigger its showing the next time again.]

All the best,
Kendy


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[libreoffice-design] HelpAuthoring-3.1.3.oxt released

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi,

I've released a new version of the HelpAuthoring extension.  It is
available here:

  http://dev-www.libreoffice.org/helpauthoring/

Please upgrade to this version, it is recommended for real use - please
help us creating the help pages!  It needs LibreOffice 4.4 or later.

The following has been improved in the version 3.1.3:

+ file type detection for .xhp files (Maxim)
+ show the menu in the Start Center too (Maxim)
+ don't turn fields into expressions (Regina)
+ improve the creation of unique paragraph ID (Jay)
+ improve inline 'switch' functions + add to toolbar (Jay)
+ improve git comparison (Jay)
+ paragraph ID fields should not be hidden (Regina)

If you find bugs, please check the bugzilla if it is already reported,
and if not, report it, and set it as blocking the tracker bug:

  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93580

Or of course try to fix it, it is not that hard.  How to hack it is
described here:

  
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/contrib/dev-tools/tree/helpauthoring/README

All the best,
Kendy


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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2015-09-30

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Cor, Heiko, Jay, Kendy, Lera

* UI changes integrated the last week:

+ Chart sidebar tweaks (Jay)
+ Chained textboxes core functionality (Matteo / GSoC)
+ Better placement of arrow style dropdowns (Jay)
+ AutoCorrect entry in the context menu (Jay)
+ Table styles in Writer core functionality (Kendy, Alex / GSoC)
 
* LibreOffice Conference
 
+ a very good one
+ Jay missed, people were asking :-)
+ ~4 Design / UX related talks (Bubli, Heiko, Kendy, Tomaž)
+ encouraging spirit, interesting conference (Heiko)
 
* Table styles (Kendy)
 
+ core functionality now implemented & pushed to master (Kendy)
+ when an table AutoFormat is applied, it keeps updating the table 
(Kendy)
+ missing pieces: import/export, better UI (Kendy)
+ would be good to have a Friday session about that (Kendy)
+ already collected stuff in a doc (Jay)
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zOsEe_cj-VnFyuPZcld4-WPjwmdsfsaHuOO8e2dfhU0/edit
+ let's try 9th October (Kendy)
 
* Bug discussions
 
+ NAVIGATOR: Reverse the behaviour of the page number control
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89553
+ problem that there is a spin button, and pushing the 'up' arrow actually 
does PgDown
+ proposal: change to input field + have PgUp and PgDown buttons there 
(Heiko)
+ like [down] [input-line-with-the-number [up] (Heiko)


https://bug-attachments.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=119144

+ would slightly prefer [up] and [down] close to each other so that 
you don't
  have to travel with the mouse too much when you touch it one more
  time than desired ;-) (Kendy)
+ already quite many buttons there :-( (Jay)
+ we shouldn't change the meaning of the buttons - in Gtk3 they are 
presented
  as [+] and [-], we would change the meaning there (Kendy)
 + so either we should have own buttons there (Heiko's 
proposal),
   or let it be (Kendy)
+ conclusion: Let it be for now (wontfix)
+ actually it turns out there are many inconsistencies & bugs in the 
navigation panel
+ sometimes the view is changed, sometimes the cursor position
+ the spinfield is not updated when changing the position in the 
document
+ etc.
+ and it looks too packed at the top, and empty at the bottom
+ have a proposal with better layout (Jay)
+ 
https://bug-attachments.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=113625
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89566
+ looks like a good topic for one of the Friday session? (Kendy)

* Help updating (Kendy)
 
+ new release? (Kendy)
+ 1 pending patch in gerrit, 1 local one (Jay)
+ so with these two, please do release (Jay)
+ help-related meta bugs:
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94016
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93580
+ wikihelp? (Jay)
+ help proposal
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MULCsm8gD-QPv-W1LbHBynnY0eD16Q6uXsrzpgfJdvQ/edit?usp=sharing
+ idea to use xml editor (Kendy)
+ License for new help files (Jay)
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94618
 
* Icon Updates / Issues (Jay)
 
+ still something wrong with inheritance (Jay)
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90790
+ went through the reproducer with Jay, it's an additional bug (Kendy)
+ will create a report (Jay)
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93866
 
+ Sifr & breeze for dark themes
+ bug report created (Jay)
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94632
 
+ Icon package dependent packages (Jay)
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94408
+ This has to be addressed by contacting package maintainers
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-openoffice/2015/09/msg00343.html

+ Tango (Alex/Adolfo/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OErlXIDDGM7V1mOGW8oSCLuhqw5fulT1XhkTik1u2UY/edit?usp=sharing
 
+ Sifr (Papamatti/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/15ZpVaTxg7TAFYhOyQUP3mp-cVtKA1vP5uZAT38t-taA/edit?usp=sharing
+ patch in to fix navigator icons - 
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/19034/ (Jay)
 
+ Breeze (Andreas/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dpMFgmkQy4BsyRIKH97ZLPTU6NdvXIYk3Yossj6sSQM/edit?usp=sharing
+ patch to fix some navigator icons - 
https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/19041 (Jay)
 
+ Extra-Large (32x32) Icons for large resolutions
+ Status - 
https://docs.google.com/docu

[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2015-09-16

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Heiko, Kendy, Jay, Mattias
 
* UI changes integrated the last week:

+ Printer missing from tooltip (Samuel)
+ Sifr updates (Matthias)
 
* Update the meeting time (Kendy)
 
+ current time inconvenient a bit, what would be the best time? (Kendy)
+ let's do a doodle (Heiko)
 
* LibreOffice Conference
 
+ September 23-25, 2015, Aarhus, Denmark
+ http://conference.libreoffice.org/2015/call-for-papers/
+ see you there!
 
* Help updating (Kendy)
 
+ Jay pushed many more improvements recently to gerrit
+ when all approved, will release a new version (Kendy)
+ help-related meta bugs:
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94016
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93580
+ wikihelp? (Jay)
+ help proposal
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MULCsm8gD-QPv-W1LbHBynnY0eD16Q6uXsrzpgfJdvQ/edit?usp=sharing
+ idea to use xml editor (Kendy)
+ add repo path to wiki help
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94044
+ easily doable (Kendy)
+ HelpAuthoring now reasonably OK for new help pages, but one has to be 
extremely
  careful when editing existing stuff (Kendy)
+ modulo some bugs - when editing a field, it can destroy some other 
fields
  with "** Expression is faulty **" message
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94167
 
* Icon Updates / Issues (Jay)
 
+ still something wrong with inheritance (Jay)
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90790
+ went through the reproducer with Jay, it's an additional bug (Kendy)
+ will create a report (Jay)
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93866
 
+ Sifr & breeze for dark themes
+ would be good to have versinos that use lighter colors (Jay)
+ ideally done in S/W (Kendy)
+ please create a bug for that Jay (Kendy)
+ I'll add the code pointers then (Kendy)

+ idea about breeze-color (Heiko)
+ talked to Andreas
+ Idea: background color wrt. function/catgory
+ sometimes the toolbar is too grey (Heiko)
+ would be good to be able to download + use new icon theme easily 
(Heiko)
+ problem to find a developer :-( - a bit of hacking involved 
(Kendy)
 
+ Tango (Alex/Adolfo/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OErlXIDDGM7V1mOGW8oSCLuhqw5fulT1XhkTik1u2UY/edit?usp=sharing
 
+ Sifr (Papamatti/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/15ZpVaTxg7TAFYhOyQUP3mp-cVtKA1vP5uZAT38t-taA/edit?usp=sharing
+ pushed one patch this week (crop icon); to 5.0 too, plus some updates 
(Jay)
 
+ Breeze (Andreas/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dpMFgmkQy4BsyRIKH97ZLPTU6NdvXIYk3Yossj6sSQM/edit?usp=sharing
 
+ Extra-Large (32x32) Icons for large resolutions
+ Status - 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mPqD2gGsMkfVCI6ByUd2XYX1NJm26hcGjRVe6gcCSEU/edit?usp=sharing
 
* Templates Competition (Jay)
 
+ no news this week

* 5.0 Artwork (Jay)
 
+ no news this week

* UI Guidelines (Heiko)
 
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hSYOFoG6jnj2G0zWDbUYkrGZoj7YCSI9j3onkTZ65bU/edit
 
+ replace "UX principles" 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Principles by "HIG"
  on http://www.libreoffice.org/community/design";?
+ UX principles good & relevant, but not specific enough (Heiko)
+ suggest to change this link to the HIG instead:
  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Guidelines
+ conclusion: Will mail webs...@global.libreoffice.org (Heiko) / done
+ Stuart recommends to wait with pushing the HIG to a more prominent 
place until it is more refined. (Stuart/Heiko)
+ then again - never let perfect be enemy of the good ;-) (Kendy)
+ I think it would be enough to improve the look of
  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Guidelines a bit, and 
switch (Kendy)
+ sidebar + dialogs
+ added to wiki
 
* Writer: Styles menubar entry (Jay)
 
+ what character should be in the list? - would like to add more (Jay)
+ citation maybe? (Heiko)
+ text body vs. default
+ what's the difference? (Jay)
+ preference to use 'text body'
 
+ problem with table styles - even with ODF
+ a GSoC implementation exists, unfortunately not merged yet (Kendy)
+ 
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/log/?h=feature/table-style
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94076
+ table style support - 
http://www.vandenoever.info/tmp/2015/sep/table-properties/report.html
 
* Chart sidebar (Jay)
 
+ Moggi said sidebar work is going along

[libreoffice-design] HelpAuthoring-3.1.2.oxt released

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi,

I've released a new version of the HelpAuthoring extension.  It is
available here:

  http://dev-www.libreoffice.org/helpauthoring/

Please upgrade to this version, it is recommended for real use - please
help us creating the help pages!  It needs LibreOffice 4.4 or later.

Jay is the hero of this release, he has fixed a tremendous amount of
bugs, and implemented many features - thank you!  Follows a shortened
list:

* Usability improvements

+ Much improved menu, and added entries for many features (Jay)
+ Toolbar for easy access of the most needed features (Jay)
+ Wizard for creating a new page (Jay)
+ Suppress unnecessary dialogs (Jay)
+ Command to compare changes in git (Jay)

+ Insert product name and version variables (Jay)
+ Insert switch and switchinline tags (Jay)

+ Ability to reload the help (Jay)
+ Open embedded or linked help (Jay)
+ Use the last used dir when opening file (Jay)

* Bugfixes and file format improvements

+ Make the diffs between original & edited version smaller by
  reordering some attributes (Jay)
+ Don't clear help topic id and indexer, don't set indexer when
  creating a new page (Jay)
+ Various fixes to functions so that they preform better (Jay)

+ Improve the template (Jay)

If you find bugs, please check the bugzilla if it is already reported,
and if not, report it, and set it as blocking the tracker bug:

  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93580

Or of course try to fix it, it is not that hard.  How to hack it is
described here:

  
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/contrib/dev-tools/tree/helpauthoring/README

All the best,
Kendy


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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2015-09-10

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Heiko, Jay, Kendy, Mattias, Stuart
 
* UI changes integrated the last week:

+ Sifr icon set updates (Matthias)
+ Improvements in the remote file dialog (Szymon)
+ Custom color for data bars (Bubli)
+ Don't hide zoom slider with a tooltip (Laszlo)
+ Hide separator between two windows (Maxim)
 
* Update the meeting time (Kendy)
 
+ current time inconvenient quite a bit, what would be the best time? 
(Kendy)
+ let's do a doodle (Heiko)
 
* LibreOffice Conference
 
+ September 23-25, 2015, Aarhus, Denmark
+ http://conference.libreoffice.org/2015/call-for-papers/
+ would be great to have you all there :-)
 
* GSoC
 
+ Rishabh to continue some changes after he's done with the exams
 
* Help updating (Jay/Kendy)
 
+ Jay started hacking the HelpAuthoring extension, thanks so much! :-) 
(Kendy)
+ help-related meta bugs:
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94016
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93580
+ wikihelp? (Jay)
+ help proposal
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MULCsm8gD-QPv-W1LbHBynnY0eD16Q6uXsrzpgfJdvQ/edit?usp=sharing
+ yes; unfortunately long-term (Kendy)
+ add repo path to wiki help
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94044
+ easily doable (Kendy)
+ HelpAuthoring now reasonably OK for new help pages, but one has to be 
extremely
  careful when editing existing stuff (Kendy)
+ Need to know which help tags and attributes are not important, e.g. 
 in  (Jay)
 
* Icon Updates / Issues (Jay)
 
+ Please push Kendy (Jay)
  https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/18322
  https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/18321
+ pushed now (Kendy)
 
+ still something wrong with inheritance (Jay)
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90790
+ went through the reproducer with Jay, it's an additional bug (Kendy)
+ will create a report (Jay)
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93866
 
+ Heiko will met Andreas at the KDE sprint (Heiko)
+ if there is anything do discuss, let Heiko know
+ Uri will there too
+ is Andreas going to the LibreOffice conference too?  Would be great 
to meet finally :-) (Kendy)
+ unfortunately not
 
+ Sifr & breeze for dark themes
+ would be good to have versinos that use lighter colors (Jay)
+ ideally done in S/W (Kendy)
+ please create a bug for that Jay (Kendy)
+ I'll add the code pointers then (Kendy)
 
+ Tango (Alex/Adolfo/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OErlXIDDGM7V1mOGW8oSCLuhqw5fulT1XhkTik1u2UY/edit?usp=sharing
 
+ Sifr (Papamatti/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/15ZpVaTxg7TAFYhOyQUP3mp-cVtKA1vP5uZAT38t-taA/edit?usp=sharing
 
+ Breeze (Andreas/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dpMFgmkQy4BsyRIKH97ZLPTU6NdvXIYk3Yossj6sSQM/edit?usp=sharing
 
+ Extra-Large (32x32) Icons for large resolutions
+ Status - 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mPqD2gGsMkfVCI6ByUd2XYX1NJm26hcGjRVe6gcCSEU/edit?usp=sharing
 
* Templates Competition (Jay)
 
+ Wiki page setup
  
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Templates_for_LibreOffice_5.0
+ many new templates
+ unfortunately missed the 5.0 :-( (Jay)
+ but would be still good to add to master - so that we don't miss 5.1 
(Kendy)
 
* 5.0 Artwork (Jay)
 
+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Visual_Elements should be updated 
with the new 5.0 stuff
+ will put the 5.0 stuff together (Kendy)
+ or ask Cloph (Kendy)
 
* UI Guidelines (Heiko)
 
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hSYOFoG6jnj2G0zWDbUYkrGZoj7YCSI9j3onkTZ65bU/edit
 
+ replace "UX principles" 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Principles by "HIG"
  on http://www.libreoffice.org/community/design";?
+ UX principles good & relevant, but not specific enough (Heiko)
+ suggest to change this link to the HIG instead:
  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Guidelines
+ conclusion: Will mail webs...@global.libreoffice.org (Heiko) / done
+ Stuart recommends to wait with pushing the HIG to a more prominent 
place until it is more refined. (Stuart/Heiko)
+ sidebar + dialogs
+ added to wiki
 
* Next Friday's design session (Heiko/Jay)
 
+ Friday session this week (Sep/04)
+ 1:00pm CEST / 11:00am UTC
+ Print dialog - Bubli's proposals / asks: "Improving printing UX" 
thread tdf#91362, tdf#61186
+ had the session with Bubli
+ http://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/UX-PrintDialog
+ conclusion: remove File -> Printer Settings..., the settings are 
ava

[libreoffice-design] HelpAuthoring-3.1.1.oxt released

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi,

I've released a new version of the HelpAuthoring extension.  It is
available here:

  http://dev-www.libreoffice.org/helpauthoring/

Please upgrade to this version, it has the following fixes:

* Keeps the leading '/' in  (thanks to Regina)
* Has better organized menu (thanks to Jay)
* Forces the user to set the Document Root (Kendy)

This version needs LibreOffice 4.4 or later.

If you find further bugs, please check the bugzilla if it is already
reported, and if not, report it, and set it as blocking the tracker bug:

  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93580

Thank you for helping authoring the help! :-)

All the best,
Kendy


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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2015-09-02

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Jay, Kendy, Heiko

* UI changes integrated the last few weeks:

+ completely reworked the remote file access UI (Szymon / GSoC)
+ delete unnecessary options from Tools -> Options... (Mihály)
+ many improvements in dialogs (Maxim)
+ toolbars improvements (Jay)
+ Alt-X to toggle unicode notation (Justin)
+ Breeze icons improvements (Andreas)
+ sidebar fixes (Tomaž)
+ icon fixes (Jay)
+ themes panel (Tomaž)
+ new controls to the Wrap sidebar tab (Rishabh)
+ [and other bits I probably missed when going through the logs :-)]
 
* Update the meeting time (Kendy)
 
+ current time inconvenient a bit, what would be the best time? (Kendy)
+ let's do a doodle (Heiko)
 
* LibreOffice Conference
 
+ September 23-25, 2015, Aarhus, Denmark
+ http://conference.libreoffice.org/2015/call-for-papers/
+ don't forget to register!
 
* GSoC
 
+ went well, Rishab did great (Jay)
+ Jay learns basics of using Glade
+ so he does not have to wait on other people doing changes in .ui files
 
* Help updating (Kendy)
 
+ was unable to have a look yet (Jay)
+ will have a look this week
+ new version of HelpAuthoring*.oxt published (Kendy)
+ http://dev-www.libreoffice.org/helpauthoring/
+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Help has the 
general info (Kendy)

+ wikihelp? (Jay)
+ still mid- to long-term thing :-( (Kendy)
+ help.libreoffice.org is generated from the .xhp's, edits done via 
changing .xhp's will
  be converted to wikihelp when we switch one day (Kendy)
+ translations are from Pootle (Kendy)
 
* Icon Updates / Issues (Jay)
 
+ still something wrong with inheritance (Jay)
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90790
+ went through the reproducer with Jay, it's an additional bug (Kendy)
+ will create a report (Jay)
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=93866

+ Heiko will meet Andreas the next week at the KDE sprint (Heiko)
+ if there is anything do discuss, let Heiko know
+ Uri will there too
+ is Andreas going to the LibreOffice conference too?  Would be great 
to meet finally :-) (Kendy)
 
+ Sifr & breeze for dark themes
+ would be good to have versinos that use lighter colors (Jay)
+ ideally done in S/W (Kendy)
+ please create a bug for that Jay (Kendy)
+ I'll add the code pointers then (Kendy)
 
+ Tango (Alex/Adolfo/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OErlXIDDGM7V1mOGW8oSCLuhqw5fulT1XhkTik1u2UY/edit?usp=sharing
 
+ Sifr (Papamatti/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/15ZpVaTxg7TAFYhOyQUP3mp-cVtKA1vP5uZAT38t-taA/edit?usp=sharing
 
+ Breeze (Andreas/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dpMFgmkQy4BsyRIKH97ZLPTU6NdvXIYk3Yossj6sSQM/edit?usp=sharing
 
+ Extra-Large (32x32) Icons for large resolutions
+ Status - 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mPqD2gGsMkfVCI6ByUd2XYX1NJm26hcGjRVe6gcCSEU/edit?usp=sharing
 
* Templates Competition (Jay)
 
+ Wiki page setup
  
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Templates_for_LibreOffice_5.0
+ many new templates
+ unfortunately missed the 5.0 :-( (Jay)
+ but would be still good to add to master - so that we don't miss 5.1 
(Kendy)
+ promise of some more additions this week (Jay)
 
+ Jay, please feel encouraged to push good stuff to master (Kendy)
+ we will have enough time to tweak or remove before 5.1 (Kendy)
+ a survey might be better though? (Heiko)
+ what should we ask exactly? (Jay)
+ would be good to have a way to involve the people in the 
improving, not only yes/no (Kendy)
+ where in the sources? (Jay)
+ extras/source/templates/*
+ sfx2/source/doc/doctempl.src shows the names of the categories

* 5.0 Artwork (Jay)
 
+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Visual_Elements should be updated 
with the new 5.0 stuff
+ will put the 5.0 stuff together (Kendy)
 
* UI Guidelines (Heiko)
 
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hSYOFoG6jnj2G0zWDbUYkrGZoj7YCSI9j3onkTZ65bU/edit
 
+ replace "UX principles" 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Principles by "HIG"
  on http://www.libreoffice.org/community/design";?
+ UX principles good & relevant, but not specific enough (Heiko)
+ suggest to change this link to the HIG instead:
  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Guidelines
+ conclusion: Will mail webs...@global.libreoffice.org (Heiko) /done
 
+ context menus
+ added to the wiki
+ sidebar + dialogs
+ will go to the wiki, BUT the undecided part

[libreoffice-design] Hangout today and the next 2 weeks

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi,

I am away in the evening, and completely out for the next two
Wednesdays, so cannot start the hangout - sorry about that.

As usually - would be great if you can agree on the #libreoffice-design
channel who starts the hangout as usually :-)  If you can send few lines
what you were talking about to the mailing list too, that would be even
better.

Sorry again about the short notice; September will be back to normal.

All the best,
Kendy


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[libreoffice-design] Cannot start the hangout today

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi,

I am sorry, unexpectedly on the way, cannot attend today :-(  If you can agree 
on the IRC about the meeting, it would be great.

All the best,
Kendy
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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2015-07-29 [call canceled]

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi,

Just Mattias appeared in the first 15 minutes, so we canceled the call.
Hopefully we'll have more people attending the next week! :-) [but it's
vacation period, so...]

All the best,
Kendy


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[libreoffice-design] Help Authoring Extension

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi,

I've spent some time today fixing the HelpAuthoring extension, and
together with the Regina's fix (thank you, Regina!), I think it got to a
usable state :-)

  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Help

describes where to get it, and the basic usage.  More detailed user
manual can be found here:

  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/HelpContent

The .xhp's generated by the extension are now nicely formatted, which
means that when you save a .xhp in the help repository, it will likely
be a big diff the first time (due to the changed formatting - strings
should be preserved); but from then on, the changes should be tiny, as
the format will be much better defined.

Also the editing directly in LibreOffice seems to be neat & usable.
There might be rough edges still - but I hope no blocker any more.

In other words - *no excuses* for not writing help any more ;-)

Please do use it, and if you experience trouble, either fix it yourself:

  
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/contrib/dev-tools/tree/helpauthoring/README

or let me know - the xslt that implements the export filter is trivial.

Would be good to start thinking of a workflow between the developers and
the documentation team - I imagine developers could stub help for things
they are developing, and the documentation team members would then
finalize and de-hackerize that, but ideas how to grow the community of
help authors much appreciated.

[BTW - if you are wondering about the editable wikihelp: no, I'm not
abandoning the idea; but that is a long-term quest, and the help needs
improving _now_.]

All the best,
Kendy


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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2015-07-22

[Jan Holesovsky]

* [Meeting on 2015-07-15 was skipped]

* Present: Heiko, Jay, Marek, Kendy
 
* UI changes integrated the last 2 weeks:

+ chart sidebar implementation (Moggi)
+ rework of the access to remote files (GSoC - Szymon)
+ toolbar changes in Draw (Jay)
+ Gtk+ theme improvements (Simon)
+ lighter default color for minor grid lines (Bubli)
+ sub-toolbar controller + associated cleanup and fixes (Maxim)
+ Gtk3 continued (Caolán)
+ Gtk3 hi-dpi (Tomaž)
+ UI changes in the Calc sidebar (Rishabh)
+ status updates for custom shapes buttons (Maxim)
 
* LibreOffice Conference
 
+ September 23-25, 2015, Aarhus, Denmark
+ http://conference.libreoffice.org/2015/call-for-papers/
+ would be great to have you all there :-) - please submit a paper!
+ Heiko sent a proposal "The LibreOffice Human Interface Guidelines"
+ Kendy sent a proposal too
 
* Help updating (Kendy)
 
+ hot topic in the ESC
+ new version of HelpAuthoring*.oxt in the works (Kendy)
+ will try that over the weekend (Jay)
+ how to get it? (Jay)
+ http://dev-www.libreoffice.org/helpauthoring/
+ will ping you & announce the today's version when I test it 
(Kendy)
+ https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Help has the 
general info (Kendy)
+ only master modified, not 5.0 wrt. the menus (Jay)
+ so all will be happening in the next version (Jay)
 
* Icon Updates / Issues (Jay)
 
+ will modify the status when gone through the emails (Jay)
 
+ Tango (Alex/Adolfo/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OErlXIDDGM7V1mOGW8oSCLuhqw5fulT1XhkTik1u2UY/edit?usp=sharing
 
+ Sifr (Papamatti/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/15ZpVaTxg7TAFYhOyQUP3mp-cVtKA1vP5uZAT38t-taA/edit?usp=sharing
+ Papamatti has pushed new icons (Jay)
 
+ Breeze (Andreas/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dpMFgmkQy4BsyRIKH97ZLPTU6NdvXIYk3Yossj6sSQM/edit?usp=sharing
+ Andreas has pushed some changes (Jay)
 
+ Extra-Large (32x32) Icons for large resolutions
+ Status - 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mPqD2gGsMkfVCI6ByUd2XYX1NJm26hcGjRVe6gcCSEU/edit?usp=sharing
 
* Templates Competition (Jay)
 
+ Wiki page setup
  
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Templates_for_LibreOffice_5.0
+ many new templates
+ still possible to get that to 5.0? (Jay)
+ RC4 ~tomorrow (Kendy)
+ needs 3 reviews; suggest to integrate the best ones, and consider the 
rest for 5.0.1 (Kendy)
+ will ping Kendy tomorrow with the list (Jay)

* LibreOffice 5.0 splash + start center + about box new theme (Kendy)
 
+ 1st round integrated (Kendy)
+ got the About graphics, windows installer & OS X dnd installer
+ forwarded to Cloph for integration (Kendy)
 
* UI Guidelines (Heiko)
 
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hSYOFoG6jnj2G0zWDbUYkrGZoj7YCSI9j3onkTZ65bU/edit
 
+ replace "UX principles" 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Principles by "HIG"
  on http://www.libreoffice.org/community/design";?
+ UX principles good & relevant, but not specific enough (Heiko)
+ suggest to change this link to the HIG instead:
  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Guidelines
+ conclusion: let's do it, unless there are complains in a reply to 
these minutes :-)

+ context menus
+ added to the wiki
+ sidebar + dialogs
+ will go to the wiki, BUT the undecided parts will be marked as work 
in progress
+ sidebar
+ good topic for the conference (Heiko)
+ works on now sidebar for chart with Moggi (Heiko)
+ changes the pattern a bit
+ would be good to unify - needs more people for feedback
 
* Next Friday's design session (Heiko/Jay)
 
+ Friday session this week
+ not happening this week as Heiko's busy; could do on Thursday
+ could do it for 1hr tomorrow (Kendy)
+ 1:00pm CEST / 11:00 UTC
 
+ next topics:
+ CMIS new dialogs - check the status / original design, see how it 
works
+ Print dialog - Bubli's proposals / asks: "Improving printing UX" 
thread tdf#91362, tdf#61186
 
+ List of possible future topics
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XiJauFHrSmM5LsaV0AlglhfUh8D1IxAg8qistP0KAQA/edit?usp=sharing
+ Steve wants the sidebar "configuration menu" icon gone: "it's useless 
confusing, thus user unfriendly,
  creates frustration and clutters the UI."
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91824
 
* Easy hacks for Marek (Jay)
 
+ looking at the Basic IDE (Marek)
+ 
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/GSoC/GenialIdeas#Bunch_of_Basic_IDE_improvements
  

[libreoffice-design] Re: [GSoC] Improve user experience with CMIS – Weekly report #6

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi Szymon,

Szymon Kłos píše v Pá 10. 07. 2015 v 21:16 +0200:

> I think this is a good moment, considering that I completed most of work
> needed by my dialog.

And I see this has happened - great stuff, thank you! :-)

It works pretty well for me, only few UX comments:

* when opening the "Open Remote", and there is no service added yet, the
  "Add service" dialog should open directly

* when opening the "Open Remote" dialog, either the list of files should
  be populated (using the currently selected service), or some feedback
  should be given that some user action is expected first

* [to be discussed in with the UX/Design team] should we have a "Reload"
  button in the "Open Remote" dialog?  Where, if yes?

* in the "Open Remote", some kind of feedback "something is happening"
  is necessary in when reading the list of files from the remote

* "Label:" in the "Add service" dialog should pre-file according to the
  user name; like when the user name is 'johndoe', and the service is
  GDrive, the Label: should pre-file with "Johndoe's GDrive" or
  something (with the possibility to change this by the user if he/she
  wants)

* opening file from the recent documents in the start center asks for
  the user name (would be good to remember that or have that as part of
  the URL it remembers), and then does not open the file - only the busy
  mouse pointer keeps rolling

* [to be discussed within the UX/Design team] should we merge the Save
  and Save As buttons now, to have a split button there - Save as the
  default action, and the Save As File... and Save Remote File... in the
  submenu?

* "Remote File" submenu for Save As should be renamed to "Save Remote
  File..." to give more idea what's going on

* no "Save Remote File..." submenu in the LibreOffice Impress and Draw

I am sorry if this feedback comes too early, and all this is actually on
your todo :-)  Either way - great stuff, love the work done so far!

All the best,
Kendy


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[libreoffice-design] LibreOffice 5.0 branding contest results

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi guys,

Thank you so much for participating in the LibreOffice 5.0 branding
contest!

  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/5.0_Branding

Deciding there was hard, all the ideas were good, but in the end, the
branding for 5.0 uses concepts from Andreas and Jun.  As promised,
you'll get a T-shirt :-) - please send me your size and address
privately.

The designs are not used verbatim though, they were combined and
extended by a designer hired to do that after a discussion between the
Board, Design and Marketing representatives.

The new branding will be available in the RC3, and there might be slight
changes to the further RC's based on the feedback.

Thank you all, and hope you'll participate in the next contests again!

All the best,
Kendy


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[libreoffice-design] Re: new branding for 5.0: progress bar missing

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi Jean-Baptiste,

Jean-Baptiste Faure píše v Pá 10. 07. 2015 v 06:21 +0200:

> I tested the new branding (I like it :-) ) in LO 5.0 (Version: 5.0.0.2.0+
> Build ID: 41ddfa59870f85e8676ddc0f00228f853d820dc5)

Glad you like it!  It is based on the Andreas' and Jun's designs from
the 5.0 branding contest:

  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/5.0_Branding ,

finalized by a designer hired to do that.

[Which reminds me - we promised a t-shirt to the winning participant(s)
of that contest, need to organize that :-)]

> and the master (Version: 5.1.0.0.alpha1+
> Build ID: 2aefb89b299e7ebdca5bb35aa4e9059e59805715)
> 
> In the master, the progress bar in the splash-screen is visible (it is
> black). I do not see it in LO 5.0 although the splash-screen stays on
> the screen for 2 - 3 seconds. Is it intended?

5.0 should have the progress bar too, I'll try to check what's up there;
please file a bug and CC me.

Thank you,
Kendy


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[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2015-07-08

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Heiko, Jay, Marek, Matthias, Kendy, Rishabh, Steve, Stuart
 
* UI changes integrated the last week:

+ Breeze updates (Andreas)
+ .ui dialogs improvements (Adolfo)
+ Improvements in thumbnailing (Maxim)
+ Fix selecting location in Properties dialog (Szymon)
+ Sifr updates (Matthias)
+ Tango updates (Adolfo)
+ Redraw the last used color after theme change (Maxim)
+ Make "printer was modified" status persistent (Bubli)
+ Fix search in Expert Configuration dialog (Mihály)
+ Rework start center accelerators (Stuart)
+ Don't attempt to show commontaskbar in Draw (Maxim)
 
* LibreOffice Conference
 
+ September 23-25, 2015, Aarhus, Denmark
+ http://conference.libreoffice.org/2015/call-for-papers/
+ would be great to have you all there :-) - please submit a paper!
 
* Icon Updates / Issues (Jay)
 
+ Tango (Alex/Adolfo/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OErlXIDDGM7V1mOGW8oSCLuhqw5fulT1XhkTik1u2UY/edit?usp=sharing
 
+ Sifr (Papamatti/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/15ZpVaTxg7TAFYhOyQUP3mp-cVtKA1vP5uZAT38t-taA/edit?usp=sharing
+ Papamatti has pushed new icons (Jay)
 
+ Breeze (Andreas/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dpMFgmkQy4BsyRIKH97ZLPTU6NdvXIYk3Yossj6sSQM/edit?usp=sharing
+ Andreas has pushed some changes (Jay)
 
+ Extra-Large (32x32) Icons for large resolutions
+ Status - 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mPqD2gGsMkfVCI6ByUd2XYX1NJm26hcGjRVe6gcCSEU/edit?usp=sharing
 
* Templates Competition (Jay)
 
+ Wiki page setup
  
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Templates_for_LibreOffice_5.0
+ 7 templates submitted so far
+ went through the templates & rated them
+ added notes & recommendations, Jay will follow-up with the authors
 
* GSoC (Rishabh)
 
+ going fine (was facing some problesm, but fine now)
+ finished the slide background section
+ improving the selection analyzer for Writer
 
* LibreOffice 5.0 splash + start center + about box new theme (Kendy)
 
+ polishing is ongoing in the Visual Identity group
+ implementation of the new colors for the start center done (Kendy)
 
* UI Guidelines (Heiko)
 
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hSYOFoG6jnj2G0zWDbUYkrGZoj7YCSI9j3onkTZ65bU/edit
 
+ context menus
+ questions about limitations of the amount of items - seems like a 
misunderstanding
+ sidebar
+ concerns about the fixed size (non-resizability)
+ position of tabs (at the top) - does not work when closed
 
+ dialogs (Heiko)
+ no good guideline for sidebar vs. tabs in the dialogs (what is better 
when)
+ navigation in the sidebar - is that too much efort though?
+ do the users in fact want changes there?
+ like, the text properties now have 9 tabs!
+ seems people like redesigns in general
+ should icons be used?
+ resizability
+ if well designed, no need to resize vs. resize gives freedom to 
the user
+ not much interested in redesign it seems though
+ let's not change without user's complains
 
* Sidebar constrained by content and resizable (Heiko/Jay/Stuart)
 
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92317
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90374
 
+ concerned that we contstrain the sidebar in the HIG too much (Stuart)
+ when it is too much in the development
+ and before its purpose is settled down
+ like: codifying if it should have fixed size or resizable is a bit 
premature (Stuart)
+ example: navigator or gallery are more dialogs (Stuart)
+ navigator is actually a floating windows (Jay)
+ sidebar - actually a hybrid between a toolbar and dialog (Stuart)
+ some consistency issue, but overall sidebar fairly consistent UI as is
  and how it continues to develop (Stuart)
+ becomes flexible & rich (Stuart)
 
+ there were additional ideas (like the accordion) (Heiko)
 
+ eg. page size is not necessary in the Sidebar (Heiko)
+ a cut needs to be found (Heiko)
+ sidebar should provide access to the most used features (Heiko)

+ discussion will continue at a future meeting (Jay)
 
* Next Friday's design session (Jay)
 
+ Friday session this week
+ not happening this week as heiko's busy
+ 1:00pm CEST / 11:00 UTC
 
+ List of possible future topics
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XiJauFHrSmM5LsaV0AlglhfUh8D1IxAg8qistP0KAQA/edit?usp=sharing
+ Steve wants the sidebar "configuration menu" icon gone: "it's useless 
confusing, thus user unfriendly,
  creates frustration and clutters the UI."
  https://bugs

[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2015-07-01

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Heiko, Jay, Marek, Mattias, Kendy, Steve

* UI changes integrated the last week:

+ Many new and updated Breeze, Galaxy and Sifr icons (Andreas)
+ Sifr improvements (Matthias)
+ Improve chart formatting toolbar (Jay)
+ Better linting of .ui files (Rosemary)
+ Darker background for master view (Bubli)
+ Move away accidental tango_testing icons (Andreas)
+ Hide master slide button in the toolbar (Jay)
+ Minor fixes to the reorganized menus (Jay)
+ Improved sidebar selection analyser for Calc and Draw/Impress (Rishab)
+ New colors for the startcenter (Kendy)
 
* LibreOffice Conference
 
+ September 23-25, 2015, Aarhus, Denmark
+ http://conference.libreoffice.org/2015/call-for-papers/
+ would be great to have you all there :-) - please submit a paper!
 
* Icon Updates / Issues (Jay)

+ Breeze icons appearing in Sifr navigator (Jay)
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91379
  screenshot 4.4 vs 5.0 - 
https://vm150.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=115723
+ found, commented in the bug (Kendy)
 
+ Icons to push into 5.0 if not already pushed (Jay)
  
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=ff06895b3e3a664c2238e358c02ae5b755e2ce06
+ https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/16635/ seems not to be in 
libreoffice-5-0
+ cherry-picked that as https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/1/
 
+ Limit to making changes to icons in 5.0 (Jay)
  https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/16542/
  Adolfo and Norbert have diffferent opinion on this
+ the problem is that the tango_testing icons shouldn't have been there 
in the first place (Jay)
+ change is in a theme that is not default on any platform (Kendy)
+ not affecting any documentation etc.
+ and are fixes - improves at least the fallback for now
+ Andreas woring on the real Sifr icons there - to be pushed later
+ in general - for large changes that affect very visible areas, they 
need to be synced with ESC / triple-reviewed
+ but for normal / small fixes, the usual rules apply (1 review is 
enough until the last RC)
 
+ Tango (Alex/Adolfo/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OErlXIDDGM7V1mOGW8oSCLuhqw5fulT1XhkTik1u2UY/edit?usp=sharing
 
+ Sifr (Papamatti/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/15ZpVaTxg7TAFYhOyQUP3mp-cVtKA1vP5uZAT38t-taA/edit?usp=sharing
+ Papamatti has pushed new icons (Jay)
+ Andreas will create new chart icons (Jay)
 
+ Breeze (Andreas/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dpMFgmkQy4BsyRIKH97ZLPTU6NdvXIYk3Yossj6sSQM/edit?usp=sharing
+ Andreas has pushed some changes (Jay)
 
+ Extra-Large (32x32) Icons for large resolutions
+ Status - 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mPqD2gGsMkfVCI6ByUd2XYX1NJm26hcGjRVe6gcCSEU/edit?usp=sharing
 
* Templates Competition (Jay)
 
+ Wiki page setup
  
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Templates_for_LibreOffice_5.0
+ 5 templates submitted so far
 
+ 1st round of review the next meeting, please check beforehand :-)
 
* LibreOffice 5.0 splash + start center + about box new theme (Kendy)
 
+ vote is ongoing in the Visual Identity group
+ results will be tomorrow, then finalized for the next RC
+ implementation of the new colors for the start center ongoing (Kendy)
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90452#c45
 
* UI Guidelines (Heiko)
 
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hSYOFoG6jnj2G0zWDbUYkrGZoj7YCSI9j3onkTZ65bU/edit
 
+ have written the sidebar discussion
+ some replies on that (Heiko)
+ discussion of the replios (Heiko/Jay)
+ accepted / commented the changes
+ will publish tomorrow (Heiko)
 
+ next steps: dialogs
 
* Next Friday's design session (Jay)
 
+ Friday session this week
+ dialogs are next
+ 1:00pm CEST / 11:00 UTC
 
+ List of possible future topics
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XiJauFHrSmM5LsaV0AlglhfUh8D1IxAg8qistP0KAQA/edit?usp=sharing
+ Steve wants the sidebar "configuration menu" icon gone: "it's useless 
confusing, thus user unfriendly,
  creates frustration and clutters the UI."
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91824
 
* Changing the gradient toolbars to single color on Mac (Jay)
 
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92359
  https://vm150.documentfoundation.org/attachment.cgi?id=116924
+ hard to do it without a physical access to a mac :-( (Kendy)
+ https://imgur.com/U8Gfqi6,lXXO7sb,P9bGLkv (steve)
+ Office 2016 - 
http://core0.staticworld.net/images/article/2015/03/excel-10057170

[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2015-06-24

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Andreas, Heiko, Jay, Kendy, Marek, Mattias
 
* Completed Action Items:
 
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90790 - fixed (Kendy)

* UI changes integrated the last week:
 
+ New Sifr icons (Matthias)
+ Additional tweaks to the standard, draw and text toolbars (Jay)
+ Breeze icon tweaks and new icons (Andreas)
+ New Galaxy icons (Andreas)
+ Fix cropped buttons in the start center (Kendy)
+ Fix missing Breeze icons in the icons*.zip (Kendy)
+ .ui files improvements (Adolfo)
+ lint-ui.py improvements (Rosemary)
+ Equalize width and height for impress/draw (Caolán)
+ http://caolanm.blogspot.com/2015/06/equalize-widthheight.html
 
* LibreOffice Conference
 
+ September 23-25, 2015, Aarhus, Denmark
+ http://conference.libreoffice.org/2015/call-for-papers/
+ would be great to have you all there :-) - please submit a paper!
 
* Icon Updates / Issues (Jay)
 
+ LibreLogo icons are not theme-able (Jay)
+ it's an integrated extension, not theme-able from principle :-( 
(Kendy)
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92287
+ would need change in how the extensions can get the icons (Kendy)
 
+ Tango (Alex/Adolfo/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OErlXIDDGM7V1mOGW8oSCLuhqw5fulT1XhkTik1u2UY/edit?usp=sharing
 
+ Sifr (Papamatti/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/15ZpVaTxg7TAFYhOyQUP3mp-cVtKA1vP5uZAT38t-taA/edit?usp=sharing
+ Papamatti has pushed new icons (Jay)
 
+ Breeze (Andreas/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dpMFgmkQy4BsyRIKH97ZLPTU6NdvXIYk3Yossj6sSQM/edit?usp=sharing
+ Andreas has pushed some changes (Jay)

+ Breeze Dark (Andreas)
+ still in Kendy's action items... :-) (Jay)
 
+ Extra-Large (32x32) Icons for large resolutions
+ Status - 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mPqD2gGsMkfVCI6ByUd2XYX1NJm26hcGjRVe6gcCSEU/edit?usp=sharing
 
* Templates Competition (Jay)
 
+ Wiki page setup
  
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Templates_for_LibreOffice_5.0
+ templates competion out, announced last Thursday
+ not much submissions yet
+ will do something by himself in the meantime (Jay)
+ some dark theme + other basic ones (Jay)
 
* LibreOffice 5.0 splash + start center + about box new theme (Kendy)
 
+ vote is ongoing in the Visual Identity group
+ results will be tomorrow, then finalized for the next RC
+ implementation of the new colors for the start center ongoing (Kendy)
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90452#c45
 
* UI Guidelines (Heiko)
 
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hSYOFoG6jnj2G0zWDbUYkrGZoj7YCSI9j3onkTZ65bU/edit
 
+ context menus discussed, happy with the results
+ sidebar will be next
 
+ context menu now in the wiki
+ next steps: sidebar, dialogs
 
* Next Friday's design session (Jay)
 
+ Friday session this week
+ sidebar is next
+ 1:00pm CEST / 11:00 UTC
 
+ List of possible future topics
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XiJauFHrSmM5LsaV0AlglhfUh8D1IxAg8qistP0KAQA/edit?usp=sharing
+ Steve wants the sidebar "configuration menu" icon gone: "it's useless 
confusing, thus user unfriendly,
  creates frustration and clutters the UI."
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91824
 
* Calc default styles
 
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90937
+ 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bt2Gr0JslOLL86xb-bCl76mji5AhHT_8VI-5Wp5Qyq0/edit?usp=sharing
+ agreed the new default: H217:H238 in the spreadsheet
+ cleaned version: 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90937#c5
+ Moggi busy now, for now will add him to the CC: of the bug
 
+ code for the hard-coded styles is here:
+ 
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/tree/sc/source/core/data/stlpool.cxx#n275
 
* Improving the Use of Styles in Writer (Jay)
 
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1onHj7GLNs-x9jMJBRsYaRLv_xsN3UJhP13P690L6ci8/edit?usp=sharing
+ many have contributed already, add your thoughts too (Jay)
+ main idea: encourage more people to use styles (Jay)
+ currently too hard to use, make it easier (Jay)
+ lots of missing visual clues missing for the paragraph vs. character 
style, and then
  it looks like Clear Direct Formatting does not work, etc. (Jay)
+ needs to be improved so that the styles are more used by more people (Jay)
+ everybody welcome to contribute! (Jay)
 
* Formula bar function wizard button should open the functions pane of sidebar 
(Jay)
 
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92219
+

[libreoffice-design] Minutes of the Design Hangout: 2015-06-17

[Jan Holesovsky]

* Present: Heiko, Jay, Mattias, Kendy
 
* UI changes integrated the last week:
 
+ Impress menubar reorganized (Jay)
+ Added outline buttons to impress sidebar (Maxim)
+ Adapted the numbering popup to more than 8 items (Maxim)
+ Enabled gtk3 backend by default (Caolán, Miklos)
+ Fixed icon links (Jay)
+ More Background / Highlighting fixes (Tamas)
+ .ui improvements (Maxim)
+ More sifr icons (Matthias)
+ More breeze icons (Andreas)
+ TreeView in the Expert configuration dialog (Mihály)
 
* Sifr icon patches that need to be cherry picked for 5.0 (Jay)
 
+ https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/16115/
  https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/16120/
  https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/16128/
+ Adolfo pushed
+ https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/16261/
  https://gerrit.libreoffice.org/#/c/16254/
+ pushed by Adolfo too
 
* Important icons were removed by Andrew like lc_styleupdatebyexample.png (Jay)

+ 
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/commit/?id=18f41dfaf19d656d290c47d196ef2702e169a522
+ restored lc_styleupdatebyexample.png
+ will check with Andrew what was the criteria for removal (Jay)
 
* Problems with Icons (Jay)
 
   + MAB - links.txt
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90790
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92105
   + is it possible to do build-time?  Like, can one icon point to one icon in 
one theme,
 but to other in another theme  (Kendy)
   + turns out there is some support for more links.txt's in the code, so a 
bug,
 not a missing functionality (Kendy)
AI + fix it... (Kendy)
 
* Icon Updates / Issues (Jay)
 
+ if an icon is missing, Jay can add the needed XML snippet (Andreas/Jay)
 
+ Tango (Alex/Adolfo/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OErlXIDDGM7V1mOGW8oSCLuhqw5fulT1XhkTik1u2UY/edit?usp=sharing
 
+ Sifr (Papamatti/Jay)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/15ZpVaTxg7TAFYhOyQUP3mp-cVtKA1vP5uZAT38t-taA/edit?usp=sharing
+ Papamatti has pushed new icons (Jay)
 
+ Breeze (Andreas/Jay)
+ nearly finished with icons (Andreas)
+ Latest status of updates available here (Jay)
  
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dpMFgmkQy4BsyRIKH97ZLPTU6NdvXIYk3Yossj6sSQM/edit?usp=sharing
 
+ Extra-Large (32x32) Icons for large resolutions
+ Status - 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mPqD2gGsMkfVCI6ByUd2XYX1NJm26hcGjRVe6gcCSEU/edit?usp=sharing
 
+ UI-freeze for 5.0.0 this week (cloph)
+ last chance to change default icon theme for other OS/decide not to 
change it
 
* Templates Competition (Jay)
 
+ Wiki page setup
  
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Templates_for_LibreOffice_5.0
+ need to sync with Italo, poked him (Jay)
 
* Next Friday's design session (Jay)
 
+ Friday session this week
+ context menus, sidebars?  Menus?
+ 1:00pm CEST / 11:00 UTC
 
+ List of possible future topics
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XiJauFHrSmM5LsaV0AlglhfUh8D1IxAg8qistP0KAQA/edit?usp=sharing
+ Steve wants the sidebar "configuration menu" icon gone: "it's useless 
confusing, thus user unfriendly,
  creates frustration and clutters the UI."
  https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91824
 
* UI Guidelines (Heiko)
 
+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hSYOFoG6jnj2G0zWDbUYkrGZoj7YCSI9j3onkTZ65bU/edit
 
+ content now in the wiki
+ next steps: context menu, sidebar, dialogs
 
* Calc default styles
 
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=90937
+ 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bt2Gr0JslOLL86xb-bCl76mji5AhHT_8VI-5Wp5Qyq0/edit?usp=sharing
+ agreed the new default: H217:H238 in the spreadsheet
+ when done, will send the colors / style to Jay/Moggi (Mattias)
 
+ code for this is here:
+ 
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/libreoffice/core/tree/sc/source/core/data/stlpool.cxx#n275

+ moggi willing to spend some hacking on using an actual template file 
instead of the hardcoded stuff (Jay)

* Improving the Use of Styles in Writer (Jay)

+ 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1onHj7GLNs-x9jMJBRsYaRLv_xsN3UJhP13P690L6ci8/edit?usp=sharing




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