RE: [libreoffice-design] libre office vs numbers
Hi Roland, sure it's good to have some mockups as a discussion guide, but best would be if you could work directly on the layout files. They are created with Glade<https://glade.gnome.org/>. If you need help with that, please come to the #libreoffice-design IRC channel. Please keep in mind that some parts of the sidebar's properties section are shared between apps (Writer, Impress, Draw, Calc). Also we prefer not to completely redesign the sidebar (and UI in general), but gradually improve it. Thanks Samuel From: Roland Spitzlinger [mailto:r.spitzlin...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, December 04, 2015 2:54 PM To: Samuel Mehrbrodt <samuel.mehrbr...@cib.de> Cc: design@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] libre office vs numbers Hi Samuel, I love to get my hands dirty. Just give me some time and I'll send you some mockups. Obviously I believe the numbers sidebar is really well crafted, meaning, I will base my work on that. If that's too close to the apple UI, please let me know. Apart from that I tend to follow the excellent elementary HIG<http://elementary.io/docs/human-interface-guidelines/>. Best wishes, Roland Am 04.12.2015 um 14:37 schrieb Samuel Mehrbrodt <samuel.mehrbr...@cib.de<mailto:samuel.mehrbr...@cib.de>>: Hi Roland, thanks for the screenshots. Is there a chance you could get your hands dirty and try to improve the sidebar in calc yourself? We could lend you a hand if you like. Or do you have specific suggestions, what should be improved? If you do not plan to work on things yourself, it would most likely be picked up by someone if you break your suggestions down into small, concrete enhancement suggestions filed in bugzilla. Thanks a lot Samuel Von: Roland Spitzlinger <r.spitzlin...@gmail.com<mailto:r.spitzlin...@gmail.com>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. November 2015 16:05 An: Samuel Mehrbrodt Cc: design@global.libreoffice.org<mailto:design@global.libreoffice.org> Betreff: Re: [libreoffice-design] libre office vs numbers Hi Samuel, thanx for your reply. I put the screenshots in the following folder: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5CZFCSGix1ebmx2VlRSZWZkLXM=sharing Please also note the links to the individual screenshots below. best wishes, roland Am 26.11.2015 um 15:46 schrieb Samuel Mehrbrodt <samuel.mehrbr...@cib.de<mailto:samuel.mehrbr...@cib.de>>: Hi Roland, many thanks for your suggestions, they are good points. Unfortunately this mailing list has stripped off your attachments - could you please upload them somewhere else and post links to them? Thanks Samuel Von: Roland Spitzlinger <r.spitzlin...@gmail.com<mailto:r.spitzlin...@gmail.com>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. November 2015 23:37 An: design@global.libreoffice.org<mailto:design@global.libreoffice.org> Betreff: [libreoffice-design] libre office vs numbers hello everyone, first of all thanx for your great effort! I have been using libre office for many years and it has improved a lot since then. I have been working on user interfaces in the past and I just thought you might appreciate a few thoughts that could potentially help improve the libre office UI. In fact, I have done a little comparison of libre office calc and numbers (osx). Based on that, here are a few suggestions: divide options into managable groups. do not show all options at the same time. instead organize them in sections work with tabs avoid strong color contrasts. the human eye isn't made for it. avoid black on white background, use grey shades instead (dark grey on light grey is highly recommended) avoid bold text in strong colors such as black and red avoid colors in general, unless used to highlight something. this helps the user to focus on the important matters. only use colors to highlight the current state of a text/cell (e.g. the checkbox "Tausendertrennzeichen" should be in color if it is active for the marked cell, otherwise it should be grey) do use colors for color options, obviously. combine related buttons in groups (see e.g. the button group "Ausrichtung") this way the UI is less clustered and easier to comprehend. hide unnecessary design elements. as we all know, good design is as little design as possible. only show indicators when they are actually needed (see the two screenshots with color option below) avoid additional external formating menus with ever more options. instead work with tabs and control buttons within the sidebar framework (see last screenshot below) avoid scrollbars if they seem necessary, then this is a sign that there is already too much information if a scrollbar is needed, hide it until the user actually starts scrolling hope this is of any help. If you have any questions go ahaid. In any case, thanx again for your effort! best wishes, roland comparison of formating panels
Re: [libreoffice-design] libre office vs numbers
Hi Samuel, I love to get my hands dirty. Just give me some time and I’ll send you some mockups. Obviously I believe the numbers sidebar is really well crafted, meaning, I will base my work on that. If that's too close to the apple UI, please let me know. Apart from that I tend to follow the excellent elementary HIG. Best wishes, Roland Am 04.12.2015 um 14:37 schrieb Samuel Mehrbrodt <samuel.mehrbr...@cib.de>: > Hi Roland, > > thanks for the screenshots. > Is there a chance you could get your hands dirty and try to improve the > sidebar in calc yourself? We could lend you a hand if you like. > > Or do you have specific suggestions, what should be improved? If you do not > plan to work on things yourself, it would most likely be picked up by someone > if you break your suggestions down into small, concrete enhancement > suggestions filed in bugzilla. > > Thanks a lot > Samuel > > Von: Roland Spitzlinger <r.spitzlin...@gmail.com> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. November 2015 16:05 > An: Samuel Mehrbrodt > Cc: design@global.libreoffice.org > Betreff: Re: [libreoffice-design] libre office vs numbers > > Hi Samuel, > > thanx for your reply. > I put the screenshots in the following folder: > https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5CZFCSGix1ebmx2VlRSZWZkLXM=sharing > > Please also note the links to the individual screenshots below. > > best wishes, > roland > > Am 26.11.2015 um 15:46 schrieb Samuel Mehrbrodt <samuel.mehrbr...@cib.de>: > >> Hi Roland, >> >> many thanks for your suggestions, they are good points. >> >> Unfortunately this mailing list has stripped off your attachments - could >> you please upload them somewhere else and post links to them? >> >> Thanks >> Samuel >> ____________ >> Von: Roland Spitzlinger <r.spitzlin...@gmail.com> >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. November 2015 23:37 >> An: design@global.libreoffice.org >> Betreff: [libreoffice-design] libre office vs numbers >> >> hello everyone, >> >> first of all thanx for your great effort! >> I have been using libre office for many years and it has improved a lot >> since then. >> >> I have been working on user interfaces in the past and I just thought you >> might appreciate a few thoughts that could potentially help improve the >> libre office UI. In fact, I have done a little comparison of libre office >> calc and numbers (osx). Based on that, here are a few suggestions: >> >> divide options into managable groups. do not show all options at the same >> time. >> instead organize them in sections >> work with tabs >> avoid strong color contrasts. the human eye isn’t made for it. >> avoid black on white background, use grey shades instead (dark grey on light >> grey is highly recommended) >> avoid bold text in strong colors such as black and red >> avoid colors in general, unless used to highlight something. this helps the >> user to focus on the important matters. >> only use colors to highlight the current state of a text/cell (e.g. the >> checkbox „Tausendertrennzeichen“ should be in color if it is active for the >> marked cell, otherwise it should be grey) >> do use colors for color options, obviously. >> combine related buttons in groups (see e.g. the button group „Ausrichtung“) >> this way the UI is less clustered and easier to comprehend. >> hide unnecessary design elements. as we all know, good design is as little >> design as possible. >> only show indicators when they are actually needed (see the two screenshots >> with color option below) >> avoid additional external formating menus with ever more options. instead >> work with tabs and control buttons within the sidebar framework (see last >> screenshot below) >> avoid scrollbars >> if they seem necessary, then this is a sign that there is already too much >> information >> if a scrollbar is needed, hide it until the user actually starts scrolling >> >> hope this is of any help. If you have any questions go ahaid. >> >> In any case, thanx again for your effort! >> >> best wishes, >> roland >> >> >> comparison of formating panels: >> numbers vs. libre office >> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5CZFCSGix1eMkNnNV9qMUtEcW8 >> >> >> >> While libre office shows all options in one place, numbers breakes them down >> into logical and more comprenhensible sections. >> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5CZFCSGix1eczNSSk8yUFRfeUk &
Re: [libreoffice-design] libre office vs numbers
Hi Roland, thanks for the screenshots. Is there a chance you could get your hands dirty and try to improve the sidebar in calc yourself? We could lend you a hand if you like. Or do you have specific suggestions, what should be improved? If you do not plan to work on things yourself, it would most likely be picked up by someone if you break your suggestions down into small, concrete enhancement suggestions filed in bugzilla. Thanks a lot Samuel Von: Roland Spitzlinger <r.spitzlin...@gmail.com> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. November 2015 16:05 An: Samuel Mehrbrodt Cc: design@global.libreoffice.org Betreff: Re: [libreoffice-design] libre office vs numbers Hi Samuel, thanx for your reply. I put the screenshots in the following folder: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5CZFCSGix1ebmx2VlRSZWZkLXM=sharing Please also note the links to the individual screenshots below. best wishes, roland Am 26.11.2015 um 15:46 schrieb Samuel Mehrbrodt <samuel.mehrbr...@cib.de>: > Hi Roland, > > many thanks for your suggestions, they are good points. > > Unfortunately this mailing list has stripped off your attachments - could you > please upload them somewhere else and post links to them? > > Thanks > Samuel > > Von: Roland Spitzlinger <r.spitzlin...@gmail.com> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. November 2015 23:37 > An: design@global.libreoffice.org > Betreff: [libreoffice-design] libre office vs numbers > > hello everyone, > > first of all thanx for your great effort! > I have been using libre office for many years and it has improved a lot since > then. > > I have been working on user interfaces in the past and I just thought you > might appreciate a few thoughts that could potentially help improve the libre > office UI. In fact, I have done a little comparison of libre office calc and > numbers (osx). Based on that, here are a few suggestions: > > divide options into managable groups. do not show all options at the same > time. > instead organize them in sections > work with tabs > avoid strong color contrasts. the human eye isn’t made for it. > avoid black on white background, use grey shades instead (dark grey on light > grey is highly recommended) > avoid bold text in strong colors such as black and red > avoid colors in general, unless used to highlight something. this helps the > user to focus on the important matters. > only use colors to highlight the current state of a text/cell (e.g. the > checkbox „Tausendertrennzeichen“ should be in color if it is active for the > marked cell, otherwise it should be grey) > do use colors for color options, obviously. > combine related buttons in groups (see e.g. the button group „Ausrichtung“) > this way the UI is less clustered and easier to comprehend. > hide unnecessary design elements. as we all know, good design is as little > design as possible. > only show indicators when they are actually needed (see the two screenshots > with color option below) > avoid additional external formating menus with ever more options. instead > work with tabs and control buttons within the sidebar framework (see last > screenshot below) > avoid scrollbars > if they seem necessary, then this is a sign that there is already too much > information > if a scrollbar is needed, hide it until the user actually starts scrolling > > hope this is of any help. If you have any questions go ahaid. > > In any case, thanx again for your effort! > > best wishes, > roland > > > comparison of formating panels: > numbers vs. libre office > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5CZFCSGix1eMkNnNV9qMUtEcW8 > > > > While libre office shows all options in one place, numbers breakes them down > into logical and more comprenhensible sections. > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5CZFCSGix1eczNSSk8yUFRfeUk https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5CZFCSGix1eR0Fyck9IZTFPS1U https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5CZFCSGix1eWG9OUUpnRkNWbnM https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5CZFCSGix1eWTB2OGtMUi1ZQ28 > > > color option: > mouse over color option: > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5CZFCSGix1ebnU4M05CZDI5c1E additional options: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5CZFCSGix1eUnRyM3R5Z0ZYZ0E > > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? ht
Re: [libreoffice-design] libre office vs numbers
Libre Office has design guidelines and you should stick to following those ones instead of basing your contributions in design guidelines from other software. On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 1:53 PM, Roland Spitzlinger <r.spitzlin...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Samuel, > > I love to get my hands dirty. Just give me some time and I’ll send you > some mockups. Obviously I believe the numbers sidebar is really well > crafted, meaning, I will base my work on that. If that's too close to the > apple UI, please let me know. > Apart from that I tend to follow the excellent elementary HIG. > > Best wishes, > Roland > > Am 04.12.2015 um 14:37 schrieb Samuel Mehrbrodt <samuel.mehrbr...@cib.de>: > > > Hi Roland, > > > > thanks for the screenshots. > > Is there a chance you could get your hands dirty and try to improve the > sidebar in calc yourself? We could lend you a hand if you like. > > > > Or do you have specific suggestions, what should be improved? If you do > not plan to work on things yourself, it would most likely be picked up by > someone if you break your suggestions down into small, concrete enhancement > suggestions filed in bugzilla. > > > > Thanks a lot > > Samuel > > > > Von: Roland Spitzlinger <r.spitzlin...@gmail.com> > > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. November 2015 16:05 > > An: Samuel Mehrbrodt > > Cc: design@global.libreoffice.org > > Betreff: Re: [libreoffice-design] libre office vs numbers > > > > Hi Samuel, > > > > thanx for your reply. > > I put the screenshots in the following folder: > > > https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5CZFCSGix1ebmx2VlRSZWZkLXM=sharing > > > > Please also note the links to the individual screenshots below. > > > > best wishes, > > roland > > > > Am 26.11.2015 um 15:46 schrieb Samuel Mehrbrodt <samuel.mehrbr...@cib.de > >: > > > >> Hi Roland, > >> > >> many thanks for your suggestions, they are good points. > >> > >> Unfortunately this mailing list has stripped off your attachments - > could you please upload them somewhere else and post links to them? > >> > >> Thanks > >> Samuel > >> > >> Von: Roland Spitzlinger <r.spitzlin...@gmail.com> > >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. November 2015 23:37 > >> An: design@global.libreoffice.org > >> Betreff: [libreoffice-design] libre office vs numbers > >> > >> hello everyone, > >> > >> first of all thanx for your great effort! > >> I have been using libre office for many years and it has improved a lot > since then. > >> > >> I have been working on user interfaces in the past and I just thought > you might appreciate a few thoughts that could potentially help improve the > libre office UI. In fact, I have done a little comparison of libre office > calc and numbers (osx). Based on that, here are a few suggestions: > >> > >> divide options into managable groups. do not show all options at the > same time. > >> instead organize them in sections > >> work with tabs > >> avoid strong color contrasts. the human eye isn’t made for it. > >> avoid black on white background, use grey shades instead (dark grey on > light grey is highly recommended) > >> avoid bold text in strong colors such as black and red > >> avoid colors in general, unless used to highlight something. this helps > the user to focus on the important matters. > >> only use colors to highlight the current state of a text/cell (e.g. the > checkbox „Tausendertrennzeichen“ should be in color if it is active for the > marked cell, otherwise it should be grey) > >> do use colors for color options, obviously. > >> combine related buttons in groups (see e.g. the button group > „Ausrichtung“) this way the UI is less clustered and easier to comprehend. > >> hide unnecessary design elements. as we all know, good design is as > little design as possible. > >> only show indicators when they are actually needed (see the two > screenshots with color option below) > >> avoid additional external formating menus with ever more options. > instead work with tabs and control buttons within the sidebar framework > (see last screenshot below) > >> avoid scrollbars > >> if they seem necessary, then this is a sign that there is already too > much information > >> if a scrollbar is needed, hide it until the user actually starts > scrolling > >> > >> hope this is of any
Re: [libreoffice-design] libre office vs numbers
Hi Samuel, thanx for your reply. I put the screenshots in the following folder: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5CZFCSGix1ebmx2VlRSZWZkLXM=sharing Please also note the links to the individual screenshots below. best wishes, roland Am 26.11.2015 um 15:46 schrieb Samuel Mehrbrodt <samuel.mehrbr...@cib.de>: > Hi Roland, > > many thanks for your suggestions, they are good points. > > Unfortunately this mailing list has stripped off your attachments - could you > please upload them somewhere else and post links to them? > > Thanks > Samuel > > Von: Roland Spitzlinger <r.spitzlin...@gmail.com> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 25. November 2015 23:37 > An: design@global.libreoffice.org > Betreff: [libreoffice-design] libre office vs numbers > > hello everyone, > > first of all thanx for your great effort! > I have been using libre office for many years and it has improved a lot since > then. > > I have been working on user interfaces in the past and I just thought you > might appreciate a few thoughts that could potentially help improve the libre > office UI. In fact, I have done a little comparison of libre office calc and > numbers (osx). Based on that, here are a few suggestions: > > divide options into managable groups. do not show all options at the same > time. > instead organize them in sections > work with tabs > avoid strong color contrasts. the human eye isn’t made for it. > avoid black on white background, use grey shades instead (dark grey on light > grey is highly recommended) > avoid bold text in strong colors such as black and red > avoid colors in general, unless used to highlight something. this helps the > user to focus on the important matters. > only use colors to highlight the current state of a text/cell (e.g. the > checkbox „Tausendertrennzeichen“ should be in color if it is active for the > marked cell, otherwise it should be grey) > do use colors for color options, obviously. > combine related buttons in groups (see e.g. the button group „Ausrichtung“) > this way the UI is less clustered and easier to comprehend. > hide unnecessary design elements. as we all know, good design is as little > design as possible. > only show indicators when they are actually needed (see the two screenshots > with color option below) > avoid additional external formating menus with ever more options. instead > work with tabs and control buttons within the sidebar framework (see last > screenshot below) > avoid scrollbars > if they seem necessary, then this is a sign that there is already too much > information > if a scrollbar is needed, hide it until the user actually starts scrolling > > hope this is of any help. If you have any questions go ahaid. > > In any case, thanx again for your effort! > > best wishes, > roland > > > comparison of formating panels: > numbers vs. libre office > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5CZFCSGix1eMkNnNV9qMUtEcW8 > > > > While libre office shows all options in one place, numbers breakes them down > into logical and more comprenhensible sections. > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5CZFCSGix1eczNSSk8yUFRfeUk https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5CZFCSGix1eR0Fyck9IZTFPS1U https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5CZFCSGix1eWG9OUUpnRkNWbnM https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5CZFCSGix1eWTB2OGtMUi1ZQ28 > > > color option: > mouse over color option: > https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5CZFCSGix1ebnU4M05CZDI5c1E additional options: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5CZFCSGix1eUnRyM3R5Z0ZYZ0E > > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] libre office vs numbers
hello everyone, first of all thanx for your great effort! I have been using libre office for many years and it has improved a lot since then. I have been working on user interfaces in the past and I just thought you might appreciate a few thoughts that could potentially help improve the libre office UI. In fact, I have done a little comparison of libre office calc and numbers (osx). Based on that, here are a few suggestions: divide options into managable groups. do not show all options at the same time. instead organize them in sections work with tabs avoid strong color contrasts. the human eye isn’t made for it. avoid black on white background, use grey shades instead (dark grey on light grey is highly recommended) avoid bold text in strong colors such as black and red avoid colors in general, unless used to highlight something. this helps the user to focus on the important matters. only use colors to highlight the current state of a text/cell (e.g. the checkbox „Tausendertrennzeichen“ should be in color if it is active for the marked cell, otherwise it should be grey) do use colors for color options, obviously. combine related buttons in groups (see e.g. the button group „Ausrichtung“) this way the UI is less clustered and easier to comprehend. hide unnecessary design elements. as we all know, good design is as little design as possible. only show indicators when they are actually needed (see the two screenshots with color option below) avoid additional external formating menus with ever more options. instead work with tabs and control buttons within the sidebar framework (see last screenshot below) avoid scrollbars if they seem necessary, then this is a sign that there is already too much information if a scrollbar is needed, hide it until the user actually starts scrolling hope this is of any help. If you have any questions go ahaid. In any case, thanx again for your effort! best wishes, roland comparison of formating panels: numbers vs. libre office While libre office shows all options in one place, numbers breakes them down into logical and more comprenhensible sections. color option: mouse over color option: -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
