Re: [Design] shirt colors

[Michel, Stephen J.]

I don't think we need two light designs that are both cool, so I think we 
should NOT offer Heather Gray with blue ink (cool). Cool Blue looks really good 
and is our only non-grayscale option, so I think we should offer it. If 
necessary we can increase the price of Cool Blue for ladies, or slightly 
increase the price of all the shirts to cover the increased cost. I think we 
should offer a warm option, which makes Warm Gray the only option.

Therefore, I propose we offer three options:

1. (Cool) White with blue ink
2. Cool Blue with white ink
3. Warm Gray with white ink

Further, I propose we should NOT link to the other colors.

Is everyone good with this decision and ready to move on?
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Re: [Design] shirt colors

[Diana Connolly]

I think that sounds great.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 1:01 AM, Michel, Stephen J.  wrote:

> I don't think we need two light designs that are both cool, so I think we
> should NOT offer Heather Gray with blue ink (cool). Cool Blue looks really
> good and is our only non-grayscale option, so I think we should offer it.
> If necessary we can increase the price of Cool Blue for ladies, or slightly
> increase the price of all the shirts to cover the increased cost. I think
> we should offer a warm option, which makes Warm Gray the only option.
>
> Therefore, I propose we offer three options:
>
> 1. (Cool) White with blue ink
> 2. Cool Blue with white ink
> 3. Warm Gray with white ink
>
> Further, I propose we should NOT link to the other colors.
>
> Is everyone good with this decision and ready to move on?
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>
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Re: [Design] shirt colors

[Bryan Richter]

There seems to have been a major foulup in communication about shirt
colors.

Diana chose shirt colors and got consensus on those colors. Some of
the colors she chose are on backorder for ladies's sizes, but they're
still available. Then, those colors were scrapped entirely and
different ones were added to the newly-created /merchandise page. That
page also unhelpfully links to the entire available palette, which is
also contrary to the original plan (paradox of choice, dilution of
brand).

There were a few emails in this thread that were, unfortunately, too
long and unfocused for me to have time to read. Was it one of those
that discussed these changes?

Are we all satisfied with the current state of affairs?

I basically didn't want to think about this anymore, except now I'm
choosing a shirt color for myself and don't feel comfortable choosing
something that very few other people will ever wear.

On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 11:18:21AM +, William Hale (Salt) wrote:
> Would someone start a new thread with mock-ups of the final options?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 11:20:33 -0800
> Diana Connolly  wrote:
> 
> > Quite simply, all we need now is the final graphics in a form I can
> > hand off to Bluemill, and a choice of sizes and colors for at least
> > 24 shirts. Remember, shirt color changes cost nothing.
> > 
> > If people would like to start sending me their choices, I will
> > compile a list.
> > 
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Re: [Design] shirt colors

[Michel, Stephen J.]

Proposal:

1. Pick two colors, and two colors only.
2. Both colors must be available in both Mens and Womens.
3. One must be warm, and one must be cool.
4. One must be dark, one must be light.

In short, offer Cool Blue and Warm Grey colors (if I haven't gotten all the 
constraints mixed up -- can someone confirm that these two colors fit my 4 
above constraints?), and be done with it. We've spent far too much effort on 
this already, IMO.

From: Design [design-boun...@lists.snowdrift.coop] on behalf of Bryan Richter 
[b...@chreekat.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 14:26
To: design@lists.snowdrift.coop
Subject: Re: [Design] shirt colors

There seems to have been a major foulup in communication about shirt
colors.

Diana chose shirt colors and got consensus on those colors. Some of
the colors she chose are on backorder for ladies's sizes, but they're
still available. Then, those colors were scrapped entirely and
different ones were added to the newly-created /merchandise page. That
page also unhelpfully links to the entire available palette, which is
also contrary to the original plan (paradox of choice, dilution of
brand).

There were a few emails in this thread that were, unfortunately, too
long and unfocused for me to have time to read. Was it one of those
that discussed these changes?

Are we all satisfied with the current state of affairs?

I basically didn't want to think about this anymore, except now I'm
choosing a shirt color for myself and don't feel comfortable choosing
something that very few other people will ever wear.

On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 11:18:21AM +, William Hale (Salt) wrote:
> Would someone start a new thread with mock-ups of the final options?
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 11:20:33 -0800
> Diana Connolly <diana.conno...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Quite simply, all we need now is the final graphics in a form I can
> > hand off to Bluemill, and a choice of sizes and colors for at least
> > 24 shirts. Remember, shirt color changes cost nothing.
> >
> > If people would like to start sending me their choices, I will
> > compile a list.
> >
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Re: [Design] shirt colors

[Diana Connolly]

Jeez, I'm realizing I referred to a "light blue" a couple of emails back,
which should have been "cool blue". Sorry for the confusion.

So much for a *final* email. Heh.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 12:00 PM, Diana Connolly 
wrote:

> some clarification: by "not available" I mean not in stock in Portland,
> but can be ordered from manufacturer, which incurs a small fee, and I've
> got an email out to find out exactly what that fee is.
>
> Also for clarification, "cool blue" is what you guys simply call "dark" on
> the merch page.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Diana Connolly 
> wrote:
>
>> Here is my final recommendation:
>>
>> Have 4 colors available:
>>
>> Light: White and Heather grey with blue ink
>> Dark: Cool Blue and Warm Grey with white ink
>>
>> - You already have 4 shirts showing on the website, keep that number the
>> same, but add the new colors and make it clear all options are available
>> for both men and women.
>>
>> - Remove the option for additional color choices for simplification. You
>> can always add it later.
>>
>> Final note: the light blue is the only one not available for women, but
>> it can be ordered for a small additional charge; I don't think it will add
>> much or change the time requirement. I wish Light Grey were available, but
>> it is not for women. If you look at all the options, they are different for
>> men and women.
>>
>> Diana
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Diana Connolly > > wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, Mock up the warm grey.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 11:40 AM, Aaron Wolf 
>>> wrote:
>>>


 On 01/05/2016 11:26 AM, Bryan Richter wrote:
 > There seems to have been a major foulup in communication about shirt
 > colors.
 >
 > Diana chose shirt colors and got consensus on those colors. Some of
 > the colors she chose are on backorder for ladies's sizes, but they're
 > still available. Then, those colors were scrapped entirely and
 > different ones were added to the newly-created /merchandise page. That
 > page also unhelpfully links to the entire available palette, which is
 > also contrary to the original plan (paradox of choice, dilution of
 > brand).
 >

 You're somewhat mistaken. Only the cool blue women's is back-ordered.

 Diana's light-color (Light Gray) does not EXIST in women's.
 The both-sex light colors are white and *maybe* heather-gray if that
 works enough, but we need to print and see if it turns out light enough.

 Diana said she thought that Cool Blue was GOOD and we should use it
 because it's nice *and* matches the site.

 The whole summary is: there are TWO good dark shirts Diana suggested;
 but the light shirt situation is tough (reasons… …), and yet that's the
 more conservative basic design :P

 So, Robert made his mockup with that situation, and we asked about
 whether Warm Gray should be added to the mockup, but nobody replied on
 that.

 I don't like the "more choices" per se, and that's why it was asked
 about on the list, and I asked Diana also, but she didn't object or
 directly address that (but did tell me that *she* would like Warm Gray).

 > There were a few emails in this thread that were, unfortunately, too
 > long and unfocused for me to have time to read. Was it one of those
 > that discussed these changes?
 >

 Okay, sorry about the length.

 > Are we all satisfied with the current state of affairs?
 >

 Well, Diana told me she doesn't mind the situation, but I don't know if
 she would think that showing Warm Gray would be better or worse. I'd
 like that answered potentially.

 > I basically didn't want to think about this anymore, except now I'm
 > choosing a shirt color for myself and don't feel comfortable choosing
 > something that very few other people will ever wear.
 >

 I don't think Warm Gray is too weird, and I was going to get an extra
 for myself in that color. This is a test run sort of, and we can
 re-order later.

 I'd like a decision from Diana about whether we should emphasize /
 mockup the Warm Gray.

 > On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 11:18:21AM +, William Hale (Salt) wrote:
 >> Would someone start a new thread with mock-ups of the final options?
 >>
 >> Thanks!
 >>
 >> On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 11:20:33 -0800
 >> Diana Connolly  wrote:
 >>
 >>> Quite simply, all we need now is the final graphics in a form I can
 >>> hand off to Bluemill, and a choice of sizes and colors for at least
 >>> 24 shirts. Remember, shirt color changes cost nothing.
 >>>
 >>> If people would like to start sending me their choices, I will
 >>> compile a list.
 >>>
 >> 

Re: [Design] shirt colors

[Aaron Wolf]

Hi Stephen,

Your proposal makes chooses Cool Blue and Warm Gray, and actually, those
two would probably be the best colors, but I don't think Warm Gray will
work with the light design… Basically, everything is better with dark
shirts.

There's actually no need per se for light shirt to be light, it's just
that the cleaner conservative design with the shovel image works best on
a light shirt.

I agree this is too much time and is frustrating. It would take a couple
more paragraphs for me to even discuss the options now.

QUESTION: Should we add the Warm Gray to the mockups specifically? Try
it with the light design?

On 01/05/2016 11:35 AM, Michel, Stephen J. wrote:
> Proposal:
> 
> 1. Pick two colors, and two colors only.
> 2. Both colors must be available in both Mens and Womens.
> 3. One must be warm, and one must be cool.
> 4. One must be dark, one must be light.
> 
> In short, offer Cool Blue and Warm Grey colors (if I haven't gotten all the 
> constraints mixed up -- can someone confirm that these two colors fit my 4 
> above constraints?), and be done with it. We've spent far too much effort on 
> this already, IMO.
> 
> From: Design [design-boun...@lists.snowdrift.coop] on behalf of Bryan Richter 
> [b...@chreekat.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 14:26
> To: design@lists.snowdrift.coop
> Subject: Re: [Design] shirt colors
> 
> There seems to have been a major foulup in communication about shirt
> colors.
> 
> Diana chose shirt colors and got consensus on those colors. Some of
> the colors she chose are on backorder for ladies's sizes, but they're
> still available. Then, those colors were scrapped entirely and
> different ones were added to the newly-created /merchandise page. That
> page also unhelpfully links to the entire available palette, which is
> also contrary to the original plan (paradox of choice, dilution of
> brand).
> 
> There were a few emails in this thread that were, unfortunately, too
> long and unfocused for me to have time to read. Was it one of those
> that discussed these changes?
> 
> Are we all satisfied with the current state of affairs?
> 
> I basically didn't want to think about this anymore, except now I'm
> choosing a shirt color for myself and don't feel comfortable choosing
> something that very few other people will ever wear.
> 
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 11:18:21AM +, William Hale (Salt) wrote:
>> Would someone start a new thread with mock-ups of the final options?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 11:20:33 -0800
>> Diana Connolly <diana.conno...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Quite simply, all we need now is the final graphics in a form I can
>>> hand off to Bluemill, and a choice of sizes and colors for at least
>>> 24 shirts. Remember, shirt color changes cost nothing.
>>>
>>> If people would like to start sending me their choices, I will
>>> compile a list.
>>>
>> ___
>> Design mailing list
>> Design@lists.snowdrift.coop
>> https://lists.snowdrift.coop/mailman/listinfo/design
> ___
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> 

-- 
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Re: [Design] shirt colors

[Bryan Richter]

On Tue, Jan 05, 2016 at 12:02:52PM -0800, Diana Connolly wrote:
> Jeez, I'm realizing I referred to a "light blue" a couple of emails back,
> which should have been "cool blue". Sorry for the confusion.
> 
> So much for a *final* email. Heh.

Heh, ok. To put all the information in one place again:

Recommendations:

1. Heather Gray with blue ink
2. White with blue ink

3. Cool Blue with white ink
4. Warm Gray with white ink

Do not link to the other colors.

Note that Cool Blue for ladies requires a small amount of extra time
and money.


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Re: [Design] shirt colors

[Diana Connolly]

They suggest adobe illustrator files, and illustrator can handle SVG, so
yes.​

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Aaron Wolf  wrote:

> So, should we go with Heather Gray for women's shirts and Light Gray for
> men's or both as Heather Gray?
>
> Having heard the general judgments about darkness and such, I'm actually
> heavily inclined toward including the Cool Blue with white ink. I think
> there's a chance that could be a great fit with the website colors, and
> I'd like it as a shirt myself.
>
> We could do an initial order that includes some Cool Blue (maybe just
> one for me if nobody else wants one specifically) just to see how it
> turns out…
>
> Other than finalizing this and getting selections from people expecting
> shirts, the only other outstanding question would seem to be how big the
> printed stuff should be. I suppose they can use our mockups as a guide
> and make their best judgements, right?
>
> Finally, I assume sending them SVG files for the designs should be
> adequate, right?
>
> Oh, and for getting choices, we'll need to put up the final design
> options on the website (we can put them at the /donate page), so that
> way I can go to the people expecting shirts who aren't on this design
> list and get their choices.
>
> Glad this is all coming together!
>
> --
> Aaron Wolf Snowdrift.coop 
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Re: [Design] shirt colors

[Bryan Richter]

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 12:07:15PM -0800, Bryan Richter wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 11:47:17AM -0800, Diana Connolly wrote:
> > And here's a wild idea -- the "kelly green" is very compatible
> > with your website colors too, and available for both men and
> > women. I would say that is a "cool" green, and I personally don't
> > like it, but it would look great with the white ink. :)
> 
> Might as well throw it in the list of options then, since it does
> look good and doesn't change any logistics.
> 

Actually, I take that back. Maybe let's just restrict to the top three
(light grey, warm grey, cool blue) in order to minimize the "paralysis
of choice" problem, not to mention the "brand dilution" problem.


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Re: [Design] shirt colors

[Diana Connolly]

I think you could open up the option for both heather and light grey for
men.  Keep in mind (if you care) that heather grey (gray) is slightly
"cooler" than light grey.

On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 11:41 AM, Diana Connolly 
wrote:

> They suggest adobe illustrator files, and illustrator can handle SVG, so
> yes.​
>
> On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Aaron Wolf  wrote:
>
>> So, should we go with Heather Gray for women's shirts and Light Gray for
>> men's or both as Heather Gray?
>>
>> Having heard the general judgments about darkness and such, I'm actually
>> heavily inclined toward including the Cool Blue with white ink. I think
>> there's a chance that could be a great fit with the website colors, and
>> I'd like it as a shirt myself.
>>
>> We could do an initial order that includes some Cool Blue (maybe just
>> one for me if nobody else wants one specifically) just to see how it
>> turns out…
>>
>> Other than finalizing this and getting selections from people expecting
>> shirts, the only other outstanding question would seem to be how big the
>> printed stuff should be. I suppose they can use our mockups as a guide
>> and make their best judgements, right?
>>
>> Finally, I assume sending them SVG files for the designs should be
>> adequate, right?
>>
>> Oh, and for getting choices, we'll need to put up the final design
>> options on the website (we can put them at the /donate page), so that
>> way I can go to the people expecting shirts who aren't on this design
>> list and get their choices.
>>
>> Glad this is all coming together!
>>
>> --
>> Aaron Wolf Snowdrift.coop 
>> ___
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>>
>
>
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Re: [Design] shirt colors

[Diana Connolly]

Just talked to April, she's emailing me some final prices, based on a
minimum of 24 shirts. With that minimum, you get a free color change.

About the color that shows up when you click on the site for men's colors:

http://www.brandbookonline.com/cgi-bin/brand/site.w?location=olc/cobrand-product.w===3600=no=main=04=47012

She says the first image IS heather gray, but on her screen, the actual
color is more like the swatch.
I wanted to point out that the "cool blue" in the top row is a lot like the
Snowdrift "deep blue" but she says is is slightly darker than the swatch.
Again, this is on her screen, so your results may vary... That might be a
good color if you want to add a blue. The "light gray" is a light silver
color, slightly warmer in tone to the "heather gray".

There's no extra charge for underlay with white ink, she just does a couple
of layers of white.

As far as the "feel" of the ink, white ink is denser due to the need for
opacity, but she said our logo and cartoons are small enough that she
doesn't think there would be a comfort issue.

She's not gonna charge up front, and prefers cash. :) If we don't get
around to ordering till I get back from CA (leaving tomorrow - the 29th)
she said we'd still have plenty of time to get the order in before Jan
21st.


On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 3:47 PM, Diana Connolly 
wrote:

> Just touching base... Haven't heard back from April yet, but I just called
> again and also emailed. I'll let you know when I get the rest of the
> details.
>
> Diana
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 10:25 AM, Diana Connolly  > wrote:
>
>> Prices were based on minimum quantity of 24. I'll clarify when I talk to
>> April.
>> On Dec 15, 2015 9:50 AM, "Aaron Wolf"  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/15/2015 09:27 AM, Diana Connolly wrote:
>>> > Hi Everyone, sorry for the delay, I've been dealing with a hideous
>>> cold.
>>> >
>>> > 1. The set up fees for shirt layouts are $25 each. We need three, one
>>> > for the logo and two for the different cartoons, so that's 75 bucks.
>>> >
>>> > 2. Shirt prices (each):
>>> > */Style 3600 (men's)/*
>>> > S-XL = $7.65
>>> > 2XL = $8.65
>>> >
>>> > */Style 3900 (ladies)/*
>>> > S-XL = $7.45
>>> > 2XL = $8.45
>>> >
>>> > 3. If we an underlay is needed for a white ink on a darker color shirt,
>>> > it's an additional ~70 cents per shirt. I'm waiting to hear back from
>>> > April at BlueMill to see if we need that for the warm grey.
>>> >
>>> > 4. There is extra charge for ink changes buy we get two free, so it
>>> > doesn't affect us.
>>> >
>>> > 4. The email chain is quite long and I haven't read it all. If there
>>> was
>>> > someone wanting a darker(or medium) blue t-shirt with white ink, there
>>> > would be no additional charge, because simply changing shirt color
>>> > doesn't affect price, unless it needs an underlay. But I believe she
>>> > told me that if the underlay is white and the ink is white, there is no
>>> > underlay charge. Again, I'm waiting to hear back from April.
>>> >
>>> > 5. Unfortunately, there is no light grey for women! There is heather
>>> > grey. And about that color that everyone seems to like that is the
>>> > default showing on the men's page? It is heather grey. So maybe we run
>>> > with heather grey and warm grey? And possibly a darker blue with white
>>> ink?
>>> >
>>> > 6. We can't really see sample shirts because in order to make a sample
>>> > shirt, the shop incurs all of the setup costs plus has to order the
>>> > shirts. They can do a digital mockup and then we gotta commit and run
>>> > with it.
>>> >
>>> > 7. They normally have a two week turn-around on orders, with 50% down.
>>> > We need to know all details (shirt sizes, colors, designs, quantities)
>>> > before we start.
>>> >
>>> > 8. For future reorders, there is a $10 re-setup fee, and then the costs
>>> > of the shirts.
>>> >
>>> > That's all I can think of. Hope that clarifies everything you guys need
>>> > to know. I'll send out another email when I hear from April about the
>>> > underlay for white ink. I can facilitate ordering, but I'll be out of
>>> > town from Dec. 18th - 29th. So I can do it either before or after
>>> that. :)
>>> >
>>> > Diana
>>> >
>>>
>>> Thanks for getting all those details. So, there's no quantity discount
>>> issues, apparently? That makes it definitely reasonable to do a modest
>>> order at first and regularly place new orders as we go, which is
>>> certainly easier for cash-flow. Also, for the superb quality of these
>>> shirts, those prices seems great.
>>>
>>> Re: Heather Gray, can you just ask them for a subjective judgment of
>>> whether it is on the lighter or darker side in terms of the two images
>>> of it on the website, which seems more accurate to them?
>>>
>>> My inclination is to offer Light Gray and Heather Gray both as options
>>> or at least order some of each just so we see the results for future
>>> reference. And I could see 

Re: [Design] shirt colors

[Aaron Wolf]

On 12/15/2015 09:27 AM, Diana Connolly wrote:
> Hi Everyone, sorry for the delay, I've been dealing with a hideous cold. 
> 
> 1. The set up fees for shirt layouts are $25 each. We need three, one
> for the logo and two for the different cartoons, so that's 75 bucks.
> 
> 2. Shirt prices (each):
> */Style 3600 (men's)/*
> S-XL = $7.65
> 2XL = $8.65
>  
> */Style 3900 (ladies)/*
> S-XL = $7.45
> 2XL = $8.45
> 
> 3. If we an underlay is needed for a white ink on a darker color shirt,
> it's an additional ~70 cents per shirt. I'm waiting to hear back from
> April at BlueMill to see if we need that for the warm grey.
> 
> 4. There is extra charge for ink changes buy we get two free, so it
> doesn't affect us.
> 
> 4. The email chain is quite long and I haven't read it all. If there was
> someone wanting a darker(or medium) blue t-shirt with white ink, there
> would be no additional charge, because simply changing shirt color
> doesn't affect price, unless it needs an underlay. But I believe she
> told me that if the underlay is white and the ink is white, there is no
> underlay charge. Again, I'm waiting to hear back from April.
> 
> 5. Unfortunately, there is no light grey for women! There is heather
> grey. And about that color that everyone seems to like that is the
> default showing on the men's page? It is heather grey. So maybe we run
> with heather grey and warm grey? And possibly a darker blue with white ink?
> 
> 6. We can't really see sample shirts because in order to make a sample
> shirt, the shop incurs all of the setup costs plus has to order the
> shirts. They can do a digital mockup and then we gotta commit and run
> with it.
> 
> 7. They normally have a two week turn-around on orders, with 50% down.
> We need to know all details (shirt sizes, colors, designs, quantities)
> before we start.
> 
> 8. For future reorders, there is a $10 re-setup fee, and then the costs
> of the shirts.
> 
> That's all I can think of. Hope that clarifies everything you guys need
> to know. I'll send out another email when I hear from April about the
> underlay for white ink. I can facilitate ordering, but I'll be out of
> town from Dec. 18th - 29th. So I can do it either before or after that. :)
> 
> Diana
> 

Thanks for getting all those details. So, there's no quantity discount
issues, apparently? That makes it definitely reasonable to do a modest
order at first and regularly place new orders as we go, which is
certainly easier for cash-flow. Also, for the superb quality of these
shirts, those prices seems great.

Re: Heather Gray, can you just ask them for a subjective judgment of
whether it is on the lighter or darker side in terms of the two images
of it on the website, which seems more accurate to them?

My inclination is to offer Light Gray and Heather Gray both as options
or at least order some of each just so we see the results for future
reference. And I could see ordering some darker shirts. I'm not sure how
much we want to offer various options to people vs focus on a
recognizable set of colors consistently.

At any rate, $10 extra to order a smaller set and then a larger order
later, easy enough.

Let's make at least a close to final decision and then mock-up the
options we'll do perhaps with women's shirts shown also, and then I can
use that to get selection info from those people already expecting
shirts. And then we'll probably order something in the range of 100
shirts perhaps at first for general stuff and for SCALE (depending on
how much we can get new donations in conjunction with announcing the
final shirt designs).


> On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 10:26 AM, William Hale  > wrote:
> 
> I liked the left hand side of each of those drafts with a preference
> toward shirts-diana.
> 
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Re: [Design] shirt colors

[Diana Connolly]

Hi Everyone, sorry for the delay, I've been dealing with a hideous cold.

1. The set up fees for shirt layouts are $25 each. We need three, one for
the logo and two for the different cartoons, so that's 75 bucks.

2. Shirt prices (each):
*Style 3600 (men's)*
S-XL = $7.65
2XL = $8.65

*Style 3900 (ladies)*
S-XL = $7.45
2XL = $8.45

3. If we an underlay is needed for a white ink on a darker color shirt,
it's an additional ~70 cents per shirt. I'm waiting to hear back from April
at BlueMill to see if we need that for the warm grey.

4. There is extra charge for ink changes buy we get two free, so it doesn't
affect us.

4. The email chain is quite long and I haven't read it all. If there was
someone wanting a darker(or medium) blue t-shirt with white ink, there
would be no additional charge, because simply changing shirt color doesn't
affect price, unless it needs an underlay. But I believe she told me that
if the underlay is white and the ink is white, there is no underlay charge.
Again, I'm waiting to hear back from April.

5. Unfortunately, there is no light grey for women! There is heather grey.
And about that color that everyone seems to like that is the default
showing on the men's page? It is heather grey. So maybe we run with heather
grey and warm grey? And possibly a darker blue with white ink?

6. We can't really see sample shirts because in order to make a sample
shirt, the shop incurs all of the setup costs plus has to order the shirts.
They can do a digital mockup and then we gotta commit and run with it.

7. They normally have a two week turn-around on orders, with 50% down. We
need to know all details (shirt sizes, colors, designs, quantities) before
we start.

8. For future reorders, there is a $10 re-setup fee, and then the costs of
the shirts.

That's all I can think of. Hope that clarifies everything you guys need to
know. I'll send out another email when I hear from April about the underlay
for white ink. I can facilitate ordering, but I'll be out of town from Dec.
18th - 29th. So I can do it either before or after that. :)

Diana

On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 10:26 AM, William Hale  wrote:

> I liked the left hand side of each of those drafts with a preference
> toward shirts-diana.
>
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Re: [Design] shirt colors

[William Hale]

I liked the left hand side of each of those drafts with a preference
toward shirts-diana.


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Re: [Design] shirt colors

[Bryan Richter]

On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 07:46:34PM +0100, mray wrote:
>
> Leaving aesthetics apart – the warm colors don't feel snowdrift-ish
> enough for me.

Ahhh now we get to the root of the matter. :)

I have to wear warm colors. Cool colors do not suit me at all. My
original wish, which kicked off this hunt for colors, was to have at
least two types of shirt, one a cool palette and one a warm palette,
to suit the largest number of people. I understand the concern with
matching the website's theme, but I was hoping we could find a
complementary palette that suited another sort of skin tones.

> Ironically the best gray (the one from the back shot) does not seem
> to be available as an option, which is why I put in the closest
> thing in my mockup.
> 
> My favorites are the same as Jonathans:
> 
> * Aarons top right (if available!)
> * my bottom middle

I also like those ones. :)



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Re: [Design] shirt colors

[mray]

On 11.12.2015 02:59, Aaron Wolf wrote:
> 
> 
> On 12/10/2015 05:23 PM, mray wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 11.12.2015 00:20, Diana Connolly wrote:
>>> Ok, I just talked to April at mill and I'm sending her more information via
>>> email so she can put together an idea of cost.
>>> As far as colors go, the shirt color doesn't matter at all. We could have
>>> one of every color and it wouldn't change the cost.
>>> There is a set up fee of $25 for one color, and you get one color change
>>> free.
>>> So we could do two shirt colors with different inks with no additional cost.
>>>
>>> Things that affect the costs are screens, ink changes, ink underlays if
>>> needed and shirts. Currently we have three designs to screen - logo and two
>>> cartoons. I'll let you know when I get more information.
>>>
>>> The next question is mostly for Robert - Do you envision any multi-color
>>> design at all?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Diana for your input and research!
>>
>> I think that printing just one color is the safest and cheapest way to
>> go. Given that a second color would only be used to add shading I don't
>> see the need for it. I'd only consider it for no extra cost.
>>
>> As a quick reference I threw together some shirt-ink combinations that
>> made sense to look.
>>
>> I think your palette opens a space for more exciting shirts but I also
>> think we should remain as close to a Snowdrift-ish look as possible.
>>
>> Having different cartoons on light/dark shirts is a result of the shovel
>> being impractical on extra background, but then again I like the idea of
>> having "light" and "dark" in more than one sense. I actually like that
>> subtle restriction.
>>
>> Spacing and size isn't final, just this together before going to bed.
>> All in all I think the combinations with most contrast are winners, gray
>> interestingly turns out to be even more problematic than I anticipated.
>>
>> Does anybody miss a combination?
>> What are your favorites?
>>
>>
> 
> Nice work mocking this up. I think the low-contrast bolder-blue shirt
> doesn't work and the medium-gray with white printing doesn't work, just
> not enough contrast.
> 
> I like the first in each row best initially, but then I also kinda like
> the top right if it just had a little more contrast, either or both
> slightly darker blue or larger size for the items on the back. It's a
> little harder to read, but the color combination is nice aesthetically.
> 
> I think the two shirts with the dark being the angrier one and the light
> being the shovel one, that's nice enough, even though it doesn't give
> people the option of preferring a dark shirt and the more mild design.
> 
> Otherwise, I'm not loving the light blue as the light shirt. So, I made
> some mockups quickly with the other shirts, the Cream, Sand, and Light
> Gray. I'm not sure what the back-image was from the site, looks like a
> light version of the Heather Gray. Anyway, I'd like to hear from others,
> but I think I prefer the Light Gray overall as the light shirt, and I
> like the Cream and Sand options too. See my attached file.
> 
> Aaron
>

Leaving aesthetics apart – the warm colors don't feel snowdrift-ish
enough for me.
Ironically the best gray (the one from the back shot) does not seem to
be available as an option, which is why I put in the closest thing in my
mockup.

My favorites are the same as Jonathans:

* Aarons top right (if available!)
* my bottom middle


Robert



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Re: [Design] shirt colors

[Aaron Wolf]

On 12/10/2015 02:43 PM, Diana Connolly wrote:
> Hi guys, I've called the company and am waiting to hear back from them.
> I really think the shirt you mentioned looks great, it's a nice light
> weight 100% cotton and it comes in styles for both men and women. They
> don't have an oatmeal, but they have a heathered grey. There is also a
> completely awesome "heavy metal" color. And of course, white.
> When they call me back, I'll check to see about the cost of multiple
> shirt colors. One thing that would be nice to know, however, is what
> sizes? I realize that's a tough one, perhaps they can give some advice
> on that.
> 
> Here's a link for anyone who would like to see the colors of the shirts:
> 
> http://www.brandbookonline.com/cgi-bin/brand/site.w?location=olc/cobrand-product.w=3==3600=no=main=04=52092
> 
> Diana
> 

Well, for sizes, we can do some estimates for extras, but my plan has
been to reach out to people expecting shirts and find out what sizes
they want along with the design options depending on which we end up
offering.

As I said, I have the shirt that Eric mentioned from the conference he
ran, and it stands out as actually the best t-shirt I own at all.

Anyway, for colors, based on that site, I agree we shouldn't do plain
white. I could see the current dark-blue ink designs on: Warm Gray,
Sand, Light Gray, Heather Gray, Cream… I think my preference would be
Heather Gray.

I would like to avoid the work of making a dark-shirt design, but I
could see Indigo or Midnight Navy.

I'll await thoughts from other folks, and, Diana, happy to get your
thoughts. If it were up to me to just do something immediately, I think
I'd just go with the current designs with the dark blue images over
Heather Gray.

Robert? Thoughts? Other folks?


> On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 9:57 PM, Aaron Wolf  > wrote:
> 
> Hi Diana,
> 
> Thanks for the quick response!
> 
> If we lived in a world where everyone's favorite shirt color was white,
> then I think the designs we already have with a single print color of
> the dark blue would be just fine.
> 
> The main issue is the fact that many people would *not* prefer a pure
> white shirt color.
> 
> Now, some text and logo can work inverted, but the Mimi and Eunice
> characters do not look good as light color on dark background (but that
> may depend on the degree of contrast and exact colors). Probably, we
> either need an acceptable non-white shirt that is still light colored
> enough that the dark print color works and/or we change the design for a
> dark colored shirt.
> 
> So, maybe we'll offer two shirt colors, a light shirt (maybe still pure
> white?) and the current design and a different design for a dark-colored
> shirt. Or we pick just one of those. Perhaps we can use a second or
> third print color to adjust the design to make it acceptable on a dark
> shirt.
> 
> The basic issue right now is to select acceptable shirt options from
> real available shirts and then get an image to Robert (who I'm copying
> on this email) so that he can weigh in on how he feels about the design
> for the actual real shirts. My sense from Robert is that he basically
> feels nothing can go forward well right now until he knows what actual
> shirt colors we have to choose from.
> 
> Abstractly, I like the white shirts and one-color-printing designs we
> already have… except for the concern about white shirts.
> 
> Thanks again for the help, talk to you soon!
> 
> 
> On 12/09/2015 09:44 PM, Diana Connolly wrote:
> > Hi Aaron!
> > I've been thinking about colors today. I can talk to the shirt company
> > tomorrow.
> > One question - do you want to go with just a one color print? In that
> > case, I think your preview using the deep blue is good for a white
> > background. See below for links to color schemes.
> >
> > The first each series is shirt color, second primary ink color, third
> > accent, plus a couple optional accents.
> > A lot of these are straight out of your design guide.
> >
> > I'd like to see what your graphics guy thinks and I'll ask the shirt
> > company what the price difference would be for multiple colors, if you
> > want to go that way.
> >
> > White background:
> > https://coolors.co/app/ff-13628e-44a76b-f9ff68-7d7d7d
> >
> > Charcoal background:
> > https://coolors.co/app/696969-ffa700-13628e-b2-47cfec
> >
> > Talk to you tomorrow,
> > Diana
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 9:02 PM, Aaron Wolf  
> > >> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Diana,
> >
> > Just following up. Do you have any questions about things per the
> > detailed reply I provided about shirts?
>  

Re: [Design] shirt colors

[Diana Connolly]

Ok, I just talked to April at mill and I'm sending her more information via
email so she can put together an idea of cost.
As far as colors go, the shirt color doesn't matter at all. We could have
one of every color and it wouldn't change the cost.
There is a set up fee of $25 for one color, and you get one color change
free.
So we could do two shirt colors with different inks with no additional cost.

Things that affect the costs are screens, ink changes, ink underlays if
needed and shirts. Currently we have three designs to screen - logo and two
cartoons. I'll let you know when I get more information.

The next question is mostly for Robert - Do you envision any multi-color
design at all?

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Aaron Wolf  wrote:

>
>
> On 12/10/2015 02:43 PM, Diana Connolly wrote:
> > Hi guys, I've called the company and am waiting to hear back from them.
> > I really think the shirt you mentioned looks great, it's a nice light
> > weight 100% cotton and it comes in styles for both men and women. They
> > don't have an oatmeal, but they have a heathered grey. There is also a
> > completely awesome "heavy metal" color. And of course, white.
> > When they call me back, I'll check to see about the cost of multiple
> > shirt colors. One thing that would be nice to know, however, is what
> > sizes? I realize that's a tough one, perhaps they can give some advice
> > on that.
> >
> > Here's a link for anyone who would like to see the colors of the shirts:
> >
> >
> http://www.brandbookonline.com/cgi-bin/brand/site.w?location=olc/cobrand-product.w=3==3600=no=main=04=52092
> >
> > Diana
> >
>
> Well, for sizes, we can do some estimates for extras, but my plan has
> been to reach out to people expecting shirts and find out what sizes
> they want along with the design options depending on which we end up
> offering.
>
> As I said, I have the shirt that Eric mentioned from the conference he
> ran, and it stands out as actually the best t-shirt I own at all.
>
> Anyway, for colors, based on that site, I agree we shouldn't do plain
> white. I could see the current dark-blue ink designs on: Warm Gray,
> Sand, Light Gray, Heather Gray, Cream… I think my preference would be
> Heather Gray.
>
> I would like to avoid the work of making a dark-shirt design, but I
> could see Indigo or Midnight Navy.
>
> I'll await thoughts from other folks, and, Diana, happy to get your
> thoughts. If it were up to me to just do something immediately, I think
> I'd just go with the current designs with the dark blue images over
> Heather Gray.
>
> Robert? Thoughts? Other folks?
>
>
> > On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 9:57 PM, Aaron Wolf  > > wrote:
> >
> > Hi Diana,
> >
> > Thanks for the quick response!
> >
> > If we lived in a world where everyone's favorite shirt color was
> white,
> > then I think the designs we already have with a single print color of
> > the dark blue would be just fine.
> >
> > The main issue is the fact that many people would *not* prefer a pure
> > white shirt color.
> >
> > Now, some text and logo can work inverted, but the Mimi and Eunice
> > characters do not look good as light color on dark background (but
> that
> > may depend on the degree of contrast and exact colors). Probably, we
> > either need an acceptable non-white shirt that is still light colored
> > enough that the dark print color works and/or we change the design
> for a
> > dark colored shirt.
> >
> > So, maybe we'll offer two shirt colors, a light shirt (maybe still
> pure
> > white?) and the current design and a different design for a
> dark-colored
> > shirt. Or we pick just one of those. Perhaps we can use a second or
> > third print color to adjust the design to make it acceptable on a
> dark
> > shirt.
> >
> > The basic issue right now is to select acceptable shirt options from
> > real available shirts and then get an image to Robert (who I'm
> copying
> > on this email) so that he can weigh in on how he feels about the
> design
> > for the actual real shirts. My sense from Robert is that he basically
> > feels nothing can go forward well right now until he knows what
> actual
> > shirt colors we have to choose from.
> >
> > Abstractly, I like the white shirts and one-color-printing designs we
> > already have… except for the concern about white shirts.
> >
> > Thanks again for the help, talk to you soon!
> >
> >
> > On 12/09/2015 09:44 PM, Diana Connolly wrote:
> > > Hi Aaron!
> > > I've been thinking about colors today. I can talk to the shirt
> company
> > > tomorrow.
> > > One question - do you want to go with just a one color print? In
> that
> > > case, I think your preview using the deep blue is good for a white
> > > background. See below for links to color schemes.
> > >
> > > The first each series is 

Re: [Design] shirt colors

[Diana Connolly]

at Bluemill, not mill. Heh

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 3:20 PM, Diana Connolly 
wrote:

> Ok, I just talked to April at mill and I'm sending her more information
> via email so she can put together an idea of cost.
> As far as colors go, the shirt color doesn't matter at all. We could have
> one of every color and it wouldn't change the cost.
> There is a set up fee of $25 for one color, and you get one color change
> free.
> So we could do two shirt colors with different inks with no additional
> cost.
>
> Things that affect the costs are screens, ink changes, ink underlays if
> needed and shirts. Currently we have three designs to screen - logo and two
> cartoons. I'll let you know when I get more information.
>
> The next question is mostly for Robert - Do you envision any multi-color
> design at all?
>
> On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Aaron Wolf  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 12/10/2015 02:43 PM, Diana Connolly wrote:
>> > Hi guys, I've called the company and am waiting to hear back from them.
>> > I really think the shirt you mentioned looks great, it's a nice light
>> > weight 100% cotton and it comes in styles for both men and women. They
>> > don't have an oatmeal, but they have a heathered grey. There is also a
>> > completely awesome "heavy metal" color. And of course, white.
>> > When they call me back, I'll check to see about the cost of multiple
>> > shirt colors. One thing that would be nice to know, however, is what
>> > sizes? I realize that's a tough one, perhaps they can give some advice
>> > on that.
>> >
>> > Here's a link for anyone who would like to see the colors of the shirts:
>> >
>> >
>> http://www.brandbookonline.com/cgi-bin/brand/site.w?location=olc/cobrand-product.w=3==3600=no=main=04=52092
>> >
>> > Diana
>> >
>>
>> Well, for sizes, we can do some estimates for extras, but my plan has
>> been to reach out to people expecting shirts and find out what sizes
>> they want along with the design options depending on which we end up
>> offering.
>>
>> As I said, I have the shirt that Eric mentioned from the conference he
>> ran, and it stands out as actually the best t-shirt I own at all.
>>
>> Anyway, for colors, based on that site, I agree we shouldn't do plain
>> white. I could see the current dark-blue ink designs on: Warm Gray,
>> Sand, Light Gray, Heather Gray, Cream… I think my preference would be
>> Heather Gray.
>>
>> I would like to avoid the work of making a dark-shirt design, but I
>> could see Indigo or Midnight Navy.
>>
>> I'll await thoughts from other folks, and, Diana, happy to get your
>> thoughts. If it were up to me to just do something immediately, I think
>> I'd just go with the current designs with the dark blue images over
>> Heather Gray.
>>
>> Robert? Thoughts? Other folks?
>>
>>
>> > On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 9:57 PM, Aaron Wolf > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Diana,
>> >
>> > Thanks for the quick response!
>> >
>> > If we lived in a world where everyone's favorite shirt color was
>> white,
>> > then I think the designs we already have with a single print color
>> of
>> > the dark blue would be just fine.
>> >
>> > The main issue is the fact that many people would *not* prefer a
>> pure
>> > white shirt color.
>> >
>> > Now, some text and logo can work inverted, but the Mimi and Eunice
>> > characters do not look good as light color on dark background (but
>> that
>> > may depend on the degree of contrast and exact colors). Probably, we
>> > either need an acceptable non-white shirt that is still light
>> colored
>> > enough that the dark print color works and/or we change the design
>> for a
>> > dark colored shirt.
>> >
>> > So, maybe we'll offer two shirt colors, a light shirt (maybe still
>> pure
>> > white?) and the current design and a different design for a
>> dark-colored
>> > shirt. Or we pick just one of those. Perhaps we can use a second or
>> > third print color to adjust the design to make it acceptable on a
>> dark
>> > shirt.
>> >
>> > The basic issue right now is to select acceptable shirt options from
>> > real available shirts and then get an image to Robert (who I'm
>> copying
>> > on this email) so that he can weigh in on how he feels about the
>> design
>> > for the actual real shirts. My sense from Robert is that he
>> basically
>> > feels nothing can go forward well right now until he knows what
>> actual
>> > shirt colors we have to choose from.
>> >
>> > Abstractly, I like the white shirts and one-color-printing designs
>> we
>> > already have… except for the concern about white shirts.
>> >
>> > Thanks again for the help, talk to you soon!
>> >
>> >
>> > On 12/09/2015 09:44 PM, Diana Connolly wrote:
>> > > Hi Aaron!
>> > > I've been thinking about colors today. I can talk to the shirt
>> company
>> > > tomorrow.
>> > 

Re: [Design] shirt colors

[Jonathan Roberts]

On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 5:59 PM, Aaron Wolf  wrote:

>
>
> On 12/10/2015 05:23 PM, mray wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 11.12.2015 00:20, Diana Connolly wrote:
> >> Ok, I just talked to April at mill and I'm sending her more information
> via
> >> email so she can put together an idea of cost.
> >> As far as colors go, the shirt color doesn't matter at all. We could
> have
> >> one of every color and it wouldn't change the cost.
> >> There is a set up fee of $25 for one color, and you get one color change
> >> free.
> >> So we could do two shirt colors with different inks with no additional
> cost.
> >>
> >> Things that affect the costs are screens, ink changes, ink underlays if
> >> needed and shirts. Currently we have three designs to screen - logo and
> two
> >> cartoons. I'll let you know when I get more information.
> >>
> >> The next question is mostly for Robert - Do you envision any multi-color
> >> design at all?
> >>
> >
> >
> > Thanks Diana for your input and research!
> >
> > I think that printing just one color is the safest and cheapest way to
> > go. Given that a second color would only be used to add shading I don't
> > see the need for it. I'd only consider it for no extra cost.
> >
> > As a quick reference I threw together some shirt-ink combinations that
> > made sense to look.
> >
> > I think your palette opens a space for more exciting shirts but I also
> > think we should remain as close to a Snowdrift-ish look as possible.
> >
> > Having different cartoons on light/dark shirts is a result of the shovel
> > being impractical on extra background, but then again I like the idea of
> > having "light" and "dark" in more than one sense. I actually like that
> > subtle restriction.
> >
> > Spacing and size isn't final, just this together before going to bed.
> > All in all I think the combinations with most contrast are winners, gray
> > interestingly turns out to be even more problematic than I anticipated.
> >
> > Does anybody miss a combination?
> > What are your favorites?
>

Bottom middle in Robert's mock up is my favorite dark, and upper right in
Aaron's mock up is my favorite light.

> >
> >
>
> Nice work mocking this up. I think the low-contrast bolder-blue shirt
> doesn't work and the medium-gray with white printing doesn't work, just
> not enough contrast.
>
> I like the first in each row best initially, but then I also kinda like
> the top right if it just had a little more contrast, either or both
> slightly darker blue or larger size for the items on the back. It's a
> little harder to read, but the color combination is nice aesthetically.
>
> I think the two shirts with the dark being the angrier one and the light
> being the shovel one, that's nice enough, even though it doesn't give
> people the option of preferring a dark shirt and the more mild design.
>
> Otherwise, I'm not loving the light blue as the light shirt. So, I made
> some mockups quickly with the other shirts, the Cream, Sand, and Light
> Gray. I'm not sure what the back-image was from the site, looks like a
> light version of the Heather Gray. Anyway, I'd like to hear from others,
> but I think I prefer the Light Gray overall as the light shirt, and I
> like the Cream and Sand options too. See my attached file.
>
> Aaron
>
>
>
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Re: [Design] shirt colors

[Diana Connolly]

As I replied to Aaron, I was thinking about colors today, and will talk to
shirt company tomorrow.

One question - do you want to go with just a one color print? In that case,
I think your preview using the deep blue is good for a white background.
See below for links to color schemes.

The first in each series is shirt color, second primary ink color, third
accent, plus a couple optional accents.
A lot of these are straight out of your design guide.

I'll check on prices tomorrow, are we finalized on a graphic?

White background:
https://coolors.co/app/ff-13628e-44a76b-f9ff68-7d7d7d

Charcoal background:
https://coolors.co/app/696969-ffa700-13628e-b2-47cfec

Cheers,
Diana
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Re: [Design] shirt colors

[Bryan Richter]

On Fri, Dec 04, 2015 at 07:43:14PM +0100, mray wrote:
> 
> 
> On 01.12.2015 21:53, Bryan Richter wrote:
> > Well, after saying that, I *do* prefer white over some shades of gray.
> > 
> > No terrible cultural reference intended.
> > 
> > From my perspective, I'd like to offer at least two colors (maybe
> > neutral and blue?), if not more.
> > 
> > Robert, I suppose I'm not certain about your style guide. Is that
> > *just* a guide for the web? E.g. would it be a bad idea to use a
> > monochrome logo on top of a selection of colors better suited to
> > humans that to websites?
> > 
> 
> The guide has online use in mind and does not specifically treat other
> media types. But even having the differences of printing and RGB display
> in mind some things should remain as similar as possible. Namely the
> colors. Introducing gray is not preferable if there is an option to use
> our blue, but ultimately nothing is thought to be a law that cannot be
> broken. it is just an order of preferences.
> 
> I might prefer a clean grayscale shirt better to one where we would have
> to use a strange blue that does not resemble our blue for example.

As mentioned in IRC, I've enlisted my mother (Diana Connolly) to help
with colors. She's joined this list and should chime in momentarily.
:)


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Re: [Design] shirt colors

[Aaron Wolf]

Hi Diana,

Thanks for the help!

On 12/04/2015 01:42 PM, Diana Connolly wrote:
> Hi there everyone! As Bryan threatened, I'm chiming in. 
> 
> Things I know:
> You want shirts before SCALE on Jan 21st.
> You would like colors to reflect the Snowdrift design guide.
> You would like people to actually wear the t-shirts.
> 
> Things I don't know:
> What is your budget?

Well, our budget isn't as concrete as I'd like. We're scraping by with
limited resources and basically personal funds of the co-founders along
with whatever donations we get at this time.

We have additional expenses for stickers and other things for our booth
for SCALE, and we basically have around $2,000 buffer for these things.
Now, at some level, the shirts are offered to people as a reward for
additional donations, and we want them to be decent enough.

> How many shirts would you like to have on hand?

We have around 20 donors already expecting shirts and should be printing
5-10 more for primary team members. Beyond that, we will want to be
efficient and order extra shirts to have on hand, but it doesn't need to
be a lot.

We also want to have a situation where it's easy to place re-orders. We
might have initial run of shirts, then they are out there, we'll have
pictures of them, pictures of us wearing them, etc. and we can get other
donations and interest and then place larger order accordingly. We do
want to take advantage of bulk pricing within reason and can scrape
together funds to take advantage of that if it's clearly financially
superior to do so in the medium-term.


> How about a few women's cut shirts thrown in?

I really like the idea of having the *option* to order women's cuts at
least. We certainly can consider a few to have on hand if that seems
sensible, but

> Do you want organic/green production or the cheapest available?
> 

We have to balance these decisions based on looking at actual options
and cost differences. We *do* care about quality and ethics. Our ideal
would be to use cooperatively-run business using
environmentally-friendly practices and great shirts people will really
love. We likely will make some compromises.

Here's a big deal for the value of local stuff: I have been to many
conferences, most shirts I have are fine but unremarkable. But the local
Write the Docs conference provided jerzy material shirts or something
like that which are nicer fit *and* simply amazingly comfortable and
attractive, really stands out.

I contacted the conference organizer, and he says:

"we use http://bluemillscreenprint.com/ -- they are great to work with,
and helped us pick out shirts. We used Next level 3600 & 3900 (men &
womens), I believe for the shirts. If you end up using them, let them
know I [Eric Holscher] sent ya :) "

That's a local Portland business, so we/you can go there and talk to
people in person, see shirts, etc.

> Some comments:
> Your website design guide is cohesive and clean, and for a lot of
> people, hard to wear. I've seen some comments suggesting white or blue
> shirts and here's what I think: There are a few colors that are
> universally wearable, including teal, true red, aubergine, and deep
> coral. The closest thing you have to any of those is your "dark blue",
> so let's work with that. 
> 

For reference, here's the designs we had already which were made before
anyone thought to consider the issue of shirt color:

https://snowdrift.coop/img/shirt-preview-12-04

On an interesting side-note, probably too expensive and impractical, but
a two-tone shirt like this might fly: https://imgur.com/KuKCaOZ


> Your "dark blue" is a muted, slightly warm, deep blue, definitely
> leaning towards a teal. Most t-shirt companies start with standard
> shirts and can customize ink colors more readily. So going with a "blue"
> shirt will most likely give you a true royal or navy, and that doesn't
> fit the bill. In general, I'd say that white t-shirts look like
> underwear, but for some people, it may work as a logo shirt if the
> fabric is thick enough.

> The real issue with getting people to wear your shirts is that what
> looks good on a grey eyed caucasian is not going to look good on a
> swarthy Italian. I think you need a minimum of two colors. Go for a
> cooler, lighter shirt and a darker, warmer shirt. I suggest a charcoal
> grey and white as shirt colors with judicious use of your guide colors
> and perhaps the addition of a warmer accent such as true red or chrome
> yellow on the charcoal. You have a lot of cute designs and a great logo.
> It would be easy to run with those designs and just pick the right colors.
> 

Yeah, I agree shirt color is a real issue, and we just hadn't thought
about that until now.

I agree with the concern about white shirts and thing that a charcoal
grey and white could work. And I could see offering two color options,
so a second one that is dark colored.


> Bottom line:
> I'm willing to help and I'm sure I can come up with some great options!
> There are companies in