Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
Hello Dovel, Dovel [2009-03-29 22:04 -]: Not going to change to an applet I don't even want on my panel. It has no use for me. If you don't need it, just remove it, and the System menu entries will reappear. -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to gnome-panel in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
On Wed, 2009-03-04 at 08:18 +, Matthew East wrote: Lots of people will remove the FUSA applet, either intentionally to save panel space (because they don't have multi-user systems and can't see the point of the huge long applet) or accidentally, so I can't see that we can avoid documenting both ways. And this looks clumsy. I think that for documentation we can assume that people won't remove the FUSA applet. It is locked on the panel, so it is relatively difficult to do. If they're going to go to that effort, I think that they're taking their own path, and are outside the documentation. If you're going to go that far, you should also document people who choose to remove the system menu. -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to gnome-panel in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
On Wed, 2009-03-04 at 12:24 +, wensveen wrote: About the implementation of this patch: isn't there any way FUSA could disable stuff in the gnome-panel, instead of the gnome-panel looking for FUSA? That would be a little more future-proof. FUSA might not be around forever. Not really without making the panel menus have another interface, on DBus or something similar. While possible, it would make the patch very large and make the panel have two IPC mechanisms. I looked for a way to do that efficiently, and unfortunately there wasn't one. I think it's a good idea but not reasonable to implement. -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to gnome-panel in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Ted Gould t...@gould.cx wrote: On Wed, 2009-03-04 at 08:18 +, Matthew East wrote: Lots of people will remove the FUSA applet, either intentionally to save panel space (because they don't have multi-user systems and can't see the point of the huge long applet) or accidentally, so I can't see that we can avoid documenting both ways. And this looks clumsy. I think that for documentation we can assume that people won't remove the FUSA applet. It is locked on the panel, so it is relatively difficult to do. If they're going to go to that effort, I think that they're taking their own path, and are outside the documentation. If you're going to go that far, you should also document people who choose to remove the system menu. Although your first point is one worth considering, I don't think the last sentence is logical. There are no obvious reasons to remove the system menu - it contains a lot of crucial applications. On the other hand, even though I haven't done it myself, there are obvious reasons for some people to remove the FUSA applet: it takes up a lot of panel space because it has the user's name by it, and for the majority of people who just have one user account, they are pretty likely to remember their name already. See for example: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2009-March/012450.html Maybe the solution is to remove the name, making the applet smaller, I don't know - after all the applet is no longer really about switching user, it will be used a lot more often to shut down the computer and log off. I'm still vaguely annoyed that we have to go to the trouble of patching Gnome documentation about this though, it seems to me that the correct approach would have been to convince upstream that this is the right way to go, and then feed the work in that way. Any serious deltas with Gnome that makes it necessary to patch their documentation are unfortunate because not only do we need to write and maintain the patch as upstream documentation changes, but our translators have to translate the new strings too. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to gnome-panel in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
On Wed, 2009-03-04 at 14:34 +, Matthew East wrote: Although your first point is one worth considering, I don't think the last sentence is logical. There are no obvious reasons to remove the system menu - it contains a lot of crucial applications. On the other hand, even though I haven't done it myself, there are obvious reasons for some people to remove the FUSA applet: it takes up a lot of panel space because it has the user's name by it, and for the majority of people who just have one user account, they are pretty likely to remember their name already. I think that they're roughly equivalent in likelyhood. Figuring out how to remove applets from the panel is rather difficult, and should not be encouraged. Maybe the solution is to remove the name, making the applet smaller, I don't know - after all the applet is no longer really about switching user, it will be used a lot more often to shut down the computer and log off. This is a supported preference. You can replace your name with an icon, I've seen people do that. The other feature that most people will loose is the ability to use the guest session feature. Personally, I do use that feature and would miss it if gone. Also it's important to note that with the messaging indicator in the current Jaunty the default for Pidgin is to not show it's status in the notification area. Without the FUSA applet it would be a pain for users to change their IM status also. I'm still vaguely annoyed that we have to go to the trouble of patching Gnome documentation about this though, it seems to me that the correct approach would have been to convince upstream that this is the right way to go, and then feed the work in that way. Any serious deltas with Gnome that makes it necessary to patch their documentation are unfortunate because not only do we need to write and maintain the patch as upstream documentation changes, but our translators have to translate the new strings too. We have talked with upstream about this several times. They are now adding similar functionality to the user switch applet with the new GDM. All changes from upstream are difficult, but unfortunately to innovate we're required to make some changes. -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to gnome-panel in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 2:53 PM, Ted Gould t...@gould.cx wrote: On Wed, 2009-03-04 at 14:34 +, Matthew East wrote: Although your first point is one worth considering, I don't think the last sentence is logical. There are no obvious reasons to remove the system menu - it contains a lot of crucial applications. On the other hand, even though I haven't done it myself, there are obvious reasons for some people to remove the FUSA applet: it takes up a lot of panel space because it has the user's name by it, and for the majority of people who just have one user account, they are pretty likely to remember their name already. I think that they're roughly equivalent in likelyhood. Figuring out how to remove applets from the panel is rather difficult, and should not be encouraged. It's not that difficult, and people will find a way if they think there is a good reason. I don't think there is a reason that people will try to find a way to remove the System menu... Anyway we can agree to disagree about that. Maybe the solution is to remove the name, making the applet smaller, I don't know - after all the applet is no longer really about switching user, it will be used a lot more often to shut down the computer and log off. This is a supported preference. You can replace your name with an icon, I've seen people do that. Yeah, I saw that option. But it's a bit ugly, because the two icons next to each other look a bit odd. Better just to have the red power icon, I think. The other feature that most people will loose is the ability to use the guest session feature. Personally, I do use that feature and would miss it if gone. You wouldn't have to remove that feature if you remove the name by the icon, you just change the look of the applet and reduce its imprint in the panel. Also it's important to note that with the messaging indicator in the current Jaunty the default for Pidgin is to not show it's status in the notification area. Without the FUSA applet it would be a pain for users to change their IM status also. Yes, I'm certainly not arguing against the existence of the applet. I'm still vaguely annoyed that we have to go to the trouble of patching Gnome documentation about this though, it seems to me that the correct approach would have been to convince upstream that this is the right way to go, and then feed the work in that way. Any serious deltas with Gnome that makes it necessary to patch their documentation are unfortunate because not only do we need to write and maintain the patch as upstream documentation changes, but our translators have to translate the new strings too. We have talked with upstream about this several times. They are now adding similar functionality to the user switch applet with the new GDM. That's good to know. -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to gnome-panel in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 01:41 +, wensveen wrote: BTW, I happened to like these items under system. I also like to be able to switch users fast, but I don't like the fact that fusa can do all kinds of other stuff as well, like configuring the login screen, displaying pidgin status, etc. But maybe that's just me. A user pref (maybe not even a visible one, just configurable in gconf-editor) would be great. You might play with the GConf settings that are there. There are several that control which things FUSA shows, you might find something you like. -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to gnome-panel in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
You need to install the user switcher yourself, I'm afraid. Right click on the top panel, choose Add to Panel and go from there. I would recommend putting it in the top right. Mark -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to gnome-panel in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
Thanks but the user switcher, when added to the panel, does not include the shutdown or restart options, which is what I am looking for. I even tried reloading the applet from synaptic. No worries. I'm just about to start a fresh install. -Tom Mark Shuttleworth wrote: You need to install the user switcher yourself, I'm afraid. Right click on the top panel, choose Add to Panel and go from there. I would recommend putting it in the top right. Mark -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to gnome-panel in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
Ted Gould wrote: While I agree that it should be dynamic, the goal was to make the patch as small as possible considering the date in the release cycle. The reality is that, to make it dynamic, will require introducing some plumbing into gnome-panel that is not really there. Since it looks like this will not be applied for Intrepid, what do people think for Jaunty? I'm unsure that it's worth the work to add the plumbing when all signs are pointing to Jaunty probably being the last release with gnome-panel. We should definitely fix this for Jaunty, and I would like to backport the fix to Intrepid once the release is settled. Mark -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to gnome-panel in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 13:53 +, Rodney Dawes wrote: Ted, if that's the case, then why bother with it at all? You could just wait until the new panel comes about, and have it Just Work (TM) without all the breakage in the meantime, because the patch is inadequate for dealing with a lot of seemingly common cases. I know one of the first things I always do when I install a new system, is to immediately remove the FUSA applet. It is of absolutely no use to me, having only one user ever. Because basically we're prototyping features of the new panel. FWIW, the applet does do a lot more than switch users. It does IM status, login/shutdown, lock the screen and allow you to start guest sessions. -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to gnome-panel in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
No, Scott, I'd like to backport the fix as an SRU. -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to gnome-panel in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 15:55 +, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: No, Scott, I'd like to backport the fix as an SRU. Sorry Mark, but changing a behaviour such as the ability to log out *after* a release is insane! All of the documentation and screenshots refer to the existence of those menu options; users will have been using the system for a while, and may be used to using those options. You can't suddenly disappear something as important as Log Out/Shutdown after a release in an update! Scott -- Scott James Remnant [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to gnome-panel in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
Scott James Remnant wrote: On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 15:55 +, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: No, Scott, I'd like to backport the fix as an SRU. Sorry Mark, but changing a behaviour such as the ability to log out *after* a release is insane! Then reconsider the position before the release. It's insane to ship two menu items on the same panel that do the same thing. Mark -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to gnome-panel in ubuntu. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
Martin Pitt wrote: Right, I just don't see how to sanely do that use that button over here educationary UI in the current state of intrepid (or at all, but that requires some UI expert). Exactly, so the better option is to move it, and let people figure it out. The current patch shows the power icon in the top right in any event. but not to have two, totally different, ways to do something. That's actually my very concern here. With the current panel we currently have one way which *always* works (system menu). If we hide that, we suddenly have two different ways to shut down the system, one for people with fusa, one for people without. Since we can't enforce fusa without rewriting the panel first [1], we still need to have the system menu entries at least for upgrades. No we don't. We only need the system menu entries if someone has removed fusa. We will place fusa correctly for everyone on upgrade, and only show a single set of menu entries. [1] Side note: OMGponies! My poor panel is going to be abducted! http://live.gnome.org/Boston2008/GUIHackfest/WindowManagementAndMore Yes, we helped write that last week. That's actually a very good example. If an user installed tbird and upgrades to intrepid, he will continue to have tbird, while a fresh intrepid installation comes with evo. I know that it doesn't fit this bug to 100%, but it demonstrates that we need to take into account user preferences for not doing things the way we intend to by default. The user has upgraded the SYSTEM from 8.04 to 8.10. In the process, the SYSTEM has changed, and one of those changes is the location of the menu options to log out. You won't convince me that we need to leave old crap around when we upgrade ;-). Mark -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a bug assignee. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
On Wed, 2008-10-15 at 10:04 +, Martin Pitt wrote: Sebastian, Ted, how can this be done sanely on upgrades? It'd require some heuristics to figure out which of the existing panel objects can be moved to the left, until we hit one which we can squeeze by the width of fusa, and thus where the move to left process can stop. E. g. for my own panel the only stretchable area is the window list; there is no free space, and the other things on the panel have a fixed width. Do applets tell whether they are stretchable? The way that this works is that the panel does all of the work. Basically in the configuration there is a suggested location and the panel tries it's best to honor that suggestion. So what we do in the default configuration is set the locations to incremental pixel locations, for example the FUSA applet at 1 and the clock at two. The panel first honors the FUSA request and puts it on the right, and then honors the clocks request to be as close to that as possible. So an upgrade script doesn't really need to do heuristics as much as it needs to ensure that there is a count between all of the applets and that, of the right aligned applets, the FUSA applet has the lowest number. The panel will take care of the rest. -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a bug assignee. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
On Wed, 2008-10-15 at 08:27 +, Martin Pitt wrote: So what should happen exactly for intrepid and for further releases? Dynamic system menu? That needs to be implemented *very* quickly now (Intrepid freezes tomorrow, and has been in UI freeze for a long time already). I think future releases aren't too much of an issue. In Boston there seemed to be no one promoting keeping the current panel code. It may be around for Jaunty, but I can't imagine longer than that. Upgrading user settings? I do think we need a better plan/mechanism for making that work. I'm not sure which track, but I think that'd be a good UDS session. -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a bug assignee. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
Sebastien Bacher wrote: We should certainly place the FUSA in the top right, and lock it, for all users. what do we do for users who changed their gnome-panel to only have one bar at the bottom of the screen for example? that's quite a common scenario Good point. We should pop it on that toolbar, at the right. -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a bug assignee. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
Sebastien Bacher wrote: I've nothing against the change and having a preference letting the user select the layout to use would be alright No, we don't want to introduce tons of preferences just to let people stay on an old layout. but doing dynamic menus change depending of the configured applet is really something that looks non obvious Please feel free to suggest ways we can make people aware of the change. Mark -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a bug assignee. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
Martin Pitt wrote: Mark Shuttleworth [2008-10-15 7:34 -]: No we don't. We only need the system menu entries if someone has removed fusa. We will place fusa correctly for everyone on upgrade, and only show a single set of menu entries. As I said, once we actually do this, I could live with it, but right now we don't. But right now we only place the new fusa for people who either had the old fusa or the old logout button. This isn't true for people who either reconfigured their panel or upgraded from earlier Ubuntu releases (where we did not have these applets). We should place the menu in the correct place for all users - new, upgrade, regardless of their configuration. So what should happen exactly for intrepid and for further releases? Dynamic system menu? That needs to be implemented *very* quickly now (Intrepid freezes tomorrow, and has been in UI freeze for a long time already). We should certainly place the FUSA in the top right, and lock it, for all users. If we can, I would like the system menu to amend itself accordingly, though I understand that we are late in the cycle for that kind of change and will accept it if we can't make it in time for release. Mark -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a bug assignee. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
Mark Shuttleworth [2008-10-15 8:56 -]: We should place the menu in the correct place for all users - new, upgrade, regardless of their configuration. OK, it's at least much more consistent than the dynamic menu black magic. We should certainly place the FUSA in the top right, and lock it, for all users. Sebastian, Ted, how can this be done sanely on upgrades? It'd require some heuristics to figure out which of the existing panel objects can be moved to the left, until we hit one which we can squeeze by the width of fusa, and thus where the move to left process can stop. E. g. for my own panel the only stretchable area is the window list; there is no free space, and the other things on the panel have a fixed width. Do applets tell whether they are stretchable? Thanks, Martin -- Martin Pitt| http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a bug assignee. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
Mark Shuttleworth [2008-10-15 7:34 -]: No we don't. We only need the system menu entries if someone has removed fusa. We will place fusa correctly for everyone on upgrade, and only show a single set of menu entries. As I said, once we actually do this, I could live with it, but right now we don't. But right now we only place the new fusa for people who either had the old fusa or the old logout button. This isn't true for people who either reconfigured their panel or upgraded from earlier Ubuntu releases (where we did not have these applets). But anyway, I'm just stating my concerns here. You are the SABDFL. :-) So what should happen exactly for intrepid and for further releases? Dynamic system menu? That needs to be implemented *very* quickly now (Intrepid freezes tomorrow, and has been in UI freeze for a long time already). -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a bug assignee. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
Mark Shuttleworth [2008-10-14 16:37 -]: I think there is a simultaneous proposal to ensure that everyone gets the FUSA applet, in the right place. That was bug 274146, but it does not apply to everyone, just to everyone who previously had fusa or the logout applet. -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a bug assignee. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
Hi Mark, Mark Shuttleworth [2008-10-14 16:36 -]: It would be poor to end up with multiple menu items on the panel that do the same thing. Aside from the fact that gnome-power-manager is already duplicating functionality, too (suspend/resume), what is actually so bad about this? What do you suggest we can do to shift the standard behavior for folks who are used to the old way of doing it? Hm, I'm afraid I have no quick idea. I guess it would be hard for me to argue :-), since I like the system menu entries (and I never use anything else, since I never got the logout or fusa applets). Maybe Matthew can help here? My concern is that for upgraders this would be pretty unexpected. They have always had these two menu options, and now suddenly they wouldn't any more. It is not at all obvious that you can use fusa to shutdown your machine or put it to hibernation (since these kinds of actions are totally unrelated to switching users). It is also a documentation issue. As long as we don't move everyone to a forced fusa, we would end up with some inconsistency, where we had to say if you have fusa, use this to shutdown; if you don't, use that. Martin -- Martin Pitt| http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a bug assignee. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
Martin Pitt wrote: Aside from the fact that gnome-power-manager is already duplicating functionality, too (suspend/resume), what is actually so bad about this? It's bad form, from a usability perspective, to have lots of ways to achieve the same goal. It's reasonable to lead people from one place where they often go and peek to try and get something done to the right place, but not to have two, totally different, ways to do something. The same reason we don't ship evolution *and* thunderbird! My concern is that for upgraders this would be pretty unexpected. They have always had these two menu options, and now suddenly they wouldn't any more. True, we need to figure out how to coach people through changes like this, but we also should not be afraid to move people firmly in a particular direction. Mark -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a bug assignee. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
Mark Shuttleworth [2008-10-14 18:44 -]: It's bad form, from a usability perspective, to have lots of ways to achieve the same goal. Agreed on that. It's reasonable to lead people from one place where they often go and peek to try and get something done to the right place Right, I just don't see how to sanely do that use that button over here educationary UI in the current state of intrepid (or at all, but that requires some UI expert). but not to have two, totally different, ways to do something. That's actually my very concern here. With the current panel we currently have one way which *always* works (system menu). If we hide that, we suddenly have two different ways to shut down the system, one for people with fusa, one for people without. Since we can't enforce fusa without rewriting the panel first [1], we still need to have the system menu entries at least for upgrades. [1] Side note: OMGponies! My poor panel is going to be abducted! http://live.gnome.org/Boston2008/GUIHackfest/WindowManagementAndMore The same reason we don't ship evolution *and* thunderbird! That's actually a very good example. If an user installed tbird and upgrades to intrepid, he will continue to have tbird, while a fresh intrepid installation comes with evo. I know that it doesn't fit this bug to 100%, but it demonstrates that we need to take into account user preferences for not doing things the way we intend to by default. True, we need to figure out how to coach people through changes like this, but we also should not be afraid to move people firmly in a particular direction. Full ack on this. Thank you! Martin -- Martin Pitt| http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a bug assignee. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
Martin Pitt wrote: If we drop them, we need to document two different ways for doing that, once for people having fusa, and another for people who don't. Since earlier Ubuntu releases didn't install either the logout or fusa, they don't have another way, and got used to the system menu. I think there is a simultaneous proposal to ensure that everyone gets the FUSA applet, in the right place. Mark -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a bug assignee. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
Re: [Bug 283278] Re: When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu
It would be poor to end up with multiple menu items on the panel that do the same thing. What do you suggest we can do to shift the standard behavior for folks who are used to the old way of doing it? Mark -- When FUSA applet has shutdown/logout items are duplicated in System menu https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/283278 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a bug assignee. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
