Re: Using the Unicode ellipsis (…) instead of three periods
On Mon, 2012-12-03 at 22:01 -0600, Ted Gould wrote: On Mon, 2012-12-03 at 19:09 -0500, Jeremy Bicha wrote: I think it's time that we move away from using three periods (...) to represent the ellipsis and instead use the Unicode character (…). We've been trying to do this on the Unity Indicators and I wrote a small automake fragment to test for them. It's a little bit hacky, but it works and makes sure we don't regress. I'd love for it to get used and improved in other projects. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-session/trunk.13.04/view/head:/tests/Makefile.am.strings That looks really useful! Perhaps it could get included in gnome-common and then used in GNOME projects? Philip signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Using the Unicode ellipsis (…) instead of three periods
On Mon, 2012-12-03 at 19:09 -0500, Jeremy Bicha wrote: I think it's time that we move away from using three periods (...) to represent the ellipsis and instead use the Unicode character (…). This style has already been adopted by Microsoft [1] and Apple [2]. [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/jj553415.aspx#2._Exploit_the_power_of_Unicode [2] http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/userexperience/conceptual/applehiguidelines/TextStyle/TextStyle.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP3365-TPXREF126 GTK+ has just switched to using Unicode ellipses[1], and there’s a tracker bug[2] open for the rest of the desktop. It would be great to get some momentum behind this. Philip [1]: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gtk +/commit/?id=ceb866dfe6be6d88b8f83a3cbdb8a2a688419c82 [2]: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=621639 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Using the Unicode ellipsis (…) instead of three periods
On 2012-12-04 09:08, Philip Withnall phi...@tecnocode.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 2012-12-03 at 22:01 -0600, Ted Gould wrote: On Mon, 2012-12-03 at 19:09 -0500, Jeremy Bicha wrote: I think it's time that we move away from using three periods (...) to represent the ellipsis and instead use the Unicode character (…). We've been trying to do this on the Unity Indicators and I wrote a small automake fragment to test for them. It's a little bit hacky, but it works and makes sure we don't regress. I'd love for it to get used and improved in other projects. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-session/trunk.13.04/view/head:/tests/Makefile.am.strings That looks really useful! Perhaps it could get included in gnome-common and then used in GNOME projects? Looks good to me! Ted or Philip, can you file a bug against gnome-common? If there is to be a GNOME Goal for this (and the other checks, such as ‘spaces before ellipsis’) it would be good to get gnome-common to offer some assistance. -- http://amigadave.com/ pgpfEuUkvKtR2.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Using the Unicode ellipsis (…) instead of three periods
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote: On the other hand, I think it's less clear whether we should change command line output as the single Unicode ellipsis takes up significantly less space than three periods in a monospace font. Please stick with ASCII for command line programs. When I get problems and have to use real console (no X11), the last thing I want is font problem. -- Duy ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Using the Unicode ellipsis (…) instead of three periods
On Tue, 2012-12-04 at 09:40 +, David King wrote: On 2012-12-04 09:08, Philip Withnall phi...@tecnocode.co.uk wrote: On Mon, 2012-12-03 at 22:01 -0600, Ted Gould wrote: On Mon, 2012-12-03 at 19:09 -0500, Jeremy Bicha wrote: I think it's time that we move away from using three periods (...) to represent the ellipsis and instead use the Unicode character (…). We've been trying to do this on the Unity Indicators and I wrote a small automake fragment to test for them. It's a little bit hacky, but it works and makes sure we don't regress. I'd love for it to get used and improved in other projects. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-session/trunk.13.04/view/head:/tests/Makefile.am.strings That looks really useful! Perhaps it could get included in gnome-common and then used in GNOME projects? Looks good to me! Ted or Philip, can you file a bug against gnome-common? If there is to be a GNOME Goal for this (and the other checks, such as ‘spaces before ellipsis’) it would be good to get gnome-common to offer some assistance. Filed! I’ve added Ted to the CC list. https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=689602 Philip signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: questioning gnome modulesets
Hey Jeremy, I wouldn't try to read too much meaning into the fine distinctions between various modulesets. As a first approximation, they are a means for the release team to organize the release. We could certainly move epiphany to meta-gnome-apps-tested, but it wouldn't make any difference in practice. Since you can't really ship a system without a web browser, having it in core makes some intuitive sense to me, though. Wrt to rhythmbox and banshee, thats a leftover from the 2.x time, when modules wouldn't enter the 'official' modulesets until they have been proposed - these have never been proposed, I think. They've always been part of the wider GNOME ecosystem, but not part of GNOME itself. Finally, wrt to PackageKit, it is not so much something you use as something that sits on top of what you use. There is no reason that you can't ship PackageKit in addition to whatever your native packaging system is, and get some level of packaging system GNOME integration that way. It was Ubuntu's choice not to do that... ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Using the Unicode ellipsis (…) instead of three periods
While we are talking about better use of Unicode, I've recently spent some time improving the time rendering in a few prominent places, by using the 'ratio' character instead of plain ascii : - some screenshots of the difference can be seen in bug 689184 [1]. It might be a good idea to do this consistently throughout the desktop. I only got as far as gnome-shell and gnome-clocks... Matthias [1] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=689184 ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Using the Unicode ellipsis (…) instead of three periods
Le lundi 03 décembre 2012 à 19:09 -0500, Jeremy Bicha a écrit : I think it's time that we move away from using three periods (...) to represent the ellipsis and instead use the Unicode character (…). This style has already been adopted by Microsoft [1] and Apple [2]. [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/jj553415.aspx#2._Exploit_the_power_of_Unicode [2] http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/userexperience/conceptual/applehiguidelines/TextStyle/TextStyle.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP3365-TPXREF126 On the other hand, I think it's less clear whether we should change command line output as the single Unicode ellipsis takes up significantly less space than three periods in a monospace font. The Microsoft link recommends using curly quotes instead of straight ones too. Do you think this is a valuable change too? Regards ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Using the Unicode ellipsis (…) instead of three periods
On Tue, 2012-12-04 at 06:40 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: While we are talking about better use of Unicode, I've recently spent some time improving the time rendering in a few prominent places, by using the 'ratio' character instead of plain ascii : - some screenshots of the difference can be seen in bug 689184 [1]. It might be a good idea to do this consistently throughout the desktop. I only got as far as gnome-shell and gnome-clocks... Matthias [1] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=689184 Is this really the right thing to do. Even the Microsoft page uses the rather wishy-washy Consider using the ratio symbol, as if they're not quite sure this is a good idea. It does look nicer, but it's semantically wrong. A time is not a ratio. How does Orca read it? -- Shaun ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Using the Unicode ellipsis (…) instead of three periods
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:21 AM, Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org wrote: Is this really the right thing to do. Even the Microsoft page uses the rather wishy-washy Consider using the ratio symbol, as if they're not quite sure this is a good idea. It does look nicer, but it's semantically wrong. A time is not a ratio. How does Orca read it? I don't really have an answer to the philosophical question of what a 'ratio' really is and whether 9-colon-49 is any more correct than 9-ratio-49 when it comes to representing time. But I can say that Orca reads the one like the other: nine fortynine. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Using the Unicode ellipsis (…) instead of three periods
On 4 December 2012 09:21, Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org wrote: Is this really the right thing to do. Even the Microsoft page uses the rather wishy-washy Consider using the ratio symbol, as if they're not quite sure this is a good idea. It does look nicer, but it's semantically wrong. A time is not a ratio. How does Orca read it? Colon: http://bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=230039 Ratio: http://bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=230150 The biggest difference I see is that the colon sits on the baseline while the ratio is nicely centered. I like how Android 4.2 appears to use both styles: http://i.imgur.com/y2zVX.png Jeremy ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Fwd: Reminder: FOSDEM CrossDesktop DevRoom 2013 - Call for Talks
Christophe: If CrossDesktop DevRoom is THE place for cross-desktop entente, then why have I seen no discussion about this event on any FreeDesktop mail forum? I only notice GNOME mailing lists in the current cc:list, or am I missing something? What FreeDesktop forum is even supposed to be used for announcing events and activities? Would this be freedesk...@freedesktop.org, platf...@freedesktop.org (which hasn't seen but 3 emails since 2005) or maybe distributi...@freedesktop.org? --- Brian On 12/ 4/12 09:05 AM, Christophe Fergeau wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: *Pau Garcia i Quiles* pgqui...@elpauer.org mailto:pgqui...@elpauer.org Date: 2012/11/29 Subject: Reminder: FOSDEM CrossDesktop DevRoom 2013 - Call for Talks To: x...@lists.freedesktop.org mailto:x...@lists.freedesktop.org Hello, The Call for Talks for the CrossDesktop DevRoom at FOSDEM 2013 is officially open and will close in two weeks (Dec 14th). FreeDesktop.org is THE place for cross-desktop entente, sure there is a lot of things to talk about. Please submit your talk proposals ASAP! --8--- * FOSDEM is one of the largest gatherings of Free Software contributors in the world and happens each February in Brussels (Belgium). One of the tracks will be the CrossDesktop DevRoom, which will host Desktop-related talks. We are now inviting proposals for talks about Free/Libre/Open-source Software on the topics of Desktop development, Desktop applications and interoperativity amongst Desktop Environments. This is a unique opportunity to show novel ideas and developments to a wide technical audience. Topics accepted include, but are not limited to: Enlightenment, Gnome, KDE, Unity, XFCE, Windows, Mac OS X, general desktop matters, applications that enhance desktops and web (when related to desktop). Talks can be very specific, such as developing mobile applications with Qt Quick; or as general as predictions for the fusion of Desktop and web in 5 years time. Topics that are of interest to the users and developers of all desktop environments are especially welcome. The FOSDEM 2012 schedule might give you some inspiration: https://archive.fosdem.org/2012/schedule/track/crossdesktop_devroom.html https://archive.fosdem.org/2012/schedule/track/crossdesktop_devroom.html Please include the following information when submitting a proposal: * Your name * The title of your talk (please be descriptive, as titles will be listed with around 250 from other projects) * Short abstract of one or two paragraphs * Short bio * Requested time: from 15 to 45 minutes. Normal duration is 30 minutes. Longer duration requests must be properly justified. The deadline for submissions is December 14th 2012. FOSDEM will be held on the weekend of 2-3 February 2013. Please submit your proposals to crossdesktop-devr...@lists.fosdem.org mailto:crossdesktop-devr...@lists.fosdem.org(subscribtion page for the mailing list: https://lists.fosdem.org/listinfo/crossdesktop-devroom) -- The CrossDesktop DevRoom 2013 Organization Team* --8--- -- Pau Garcia i Quiles http://www.elpauer.org (Due to my workload, I may need 10 days to answer) ___ xdg mailing list x...@lists.freedesktop.org mailto:x...@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xdg ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Using the Unicode ellipsis (…) instead of three periods
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 12:48 PM, Philip Withnall phi...@tecnocode.co.ukwrote: On Tue, 2012-12-04 at 09:51 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:21 AM, Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org wrote: Is this really the right thing to do. Even the Microsoft page uses the rather wishy-washy Consider using the ratio symbol, as if they're not quite sure this is a good idea. It does look nicer, but it's semantically wrong. A time is not a ratio. How does Orca read it? I don't really have an answer to the philosophical question of what a 'ratio' really is and whether 9-colon-49 is any more correct than 9-ratio-49 when it comes to representing time. But I can say that Orca reads the one like the other: nine fortynine. Perhaps more importantly, the ratio character behaves differently in RtL locales than the colon character does. See: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/michkap/archive/2012/02/09/10265712.aspx If I write 09:53 with a colon, it’ll remain left-to-right in RtL locales because the colon is a Unicode number separator. If I write 09∶53 with a ratio character, it’ll appear as 53∶09 in RtL locales. (Tested in gedit.) Is this the behaviour we want? Is that a rhetorical question? I think you should comment on the bug. Meg Philip ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Using the Unicode ellipsis (…) instead of three periods
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Philip Withnall phi...@tecnocode.co.uk wrote: On Tue, 2012-12-04 at 09:51 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 9:21 AM, Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org wrote: Is this really the right thing to do. Even the Microsoft page uses the rather wishy-washy Consider using the ratio symbol, as if they're not quite sure this is a good idea. It does look nicer, but it's semantically wrong. A time is not a ratio. How does Orca read it? I don't really have an answer to the philosophical question of what a 'ratio' really is and whether 9-colon-49 is any more correct than 9-ratio-49 when it comes to representing time. But I can say that Orca reads the one like the other: nine fortynine. Perhaps more importantly, the ratio character behaves differently in RtL locales than the colon character does. See: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/michkap/archive/2012/02/09/10265712.aspx If I write 09:53 with a colon, it’ll remain left-to-right in RtL locales because the colon is a Unicode number separator. If I write 09∶53 with a ratio character, it’ll appear as 53∶09 in RtL locales. (Tested in gedit.) Is this the behaviour we want? I'd say its up to the translators of each locale to say what format is most appropriate for their language. Date and time formats are translatable for a reason... ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Using the Unicode ellipsis (…) instead of three periods
On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Matthias Clasen matthias.cla...@gmail.com wrote: I'd say its up to the translators of each locale to say what format is most appropriate for their language. Date and time formats are translatable for a reason... and, to finish that thought, therefore the behavior of the en_US time format in rtl locales is not really relevant. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
