Re: Apache Cassandra Virtual meetings

[Scott Andreas]

Maybe not, but it seems important to be ready to. I’d anchored to the Google 
Meet limitation of 25 participants without an Enterprise account (which works 
in the «small-M presenters» × «large-N broadcast» model), but it’s likely that 
more than 25 would like to be able to follow.

Zoom allows up to 100 on a $15/mo plan that includes recordings, which could be 
a good fit and enables a lighter touch to moderation.

> On Aug 9, 2019, at 7:13 PM, Murukesh Mohanan  
> wrote:
> 
> Do we need to moderate heavily from the get-go, or should we implement all
> this after a couple of trial calls to see how bad things are?
> 
> On Sat, 10 Aug 2019, 08:27 Scott Andreas,  wrote:
> 
>> On the "virtual" side --
>> 
>> I've spent some time this week reviewing how the Kubernetes community
>> conducts their weekly meetings. References are at the end of this message.
>> 
>> If we'd like to hold occasional virtual meetings among the dev and user
>> community, here are some things that may help make them successful:
>> 
>> 1. Agenda: Discussed and committed on the dev list in advance, published
>> on Confluence, with speakers confirmed and topic durations assigned.
>> 2. Video Call: To be dialed into by confirmed speakers, eliminating the
>> need for heavy WebEx-style moderation, several minutes of "please mute,
>> everyone mute...," or difficulty enforcing ASF code of conduct if someone
>> joins an open call in bad faith. Google Meet appears to be free for up to
>> 25 participating / presenting in a call.
>> 3. Live stream / broadcast: Google Meet meetings can also be broadcast
>> live to YouTube and recorded for non-participating attendees to watch
>> (e.g., via EveryCord now that Hangouts on Air is discontinued). This would
>> enable a model in which a smaller number of speakers could present, with
>> anyone in the community able to join and watch live or at a later time.
>> 4. Moderation: An emcee to introduce the agenda, hold speakers to time to
>> ensure discussion on one item doesn't prevent the rest from being reached,
>> and represent community Q
>> 5. Community Q: We could conduct Q with community members via ASF
>> Slack during the call – e.g., a moderator reading questions shared via
>> Slack, answered by presenters. Text-based Q also mitigates the risk of
>> runaway "not really a question but more of a comment..." dialogue.
>> 6. Notes: As others mentioned, notes should be prepared (live or after the
>> fact) and archived on Confluence alongside the agenda.
>> 7. Decisions: Happen on the dev list, though discussion and
>> consensus-building may occur during calls like this.
>> 
>> Hosting / moderating calls like this takes planning and effort, but it
>> seems very doable if others feel it would be valuable to our dev and user
>> community. Happy to help if so.
>> 
>> – Scott
>> 
>> ---
>> 
>> References:
>> [1] Meeting doc:
>> https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/events/community-meeting.md
>> [2] Agenda:
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VQDIAB0OqiSjIHI8AWMvSdceWhnz56jNpZrLs6o7NJY/edit#heading=h.en8cy6hno0c6
>> [3] K8s Zoom Guidelines:
>> https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/communication/zoom-guidelines.md
>> [4] K8s Moderation Guidelines:
>> https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/communication/moderation.md
>> [5] Example recorded meeting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uZScaWEb08
>> 
>> On 8/9/19, 10:27 AM, "sankalp kohli"  wrote:
>> 
>>@Dinesh/Nate: Yes we need to decide on the timing and we can always
>> change
>>them as we go
>>@Joshua/Gary: We will publish notes on the mailing list. If we need to
>> make
>>a decision, we will still need to get it voted on the ML. We should not
>>have a case where someone misses the boat because they could not
>> attend one
>>of these. So ML is a big part of this.
>> 
>>Additional feedback welcome.
>> 
>>On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 6:28 AM Gary Dusbabek 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Would publishing notes to the ML be sufficient? Apache board
>> meetings work
>>> this way.
>>> 
>>> Gary.
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 4:51 PM Nate McCall 
>> wrote:
>>> 
 We can do the time mostly fair if we alternate back and forth
>> between PST
 morning and evening. This will at least let most folks attend
>> every other
 meeting.
 
 I agree with Josh's sentiment on the discussions. We can do it, we
>> just
 have to be aware of it and defer things to Jira and/or ML.
 
 On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 12:42 AM Joshua McKenzie <
>> jmcken...@apache.org>
 wrote:
 
> The one thing we need to keep in mind is the "If it didn't
>> happen on a
> mailing list, it didn't happen >> "
> philosophy of apache projects. Shouldn't constrain us too much
>> as the
> nuance is:
> 
> *"Discussions and plan proposals often happen at events, in chats
>>> (Slack,
> IRC, IM, etc.) or other synchronous places. But all final
>> decisions
>>> about

Re: Apache Cassandra Virtual meetings

[Murukesh Mohanan]

Do we need to moderate heavily from the get-go, or should we implement all
this after a couple of trial calls to see how bad things are?

On Sat, 10 Aug 2019, 08:27 Scott Andreas,  wrote:

> On the "virtual" side --
>
> I've spent some time this week reviewing how the Kubernetes community
> conducts their weekly meetings. References are at the end of this message.
>
> If we'd like to hold occasional virtual meetings among the dev and user
> community, here are some things that may help make them successful:
>
> 1. Agenda: Discussed and committed on the dev list in advance, published
> on Confluence, with speakers confirmed and topic durations assigned.
> 2. Video Call: To be dialed into by confirmed speakers, eliminating the
> need for heavy WebEx-style moderation, several minutes of "please mute,
> everyone mute...," or difficulty enforcing ASF code of conduct if someone
> joins an open call in bad faith. Google Meet appears to be free for up to
> 25 participating / presenting in a call.
> 3. Live stream / broadcast: Google Meet meetings can also be broadcast
> live to YouTube and recorded for non-participating attendees to watch
> (e.g., via EveryCord now that Hangouts on Air is discontinued). This would
> enable a model in which a smaller number of speakers could present, with
> anyone in the community able to join and watch live or at a later time.
> 4. Moderation: An emcee to introduce the agenda, hold speakers to time to
> ensure discussion on one item doesn't prevent the rest from being reached,
> and represent community Q
> 5. Community Q: We could conduct Q with community members via ASF
> Slack during the call – e.g., a moderator reading questions shared via
> Slack, answered by presenters. Text-based Q also mitigates the risk of
> runaway "not really a question but more of a comment..." dialogue.
> 6. Notes: As others mentioned, notes should be prepared (live or after the
> fact) and archived on Confluence alongside the agenda.
> 7. Decisions: Happen on the dev list, though discussion and
> consensus-building may occur during calls like this.
>
> Hosting / moderating calls like this takes planning and effort, but it
> seems very doable if others feel it would be valuable to our dev and user
> community. Happy to help if so.
>
> – Scott
>
> ---
>
> References:
> [1] Meeting doc:
> https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/events/community-meeting.md
> [2] Agenda:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VQDIAB0OqiSjIHI8AWMvSdceWhnz56jNpZrLs6o7NJY/edit#heading=h.en8cy6hno0c6
> [3] K8s Zoom Guidelines:
> https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/communication/zoom-guidelines.md
> [4] K8s Moderation Guidelines:
> https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/communication/moderation.md
> [5] Example recorded meeting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uZScaWEb08
>
> On 8/9/19, 10:27 AM, "sankalp kohli"  wrote:
>
> @Dinesh/Nate: Yes we need to decide on the timing and we can always
> change
> them as we go
> @Joshua/Gary: We will publish notes on the mailing list. If we need to
> make
> a decision, we will still need to get it voted on the ML. We should not
> have a case where someone misses the boat because they could not
> attend one
> of these. So ML is a big part of this.
>
> Additional feedback welcome.
>
> On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 6:28 AM Gary Dusbabek 
> wrote:
>
> > Would publishing notes to the ML be sufficient? Apache board
> meetings work
> > this way.
> >
> > Gary.
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 4:51 PM Nate McCall 
> wrote:
> >
> > > We can do the time mostly fair if we alternate back and forth
> between PST
> > > morning and evening. This will at least let most folks attend
> every other
> > > meeting.
> > >
> > > I agree with Josh's sentiment on the discussions. We can do it, we
> just
> > > have to be aware of it and defer things to Jira and/or ML.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 12:42 AM Joshua McKenzie <
> jmcken...@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > The one thing we need to keep in mind is the "If it didn't
> happen on a
> > > > mailing list, it didn't happen  >"
> > > > philosophy of apache projects. Shouldn't constrain us too much
> as the
> > > > nuance is:
> > > >
> > > > *"Discussions and plan proposals often happen at events, in chats
> > (Slack,
> > > > IRC, IM, etc.) or other synchronous places. But all final
> decisions
> > about
> > > > executing on the plan, checking in the new code, or launching the
> > website
> > > > must be made by the community asyncrhonously on the mailing
> list."*
> > > >
> > > > So long as we keep that in mind (and maybe push it back to 8am
> PST
> > since
> > > > 9am can get pretty ugly for some of the more eastern european /
> asian
> > > > countries), makes sense to me.
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 

Re: Apache Cassandra Virtual meetings

[Scott Andreas]

On the "virtual" side --

I've spent some time this week reviewing how the Kubernetes community conducts 
their weekly meetings. References are at the end of this message.

If we'd like to hold occasional virtual meetings among the dev and user 
community, here are some things that may help make them successful:

1. Agenda: Discussed and committed on the dev list in advance, published on 
Confluence, with speakers confirmed and topic durations assigned.
2. Video Call: To be dialed into by confirmed speakers, eliminating the need 
for heavy WebEx-style moderation, several minutes of "please mute, everyone 
mute...," or difficulty enforcing ASF code of conduct if someone joins an open 
call in bad faith. Google Meet appears to be free for up to 25 participating / 
presenting in a call.
3. Live stream / broadcast: Google Meet meetings can also be broadcast live to 
YouTube and recorded for non-participating attendees to watch (e.g., via 
EveryCord now that Hangouts on Air is discontinued). This would enable a model 
in which a smaller number of speakers could present, with anyone in the 
community able to join and watch live or at a later time.
4. Moderation: An emcee to introduce the agenda, hold speakers to time to 
ensure discussion on one item doesn't prevent the rest from being reached, and 
represent community Q
5. Community Q: We could conduct Q with community members via ASF Slack 
during the call – e.g., a moderator reading questions shared via Slack, 
answered by presenters. Text-based Q also mitigates the risk of runaway "not 
really a question but more of a comment..." dialogue.
6. Notes: As others mentioned, notes should be prepared (live or after the 
fact) and archived on Confluence alongside the agenda.
7. Decisions: Happen on the dev list, though discussion and consensus-building 
may occur during calls like this.

Hosting / moderating calls like this takes planning and effort, but it seems 
very doable if others feel it would be valuable to our dev and user community. 
Happy to help if so.

– Scott

---

References:
[1] Meeting doc: 
https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/events/community-meeting.md
[2] Agenda: 
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VQDIAB0OqiSjIHI8AWMvSdceWhnz56jNpZrLs6o7NJY/edit#heading=h.en8cy6hno0c6
[3] K8s Zoom Guidelines: 
https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/communication/zoom-guidelines.md
[4] K8s Moderation Guidelines: 
https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/communication/moderation.md
[5] Example recorded meeting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uZScaWEb08

On 8/9/19, 10:27 AM, "sankalp kohli"  wrote:

@Dinesh/Nate: Yes we need to decide on the timing and we can always change
them as we go
@Joshua/Gary: We will publish notes on the mailing list. If we need to make
a decision, we will still need to get it voted on the ML. We should not
have a case where someone misses the boat because they could not attend one
of these. So ML is a big part of this.

Additional feedback welcome.

On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 6:28 AM Gary Dusbabek  wrote:

> Would publishing notes to the ML be sufficient? Apache board meetings work
> this way.
>
> Gary.
>
> On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 4:51 PM Nate McCall  wrote:
>
> > We can do the time mostly fair if we alternate back and forth between 
PST
> > morning and evening. This will at least let most folks attend every 
other
> > meeting.
> >
> > I agree with Josh's sentiment on the discussions. We can do it, we just
> > have to be aware of it and defer things to Jira and/or ML.
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 12:42 AM Joshua McKenzie 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > The one thing we need to keep in mind is the "If it didn't happen on a
> > > mailing list, it didn't happen "
> > > philosophy of apache projects. Shouldn't constrain us too much as the
> > > nuance is:
> > >
> > > *"Discussions and plan proposals often happen at events, in chats
> (Slack,
> > > IRC, IM, etc.) or other synchronous places. But all final decisions
> about
> > > executing on the plan, checking in the new code, or launching the
> website
> > > must be made by the community asyncrhonously on the mailing list."*
> > >
> > > So long as we keep that in mind (and maybe push it back to 8am PST
> since
> > > 9am can get pretty ugly for some of the more eastern european / asian
> > > countries), makes sense to me.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 6:07 PM Dinesh Joshi  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks for initiating this conversation Sankalp. On the ASF front, I
> > > think
> > > > we need to ensure that non-Pacific time participants can also
> > participate
> > > > in the discussions. So posting the notes and opening up discussions
> > after
> > > > the meet up to dev@ would be a great way of making sure 

Re: Apache Cassandra Virtual meetings

[sankalp kohli]

@Dinesh/Nate: Yes we need to decide on the timing and we can always change
them as we go
@Joshua/Gary: We will publish notes on the mailing list. If we need to make
a decision, we will still need to get it voted on the ML. We should not
have a case where someone misses the boat because they could not attend one
of these. So ML is a big part of this.

Additional feedback welcome.

On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 6:28 AM Gary Dusbabek  wrote:

> Would publishing notes to the ML be sufficient? Apache board meetings work
> this way.
>
> Gary.
>
> On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 4:51 PM Nate McCall  wrote:
>
> > We can do the time mostly fair if we alternate back and forth between PST
> > morning and evening. This will at least let most folks attend every other
> > meeting.
> >
> > I agree with Josh's sentiment on the discussions. We can do it, we just
> > have to be aware of it and defer things to Jira and/or ML.
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 12:42 AM Joshua McKenzie 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > The one thing we need to keep in mind is the "If it didn't happen on a
> > > mailing list, it didn't happen "
> > > philosophy of apache projects. Shouldn't constrain us too much as the
> > > nuance is:
> > >
> > > *"Discussions and plan proposals often happen at events, in chats
> (Slack,
> > > IRC, IM, etc.) or other synchronous places. But all final decisions
> about
> > > executing on the plan, checking in the new code, or launching the
> website
> > > must be made by the community asyncrhonously on the mailing list."*
> > >
> > > So long as we keep that in mind (and maybe push it back to 8am PST
> since
> > > 9am can get pretty ugly for some of the more eastern european / asian
> > > countries), makes sense to me.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 6:07 PM Dinesh Joshi  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks for initiating this conversation Sankalp. On the ASF front, I
> > > think
> > > > we need to ensure that non-Pacific time participants can also
> > participate
> > > > in the discussions. So posting the notes and opening up discussions
> > after
> > > > the meet up to dev@ would be a great way of making sure everyone can
> > > > participate and gets visibility. Additionally, we should consider
> > > > scheduling this meetup in different timezones as far as logistics
> allow
> > > it.
> > > >
> > > > Dinesh
> > > >
> > > > > On Aug 6, 2019, at 2:58 PM, sankalp kohli 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > There are projects (like k8s[1]) which do regular meetings
> > > using
> > > > > video conferencing tools. We want to propose such a meeting for
> > Apache
> > > > > Cassandra once a quarter. Here are some of the initial details.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. A two hour meeting once a quarter starting at 9am Pacific. We
> can
> > > > later
> > > > > move this to other times to make it easier for other timezones.
> > > > > 2. Agenda of the meeting will be due 2 days prior to the meeting. A
> > > > sample
> > > > > agenda for next one could cover updates on 4.0 testing, any major
> > bugs
> > > > > found and/or fixed, next steps for 4.0, etc.
> > > > > 3. Each agenda item will have a time duration and list of people to
> > > drive
> > > > > that item.
> > > > > 4. We will have a moderator for each meeting which will rotate
> around
> > > the
> > > > > community members.
> > > > > 5. We need to figure out which video conferencing tool to use for
> > this.
> > > > > Suggestions and donation of tools are welcome.
> > > > > 6. We will have meeting notes for each item discussed in the
> meeting.
> > > > >
> > > > > Motivation for such a meeting
> > > > > 1. We currently have Slack, JIRA and emails however an agenda
> driven
> > > > video
> > > > > meeting can help facilitate alignment within the community.
> > > > > 2. This will give an opportunity to the community to summarize past
> > > > > progress and talk about future tasks.
> > > > > 3. Agenda notes can serve as newsletters for the community.
> > > > >
> > > > > Notes:
> > > > > 1. Does this violate any Apache rules? I could not find any rules
> but
> > > > > someone can double check
> > > > > 2. Are there any other Apache projects which do something similar?
> > > > >
> > > > > This is a proposal at this time and your feedback is greatly
> > > appreciated.
> > > > > If anyone thinks this will not help then please provide a reason.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Sankalp
> > > > > [1]
> https://github.com/kubernetes/community/tree/master/sig-storage
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: Apache Cassandra Virtual meetings

[Gary Dusbabek]

Would publishing notes to the ML be sufficient? Apache board meetings work
this way.

Gary.

On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 4:51 PM Nate McCall  wrote:

> We can do the time mostly fair if we alternate back and forth between PST
> morning and evening. This will at least let most folks attend every other
> meeting.
>
> I agree with Josh's sentiment on the discussions. We can do it, we just
> have to be aware of it and defer things to Jira and/or ML.
>
> On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 12:42 AM Joshua McKenzie 
> wrote:
>
> > The one thing we need to keep in mind is the "If it didn't happen on a
> > mailing list, it didn't happen "
> > philosophy of apache projects. Shouldn't constrain us too much as the
> > nuance is:
> >
> > *"Discussions and plan proposals often happen at events, in chats (Slack,
> > IRC, IM, etc.) or other synchronous places. But all final decisions about
> > executing on the plan, checking in the new code, or launching the website
> > must be made by the community asyncrhonously on the mailing list."*
> >
> > So long as we keep that in mind (and maybe push it back to 8am PST since
> > 9am can get pretty ugly for some of the more eastern european / asian
> > countries), makes sense to me.
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 6:07 PM Dinesh Joshi  wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks for initiating this conversation Sankalp. On the ASF front, I
> > think
> > > we need to ensure that non-Pacific time participants can also
> participate
> > > in the discussions. So posting the notes and opening up discussions
> after
> > > the meet up to dev@ would be a great way of making sure everyone can
> > > participate and gets visibility. Additionally, we should consider
> > > scheduling this meetup in different timezones as far as logistics allow
> > it.
> > >
> > > Dinesh
> > >
> > > > On Aug 6, 2019, at 2:58 PM, sankalp kohli 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi All,
> > > > There are projects (like k8s[1]) which do regular meetings
> > using
> > > > video conferencing tools. We want to propose such a meeting for
> Apache
> > > > Cassandra once a quarter. Here are some of the initial details.
> > > >
> > > > 1. A two hour meeting once a quarter starting at 9am Pacific. We can
> > > later
> > > > move this to other times to make it easier for other timezones.
> > > > 2. Agenda of the meeting will be due 2 days prior to the meeting. A
> > > sample
> > > > agenda for next one could cover updates on 4.0 testing, any major
> bugs
> > > > found and/or fixed, next steps for 4.0, etc.
> > > > 3. Each agenda item will have a time duration and list of people to
> > drive
> > > > that item.
> > > > 4. We will have a moderator for each meeting which will rotate around
> > the
> > > > community members.
> > > > 5. We need to figure out which video conferencing tool to use for
> this.
> > > > Suggestions and donation of tools are welcome.
> > > > 6. We will have meeting notes for each item discussed in the meeting.
> > > >
> > > > Motivation for such a meeting
> > > > 1. We currently have Slack, JIRA and emails however an agenda driven
> > > video
> > > > meeting can help facilitate alignment within the community.
> > > > 2. This will give an opportunity to the community to summarize past
> > > > progress and talk about future tasks.
> > > > 3. Agenda notes can serve as newsletters for the community.
> > > >
> > > > Notes:
> > > > 1. Does this violate any Apache rules? I could not find any rules but
> > > > someone can double check
> > > > 2. Are there any other Apache projects which do something similar?
> > > >
> > > > This is a proposal at this time and your feedback is greatly
> > appreciated.
> > > > If anyone thinks this will not help then please provide a reason.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Sankalp
> > > > [1] https://github.com/kubernetes/community/tree/master/sig-storage
> > >
> > >
> > > -
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@cassandra.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@cassandra.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>