Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature

[Nathan Johnson]

I have created a github issue to capture this here:

https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/issues/3096

I’m getting ready to create a PR to add this feature back in, but it will 
require adding a configuration item back.  

Should this be considered a bug and go into the 4.11.3 migration, or should it 
be added to master?  If master / 4.12?

Thanks,
Nathan


> On May 21, 2018, at 2:28 PM, Simon Weller  wrote:
> 
> yeah, I like that idea Mike.
> 
> 
> Also, I want to be clear that breaking out the backup to secondary into a 
> separate thread is a great feature, so kudos to those that developed it.  
> That along with the ability to turn it off completely makes for a nice 
> overall improvement to snapshots.
> 
> 
> - Si
> 
> 
> From: Tutkowski, Mike 
> Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2018 8:40 PM
> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
> 
> Perhaps instead of renaming the setting, we can note in its description the 
> hypervisors it currently pertains to.
> 
>> On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, Glen Baars  wrote:
>> 
>> Based on the responses, I think it is a worthy feature to be retained. Maybe 
>> the following changes?
>> 
>> Rename the setting to something like kvmxen.snapshot.primaryonly ( I have no 
>> idea of the naming scheme that Cloudstack uses )
>> Ensure the code for vmware snapshots does not get impacted by the setting
>> Record in the DB that the snapshot is only on the primary storage
>> When the create template or download template features are used, use the 
>> primary storage as the source.
>> 
>> Kind regards,
>> Glen Baars
>> 
>> -----Original Message-
>> From: Will Stevens 
>> Sent: Saturday, 19 May 2018 12:57 PM
>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
>> 
>> I think reverting the change in 4.11.1 is probably a good idea.
>> 
>> *Will Stevens*
>> Chief Technology Officer
>> c 514.826.0190
>> 
>> <https://goo.gl/NYZ8KK>
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 2:52 PM ilya musayev 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Perhaps bring it back into 4.11.1?
>>> 
>>> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 9:28 AM Suresh Kumar Anaparti <
>>> sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Si / Will,
>>>> 
>>>> That is just FYI, if anyone uses VMware with that flag set to false.
>>>> I'm neither against the feature nor telling to rip that out.
>>>> 
>>>> You are correct, the PR 2081 supports KVM and Xen as the volume
>>>> snapshots are directly supported on them and backup operation is not
>>>> tightly
>>> coupled
>>>> with the create operation.
>>>> 
>>>> -Suresh
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 7:38 PM, Simon Weller
>>>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> There are plenty of features in ACS that are particular to a
>>>>> certain hypervisor (or hypervisor set), including VMware specific items.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It was never claimed this feature worked across all hypervisors.
>>>>> In addition to that, the default was to leave the existing
>>>>> functionality exactly the way it was originally implemented and if
>>>>> a user wished to change the functionality they could via a global config 
>>>>> variable.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Your original spec for PR 2081 in confluence states that the PR
>>>>> was targeted towards KVM and Xen, so I'm confused as to why VMware
>>>>> is even being mentioned here.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is a major feature regression that a number of
>>> organizations/service
>>>>> providers are relying on and it wasn't called out when the PR was
>>>> submitted.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: Will Stevens 
>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 6:12 AM
>>>>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
>>>>> 
>>>>> Just because it does not work for VMware should not a reason to
>>>>> rip out
>>>> the
>>>>> functionality for other hypervisors where it is being used though.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I know we also have the requirement that snapshots are not
>&g

Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature

[Simon Weller]

yeah, I like that idea Mike.


Also, I want to be clear that breaking out the backup to secondary into a 
separate thread is a great feature, so kudos to those that developed it.  That 
along with the ability to turn it off completely makes for a nice overall 
improvement to snapshots.


- Si


From: Tutkowski, Mike <mike.tutkow...@netapp.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2018 8:40 PM
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature

Perhaps instead of renaming the setting, we can note in its description the 
hypervisors it currently pertains to.

> On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, Glen Baars <g...@onsitecomputers.com.au> wrote:
>
> Based on the responses, I think it is a worthy feature to be retained. Maybe 
> the following changes?
>
> Rename the setting to something like kvmxen.snapshot.primaryonly ( I have no 
> idea of the naming scheme that Cloudstack uses )
> Ensure the code for vmware snapshots does not get impacted by the setting
> Record in the DB that the snapshot is only on the primary storage
> When the create template or download template features are used, use the 
> primary storage as the source.
>
> Kind regards,
> Glen Baars
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Will Stevens <wstev...@cloudops.com>
> Sent: Saturday, 19 May 2018 12:57 PM
> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
>
> I think reverting the change in 4.11.1 is probably a good idea.
>
> *Will Stevens*
> Chief Technology Officer
> c 514.826.0190
>
> <https://goo.gl/NYZ8KK>
>
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 2:52 PM ilya musayev <ilya.mailing.li...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps bring it back into 4.11.1?
>>
>> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 9:28 AM Suresh Kumar Anaparti <
>> sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Si / Will,
>>>
>>> That is just FYI, if anyone uses VMware with that flag set to false.
>>> I'm neither against the feature nor telling to rip that out.
>>>
>>> You are correct, the PR 2081 supports KVM and Xen as the volume
>>> snapshots are directly supported on them and backup operation is not
>>> tightly
>> coupled
>>> with the create operation.
>>>
>>> -Suresh
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 7:38 PM, Simon Weller
>>> <swel...@ena.com.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There are plenty of features in ACS that are particular to a
>>>> certain hypervisor (or hypervisor set), including VMware specific items.
>>>>
>>>> It was never claimed this feature worked across all hypervisors.
>>>> In addition to that, the default was to leave the existing
>>>> functionality exactly the way it was originally implemented and if
>>>> a user wished to change the functionality they could via a global config 
>>>> variable.
>>>>
>>>> Your original spec for PR 2081 in confluence states that the PR
>>>> was targeted towards KVM and Xen, so I'm confused as to why VMware
>>>> is even being mentioned here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is a major feature regression that a number of
>> organizations/service
>>>> providers are relying on and it wasn't called out when the PR was
>>> submitted.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> From: Will Stevens <wstev...@cloudops.com>
>>>> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 6:12 AM
>>>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
>>>> Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
>>>>
>>>> Just because it does not work for VMware should not a reason to
>>>> rip out
>>> the
>>>> functionality for other hypervisors where it is being used though.
>>>>
>>>> I know we also have the requirement that snapshots are not
>> automatically
>>>> replicated to secondary storage, so this feature is useful to us.
>>>>
>>>> I don't understand the rational for removing the feature just
>>>> because
>> it
>>>> does not work on VMware.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 18, 2018, 6:27 AM Suresh Kumar Anaparti, <
>>>> sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Si,
>>>>>
>>>>> The PR# 1697 with the global setting
>>>>> *snapshot.backup.rightafter** -
>>>>> false* doesn't
>>>>> work for VMware as create snapshot never takes a snapshot in
>>

Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature

[Tutkowski, Mike]

Perhaps instead of renaming the setting, we can note in its description the 
hypervisors it currently pertains to.

> On May 19, 2018, at 7:03 PM, Glen Baars <g...@onsitecomputers.com.au> wrote:
> 
> Based on the responses, I think it is a worthy feature to be retained. Maybe 
> the following changes?
> 
> Rename the setting to something like kvmxen.snapshot.primaryonly ( I have no 
> idea of the naming scheme that Cloudstack uses )
> Ensure the code for vmware snapshots does not get impacted by the setting
> Record in the DB that the snapshot is only on the primary storage
> When the create template or download template features are used, use the 
> primary storage as the source.
> 
> Kind regards,
> Glen Baars
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Will Stevens <wstev...@cloudops.com>
> Sent: Saturday, 19 May 2018 12:57 PM
> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
> 
> I think reverting the change in 4.11.1 is probably a good idea.
> 
> *Will Stevens*
> Chief Technology Officer
> c 514.826.0190
> 
> <https://goo.gl/NYZ8KK>
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 2:52 PM ilya musayev <ilya.mailing.li...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Perhaps bring it back into 4.11.1?
>> 
>> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 9:28 AM Suresh Kumar Anaparti <
>> sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Si / Will,
>>> 
>>> That is just FYI, if anyone uses VMware with that flag set to false.
>>> I'm neither against the feature nor telling to rip that out.
>>> 
>>> You are correct, the PR 2081 supports KVM and Xen as the volume
>>> snapshots are directly supported on them and backup operation is not
>>> tightly
>> coupled
>>> with the create operation.
>>> 
>>> -Suresh
>>> 
>>> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 7:38 PM, Simon Weller
>>> <swel...@ena.com.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> There are plenty of features in ACS that are particular to a
>>>> certain hypervisor (or hypervisor set), including VMware specific items.
>>>> 
>>>> It was never claimed this feature worked across all hypervisors.
>>>> In addition to that, the default was to leave the existing
>>>> functionality exactly the way it was originally implemented and if
>>>> a user wished to change the functionality they could via a global config 
>>>> variable.
>>>> 
>>>> Your original spec for PR 2081 in confluence states that the PR
>>>> was targeted towards KVM and Xen, so I'm confused as to why VMware
>>>> is even being mentioned here.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> This is a major feature regression that a number of
>> organizations/service
>>>> providers are relying on and it wasn't called out when the PR was
>>> submitted.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: Will Stevens <wstev...@cloudops.com>
>>>> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 6:12 AM
>>>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
>>>> Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
>>>> 
>>>> Just because it does not work for VMware should not a reason to
>>>> rip out
>>> the
>>>> functionality for other hypervisors where it is being used though.
>>>> 
>>>> I know we also have the requirement that snapshots are not
>> automatically
>>>> replicated to secondary storage, so this feature is useful to us.
>>>> 
>>>> I don't understand the rational for removing the feature just
>>>> because
>> it
>>>> does not work on VMware.
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, May 18, 2018, 6:27 AM Suresh Kumar Anaparti, <
>>>> sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Si,
>>>>> 
>>>>> The PR# 1697 with the global setting
>>>>> *snapshot.backup.rightafter** -
>>>>> false* doesn't
>>>>> work for VMware as create snapshot never takes a snapshot in
>>>>> Primary
>>>> pool,
>>>>> it just returns the snapshot uuid. The backup snapshot does the
>>> complete
>>>>> job - creates a VM snapshot with the uuid, extracts and exports
>>>>> the
>>>> target
>>>>> volume to secondary. On demand backup snapshot doesn't work as
>>>>> there
>> is
>>>> no
>>>>> snapshot in primary. Also,

RE: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature

[Glen Baars]

Based on the responses, I think it is a worthy feature to be retained. Maybe 
the following changes?

Rename the setting to something like kvmxen.snapshot.primaryonly ( I have no 
idea of the naming scheme that Cloudstack uses )
Ensure the code for vmware snapshots does not get impacted by the setting
Record in the DB that the snapshot is only on the primary storage
When the create template or download template features are used, use the 
primary storage as the source.

Kind regards,
Glen Baars

-Original Message-
From: Will Stevens <wstev...@cloudops.com>
Sent: Saturday, 19 May 2018 12:57 PM
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature

I think reverting the change in 4.11.1 is probably a good idea.

*Will Stevens*
Chief Technology Officer
c 514.826.0190

<https://goo.gl/NYZ8KK>


On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 2:52 PM ilya musayev <ilya.mailing.li...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Perhaps bring it back into 4.11.1?
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 9:28 AM Suresh Kumar Anaparti <
> sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Si / Will,
> >
> > That is just FYI, if anyone uses VMware with that flag set to false.
> > I'm neither against the feature nor telling to rip that out.
> >
> > You are correct, the PR 2081 supports KVM and Xen as the volume
> > snapshots are directly supported on them and backup operation is not
> > tightly
> coupled
> > with the create operation.
> >
> > -Suresh
> >
> > On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 7:38 PM, Simon Weller
> > <swel...@ena.com.invalid>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > There are plenty of features in ACS that are particular to a
> > > certain hypervisor (or hypervisor set), including VMware specific items.
> > >
> > > It was never claimed this feature worked across all hypervisors.
> > > In addition to that, the default was to leave the existing
> > > functionality exactly the way it was originally implemented and if
> > > a user wished to change the functionality they could via a global config 
> > > variable.
> > >
> > > Your original spec for PR 2081 in confluence states that the PR
> > > was targeted towards KVM and Xen, so I'm confused as to why VMware
> > > is even being mentioned here.
> > >
> > >
> > > This is a major feature regression that a number of
> organizations/service
> > > providers are relying on and it wasn't called out when the PR was
> > submitted.
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > > From: Will Stevens <wstev...@cloudops.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 6:12 AM
> > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
> > >
> > > Just because it does not work for VMware should not a reason to
> > > rip out
> > the
> > > functionality for other hypervisors where it is being used though.
> > >
> > > I know we also have the requirement that snapshots are not
> automatically
> > > replicated to secondary storage, so this feature is useful to us.
> > >
> > > I don't understand the rational for removing the feature just
> > > because
> it
> > > does not work on VMware.
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 18, 2018, 6:27 AM Suresh Kumar Anaparti, <
> > > sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Si,
> > > >
> > > > The PR# 1697 with the global setting
> > > > *snapshot.backup.rightafter** -
> > > > false* doesn't
> > > > work for VMware as create snapshot never takes a snapshot in
> > > > Primary
> > > pool,
> > > > it just returns the snapshot uuid. The backup snapshot does the
> > complete
> > > > job - creates a VM snapshot with the uuid, extracts and exports
> > > > the
> > > target
> > > > volume to secondary. On demand backup snapshot doesn't work as
> > > > there
> is
> > > no
> > > > snapshot in primary. Also, there'll be only one entry with
> > > > Primary
> > store
> > > > role in snapshot_store_ref, which is the latest snapshot taken
> > > > for
> that
> > > > volume.
> > > >
> > > > -Suresh
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 1:03 AM, Simon Weller
> <swel...@ena.com.invalid
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The whole point of the original PR was to optionally disable
> > > > > this fun

Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature

[Will Stevens]

I think reverting the change in 4.11.1 is probably a good idea.

*Will Stevens*
Chief Technology Officer
c 514.826.0190

<https://goo.gl/NYZ8KK>


On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 2:52 PM ilya musayev <ilya.mailing.li...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Perhaps bring it back into 4.11.1?
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 9:28 AM Suresh Kumar Anaparti <
> sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Si / Will,
> >
> > That is just FYI, if anyone uses VMware with that flag set to false. I'm
> > neither against the feature nor telling to rip that out.
> >
> > You are correct, the PR 2081 supports KVM and Xen as the volume snapshots
> > are directly supported on them and backup operation is not tightly
> coupled
> > with the create operation.
> >
> > -Suresh
> >
> > On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 7:38 PM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com.invalid>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > There are plenty of features in ACS that are particular to a certain
> > > hypervisor (or hypervisor set), including VMware specific items.
> > >
> > > It was never claimed this feature worked across all hypervisors. In
> > > addition to that, the default was to leave the existing functionality
> > > exactly the way it was originally implemented and if a user wished to
> > > change the functionality they could via a global config variable.
> > >
> > > Your original spec for PR 2081 in confluence states that the PR was
> > > targeted towards KVM and Xen, so I'm confused as to why VMware is even
> > > being mentioned here.
> > >
> > >
> > > This is a major feature regression that a number of
> organizations/service
> > > providers are relying on and it wasn't called out when the PR was
> > submitted.
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > > From: Will Stevens <wstev...@cloudops.com>
> > > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 6:12 AM
> > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
> > >
> > > Just because it does not work for VMware should not a reason to rip out
> > the
> > > functionality for other hypervisors where it is being used though.
> > >
> > > I know we also have the requirement that snapshots are not
> automatically
> > > replicated to secondary storage, so this feature is useful to us.
> > >
> > > I don't understand the rational for removing the feature just because
> it
> > > does not work on VMware.
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 18, 2018, 6:27 AM Suresh Kumar Anaparti, <
> > > sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Si,
> > > >
> > > > The PR# 1697 with the global setting *snapshot.backup.rightafter** -
> > > > false* doesn't
> > > > work for VMware as create snapshot never takes a snapshot in Primary
> > > pool,
> > > > it just returns the snapshot uuid. The backup snapshot does the
> > complete
> > > > job - creates a VM snapshot with the uuid, extracts and exports the
> > > target
> > > > volume to secondary. On demand backup snapshot doesn't work as there
> is
> > > no
> > > > snapshot in primary. Also, there'll be only one entry with Primary
> > store
> > > > role in snapshot_store_ref, which is the latest snapshot taken for
> that
> > > > volume.
> > > >
> > > > -Suresh
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 1:03 AM, Simon Weller
> <swel...@ena.com.invalid
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The whole point of the original PR was to optionally disable this
> > > > > functionality.
> > > > >
> > > > > We don't expose views of the backup state to our customers (we have
> > our
> > > > > own customer interfaces) and it's a large waste of space for us to
> be
> > > > > backing up tons of VM images when we have a solid primary storage
> > > > > infrastructure that already has lots of resiliency.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I guess we're going to have to revisit this again before we can
> > > consider
> > > > > rebasing on 4.11.
> > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > From: Suresh Kumar Anaparti <sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com>
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 2:21 PM
> > > > > To: dev

Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature

[ilya musayev]

Perhaps bring it back into 4.11.1?

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 9:28 AM Suresh Kumar Anaparti <
sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Si / Will,
>
> That is just FYI, if anyone uses VMware with that flag set to false. I'm
> neither against the feature nor telling to rip that out.
>
> You are correct, the PR 2081 supports KVM and Xen as the volume snapshots
> are directly supported on them and backup operation is not tightly coupled
> with the create operation.
>
> -Suresh
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 7:38 PM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > There are plenty of features in ACS that are particular to a certain
> > hypervisor (or hypervisor set), including VMware specific items.
> >
> > It was never claimed this feature worked across all hypervisors. In
> > addition to that, the default was to leave the existing functionality
> > exactly the way it was originally implemented and if a user wished to
> > change the functionality they could via a global config variable.
> >
> > Your original spec for PR 2081 in confluence states that the PR was
> > targeted towards KVM and Xen, so I'm confused as to why VMware is even
> > being mentioned here.
> >
> >
> > This is a major feature regression that a number of organizations/service
> > providers are relying on and it wasn't called out when the PR was
> submitted.
> >
> >
> > ________
> > From: Will Stevens <wstev...@cloudops.com>
> > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 6:12 AM
> > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
> >
> > Just because it does not work for VMware should not a reason to rip out
> the
> > functionality for other hypervisors where it is being used though.
> >
> > I know we also have the requirement that snapshots are not automatically
> > replicated to secondary storage, so this feature is useful to us.
> >
> > I don't understand the rational for removing the feature just because it
> > does not work on VMware.
> >
> > On Fri, May 18, 2018, 6:27 AM Suresh Kumar Anaparti, <
> > sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Si,
> > >
> > > The PR# 1697 with the global setting *snapshot.backup.rightafter** -
> > > false* doesn't
> > > work for VMware as create snapshot never takes a snapshot in Primary
> > pool,
> > > it just returns the snapshot uuid. The backup snapshot does the
> complete
> > > job - creates a VM snapshot with the uuid, extracts and exports the
> > target
> > > volume to secondary. On demand backup snapshot doesn't work as there is
> > no
> > > snapshot in primary. Also, there'll be only one entry with Primary
> store
> > > role in snapshot_store_ref, which is the latest snapshot taken for that
> > > volume.
> > >
> > > -Suresh
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 1:03 AM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com.invalid
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > The whole point of the original PR was to optionally disable this
> > > > functionality.
> > > >
> > > > We don't expose views of the backup state to our customers (we have
> our
> > > > own customer interfaces) and it's a large waste of space for us to be
> > > > backing up tons of VM images when we have a solid primary storage
> > > > infrastructure that already has lots of resiliency.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I guess we're going to have to revisit this again before we can
> > consider
> > > > rebasing on 4.11.
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > From: Suresh Kumar Anaparti <sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 2:21 PM
> > > > To: dev
> > > > Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
> > > >
> > > > Hi Si,
> > > >
> > > > No. not possible to disable the backup to secondary. It copies the
> > volume
> > > > snapshot to secondary in a background thread using asyncBackup param
> > (set
> > > > to true) and allows other operations during that time.
> > > >
> > > > I understand that the backup was on demand when any operations are
> > > > performed on the snapshot. But, backup during that time may take
> > > > considerable time (depending on the snapshot size and the network
> > > > bandwidth), which can result in the job timeout a

Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature

[Suresh Kumar Anaparti]

Si / Will,

That is just FYI, if anyone uses VMware with that flag set to false. I'm
neither against the feature nor telling to rip that out.

You are correct, the PR 2081 supports KVM and Xen as the volume snapshots
are directly supported on them and backup operation is not tightly coupled
with the create operation.

-Suresh

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 7:38 PM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com.invalid>
wrote:

> There are plenty of features in ACS that are particular to a certain
> hypervisor (or hypervisor set), including VMware specific items.
>
> It was never claimed this feature worked across all hypervisors. In
> addition to that, the default was to leave the existing functionality
> exactly the way it was originally implemented and if a user wished to
> change the functionality they could via a global config variable.
>
> Your original spec for PR 2081 in confluence states that the PR was
> targeted towards KVM and Xen, so I'm confused as to why VMware is even
> being mentioned here.
>
>
> This is a major feature regression that a number of organizations/service
> providers are relying on and it wasn't called out when the PR was submitted.
>
>
> 
> From: Will Stevens <wstev...@cloudops.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 6:12 AM
> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
>
> Just because it does not work for VMware should not a reason to rip out the
> functionality for other hypervisors where it is being used though.
>
> I know we also have the requirement that snapshots are not automatically
> replicated to secondary storage, so this feature is useful to us.
>
> I don't understand the rational for removing the feature just because it
> does not work on VMware.
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2018, 6:27 AM Suresh Kumar Anaparti, <
> sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Si,
> >
> > The PR# 1697 with the global setting *snapshot.backup.rightafter** -
> > false* doesn't
> > work for VMware as create snapshot never takes a snapshot in Primary
> pool,
> > it just returns the snapshot uuid. The backup snapshot does the complete
> > job - creates a VM snapshot with the uuid, extracts and exports the
> target
> > volume to secondary. On demand backup snapshot doesn't work as there is
> no
> > snapshot in primary. Also, there'll be only one entry with Primary store
> > role in snapshot_store_ref, which is the latest snapshot taken for that
> > volume.
> >
> > -Suresh
> >
> > On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 1:03 AM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com.invalid>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > The whole point of the original PR was to optionally disable this
> > > functionality.
> > >
> > > We don't expose views of the backup state to our customers (we have our
> > > own customer interfaces) and it's a large waste of space for us to be
> > > backing up tons of VM images when we have a solid primary storage
> > > infrastructure that already has lots of resiliency.
> > >
> > >
> > > I guess we're going to have to revisit this again before we can
> consider
> > > rebasing on 4.11.
> > >
> > > 
> > > From: Suresh Kumar Anaparti <sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 2:21 PM
> > > To: dev
> > > Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
> > >
> > > Hi Si,
> > >
> > > No. not possible to disable the backup to secondary. It copies the
> volume
> > > snapshot to secondary in a background thread using asyncBackup param
> (set
> > > to true) and allows other operations during that time.
> > >
> > > I understand that the backup was on demand when any operations are
> > > performed on the snapshot. But, backup during that time may take
> > > considerable time (depending on the snapshot size and the network
> > > bandwidth), which can result in the job timeout and the User may assume
> > > that it is already Backed up based on its state, unless it is
> documented.
> > >
> > > -Suresh
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 12:23 AM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com.invalid
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Suresh,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > With this new merged  PR, is it possible to disable the backup to
> > > > secondary completely? I can't tell from the reference spec and we're
> > not
> > > on
> > > > a 4.10/4.11 base yet.
> > > >
> > > > 

Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature

[Simon Weller]

There are plenty of features in ACS that are particular to a certain hypervisor 
(or hypervisor set), including VMware specific items.

It was never claimed this feature worked across all hypervisors. In addition to 
that, the default was to leave the existing functionality exactly the way it 
was originally implemented and if a user wished to change the functionality 
they could via a global config variable.

Your original spec for PR 2081 in confluence states that the PR was targeted 
towards KVM and Xen, so I'm confused as to why VMware is even being mentioned 
here.


This is a major feature regression that a number of organizations/service 
providers are relying on and it wasn't called out when the PR was submitted.



From: Will Stevens <wstev...@cloudops.com>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 6:12 AM
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature

Just because it does not work for VMware should not a reason to rip out the
functionality for other hypervisors where it is being used though.

I know we also have the requirement that snapshots are not automatically
replicated to secondary storage, so this feature is useful to us.

I don't understand the rational for removing the feature just because it
does not work on VMware.

On Fri, May 18, 2018, 6:27 AM Suresh Kumar Anaparti, <
sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Si,
>
> The PR# 1697 with the global setting *snapshot.backup.rightafter** -
> false* doesn't
> work for VMware as create snapshot never takes a snapshot in Primary pool,
> it just returns the snapshot uuid. The backup snapshot does the complete
> job - creates a VM snapshot with the uuid, extracts and exports the target
> volume to secondary. On demand backup snapshot doesn't work as there is no
> snapshot in primary. Also, there'll be only one entry with Primary store
> role in snapshot_store_ref, which is the latest snapshot taken for that
> volume.
>
> -Suresh
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 1:03 AM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > The whole point of the original PR was to optionally disable this
> > functionality.
> >
> > We don't expose views of the backup state to our customers (we have our
> > own customer interfaces) and it's a large waste of space for us to be
> > backing up tons of VM images when we have a solid primary storage
> > infrastructure that already has lots of resiliency.
> >
> >
> > I guess we're going to have to revisit this again before we can consider
> > rebasing on 4.11.
> >
> > ____
> > From: Suresh Kumar Anaparti <sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 2:21 PM
> > To: dev
> > Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
> >
> > Hi Si,
> >
> > No. not possible to disable the backup to secondary. It copies the volume
> > snapshot to secondary in a background thread using asyncBackup param (set
> > to true) and allows other operations during that time.
> >
> > I understand that the backup was on demand when any operations are
> > performed on the snapshot. But, backup during that time may take
> > considerable time (depending on the snapshot size and the network
> > bandwidth), which can result in the job timeout and the User may assume
> > that it is already Backed up based on its state, unless it is documented.
> >
> > -Suresh
> >
> > On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 12:23 AM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com.invalid>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Suresh,
> > >
> > >
> > > With this new merged  PR, is it possible to disable the backup to
> > > secondary completely? I can't tell from the reference spec and we're
> not
> > on
> > > a 4.10/4.11 base yet.
> > >
> > > For the record, in the instances where a volume or template from
> snapshot
> > > was required, the backup image was copied on demand to secondary.
> > >
> > > In an ideal world, secondary storage wouldn't even be involved in most
> of
> > > these options, instead using the native clone features of the
> underlying
> > > storage.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Si
> > >
> > > 
> > > From: Suresh Kumar Anaparti <sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 1:37 PM
> > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > Cc: Nathan Johnson
> > > Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
> > >
> > > Hi Glen / Si,
> > >
> > > In PR# 1697, the global setting *snapshot.backup.rightafter

Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature

[Will Stevens]

Just because it does not work for VMware should not a reason to rip out the
functionality for other hypervisors where it is being used though.

I know we also have the requirement that snapshots are not automatically
replicated to secondary storage, so this feature is useful to us.

I don't understand the rational for removing the feature just because it
does not work on VMware.

On Fri, May 18, 2018, 6:27 AM Suresh Kumar Anaparti, <
sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Si,
>
> The PR# 1697 with the global setting *snapshot.backup.rightafter** -
> false* doesn't
> work for VMware as create snapshot never takes a snapshot in Primary pool,
> it just returns the snapshot uuid. The backup snapshot does the complete
> job - creates a VM snapshot with the uuid, extracts and exports the target
> volume to secondary. On demand backup snapshot doesn't work as there is no
> snapshot in primary. Also, there'll be only one entry with Primary store
> role in snapshot_store_ref, which is the latest snapshot taken for that
> volume.
>
> -Suresh
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 1:03 AM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > The whole point of the original PR was to optionally disable this
> > functionality.
> >
> > We don't expose views of the backup state to our customers (we have our
> > own customer interfaces) and it's a large waste of space for us to be
> > backing up tons of VM images when we have a solid primary storage
> > infrastructure that already has lots of resiliency.
> >
> >
> > I guess we're going to have to revisit this again before we can consider
> > rebasing on 4.11.
> >
> > ____
> > From: Suresh Kumar Anaparti <sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 2:21 PM
> > To: dev
> > Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
> >
> > Hi Si,
> >
> > No. not possible to disable the backup to secondary. It copies the volume
> > snapshot to secondary in a background thread using asyncBackup param (set
> > to true) and allows other operations during that time.
> >
> > I understand that the backup was on demand when any operations are
> > performed on the snapshot. But, backup during that time may take
> > considerable time (depending on the snapshot size and the network
> > bandwidth), which can result in the job timeout and the User may assume
> > that it is already Backed up based on its state, unless it is documented.
> >
> > -Suresh
> >
> > On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 12:23 AM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com.invalid>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Suresh,
> > >
> > >
> > > With this new merged  PR, is it possible to disable the backup to
> > > secondary completely? I can't tell from the reference spec and we're
> not
> > on
> > > a 4.10/4.11 base yet.
> > >
> > > For the record, in the instances where a volume or template from
> snapshot
> > > was required, the backup image was copied on demand to secondary.
> > >
> > > In an ideal world, secondary storage wouldn't even be involved in most
> of
> > > these options, instead using the native clone features of the
> underlying
> > > storage.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Si
> > >
> > > 
> > > From: Suresh Kumar Anaparti <sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 1:37 PM
> > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > Cc: Nathan Johnson
> > > Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
> > >
> > > Hi Glen / Si,
> > >
> > > In PR# 1697, the global setting *snapshot.backup.rightafter* if set to
> > > true, it'll be the default behaviour and snapshot is copied to the
> > > secondary storage. If set to false, then the snapshot state transitions
> > are
> > > mocked and Snapshot would be in BackedUp state even though it is not
> > really
> > > in Secondary storage, which doesn't make sense. Also, that will enable
> to
> > > create a volume or template from the snapshot, which will obviously
> fail.
> > >
> > > This behavior was changed with the PR
> > > https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/pull/2081. There is a clear
> > > separation
> > > of create and backup volume snapshot operations. The global setting
> > > *snapshot.backup.rightafter* has been removed in PR# 2081.
> > >
> > > -Suresh
> > >
> > > On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 8:40 PM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena

Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature

[Suresh Kumar Anaparti]

Si,

The PR# 1697 with the global setting *snapshot.backup.rightafter** -
false* doesn't
work for VMware as create snapshot never takes a snapshot in Primary pool,
it just returns the snapshot uuid. The backup snapshot does the complete
job - creates a VM snapshot with the uuid, extracts and exports the target
volume to secondary. On demand backup snapshot doesn't work as there is no
snapshot in primary. Also, there'll be only one entry with Primary store
role in snapshot_store_ref, which is the latest snapshot taken for that
volume.

-Suresh

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 1:03 AM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com.invalid>
wrote:

> The whole point of the original PR was to optionally disable this
> functionality.
>
> We don't expose views of the backup state to our customers (we have our
> own customer interfaces) and it's a large waste of space for us to be
> backing up tons of VM images when we have a solid primary storage
> infrastructure that already has lots of resiliency.
>
>
> I guess we're going to have to revisit this again before we can consider
> rebasing on 4.11.
>
> 
> From: Suresh Kumar Anaparti <sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 2:21 PM
> To: dev
> Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
>
> Hi Si,
>
> No. not possible to disable the backup to secondary. It copies the volume
> snapshot to secondary in a background thread using asyncBackup param (set
> to true) and allows other operations during that time.
>
> I understand that the backup was on demand when any operations are
> performed on the snapshot. But, backup during that time may take
> considerable time (depending on the snapshot size and the network
> bandwidth), which can result in the job timeout and the User may assume
> that it is already Backed up based on its state, unless it is documented.
>
> -Suresh
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 12:23 AM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > Suresh,
> >
> >
> > With this new merged  PR, is it possible to disable the backup to
> > secondary completely? I can't tell from the reference spec and we're not
> on
> > a 4.10/4.11 base yet.
> >
> > For the record, in the instances where a volume or template from snapshot
> > was required, the backup image was copied on demand to secondary.
> >
> > In an ideal world, secondary storage wouldn't even be involved in most of
> > these options, instead using the native clone features of the underlying
> > storage.
> >
> >
> > - Si
> >
> > ________
> > From: Suresh Kumar Anaparti <sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 1:37 PM
> > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > Cc: Nathan Johnson
> > Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
> >
> > Hi Glen / Si,
> >
> > In PR# 1697, the global setting *snapshot.backup.rightafter* if set to
> > true, it'll be the default behaviour and snapshot is copied to the
> > secondary storage. If set to false, then the snapshot state transitions
> are
> > mocked and Snapshot would be in BackedUp state even though it is not
> really
> > in Secondary storage, which doesn't make sense. Also, that will enable to
> > create a volume or template from the snapshot, which will obviously fail.
> >
> > This behavior was changed with the PR
> > https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/pull/2081. There is a clear
> > separation
> > of create and backup volume snapshot operations. The global setting
> > *snapshot.backup.rightafter* has been removed in PR# 2081.
> >
> > -Suresh
> >
> > On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 8:40 PM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com.invalid>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Glen,
> > >
> > >
> > > This feature was implemented in 4.9 by my colleague Nathan Johnson.
> You
> > > enable it by changing the global setting  snapshot.backup.rightafter to
> > > false.
> > >
> > >
> > > The PR is reference here: https://github.com/apache/
> cloudstack/pull/1697
> > >
> > >
> > > We have the exact same use case as you, as we also use Ceph.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Si
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > > From: Glen Baars <g...@onsitecomputers.com.au>
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 9:46 AM
> > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > Subject: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Devs,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> 

Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature

[Simon Weller]

The whole point of the original PR was to optionally disable this functionality.

We don't expose views of the backup state to our customers (we have our own 
customer interfaces) and it's a large waste of space for us to be backing up 
tons of VM images when we have a solid primary storage infrastructure that 
already has lots of resiliency.


I guess we're going to have to revisit this again before we can consider 
rebasing on 4.11.


From: Suresh Kumar Anaparti <sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 2:21 PM
To: dev
Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature

Hi Si,

No. not possible to disable the backup to secondary. It copies the volume
snapshot to secondary in a background thread using asyncBackup param (set
to true) and allows other operations during that time.

I understand that the backup was on demand when any operations are
performed on the snapshot. But, backup during that time may take
considerable time (depending on the snapshot size and the network
bandwidth), which can result in the job timeout and the User may assume
that it is already Backed up based on its state, unless it is documented.

-Suresh

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 12:23 AM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com.invalid>
wrote:

> Suresh,
>
>
> With this new merged  PR, is it possible to disable the backup to
> secondary completely? I can't tell from the reference spec and we're not on
> a 4.10/4.11 base yet.
>
> For the record, in the instances where a volume or template from snapshot
> was required, the backup image was copied on demand to secondary.
>
> In an ideal world, secondary storage wouldn't even be involved in most of
> these options, instead using the native clone features of the underlying
> storage.
>
>
> - Si
>
> 
> From: Suresh Kumar Anaparti <sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 1:37 PM
> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> Cc: Nathan Johnson
> Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
>
> Hi Glen / Si,
>
> In PR# 1697, the global setting *snapshot.backup.rightafter* if set to
> true, it'll be the default behaviour and snapshot is copied to the
> secondary storage. If set to false, then the snapshot state transitions are
> mocked and Snapshot would be in BackedUp state even though it is not really
> in Secondary storage, which doesn't make sense. Also, that will enable to
> create a volume or template from the snapshot, which will obviously fail.
>
> This behavior was changed with the PR
> https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/pull/2081. There is a clear
> separation
> of create and backup volume snapshot operations. The global setting
> *snapshot.backup.rightafter* has been removed in PR# 2081.
>
> -Suresh
>
> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 8:40 PM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > Glen,
> >
> >
> > This feature was implemented in 4.9 by my colleague Nathan Johnson.  You
> > enable it by changing the global setting  snapshot.backup.rightafter to
> > false.
> >
> >
> > The PR is reference here: https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/pull/1697
> >
> >
> > We have the exact same use case as you, as we also use Ceph.
> >
> >
> > - Si
> >
> >
> > 
> > From: Glen Baars <g...@onsitecomputers.com.au>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 9:46 AM
> > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > Subject: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
> >
> >
> > Hello Devs,
> >
> >
> >
> > I have been thinking about a feature request and want to see what people
> > think about the use case.
> >
> >
> >
> > We use KVM + Ceph RBD as storage.
> >
> >
> >
> > Currently, when a client takes a snapshot, Cloudstack takes a Ceph
> > snapshot and then uses qemu-img to export to secondary storage. This
> > creates a full backup of the server. Clients want to use this as a daily
> > snapshot and it isn’t feasible due to the space requirements.
> >
> >
> >
> > We would like create the snapshot only on primary storage. It is
> > replicated offsite and fault tolerant. I can see that the download
> snapshot
> > and create template features may be an issue.
> >
> >
> >
> > I have seen the below features in the recent releases and wondered if
> this
> > was the direction that the development was going.
> >
> > Separation of volume snapshot creation on primary storage and backing
> > operation on secondary storage.
> >
> > Bypass secondary storage template copy/transfer for KVM.
> >
&

Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature

[Will Stevens]

PLD, please review.  We also need the backup to secondary to be optional/on
demand for our latest implementation plans.

*Will Stevens*
Chief Technology Officer
c 514.826.0190

<https://goo.gl/NYZ8KK>


On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 3:22 PM Suresh Kumar Anaparti <
sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Si,
>
> No. not possible to disable the backup to secondary. It copies the volume
> snapshot to secondary in a background thread using asyncBackup param (set
> to true) and allows other operations during that time.
>
> I understand that the backup was on demand when any operations are
> performed on the snapshot. But, backup during that time may take
> considerable time (depending on the snapshot size and the network
> bandwidth), which can result in the job timeout and the User may assume
> that it is already Backed up based on its state, unless it is documented.
>
> -Suresh
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 12:23 AM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > Suresh,
> >
> >
> > With this new merged  PR, is it possible to disable the backup to
> > secondary completely? I can't tell from the reference spec and we're not
> on
> > a 4.10/4.11 base yet.
> >
> > For the record, in the instances where a volume or template from snapshot
> > was required, the backup image was copied on demand to secondary.
> >
> > In an ideal world, secondary storage wouldn't even be involved in most of
> > these options, instead using the native clone features of the underlying
> > storage.
> >
> >
> > - Si
> >
> > 
> > From: Suresh Kumar Anaparti <sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 1:37 PM
> > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > Cc: Nathan Johnson
> > Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
> >
> > Hi Glen / Si,
> >
> > In PR# 1697, the global setting *snapshot.backup.rightafter* if set to
> > true, it'll be the default behaviour and snapshot is copied to the
> > secondary storage. If set to false, then the snapshot state transitions
> are
> > mocked and Snapshot would be in BackedUp state even though it is not
> really
> > in Secondary storage, which doesn't make sense. Also, that will enable to
> > create a volume or template from the snapshot, which will obviously fail.
> >
> > This behavior was changed with the PR
> > https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/pull/2081. There is a clear
> > separation
> > of create and backup volume snapshot operations. The global setting
> > *snapshot.backup.rightafter* has been removed in PR# 2081.
> >
> > -Suresh
> >
> > On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 8:40 PM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com.invalid>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Glen,
> > >
> > >
> > > This feature was implemented in 4.9 by my colleague Nathan Johnson.
> You
> > > enable it by changing the global setting  snapshot.backup.rightafter to
> > > false.
> > >
> > >
> > > The PR is reference here:
> https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/pull/1697
> > >
> > >
> > > We have the exact same use case as you, as we also use Ceph.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Si
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > > From: Glen Baars <g...@onsitecomputers.com.au>
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 9:46 AM
> > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > > Subject: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Devs,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have been thinking about a feature request and want to see what
> people
> > > think about the use case.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We use KVM + Ceph RBD as storage.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Currently, when a client takes a snapshot, Cloudstack takes a Ceph
> > > snapshot and then uses qemu-img to export to secondary storage. This
> > > creates a full backup of the server. Clients want to use this as a
> daily
> > > snapshot and it isn’t feasible due to the space requirements.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We would like create the snapshot only on primary storage. It is
> > > replicated offsite and fault tolerant. I can see that the download
> > snapshot
> > > and create template features may be an issue.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have seen the below features in the recent releases and wondered if
> > this
&

Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature

[Suresh Kumar Anaparti]

Hi Si,

No. not possible to disable the backup to secondary. It copies the volume
snapshot to secondary in a background thread using asyncBackup param (set
to true) and allows other operations during that time.

I understand that the backup was on demand when any operations are
performed on the snapshot. But, backup during that time may take
considerable time (depending on the snapshot size and the network
bandwidth), which can result in the job timeout and the User may assume
that it is already Backed up based on its state, unless it is documented.

-Suresh

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 12:23 AM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com.invalid>
wrote:

> Suresh,
>
>
> With this new merged  PR, is it possible to disable the backup to
> secondary completely? I can't tell from the reference spec and we're not on
> a 4.10/4.11 base yet.
>
> For the record, in the instances where a volume or template from snapshot
> was required, the backup image was copied on demand to secondary.
>
> In an ideal world, secondary storage wouldn't even be involved in most of
> these options, instead using the native clone features of the underlying
> storage.
>
>
> - Si
>
> 
> From: Suresh Kumar Anaparti <sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 1:37 PM
> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> Cc: Nathan Johnson
> Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
>
> Hi Glen / Si,
>
> In PR# 1697, the global setting *snapshot.backup.rightafter* if set to
> true, it'll be the default behaviour and snapshot is copied to the
> secondary storage. If set to false, then the snapshot state transitions are
> mocked and Snapshot would be in BackedUp state even though it is not really
> in Secondary storage, which doesn't make sense. Also, that will enable to
> create a volume or template from the snapshot, which will obviously fail.
>
> This behavior was changed with the PR
> https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/pull/2081. There is a clear
> separation
> of create and backup volume snapshot operations. The global setting
> *snapshot.backup.rightafter* has been removed in PR# 2081.
>
> -Suresh
>
> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 8:40 PM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> > Glen,
> >
> >
> > This feature was implemented in 4.9 by my colleague Nathan Johnson.  You
> > enable it by changing the global setting  snapshot.backup.rightafter to
> > false.
> >
> >
> > The PR is reference here: https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/pull/1697
> >
> >
> > We have the exact same use case as you, as we also use Ceph.
> >
> >
> > - Si
> >
> >
> > 
> > From: Glen Baars <g...@onsitecomputers.com.au>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 9:46 AM
> > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > Subject: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
> >
> >
> > Hello Devs,
> >
> >
> >
> > I have been thinking about a feature request and want to see what people
> > think about the use case.
> >
> >
> >
> > We use KVM + Ceph RBD as storage.
> >
> >
> >
> > Currently, when a client takes a snapshot, Cloudstack takes a Ceph
> > snapshot and then uses qemu-img to export to secondary storage. This
> > creates a full backup of the server. Clients want to use this as a daily
> > snapshot and it isn’t feasible due to the space requirements.
> >
> >
> >
> > We would like create the snapshot only on primary storage. It is
> > replicated offsite and fault tolerant. I can see that the download
> snapshot
> > and create template features may be an issue.
> >
> >
> >
> > I have seen the below features in the recent releases and wondered if
> this
> > was the direction that the development was going.
> >
> > Separation of volume snapshot creation on primary storage and backing
> > operation on secondary storage.
> >
> > Bypass secondary storage template copy/transfer for KVM.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Glen Baars
> >
> > BackOnline Manager
> >
> >
> >
> > T  1300 733 328 / +61 8 6102 3276
> >
> > NZ +64 9280 3561
> >
> >
> >
> > www.timg.com<http://www.timg.com/>
> >
> >  [http://images.dbonline.com.au/images/fb.png]  Facebook<
> > https://www.facebook.com/TheInformationManagementGroup>  [
> > http://images.dbonline.com.au/images/li.png] LinkedIn<
> http://www.linkedin.
> > com/company/the-information-management-group?trk=hb_tab_
> compy_id_2724246>
> >
> 

Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature

[Simon Weller]

Suresh,


With this new merged  PR, is it possible to disable the backup to secondary 
completely? I can't tell from the reference spec and we're not on a 4.10/4.11 
base yet.

For the record, in the instances where a volume or template from snapshot was 
required, the backup image was copied on demand to secondary.

In an ideal world, secondary storage wouldn't even be involved in most of these 
options, instead using the native clone features of the underlying storage.


- Si


From: Suresh Kumar Anaparti <sureshkumar.anapa...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 1:37 PM
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
Cc: Nathan Johnson
Subject: Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature

Hi Glen / Si,

In PR# 1697, the global setting *snapshot.backup.rightafter* if set to
true, it'll be the default behaviour and snapshot is copied to the
secondary storage. If set to false, then the snapshot state transitions are
mocked and Snapshot would be in BackedUp state even though it is not really
in Secondary storage, which doesn't make sense. Also, that will enable to
create a volume or template from the snapshot, which will obviously fail.

This behavior was changed with the PR
https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/pull/2081. There is a clear separation
of create and backup volume snapshot operations. The global setting
*snapshot.backup.rightafter* has been removed in PR# 2081.

-Suresh

On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 8:40 PM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com.invalid>
wrote:

> Glen,
>
>
> This feature was implemented in 4.9 by my colleague Nathan Johnson.  You
> enable it by changing the global setting  snapshot.backup.rightafter to
> false.
>
>
> The PR is reference here: https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/pull/1697
>
>
> We have the exact same use case as you, as we also use Ceph.
>
>
> - Si
>
>
> 
> From: Glen Baars <g...@onsitecomputers.com.au>
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 9:46 AM
> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> Subject: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
>
>
> Hello Devs,
>
>
>
> I have been thinking about a feature request and want to see what people
> think about the use case.
>
>
>
> We use KVM + Ceph RBD as storage.
>
>
>
> Currently, when a client takes a snapshot, Cloudstack takes a Ceph
> snapshot and then uses qemu-img to export to secondary storage. This
> creates a full backup of the server. Clients want to use this as a daily
> snapshot and it isn’t feasible due to the space requirements.
>
>
>
> We would like create the snapshot only on primary storage. It is
> replicated offsite and fault tolerant. I can see that the download snapshot
> and create template features may be an issue.
>
>
>
> I have seen the below features in the recent releases and wondered if this
> was the direction that the development was going.
>
> Separation of volume snapshot creation on primary storage and backing
> operation on secondary storage.
>
> Bypass secondary storage template copy/transfer for KVM.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Glen Baars
>
> BackOnline Manager
>
>
>
> T  1300 733 328 / +61 8 6102 3276
>
> NZ +64 9280 3561
>
>
>
> www.timg.com<http://www.timg.com/>
>
>  [http://images.dbonline.com.au/images/fb.png]  Facebook<
> https://www.facebook.com/TheInformationManagementGroup>  [
> http://images.dbonline.com.au/images/li.png] LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.
> com/company/the-information-management-group?trk=hb_tab_compy_id_2724246>
>
>
>
> Watch a short video about what we do!<https://www.youtube.com/
> watch?v=scLGLwSIFQc>
>
> [http://images.dbonline.com.au/images/timgv3.jpg]<https://goo.gl/eAHLO7>
>
> This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information.If you
> are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error)
> please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any
> unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this
> e-mail is strictly forbidden.
>
>
>
> This e-mail is intended solely for the benefit of the addressee(s) and any
> other named recipient. It is confidential and may contain legally
> privileged or confidential information. If you are not the recipient, any
> use, distribution, disclosure or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. The
> confidentiality and legal privilege attached to this communication is not
> waived or lost by reason of the mistaken transmission or delivery to you.
> If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately.
>

Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature

[Suresh Kumar Anaparti]

Hi Glen / Si,

In PR# 1697, the global setting *snapshot.backup.rightafter* if set to
true, it'll be the default behaviour and snapshot is copied to the
secondary storage. If set to false, then the snapshot state transitions are
mocked and Snapshot would be in BackedUp state even though it is not really
in Secondary storage, which doesn't make sense. Also, that will enable to
create a volume or template from the snapshot, which will obviously fail.

This behavior was changed with the PR
https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/pull/2081. There is a clear separation
of create and backup volume snapshot operations. The global setting
*snapshot.backup.rightafter* has been removed in PR# 2081.

-Suresh

On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 8:40 PM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com.invalid>
wrote:

> Glen,
>
>
> This feature was implemented in 4.9 by my colleague Nathan Johnson.  You
> enable it by changing the global setting  snapshot.backup.rightafter to
> false.
>
>
> The PR is reference here: https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/pull/1697
>
>
> We have the exact same use case as you, as we also use Ceph.
>
>
> - Si
>
>
> 
> From: Glen Baars <g...@onsitecomputers.com.au>
> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 9:46 AM
> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> Subject: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature
>
>
> Hello Devs,
>
>
>
> I have been thinking about a feature request and want to see what people
> think about the use case.
>
>
>
> We use KVM + Ceph RBD as storage.
>
>
>
> Currently, when a client takes a snapshot, Cloudstack takes a Ceph
> snapshot and then uses qemu-img to export to secondary storage. This
> creates a full backup of the server. Clients want to use this as a daily
> snapshot and it isn’t feasible due to the space requirements.
>
>
>
> We would like create the snapshot only on primary storage. It is
> replicated offsite and fault tolerant. I can see that the download snapshot
> and create template features may be an issue.
>
>
>
> I have seen the below features in the recent releases and wondered if this
> was the direction that the development was going.
>
> Separation of volume snapshot creation on primary storage and backing
> operation on secondary storage.
>
> Bypass secondary storage template copy/transfer for KVM.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Glen Baars
>
> BackOnline Manager
>
>
>
> T  1300 733 328 / +61 8 6102 3276
>
> NZ +64 9280 3561
>
>
>
> www.timg.com<http://www.timg.com/>
>
>  [http://images.dbonline.com.au/images/fb.png]  Facebook<
> https://www.facebook.com/TheInformationManagementGroup>  [
> http://images.dbonline.com.au/images/li.png] LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.
> com/company/the-information-management-group?trk=hb_tab_compy_id_2724246>
>
>
>
> Watch a short video about what we do!<https://www.youtube.com/
> watch?v=scLGLwSIFQc>
>
> [http://images.dbonline.com.au/images/timgv3.jpg]<https://goo.gl/eAHLO7>
>
> This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information.If you
> are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error)
> please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any
> unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this
> e-mail is strictly forbidden.
>
>
>
> This e-mail is intended solely for the benefit of the addressee(s) and any
> other named recipient. It is confidential and may contain legally
> privileged or confidential information. If you are not the recipient, any
> use, distribution, disclosure or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. The
> confidentiality and legal privilege attached to this communication is not
> waived or lost by reason of the mistaken transmission or delivery to you.
> If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately.
>

Re: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature

[Simon Weller]

Glen,


This feature was implemented in 4.9 by my colleague Nathan Johnson.  You enable 
it by changing the global setting  snapshot.backup.rightafter to false.


The PR is reference here: https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/pull/1697


We have the exact same use case as you, as we also use Ceph.


- Si



From: Glen Baars <g...@onsitecomputers.com.au>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 9:46 AM
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
Subject: Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature


Hello Devs,



I have been thinking about a feature request and want to see what people think 
about the use case.



We use KVM + Ceph RBD as storage.



Currently, when a client takes a snapshot, Cloudstack takes a Ceph snapshot and 
then uses qemu-img to export to secondary storage. This creates a full backup 
of the server. Clients want to use this as a daily snapshot and it isn’t 
feasible due to the space requirements.



We would like create the snapshot only on primary storage. It is replicated 
offsite and fault tolerant. I can see that the download snapshot and create 
template features may be an issue.



I have seen the below features in the recent releases and wondered if this was 
the direction that the development was going.

Separation of volume snapshot creation on primary storage and backing operation 
on secondary storage.

Bypass secondary storage template copy/transfer for KVM.

Kind regards,

Glen Baars

BackOnline Manager



T  1300 733 328 / +61 8 6102 3276

NZ +64 9280 3561



www.timg.com<http://www.timg.com/>

 [http://images.dbonline.com.au/images/fb.png]  
Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/TheInformationManagementGroup>  
[http://images.dbonline.com.au/images/li.png] 
LinkedIn<http://www.linkedin.com/company/the-information-management-group?trk=hb_tab_compy_id_2724246>



Watch a short video about what we 
do!<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scLGLwSIFQc>

[http://images.dbonline.com.au/images/timgv3.jpg]<https://goo.gl/eAHLO7>

This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information.If you are 
not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please 
notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized 
copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly 
forbidden.



This e-mail is intended solely for the benefit of the addressee(s) and any 
other named recipient. It is confidential and may contain legally privileged or 
confidential information. If you are not the recipient, any use, distribution, 
disclosure or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. The confidentiality and 
legal privilege attached to this communication is not waived or lost by reason 
of the mistaken transmission or delivery to you. If you have received this 
e-mail in error, please notify us immediately.

Snapshots only on Primary Storage feature

[Glen Baars]

Hello Devs,



I have been thinking about a feature request and want to see what people think 
about the use case.



We use KVM + Ceph RBD as storage.



Currently, when a client takes a snapshot, Cloudstack takes a Ceph snapshot and 
then uses qemu-img to export to secondary storage. This creates a full backup 
of the server. Clients want to use this as a daily snapshot and it isn't 
feasible due to the space requirements.



We would like create the snapshot only on primary storage. It is replicated 
offsite and fault tolerant. I can see that the download snapshot and create 
template features may be an issue.

I have seen the below features in the recent releases and wondered if this was 
the direction that the development was going.
Separation of volume snapshot creation on primary storage and backing operation 
on secondary storage.
Bypass secondary storage template copy/transfer for KVM.
Kind regards,
Glen Baars
BackOnline Manager

T  1300 733 328 / +61 8 6102 3276
NZ +64 9280 3561

www.timg.com

 [http://images.dbonline.com.au/images/fb.png]  
Facebook  
[http://images.dbonline.com.au/images/li.png] 
LinkedIn

Watch a short video about what we 
do!
[http://images.dbonline.com.au/images/timgv3.jpg]
This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information.If you are 
not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please 
notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized 
copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly 
forbidden.

This e-mail is intended solely for the benefit of the addressee(s) and any 
other named recipient. It is confidential and may contain legally privileged or 
confidential information. If you are not the recipient, any use, distribution, 
disclosure or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. The confidentiality and 
legal privilege attached to this communication is not waived or lost by reason 
of the mistaken transmission or delivery to you. If you have received this 
e-mail in error, please notify us immediately.