Re: Find a new name for Corona
Reinhard Pötz wrote: Borland hasn't trademarked silk but only some variants of it. See http://tinyurl.com/5bkw9d Silk was trademarked by a company called mentis: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=docstate=pgshps.20.117 The name that we would use is Cocoon Silk. So I tend to think that it isn't a problem. WDOT? Trademark or not, when people in software talk about Silk these products are what they mean. Using a name that is already highly branded would be a mistake. Maybe most of you are too young to get this but what would you think of a project named Apache SideKick? If it wasn't a Personal Information Manager people would be confused. If it was people would be even more confused. (If you don't know what SideKick was see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SideKick). The point is, people would expect Cocoon Silk to be some sort of performance measurement tool, probably with the expectation that it hooks into Silk Test or Silk Performer somehow. (Which actually isn't a bad idea). Ralph
Re: Find a new name for Corona
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 8:40 AM, Ralph Goers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Reinhard Pötz wrote: ...The name that we would use is Cocoon Silk. So I tend to think that it isn't a problem ...Trademark or not, when people in software talk about Silk these products are what they mean. Using a name that is already highly branded would be a mistake I have a new proposal: Weedle. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakuna#Weedle, Weedle are very weak Pokémon that are captured to be evolved into their cocoon-like Kakuna form. Suits Corona well, as that might or might not become the next Cocoon. And they look cute: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Weedle_(Pok%C3%A9mon) I'm not a Pokemon fan by any means but it looks like the name is not associated with software yet, so it might work. -Bertrand
Re: Find a new name for Corona
Guy, just my 2 cents. We had this renaming game with CForms IIRC. And it was more confusing than it helped. I guess that was so long ago that some people don't remember. I think Corona is a great name. Everyone uses it. People already know it by now. Let's officially call it Apache Cocoon (Project) Corona. Everyone will call it Corona anyway. Will that really be a problem? (Sorry if I missed that thread/post) And once things are there we can think of a migration strategy and migrate it to Cocoon 3.0. But that is still a long way. cheers -- Torsten
Re: Find a new name for Corona
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 9:17 AM, Torsten Curdt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...We had this renaming game with CForms IIRC. And it was more confusing than it helped. I guess that was so long ago that some people don't remember... I do remember - finding names for products today is the nightmare ;-) ...I think Corona is a great name. Everyone uses it. People already know it by now. Let's officially call it Apache Cocoon (Project) Corona. Everyone will call it Corona anyway. Will that really be a problem? (Sorry if I missed that thread/post)... I would agree with that - or just put up all the suggested names for a majority vote of our committers, and be done with it. -Bertrand
Re: Find a new name for Corona
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 9:17 AM, Torsten Curdt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...We had this renaming game with CForms IIRC. And it was more confusing than
it helped.
yes, it took years until Woody was gone. But the situation was different
because Woody had a large user base which Corona hasn't (yet).
I guess that was so long ago that some people don't remember...
I do remember - finding names for products today is the nightmare ;-)
yes, I really get tired of this discussion. Since it will probably be me
who has to do the actual renaming work, I'm strongly in favor of leaving
things as they are (= keeping the name Corona, do some alpha/beta
releases and then we still can decide if we have to change something ...)
...I think Corona is a great name. Everyone uses it. People already know it by
now. Let's officially call it Apache Cocoon (Project) Corona. Everyone will
call it Corona anyway. Will that really be a problem? (Sorry if I missed
that thread/post)...
I would agree with that - or just put up all the suggested names for a
majority vote of our committers, and be done with it.
What would be the options that we vote on?
a) keep the name Apache Cocoon Corona
b) rename to Apache Cocoon Silk
c) we need to find some other name
Any other options?
--
Reinhard Pötz Managing Director, {Indoqa} GmbH
http://www.indoqa.com/en/people/reinhard.poetz/
Member of the Apache Software Foundation
Apache Cocoon Committer, PMC member [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Find a new name for Corona
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Reinhard Pötz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: just put up all the suggested names for a majority vote of our committers, and be done with it. What would be the options that we vote on? a) keep the name Apache Cocoon Corona b) rename to Apache Cocoon Silk c) we need to find some other name... There's also Apache Cocoon Weedle that I proposed this morning in this thread. -Bertrand
Re: Find a new name for Corona
Reinhard Pötz wrote: What would be the options that we vote on? a) keep the name Apache Cocoon Corona b) rename to Apache Cocoon Silk c) we need to find some other name Any other options? I sent a message to legal internal to get their opinion on options a and b. I suggest waiting for an answer. Ralph
Re: Find a new name for Corona
On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 9:59 AM, Ralph Goers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Reinhard Pötz wrote: What would be the options that we vote on? a) keep the name Apache Cocoon Corona b) rename to Apache Cocoon Silk c) we need to find some other name Any other options? I sent a message to legal internal to get their opinion on options a and b. I suggest waiting for an answer We could also vote and, if one of the names is vetoed by the legal team (which I doubt very much - it's Apache Cocoon foo anyway), take the next one. -Bertrand
Re: Find a new name for Corona
Torsten Curdt tcurdt at apache.org writes: I think Corona is a great name. Everyone uses it. People already know it by now. Let's officially call it Apache Cocoon (Project) Corona. Everyone will call it Corona anyway. Will that really be a problem? (Sorry if I missed that thread/post) And once things are there we can think of a migration strategy and migrate it to Cocoon 3.0. But that is still a long way. I tend to agree with Torsten. Renaming it now and potentially again in a year sounds like a lot of confusion. Of course tagging it with the final name as early as possible would be good but it seems we can't agree on calling it Cocoon 3.0 right now. So I prefer to leave it as it is (or just change it to the official name Apache Cocoon Corona). Joerg
Re: Find a new name for Corona
Ralph Goers wrote:
Reinhard Pötz wrote:
What would be the options that we vote on?
a) keep the name Apache Cocoon Corona
b) rename to Apache Cocoon Silk
c) we need to find some other name
Any other options?
I sent a message to legal internal to get their opinion on options a and
b. I suggest waiting for an answer.
Any reason not to cc dev@ or at least [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Reinhard Pötz Managing Director, {Indoqa} GmbH
http://www.indoqa.com/en/people/reinhard.poetz/
Member of the Apache Software Foundation
Apache Cocoon Committer, PMC member [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Find a new name for Corona
On Thu, 2008-07-31 at 09:54 +0200, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Reinhard Pötz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: just put up all the suggested names for a majority vote of our committers, and be done with it. What would be the options that we vote on? a) keep the name Apache Cocoon Corona b) rename to Apache Cocoon Silk c) we need to find some other name... There's also Apache Cocoon Weedle that I proposed this morning in this thread. Just to say another name: ;) Apache Kokon which is cocoon in German. salu2 -Bertrand -- Thorsten Scherler thorsten.at.apache.org Open Source Java consulting, training and solutions
Re: Find a new name for Corona
On Thu, 2008-07-31 at 14:03 +0200, Thorsten Scherler wrote: On Thu, 2008-07-31 at 09:54 +0200, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Reinhard Pötz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: just put up all the suggested names for a majority vote of our committers, and be done with it. What would be the options that we vote on? a) keep the name Apache Cocoon Corona b) rename to Apache Cocoon Silk c) we need to find some other name... There's also Apache Cocoon Weedle that I proposed this morning in this thread. Just to say another name: ;) Apache Kokon which is cocoon in German. jeje this one is for Antonio: Apache Capullo which is cocoon in Spanish (but in Spain it has a slightly double meaning). salu2 -- Thorsten Scherler thorsten.at.apache.org Open Source Java consulting, training and solutions
Re: Find a new name for Corona
Sorry, I didn't do reply-all. I usually just do reply on all my Apache email. Reinhard Pötz wrote: Ralph Goers wrote: Reinhard Pötz wrote: What would be the options that we vote on? a) keep the name Apache Cocoon Corona b) rename to Apache Cocoon Silk c) we need to find some other name Any other options? I sent a message to legal internal to get their opinion on options a and b. I suggest waiting for an answer. Any reason not to cc dev@ or at least [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Find a new name for Corona
Thorsten Scherler wrote: Just to say another name: ;) Apache Kokon which is cocoon in German. jeje this one is for Antonio: Apache Capullo which is cocoon in Spanish (but in Spain it has a slightly double meaning). salu2 Should I ask? I actually like both those names - depending on the secondary meaning.
Re: Find a new name for Corona
On Thu, 2008-07-31 at 07:21 -0700, Ralph Goers wrote: Thorsten Scherler wrote: Just to say another name: ;) Apache Kokon which is cocoon in German. jeje this one is for Antonio: Apache Capullo which is cocoon in Spanish (but in Spain it has a slightly double meaning). salu2 Should I ask? I actually like both those names - depending on the secondary meaning. hehehe, the second meaning in Spain (not in south America) is somehow like asshole but in a more friendly way and is really an Andalusia thing. ;) Good laughs I had with Antonio about that. In Nicaragua it has the double meaning of darling sweetheart. salu2 -- Thorsten Scherler thorsten.at.apache.org Open Source Java consulting, training and solutions
Re: Find a new name for Corona (was: [proposal] Corona: A Cocoon subproject)
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Reinhard Pötz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... . Apache Cocoon Silk My favorite - usually known as Cocoon Silk ... . Apache Silk... Omitting Cocoon in the name would be a bad idea IMO, as the Cocoon brand is well-known. -Bertrand
RE: Find a new name for Corona (was: [proposal] Corona: A Cocoon subproject)
-Original Message- From: Reinhard Pötz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: woensdag 30 juli 2008 7:46 To: dev@cocoon.apache.org Subject: Find a new name for Corona (was: [proposal] Corona: A Cocoon subproject) The USA spelling might be better: Fiber. ok, that's much better IMO. Provided that we are allowed to have a subproject without Cocoon in the name, the current list of suggested names includes: . Apache Cocoon Fiber . Apache Cocoon Silk . Apache Fiber . Apache Silk Any other suggestions? Fiber returns many IT related hits in search engines. While Silk gives almost none (except [1], who did that graphical design?). So if you're developing with/for Corona and you're looking for information or help, Silk may be better. You may get lost in all results for Fiber which are unrelated to this project. Just my €0.02. [1] http://www.silkproject.org/ Jasha Joachimsthal www.onehippo.com Amsterdam - Hippo B.V. Oosteinde 11 1017 WT Amsterdam +31(0)20-5224466 San Francisco - Hippo USA Inc. 101 H Street, suite Q Petaluma CA 94952-3329 +1 (707) 773-4646
Re: Find a new name for Corona
Bertrand Delacretaz pisze: On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Reinhard Pötz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... . Apache Cocoon Silk My favorite - usually known as Cocoon Silk ... . Apache Silk... Omitting Cocoon in the name would be a bad idea IMO, as the Cocoon brand is well-known. +1 -- Grzegorz Kossakowski
Re: Find a new name for Corona (was: [proposal] Corona: A Cocoon subproject)
Hi, 2008/7/30 Reinhard Pötz [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ok, that's much better IMO. Provided that we are allowed to have a subproject without Cocoon in the name, the current list of suggested names includes: . Apache Cocoon Fiber . Apache Cocoon Silk . Apache Fiber . Apache Silk Any other suggestions? I'd argue strongly in favour of the original spelling, Fibre, and not Fiber. Andrew. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.andrewsavory.com/
Re: Find a new name for Corona
Reinhard Pötz wrote: . Apache Cocoon Fiber . Apache Cocoon Silk . Apache Fiber . Apache Silk Any other suggestions? I agree with the others that we should leave Cocoon in the name. We have a very strong brand which we should use. I don't like Fiber - it reminds me of the German word (Fieber) for fever - and I can imagine many lame jokes on that one. :) Between the original spelling Fibre and Silk I prefer Silk. So +1 for Cocoon Silk. Carsten -- Carsten Ziegeler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Find a new name for Corona
Silk is the shorthand name for SilkTest and SilkPerformer. http://www.borland.com/us/products/silk/index.html. Carsten Ziegeler wrote: Reinhard Pötz wrote: . Apache Cocoon Fiber . Apache Cocoon Silk . Apache Fiber . Apache Silk Any other suggestions? I agree with the others that we should leave Cocoon in the name. We have a very strong brand which we should use. I don't like Fiber - it reminds me of the German word (Fieber) for fever - and I can imagine many lame jokes on that one. :) Between the original spelling Fibre and Silk I prefer Silk. So +1 for Cocoon Silk. Carsten
Re: Find a new name for Corona
:-( that's bad. Any other suggestions?
Ralph Goers wrote:
Silk is the shorthand name for SilkTest and SilkPerformer.
http://www.borland.com/us/products/silk/index.html.
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
Reinhard Pötz wrote:
. Apache Cocoon Fiber
. Apache Cocoon Silk
. Apache Fiber
. Apache Silk
Any other suggestions?
I agree with the others that we should leave Cocoon in the name. We
have a very strong brand which we should use.
I don't like Fiber - it reminds me of the German word (Fieber) for
fever - and I can imagine many lame jokes on that one. :)
Between the original spelling Fibre and Silk I prefer Silk.
So +1 for Cocoon Silk.
Carsten
--
Reinhard Pötz Managing Director, {Indoqa} GmbH
http://www.indoqa.com/en/people/reinhard.poetz/
Member of the Apache Software Foundation
Apache Cocoon Committer, PMC member [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Find a new name for Corona
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 5:28 PM, Reinhard Pötz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: :-( that's bad. Any other suggestions? I still think that Cocoon 3.0 could be the name, if people are going to invest a significant effort in what's Corona today. For Sling we'd like to use the pipelines implementation, so some of us Sling folks are planning to contribute and help maintain that. I am not interested in the other parts at the moment. We already have 2.1 and 2.2 which are fairly different products, Cocoon 3.0 would be a lightweight embeddable thing that captures the essence of Cocoon in a way that's better suited to many of today's environments. Clearly an evolution, even though some parts will be missing, as those new environments provide them. -Bertrand
Re: Find a new name for Corona
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 5:28 PM, Reinhard Pötz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
:-( that's bad. Any other suggestions?
I still think that Cocoon 3.0 could be the name, if people are going
to invest a significant effort in what's Corona today. For Sling we'd
like to use the pipelines implementation, so some of us Sling folks
are planning to contribute and help maintain that. I am not interested
in the other parts at the moment.
We already have 2.1 and 2.2 which are fairly different products,
Cocoon 3.0 would be a lightweight embeddable thing that captures the
essence of Cocoon in a way that's better suited to many of today's
environments. Clearly an evolution, even though some parts will be
missing, as those new environments provide them.
I'm still not convinced that we should name it Cocoon 3.0 _now_ (quoting
myself from a few days ago):
[...] Before we make the decision if Corona should become Cocoon 3.0 we
should learn more what other people think about it. (Currently it's only
3 people who use it!) IMO the best way to find this out is by shipping
alpha releases under a codename. This gives us the freedom to decide
later without spoiling version numbers. [...]
When Corona is able to attract a stable community proves itself useable
to a wider audience, we can start to ship it as Cocoon 3.0.
Or is it only me who needs to be convinced of shipping Corona as Cocoon 3.0?
--
Reinhard Pötz Managing Director, {Indoqa} GmbH
http://www.indoqa.com/en/people/reinhard.poetz/
Member of the Apache Software Foundation
Apache Cocoon Committer, PMC member [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Find a new name for Corona
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 6:04 PM, Reinhard Pötz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...I'm still not convinced that we should name it Cocoon 3.0 _now_ (quoting myself from a few days ago):.. I knew someone had said something about that, couldn't find that thread ;-) ...When Corona is able to attract a stable community proves itself useable to a wider audience, we can start to ship it as Cocoon 3.0 If that's the plan (and I like it), why not keep the project Corona name for now? That would be just a project name, not a product name, so we don't need to care about conflicts, the full name would be Apache Cocoon - project Corona. -Bertrand
Re: Find a new name for Corona
Just my 0,02 cents... I always considered Cocoon to mean more than pipelines, sitemap and alike Thus I don't think using Cocoon 3.0 being an apropriate name. What about Cocoon Pipe (ok, not exaktly) or Cocoon Bones Rainer Reinhard Pötz schrieb: Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 5:28 PM, Reinhard Pötz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: :-( that's bad. Any other suggestions? I still think that Cocoon 3.0 could be the name, if people are going to invest a significant effort in what's Corona today. For Sling we'd like to use the pipelines implementation, so some of us Sling folks are planning to contribute and help maintain that. I am not interested in the other parts at the moment. We already have 2.1 and 2.2 which are fairly different products, Cocoon 3.0 would be a lightweight embeddable thing that captures the essence of Cocoon in a way that's better suited to many of today's environments. Clearly an evolution, even though some parts will be missing, as those new environments provide them. I'm still not convinced that we should name it Cocoon 3.0 _now_ (quoting myself from a few days ago): [...] Before we make the decision if Corona should become Cocoon 3.0 we should learn more what other people think about it. (Currently it's only 3 people who use it!) IMO the best way to find this out is by shipping alpha releases under a codename. This gives us the freedom to decide later without spoiling version numbers. [...] When Corona is able to attract a stable community proves itself useable to a wider audience, we can start to ship it as Cocoon 3.0. Or is it only me who needs to be convinced of shipping Corona as Cocoon 3.0?
Re: Find a new name for Corona
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 5:28 PM, Reinhard Pötz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: :-( that's bad. Any other suggestions? I still think that Cocoon 3.0 could be the name, if people are going to invest a significant effort in what's Corona today. For Sling we'd like to use the pipelines implementation, so some of us Sling folks are planning to contribute and help maintain that. I am not interested in the other parts at the moment. I think that at the moment Corona is far too much of an experiment to be considered 3.0. Parts of it or all may become 3.0 but who knows? Almost any name we choose will overlap with an existing product to some extent. If it's not trademarked I'm ok with the overlap. As such I think Silk is still one of the best options I've seen suggested.. -- Peter Hunsberger
Re: Find a new name for Corona
Peter Hunsberger wrote:
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 5:28 PM, Reinhard Pötz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
:-( that's bad. Any other suggestions?
I still think that Cocoon 3.0 could be the name, if people are going
to invest a significant effort in what's Corona today. For Sling we'd
like to use the pipelines implementation, so some of us Sling folks
are planning to contribute and help maintain that. I am not interested
in the other parts at the moment.
I think that at the moment Corona is far too much of an experiment to be
considered 3.0. Parts of it or all may become 3.0 but who knows?
Almost any name we choose will overlap with an existing product to some
extent. If it's not trademarked I'm ok with the overlap. As such I
think Silk is still one of the best options I've seen suggested..
Borland hasn't trademarked silk but only some variants of it. See
http://tinyurl.com/5bkw9d
Silk was trademarked by a company called mentis:
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=docstate=pgshps.20.117
The name that we would use is Cocoon Silk. So I tend to think that it
isn't a problem.
WDOT?
--
Reinhard Pötz Managing Director, {Indoqa} GmbH
http://www.indoqa.com/en/people/reinhard.poetz/
Member of the Apache Software Foundation
Apache Cocoon Committer, PMC member [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Find a new name for Corona
Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: If that's the plan (and I like it), why not keep the project Corona name for now? That would be just a project name, not a product name, so we don't need to care about conflicts, the full name would be Apache Cocoon - project Corona. In my, very humble, opinion, this makes a lot of sense. Moreover, I like the Corona name: it was the codename for the first family of spy satellites (actually, it was spelled project CORONA, in uppercase)... quite an endeavor at the time [1]. Regards, [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_(satellite) Luca Morandini www.lucamorandini.it
