Re: [all] github (was Re: [VOTE] Create additional mailing lists for automated posts)
>GitHub is basically our interactive pull request interface. If we didn’t have that, I bet we’d be running GitLab ourselves or similar. Yes, that is what I think gitbox lacks. Cannot imagine a git-based website having no convenient pr system... >Also, being that the bar to be a committer here is fairly low, getting access to gitbox directly isn’t too difficult. This is decided by what you mean 'low'... As far as I can see in my prs, most of the time I need to wait for very long to get reviewed. I think that can indicate the fact that we have no enough committers(or no enough reviewers). Or, quite some committers only focus on their own prs, but not do any reviews? For examples about my prs at commons-lang,if my memory is correct, only gary (and sometimes kinow) reviewed my prs, and I don't think we have only two committers in commons-lang. Matt Sicker 于2020年7月26日周日 上午1:41写道： > GitHub is basically our interactive pull request interface. If we didn’t > have that, I bet we’d be running GitLab ourselves or similar. > > Also, being that the bar to be a committer here is fairly low, getting > access to gitbox directly isn’t too difficult. > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 12:17 Xeno Amess wrote: > > > besides, that is JIRA where we can apply patch, but I think it SHOULD be > > done on gutbox. github, gitlab, all of them have a convienent pr system. > > so yes our JIRA is good, I like JIRA. > > But for gitbox, I think it really lack lots of things. > > Or, there be those things, but not open. > > > > Xeno Amess 于 2020年7月25日周六 上午1:11写道： > > > > > you know that is really complex and time costing... > > > especially when we want some trigger invoked like travis-ci. > > > > > > Stefan Bodewig 于 2020年7月25日周六 上午1:06写道： > > > > > >> On 2020-07-24, Xeno Amess wrote: > > >> > > >> > I will explain why github come to be center, but not apache gitbox. > > >> > 1.1 > > >> > I have right to register an account on github. > > >> > 1.2 > > >> > I registered an account at github. > > >> > 1.3 > > >> > I commit then create pr. > > >> > 1.4 > > >> > pr get reviewed then merged. > > >> > > >> I am fully aware of how github works, I use PRs myself. > > >> > > >> The perceived ease[1] of doing this comes at a price and I'm mourning > > >> the loss of community building. > > >> > > >> Stefan > > >> > > >> [1] with gitbox you are certainly able to contribute > > >> > > >> git clone > > >> git checkout -b my-work > > >> ... > > >> git format-patch > > >> attach patch to JIRA > > >> > > >> but you know that. > > >> > > >> - > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org > > >> > > >> > > > -- > Matt Sicker >
Re: [all] github (was Re: [VOTE] Create additional mailing lists for automated posts)
GitHub is basically our interactive pull request interface. If we didn’t have that, I bet we’d be running GitLab ourselves or similar. Also, being that the bar to be a committer here is fairly low, getting access to gitbox directly isn’t too difficult. On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 12:17 Xeno Amess wrote: > besides, that is JIRA where we can apply patch, but I think it SHOULD be > done on gutbox. github, gitlab, all of them have a convienent pr system. > so yes our JIRA is good, I like JIRA. > But for gitbox, I think it really lack lots of things. > Or, there be those things, but not open. > > Xeno Amess 于 2020年7月25日周六 上午1:11写道： > > > you know that is really complex and time costing... > > especially when we want some trigger invoked like travis-ci. > > > > Stefan Bodewig 于 2020年7月25日周六 上午1:06写道： > > > >> On 2020-07-24, Xeno Amess wrote: > >> > >> > I will explain why github come to be center, but not apache gitbox. > >> > 1.1 > >> > I have right to register an account on github. > >> > 1.2 > >> > I registered an account at github. > >> > 1.3 > >> > I commit then create pr. > >> > 1.4 > >> > pr get reviewed then merged. > >> > >> I am fully aware of how github works, I use PRs myself. > >> > >> The perceived ease[1] of doing this comes at a price and I'm mourning > >> the loss of community building. > >> > >> Stefan > >> > >> [1] with gitbox you are certainly able to contribute > >> > >> git clone > >> git checkout -b my-work > >> ... > >> git format-patch > >> attach patch to JIRA > >> > >> but you know that. > >> > >> - > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org > >> > >> > -- Matt Sicker
Re: [all] github (was Re: [VOTE] Create additional mailing lists for automated posts)
Hello. Le ven. 24 juil. 2020 à 17:45, Stefan Bodewig a écrit : > > This is an attempt at answering something raised be Gilles in a > different thread. I'm afraid it is getting longer than I > intended. Something seems to need to get out. Sorry. > > On 2020-07-23, Gilles Sadowski wrote: > > > I missed the turn where this project's PMC decided that we must > > be present on GH in order to continue what some of us have been > > doing for more than 10 years. > > The project decided to set up github mirrors and with the exposure to > github you get the rest of the package. Depends on what "get" means. The mirror functionality does not necessarily entail the "rest". For just one example, see [1]. Thus, to mimic Xeno's wording (up to a point): 0. Post a proposal to "dev@". 1. Create a JIRA issue. 2. Create GH PR that will be linked from JIRA. 3. Ask for comment in JIRA. 4. Get review, as JIRA comments (until convergence/compliance). 5. ["none of contributor's business"] Merge. > I don't remember whether we had an explicit vote about enabling github > mirrors, much less whether it has been a component by component > decision. If I'm not mistaken, mirrors come by default with any new git repository. A mirror gives more exposure to the project, which is indeed good, as you say below. > Putting aside what I think about github as a company Why? One should learn from history that this company is accustomed to "gifts" whose cost can (will) appear much later on. > one thing that I > have observed with projects migrating to github across the board is it > seems to lower the barrier for new contributors. And this is good, as said above, but up to a point as you indeed note: > This results in two > things: (1) you get more contributions and (2) the contributors usually > don't stick around, most contributions are drive-by one-off > contributions. > > Gilles, I believe you have seen an uptick in contributions to the > sevaral maths components even if you don't like they way they have > happened. The following might sound dismissive but it is not: We appreciate anyone interested in helping out. However the point is indeed "helping out": If it takes much more time to review/correct/merge a contribution than make it myself, this is not helping out, quite the contrary. Of course, there is a learning curve for a new contributor; I have, every time, spelled out in (fairly) full what was expected but (my impression is the same as yours) for a one-off contribution, it is out of proportion. > > There is a trend to make GH central to the development process > > (marginalizing "dev@" and JIRA and colonizing "issues@"). > > This is troubling me as well. Where "this" is that using github PRs > seems to keep the potential future committers away from the dev list and > they never become part of a component's community. IMO, GitHub's motto could be "Code over community". It's not necessarily bad, but GitHub is understandably (and obviously primarily) interested in *its* community. > We do get more contributions anf the quality of the codebases likely > improves because of this, but I feel it makes the community weaker. There is experimental data that there's no causality link between using GitHub as a mirror and this community's way(s) of working for at least 10 years: * Matt has undertaken the overhaul of [Geometry] codes, without having write access to the Apache repository (cf. [1] for just one example), * ditto, earlier, with the polishing, up to the last percent of coverage, (and more!) of [RNG] by Alex. > Discussions only rarely happen "here" nowadays. Whereas, in the not-so-distant past, this was severely frowned upon. Whether using GitHub almost exclusively (bypassing the "dev" ML and JIRA) is progress or not, it was not approved, but this PMC let it happen. > There are a few people like Gary, Rob and a few others who manage to > devote time across almost all components and I adore them for that. And > we need them because most of the components wouldn't stand a chance to > get a release vote through without them. Those who do the work get to decide. No arguing against that. Being more productive (by necessity) with GitHub, increases the bias, which you noted, of attracting more and more contributors who attempt to get their code merged by, so to speak, "trial and error" (as opposed to "internalize" requirements). > Our component communities have > become too small to sustain themselves and at the same time some of them > see more commits than they used to have in "the good old days" with many > people active on this list. Xeno has a point in saying that this problem did not appear with GitHub. I've raised it myself several times over the years, but the readers here have always remained unfazed. > I haven't got an answer to this. Neither have I, at least not an effective one. Last year, I proposed that we participate in GSoC. By "we", I thought I was meaning "Commons", but only the math-related
Re: [all] github (was Re: [VOTE] Create additional mailing lists for automated posts)
On 2020-07-24, Xeno Amess wrote: >> We respectfully discuss and in the end come to a compromise or a common >> ground where we can agree to disagree. I still see this happen here and >> don't think all of us need to have the same opinion. > So maybe at the end some of commons repos using as new version of > dependencies as they can, others using as old version of dependencies as > they can? Could be such an outcome, yes, or maybe a stronger recommendation for a certain approach. We'll see in a different thread :-) Stefan - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org
Re: [all] github (was Re: [VOTE] Create additional mailing lists for automated posts)
> We respectfully discuss and in the end come to a compromise or a common ground where we can agree to disagree. I still see this happen here and don't think all of us need to have the same opinion. So maybe at the end some of commons repos using as new version of dependencies as they can, others using as old version of dependencies as they can? I agree that there be no exact right or wrong answer in this question, but I still hope we can get an uniformed way to all sub repos in commons. At least as for avoiding dependency hell. Stefan Bodewig 于 2020年7月25日周六 上午1:40写道： > On 2020-07-24, Xeno Amess wrote: > > > As for community building, I agree with you that commons seems not a > > close community, but I doubt it be github's fault. even there be no > > github, sub-repos in commons are not that close to each other. > > Commons is an old project and it started with a striving community. Most > people have left, as is natural for any open source project. I believe > we've done better attracting new community members before, but this is > certainly colored by my mood and preferences. > > As for your follow-up response about agreeing on when to upgrade > dependencies. Community doesn't mean uniformity to me. We respectfully > discuss and in the end come to a compromise or a common ground where we > can agree to disagree. I still see this happen here and don't think all > of us need to have the same opinion. > > Stefan > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org > >
Re: [all] github (was Re: [VOTE] Create additional mailing lists for automated posts)
On 2020-07-24, Xeno Amess wrote: > As for community building, I agree with you that commons seems not a > close community, but I doubt it be github's fault. even there be no > github, sub-repos in commons are not that close to each other. Commons is an old project and it started with a striving community. Most people have left, as is natural for any open source project. I believe we've done better attracting new community members before, but this is certainly colored by my mood and preferences. As for your follow-up response about agreeing on when to upgrade dependencies. Community doesn't mean uniformity to me. We respectfully discuss and in the end come to a compromise or a common ground where we can agree to disagree. I still see this happen here and don't think all of us need to have the same opinion. Stefan - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org
Re: [all] github (was Re: [VOTE] Create additional mailing lists for automated posts)
for example...we become even hard to get an agreement on whether to upgrade dependencies...(sigh) Atleast on this thing I don't think github is the one to blame... Xeno Amess 于 2020年7月25日周六 上午1:21写道： > As for community building, I agree with you that commons seems not a close > community, but I doubt it be github's fault. > even there be no github, sub-repos in commons are not that close to each > other. > > Xeno Amess 于 2020年7月25日周六 上午1:16写道： > >> besides, that is JIRA where we can apply patch, but I think it SHOULD be >> done on gutbox. github, gitlab, all of them have a convienent pr system. >> so yes our JIRA is good, I like JIRA. >> But for gitbox, I think it really lack lots of things. >> Or, there be those things, but not open. >> >> Xeno Amess 于 2020年7月25日周六 上午1:11写道： >> >>> you know that is really complex and time costing... >>> especially when we want some trigger invoked like travis-ci. >>> >>> Stefan Bodewig 于 2020年7月25日周六 上午1:06写道： >>> On 2020-07-24, Xeno Amess wrote: > I will explain why github come to be center, but not apache gitbox. > 1.1 > I have right to register an account on github. > 1.2 > I registered an account at github. > 1.3 > I commit then create pr. > 1.4 > pr get reviewed then merged. I am fully aware of how github works, I use PRs myself. The perceived ease[1] of doing this comes at a price and I'm mourning the loss of community building. Stefan [1] with gitbox you are certainly able to contribute git clone git checkout -b my-work ... git format-patch attach patch to JIRA but you know that. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org
Re: [all] github (was Re: [VOTE] Create additional mailing lists for automated posts)
As for community building, I agree with you that commons seems not a close community, but I doubt it be github's fault. even there be no github, sub-repos in commons are not that close to each other. Xeno Amess 于 2020年7月25日周六 上午1:16写道： > besides, that is JIRA where we can apply patch, but I think it SHOULD be > done on gutbox. github, gitlab, all of them have a convienent pr system. > so yes our JIRA is good, I like JIRA. > But for gitbox, I think it really lack lots of things. > Or, there be those things, but not open. > > Xeno Amess 于 2020年7月25日周六 上午1:11写道： > >> you know that is really complex and time costing... >> especially when we want some trigger invoked like travis-ci. >> >> Stefan Bodewig 于 2020年7月25日周六 上午1:06写道： >> >>> On 2020-07-24, Xeno Amess wrote: >>> >>> > I will explain why github come to be center, but not apache gitbox. >>> > 1.1 >>> > I have right to register an account on github. >>> > 1.2 >>> > I registered an account at github. >>> > 1.3 >>> > I commit then create pr. >>> > 1.4 >>> > pr get reviewed then merged. >>> >>> I am fully aware of how github works, I use PRs myself. >>> >>> The perceived ease[1] of doing this comes at a price and I'm mourning >>> the loss of community building. >>> >>> Stefan >>> >>> [1] with gitbox you are certainly able to contribute >>> >>> git clone >>> git checkout -b my-work >>> ... >>> git format-patch >>> attach patch to JIRA >>> >>> but you know that. >>> >>> - >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org >>> >>>
Re: [all] github (was Re: [VOTE] Create additional mailing lists for automated posts)
besides, that is JIRA where we can apply patch, but I think it SHOULD be done on gutbox. github, gitlab, all of them have a convienent pr system. so yes our JIRA is good, I like JIRA. But for gitbox, I think it really lack lots of things. Or, there be those things, but not open. Xeno Amess 于 2020年7月25日周六 上午1:11写道： > you know that is really complex and time costing... > especially when we want some trigger invoked like travis-ci. > > Stefan Bodewig 于 2020年7月25日周六 上午1:06写道： > >> On 2020-07-24, Xeno Amess wrote: >> >> > I will explain why github come to be center, but not apache gitbox. >> > 1.1 >> > I have right to register an account on github. >> > 1.2 >> > I registered an account at github. >> > 1.3 >> > I commit then create pr. >> > 1.4 >> > pr get reviewed then merged. >> >> I am fully aware of how github works, I use PRs myself. >> >> The perceived ease[1] of doing this comes at a price and I'm mourning >> the loss of community building. >> >> Stefan >> >> [1] with gitbox you are certainly able to contribute >> >> git clone >> git checkout -b my-work >> ... >> git format-patch >> attach patch to JIRA >> >> but you know that. >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org >> >>
Re: [all] github (was Re: [VOTE] Create additional mailing lists for automated posts)
you know that is really complex and time costing... especially when we want some trigger invoked like travis-ci. Stefan Bodewig 于 2020年7月25日周六 上午1:06写道： > On 2020-07-24, Xeno Amess wrote: > > > I will explain why github come to be center, but not apache gitbox. > > 1.1 > > I have right to register an account on github. > > 1.2 > > I registered an account at github. > > 1.3 > > I commit then create pr. > > 1.4 > > pr get reviewed then merged. > > I am fully aware of how github works, I use PRs myself. > > The perceived ease[1] of doing this comes at a price and I'm mourning > the loss of community building. > > Stefan > > [1] with gitbox you are certainly able to contribute > > git clone > git checkout -b my-work > ... > git format-patch > attach patch to JIRA > > but you know that. > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org > >
Re: [all] github (was Re: [VOTE] Create additional mailing lists for automated posts)
Apologize for being in mood. So my opinion is if github is the only way people where ANY people can create pr, then no wonder it will become center gradually. Gary Gregory 于 2020年7月25日周六 上午12:53写道： > Xeno, > > Your last sentence contains language that is completely inappropriate here. > > Please take a breath. Any point you are trying to make is most likely to > get lost by your invective. > > Gary > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 12:40 Xeno Amess wrote: > > > I will explain why github come to be center, but not apache gitbox. > > 1.1 > > I have right to register an account on github. > > 1.2 > > I registered an account at github. > > 1.3 > > I commit then create pr. > > 1.4 > > pr get reviewed then merged. > > > > 2.1 > > I have no right to register on apache gitbox. > > 2.2 > > I can not register on apache gitbox. > > 2.3 > > I can not create pr on apache gitbox. > > 2.4 > > fuck off, apache gitbox, I'll go back to github. > > > > > > Stefan Bodewig 于 2020年7月24日周五 下午11:45写道： > > > > > This is an attempt at answering something raised be Gilles in a > > > different thread. I'm afraid it is getting longer than I > > > intended. Something seems to need to get out. Sorry. > > > > > > On 2020-07-23, Gilles Sadowski wrote: > > > > > > > I missed the turn where this project's PMC decided that we must > > > > be present on GH in order to continue what some of us have been > > > > doing for more than 10 years. > > > > > > The project decided to set up github mirrors and with the exposure to > > > github you get the rest of the package. > > > > > > I don't remember whether we had an explicit vote about enabling github > > > mirrors, much less whether it has been a component by component > > > decision. > > > > > > Putting aside what I think about github as a company one thing that I > > > have observed with projects migrating to github across the board is it > > > seems to lower the barrier for new contributors. This results in two > > > things: (1) you get more contributions and (2) the contributors usually > > > don't stick around, most contributions are drive-by one-off > > > contributions. > > > > > > Gilles, I believe you have seen an uptick in contributions to the > > > sevaral maths components even if you don't like they way they have > > > happened. > > > > > > > There is a trend to make GH central to the development process > > > > (marginalizing "dev@" and JIRA and colonizing "issues@"). > > > > > > This is troubling me as well. Where "this" is that using github PRs > > > seems to keep the potential future committers away from the dev list > and > > > they never become part of a component's community. > > > > > > We do get more contributions anf the quality of the codebases likely > > > improves because of this, but I feel it makes the community weaker. > > > Discussions only rarely happen "here" nowadays. > > > > > > There are a few people like Gary, Rob and a few others who manage to > > > devote time across almost all components and I adore them for that. And > > > we need them because most of the components wouldn't stand a chance to > > > get a release vote through without them. Our component communities have > > > become too small to sustain themselves and at the same time some of > them > > > see more commits than they used to have in "the good old days" with > many > > > people active on this list. > > > > > > I haven't got an answer to this. > > > > > > [Sidenote: In the early 90s I contributed to my first open source > > > project before CVS had a network protocol. I can not understand why > > > having to checkout a SCM repository, creating a patch and sending it to > > > somebody else is a burden that keeps people from contributing. I have > > > learnt to accept this as a fact. There are lots of facts I cannot > > > explain. And yes, I know I sound old. I am :-)] > > > > > > Stefan > > > > > > - > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org > > > > > > > > >
Re: [all] github (was Re: [VOTE] Create additional mailing lists for automated posts)
On 2020-07-24, Xeno Amess wrote: > I will explain why github come to be center, but not apache gitbox. > 1.1 > I have right to register an account on github. > 1.2 > I registered an account at github. > 1.3 > I commit then create pr. > 1.4 > pr get reviewed then merged. I am fully aware of how github works, I use PRs myself. The perceived ease[1] of doing this comes at a price and I'm mourning the loss of community building. Stefan [1] with gitbox you are certainly able to contribute git clone git checkout -b my-work ... git format-patch attach patch to JIRA but you know that. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org
Re: [all] github (was Re: [VOTE] Create additional mailing lists for automated posts)
Xeno, Your last sentence contains language that is completely inappropriate here. Please take a breath. Any point you are trying to make is most likely to get lost by your invective. Gary On Fri, Jul 24, 2020, 12:40 Xeno Amess wrote: > I will explain why github come to be center, but not apache gitbox. > 1.1 > I have right to register an account on github. > 1.2 > I registered an account at github. > 1.3 > I commit then create pr. > 1.4 > pr get reviewed then merged. > > 2.1 > I have no right to register on apache gitbox. > 2.2 > I can not register on apache gitbox. > 2.3 > I can not create pr on apache gitbox. > 2.4 > fuck off, apache gitbox, I'll go back to github. > > > Stefan Bodewig 于 2020年7月24日周五 下午11:45写道： > > > This is an attempt at answering something raised be Gilles in a > > different thread. I'm afraid it is getting longer than I > > intended. Something seems to need to get out. Sorry. > > > > On 2020-07-23, Gilles Sadowski wrote: > > > > > I missed the turn where this project's PMC decided that we must > > > be present on GH in order to continue what some of us have been > > > doing for more than 10 years. > > > > The project decided to set up github mirrors and with the exposure to > > github you get the rest of the package. > > > > I don't remember whether we had an explicit vote about enabling github > > mirrors, much less whether it has been a component by component > > decision. > > > > Putting aside what I think about github as a company one thing that I > > have observed with projects migrating to github across the board is it > > seems to lower the barrier for new contributors. This results in two > > things: (1) you get more contributions and (2) the contributors usually > > don't stick around, most contributions are drive-by one-off > > contributions. > > > > Gilles, I believe you have seen an uptick in contributions to the > > sevaral maths components even if you don't like they way they have > > happened. > > > > > There is a trend to make GH central to the development process > > > (marginalizing "dev@" and JIRA and colonizing "issues@"). > > > > This is troubling me as well. Where "this" is that using github PRs > > seems to keep the potential future committers away from the dev list and > > they never become part of a component's community. > > > > We do get more contributions anf the quality of the codebases likely > > improves because of this, but I feel it makes the community weaker. > > Discussions only rarely happen "here" nowadays. > > > > There are a few people like Gary, Rob and a few others who manage to > > devote time across almost all components and I adore them for that. And > > we need them because most of the components wouldn't stand a chance to > > get a release vote through without them. Our component communities have > > become too small to sustain themselves and at the same time some of them > > see more commits than they used to have in "the good old days" with many > > people active on this list. > > > > I haven't got an answer to this. > > > > [Sidenote: In the early 90s I contributed to my first open source > > project before CVS had a network protocol. I can not understand why > > having to checkout a SCM repository, creating a patch and sending it to > > somebody else is a burden that keeps people from contributing. I have > > learnt to accept this as a fact. There are lots of facts I cannot > > explain. And yes, I know I sound old. I am :-)] > > > > Stefan > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org > > > > >
Re: [all] github (was Re: [VOTE] Create additional mailing lists for automated posts)
I will explain why github come to be center, but not apache gitbox. 1.1 I have right to register an account on github. 1.2 I registered an account at github. 1.3 I commit then create pr. 1.4 pr get reviewed then merged. 2.1 I have no right to register on apache gitbox. 2.2 I can not register on apache gitbox. 2.3 I can not create pr on apache gitbox. 2.4 fuck off, apache gitbox, I'll go back to github. Stefan Bodewig 于 2020年7月24日周五 下午11:45写道： > This is an attempt at answering something raised be Gilles in a > different thread. I'm afraid it is getting longer than I > intended. Something seems to need to get out. Sorry. > > On 2020-07-23, Gilles Sadowski wrote: > > > I missed the turn where this project's PMC decided that we must > > be present on GH in order to continue what some of us have been > > doing for more than 10 years. > > The project decided to set up github mirrors and with the exposure to > github you get the rest of the package. > > I don't remember whether we had an explicit vote about enabling github > mirrors, much less whether it has been a component by component > decision. > > Putting aside what I think about github as a company one thing that I > have observed with projects migrating to github across the board is it > seems to lower the barrier for new contributors. This results in two > things: (1) you get more contributions and (2) the contributors usually > don't stick around, most contributions are drive-by one-off > contributions. > > Gilles, I believe you have seen an uptick in contributions to the > sevaral maths components even if you don't like they way they have > happened. > > > There is a trend to make GH central to the development process > > (marginalizing "dev@" and JIRA and colonizing "issues@"). > > This is troubling me as well. Where "this" is that using github PRs > seems to keep the potential future committers away from the dev list and > they never become part of a component's community. > > We do get more contributions anf the quality of the codebases likely > improves because of this, but I feel it makes the community weaker. > Discussions only rarely happen "here" nowadays. > > There are a few people like Gary, Rob and a few others who manage to > devote time across almost all components and I adore them for that. And > we need them because most of the components wouldn't stand a chance to > get a release vote through without them. Our component communities have > become too small to sustain themselves and at the same time some of them > see more commits than they used to have in "the good old days" with many > people active on this list. > > I haven't got an answer to this. > > [Sidenote: In the early 90s I contributed to my first open source > project before CVS had a network protocol. I can not understand why > having to checkout a SCM repository, creating a patch and sending it to > somebody else is a burden that keeps people from contributing. I have > learnt to accept this as a fact. There are lots of facts I cannot > explain. And yes, I know I sound old. I am :-)] > > Stefan > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org > >
[all] github (was Re: [VOTE] Create additional mailing lists for automated posts)
This is an attempt at answering something raised be Gilles in a different thread. I'm afraid it is getting longer than I intended. Something seems to need to get out. Sorry. On 2020-07-23, Gilles Sadowski wrote: > I missed the turn where this project's PMC decided that we must > be present on GH in order to continue what some of us have been > doing for more than 10 years. The project decided to set up github mirrors and with the exposure to github you get the rest of the package. I don't remember whether we had an explicit vote about enabling github mirrors, much less whether it has been a component by component decision. Putting aside what I think about github as a company one thing that I have observed with projects migrating to github across the board is it seems to lower the barrier for new contributors. This results in two things: (1) you get more contributions and (2) the contributors usually don't stick around, most contributions are drive-by one-off contributions. Gilles, I believe you have seen an uptick in contributions to the sevaral maths components even if you don't like they way they have happened. > There is a trend to make GH central to the development process > (marginalizing "dev@" and JIRA and colonizing "issues@"). This is troubling me as well. Where "this" is that using github PRs seems to keep the potential future committers away from the dev list and they never become part of a component's community. We do get more contributions anf the quality of the codebases likely improves because of this, but I feel it makes the community weaker. Discussions only rarely happen "here" nowadays. There are a few people like Gary, Rob and a few others who manage to devote time across almost all components and I adore them for that. And we need them because most of the components wouldn't stand a chance to get a release vote through without them. Our component communities have become too small to sustain themselves and at the same time some of them see more commits than they used to have in "the good old days" with many people active on this list. I haven't got an answer to this. [Sidenote: In the early 90s I contributed to my first open source project before CVS had a network protocol. I can not understand why having to checkout a SCM repository, creating a patch and sending it to somebody else is a burden that keeps people from contributing. I have learnt to accept this as a fact. There are lots of facts I cannot explain. And yes, I know I sound old. I am :-)] Stefan - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org
