Conferences - Open Source Stack

[Niclas Hedhman]

In case you haven't seen; 
https://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2023/04/10/run-an-open-source-powered-virtual-conference/


Niclas

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Re: Triage role on Github

[Niclas Hedhman]

This "elder" thinks this is all good, but you *could* rely more on social,
rather than technical, solutions to achieve what you want without needing
Infra assistance. If the concept is introduced in a given project, where
people are given commit rights, with the explicit expectations only to use
it for "triage" then I think it will be respected. Classic reference is
Subversion project, which gives a social grant to a part of the codebase,
although there is no technical means to prevent a committer to mess it up.
But, if they do, it is easily restored and actions can be taken depending
on the nature of the reason.


// Niclas

On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 5:20 PM Paul Angus  wrote:

> Hi Members,
>
> One of our (CloudStack) comitters has come with a great idea to increase
> project contributions...
>
> Traditionally Github has been very binary, you're either a commiter and
> you can write to a Repo and perform Issue and Pull Request admin (like add
> labels, change status, etc), or you aren't a comitter and 'sucks to be you'.
>
> Githib has introduced a 'Triage' role which bridges the gap.  The Triage
> role, allows issue and pull request admin, but still blocks writing to the
> actual code. [1]
>
> I guess we'd need a mechanism to control/add contributors to the Triage
> team per project, kinda like Karma for Confluence.
>
> I think that would be a great stepping stone for contributors to get more
> involved in projects, so I'd like to gather support from other projects and
> the ASF 'elders' for the principle.
>
> Many thanks
>
> Paul Angus
>
> [1]
> https://docs.github.com/en/github/setting-up-and-managing-organizations-and-teams/repository-permission-levels-for-an-organization
>
>

Re: Vetoes for New Committers??

[Niclas Hedhman]

That's reassuring, but how does that relate to defaulting to vetoes for
personnel?

Your statement about Board intervening could be said for Joe's/Ted's claim
about "letting the minority be heard" as well... and doesn't support or
undermine the use of vetoes for personnel.

Cheers



On Apr 5, 2017 07:49, "Marvin Humphrey" <mar...@rectangular.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 4:26 PM, Niclas Hedhman <hedh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Vetoes can become very contentious, and I don't really buy the arguments
> > presented in favor of using it. To me a negative use is a BDFL-type
> > leader/founder preventing active contributors from getting a say in a
> > project.
>
> If a personnel vote is contended, and it doesn't show up in a Board
> report, the PMC Chair is not upholding their responsibilities and
> should be sacked. But even if it does get omitted, at least one
> Director is probably scanning each project's private list once per
> quarter and will likely flag the issue.
>
> Contended personnel votes are not common. The Board has enough
> bandwidth to review them and curtail egregious abuse.
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>
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Re: Vetoes for New Committers??

[Niclas Hedhman]

But Ted, how does the minority regain the "minority's voice heard" simply
by veto of new members? If they place unreasonable vetoes and hope that
over time the majority will "evaporate" seems unproductive as well.

Vetoes can become very contentious, and I don't really buy the arguments
presented in favor of using it. To me a negative use is a BDFL-type
leader/founder preventing active contributors from getting a say in a
project.

The raised problem of community disharmony is not served with vetoes,
AFAICT.



On Apr 4, 2017 14:06, "Ted Dunning"  wrote:

I hear it as the voice of (occasionally bitter) experience.

It could easily be my own voice as well. I have found in my own limited
experience that communities who pay attention to minority voices to be far
better at producing real consensus. I have also found that people with a
majority-rules opinion often change their opinion to minority-must-be-heard
when they are no longer in the majority. That matches what Joe said pretty
closely.

His phrasing might not be what I would use, but his experience seems to
match mine quite closely.

I also really don't see how a valid statement of long experience is FUD. I
certainly see a healthy dose of FUD in my day job from competitors and
Joe's statement is pretty different.


On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 10:36 PM, Pierre Smits 
wrote:

> That borders on FUD.
>
> Op di 4 apr. 2017 om 05:03 schreef Joseph Schaefer
> 
>
> > Trust me niclas, you would be singing a very different tune if you
> > believed something like that were happening in a project you were
working
> > on and you were a member of the minority powerless to put a halt to it.
>
>

Re: Vetoes for New Committers??

[Niclas Hedhman]

Well, isn't that a weak argument, since said company already have majority
and with vetoes can also block to loose such majority. If this happens, I
would assume that someone in the PMC would bring it to Board's attention to
look into the matter, as the only course of action against a malevolent
company taking control of a project, no matter which voting system you
apply.

Cheers
Niclas

On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Joseph Schaefer <
joe_schae...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

> The downside to majority rule when it comes to personnel voting is that it
> can lead to a situation where a company having a majority on the pmc can
> increase their majority by voting in additional employees without the
> minority having any way to provide a check on that exercise of power.  Yes
> this has come up in the past.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 28, 2017, at 8:03 PM, Niclas Hedhman <nic...@hedhman.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > on https://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html#new-committer-process
> it
> > describes the process of bringing in a new committer for a "typical
> > project".
> >
> > But in the "Discussion" it speaks of "3 +1 and no vetoes"... Is it really
> > "typical" that projects use vetoes for new committers? I can't recall
> > seeing that anywhere, not saying it is incorrect, but asking whether it
> > really is "typical".
> >
> > Perhaps we should provide links to a handful of well-known project's
> > processes, to both give a template for projects to work with as well as
> > different approaches.
> >
> > Anyone has any opinion on this matter?
> >
> > Cheers
> > --
> > Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> > http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java
>
>
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-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Vetoes for New Committers??

[Niclas Hedhman]

Hi,
on https://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html#new-committer-process it
describes the process of bringing in a new committer for a "typical
project".

But in the "Discussion" it speaks of "3 +1 and no vetoes"... Is it really
"typical" that projects use vetoes for new committers? I can't recall
seeing that anywhere, not saying it is incorrect, but asking whether it
really is "typical".

Perhaps we should provide links to a handful of well-known project's
processes, to both give a template for projects to work with as well as
different approaches.

Anyone has any opinion on this matter?

Cheers
-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Social Media Roster of the ASF

[Niclas Hedhman]

Why private area and not a web page?

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 6:04 PM, Raphael Bircher <rbircherapa...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi all
>
> During the Facebook page setup we find out, that we have no overview over
> our social media channels. It would be good to have a social media roster
> somewhere in the private area (maybe Committers?)
> With the project, the URL and who manages the social media.
>
> What do you think about it?
>
> Regards, Raphael
>
> --
> My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU
>
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-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://polygene.apache.org <http://zest.apache.org> - New Energy for Java

Re: Apache and Java

[Niclas Hedhman]

First of all, we don't want language wars here, and as you correctly point
out, the language is a tool and more often than not it isn't the "problem
at hand" that defines which language to use, but which language most people
in the group are good at. And some languages are harder to be good at, and
that would also indirectly play a role. I seldom see "language features" as
a direct drive, although it happens, such as choosing Erlang for its Actor
model or dynamic types of Ruby or JavaScript. But it is almost always more
common to start "who do we have on the team". Then of course there are some
crazy companies that create their own generic language for their own use (I
worked at one such company that had more than 1 in-house language in their
portfolio)...

For Apache, most projects here had a "start" somewhere else and then "came
to ASF", so there is no "we (the ASF) should have done X in language Y"
instead. However, there are examples of language "regrets" expressed by
project founders or the surviving community. I recall seeing Damien Katz
say he regretted choosing Erlang because of both performance as well as not
easy to find people to help out. Apache Storm is in Clojure and they are
taking a 'clone in java' into the project as their version 2.0, if I
understand it correctly.

In general, projects of any language, or "many languages", are welcome at
Apache. And hopefully we will be able to get that message out better in the
future.



On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Sagiruddin Mondal <sagir.sa...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> A quick thought I want to add .. can we extend this discussion for,
>
> 1. What ASF project should have been done in other language apart from JAVA
> ? and Why ?
> 2. In the current time JAVA is massive but what feature is lacking in java
> which gives other language a chance to this sport event ?
>
>
> PS. I do not see any language matters when we are solving a problem.
> Language is just a medium and all the languages are the more or less in the
> same plane in this case. But a lot of attendees to ASF are quite
> comfortable in JAVA could be another reason. Could not be ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Sagir
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 2:33 PM, Niclas Hedhman <nic...@hedhman.org>
> wrote:
>
> > I think it is a combination of several factors;
> >
> >   * Historical - The first non-httpd project in Apache was Java, followed
> > by a handful of others.
> >
> >   * Java is one of the big languages.
> >
> >   * Some projects are spin-offs from other ASF projects
> >
> >   * External Java projects knows Apache Java projects very well, through
> > Ant, Maven, Commons, Tomcat and many other they use. So if they seek a
> new
> > home, ASF is one of the obvious choices. For C/C++, C#, Ruby and Python,
> > this is not necessarily the case. There is often no natural tie between a
> > random solo project in these languages and ASF.
> >
> >   * The above is creating a reinforcement feedback loop, giving the
> > impression that ASF is all about Java and perhaps overlooked for other
> > platforms when seeking a new home.
> >
> >
> > Hope that helps.
> > Niclas
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Spaghetti Roulette <
> > spaghettiroule...@mail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Why do Apache projects use Java so extensively? It looks to me that a
> lot
> > > of projects, if not most of them, are written in Java, and I can't get
> my
> > > head around this fact. Is there any reason, perhaps technical, or is it
> > > just coincidence?
> > >
> > > -
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> > http://polygene.apache.org <http://zest.apache.org> - New Energy for
> Java
> >
>



-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://polygene.apache.org <http://zest.apache.org> - New Energy for Java

Re: Apache and Java

[Niclas Hedhman]

I think it is a combination of several factors;

  * Historical - The first non-httpd project in Apache was Java, followed
by a handful of others.

  * Java is one of the big languages.

  * Some projects are spin-offs from other ASF projects

  * External Java projects knows Apache Java projects very well, through
Ant, Maven, Commons, Tomcat and many other they use. So if they seek a new
home, ASF is one of the obvious choices. For C/C++, C#, Ruby and Python,
this is not necessarily the case. There is often no natural tie between a
random solo project in these languages and ASF.

  * The above is creating a reinforcement feedback loop, giving the
impression that ASF is all about Java and perhaps overlooked for other
platforms when seeking a new home.


Hope that helps.
Niclas

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Spaghetti Roulette <
spaghettiroule...@mail.com> wrote:

> Why do Apache projects use Java so extensively? It looks to me that a lot
> of projects, if not most of them, are written in Java, and I can't get my
> head around this fact. Is there any reason, perhaps technical, or is it
> just coincidence?
>
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-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://polygene.apache.org <http://zest.apache.org> - New Energy for Java

Re: Committer Diversity Survey - Infra Related Feedback

[Niclas Hedhman]

On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 5:52 PM, Isabel Drost-Fromm <isa...@apache.org>
wrote:
> I personally don't think re-building github on our side is a good idea -
I don't
> think this is particularly cost-effective. With that in mind I'm
following our
> experiments to use github as master but replicating the project history
to our
> servers with interest.
>
> I'd love to hear other opinions here!

Convince GitLab to come to ASF, and we would have the solution and people
willing to set it up... ;-)
There is no food like dog food.

However, I am not confident that they can be convinced, as they have had a
fair amount of success on their own.


Cheers
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Zest still listed at helpwanted.a.o

[Niclas Hedhman]

Daniel,
I created those tasks, and I can't figure out how to Edit or Mark Done of
these. After logging in as niclas@a.o, I have the choice of creating new
tasks or "I'm interested in this" for any given tasks. There doesn't seem
to be any other choices.

Cheers
Niclas

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 3:22 AM, Daniel Gruno <humbed...@apache.org> wrote:

> On 02/20/2017 06:13 PM, Paul Merlin wrote:
> > Hi Community Development!
> >
> > The Apache Zest project has been renamed to Apache Polygene lately.
> > There still are references to "Zest" on https://helpwanted.apache.org/
> >
> > Zest is no more listed when creating new HelpWanted tasks, Polygene is.
> > This is good.
> >
> > Some existing tasks are still assigned to Zest.
> > I couldn't find a way to edit existing tasks to change this myself.
> >
> > How can we fix this?
>
> Hi Paul,
> I believe whoever made those tasks can log in on helpwanted and mark
> them as done to have them go away.
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
> >
> > Thanks in advance!
> >
> > /Paul
> >
> >
>
>
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>


-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://polygene.apache.org <http://zest.apache.org> - New Energy for Java

Re: Profile photos and ASF values

[Niclas Hedhman]

As Ted pointed out, it is an ancient symbol found in most Far East
mythology and the Hindu religion. "Out here" you will find it quite often,
on shops, temples and business cards. It doesn't "carry weight" unless it
comes in black on white, with the Nazi proportions of widths. The Nazi one
was also at an angle.

We all know that in this instance, there is no malignant intent, and should
not require any action.

And we have not had any case of "red and black" and "something needs to be
said" as far as I know.

But the 'solution' is relatively simple; ASF is a non-political
organization, and expression of political views (such as showing political
allegiance, berating political figures, commenting on political activity,
and so on) is not acceptable, regardless if that is a hate organization
like the Nazis or more moderate political statements that many may agree
with, say recent elections in the world or outbreaks of war. We should not
be involved, I think we are even obliged by Law to not be involved.

Cheers
Niclas

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 7:58 AM, Andrew Palumbo <ap@outlook.com> wrote:

> I am pretty new around here and don't know if this is a more private room
> for ASF members .. but my .02:  of it is in red and black, then something
> needs to be said.
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Ted Dunning <ted.dunn...@gmail.com>
> Date: 01/31/2017 3:50 PM (GMT-08:00)
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Profile photos and ASF values
>
> Yeah... I twitched when I saw that.
>
> My suspicion is that this is being used in the ancient, pre-nazi sense.
>
> It is hard to believe that somebody is ignorant of the impact it must have
> on some readers.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Christopher <ctubb...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > It is surprising to me that a certain individual participant in ASF
> forums
> > seems to be using a swastika as their Google profile photo. The impact of
> > this is that ASF users which use GMail to interact with the mailing
> lists,
> > are presented with this swastika whenever reading or interacting with ASF
> > forums using GMail.
> >
> > To be clear, this symbol can have alternate meanings, and it may not be
> > intentionally being used as Nazi symbol. Additionally, even if this
> > individual holds to certain ideologies which may be antithetical to ASF
> > community inclusive values, they may act entirely professional and in
> > accordance with ASF code of conduct on Apache forums. So, I don't want to
> > imply that the profile photo is indicative of their ASF interactions...
> it
> > may be an entirely separate thing.
> >
> > My main inquiry here is to question whether or not there is a concern,
> > because the use of such profile photos may actually have consequences of
> > deterring potential new committers, because Apache may be indicted by
> > association.
> >
> > Is there something we wish to do about this? Is it a non-issue? I really
> > don't know. All I know, is my gut tells me that I'm bothered when I see
> it
> > (I use GMail). But, I don't want to overreact, or start a witch hunt. I'm
> > genuinely curious if this is something we want to address at all.
> >
> > If the profile photo is used on ASF infrastructure (JIRA, affiliated as a
> > member of the Apache org on GitHub, etc.), then I think we probably do
> want
> > to address it in the Code of Conduct. However, unrelated services like
> > Google profile photos... that may not be something we want to address,
> > because the web mail client users use is not related to ASF services
> (even
> > if it were know for user that it impacted ASF community by deterring
> > potential new community members).
> >
> > In any case, I don't raise this issue to demean the individual whose
> > profile photo came to my attention... this is not an attack on them.
> Again,
> > this is not a witch hunt.
> > --
> > Christopher
> >
>



-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://polygene.apache.org <http://zest.apache.org> - New Energy for Java

Re: Working Ecosystems at ASF

[Niclas Hedhman]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 10:48 AM, Hadrian Zbarcea <hzbar...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> David, your answer gets 5 stars from me.

Ditto... End of the day, the money for said paid developers will be coming
from some monetary contributors, and instead of fighting that they have no
say in how the money is to be spent, we can simply say "Hire the developers
yourself, and do the work you see most fit for you.", which is what happens
in reality.

If you look at the "local time of commits", I think it is pretty clear that
a large portion of all contributions are "at work" or "paid for". And we
are fine with that...

A more interesting question would be; Are projects allowed "Hire a
community member" pages, where individuals can announce their availability
to get paid to work on features or even downstream application of their
Apache Foo project? I can't recall seeing that, although there are such
pages referencing hiring entire companies for this. So, I am curious
whether a market actually exist... since I have on a couple of occasions
secured freelance contracts (without the advert/announcement of
availability) at ASF projects.


Cheers
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://polygene.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

[Niclas Hedhman]

Shawn,
maybe, just maybe, the twitter-activists will spot this and descend on the
ASF with vengeance, realizing that the Apache License (and all software
that uses it) is sexist, racist and bigoted, since it doesn't prevent
sexists, racists and other haters from using our software. And WE, the
ASF,  do nothing about that. WE are on the side of the haters. This is the
logic that is applied elsewhere.
That is one of the fears _I_ have about digging in this. It is like
searching for patents...

And YES, I am on the side of free usage of the software we produce, even by
people I am diametrically opposed to. I think it is not ASF's mission to
determine that line in the sand. All this is a political issue, disguised
with a "it is good for us" label, and many here look at the label and go
"Yeah, I favor that."

I hope I am wrong about ASF ending up being a target by the outside SJW
activists, that we are too small to bother with. But let it be known, it
has now been a predicted possibility... so don't be shocked if it happens.

Sharan,
About the numbers;
1. Most of the registered committers have been inactive for years, many
have never been active in the past and was part of a bulk inclusion of
committers via a podling coming in.

2. Are there similar surveys available for say Linux Kernel, Debian or
GNU/FSF (i.e. other low-visibility, highly technical FOSS projects) ??

3. The survey was targeted at committers. Shouldn't we also find out who
"uses" our software. After all, by-and-large, we attract our committers
from our users ("who has an itch to scratch"). That is a primary point of
"conversion" and if the selection pool is not much different from the stats
that you have now collected... (yes, speculation) ... does that mean we are
done? It is also much harder to reach that group.

4. When will the scrubbed raw data be available for the community?


Cheers
Niclas


On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Shawn McKinney <smckin...@symas.com>
wrote:

>
> > On Dec 19, 2016, at 8:31 PM, Peter West <p...@pbw.id.au> wrote:
> >
> > The ASF has free software, freely produced by anyone who wants to put
> his or her hand up.  Talk about “diversity” is deeply divisive, and all of
> the BS that accompanies it is the antithesis of freedom.  It is the impulse
> of petty totalitarians who are determined to impose their views on others,
> and to marginalise and denigrate and demonise those who think…diversely.
> Need I mention Brendan Eich here?
> >
> > So keep this stuff out of the ASF, please.  You are free to pursue
> whatever other (non-software) obsessions you like in your own time, and
> those big software houses with their diversity departments will accomodate
> you at work.
>
> Confused by this viewpoint.  Here we have a set of statistics (thanks
> Sharon) that provides insight into the types of people that participate.
> If that info can then be put into use and expands our committer base beyond
> the typical into the atypical we would then produce more/better software.
> What’s wrong with that?  I see only practical usages from this but maybe
> I’m just being naive?
>
> Shawn
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-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Diversity: How many disabled people are at Apache

[Niclas Hedhman]

My claim is that we are not competent to dig in it, and papers that Joan
pointed towards even states that diversity is not a sure positive (yes, I
read...)

My position is that there is no one stopping anyone to join (unlimited
positions available, unlike job positions, university seats and board room
chairs), and no foundation-wide action is needed. And that the "push" for
gender/race/++ diversity "initiatives" is a storm in a water glass,
compared to the elephant in the room; English only dev@ communications...
Something no one dares to touch, but is much, much more exclusionary than
anything you can come with.

S,
I never said, nor implied, that women (or any other underrepresented group)
are not competent. One highly speculative idea is that many find places
where the skills are better utilized, gives better return, or could be
deeply psychological about other priorities in life... I could speculate
that we are a miserable bunch, who find joy in the boring process of
writing software, that is not very visible, no glory and doing so without
pay... That women are underrepresented in CS is not ASF's fault, hope you
can agree with that, and then it could be that there is a amplification
effect in ASF and possibly other low-profile, highly technical
organization. And I am convinced that whoever dig in this, will only come
to their own preconceived conclusion.

So YES, you projected a position onto me, and that was dishonest at best...
don't put words in my mouth. I feel offended.

Cheers and have a good weekend

Niclas

On Dec 15, 2016 21:17, "Naomi Slater" <nsla...@apache.org> wrote:

> first of all, you make a 'category' that in this case encompasses roughly
half the population. Then you make the strawman that I claim that this huge
category has no skills. Dishonest, at best.

I didn't claim that. I said it was an implication of your line of thought.
How else will you justify female participation levels at Apache that are
dramatically lower than, say, American computer science degree programs.



On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 at 22:19 Rich Bowen <rbo...@rcbowen.com> wrote:



On 12/14/2016 10:22 AM, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> Rich,
> I know that diversity is sold as self-interest and that more diverse
> communities are (claimed to be, but I have not found any such reference to
> studies in software, but I can grant that) creating better products. I am
> not as ignorant as you may think. Take a look at ROSE[1]. "I would like a
> job in Technology" shows an incredible disparity between boys and girls in
> rich countries. One can ponder over that one alone for a long time...
> "Working with People rather than Things" will then make you wonder some
> more...
> Other people are devoting research careers to this topic, and I don't
think
> the ASF has needed competence to do this properly.
>
>
> [1] Relevance of Science Education (ROSE) study, Sjøberg & Schreiner 2010

I don't think you're ignorant at all. I know for a fact that you're not.
Which is why I'm actually taking the time to try to understand what your
perspective is on this.

--
Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen
http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon

Re: Diversity: How many disabled people are at Apache

[Niclas Hedhman]

Noah,
first of all, you make a 'category' that in this case encompasses roughly
half the population. Then you make the strawman that I claim that this huge
category has no skills. Dishonest, at best.

Yes, there are plenty of people with disadvantage for joining ASF. You need
a computer, which a majority of people in world don't have and can't afford
one. You more or less need somewhat steady Internet connectivity, which is
also outside the reach of a large portion of the population. You need
English skills to some degree, not only read and write, which is also
excluding at least half the world. You need interest in software or perhaps
some related aspects of what we do. You need time, again something that
many people don't have. And yes, you need some skills, no doubt, although I
am not sure which ones. You need to agree with the principle of the Apache
License, which many people (of those privileged few who pass everything
else) don't.
Is it ASF's mission to solve these disadvantages? I hope that is not what
you are trying to say...

Rich,
I know that diversity is sold as self-interest and that more diverse
communities are (claimed to be, but I have not found any such reference to
studies in software, but I can grant that) creating better products. I am
not as ignorant as you may think. Take a look at ROSE[1]. "I would like a
job in Technology" shows an incredible disparity between boys and girls in
rich countries. One can ponder over that one alone for a long time...
"Working with People rather than Things" will then make you wonder some
more...
Other people are devoting research careers to this topic, and I don't think
the ASF has needed competence to do this properly.


[1] Relevance of Science Education (ROSE) study, Sjøberg & Schreiner 2010


Cheers

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 6:59 PM, Noah Slater <nsla...@apache.org> wrote:

> > Now, this is what I know as "equality in opportunity" and is why I am
> somewhat skeptical to efforts focused on increasing so called diversity for
> the sake of diversity, also known as "equality in outcome".
>
> The implication of this line of thought is that, for example, women have
> the opportunity to contribute to Apache and simply lack the skills to do
> so. (I hope this sounds as absurd and as grossly offensive to the other
> people on this list as it does to me.)
>
> If women CHOOSE not to contribute, then we ought to start thinking about
> why they would choose not to contribute. It might be the case, for example,
> that Apache isn't a very hospitable place for women. And if that's the case
> then, how accurate is it really to say we provide "equal opportunity".
>
> Or perhaps it is the case that women are disadvantaged by society in ways
> that make contributing to Apache hard (for example, not having the economic
> security or free time necessary to contribute). And if that's the case, if
> our organisation is only accessible to certain types of people, then how
> accurate is it really to say we provide "equal opportunity".
>
> Given that Apache exists to produce software for the public good (an
> inherently political goal) it behooves us to understand the political
> forces at work that impede our ability to grow and look after a community
> of people who can help us do that.
>
> On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 at 09:06 William A Rowe Jr <wr...@rowe-clan.net>
> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Niclas Hedhman <nic...@hedhman.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Now, this is what I know as "equality in opportunity" and is why I am
> > > somewhat skeptical to efforts focused on increasing so called diversity
> > for
> > > the sake of diversity, also known as "equality in outcome". IMHO, a
> > highly
> > > politicized topic, something that ASF traditionally has stayed away
> from,
> > > except when it comes to "identity politics", because everyone is scared
> > of
> > > being classified in the negative.
> > >
> >
> > Understanding your skepticism, is there a reason for you to project that
> > into many other individuals' interests and concerns? It seems like a sort
> > or rude way to inject your politics into a sincere inquiry. For that
> > matter,
> > although I hadn't known of individuals at the ASF (I might know them, but
> > am unaware) - I've known many physically disabled computer scientists
> > who find some amazing adaptive technologies to let them do what they
> > want to do, and in our thousands of committers, already trust that there
> > are dozens in our lot who are doing fine. [Edit to add, you and I are
> very
> > familiar with one specific individual within the membership, but I'

Re: Diversity: How many disabled people are at Apache

[Niclas Hedhman]

Raphael,

Great that you find ASF a good place to express your energy. I think that
your question is a kind of testament to the culture at ASF, one where it
doesn't matter who one are, where one is from and what one's specific
circumstances are. We all cherish the ideas and efforts that anyone,
literally anyone[1], brings to the tables. Most of us don't track the
characteristics of individuals, don't care if they belong to some (in other
areas) disadvantaged group and (I think) is treated according to their own
behavior.

I could say that I owe ASF a big deal for my own career, as I didn't go to
university but what I learned a lot here, and efforts recognized by
industry led to pretty good outcome for me, something probably a lot harder
without ASF (and similar orgs) and without a Bachelor or Master degree. A
paper that I didn't need to get my hands dirty.

Now, this is what I know as "equality in opportunity" and is why I am
somewhat skeptical to efforts focused on increasing so called diversity for
the sake of diversity, also known as "equality in outcome". IMHO, a highly
politicized topic, something that ASF traditionally has stayed away from,
except when it comes to "identity politics", because everyone is scared of
being classified in the negative.

Anyway, I have no problem with people wanting to connect with others within
ASF realm, regardless of reason, so this is only an opportunity to
highlight my position on the 'diversity issue' at ASF, not in any way
criticizing you for reaching out.


[1] In Apache Zest, we had a professional, classical musician creating an
example project, and in that gave a lot of useful feedback. When we found
out that he never worked in software, we were all quite surprised, as his
work was of remarkably high caliber. I think this is rather common...

Cheers
Niclas

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 5:09 AM, Raphael Bircher <rbircherapa...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi people
>
> The question is in the subject: It would just be interesting. Ok, many
> people allready know, I have a physical disability called ICP (Infantile
> cerebral palsy). I just want to know, if there are others.
>
> I think, ASF could be a chance for disabled people to get work. The model
> of the ASF is perfect for this. You can get in without having any diplom or
> reference. Here everyone can get the chance.
>
> Regards, Raphael
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: proposal for a GSoC post-mortem survey

[Niclas Hedhman]

OTOH, surveys is an interesting service, since it doesn't have to be
maintained forever. As long as the output data is committed into source
control, it can be taken down without consequence. Which is radically
different from Wikis, trackers and so on...

Cheers
Niclas

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 10:47 PM, Ulrich Stärk <u...@apache.org> wrote:

> On 07.12.16 11:32, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> > On 12/07/2016 11:29 AM, Ulrich Stärk wrote:
> >> On 07.12.16 10:26, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> >>> Hi Uli,
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:59 AM, Ulrich Stärk <u...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>> ...I want to propose a post-mortem survey that
> >>>> hopefully captures a more complete picture
> >>>
> >>> Instead of a survey, how about asking GsoC mentors to send a note here
> >>> about their GSoC success or failure story? We can send them your list
> >>> of questions as a guide, but IMO if we get stories that's more
> >>> powerful.
> >>>
> >>> We can also point them to our private list if they really have
> >>> sensitive stuff to report,
> >>
> >> I saw this as a middle ground between Rich's position of having easy to
> digest data and mine aimed
> >> at getting a as complete as possible picture.
> >>
> >> Also I think that filling out a survey might appeal to more folks than
> writing up a lengthy story.
> >
> > I've been toying with the idea of comdev maybe providing a survey
> > mechanism for the wider ASF for various surveys (instead of relying on
> > 3rd parties, also this would enable proper committer/PMC verification as
> > an option). This would be a great incentive to get started on that idea
> :)
>
> Please don't. Others out there do it much better and more dedicated then
> we can ever do. We might
> discuss getting a corporate account with one of the vendors out there and
> maybe they offer oauth
> integration, but that would require a clear business case.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Uli
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Want to Contribute

[Niclas Hedhman]

On the other hand, it is typically easier to find a smaller project to help
out on. The appreciation is much higher and possibly you will more quickly
gain influence in the project.

Cheers
Niclas

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 4:33 PM, Raphael Bircher <rbircherapa...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Shayak
>
> Ok, that's not my area. I think you can just go to the dev List of Hadoop
> and introduce your self. I'm sure they help you to get in. If not, come
> back here and ask again.
>
> Kind regards,
> Raphael
>
>
>
> Am 12/6/2016 um 9:20 AM schrieb Shayak Sadhu:
>
>> Hello Raphael,
>> I am well accustomed to C,Java and Python programming. I have some
>> experience in research works (plz check out my google scholar profile for
>> more info). I am now learning big data analytics tools like Hadoop and
>> Hive. I do have some hands-on hadoop.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Shayak Sadhu
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Raphael Bircher <rbircherapa...@gmail.com
>> >
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Shayak
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 12/6/2016 um 8:22 AM schrieb Shayak Sadhu:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>> I want to contribute to any project for Apache Foundation.
>>>>
>>>> Nice, maybe you can tell us a bit more about your skills and your
>>> interest. It's easier to find a project
>>>
>>> Regards, Raphael
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Want to find more contributors for your Apache project?

[Niclas Hedhman]

I am also experiencing the same trend. It is easy to click "Interested",
even if there is no real energy behind that interest. I have tried the
smoothest and most hand-holding ways, but even fail to get an email
response. I am also in the dozen or two responses,
So I think we need to either accept a very high signal-noise ratio, or come
up with a better way of engagement.

Cheers
Niclas

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:15 PM, Rich Bowen <rbo...@rcbowen.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 11/28/2016 11:16 PM, Jordan Zimmerman wrote:
> > Anyone having success with helpwanted.apache.org <
> http://helpwanted.apache.org/>? I’ve gotten a dozen or so responses (for
> Apache Curator). Not one of them has even bothered to subscribe to the
> email list. I always thank them for their interest and point them at the
> bug DB, etc. and then - nothing. I’m afraid this is attracting folks
> looking for a quick bump for the CVs :(
> >
>
> I would do two things:
>
> 1) Point people at lists.apache.org rather than asking them to subscribe
> to the mailing list. The effect is the same, but lists.apache.org is
> much easier for people unfamiliar with the whole subscribe dance.
>
> 2) Don't just point people to the bug DB. Point them to a specific
> issue, and then hold their hand a little while they go through the
> process. Getting beginners involved is a contact-intensive process. You
> can't just push them in the right direction and hope for the best. You
> have to actively mentor. Having specific tasks that people are asked to
> do is incredibly encouraging for a beginner who has no idea how to get
> started. If you point me to the bug DB, I'm going to poke around for
> five minutes and leave in frustration.
>
> --Rich
>
>
> >> On Apr 11, 2016, at 9:55 PM, Shane Curcuru <a...@shanecurcuru.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> ComDev has a new service for posting "help wanted" bugs for newcomers:
> >>
> >>  https://helpwanted.apache.org/ <https://helpwanted.apache.org/>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen
> http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
>
>


-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: My keynote from Apache Big Data on Hortonworks internal Apache training

[Niclas Hedhman]

Really cool stuff!!

One tip; Maybe point out that earned merit in Apache projects doesn't end
if someone move away from Hortonworks. In effect, it is an edge in the CV.

Cheers
Niclas

On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 11:34 PM, Alan Gates <alanfga...@gmail.com> wrote:

> All,
>
> As those who were at Apache Big Data in Seville saw, I gave a keynote
> there where I discussed Hortonworks doing internal training on Apache.
> Rich suggested that I might want to bring this conversation to the comdev
> list, hence this email.
>
> I’m happy to share the contents of the training on the community website
> if people think that will be useful.  You can see the slides from the
> keynote at [1] and the slides from our training at [2].  The training
> covers Apache and the Apache way, a little bit about licenses and the
> Apache license, why Hortonworks chooses to work with Apache, how our
> employees should handle their dual roles as Hortonworkers and Apache
> community members, a set of best practices and things to avoid, and a brief
> discussion of trademarks.
>
> Several others have said their companies need something similar.  If you
> find them useful you’re free to use our slides as starting point, and I’m
> happy to share insights from our experience.
>
> Alan.
>
> [1] http://www.slideshare.net/alanfgates/keynote-apache-bdeunov2016
> [2] http://www.slideshare.net/alanfgates/hortonworks-apache-training
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Encouraging Diversity - Update 6

[Niclas Hedhman]

Sam,
you are conflating the concerns. This is not ON/OFF logic, with a possibly
more than one dimension of shading and positioning one (relatively extreme)
case as the norm for how to interact, is not the way to deal with this.
 (analogy; "Person killed in traffic. Ban all cars.")

Niclas

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 9:46 AM, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 8:38 PM, Niclas Hedhman <nic...@hedhman.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > 3. IGNORE IT
> >
> > You don't have to read what other people write, you don't have to
> > internalize it and you may convince others to do the same. For 20 years,
> > this was the number one defense against trolls and poisonous people.
>
> Strongly disagree.
>
> I want an ASF that grows communities.
>
> This is not to be accomplished by giving trolls and poisonous people
> an unchecked playground to perform whatever mischief satisfies
> whatever internal urge they have.  And to tell the targets of this
> individual to just ignore it.
>
> I provided a link previously describing an experience I had.  I hope
> that you can appreciate that "just ignore it" was not the right advice
> for that situation.
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Encouraging Diversity - Update 6

[Niclas Hedhman]

On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 6:54 AM, Noah Slater <nsla...@apache.org> wrote:

> Okay, back to the topic.
>

Ok, good.


> Perhaps we should update the code of conduct. It seems that a lot of the
> unease here relates to the nature of our planned responses to conduct
> infractions.
>

That is one part, the second is something I still don't fully grasp, which
is the "feel safe". I want to feel safe that it is Ok to have a differing
opinion, even if that differing opinion is that feeling safe is highly
subjective and is difficult to hold to somewhat consistent standards. This
simple statement, makes this an impossible proposition.



> There are two types of response:
>
> 1. Restorative justice
>
> This is where we speak to the person who violated one of our community
> standards. We tell them that what they did was not acceptable. Sometimes
> this is enough. They apologise and things are fixed.
>

I am sure that this is relatively common. And that is great.


> Sometimes they don't, and you need to work with them to help them
> understand why it wasn't acceptable. Sometimes you need to work with the
> person or people who were affected. Sometimes you need to undo the damage
> that wad done.
>

So, "this thread being an example", I don't "get" that I have violated any
community standards, and no one have tried to "work with me to help me
understand why it wasn't acceptable", and possibly I will never understand
it... where do you go from there?


2. Punitive justice
>
> This is where the violation was so severe, or the person is so resistant to
> change, that you have to take some sort of measure by force.


Ok, that has happen previously in ASF, and justifiably so in those cases
that I have heard of.



> It should go without saying that this should always be the last step.
>

Great, I agree.


> (In the past I have erred on the side of being too patient with people who
> are clearly not willing to change. Keeping people like that around can
> really damage a community.)
>

 And you left out (perhaps unaware of if) the best tool that I use to
filter my life from things that damage my feelings;

3. IGNORE IT

You don't have to read what other people write, you don't have to
internalize it and you may convince others to do the same. For 20 years,
this was the number one defense against trolls and poisonous people. It is
also my own defense against racism (yeah, I am on the receiving end), if I
get affected, then they won!

This is of course not the proper track when personal attacks and name
calling is going on (for which your 1. and 2. are logical), but I get the
impression that a wider net (feel safe) is being laid here, and hence why I
propose the change (I would like a comment on that) in Sharan's page.


Cheers
-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Documented Process for archiving project/module?

[Niclas Hedhman]

Is anything wrong with that the PMC is handling this on a
project-by-project basis?

Likewise, you could say similar "communicating that status to the larger
public community" for just about every aspect of a project's life, and that
those are inconsistent across the ASF.

* Release cycles
* Programming Language
* Versioning conventions
* Git vs Svn
* Number of repositories
* Number of release artifacts
* Use of issue tracker vs mailing lists
* Number of mailing lists in a project
* Barrier level for becoming committer and PMC member
* Responsiveness to external patches
* Maturity level
* Build systems
* Prerequisites

I have always viewed that as a strength rather than a weakness. So my
simple question is; Why is software development lifecycle management any
different to any of the above?

Cheers
Niclas

On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 6:52 AM, Shane Curcuru <a...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote:

> Do we have an overview of the whole decision/action process around
> retiring each of a podling, a TLP, and a module/subproject within a TLP?
>
> I know the Attic has technical process documentation - but do we have a
> guide for the whole process, starting with either a community member (or
> the board!) noticing a project is mostly inactive, to actually deciding
> it's not active enough to be maintained, etc.?
>
> The board regularly sees or hears about projects or modules that aren't
> active, and want to retire.  But we aren't consistent across the ASF at
> communicating that status to the larger *public* community - sometimes
> it's just the PMC list that decides and moves to the board.
>
> Just an idea...
>
> - Shane
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Encouraging Diversity - Update 6

[Niclas Hedhman]

Noah,
ASF has not gotten to where it is by generalizations and abstractions of
nonexistent issues. Whenever anyone brings up a hypothetical, be it in
Legal or Membership quorums, the response is that we deal with it when
there are actual usecases.
I am asking for examples, some type of record to consume to form myself an
opinion of whether anything new is needed. If such pragmatism hurts your
feelings, well... I might pity you for being too sensitive, but it is not
an argument and you are not convincing me of anything.


Cheers
Niclas

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 7:12 AM, Noah Slater <nsla...@apache.org> wrote:

> I took a leave of absence from the ASF for over a year (my previous email
> on this thread was one of my first since returning) precisely because the
> treatment I got on these mailing lists was so deleterious for my mental
> health that I had to take a break, for my safety.
>
> Positioning *war* as the canonical example of un-safety is a poor one.
> There are many forms of safety. Feeling like a community is a good place
> for you to inhabit, feeling like it wont harm you (emotionally, mentally,
> or otherwise) is well within the remit of safety that we, as a
> community-focused org, should be concerned about.
>
>
> On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 at 10:32 Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > On 14/11/2016 00:52, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> > > On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 4:58 AM, Sharan Foga <sha...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >> *General Diversity Approach and Strategy*
> > >> I haven't had much time to update this on the wiki but once the
> > committer
> > >> survey is complete I will be able to perhaps tailor it based on the
> > results.
> > >>
> > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/
> > >> Diversity+Strategy+Ideas
> > >>
> > >> I'm still interested in getting feedback and ideas from anyone about
> > ways
> > >> to develop the strategy and actions we can take to help encourage
> > diversity.
> >
> > 
> >
> > > So; What does "feel safe" mean?
> > > In this context, it must be a first world non-problem. Because I doubt
> > that
> > > you think ASF committers will be hit by drone strikes if their location
> > is
> > > known, that an unfortunate email will cause terrorist attacks or
> > indirectly
> > > causing thermo-nuclear war. "Safe" means that there is no imminent
> danger
> > > to our lives and physical health. Maslow's somewhat revised hierarchy
> > also
> > > includes "financial security" as it quite directly affects our
> survival.
> > > "Safe" doesn't encompass "not feeling happy", "I was offended" and
> other
> > > non-sense.
> > > If you against all odds are talking about real safety; I can't imagine
> > that
> > > anyone became more unsafe after joining ASF communities. Right?
> >
> > Wrong. There are examples of people being threatened and/or assaulted
> > directly as a result of their participation in an ASF community. I'm one
> > of them.
> >
> > I whole-heartedly support the work that Sharan is doing this area. I am
> > of the view that the phrase "feel safe" is an critical element of the
> > desired outcomes and should remain.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
> >
> >
>



-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Metrics & Baseline Reporting to Apache

[Niclas Hedhman]

Trust me, I was not offended by your request, more "surprised" and somewhat
"so what do you want from us". And maybe I should have dug up
http://www.openhub.com that provides these kind of metrics, and I know of
one other effort as well, but can't find the link (possibly not public yet).

I am just one peer here, and other people may have other opinion. In no way
is my reply a stance of ASF itself, but I think you understand that.

Good Luck
Niclas

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Alfred Webber <atweb...@wimss.com> wrote:

> Hi Niclas,
>
>
>
> I’m not sure I wanted anyone to jump up and down as If I discovered water
> on Mars J.  This is not a new concept or idea.  I simply haven’t seen it
> being published and thought it would be a nice thing.
>
>
>
> Of course, just because I haven’t seen it, doesn’t make it innovative and,
> of course, the technology involve is not earth shattering in the least and
> I never suggested as much.  In fact, I even mentioned that it may
> *already* be done.   I think that a simple message pointing me to the
> other efforts, if they are published, would have been a more appropriate
> response as that is what I suggested was a possibility in my message.
>
>
>
> I understand the concept of ASF.  I understand that there are no
> “teams”.   The teams I was referencing were *external* teams.   I did,
> however, assume that there may be some gate-keeper[s] (team leads) for the
> ASF tools like Jira, SVN , and Jenkins and that I might need some
> understanding around access to these tools, Jira in particular.   I am very
> familiar with the tools but access to query Jira beyond the 100 record
> limit would require additional information.
>
>
>
> Nicla, at times, I work on projects where teams are reluctant to use open
> source code.   This reluctance is, of course, largely unfounded.   Even in
> 2010 and beyond, I have had to fight to get tools like Jenkins, Maven,
> Rundeck, Nagios, Nexus, Python, etc. ‘approved’  I’m sure others know this
> pain.  By showing these teams that open source is ran more predictably and
> is usually more repeatable than many in-house projects, it would have some
> benefit.   The tools already in use by ASF do a *wonderful* job, I was
> simply looking for something that was more abstract/agnostic from the tools
> as some teams don’t use the same tools as ASF.  I wanted metrics capturing
> that looked at the lifecycle of the open source effort in total without
> respect of the tools that captured the data.   For example, something like
> an Elastic Search dashboard that gave a full view of the SDLC without
> having to go to Jira, Jenkins, SVN, etc. separately.
>
>
>
> Sometimes in our field we can take offense when none was intended.  I
> think this was one of those times.  If anyone in the Apache dev community
> was offended by my request, please know that was not my goal.  I value your
> work and champion your efforts on all projects!  The entire IT community is
> in your debt.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks a billion,
>
>
>
>
>
> -Alfred
>
>
>
> *From:* hedh...@gmail.com [mailto:hedh...@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Niclas
> Hedhman
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 13, 2016 5:51 PM
> *To:* Alfred Webber <atweb...@wimss.com>
> *Cc:* dev@community.apache.org
> *Subject:* Re: Metrics & Baseline Reporting to Apache
>
>
>
> Forgot to use Alfred's mail address, as I suspect he is not subscribed...
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Niclas Hedhman <nic...@hedhman.org>
> wrote:
>
> Alfred,
>
> The first metric that you should learn is that there are no "teams" and no
> "team leads" in ASF. There are Apache projects, and they are populated by
> individuals, operating independently of any organizational structure.
>
>
>
> Secondly, you are welcome to collect, collate and chart any information
> that you want, as many other organizations and individuals have done in the
> past. I don't see anything new or remarkably innovative by your effort, so
> I can't imagine that anyone within the ASF will jump up and down in
> excitement over your request.
>
>
>
>
>
> Good Luck
>
> Niclas
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 3:09 AM, Alfred Webber <atweb...@wimss.com> wrote:
>
> Hi team,
>
>
>
>
>
> I am a SCM/Dev OPS Architect.   I would like to offer advanced CM Metrics
> and analysis features to the Apache project if you have not already done it
> or have any plans to do so.   I would like to discuss this with team leads
> if possible.  I will host the metrics if necessary as a benefit to the team.
>
>
>
> The metrics will collect, collate, and c

Re: Encouraging Diversity - Update 6

[Niclas Hedhman]

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 4:58 AM, Sharan Foga <sha...@apache.org> wrote:

> *General Diversity Approach and Strategy*
> I haven't had much time to update this on the wiki but once the committer
> survey is complete I will be able to perhaps tailor it based on the results.
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/
> Diversity+Strategy+Ideas
>
> I'm still interested in getting feedback and ideas from anyone about ways
> to develop the strategy and actions we can take to help encourage diversity.
>

You should probably know by now that I will always have "negative feedback"
(I am from electronics background... ;-) ) and since you are asking for it.

IMVHO, you have well-intended motivations for doing this, but I only see
"social justice movement" rhetoric and lack of fully thinking things
through.

Instead of tearing everything down, I will criticize a single thing until
that is solved, before moving on to the next on the list (or simply stop).

So; What does "feel safe" mean?
In this context, it must be a first world non-problem. Because I doubt that
you think ASF committers will be hit by drone strikes if their location is
known, that an unfortunate email will cause terrorist attacks or indirectly
causing thermo-nuclear war. "Safe" means that there is no imminent danger
to our lives and physical health. Maslow's somewhat revised hierarchy also
includes "financial security" as it quite directly affects our survival.
"Safe" doesn't encompass "not feeling happy", "I was offended" and other
non-sense.
If you against all odds are talking about real safety; I can't imagine that
anyone became more unsafe after joining ASF communities. Right?

Since I am sure you will defend the "not being offended" case, I take
offense that you think this is an issue. THERE! You have an unsolvable
situation, and no one gives anyone the right to decide where the "line of
offense" is, or being "arbitrator of happiness".
Therefore; "Feelings" are highly subjective, and doesn't belong on "code of
conduct" or similar lists of goals.

Also, ASF has a long history of "reactive behavior" rather than
prescriptive speculation. So, typically we first show what the problem is,
before discussing a solution. Bring actual examples and show that these are
"endorsed" by the overall consensus, and argue why it is not acceptable.
That approach will be respected by highly critical people like myself.

If you formulate it as; "should avoid to humiliate other people" or "try to
express yourself in a friendly and inclusive language" as a guide, then I
have no problem with that. Noah's suggestion of a culture of "Yes, and..."
and "forgiveness" are direct, easily agreeable and doesn't need
"enforcement" only "encouragement" and "highlighted" if breached.
But when the undertone is "enforce... others feeling not happy..." and
similar authoritarian language, then you have to wait until we old folks
(with memories of Soviet Union and Mao's China) have died off.


Cheers
-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Metrics & Baseline Reporting to Apache

[Niclas Hedhman]

Alfred,
The first metric that you should learn is that there are no "teams" and no
"team leads" in ASF. There are Apache projects, and they are populated by
individuals, operating independently of any organizational structure.

Secondly, you are welcome to collect, collate and chart any information
that you want, as many other organizations and individuals have done in the
past. I don't see anything new or remarkably innovative by your effort, so
I can't imagine that anyone within the ASF will jump up and down in
excitement over your request.


Good Luck
Niclas


On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 3:09 AM, Alfred Webber <atweb...@wimss.com> wrote:

> Hi team,
>
>
>
>
>
> I am a SCM/Dev OPS Architect.   I would like to offer advanced CM Metrics
> and analysis features to the Apache project if you have not already done it
> or have any plans to do so.   I would like to discuss this with team leads
> if possible.  I will host the metrics if necessary as a benefit to the team.
>
>
>
> The metrics will collect, collate, and chart information for all
> projects.  The data will be collected from
>
> 1.  SVN
>
> 2.  Jira
>
> 3.  Jenkins
>
> 4.  Sonar
>
> 5.  Etc.
>
>
>
> The metrics could be a boon for those teams that make use of Apache
> projects to see a BI approach to the efforts of the Apache team.   Of
> course, like other partners, it would benefit myself as well.  Having
> provided this kind of service to the Apache project would illustrate the
> acumen of myself and my team.
>
>
>
>
>
> I eagerly await your response J,
>
>
>
>
>
> -Alfred Webber
>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/atwebber>
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: recognizing valuable non-code contributions

[Niclas Hedhman]

Reminder, ASF has at least one *Member* who doesn't (didn't?) know how to
operate source control. But very valuable to the foundation in other ways.

Cheers

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 11:04 PM, sebb <seb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 14 October 2016 at 15:13, A. Soroka <aj...@virginia.edu> wrote:
> > I was responding to a previous message from Greg Chase:
> >
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/34f2f4859aac61141cfe903a692c58
> 06e50282eb6ca388a7f8959d35@%3Cdev.community.apache.org%3E
> >
> > but perhaps I read too much into his remark "As a frequent non-code
> contributor to several projects, having people like us as PMC (or PPMC)
> members seems to do the trick."
>
> I see.
>
> In order to commit, one must be a committer, but the reverse is not true.
> People with committer status don't have to commit code.
> They may commit docn or not commit at all.
>
> > ---
> > A. Soroka
> > The University of Virginia Library
> >
> >> On Oct 14, 2016, at 10:08 AM, sebb <seb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 14 October 2016 at 12:16, A. Soroka <aj...@virginia.edu> wrote:
> >>> Thanks, community thinkers!
> >>>
> >>> The consensus is overwhelming for being generous with committer status.
> >>>
> >>> (Additionally, just as a point of record, it seems that at least some
> projects are indeed giving PMC membership without committer status, so that
> does seem to be reasonable Apache-fu, when appropriate.)
> >>
> >> I'm not sure what you mean by "committer status" here.
> >>
> >> To become a PMC member currently requires an ASF login and this
> >> automatically gives committer karma on many projects.
> >> To get an ASF login requires an ICLA.
> >>
> >> AIUI there are no plans to relax these requirements.
> >>
> >>> ---
> >>> A. Soroka
> >>> The University of Virginia Library
> >>>
> >>>> On Oct 13, 2016, at 9:30 PM, Shane Curcuru <a...@shanecurcuru.org>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Luciano Resende wrote on 10/13/16 9:20 PM:
> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 6:06 PM, Rich Bowen <rbo...@rcbowen.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Oct 13, 2016 12:26, "Daniel Gruno" <humbed...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Top-posting because yay ponies!
> >>>>>>> We've elected people committers in HTTPd solely due to them
> helping out
> >>>>>>> on IRC. There is no rule that says you must write anything
> down in a
> >>>>>>> file (code or documentation or otherwise) to become a committer :)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Any contribution can count towards merit.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Also, more than one person who was made a docs committer on httpd
> went on
> >>>>>> to make small code contributions. And some not so small. Point
> being, when
> >>>>>> you extend trust, most people will rise to that level.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm a strong believer in handing out commit early and easy. If
> someone
> >>>>>> breaks something, revert it. No harm done.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> +1, I just wished some of the existing projects are watching this
> thread.
> >>>>>
> >>>> This is exactly the kind of helpful guidance that folks should feel
> free
> >>>> to write content for the ComDev website.  Much easier to share when
> it's
> >>>> at a permanent URL.
> >>>>
> >>>> https://community.apache.org/newbiefaq.html#websitecms
> >>>>
> >>>> And using the CMS, anyone can make suggested changes just from a web
> >>>> browser - even non-committers!
> >>>>
> >>>> - Shane
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
> >>>
> >>
> >> -
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
> >>
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
> >
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Addition to the project maturity model

[Niclas Hedhman]

That is an interesting one. And funny enough, there are two parts of that
IMHO.

1. Check out from source control repository, and re-produce a source
release build, resulting in a releasable artifact.

2. That the built artifact can be downloaded, and built for a given
platform/deployment.

In my project, we actually have the CI do the second step, verifying that
the release source artifact can be built on its own from tar file. I have
not seen that very often...

Cheers
Niclas

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 4:33 PM, Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:

> All,
>
> After a discussion on the general@incubator.a.o mailing list [1], I'd
> like to propose the following addition to the project maturity model.
>
> RE50
> The release process is documented and repeatable to the extent that
> someone new to the project is able to independently generate a release
> build.
>
>
> If there are no objections, I'll add this some time next week.
>
> Mark
>
> [1]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/cf6a2ea3b969dc0e81ce49650f4418
> ab2480492c612bd2cacdf070dc@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

RT - Our place in universe

[Niclas Hedhman]

"
*The Open Source Community is to Software Development,  what the Science
Community is to Technology*"
   -- Niclas Hedhman, 2016


-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Red Hat Request for Apache High Resolution Logos

[Niclas Hedhman]

Kay,
I think that although the Trademarks (logos included) are not free to use
willy-nilly, the source code of those resources are expected to be ALv2.
Source code accessibility doesn't define legal status of said source code.

Niclas



On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 4:30 AM, Kay Schenk <kay.sch...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Apache OpenOffice has had many problems with entities just "using" our
> logos without permission. We have instructions for what folks should do
> in the page we have on Trademarks.
>
> It is possible to "steal" a png rendering without much effort but the
> svgs are stored in a rather obscure svn area. When a logo use is
> requested, and we provide these once the request is approved. It would
> be great if such an area were established on a foundation-wide basis
> accessible by PMC members.
>
> On 07/22/2016 05:59 AM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Maybe it is a good idea to have the projects provide their logos to one
> of
> > our ASF offices. I can imagine that requests from outside agencies often
> > happen, and having 1 single shared source for marketing purposes etc.
> would
> > alleviate the need to search the various projects.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> >
> > Pierre Smits
> >
> > ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
> > OFBiz based solutions & services
> >
> > OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
> > http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 10:29 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz <
> > bdelacre...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Nicole,
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 7:06 PM, Nicole Bostock <nbost...@redhat.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>> ...We're looking
> >>> to develop a graphic about the open source community and need the
> >> following
> >>> vector or high resolution logos...
> >>
> >> Being a very distributed and federated organization, the ASF doesn't
> >> have a central place where we can collect those logos, you'll need to
> >> contact each individual project unfortunately, unless people from
> >> these projects chime in here.
> >>
> >> I have tweeted your request at
> >> https://twitter.com/bdelacretaz/status/756404805401182208 which might
> >> help...or not.
> >>
> >> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ describes how to use ASF logos
> >> in general.
> >>
> >> -Bertrand
> >>
> >> -
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> --
> 
> MzK
>
> "Time spent with cats is never wasted."
>-- Sigmund Freud
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: ombudsman@ (was Encouraging More Women to Participate on Apache Projects?)

[Niclas Hedhman]

Out of self-reflection, one should consider how much of this thread itself
emphasizes the antithesis of the OP... Just a thought!

Niclas

On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Marvin Humphrey <mar...@rectangular.com>
wrote:

> On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
> wrote:
> > On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 4:27 PM, Shane Curcuru <a...@shanecurcuru.org>
> wrote:
>
> >> I would prefer for President, EVP, directors to agree on a single email
> >> alias that is an unarchived alias, with a published list of the specific
> >> ASF Officers or Members that it goes to directly (names to be approved
> >> by President).
> >
> > That is exactly my preference as well.
> >
> > Marvin, at this point what I'm about to ask of you is grossly unfair
> (since
> > your proposal, apparently doesn't really make anything worse) but would
> > you consider the above statement by Shane to be your course of action?
>
> Sure. There are several approaches which I'd be fine with. Shane's
> approach above seems sound.
>
> Elsethread I see a preference stated for an officer of the ASF on the
> alias.  I don't think that's necessary, so long as we have the
> President's designates. I'm anticipating that it will be the
> individuals who have already stepped forward on members@apache, though
> they have not yet explicitly granted permission to have their names
> published.
>
> I'll work up a new patch tomorrow when I'm a little more awake.
>
> Marvin Humphrey
>



-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: ombudsman@ (was Encouraging More Women to Participate on Apache Projects?)

[Niclas Hedhman]

Is a president-private@ mail forward out of the question? If the president
is part of the problem, then inform to send to board-private@ instead?

Niclas

On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 8:25 AM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
wrote:

> On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 5:20 PM, Joe Schaefer
> <joe_schae...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
> > Roman,
> > I've been beating the archiving problem with president@ like a dead
> horse for the past week- what
> > on earth have you been reading to avoid that reality?
>
> Archiving per se is not a problem. If the archive is only available to
> the board I'm border line ok with that.
> What I didn't know (and it didn't come up in your emails) is that
> there could be other folks having access
> to the content of president@ who may or may not be on the board.
> That's a big, huge problem.
>
> > Furthermore, I doubt president@ has an associated qmail owner file,
> which means any addresses listed in that alias that go to domains whose
> mail servers do strict SPF checks will BOUNCE email from major email
> providers who publish such rules, and those bounce mails may wind up being
> DROPPED by Apache's qmail server since it's attempt to deliver the bounce
> mail back to the sender may also be REJECTED by the original sending domain.
>
> That is also a good point.
>
> > All of this leads to problems that, while some are fixable, others are
> simply not.
> > We need a better strategy, and it should be collaborative rather than
> dictatorial.
>
> Not sure what you mean, but as I said ideally I'd like it to be an
> alias for an officer
> appointed by the board. That's my MVP. What Shane suggested builds up on
> that
> and may provide an even better solution.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>



-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: The right Project

[Niclas Hedhman]

Well, this is not community therapy list. So, if you or anyone else have
personal problems of this kind, I strongly recommend you to seek
professional counseling of some sort, and not think that anyone here can
assist in any meaningful way.

Good Luck
Niclas

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 5:51 PM, Manny BB <usernamenotava...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> it might not be spam unfortunly i am living something like he described
> were my wife acused me of things i didnt do and has told my whole famly
> over last 10 years now days after our 14th annaversy i finly found the prof
> that she has been cheating including with mutible famly members and has
> been try to make me look nuts with help of people she convenced that she ia
> a victom. It was trying to undo her programs that lead me to this community
> hopping to get help that no one ever answered me on and even after she
> found out i found out how to see the 3d videos she hidden inside of other
> videos she is trying to convince me im nuts and seeing things. F.y.i. she
> used yaira as a gamer name in sommers wars.
>   So while i agree that he shouldnt blame a community of programers and
> want to be programers for how someone uses the programs i do think mabe a
> way of helping people victomtized with any program passed out here should
> be set up in case of something like he clames happened to him and whats
> happing to me can be stopped
> On 21/04/2016 02:53, Fabio Timpanaro wrote:
>
> 
>
> Apologies to all for the spam.
>
> I have unsubscribed this user from this mailing list.
>
> Mark
>



-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: SSH RSA host key on people.apache.org

[Niclas Hedhman]

Uhhh... Maybe I spoke too soon. Is the shell login removed completely as
well?

I guess I need to go learn the new ways of doing things then...

On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 7:56 AM, Niclas Hedhman <nic...@hedhman.org> wrote:

> Thanks a lot... Old dog needs to learn new tricks. ;-)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 7:52 AM, sebb <seb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 20 April 2016 at 00:48, Niclas Hedhman <nic...@hedhman.org> wrote:
>> > I haven't logged on to people.apache.org since I moved back to China in
>> > September.
>> >
>> > I now get a warning/error that the SSH RSA key on the host has changed.
>> Is
>> > that so? I can't find any notification from infra about it in my mail
>> > archive...
>>
>> The host people.a.o was retired and DNS now points it to home.apache.org.
>>
>> The original people.a.o host was also known as minotaur.a.o.
>>
>> SSH keys are here:
>>
>> http://apache.org/dev/machines#ssh-rsa-keys
>>
>> > The key I have in .ssh/known_hosts is
>> >
>> > people.apache.org,140.211.11.9 ssh-rsa
>> >
>> B3NzaC1yc2EBIwAAAIEA0d5l5RCrk0akFJ7vnt8DQ41A1fkZF4ynQyVFUNJ53uUNwOpuCqARxrVGaVlrlRE8MRukosD/7mKOGH44ArbtkAm6y88FTc0IUl9DUGlfrLXX971MSZ7zPRmVZG/7TfaJVfSEAlrx6qQJM4MqSDNvcrmfmB09ijGaeAuosG/afrc=
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > @@@
>> > @   WARNING: POSSIBLE DNS SPOOFING DETECTED!  @
>> > @@@
>> > The RSA host key for people.apache.org has changed,
>> > and the key for the corresponding IP address 163.172.16.173
>> > is unknown. This could either mean that
>> > DNS SPOOFING is happening or the IP address for the host
>> > and its host key have changed at the same time.
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> > --
>> > Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
>> > http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java
>



-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: SSH RSA host key on people.apache.org

[Niclas Hedhman]

Thanks a lot... Old dog needs to learn new tricks. ;-)



On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 7:52 AM, sebb <seb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 20 April 2016 at 00:48, Niclas Hedhman <nic...@hedhman.org> wrote:
> > I haven't logged on to people.apache.org since I moved back to China in
> > September.
> >
> > I now get a warning/error that the SSH RSA key on the host has changed.
> Is
> > that so? I can't find any notification from infra about it in my mail
> > archive...
>
> The host people.a.o was retired and DNS now points it to home.apache.org.
>
> The original people.a.o host was also known as minotaur.a.o.
>
> SSH keys are here:
>
> http://apache.org/dev/machines#ssh-rsa-keys
>
> > The key I have in .ssh/known_hosts is
> >
> > people.apache.org,140.211.11.9 ssh-rsa
> >
> B3NzaC1yc2EBIwAAAIEA0d5l5RCrk0akFJ7vnt8DQ41A1fkZF4ynQyVFUNJ53uUNwOpuCqARxrVGaVlrlRE8MRukosD/7mKOGH44ArbtkAm6y88FTc0IUl9DUGlfrLXX971MSZ7zPRmVZG/7TfaJVfSEAlrx6qQJM4MqSDNvcrmfmB09ijGaeAuosG/afrc=
> >
> >
> >
> > @@@
> > @   WARNING: POSSIBLE DNS SPOOFING DETECTED!  @
> > @@@
> > The RSA host key for people.apache.org has changed,
> > and the key for the corresponding IP address 163.172.16.173
> > is unknown. This could either mean that
> > DNS SPOOFING is happening or the IP address for the host
> > and its host key have changed at the same time.
> >
> > Cheers
> > --
> > Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> > http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java
>



-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

SSH RSA host key on people.apache.org

[Niclas Hedhman]

I haven't logged on to people.apache.org since I moved back to China in
September.

I now get a warning/error that the SSH RSA key on the host has changed. Is
that so? I can't find any notification from infra about it in my mail
archive...

The key I have in .ssh/known_hosts is

people.apache.org,140.211.11.9 ssh-rsa
B3NzaC1yc2EBIwAAAIEA0d5l5RCrk0akFJ7vnt8DQ41A1fkZF4ynQyVFUNJ53uUNwOpuCqARxrVGaVlrlRE8MRukosD/7mKOGH44ArbtkAm6y88FTc0IUl9DUGlfrLXX971MSZ7zPRmVZG/7TfaJVfSEAlrx6qQJM4MqSDNvcrmfmB09ijGaeAuosG/afrc=



@@@
@   WARNING: POSSIBLE DNS SPOOFING DETECTED!  @
@@@
The RSA host key for people.apache.org has changed,
and the key for the corresponding IP address 163.172.16.173
is unknown. This could either mean that
DNS SPOOFING is happening or the IP address for the host
and its host key have changed at the same time.

Cheers
-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Advice for community participation to lower tension

[Niclas Hedhman]

Don't count on it... Too much to do.
On Apr 9, 2016 18:20, "Ulrich Stärk" <u...@spielviel.de> wrote:

> Thanks Niclas!
>
> Any chance you can find the time to put this up at community.apache.org?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Uli
>
> On 09/04/16 03:50, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> > Everyone,
> > recently there was some tension/friction in a community, and I posted the
> > following advice to everyone to better get along. Not only did the
> > community members responded positively, but I also got pinged privately
> to
> > make this available publicly, so here it is, and I will let the wider
> > community do with it what it sees fit...
> >
> >
> > First a few general guidelines;
> >   a. Assume that the other party agrees more than disagrees with you. We
> > tend to leave out agreements and focus on differences. Sometime this is
> > forgotten and escalation becomes absurd for no rational reason.
> >
> >   b. When in doubt, assume that you are interpreting the message wrongly
> > and kindly ask for verification that you understood a particular topic
> well.
> >
> >   c. When writing, assume that every sentence will be misinterpreted.
> > Review and try to reformulate to be as clear as possible.
> >
> >   d. Use a submissive tone in all writing. Instead of the strong "In my
> > opinion, we must..." or the quite neutral "I think we should...", try to
> > use "Maybe we should consider..." or "Another idea that we could..."
> >
> >e. If you disagree strongly with an email sent, tag it Important, then
> > put it aside. Read it half a day later again. Put it aside. Read it again
> > next day, and then it is easier to write a balanced and inviting
> response,
> > instead of the initial vitriol that flows through us when we get upset. I
> > found that sometimes a response wouldn't be necessary, as the importance
> > was actually much lower than originally perceived, and I would be able to
> > work "with", instead of "against", a given change.
> >
> >   f. Be forgiving and accept different priorities. The other person is
> not
> > out to get you or attack your work. More often than not, it is one of the
> > above (a-d) that are failing, or that the other person prioritize some
> > aspect higher than you do. Sometimes, this requires compromises,
> sometimes
> > not and the different priorities can co-exist.
> >
> >
> > Most communities at Apache consists of level-headed, reasonable people,
> who
> > have a strong vested interest in its Apache project. This interest, often
> > passion, is both the source of tension, but it is also what unites the
> > people within the community. It is easy to forget the vast amount of
> > agreement that exists, and get upset over relatively small disagreements.
> > Ability to put that aside, or downplay the importance, will ensure a
> > harmonious project.
> >
> > Face-to-Face is excellent way to eliminate disagreements, but that is
> often
> > not practical. Consider Skype or Google Hangout, just for the social
> aspect
> > of being part of this community. It should not be formal, and the
> > invitation should go out to everyone, perhaps someone want to make a
> short
> > presentation of what he/she is doing, to have some "structure", but that
> > might not be needed either. Once we have a face to the words, and a
> general
> > idea how that person is socially, we are much more capable to interact by
> > email.
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> >
>

Advice for community participation to lower tension

[Niclas Hedhman]

Everyone,
recently there was some tension/friction in a community, and I posted the
following advice to everyone to better get along. Not only did the
community members responded positively, but I also got pinged privately to
make this available publicly, so here it is, and I will let the wider
community do with it what it sees fit...


First a few general guidelines;
  a. Assume that the other party agrees more than disagrees with you. We
tend to leave out agreements and focus on differences. Sometime this is
forgotten and escalation becomes absurd for no rational reason.

  b. When in doubt, assume that you are interpreting the message wrongly
and kindly ask for verification that you understood a particular topic well.

  c. When writing, assume that every sentence will be misinterpreted.
Review and try to reformulate to be as clear as possible.

  d. Use a submissive tone in all writing. Instead of the strong "In my
opinion, we must..." or the quite neutral "I think we should...", try to
use "Maybe we should consider..." or "Another idea that we could..."

   e. If you disagree strongly with an email sent, tag it Important, then
put it aside. Read it half a day later again. Put it aside. Read it again
next day, and then it is easier to write a balanced and inviting response,
instead of the initial vitriol that flows through us when we get upset. I
found that sometimes a response wouldn't be necessary, as the importance
was actually much lower than originally perceived, and I would be able to
work "with", instead of "against", a given change.

  f. Be forgiving and accept different priorities. The other person is not
out to get you or attack your work. More often than not, it is one of the
above (a-d) that are failing, or that the other person prioritize some
aspect higher than you do. Sometimes, this requires compromises, sometimes
not and the different priorities can co-exist.


Most communities at Apache consists of level-headed, reasonable people, who
have a strong vested interest in its Apache project. This interest, often
passion, is both the source of tension, but it is also what unites the
people within the community. It is easy to forget the vast amount of
agreement that exists, and get upset over relatively small disagreements.
Ability to put that aside, or downplay the importance, will ensure a
harmonious project.

Face-to-Face is excellent way to eliminate disagreements, but that is often
not practical. Consider Skype or Google Hangout, just for the social aspect
of being part of this community. It should not be formal, and the
invitation should go out to everyone, perhaps someone want to make a short
presentation of what he/she is doing, to have some "structure", but that
might not be needed either. Once we have a face to the words, and a general
idea how that person is socially, we are much more capable to interact by
email.


Cheers
-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Heads up...

[Niclas Hedhman]

Thanks a lot Bertrand... I will take a look when I am a bit sober. Right
now enjoying a holiday I my "home country" of Malaysia... Good to be warm
again...  ;-)
On Apr 7, 2016 17:41, "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bdelacre...@apache.org> wrote:

> Hi Niclas,
>
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Niclas Hedhman <nic...@hedhman.org>
> wrote:
> > ...I don't think I recorded the location of media templates and such,
> with new
> > logo and all...
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ has the logos.
>
> >
> >... Also if anyone want to forward me any feedback of what to cover, what
> to
> > skip in a 45 minute session, it would be greatly appreciated
>
> The links to general ASF presentations at
> http://community.apache.org/speakers/slides.html might help!
>
> My latest there is "open source at scale - the Apache Software
> Foundation" which I've been delivering in 45 minutes, trying to focus
> on the core of what we are.
>
> -Bertrand
>

Re: Process to upgrade ActiveMQ

[Niclas Hedhman]

Uma,
In case you didn't figure it out by now, the question was directed at the
wrong mailing list. This kind of questions need to go to the project in
question, and more often than not, to its user@ or users@ list.

See http://activemq.apache.org/mailing-lists.html for the Apache ActiveMQ
project.

Cheers
Niclas

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 8:41 PM, Alagarswamy, Uma <ualagarsw...@csc.com>
wrote:

> Hi
>
> We are in the process of upgrading Active MQ components in our product
> from 5.6 to 5.12, when we copied all the latest bundles and trying to use
> system we have come across some problems. We would like to understand if
> there is any authentic way to upgrade that tells what code changes needs to
> be done when migrating from a version to another? Or is there any
> information available out there that tells what code changes are required
> to be compatible. Upgrading directly by copying the latest bundles and then
> testing the system to see if it breaks and fix as it goes is like gambling
> to me.  I am looking for some knowledge base with the process that I could
> follow to ensure and assure my upgrade went well.
>
> Thanks
> Uma Alagarswamy
> CSC
>
> No 180 Capital Towers, Dr. M.G.R. Salai, Nungambakkam ,Chennai, Tamil Nadu
> 600034, India
> t +91 (0) 44 3038 4553 |m +91-9841726972 | ualagarsw...@csc.com  |
> www.csc.com
>
>
> Computer Sciences Corporation India Private Limited - 7th Floor, Block 1B,
> DLF IT Park, Sivaji Garden, Moonlight Stop, Nandambakkam Post, Ramapuram,
> Chennai - 600 089, Tamil Nadu. Registered in India, CIN:
> U60231TN1996PTC07. CSC - This is a PRIVATE message - If you are not the
> intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by
> e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail
> shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless
> pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly
> permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose.
>



-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Fwd: Contribution

[Niclas Hedhman]

Prajwal,

Not sure if you are subscribed to the mailing list or not, so I forward the
response to you, just in case...

Let me also add to Antoine's response; Some communities are busier than
others, and it can be overwhelming to join those. I recommend something
smaller, where the email traffic isn't too much and the pace of progress is
also not too rapid so that you can keep up. That said, the most important
aspect is still something that interests you.

Cheers
Niclas

-- Forwarded message --
From: <anto...@gmx.de>
Date: Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: Contribution
To: dev@community.apache.org


Hello Prajwal,

thanks for expressing the wish to contribute to Apache projects.

You should probably select one or two Apache projects that you feel are
interesting for you, and start looking at the JIRA issues reported against
them in issues.apache.org/jira and see whether some of the bugs or new
features requested by our community are topics that you would like to work
on. Each Apache project has a user and a dev mailing list which are the
primary means of communication so joining these lists is the first thing to
do. You can see a list of Apache projects under https://projects.apache.org/
.

Hope this helps,

Antoine

Sent from my android device.

-Original Message-
From: Prajwal Shimpi <prajwalshi...@gmail.com>
To: dev@community.apache.org
Sent: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 5:01 AM
Subject: Contribution

Hello
I am a student of third year engineering(computers).
I am keen on contributing to apache projects and also wish to contribute on
gsoc apache projects.kindly help me.
Thanking you
Prajwal



-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Accumulo Shell logging WARN : Found no client.conf in default paths. need suggestion.

[Niclas Hedhman]

Hi
You sent to the wrong list... I assume that it was a simple mistake of
address completion in the mail client.

Niclas

On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 10:37 PM, Ziaur Rahman <ziau...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> Accumulo dev, My accumulo-1.7.0 starts well with hadoop-2,7.1 and
> zookeeper-3.4.6 in 1GB conf native-standalone/standalone mode. But when I
> go to start shell it shows error like-
>
> "zia@zia-Aspire-V5-473:~$
> /home/zia/Installs/dbe/accumulo-1.7.0/bin/accumulo shell -u root -p
> asdfghjk
>
> 2015-12-24 15:17:05,544 [client.ClientConfiguration] WARN : Found no
> client.conf in default paths. Using default client configuration values.
>
> 2015-12-24 15:17:05,549 [client.ClientConfiguration] WARN : Found no
> client.conf in default paths. Using default client configuration values.
>
> 2015-12-24 15:17:06,476 [client.ClientConfiguration] WARN : Found no
> client.conf in default paths. Using default client configuration values.
>
> 2015-12-24 15:17:06,720 [trace.DistributedTrace] INFO : SpanReceiver
> org.apache.accumulo.tracer.ZooTraceClient was loaded successfully.
>
> 2015-12-24 15:17:06,772 [impl.ServerClient] WARN : There are no tablet
> servers: check that zookeeper and accumulo are running."
>
> In accumulo monitor shows- 1 tabletserver, 3 tables and 6 localhost
> clients.
>
> What can I do now? Would anybody show light on the problem?
>



-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China Community

[Niclas Hedhman]

Ted,
2 things...

1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011.

2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating organization. But
the ASF and many other open source projects are not command driven
top-down structures. So, there is very little "need" for "creation of
communities". They either form, or they don't.

I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow in Beijing
grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat older generation had a
more top-down approach, of wanting to build it like a company, like a
government or a religious organization. I hope that you can appreciate the
difference and channel your enthusiasm slightly differently.

Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, but I have
first hand witnessed the improvements in online translation services in the
past few years. Enormous improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where
this can be an additional tool to bridge this gap.

My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion, hacking,
presentations are conducted, by the participants, for the participants, a
peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't need to be formally involved in
this, but I am sure many Apache contributors would be happy to participate,
as peers, in such events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off both
projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other projects.

Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead of single
big one.

Keep up the positive work.

Niclas

On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <t...@microsoft.com> wrote:

> Hi Apache Community Development PMC,
>
> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache fans in
> China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev be possible? Please
> see the background and thoughts outlined below.
>
> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in China, such
> as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and public services.
> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and communities and
> enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE (www.kaiyuanshe.org<
> http://www.kaiyuanshe.org>, the first ground-up open source alliance
> chartered to promote open source governance and technologies in China and
> Asia with over 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the
> gaps between the leading international OSS communities, like ASF, and
> communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache roadshow was on 2009
> in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd be good to reboot the ASF
> engagement through another roadshow in China.
>
> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized by
> KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing with ASF's
> community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. Brett Porter, David
> Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason Dai. Please see more
> roadshow details here.
>
> - ASF "Foundation" blog http://s.apache.org/q2L<
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fs.apache.org%2fq2L=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1=BX9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d
> >
> - @TheASF Twitter feed
> https://twitter.com/TheASF/status/664920266397646848<
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftwitter.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC7CWhdX0GFRwPs%3d
> >
> - annou...@apache.org<mailto:annou...@apache.org> (and archives)
> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list
> - http://apache.org/<
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fapache.org%2f=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1=F1DdEAFN4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d>
> home page
>
> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to form a China
> community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who attended this roadshow
> and tens of thousands people who did not have time or were unaware of the
> events. So far, there already are many volunteers, including Apache
> members, PMC members, committers, contributors, developers and users, who
> are willing to join the China community steering committee and working
> groups to help grow the talents, projects and community in China and bridge
> between ASF and the fans in China following the Apache way.
>
> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache fans in China
> or how to form a new China-specific project at the ComDev would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
>
> Ted Liu
> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China
> Co-founding member of KAIYUANSHE
>

Re: Apache Software Foundation Projects and DevOps

[Niclas Hedhman]

Akond,
Unless I misunderstand what you are asking for, I don't think the question
is relevant.

Projects create software, but very few (if any) projects provide their
software as an online service.
Some projects, however, target the DevOps communities directly, such as
Apache Mesos and many other projects are used by DevOps in the Enterprise
around the world. It is also very possible that individuals working on the
Apache projects, do apply Continuous Deployment and other practices at
their day job, with those Apache projects. I have no example of this, but
it wouldn't surprise me...

Apache Software Foundation itself runs many services to be provided to
projects for them to do their job. This includes Continuous Integration
applications, source control systems, mailing lists and much more. The
infrastructure team is a seasoned operations team with rather strong
development skills. You could call them DevOps if you like, but possibly
not the definition that you work with.

Hope that helps.
Niclas

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 6:00 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980) <
chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:

> Should probably ask this on the ComDev list, CC’ed (BCC to
> webmaster@)
>
> ++
> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> Chief Architect
> Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398)
> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> Office: 168-519, Mailstop: 168-527
> Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov
> WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> ++
> Adjunct Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> ++
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Akond Rahman <aarah...@ncsu.edu>
> Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 12:58 PM
> To: "webmas...@apache.org" <webmas...@apache.org>
> Subject: Apache Software Foundation Projects and DevOps
>
> >Greetings,
> >
> >
> >I am a second year PhD student and I am looking for project repositories
> >such as
> >
> >project source code, project version history, bug history etc. that are
> >used
> >
> >in DevOps shops and the products they deliver. My question for you is:
> >does Apache software
> >
> >
> >foundation use DevOps or continuous delivery
> >principles/policies/practices for their
> >
> >
> >projects? If so which projects and what are their versions?
> >
> >
> >Any kind of feedback will be greatly appreciated.
> >
> >--
> >Sincerely,
> >Akond Rahman,
> >
> >Graduate Teaching Assistant,
> >
> >Department of CSC, NCSU
> >Website: http://akondrahman.github.io/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>


-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Seen on FSF site;

[Niclas Hedhman]

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-recommendations.html

Under "Small programs..."

"Among the lax pushover licenses, Apache 2.0 is best; so if you are going
to use a lax pushover license, whatever the reason, we recommend using that
one."

;-)

Cheers
-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Moving Apache Extras

[Niclas Hedhman]

Yes, ASF "central" has no strong opinion on the matter and delegates this
totally to the PMCs.

It is useful that this kind of feedback reaches ComDev, so projects learn
from each other and can make informed decisions.

Cheers
Niclas

On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 12:43 AM, Raul Kripalani <ra...@apache.org> wrote:

> At Apache Camel we use camel-extras to host Camel components/modules that
> depend on 3rd party dependencies that are incompatible with ASLv2.
>
> After briefly discussing with some committers / contributors on our mailing
> lists, I get the impression that most folks would prefer to migrate
> camel-extras to Github rather than SF. Since enabling the ASF Camel Github
> mirror, we have processed 600+ pull requests and I'd venture a guess that
> our generous contributors prefer the Github model for collaborating. In
> fact, some of our most engaged camel-extras committers have expressed their
> dislike for SF – so imposing SF to camel-extras will be like delivering a
> deathblow to the project, as we'll be risking losing those contributors.
>
> Therefore, my question is: are projects obliged to host their extras on the
> ASF's selected platform (Sourceforge)? By reading [1] my conclusion is
> 'no', as extras projects don't belong to the ASF nor do they have to follow
> the ASF organisational model or policies. I'm pretty sure that a VOTE on
> our list would yield Github as the preferred new home.
>
> [1] https://community.apache.org/apache-extras/faq.html
>
> Thanks,
>
> *Raúl Kripalani*
> Apache Camel PMC Member & Committer | Enterprise Architect, Open Source
> Integration specialist
> http://about.me/raulkripalani | http://www.linkedin.com/in/raulkripalani
> http://blog.raulkr.net | twitter: @raulvk
>
> On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 4:24 PM, Victor NOËL <victor.n...@linagora.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I come in a bit late on the discussion (I hope I won't break the mail
> > threading, I don't have a message to answer to…).
> > We were discussing the subject on camel-users and I was wondering if you
> > were aware of the very problematic behaviour of SourceForge?
> >
> > I am referring to the following story with the Gimp project:
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/08/gimp_dumps_sourceforge_over_dodgy_ads_and_installer/
> >
> > Basically, they started putting adware and spyware in installers of
> > opensource projects without their consent.
> > After Gimp removed themselves from SourceForge, they continued by
> > impersonating them, see:
> >
> >
> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list/2015-May/msg00097.html
> >
> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-developer-list/2015-May/msg00098.html
> >
> > Do we really want apache extra to be hosted by an organisation like that?
> >
> > Just my 2cents… sorry for arriving so late in the discussion.
> >
> > Victor
> > --
> >
> >
> > Vous utilisez la version libre et gratuite d'OBM, développée et supportée
> > par Linagora.
> > Contribuez à la R du produit en souscrivant à une offre entreprise.
> > http://pro.obm.org/ - http://www.linagora.com
> >
>



-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: slack

[Niclas Hedhman]

Yes, this has been mulled dozens of times over the years, and this if it
didn't happen on mailing list it didn't happened at all is the bottom
line. Note; the maturity model doesn't mention mailing lists, other than
footnote 11 talking about what happens outside public space.

However, one person thinking and writing something to said list, does this
thinking and writing off line. Likewise, 2 people could be thinking and
writing such thing to said list, and I would argue that its quality could
be much better (both technically as well as communicative). So, it is not
the happens off-line that is really the springing point, it is how the
thinking is brought to the list.

I and X went through 'this problem' yesterday, and we solved it this
way isn't acceptable, but perhaps a I and X has looked at 'this
problem' yesterday, and we think that if we do... Comments? is more in
line with our culture.

After all, one person thinking off-line (which is necessary) is no
different than two people thinking off-line. One person putting together a
patch isn't any different than a pair is writing the same patch.

Offline, even cubicle level, CAN be beneficial and it is all about how the
interaction with the larger community is handled. I think (and try to live
by) the litmus test is Small reversible steps, with pause to reflect in
between and hence applies both to single individuals and 5 people working
in the same room.

It also the single most annoying thing for me in commercial development...
The rush forward is at such a high pace, that quality feedback can almost
never be provided, people place critique on individual lines, not to the
over-arching approach, because that is to intrusive and potentially
disruptive.


Cheers
Niclas

On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 1:35 AM, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com
wrote:

 I think it's important to recognize how the board and the foundation
 have handled this issue over time.

 The absolute requirement is open decision-making. Avoiding real-time
 communications avoids many possible failures of open decision-making.
 (Not, of course, all.) After all, the simplest primrose path here is
 two people standing at the intersection of their cubicles. The policy
 has always been to sternly warn that the use of real time mechanisms
 involves risks of failure, and that failure involves risks of the
 board's blunt instruments being deployed. Does all of this slow down
 some processes, and cause some people of limited patience / boundless
 energy to get frustrated? Yup, things have costs.

 Just writing up the results on the mailing list isn't good enough if
 there is no real opportunity for people to question, deliberate, and
 change the course of action.

 You want to have a bar camp, a con call, a slack discussion, a set of
 messages exchanged by carrier pigeon? Then it's up to you to make sure
 that you don't end up excluding people from the decision-making
 process.




-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: What is the legal basis for enforcing release policies at ASF?

[Niclas Hedhman]

Bill,
So I can release Niclas Hadoop platform, based on Apache Hadoop ?? I
thought the discussion a few years ago was that this was misleading...



On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 12:30 PM, William A Rowe Jr wr...@rowe-clan.net
wrote:

 On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 7:50 PM, Roman Shaposhnik ro...@shaposhnik.org
 wrote:

  Hi!
 
  while answering a question on release policies and ALv2
  I've suddenly realized that I really don't know what is the
  legal basis for enforcing release policies we've got
  documented over here:
 http://www.apache.org/dev/release.html
 
  For example, what would be the legal basis for stopping
  a 3d party from releasing a snapshot of ASF's project
  source tree and claim it to be a release X.Y.Z of said
  project?
 

 Nothing other than the Trademarks.

 If someone wants to call httpd trunk 3.0.1-GA, they cannot do this as
 Apache httpd 3.0.1-GA or Apache HTTP Server 3.0.1-GA.

 They can certainly release trunk under the AL license and call it Kindred
 Http Server 3.0.1-GA, based on Apache HTTP Server. That is a statement of
 fact and not an abuse of the mark, IMHO. (If it was not actually based on
 Apache HTTP Server, then that would similarly be a Trademark infringement
 as it is a false use of the mark.)

 There are no less than two marks, one is the name of the foundation itself
 in conjunction with Open Source Software, and the other is the specific
 project name.




-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: GitHub Pages

[Niclas Hedhman]

We (developers) always discuss tools for making documentation easier. But
we (developers) will always cite another hurdle (with tools) for not
contributing more to documentation. In a lot of cases, it doesn't matter
how easy the tools become, it is still the same heroic lot of people whoc
write the docs. Doesn't matter if that is HTML, xdoc. Anakia, docbook,
Maven text, Asciidoc, CMSes, Wiki, Jekyll or gh-pages. The unwilling will
always be able to raise a reason why he can't contribute...

And as a rather active doc writer, I am happy when receiving contributions
in any form, such as email on mailing list, big or small, and I'll gladly
put that in myself. I'd probably be happy with an audio contribution as
well. It isn't the typing that is the hard part, it is coming up with the
accurate Content.

My 2 cents to this never ending debate... ;-)

Cheers
Niclas

On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 12:23 AM, Christopher ctubb...@apache.org wrote:

 On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 11:51 AM, Owen O'Malley omal...@apache.org wrote:
  On Mon, Aug 3, 2015 at 8:22 AM, Stian Soiland-Reyes st...@apache.org
  wrote:
 
  This looks good.
 
  So do I understand any of the commiters editing the site would still
  need to run Jekyll manually and push (how?), or is there a GitHub like
  autobuild?
 
 
  It is manual, so it isn't as easy as github pages. However, I find that
  generally I want to run jekyll locally first anyways to debug my changes.
 

 FWIW, GitHub pages is pretty easy to debug (non-local): push to
 gh-pages in a fork, before doing a PR against the gh-pages branch. If
 ASF ever did provide automated rendering, this is one reason I'd want
 it to be gh-pages compatible (because users who don't/can't have the
 build tools locally, can still make helpful contributions).




-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Office Calc crash

[Niclas Hedhman]

Elaine,
Unfortunately you are turning to the wrong mailing list. Apache is a large
community of ~300 projects, of which Apache Open Office is a relatively
small part. This mailing list discusses issues that are common across all
projects, and not specific to any particular piece of software.

I think you should contact, us...@openoffice.apache.org, which might
require you to so called subscribe first to be guaranteed to reach it.
See
http://openoffice.apache.org/mailing-lists.html#users-mailing-list-public
for details on that.

Good Luck
Niclas

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 8:48 PM, Elaine Berger elainegber...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Hello,

 I was updating a list of companies that I have built up for a month and
 after updating my latest entry, the spreadsheet just closed on me. When
 reopening it, lots of entries were gone. That is a whole day work. I have
 used this list for follow up of out coming mail. In all, 60 companies are
 gone along with their addresses, phone numbers and contact person.

 I was not able to retrieve a previous version. It is saved on a USB key who
 was not saving previous copies (Now it is!)

 Is there somehow a way to retrieve those data?

 And by the way, I have experienced lots of software crashes with the Calc
 program.

 Thanks for your help!

 Elaine




-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Q: Is Apache Open Office a 501 c3 charity

[Niclas Hedhman]

Did you forget Kevin's email address? Perhaps a separate forward...

// Niclas

On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 10:39 PM, Antoine Levy Lambert anto...@gmx.de
wrote:

 Hi Kevin,

 Apache Open Office by itself is a project within the Apache Software
 Foundation.
 The Apache Software Foundation has 501 c3 status as per this : [1]
 referred by this page : [2]
 It is also mentioned directly on our web site : [3]

 Regards,

 Antoine
 [1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/records/ASF-501c3.pdf
 [2] http://www.apache.org/foundation/records/
 [3] http://www.apache.org/foundation/faq.html

 On Jul 8, 2015, at 3:05 PM, kjo...@aol.com wrote:

 
  Hi Dev,
  Q: Is Apache Open Office a 501 c3 charity?
  Charitable Organization
 
  Kevin
 
  Dr. Kevin Joe, DC
  1370 Brea Blvd., 120   Fullerton, CA  92831
  (714) 447-3361(O)
 
 
 
 
 
 




-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Incubating, Graduating Code of conduct @ The ASF (spin-off of Better specifying....)

[Niclas Hedhman]

Since Apache Zest (where I am the PMC Chair) was mentioned about called out
by the Board to create by-laws, I got curious to understand where that came
from, since I couldn't recall such order.

In reality, I wrote (copied) it myself in the Board Resolution to create
the project in the first place;

quote
RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Zest Project be and hereby
   is tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
   encourage open development and increased participation in the
   Apache Zest Project.
/quote

My guess is that this is a standard text from way back in time. Last time I
was involved in establishing a new project (Avalon) before Incubator, we
had a pointer to the Jakarta by-laws and I think that was perpetuated to a
point where it become the default position, until Jakarta is retired and
the origin of the default is gone.

Pierre may have a point in that the Board Resolution text could be
formulated differently to reflect this default and lazy position.

//Niclas
On Jul 4, 2015 18:35, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote:

  Having such an official ASF policy without the executing office policing
  it, without podlings being required to accept and instill it in their
  bylaws before graduation and allowing existing projects not to
 incorporate
  it makes it nothing more than a hollow statement,
 
  Being part of IPMC, I thought it was part of the incubator to make sure
 that
  exactly this happened.

 Having done a cursory review of the incubator reports to the board for this
 year (January till May/June 2015), I found that only the SAMOA podling
 reported working on a project set of bylaws, which without knowing details
 could encompass and/or incorporate the code of conduct.
 None of the other podlings reported about that. Having looked also at the
 board reports for January up to May 2015 I found that podlings graduating
 to TLP were either tasked by the board to establish a set of bylaws or not.

 This tells me that acceptance/incorporation of the code of conduct of the
 ASF by the podlings is not a requirement.
 It might also mean - given the code of conduct as it is today - that IPMC
 members (as mentors) are either not fully aware that
 acceptance/incorporation is part of incubation process, or that they
 consider it optional.

 What I also observed from the board reports (minutes) from Jan till May is
 that while graduating podlings (as part of their establisment as a TLP)
 where tasked by the board to create a set of bylaws, that up to now those
 projects (Apache Whimsy, Apache Orc, Apache Parquet, Apache Aurora, Apache
 Zest) don't reference anything about a set of bylaws.
 And one graduating (Apache Samza) was not tasked with creating a set of
 bylaws at all by the board.

 It seems to me that this viewpoint of flexibility for projects has led to
 various approaches applied during the incubation phase. Making it harder to
 tell a unified story to the outside world...
 The Code of Conduct affects more the community aspect while being under the
 umbrella of the ASF than the code aspect. The Code of Conduct and the
 Apache Way (community over code) is foremost about how the contributors
 interact. About how to do just to all contributors, not how to favour a
 few
 The bylaws of a project should reflect how that is done, meaning defining
 the rules regarding procedural matters (which culminates about how the
 project deals with onboarding and ofboarding of contributors visavis
 privileges - commit privileges, PMC, PMC Chair).

 And shouldn't the VP of the project report back to the board, in the
 projects regular report, about the progress? And shouldn't the board keep
 track of what it has task the project to do, and/or check that a project's
 bylaws doesn't conflict with the Code of Conduct or the Apache Way?

 Best regards,

 Pierre Smits

 *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com*
 Services  Solutions for Cloud-
 Based Manufacturing, Professional
 Services and Retail  Trade
 http://www.orrtiz.com

 On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 12:10 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz 
 bdelacre...@apache.org
  wrote:

  Hi,
 
  As there was no opposition I have modified the first few paragraphs of
  http://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct.html as below.
 
  -Bertrand
 
  On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
  bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:
   *** reworked code of conduct intro section ***
   This code of conduct applies to all spaces managed by the Apache
   Software Foundation, including IRC, all public and private mailing
   lists, issue trackers, wikis, blogs, Twitter, and any other
   communication channel used by our communities. A code of conduct which
   is specific to in-person events (ie., conferences) is codified in the
   published ASF anti-harassment policy.
  
   We expect this code of conduct to be honored by everyone who
   participates in the Apache community formally or informally, or claims
   any affiliation with the Foundation, in any 

Re: Better specifying the scope of our Code of Conduct

[Niclas Hedhman]

 spaces managed by the Apache
   Software Foundation, including IRC, all public and private mailing
   lists, issue trackers, wikis, blogs, Twitter, and any other
   communication channel used by our communities. A code of conduct
 which
   is specific to in-person events (ie., conferences) is codified in the
   published ASF anti-harassment policy.
  
   We expect this code of conduct to be honored by everyone who
   participates in the Apache community formally or informally, or
 claims
   any affiliation with the Foundation, in any Foundation-related
   activities and especially when representing the ASF, in any role.
  
   This code is not exhaustive or complete(unchanged from here on)
   *** reworked code of conduct intro section ***
  
   What do people think?
   -Bertrand
  
  
  
  
 
 

 --
 Pierre Smits

 *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com*
 Services  Solutions for Cloud-
 Based Manufacturing, Professional
 Services and Retail  Trade
 http://www.orrtiz.com




-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Hosting Searchable Release Specific Documentation

[Niclas Hedhman]

Well, in Apache Zest, we generate versioned documentation with the normal
build process, and that is then committed into the SVN site/content in its
own version-named directory. Documentation that is somewhat independent of
a release, such a community stuff, are outside this.

Neo4j (not Apache) used a similar process and even generated the docs into
Maven artifacts, along with testsuite results.

Cheers
Niclas

On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 8:10 PM, Suresh Marru sma...@apache.org wrote:

 Hi All,

 Can I get some advice on how projects deal with hosting release specific
 documentation? In addition to the CMS and Wiki, I am exploring alternatives
 which have a good search built-in. I preciously came across ASF projects
 hosting documentation on read the docs [1] and floss manuals [2] (sorry I
 could not trace all the links of projects using them, but [3] and [4] are
 examples). I read the thread on github pages [5], but it did not have a
 conclusive end.

 I am looking for something immediate, any suggestions please? It will be
 great if there is a precedence so we could just refer or even better
 plagiarize the scripts or approaches.

 Thanks,
 Suresh

 [1] - https://readthedocs.org/ https://readthedocs.org/
 [2] - http://en.flossmanuals.net/ http://en.flossmanuals.net/
 [3] - https://readthedocs.org/projects/cloudstack-administration/ 
 https://readthedocs.org/projects/cloudstack-administration/
 [4] - https://readthedocs.org/projects/trafficserver/ 
 https://readthedocs.org/projects/trafficserver/
 [5] - http://markmail.org/thread/bmbi65q7zdiej6dj 
 http://markmail.org/thread/bmbi65q7zdiej6dj




-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Mailing list subscriptions

[Niclas Hedhman]

Hi,
The page https://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html is written
with foundation level subscription in mind.

Which I think means that every PMC needs to replicate the same information
about how to subscribe to a mailing list.

Would it make sense to expand the Project Mailing Lists section with
generic instructions on how to subscribe?? If so, where would I find the
sources, so I can submit a patch?

Cheers
-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Mailing list subscriptions

[Niclas Hedhman]

Yes, I think so. For instance, I use GMail with aliasing another mail
address and domain name. That requires the dev-subscribe-niclas=
hedhman@jackrabbit.apache.org format.

Would also be good to capture usecases when this is needed (I am not sure
when).

Cheers
Niclas

On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 11:52 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz 
bdelacre...@apache.org wrote:

 Hi,

 On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 11:47 AM, Niclas Hedhman nic...@hedhman.org
 wrote:
  ...The page https://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html is
 written
  with foundation level subscription in mind.
 
  Which I think means that every PMC needs to replicate the same
 information
  about how to subscribe to a mailing list...

 Mailing list pages like
 http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jackrabbit-dev/
 include those instructions, do you think we need more than that?

 -Bertrand




-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Can't reporter.a.o automatically detect version number and release date?

[Niclas Hedhman]

Alex,
I think you made an assumption that format meant naming schemes of
releases, but it didn't. Simple a defined way to make that available for
reporter to pick it up with relative ease.
Your suggestion of a doap-based solution is equally a format. The
important part, I think, is that whatever way is chosen, that it is
documented and notified to PMCs, with optionality to use it.

For me; DOAP is as good as anything, although there are probably a great
demand for linking that with Maven publishing somehow. Since our Gradle
build is generating all kinds of meta data output anyway, one more wouldn't
hurt much.

Cheers

On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 10:31 PM, Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com wrote:



 On 6/25/15, 7:18 AM, hedh...@gmail.com on behalf of Niclas Hedhman
 hedh...@gmail.com on behalf of nic...@hedhman.org wrote:

 If the format is published, and the reward of following it would be
 that the reporter picks it up automatically, it could lead to swift
 adoption ;-)

 You might get push back about having to change naming schemes.

 I’m interested in a list of all current and past releases for my project.
 I was trying to figure out how to mine archive.a.o or the svn log for it.
 I’d be willing to maintain an xml file like in DOAP or elsewhere of not
 just the last, but all releases and links to their downloads with
 “friendly” names for the releases.  Then reporter.a.o could grab from that.

 -Alex

 
 On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 9:26 PM, Daniel Gruno humbed...@apache.org
 wrote:
 
  It has been tried, and it did not work.
  People are too inconsistent across projects in how they name their
 release
  files, grabbing the version is nigh impossible.
  If we had some form of agreement on how to name files, then it would be
  possible.
 
  With regards,
  Daniel.
 
 
  On 2015-06-25 15:11, Martijn Dashorst wrote:
 
  Is there a reason why the reporter.a.o can send a message to a release
  manager that it detected a new release, but is incapable of
  determining a version number and release date?
 
  Martijn
 
 
 
 
 
 --
 Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
 http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java




-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Can't reporter.a.o automatically detect version number and release date?

[Niclas Hedhman]

If the format is published, and the reward of following it would be
that the reporter picks it up automatically, it could lead to swift
adoption ;-)

On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 9:26 PM, Daniel Gruno humbed...@apache.org wrote:

 It has been tried, and it did not work.
 People are too inconsistent across projects in how they name their release
 files, grabbing the version is nigh impossible.
 If we had some form of agreement on how to name files, then it would be
 possible.

 With regards,
 Daniel.


 On 2015-06-25 15:11, Martijn Dashorst wrote:

 Is there a reason why the reporter.a.o can send a message to a release
 manager that it detected a new release, but is incapable of
 determining a version number and release date?

 Martijn





-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

https://apache.org

[Niclas Hedhman]

I am not sure who should be contacted, but https://apache.org doesn't match
the *.apache.org SSL Certificate and one gets a big fat warning in modern
browsers that the site shouldn't be trusted.

I think it needs to be corrected...

Cheers
-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: What might an open source class look like?

[Niclas Hedhman]

Actually, isn't governance a fairly spread out concept as well??
Apache - Open Collaboration, Open Development, Open Governance
Eclipse - Open Collaboration, Semi-Open[] Development, PaidFor Governance

Or?

[1] Some things out of Eclipse projects are definitely happening in the
dark, elaborate large changes are being discussed and suddenly appears
from seemingly nowhere. I am convinced a lot of F2F teams exists in
Eclipse, and doesn't seem to bother many...


On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 7:52 PM, Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com
wrote:

 On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 2:52 AM, Benedikt Ritter brit...@apache.org
 wrote:

  Would probably be good to define a term for this. I like Open Development
  because at the end of the day we're doing software development. But Open
  Collaboration is fine as well.

 The term I've heard most often is open governance.

 Marvin Humphrey




-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Standards for mail archive statistics gathering?

[Niclas Hedhman]

If you want to unsubscribe, please find instructions at
http://apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html

And the name of this list is dev@community.apache.org

Cheers
Niclas

On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 7:48 AM, Betty James bsquar...@gmail.com wrote:

 Oh my gosh.  How do I get off this thread.  don't know how I got on, but I
 am just a totally ignorant individual using Open Office and trying to
 donate (which doesn't sound necessary anymore)so unless you are in good
 shape and in your 70's try to figure out how I can get off the list!

 Betty B. James

 On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 7:33 AM, Boris Baldassari 
 castalia.laborat...@gmail.com wrote:

  Hi Folks,
 
  Sorry for the late answer on this thread. Don't know what has been done
  since then, but I've some experience to share on this, so here are my
 2c..
 
  * Parsing dates and time zones:
  If you are to use Perl, the Date::Parse module handles dates and time
  zones pretty well. As for Python I don't know -- there probably is a
 module
  for that too..
  I used Date::Parse to parse ASF mboxes (notably for Ant and JMeter, the
  data sets have been published here [0]), and it worked great. I do have a
  Perl script to do that, which I can provide -- but I have no access I'm
  aware of in the dev scm, and not sure if Perl is the most common language
  here.. so please let me know.
 
  * Parsing mboxes for software repository data mining:
  There is a suite of tools exactly targeted at this kind of duty on
 github:
  Metrics Grimoire [1], developed (and used) by Bitergia [2]. I don't know
  how they manage time zones, but the toolsuite is widely used around (see
  [3] or [4] as examples) so I believe they are quite robust. It includes
  tools for data retrieval as well as visualisation.
 
  * As for the feedback/thoughts about the architecture and formats:
  I love the REST-API idea proposed by Rob. That's really easy to access
 and
  retrieve through scripts on-demand. CSV and JSON are my favourite
 formats,
  because they are, again, easy to parse and widely used -- every language
  and library has some facility to read them natively.
 
 
  Cheers,
 
 
  [0] http://castalia.solutions/datasets/
  [1] https://metricsgrimoire.github.io/
  [2] http://bitergia.com
  [3] Eclipse Dashboard: http://dashboard.eclipse.org/
  [4] OpenStack Dashboard: http://activity.openstack.org/dash/browser/
 
 
 
  --
  Boris Baldassari
  Castalia Solutions -- Elegant Software Engineering
  Web: http://castalia.solutions
  Phone: +33 6 48 03 82 89
 
 
  Le 28/04/2015 16:11, Rich Bowen a écrit :
 
 
 
  On 04/27/2015 09:36 AM, Shane Curcuru wrote:
 
  I'm interested in working on some visualizations of mailing list
  activity over time, in particular some simple analyses, like thread
  length/participants and the like.  Given that the raw data can all be
  precomputed from mbox archives, is there any semi-standard way to
  distill and save metadata about mboxes?
 
  If we had a generic static database of past mail metadata and
 statistics
  (i.e. not details of contents, but perhaps overall # of lines of text
 or
  something), it would be interesting to see what kinds of visualizations
  that different people would come up with.
 
  Anyone have pointers to either a data format or the best parsing
 library
  for this?  I'm trying to think ahead, and work on the parsing, storing
  statistics, and visualizations as separate pieces so it's easier for
  different people to collaborate on something.
 
 
  Roberto posted something to the list a month or so ago about the efforts
  that he's been working on for this kind of thing. You might ping him.
 
  --Rich
 
 
 
 




-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: What might an open source class look like?

[Niclas Hedhman]

Daniel,
great initiative and I think it will become popular over time (new ideas
takes a while).

1) I think you should bring up the difference between Open Source a la
MySQL, i.e development at a corporation and releases thrown over the wall,
versus Open Collaboration a la Apache, where everything is expected to be
happening in the open, asynchronously and relatively slow pace. There is
also a third model, which is the Lone Wolf GitHubber who does it in the
open, maybe even get a lot of Pull Requests, but doesn't expand into a
developer's community.

2) In the Open Collaboration model, there is then the need for some type
of Governance, which varies from all volunteers to paid membership to
commercial invite only or combination of all. I recall people mentioning
studies that shows that the dynamics changes dramatically as soon as paid
for _anything_ is introduced, where _anything might be membership,
influence, developer time, evangelism and so on.

3) Adoption pattern(s). I recall that when Gianugo Rabellino (ASF Member)
was a SourceSense, they had an Adoption Path on their website which was
pretty thorough and something we take for granted, but made a lot of sense
to unaware commercial entities, and I think this road map of how to move
from commercial-only to contributor or even project leader is
important, even to students, who might end up spear-heading such changes
when they get jobs.

Good Luck, and please keep this list in the loop

Niclas

On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 7:42 AM, Daniel Ruggeri drugg...@primary.net wrote:

 Hi, all;
We had an interesting chat during the barcamp at ACNA2015 discussing
 ideas for spreading the word about open source. A few folks mentioned
 that it would be a good idea to partner with local universities to do
 talks/programs/etc. This sounded like an interesting idea so I
 squirreled it away in the back of my mind to be revisited after I
 settled back into the not-apachecon-routine... Interestingly enough, the
 day I got back from ApacheCon, a former professor (and mentor of mine)
 had asked if I would be willing to send the head of the IS program a
 letter of recommendation to accompany his nomination for an award. I
 mentioned the idea of doing something with the university regarding open
 source and introducing students to the idea in the P.S. of the email...
 Well, one conversation led to another and now I find myself teaching a
 credited class about open source in the fall.

I think this is really neat and exciting but a challenge at the same
 time. Since the idea was planted in my head w/ the ASF, I thought it
 would be a good idea to float the question here to ask, What would go
 in a college class about open source? I think I can work through a
 syllabus, but I'd love to hear suggestions from those who have been
 involved in the ASF longer than my 4-ish years.

 Here are some of the ideas I have in mind for things to cover:
 *What IS open source? The history/birth of the movement.
 *Source control with Subversion/GIT/?
 *Bug tracking
 *Mailing lists/IRC/communication tools
 *Participating in an open source community
 *Lab(s) where we create a repository and commit/work through examples of
 using the tools
 *Guest speaker: How we make money with Open Source
 *Guest speaker: The Apache way (of course!)
 *Guest speaker: Why I trust open source software in my production
 environment
 *Guest speaker: Why NOT open source (?)
 *Popular open source licenses - discussion around each
 *???

 I've only been on this list since ApacheCon this year, so I'm not sure
 what areas (if any) I would have commit access to in the community
 project, but I am more than willing to provide the materials I create as
 part of the class for those similarly interested in putting on such a
 program.

 P.S.
 I'm in the process of mining
 http://community.apache.org/speakers/slides.html for additional ideas,
 too...

 --
 Daniel Ruggeri




-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Captcha on Apache mirror

[Niclas Hedhman]

I am still getting it... :-/

On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 8:49 PM, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote:



 On 05/05/2015 08:36 AM, Konstantin Kolinko wrote:

 2015-05-05 5:37 GMT+03:00 Niclas Hedhman nic...@hedhman.org:

 I just tried to download Maven and randomly selected a download mirror;

 http://apache.petsads.us/maven/maven-3/3.3.3/binaries/apache-maven-3.3.3-bin.tar.gz

 But get presented with a captcha, and I think that is not
 expected/allowed
 since it might break automated tools.


 Good question.

 For information:

 The captcha on that site is shown by CloudFlare, that serves as a
 proxy for them,
 https://www.cloudflare.com/5xx-error-landing

 Maybe there was a reason for it.

 http://www.apache.org/info/how-to-mirror.html
 How to become a mirror - does not say anything about captchas,
 though it says Your mirror must not be shown inside another site
 using, for instance, frames.



 Pretty sure that

 You must not modify the mirrored tree in any way. In particular,
 HEADER.html and README.html files must not be altered or removed ; see
 below for adding sponsor information.

 covers this behavior.

 The reason that the site doesn't mention captchas was that the term didn't
 exist when this document was written. However, modify is general enough
 that it's covered.

 For whatever it's worth, I don't get a captcha at that URL - I get the
 expected file. Probably some transitory problem that has since cleared up.


 --
 Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen
 http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon




-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Captcha on Apache mirror

[Niclas Hedhman]

I just tried to download Maven and randomly selected a download mirror;
http://apache.petsads.us/maven/maven-3/3.3.3/binaries/apache-maven-3.3.3-bin.tar.gz

But get presented with a captcha, and I think that is not expected/allowed
since it might break automated tools.

Cheers
-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: GitLab?

[Niclas Hedhman]

On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 8:48 PM, Erik Weber terbol...@gmail.com wrote:

 Github without the web ui or the api wouldn't have the same effect as it
 has, it would basically be what we currently have..


Well, not totally, since GitHub allows random people creating random
projects and random people to host their forks of your project (look at
Rails) and publish that fact to the world. Yes, the web UI is paramount to
make that popular, but I agree with Mike that ASF should perhaps allow
strangers onto our infra, to stay relevant in the next generation, who
never experienced Pull Requests by diff -u in Emails


 By providing a similar service there's nothing that stops git.apache.org
 (or whatever hostname gitlab would have) to
  become the new ground where collaboration on Apache projects happen.


Agree, subject to allow strangers, which indeed is a massive decision and
one that isn't small reversible steps that ASF normally cherish.


 I've worked on projects residing on gitlab.com without thinking much about
 it being there rather than on github.


But were you invited through a system of meritocracy or did you just
created your own fork and hacked away ?


I think GitHub has challenged a core value in ASF, discussed for long, and
I think ASF should consider the implications and adapt.


Cheers
-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java

Re: GitLab?

[Niclas Hedhman]

On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 9:05 PM, Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com wrote:

 I do feel the need to remind people that there is also Apache Allura,
 which provides a comprehensive development environment, in fact, more
 comprehensive than GitHub or GitLab. Plus, last I checked, the
 PMC was working w/ Infra to ensure that should Allura be installed,
 there would be people *supporting* the install.


Learn something new every day ;-)
It would be good to have the developer community in-house, more easily
engaged to our specific requests/issues, and perhaps this is better than
GitLab for that reason.

-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java

Re: GitLab?

[Niclas Hedhman]

Yes, the network effect is important, but is it the only one? Can the
network effect happen on ASF systems? Would we want it to?

// Niclas

On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 1:43 PM, Roman Shaposhnik ro...@shaposhnik.org
wrote:

 On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 7:24 PM, Niclas Hedhman nic...@hedhman.org wrote:
  But, during my last 2-3 year absence, has the GitLab[1] option been
  discussed and/or tried? GitLab is open sourced, can run on our infra and
  has many of the essential features of Github.
  But perhaps people are satisfied enough with the Github mirroring that is
  already in place, but with GitLab in house, we could (in theory) add
  features around licensing (like ICLA style assurance, similar to Jira),
 and
  non-committers could(!) be allowed a direct route to the horse's mouth...

 Here's the way I look at it: the power of github.com comes not so much
 from the
 web UI or even API, but from a network effect. It is where developers
 congregate.
 Thus we'd have to have mirrors of our stuff there anyway to enable PR
 workflow
 for projects that care about it. And as long as THAT is in place, the
 need for something
 like GL is reduced, IMHO.

 Thanks,
 Roman.




-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java

Re: GitHub Pages

[Niclas Hedhman]

On this note;  Git without Github is like sex without a partner, sufficient
but not very satisfactory. Github option has been explored in the past, and
due to various reasons, it was not possible to achieve.
But, during my last 2-3 year absence, has the GitLab[1] option been
discussed and/or tried? GitLab is open sourced, can run on our infra and
has many of the essential features of Github.
But perhaps people are satisfied enough with the Github mirroring that is
already in place, but with GitLab in house, we could (in theory) add
features around licensing (like ICLA style assurance, similar to Jira), and
non-committers could(!) be allowed a direct route to the horse's mouth...

Although the Enterprise system cost money, my guess is that GitLab would be
happy to waive fees and give us access to EE.


Just a thought.

[1] https://about.gitlab.com/features/

// Niclas



On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Christopher ctubb...@apache.org wrote:

 All,

 Has any thought been put into leveraging GitHub pages for project
 documentation, static site hosting? A lot of www.apache.org is simple
 static content, as are project pages. Since a lot of projects are now using
 git, and we mirror projects in GitHub, perhaps we can help the individual
 projects maintain their site's static content by simply committing to a
 gh-pages branch for their project?

 Since it's just static content which is still hosted and controlled by ASF,
 but simply placed in a way that GitHub can render it from the mirrors, I
 don't think there's too many issues of concern, but wasn't sure if
 anybody's put any thought into it. I know it would certainly be easier for
 some projects than using the existing CMS system with SVN (especially those
 otherwise developing exclusively with Git).

 It might just work today, but I haven't tried it. I'd be willing to work
 with INFRA to help experiment with it, though (especially if we wanted to
 try out the CNAME feature).

 More info: https://pages.github.com/

 --
 Christopher L Tubbs II
 http://gravatar.com/ctubbsii




-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java

GitLab?

[Niclas Hedhman]

Opening a new thread...

Git without Github is like sex without a partner, sufficient but not very
satisfactory. Github option has been explored in the past, and due to
various reasons, it was not possible to achieve.

But, during my last 2-3 year absence, has the GitLab[1] option been
discussed and/or tried? GitLab is open sourced, can run on our infra and
has many of the essential features of Github.
But perhaps people are satisfied enough with the Github mirroring that is
already in place, but with GitLab in house, we could (in theory) add
features around licensing (like ICLA style assurance, similar to Jira), and
non-committers could(!) be allowed a direct route to the horse's mouth...

Although the Enterprise system cost money, my guess is that GitLab would be
happy to waive fees and give us access to EE.


Just a thought.

[1] https://about.gitlab.com/features/

-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Why the Apachecon (was Re: ApacheCon NA CFP closed)

[Niclas Hedhman]

On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 4:42 PM, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote:

 Let's face it: the event costs... It cost effort to organise, it uses
 precious ASF resources. And net-wise it should be beneficial to both the
 projects and the ASF regarding supporting the projects. Meaning adding to
 the budgets, or at least be cost neutral, and leading to more contributors
 to the projects.

Sorry for nitpicking (although I welcome you raising the question), but
ApacheCon doesn't need to be cost neutral. Cost is what you Pay, Value
is what you Get., so as long as we Get more than we Pay, it is a Win
for the Foundation. Now, what Get includes can be hard to define in
dollar terms (unlike the Pay part).

My view of ApacheCon goals;

  - Community Face Time!!! I have only attended two conferences (distance
plays a huge factor for me), but those are unforgettable days. People are
much different in real life, and we get along remarkably well.

  - Hackathon - talk project, new ideas, hack on bugs (bugathon), discuss
collaborations across projects, seek advice from some project expert, and
all that good jazz. Don't know a community? Just sit down and strike up a
conversation... Build lasting relationships, sign PGP keys.

  - Educate Management. On licensing, on adoption Use -- Modify --
Contribute, on Non-profit Org status and tax breaks, on sponsorship
programs and so on. Corporations can contribute more resources, IF they are
aware of the value it brings.

  -  Industry Use-cases. People like to hear about someone else did
something, and what were the results. We changed from 200 MySQL servers to
Cassandra. Here is what we like, and here are what we had problems with.
kind of presentations always inspires others in similar situations.

  -  Apache Content to Developers. All the classic project presentations.
IMHO, this shouldn't be more than 50% of all activities.

  - Innovation. When smart people come together (with beer) innovation
happens (The crux is to remember the great stuff next morning.). Seriously
though, it should be possible to 'inspire' innovation some way, by creating
a marketplace and/or a nursery of (crazy) Ideas, and give those who click
on a given idea, the necessary space to run with it. Not entirely sure
about the mechanics, just a vague concept in the back of my head at the
moment.

  - Marketing. Apache needs marketing, and ApacheCon is a reason to contact
every technology firm within the catchment area. For some of us, we may use
this as an opportunity to meet potential customers or strengthen ties with
existing ones.


Personally, I think ApacheCon should be moving towards a brighter future.
Apache is home of ~200 projects, many of which are exciting and fresh. This
should interest the public, and with a decent location and good marketing,
it should be impossible to drive record numbers to the Event. A couple of
thousand should be a reasonable goal, and if JavaZone in Norway can do that
on an all-volunteer basis, Apache should not set the goals too low.

Hope to see you at ApacheCon soon

Cheers
Niclas

Re: ApacheCon NA CFP closed

[Niclas Hedhman]

Regarding commercial or advertising presentations; Why should we reject
these outright? Why not allocate a track for corporations to present
whatever they like, in 20, 30 or 60 min blocks? And auction out those
slots. Either there is a market, or there is not... And/or combine them
with on-site sponsorship programs, of booths, give-aways and so on.
Stallman wouldn't do this, but we are said to be business-friendly, are we
not?

Cheers
Niclas

On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:27 PM, jan i j...@apache.org wrote:

 On Wednesday, February 4, 2015, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote:

 
 
  On 02/03/2015 04:11 AM, jan i wrote:
 
  We should really make that clear to people, I strongly believe the
 general
  opinion is  non-project talks are not welcome. I base this on the fact
  that
  a number of talks for Denver and Budapest was rejected for being too
  company like.
 
  When I started helping a year ago, I had ideas about having 2 tracks (or
  the talks scattered around)
  - User (including companies) experiences with ASF projects
  - Companies presenting solutions based on ASF projects
 
  I quickly learned that that was not the purpose of ApacheCON, I am very
  trilled if that is the way we want to go because that is a real way to
 get
  AC to grow again.
 
 
  For several years, we had a strong business track, where the implications
  of The Apache Way to business (legal, marketing, planning, community,
  whatever) were discussed. This just took someone to step up and make it
  happen.
 
  If someone comes to me tomorrow with a business track, complete with
  content, we'll schedule it. Sally used to handle this, and with her
  contacts was able to provide really strong content. There was indeed
  resistance to this, because it's not about Apache projects, but that is
  very open to interpretation, and, in the end, it strengthened the
 community
  as a whole.


 Once we get ACNA scheduled I will talk with Sally and also come  with ideas
 for early (before/during CFP) press releases for ACEU.

 I am very convinced that a business track, will sell more tickets and maybe
 also attract some new sponsors.

 rgds
 jan i

 
  But, we can't schedule talks that aren't submitted.
 
 
 
  LF cannot market this message alone, they need clear public statements
  from
  us, that we want companies to come and present. I am convinced that if
 we
  (e.g. for ACEU) make early press releases about wanting companies to
 talk,
  tell it to LF, then we will be a lot more successful.
 
 
  +1
 
 
 
  If we just relax, and hope LF can lift that alone we will fail and keep
  telling each other how great projects we have ( which happens to be the
  truth, but maybe not the whole truth).
 
 
  Yep. If we keep talking to just ourselves, we'll ... keep talking to just
  ourselves.
 
  --
  Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen
  http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
 


 --
 Sent from My iPad, sorry for any misspellings.




-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Video recording at ApacheCon EU

[Niclas Hedhman]

Peanut gallery;
I think there is a lot value in recording events like this. 500 people
visit, at the most 1/6 of the conference. 500,000 people can watch all
of it at their leisure later. I would.
But HD seems like overkill, and I also see the cost as steep. Perhaps
some double-checks with InfoQ and/or other conference organizers?

Also, check with our Platinum sponsors if they think whether this is
good use of money, compared to other use of the money...


Cheers
Niclas

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 1:03 AM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote:
 The budget may be available, but are the videos actually worth that
 value? Just because we have budget, doesn't mean we have to spend
 it.

 Geez. 15k euros is a LOT of money.

 Opportunity cost... some new hardware? Maybe another part-time infra admin?

 The question of can we get these recorded? was put out there, sure.
 But just a question, rather than spend whatever it takes to get the
 video. At 15k, it seems rather extravagant to me. Seems we can put
 that amount of cash to other/better uses.

 As a Director, I'm -1 on this expense. Just one vote of many, but
 that's my thinking. I don't see the value.

 Cheers,
 -g

 On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Ross Gardler
 rgard...@opendirective.com wrote:
 In the last board meeting I was asked if we could re-instate the plan to 
 record all sessions at ACEU now that it looked to be in good financial 
 health.

 Paul has kindly got a quote for us from the arena and they will do us HD 
 video of all 6 tracks for circa €15000 (exc. VAT). We can afford this in the 
 current budget projects since Nick and co have managed to sell the 
 conference out (well done folks). Furthermore the ASF money we earmarked is 
 currently unspent. I have asked Nick, as conference chair, to approve this 
 and have indicated that I will take responsibility for it in the unlikely 
 event that we need to dip into ASF funds to pay for it (on the assumption 
 that the board are still comfortable with the budget approved for ConCom).

 I also indicated that the ComDev PMC will take responsibility for use of the 
 video after the event. This is *just* recording the video and audio. There 
 is no post-production work included in this price. My current thinking is 
 that we will simply make the video available to the appropriate PMCs and 
 they can do whatever post-processing they want to do. It is possible that 
 the ComDev PMC will do some limited post-production but I'm not going to 
 commit to that right now since that would be a voluntary effort.

 Nick has not yet given his approval so there is still time to ask us to slow 
 down on this, but not much since the event is next week. Contracts will be 
 changing hands with NewThinking soon.

 Ross

 Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
 OpenDirective
 http://opendirective.com





-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
河南南路555弄15号1901室。
http://www.qi4j.org - New Energy for Java

I live here; http://tinyurl.com/3xugrbk
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/6a2pl4j
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug