Re: [DISCUSS] Alternative way of posting FLIPs
Hi all, I've created https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-34515 and updated https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/Flink+Improvement+Proposals to update the instructions for the community. Best regards, Martijn On Thu, Feb 15, 2024 at 10:04 AM Martijn Visser wrote: > > Hi all, > > Thanks for all your input. If there's no other opinions in the next > couple of days, then I'll update the documentation accordingly. > > Best regards, > > Martijn > > On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 4:51 AM Benchao Li wrote: > > > > +1 for option 1. Thanks Martijn for taking care of this, I've also > > filed a issue[1] for the infra a few days ago, but haven't been > > resolved yet. > > > > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-25451 > > > > Jane Chan 于2024年2月10日周六 14:33写道： > > > > > > +1 for option 1. > > > > > > Hi Yun, > > > > > > > I am concerned about whether we can view the history of design docs > > > > > > > > > > If someone has editor permissions, they can also view the editing history > > > of Google Docs[1]. If the change history of the design document is equally > > > important, would it be possible to selectively share the editor link with > > > the developers involved in the discussion for the FLIP? > > > > > > [1] > > > https://support.google.com/docs/answer/190843?sjid=8405245178977557481-NC > > > > > > Best, > > > Jane > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 5:33 PM Sergey Nuyanzin > > > wrote: > > > > > > > +1 for option 1 > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 10:18 AM Jing Ge > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > +1 for option 1. The Github discussions look more like an overlap to > > > > > the > > > > ML > > > > > instead of a wiki tool like Confluence. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Jing > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 10:08 AM Yun Tang wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > For the first solution, I am concerned about whether we can view the > > > > > > history of design docs, which is supported by Confluence wiki and > > > > GitHub > > > > > > discussions. From my understanding, even the discussion history > > > > > > could > > > > let > > > > > > others know the evolution of this feature and the history of a > > > > > > design > > > > doc > > > > > > is also really important. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best > > > > > > Yun Tang > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Piotr Nowojski > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 14:17 > > > > > > To: dev@flink.apache.org > > > > > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Alternative way of posting FLIPs > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 for the first option as well > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Piotrek > > > > > > > > > > > > śr., 7 lut 2024 o 16:48 Matthias Pohl > > > > > > > > > > > > napisał(a): > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 for option 1 since it's a reasonable temporary workaround > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Moving to GitHub discussions would either mean moving the current > > > > FLIP > > > > > > > collection or having the FLIPs in two locations. Both options do > > > > > > > not > > > > > seem > > > > > > > to be optimal. Another concern I had was that GitHub Discussions > > > > > wouldn't > > > > > > > allow integrating diagrams that easily. But it looks like they > > > > support > > > > > > > Mermaid [1] for diagrams. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One flaw of the GoogleDocs approach is, though, that we have to > > > > > > > rely > > > > on > > > > > > > diagrams being provided as PNG/JPG/SVG rather than draw.io > > > > > > > diagrams. > > > > > > > draw.io > > > > > > > is more tightly integrated with the Confluence wiki which allows > > > > &g
Re: [DISCUSS] Alternative way of posting FLIPs
Hi all, Thanks for all your input. If there's no other opinions in the next couple of days, then I'll update the documentation accordingly. Best regards, Martijn On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 4:51 AM Benchao Li wrote: > > +1 for option 1. Thanks Martijn for taking care of this, I've also > filed a issue[1] for the infra a few days ago, but haven't been > resolved yet. > > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-25451 > > Jane Chan 于2024年2月10日周六 14:33写道： > > > > +1 for option 1. > > > > Hi Yun, > > > > > I am concerned about whether we can view the history of design docs > > > > > > > If someone has editor permissions, they can also view the editing history > > of Google Docs[1]. If the change history of the design document is equally > > important, would it be possible to selectively share the editor link with > > the developers involved in the discussion for the FLIP? > > > > [1] > > https://support.google.com/docs/answer/190843?sjid=8405245178977557481-NC > > > > Best, > > Jane > > > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 5:33 PM Sergey Nuyanzin wrote: > > > > > +1 for option 1 > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 10:18 AM Jing Ge > > > wrote: > > > > > > > +1 for option 1. The Github discussions look more like an overlap to the > > > ML > > > > instead of a wiki tool like Confluence. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Jing > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 10:08 AM Yun Tang wrote: > > > > > > > > > For the first solution, I am concerned about whether we can view the > > > > > history of design docs, which is supported by Confluence wiki and > > > GitHub > > > > > discussions. From my understanding, even the discussion history could > > > let > > > > > others know the evolution of this feature and the history of a design > > > doc > > > > > is also really important. > > > > > > > > > > Best > > > > > Yun Tang > > > > > > > > > > From: Piotr Nowojski > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 14:17 > > > > > To: dev@flink.apache.org > > > > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Alternative way of posting FLIPs > > > > > > > > > > +1 for the first option as well > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > Piotrek > > > > > > > > > > śr., 7 lut 2024 o 16:48 Matthias Pohl > > > > > napisał(a): > > > > > > > > > > > +1 for option 1 since it's a reasonable temporary workaround > > > > > > > > > > > > Moving to GitHub discussions would either mean moving the current > > > FLIP > > > > > > collection or having the FLIPs in two locations. Both options do not > > > > seem > > > > > > to be optimal. Another concern I had was that GitHub Discussions > > > > wouldn't > > > > > > allow integrating diagrams that easily. But it looks like they > > > support > > > > > > Mermaid [1] for diagrams. > > > > > > > > > > > > One flaw of the GoogleDocs approach is, though, that we have to rely > > > on > > > > > > diagrams being provided as PNG/JPG/SVG rather than draw.io diagrams. > > > > > > draw.io > > > > > > is more tightly integrated with the Confluence wiki which allows > > > > > > editing/updating diagrams in the wiki rather than using some > > > > > > external > > > > > tool. > > > > > > Google Draw is also not that convenient to use in my opinion. > > > > > > Anyway, > > > > > > that's a minor issue, I guess. > > > > > > > > > > > > Matthias > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://docs.github.com/en/get-started/writing-on-github/working-with-advanced-formatting/creating-diagrams > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 3:30 PM Lincoln Lee > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Martijn moving this forward! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 for
Re: [DISCUSS] Alternative way of posting FLIPs
+1 for option 1. Thanks Martijn for taking care of this, I've also filed a issue[1] for the infra a few days ago, but haven't been resolved yet. [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-25451 Jane Chan 于2024年2月10日周六 14:33写道： > > +1 for option 1. > > Hi Yun, > > > I am concerned about whether we can view the history of design docs > > > > If someone has editor permissions, they can also view the editing history > of Google Docs[1]. If the change history of the design document is equally > important, would it be possible to selectively share the editor link with > the developers involved in the discussion for the FLIP? > > [1] > https://support.google.com/docs/answer/190843?sjid=8405245178977557481-NC > > Best, > Jane > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 5:33 PM Sergey Nuyanzin wrote: > > > +1 for option 1 > > > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 10:18 AM Jing Ge > > wrote: > > > > > +1 for option 1. The Github discussions look more like an overlap to the > > ML > > > instead of a wiki tool like Confluence. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Jing > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 10:08 AM Yun Tang wrote: > > > > > > > For the first solution, I am concerned about whether we can view the > > > > history of design docs, which is supported by Confluence wiki and > > GitHub > > > > discussions. From my understanding, even the discussion history could > > let > > > > others know the evolution of this feature and the history of a design > > doc > > > > is also really important. > > > > > > > > Best > > > > Yun Tang > > > > > > > > From: Piotr Nowojski > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 14:17 > > > > To: dev@flink.apache.org > > > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Alternative way of posting FLIPs > > > > > > > > +1 for the first option as well > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Piotrek > > > > > > > > śr., 7 lut 2024 o 16:48 Matthias Pohl > > > > napisał(a): > > > > > > > > > +1 for option 1 since it's a reasonable temporary workaround > > > > > > > > > > Moving to GitHub discussions would either mean moving the current > > FLIP > > > > > collection or having the FLIPs in two locations. Both options do not > > > seem > > > > > to be optimal. Another concern I had was that GitHub Discussions > > > wouldn't > > > > > allow integrating diagrams that easily. But it looks like they > > support > > > > > Mermaid [1] for diagrams. > > > > > > > > > > One flaw of the GoogleDocs approach is, though, that we have to rely > > on > > > > > diagrams being provided as PNG/JPG/SVG rather than draw.io diagrams. > > > > > draw.io > > > > > is more tightly integrated with the Confluence wiki which allows > > > > > editing/updating diagrams in the wiki rather than using some external > > > > tool. > > > > > Google Draw is also not that convenient to use in my opinion. Anyway, > > > > > that's a minor issue, I guess. > > > > > > > > > > Matthias > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://docs.github.com/en/get-started/writing-on-github/working-with-advanced-formatting/creating-diagrams > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 3:30 PM Lincoln Lee > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Martijn moving this forward! > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 for the first solution, because as of now it looks like this is > > a > > > > > > temporary solution and we're still looking forward to the > > improvement > > > > by > > > > > > ASF Infra, when the access is ok for contributors, we can back to > > the > > > > > > current workflow. > > > > > > > > > > > > For solution 2, one visible downside is that it becomes > > inconvenient > > > to > > > > > > look for flips (unless we permanently switch to github discussion). > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to hearing more thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Alternative way of posting FLIPs
+1 for option 1. Hi Yun, > I am concerned about whether we can view the history of design docs > If someone has editor permissions, they can also view the editing history of Google Docs[1]. If the change history of the design document is equally important, would it be possible to selectively share the editor link with the developers involved in the discussion for the FLIP? [1] https://support.google.com/docs/answer/190843?sjid=8405245178977557481-NC Best, Jane On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 5:33 PM Sergey Nuyanzin wrote: > +1 for option 1 > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 10:18 AM Jing Ge > wrote: > > > +1 for option 1. The Github discussions look more like an overlap to the > ML > > instead of a wiki tool like Confluence. > > > > Best regards, > > Jing > > > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 10:08 AM Yun Tang wrote: > > > > > For the first solution, I am concerned about whether we can view the > > > history of design docs, which is supported by Confluence wiki and > GitHub > > > discussions. From my understanding, even the discussion history could > let > > > others know the evolution of this feature and the history of a design > doc > > > is also really important. > > > > > > Best > > > Yun Tang > > > ________________ > > > From: Piotr Nowojski > > > Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 14:17 > > > To: dev@flink.apache.org > > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Alternative way of posting FLIPs > > > > > > +1 for the first option as well > > > > > > Best, > > > Piotrek > > > > > > śr., 7 lut 2024 o 16:48 Matthias Pohl > > > napisał(a): > > > > > > > +1 for option 1 since it's a reasonable temporary workaround > > > > > > > > Moving to GitHub discussions would either mean moving the current > FLIP > > > > collection or having the FLIPs in two locations. Both options do not > > seem > > > > to be optimal. Another concern I had was that GitHub Discussions > > wouldn't > > > > allow integrating diagrams that easily. But it looks like they > support > > > > Mermaid [1] for diagrams. > > > > > > > > One flaw of the GoogleDocs approach is, though, that we have to rely > on > > > > diagrams being provided as PNG/JPG/SVG rather than draw.io diagrams. > > > > draw.io > > > > is more tightly integrated with the Confluence wiki which allows > > > > editing/updating diagrams in the wiki rather than using some external > > > tool. > > > > Google Draw is also not that convenient to use in my opinion. Anyway, > > > > that's a minor issue, I guess. > > > > > > > > Matthias > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://docs.github.com/en/get-started/writing-on-github/working-with-advanced-formatting/creating-diagrams > > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 3:30 PM Lincoln Lee > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Thanks Martijn moving this forward! > > > > > > > > > > +1 for the first solution, because as of now it looks like this is > a > > > > > temporary solution and we're still looking forward to the > improvement > > > by > > > > > ASF Infra, when the access is ok for contributors, we can back to > the > > > > > current workflow. > > > > > > > > > > For solution 2, one visible downside is that it becomes > inconvenient > > to > > > > > look for flips (unless we permanently switch to github discussion). > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to hearing more thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > Lincoln Lee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Martijn Visser 于2024年2月7日周三 21:51写道： > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > ASF Infra has confirmed to me that only ASF committers can access > > the > > > > > > ASF Confluence site since a recent change. One of the results of > > this > > > > > > decision is that users can't signup and access Confluence, so > only > > > > > > committers+ can create FLIPs. > > > > > > > > > > > > ASF Infra hopes to improve this situation when they move to the > > Cloud > > > > > > shortly
Re: [DISCUSS] Alternative way of posting FLIPs
+1 for option 1 On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 10:18 AM Jing Ge wrote: > +1 for option 1. The Github discussions look more like an overlap to the ML > instead of a wiki tool like Confluence. > > Best regards, > Jing > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 10:08 AM Yun Tang wrote: > > > For the first solution, I am concerned about whether we can view the > > history of design docs, which is supported by Confluence wiki and GitHub > > discussions. From my understanding, even the discussion history could let > > others know the evolution of this feature and the history of a design doc > > is also really important. > > > > Best > > Yun Tang > > > > From: Piotr Nowojski > > Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 14:17 > > To: dev@flink.apache.org > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Alternative way of posting FLIPs > > > > +1 for the first option as well > > > > Best, > > Piotrek > > > > śr., 7 lut 2024 o 16:48 Matthias Pohl > > napisał(a): > > > > > +1 for option 1 since it's a reasonable temporary workaround > > > > > > Moving to GitHub discussions would either mean moving the current FLIP > > > collection or having the FLIPs in two locations. Both options do not > seem > > > to be optimal. Another concern I had was that GitHub Discussions > wouldn't > > > allow integrating diagrams that easily. But it looks like they support > > > Mermaid [1] for diagrams. > > > > > > One flaw of the GoogleDocs approach is, though, that we have to rely on > > > diagrams being provided as PNG/JPG/SVG rather than draw.io diagrams. > > > draw.io > > > is more tightly integrated with the Confluence wiki which allows > > > editing/updating diagrams in the wiki rather than using some external > > tool. > > > Google Draw is also not that convenient to use in my opinion. Anyway, > > > that's a minor issue, I guess. > > > > > > Matthias > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > > > > https://docs.github.com/en/get-started/writing-on-github/working-with-advanced-formatting/creating-diagrams > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 3:30 PM Lincoln Lee > > wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks Martijn moving this forward! > > > > > > > > +1 for the first solution, because as of now it looks like this is a > > > > temporary solution and we're still looking forward to the improvement > > by > > > > ASF Infra, when the access is ok for contributors, we can back to the > > > > current workflow. > > > > > > > > For solution 2, one visible downside is that it becomes inconvenient > to > > > > look for flips (unless we permanently switch to github discussion). > > > > > > > > Looking forward to hearing more thoughts. > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Lincoln Lee > > > > > > > > > > > > Martijn Visser 于2024年2月7日周三 21:51写道： > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > ASF Infra has confirmed to me that only ASF committers can access > the > > > > > ASF Confluence site since a recent change. One of the results of > this > > > > > decision is that users can't signup and access Confluence, so only > > > > > committers+ can create FLIPs. > > > > > > > > > > ASF Infra hopes to improve this situation when they move to the > Cloud > > > > > shortly (as in: some months), but they haven't committed on an > actual > > > > > date. The idea would be that we find a temporary solution until > > anyone > > > > > can request access to Confluence. > > > > > > > > > > There are a couple of ways we could resolve this situation: > > > > > 1. Contributors create a Google Doc and make that view-only, and > post > > > > > that Google Doc to the mailing list for a discussion thread. When > the > > > > > discussions have been resolved, the contributor ask on the Dev > > mailing > > > > > list to a committer/PMC to copy the contents from the Google Doc, > and > > > > > create a FLIP number for them. The contributor can then use that > FLIP > > > > > to actually have a VOTE thread. > > > > > 2. We could consider moving FLIPs to "Discussions" on Github, like > > > > > Airflow does at https://github.com/apache/airflow/discussions > > > > > 3. Perhaps someone else has another good idea. > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > Martijn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Best regards, Sergey
Re: [DISCUSS] Alternative way of posting FLIPs
+1 for option 1. The Github discussions look more like an overlap to the ML instead of a wiki tool like Confluence. Best regards, Jing On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 10:08 AM Yun Tang wrote: > For the first solution, I am concerned about whether we can view the > history of design docs, which is supported by Confluence wiki and GitHub > discussions. From my understanding, even the discussion history could let > others know the evolution of this feature and the history of a design doc > is also really important. > > Best > Yun Tang > > From: Piotr Nowojski > Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 14:17 > To: dev@flink.apache.org > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Alternative way of posting FLIPs > > +1 for the first option as well > > Best, > Piotrek > > śr., 7 lut 2024 o 16:48 Matthias Pohl > napisał(a): > > > +1 for option 1 since it's a reasonable temporary workaround > > > > Moving to GitHub discussions would either mean moving the current FLIP > > collection or having the FLIPs in two locations. Both options do not seem > > to be optimal. Another concern I had was that GitHub Discussions wouldn't > > allow integrating diagrams that easily. But it looks like they support > > Mermaid [1] for diagrams. > > > > One flaw of the GoogleDocs approach is, though, that we have to rely on > > diagrams being provided as PNG/JPG/SVG rather than draw.io diagrams. > > draw.io > > is more tightly integrated with the Confluence wiki which allows > > editing/updating diagrams in the wiki rather than using some external > tool. > > Google Draw is also not that convenient to use in my opinion. Anyway, > > that's a minor issue, I guess. > > > > Matthias > > > > [1] > > > > > https://docs.github.com/en/get-started/writing-on-github/working-with-advanced-formatting/creating-diagrams > > > > On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 3:30 PM Lincoln Lee > wrote: > > > > > Thanks Martijn moving this forward! > > > > > > +1 for the first solution, because as of now it looks like this is a > > > temporary solution and we're still looking forward to the improvement > by > > > ASF Infra, when the access is ok for contributors, we can back to the > > > current workflow. > > > > > > For solution 2, one visible downside is that it becomes inconvenient to > > > look for flips (unless we permanently switch to github discussion). > > > > > > Looking forward to hearing more thoughts. > > > > > > Best, > > > Lincoln Lee > > > > > > > > > Martijn Visser 于2024年2月7日周三 21:51写道： > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > ASF Infra has confirmed to me that only ASF committers can access the > > > > ASF Confluence site since a recent change. One of the results of this > > > > decision is that users can't signup and access Confluence, so only > > > > committers+ can create FLIPs. > > > > > > > > ASF Infra hopes to improve this situation when they move to the Cloud > > > > shortly (as in: some months), but they haven't committed on an actual > > > > date. The idea would be that we find a temporary solution until > anyone > > > > can request access to Confluence. > > > > > > > > There are a couple of ways we could resolve this situation: > > > > 1. Contributors create a Google Doc and make that view-only, and post > > > > that Google Doc to the mailing list for a discussion thread. When the > > > > discussions have been resolved, the contributor ask on the Dev > mailing > > > > list to a committer/PMC to copy the contents from the Google Doc, and > > > > create a FLIP number for them. The contributor can then use that FLIP > > > > to actually have a VOTE thread. > > > > 2. We could consider moving FLIPs to "Discussions" on Github, like > > > > Airflow does at https://github.com/apache/airflow/discussions > > > > 3. Perhaps someone else has another good idea. > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your thoughts. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Martijn > > > > > > > > > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Alternative way of posting FLIPs
For the first solution, I am concerned about whether we can view the history of design docs, which is supported by Confluence wiki and GitHub discussions. From my understanding, even the discussion history could let others know the evolution of this feature and the history of a design doc is also really important. Best Yun Tang From: Piotr Nowojski Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 14:17 To: dev@flink.apache.org Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Alternative way of posting FLIPs +1 for the first option as well Best, Piotrek śr., 7 lut 2024 o 16:48 Matthias Pohl napisał(a): > +1 for option 1 since it's a reasonable temporary workaround > > Moving to GitHub discussions would either mean moving the current FLIP > collection or having the FLIPs in two locations. Both options do not seem > to be optimal. Another concern I had was that GitHub Discussions wouldn't > allow integrating diagrams that easily. But it looks like they support > Mermaid [1] for diagrams. > > One flaw of the GoogleDocs approach is, though, that we have to rely on > diagrams being provided as PNG/JPG/SVG rather than draw.io diagrams. > draw.io > is more tightly integrated with the Confluence wiki which allows > editing/updating diagrams in the wiki rather than using some external tool. > Google Draw is also not that convenient to use in my opinion. Anyway, > that's a minor issue, I guess. > > Matthias > > [1] > > https://docs.github.com/en/get-started/writing-on-github/working-with-advanced-formatting/creating-diagrams > > On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 3:30 PM Lincoln Lee wrote: > > > Thanks Martijn moving this forward! > > > > +1 for the first solution, because as of now it looks like this is a > > temporary solution and we're still looking forward to the improvement by > > ASF Infra, when the access is ok for contributors, we can back to the > > current workflow. > > > > For solution 2, one visible downside is that it becomes inconvenient to > > look for flips (unless we permanently switch to github discussion). > > > > Looking forward to hearing more thoughts. > > > > Best, > > Lincoln Lee > > > > > > Martijn Visser 于2024年2月7日周三 21:51写道： > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > ASF Infra has confirmed to me that only ASF committers can access the > > > ASF Confluence site since a recent change. One of the results of this > > > decision is that users can't signup and access Confluence, so only > > > committers+ can create FLIPs. > > > > > > ASF Infra hopes to improve this situation when they move to the Cloud > > > shortly (as in: some months), but they haven't committed on an actual > > > date. The idea would be that we find a temporary solution until anyone > > > can request access to Confluence. > > > > > > There are a couple of ways we could resolve this situation: > > > 1. Contributors create a Google Doc and make that view-only, and post > > > that Google Doc to the mailing list for a discussion thread. When the > > > discussions have been resolved, the contributor ask on the Dev mailing > > > list to a committer/PMC to copy the contents from the Google Doc, and > > > create a FLIP number for them. The contributor can then use that FLIP > > > to actually have a VOTE thread. > > > 2. We could consider moving FLIPs to "Discussions" on Github, like > > > Airflow does at https://github.com/apache/airflow/discussions > > > 3. Perhaps someone else has another good idea. > > > > > > Looking forward to your thoughts. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Martijn > > > > > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Alternative way of posting FLIPs
+1 for the first option as well Best, Piotrek śr., 7 lut 2024 o 16:48 Matthias Pohl napisał(a): > +1 for option 1 since it's a reasonable temporary workaround > > Moving to GitHub discussions would either mean moving the current FLIP > collection or having the FLIPs in two locations. Both options do not seem > to be optimal. Another concern I had was that GitHub Discussions wouldn't > allow integrating diagrams that easily. But it looks like they support > Mermaid [1] for diagrams. > > One flaw of the GoogleDocs approach is, though, that we have to rely on > diagrams being provided as PNG/JPG/SVG rather than draw.io diagrams. > draw.io > is more tightly integrated with the Confluence wiki which allows > editing/updating diagrams in the wiki rather than using some external tool. > Google Draw is also not that convenient to use in my opinion. Anyway, > that's a minor issue, I guess. > > Matthias > > [1] > > https://docs.github.com/en/get-started/writing-on-github/working-with-advanced-formatting/creating-diagrams > > On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 3:30 PM Lincoln Lee wrote: > > > Thanks Martijn moving this forward! > > > > +1 for the first solution, because as of now it looks like this is a > > temporary solution and we're still looking forward to the improvement by > > ASF Infra, when the access is ok for contributors, we can back to the > > current workflow. > > > > For solution 2, one visible downside is that it becomes inconvenient to > > look for flips (unless we permanently switch to github discussion). > > > > Looking forward to hearing more thoughts. > > > > Best, > > Lincoln Lee > > > > > > Martijn Visser 于2024年2月7日周三 21:51写道： > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > ASF Infra has confirmed to me that only ASF committers can access the > > > ASF Confluence site since a recent change. One of the results of this > > > decision is that users can't signup and access Confluence, so only > > > committers+ can create FLIPs. > > > > > > ASF Infra hopes to improve this situation when they move to the Cloud > > > shortly (as in: some months), but they haven't committed on an actual > > > date. The idea would be that we find a temporary solution until anyone > > > can request access to Confluence. > > > > > > There are a couple of ways we could resolve this situation: > > > 1. Contributors create a Google Doc and make that view-only, and post > > > that Google Doc to the mailing list for a discussion thread. When the > > > discussions have been resolved, the contributor ask on the Dev mailing > > > list to a committer/PMC to copy the contents from the Google Doc, and > > > create a FLIP number for them. The contributor can then use that FLIP > > > to actually have a VOTE thread. > > > 2. We could consider moving FLIPs to "Discussions" on Github, like > > > Airflow does at https://github.com/apache/airflow/discussions > > > 3. Perhaps someone else has another good idea. > > > > > > Looking forward to your thoughts. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Martijn > > > > > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Alternative way of posting FLIPs
+1 for option 1 since it's a reasonable temporary workaround Moving to GitHub discussions would either mean moving the current FLIP collection or having the FLIPs in two locations. Both options do not seem to be optimal. Another concern I had was that GitHub Discussions wouldn't allow integrating diagrams that easily. But it looks like they support Mermaid [1] for diagrams. One flaw of the GoogleDocs approach is, though, that we have to rely on diagrams being provided as PNG/JPG/SVG rather than draw.io diagrams. draw.io is more tightly integrated with the Confluence wiki which allows editing/updating diagrams in the wiki rather than using some external tool. Google Draw is also not that convenient to use in my opinion. Anyway, that's a minor issue, I guess. Matthias [1] https://docs.github.com/en/get-started/writing-on-github/working-with-advanced-formatting/creating-diagrams On Wed, Feb 7, 2024 at 3:30 PM Lincoln Lee wrote: > Thanks Martijn moving this forward! > > +1 for the first solution, because as of now it looks like this is a > temporary solution and we're still looking forward to the improvement by > ASF Infra, when the access is ok for contributors, we can back to the > current workflow. > > For solution 2, one visible downside is that it becomes inconvenient to > look for flips (unless we permanently switch to github discussion). > > Looking forward to hearing more thoughts. > > Best, > Lincoln Lee > > > Martijn Visser 于2024年2月7日周三 21:51写道： > > > Hi all, > > > > ASF Infra has confirmed to me that only ASF committers can access the > > ASF Confluence site since a recent change. One of the results of this > > decision is that users can't signup and access Confluence, so only > > committers+ can create FLIPs. > > > > ASF Infra hopes to improve this situation when they move to the Cloud > > shortly (as in: some months), but they haven't committed on an actual > > date. The idea would be that we find a temporary solution until anyone > > can request access to Confluence. > > > > There are a couple of ways we could resolve this situation: > > 1. Contributors create a Google Doc and make that view-only, and post > > that Google Doc to the mailing list for a discussion thread. When the > > discussions have been resolved, the contributor ask on the Dev mailing > > list to a committer/PMC to copy the contents from the Google Doc, and > > create a FLIP number for them. The contributor can then use that FLIP > > to actually have a VOTE thread. > > 2. We could consider moving FLIPs to "Discussions" on Github, like > > Airflow does at https://github.com/apache/airflow/discussions > > 3. Perhaps someone else has another good idea. > > > > Looking forward to your thoughts. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Martijn > > >
Re: [DISCUSS] Alternative way of posting FLIPs
Thanks Martijn moving this forward! +1 for the first solution, because as of now it looks like this is a temporary solution and we're still looking forward to the improvement by ASF Infra, when the access is ok for contributors, we can back to the current workflow. For solution 2, one visible downside is that it becomes inconvenient to look for flips (unless we permanently switch to github discussion). Looking forward to hearing more thoughts. Best, Lincoln Lee Martijn Visser 于2024年2月7日周三 21:51写道： > Hi all, > > ASF Infra has confirmed to me that only ASF committers can access the > ASF Confluence site since a recent change. One of the results of this > decision is that users can't signup and access Confluence, so only > committers+ can create FLIPs. > > ASF Infra hopes to improve this situation when they move to the Cloud > shortly (as in: some months), but they haven't committed on an actual > date. The idea would be that we find a temporary solution until anyone > can request access to Confluence. > > There are a couple of ways we could resolve this situation: > 1. Contributors create a Google Doc and make that view-only, and post > that Google Doc to the mailing list for a discussion thread. When the > discussions have been resolved, the contributor ask on the Dev mailing > list to a committer/PMC to copy the contents from the Google Doc, and > create a FLIP number for them. The contributor can then use that FLIP > to actually have a VOTE thread. > 2. We could consider moving FLIPs to "Discussions" on Github, like > Airflow does at https://github.com/apache/airflow/discussions > 3. Perhaps someone else has another good idea. > > Looking forward to your thoughts. > > Best regards, > > Martijn >
