Re: [DISCUSSION] Docker OS support
My concern about "latest" is that I feel most people hold it for some time before migrating to the latest version (if it ever happens). If there are numbers, it could make sense to use the most popular version (plus the other criterias). On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 12:14 PM Oliver Bristow wrote: > Sorry if I missed the rationale for Ubuntu 18.04 instead of 20.04, but > would the latest LTS be a better choice? 18.04 was released before Debian > 10, so that may be an argument for 20.04 re. compatibility if Debian 10 is > the standard. > > There's already a 20.04 Dockerfile + I It looks like the vagrant setup will > get an upgrade from 14.04 to 20.04 as a part of the python3 upgrade, and > seems to run fine so far. > > On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 19:30, Josh Fischer wrote: > > > Thanks for further clarifying. Yes, that is correct. > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 1:16 PM Ning Wang wrote: > > > > > +1. > > > > > > So my understanding is: > > > binary (in future release): Debian 10. > > > source: Debian 9/10 + ubuntu 18.04 + centos 7. version numbers will be > > > updated in the future after more discussions/votes. > > > > > > others will be moved to a "extra" folder only for reference. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 6:13 AM Josh Fischer > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > Based on what I've read on this thread a combination of CentOS/Debian > > > would > > > > be the better options for us to support multiple versions for the > > > > community. We will also support one version of Ubuntu. > > > > > > > > So. I will start a vote in 72 hours that calls on the vote on > this. > > > > I'm going to write down my understanding of what this thread covers > to > > > get > > > > some actionable topics to vote on. If I've written anything down > > > > incorrectly please speak up before we start a vote. > > > > > > > > Debian: > > > > - Debian10 is the official docker image to support and be > published > > > to > > > > Docker Hub, we will also support Debian9. > > > > CentOS: > > > > - We will support CentOS7. Note, I do not think it has native > > > > Python3.7 support, but we are also not there yet. > > > > Ubuntu: > > > > - We will still support one version. At this time the version is > > > 18.04. > > > > > > > > We will upgrade supported versions of each OS as updates/deprecation > of > > > > support are needed. > > > > > > > > Again let's wait 72 hours before starting a vote. Also please check > > that > > > > the statements I wrote down are what you understood! > > > > > > > > See below for notes on lazy consensus: > > > > https://community.apache.org/committers/lazyConsensus.html > > > > > > > > - Josh > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 9:41 PM Ning Wang > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 7:26 PM Nicholas Nezis < > > > nicholas.ne...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I like those options. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 10:15 PM Josh Fischer < > j...@joshfischer.io > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's wait 3 more days for anyone to give input. Then we can > > > start a > > > > > > vote > > > > > > > to make a final decision on which containers for us to support. > > > Keep > > > > > in > > > > > > > mind that even though we do need to plan for Python3 support > > (There > > > > is > > > > > > work > > > > > > > in progress now) we do not need it as of yet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Josh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 8:34 PM thinker0 > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My experience is mainly for CentOS 7, so I think it would be > > nice > > > > if > > > > > it > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > > included. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2020년 5월 21일 (목) 오전 9:56, Josh Fischer >님이 > > > 작성: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well thought out Windham. I like how you narrowed the > > criteria > > > > > down > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > Debian10/CentOS7(depending on PY3 support) thinking about > > > overall > > > > > > > support > > > > > > > > > and what others would need/want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Josh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 8:39 PM Windham Wong < > > > > > > windham.w...@stormeye.io > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My experience is that, people tends to pick their > container > > > > image > > > > > > OS > > > > > > > > > based > > > > > > > > > > on few criterias only: > > > > > > > > > > 1) image size, alpine always win, then debian/centos and > > 3rd > > > is > > > > > > > > > > ubuntu/centos. alpine is always the smallest but not much > > > > library > > > > > > > > > provided > > > > > > > > > > and require to compile manually. debian is always good > > > because > > > > it > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > apt-get to provide loads of library. centos is cool as > >
Re: [DISCUSSION] Docker OS support
Sorry if I missed the rationale for Ubuntu 18.04 instead of 20.04, but would the latest LTS be a better choice? 18.04 was released before Debian 10, so that may be an argument for 20.04 re. compatibility if Debian 10 is the standard. There's already a 20.04 Dockerfile + I It looks like the vagrant setup will get an upgrade from 14.04 to 20.04 as a part of the python3 upgrade, and seems to run fine so far. On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 19:30, Josh Fischer wrote: > Thanks for further clarifying. Yes, that is correct. > > > > On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 1:16 PM Ning Wang wrote: > > > +1. > > > > So my understanding is: > > binary (in future release): Debian 10. > > source: Debian 9/10 + ubuntu 18.04 + centos 7. version numbers will be > > updated in the future after more discussions/votes. > > > > others will be moved to a "extra" folder only for reference. > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 6:13 AM Josh Fischer > wrote: > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > Based on what I've read on this thread a combination of CentOS/Debian > > would > > > be the better options for us to support multiple versions for the > > > community. We will also support one version of Ubuntu. > > > > > > So. I will start a vote in 72 hours that calls on the vote on this. > > > I'm going to write down my understanding of what this thread covers to > > get > > > some actionable topics to vote on. If I've written anything down > > > incorrectly please speak up before we start a vote. > > > > > > Debian: > > > - Debian10 is the official docker image to support and be published > > to > > > Docker Hub, we will also support Debian9. > > > CentOS: > > > - We will support CentOS7. Note, I do not think it has native > > > Python3.7 support, but we are also not there yet. > > > Ubuntu: > > > - We will still support one version. At this time the version is > > 18.04. > > > > > > We will upgrade supported versions of each OS as updates/deprecation of > > > support are needed. > > > > > > Again let's wait 72 hours before starting a vote. Also please check > that > > > the statements I wrote down are what you understood! > > > > > > See below for notes on lazy consensus: > > > https://community.apache.org/committers/lazyConsensus.html > > > > > > - Josh > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 9:41 PM Ning Wang > wrote: > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 7:26 PM Nicholas Nezis < > > nicholas.ne...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I like those options. > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 10:15 PM Josh Fischer > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Let's wait 3 more days for anyone to give input. Then we can > > start a > > > > > vote > > > > > > to make a final decision on which containers for us to support. > > Keep > > > > in > > > > > > mind that even though we do need to plan for Python3 support > (There > > > is > > > > > work > > > > > > in progress now) we do not need it as of yet. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Josh > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 8:34 PM thinker0 > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > My experience is mainly for CentOS 7, so I think it would be > nice > > > if > > > > it > > > > > > was > > > > > > > included. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2020년 5월 21일 (목) 오전 9:56, Josh Fischer 님이 > > 작성: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well thought out Windham. I like how you narrowed the > criteria > > > > down > > > > > to > > > > > > > > Debian10/CentOS7(depending on PY3 support) thinking about > > overall > > > > > > support > > > > > > > > and what others would need/want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Josh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 8:39 PM Windham Wong < > > > > > windham.w...@stormeye.io > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My experience is that, people tends to pick their container > > > image > > > > > OS > > > > > > > > based > > > > > > > > > on few criterias only: > > > > > > > > > 1) image size, alpine always win, then debian/centos and > 3rd > > is > > > > > > > > > ubuntu/centos. alpine is always the smallest but not much > > > library > > > > > > > > provided > > > > > > > > > and require to compile manually. debian is always good > > because > > > it > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > apt-get to provide loads of library. centos is cool as > debian > > > > > because > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > also has good yum repo. ubuntu is always the last because > it > > is > > > > > fat, > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > provides very large range of libraries to use. > > > > > > > > > 2) kernel feature, as mentioned last email, ubuntu has > issue > > > with > > > > > DNS > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > some sort of network discover issues. I remember alpine has > > > some > > > > as > > > > > > > well, > > > > > > > > > because it is very plain, requires many fine tunes be done > > > > > manually. > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > this
Re: [DISCUSSION] Docker OS support
Thanks for further clarifying. Yes, that is correct. On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 1:16 PM Ning Wang wrote: > +1. > > So my understanding is: > binary (in future release): Debian 10. > source: Debian 9/10 + ubuntu 18.04 + centos 7. version numbers will be > updated in the future after more discussions/votes. > > others will be moved to a "extra" folder only for reference. > > > > On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 6:13 AM Josh Fischer wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > Based on what I've read on this thread a combination of CentOS/Debian > would > > be the better options for us to support multiple versions for the > > community. We will also support one version of Ubuntu. > > > > So. I will start a vote in 72 hours that calls on the vote on this. > > I'm going to write down my understanding of what this thread covers to > get > > some actionable topics to vote on. If I've written anything down > > incorrectly please speak up before we start a vote. > > > > Debian: > > - Debian10 is the official docker image to support and be published > to > > Docker Hub, we will also support Debian9. > > CentOS: > > - We will support CentOS7. Note, I do not think it has native > > Python3.7 support, but we are also not there yet. > > Ubuntu: > > - We will still support one version. At this time the version is > 18.04. > > > > We will upgrade supported versions of each OS as updates/deprecation of > > support are needed. > > > > Again let's wait 72 hours before starting a vote. Also please check that > > the statements I wrote down are what you understood! > > > > See below for notes on lazy consensus: > > https://community.apache.org/committers/lazyConsensus.html > > > > - Josh > > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 9:41 PM Ning Wang wrote: > > > > > +1 > > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 7:26 PM Nicholas Nezis < > nicholas.ne...@gmail.com > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I like those options. > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 10:15 PM Josh Fischer > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Let's wait 3 more days for anyone to give input. Then we can > start a > > > > vote > > > > > to make a final decision on which containers for us to support. > Keep > > > in > > > > > mind that even though we do need to plan for Python3 support (There > > is > > > > work > > > > > in progress now) we do not need it as of yet. > > > > > > > > > > - Josh > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 8:34 PM thinker0 > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > My experience is mainly for CentOS 7, so I think it would be nice > > if > > > it > > > > > was > > > > > > included. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2020년 5월 21일 (목) 오전 9:56, Josh Fischer 님이 > 작성: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well thought out Windham. I like how you narrowed the criteria > > > down > > > > to > > > > > > > Debian10/CentOS7(depending on PY3 support) thinking about > overall > > > > > support > > > > > > > and what others would need/want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Josh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 8:39 PM Windham Wong < > > > > windham.w...@stormeye.io > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My experience is that, people tends to pick their container > > image > > > > OS > > > > > > > based > > > > > > > > on few criterias only: > > > > > > > > 1) image size, alpine always win, then debian/centos and 3rd > is > > > > > > > > ubuntu/centos. alpine is always the smallest but not much > > library > > > > > > > provided > > > > > > > > and require to compile manually. debian is always good > because > > it > > > > has > > > > > > > > apt-get to provide loads of library. centos is cool as debian > > > > because > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > also has good yum repo. ubuntu is always the last because it > is > > > > fat, > > > > > > but > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > provides very large range of libraries to use. > > > > > > > > 2) kernel feature, as mentioned last email, ubuntu has issue > > with > > > > DNS > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > some sort of network discover issues. I remember alpine has > > some > > > as > > > > > > well, > > > > > > > > because it is very plain, requires many fine tunes be done > > > > manually. > > > > > in > > > > > > > > this case, centos and debian should win. > > > > > > > > 3) linux stream, obviously, alpine, debian/ubuntu, centos, > are > > 3 > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > streams that use different native tools. Poeple just pick > their > > > > base > > > > > > > image > > > > > > > > based on what they often use in their life. However, I see a > > lot > > > > > debian > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > alpine on docker hub because they are just smaller in size. > > > > > > > > 4. library support. Python library is a very good example in > > this > > > > > case. > > > > > > > As > > > > > > > > Heron is turning to Python 3, which specifically Python 3.7+, > > > some > > > > > > > > discontinued based OS version does not provide the support > > > anymore. > > > > > We > >
Re: [DISCUSSION] Docker OS support
+1. So my understanding is: binary (in future release): Debian 10. source: Debian 9/10 + ubuntu 18.04 + centos 7. version numbers will be updated in the future after more discussions/votes. others will be moved to a "extra" folder only for reference. On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 6:13 AM Josh Fischer wrote: > Hi All, > > Based on what I've read on this thread a combination of CentOS/Debian would > be the better options for us to support multiple versions for the > community. We will also support one version of Ubuntu. > > So. I will start a vote in 72 hours that calls on the vote on this. > I'm going to write down my understanding of what this thread covers to get > some actionable topics to vote on. If I've written anything down > incorrectly please speak up before we start a vote. > > Debian: > - Debian10 is the official docker image to support and be published to > Docker Hub, we will also support Debian9. > CentOS: > - We will support CentOS7. Note, I do not think it has native > Python3.7 support, but we are also not there yet. > Ubuntu: > - We will still support one version. At this time the version is 18.04. > > We will upgrade supported versions of each OS as updates/deprecation of > support are needed. > > Again let's wait 72 hours before starting a vote. Also please check that > the statements I wrote down are what you understood! > > See below for notes on lazy consensus: > https://community.apache.org/committers/lazyConsensus.html > > - Josh > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 9:41 PM Ning Wang wrote: > > > +1 > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 7:26 PM Nicholas Nezis > > > wrote: > > > > > I like those options. > > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 10:15 PM Josh Fischer > > wrote: > > > > > > > Let's wait 3 more days for anyone to give input. Then we can start a > > > vote > > > > to make a final decision on which containers for us to support. Keep > > in > > > > mind that even though we do need to plan for Python3 support (There > is > > > work > > > > in progress now) we do not need it as of yet. > > > > > > > > - Josh > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 8:34 PM thinker0 wrote: > > > > > > > > > My experience is mainly for CentOS 7, so I think it would be nice > if > > it > > > > was > > > > > included. > > > > > > > > > > 2020년 5월 21일 (목) 오전 9:56, Josh Fischer 님이 작성: > > > > > > > > > > > Well thought out Windham. I like how you narrowed the criteria > > down > > > to > > > > > > Debian10/CentOS7(depending on PY3 support) thinking about overall > > > > support > > > > > > and what others would need/want. > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > - Josh > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 8:39 PM Windham Wong < > > > windham.w...@stormeye.io > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > My experience is that, people tends to pick their container > image > > > OS > > > > > > based > > > > > > > on few criterias only: > > > > > > > 1) image size, alpine always win, then debian/centos and 3rd is > > > > > > > ubuntu/centos. alpine is always the smallest but not much > library > > > > > > provided > > > > > > > and require to compile manually. debian is always good because > it > > > has > > > > > > > apt-get to provide loads of library. centos is cool as debian > > > because > > > > > it > > > > > > > also has good yum repo. ubuntu is always the last because it is > > > fat, > > > > > but > > > > > > it > > > > > > > provides very large range of libraries to use. > > > > > > > 2) kernel feature, as mentioned last email, ubuntu has issue > with > > > DNS > > > > > and > > > > > > > some sort of network discover issues. I remember alpine has > some > > as > > > > > well, > > > > > > > because it is very plain, requires many fine tunes be done > > > manually. > > > > in > > > > > > > this case, centos and debian should win. > > > > > > > 3) linux stream, obviously, alpine, debian/ubuntu, centos, are > 3 > > > > > > different > > > > > > > streams that use different native tools. Poeple just pick their > > > base > > > > > > image > > > > > > > based on what they often use in their life. However, I see a > lot > > > > debian > > > > > > and > > > > > > > alpine on docker hub because they are just smaller in size. > > > > > > > 4. library support. Python library is a very good example in > this > > > > case. > > > > > > As > > > > > > > Heron is turning to Python 3, which specifically Python 3.7+, > > some > > > > > > > discontinued based OS version does not provide the support > > anymore. > > > > We > > > > > > have > > > > > > > tested out that, debian9 supports only up to Python3.5, ubuntu > > > 14.04 > > > > > does > > > > > > > not support python3 and ubuntu 16.04 supports up to Python 3.5 > > > only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not a big fan of using centos for docker. Concluding all 4 > > > > points > > > > > > > above, I believe keeping centos7 (if it supports python37), > > > debian10 > > > > > (not > > > > > > > debian9), ubuntu
Re: [DISCUSSION] Docker OS support
Hi All, Based on what I've read on this thread a combination of CentOS/Debian would be the better options for us to support multiple versions for the community. We will also support one version of Ubuntu. So. I will start a vote in 72 hours that calls on the vote on this. I'm going to write down my understanding of what this thread covers to get some actionable topics to vote on. If I've written anything down incorrectly please speak up before we start a vote. Debian: - Debian10 is the official docker image to support and be published to Docker Hub, we will also support Debian9. CentOS: - We will support CentOS7. Note, I do not think it has native Python3.7 support, but we are also not there yet. Ubuntu: - We will still support one version. At this time the version is 18.04. We will upgrade supported versions of each OS as updates/deprecation of support are needed. Again let's wait 72 hours before starting a vote. Also please check that the statements I wrote down are what you understood! See below for notes on lazy consensus: https://community.apache.org/committers/lazyConsensus.html - Josh On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 9:41 PM Ning Wang wrote: > +1 > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 7:26 PM Nicholas Nezis > wrote: > > > I like those options. > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 10:15 PM Josh Fischer > wrote: > > > > > Let's wait 3 more days for anyone to give input. Then we can start a > > vote > > > to make a final decision on which containers for us to support. Keep > in > > > mind that even though we do need to plan for Python3 support (There is > > work > > > in progress now) we do not need it as of yet. > > > > > > - Josh > > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 8:34 PM thinker0 wrote: > > > > > > > My experience is mainly for CentOS 7, so I think it would be nice if > it > > > was > > > > included. > > > > > > > > 2020년 5월 21일 (목) 오전 9:56, Josh Fischer 님이 작성: > > > > > > > > > Well thought out Windham. I like how you narrowed the criteria > down > > to > > > > > Debian10/CentOS7(depending on PY3 support) thinking about overall > > > support > > > > > and what others would need/want. > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > - Josh > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 8:39 PM Windham Wong < > > windham.w...@stormeye.io > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > My experience is that, people tends to pick their container image > > OS > > > > > based > > > > > > on few criterias only: > > > > > > 1) image size, alpine always win, then debian/centos and 3rd is > > > > > > ubuntu/centos. alpine is always the smallest but not much library > > > > > provided > > > > > > and require to compile manually. debian is always good because it > > has > > > > > > apt-get to provide loads of library. centos is cool as debian > > because > > > > it > > > > > > also has good yum repo. ubuntu is always the last because it is > > fat, > > > > but > > > > > it > > > > > > provides very large range of libraries to use. > > > > > > 2) kernel feature, as mentioned last email, ubuntu has issue with > > DNS > > > > and > > > > > > some sort of network discover issues. I remember alpine has some > as > > > > well, > > > > > > because it is very plain, requires many fine tunes be done > > manually. > > > in > > > > > > this case, centos and debian should win. > > > > > > 3) linux stream, obviously, alpine, debian/ubuntu, centos, are 3 > > > > > different > > > > > > streams that use different native tools. Poeple just pick their > > base > > > > > image > > > > > > based on what they often use in their life. However, I see a lot > > > debian > > > > > and > > > > > > alpine on docker hub because they are just smaller in size. > > > > > > 4. library support. Python library is a very good example in this > > > case. > > > > > As > > > > > > Heron is turning to Python 3, which specifically Python 3.7+, > some > > > > > > discontinued based OS version does not provide the support > anymore. > > > We > > > > > have > > > > > > tested out that, debian9 supports only up to Python3.5, ubuntu > > 14.04 > > > > does > > > > > > not support python3 and ubuntu 16.04 supports up to Python 3.5 > > only. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not a big fan of using centos for docker. Concluding all 4 > > > points > > > > > > above, I believe keeping centos7 (if it supports python37), > > debian10 > > > > (not > > > > > > debian9), ubuntu 18.04 (supports python3.7+) would be the best > > > solution > > > > > at > > > > > > the moment. We have to cut off the old images due to our library > > > > upgrade > > > > > > and this is unavoidable. Otherwise, we would have tons of issues > > > > sending > > > > > in > > > > > > about library support in the future and the workload could be a > lot > > > > more > > > > > > for just answering questions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Windham Wong > > > > > > Co-Founder, Technical Director of > > > > > > Stormeye.io, Hong Kong Managed Security Operation Center Limited > > > > > > Email //
