Thanks for further clarifying. Yes, that is correct.
On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 1:16 PM Ning Wang <[email protected]> wrote: > +1. > > So my understanding is: > binary (in future release): Debian 10. > source: Debian 9/10 + ubuntu 18.04 + centos 7. version numbers will be > updated in the future after more discussions/votes. > > others will be moved to a "extra" folder only for reference. > > > > On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 6:13 AM Josh Fischer <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > Based on what I've read on this thread a combination of CentOS/Debian > would > > be the better options for us to support multiple versions for the > > community. We will also support one version of Ubuntu. > > > > So..... I will start a vote in 72 hours that calls on the vote on this. > > I'm going to write down my understanding of what this thread covers to > get > > some actionable topics to vote on. If I've written anything down > > incorrectly please speak up before we start a vote. > > > > Debian: > > - Debian10 is the official docker image to support and be published > to > > Docker Hub, we will also support Debian9. > > CentOS: > > - We will support CentOS7. Note, I do not think it has native > > Python3.7 support, but we are also not there yet. > > Ubuntu: > > - We will still support one version. At this time the version is > 18.04. > > > > We will upgrade supported versions of each OS as updates/deprecation of > > support are needed. > > > > Again let's wait 72 hours before starting a vote. Also please check that > > the statements I wrote down are what you understood! > > > > See below for notes on lazy consensus: > > https://community.apache.org/committers/lazyConsensus.html > > > > - Josh > > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 9:41 PM Ning Wang <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > +1 > > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 7:26 PM Nicholas Nezis < > [email protected] > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I like those options. > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 10:15 PM Josh Fischer <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Let's wait 3 more days for anyone to give input. Then we can > start a > > > > vote > > > > > to make a final decision on which containers for us to support. > Keep > > > in > > > > > mind that even though we do need to plan for Python3 support (There > > is > > > > work > > > > > in progress now) we do not need it as of yet. > > > > > > > > > > - Josh > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 8:34 PM thinker0 <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > My experience is mainly for CentOS 7, so I think it would be nice > > if > > > it > > > > > was > > > > > > included. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2020년 5월 21일 (목) 오전 9:56, Josh Fischer <[email protected]>님이 > 작성: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well thought out Windham. I like how you narrowed the criteria > > > down > > > > to > > > > > > > Debian10/CentOS7(depending on PY3 support) thinking about > overall > > > > > support > > > > > > > and what others would need/want. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Josh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 8:39 PM Windham Wong < > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My experience is that, people tends to pick their container > > image > > > > OS > > > > > > > based > > > > > > > > on few criterias only: > > > > > > > > 1) image size, alpine always win, then debian/centos and 3rd > is > > > > > > > > ubuntu/centos. alpine is always the smallest but not much > > library > > > > > > > provided > > > > > > > > and require to compile manually. debian is always good > because > > it > > > > has > > > > > > > > apt-get to provide loads of library. centos is cool as debian > > > > because > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > also has good yum repo. ubuntu is always the last because it > is > > > > fat, > > > > > > but > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > provides very large range of libraries to use. > > > > > > > > 2) kernel feature, as mentioned last email, ubuntu has issue > > with > > > > DNS > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > some sort of network discover issues. I remember alpine has > > some > > > as > > > > > > well, > > > > > > > > because it is very plain, requires many fine tunes be done > > > > manually. > > > > > in > > > > > > > > this case, centos and debian should win. > > > > > > > > 3) linux stream, obviously, alpine, debian/ubuntu, centos, > are > > 3 > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > streams that use different native tools. Poeple just pick > their > > > > base > > > > > > > image > > > > > > > > based on what they often use in their life. However, I see a > > lot > > > > > debian > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > alpine on docker hub because they are just smaller in size. > > > > > > > > 4. library support. Python library is a very good example in > > this > > > > > case. > > > > > > > As > > > > > > > > Heron is turning to Python 3, which specifically Python 3.7+, > > > some > > > > > > > > discontinued based OS version does not provide the support > > > anymore. > > > > > We > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > tested out that, debian9 supports only up to Python3.5, > ubuntu > > > > 14.04 > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > not support python3 and ubuntu 16.04 supports up to Python > 3.5 > > > > only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not a big fan of using centos for docker. Concluding > all 4 > > > > > points > > > > > > > > above, I believe keeping centos7 (if it supports python37), > > > > debian10 > > > > > > (not > > > > > > > > debian9), ubuntu 18.04 (supports python3.7+) would be the > best > > > > > solution > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > the moment. We have to cut off the old images due to our > > library > > > > > > upgrade > > > > > > > > and this is unavoidable. Otherwise, we would have tons of > > issues > > > > > > sending > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > about library support in the future and the workload could > be a > > > lot > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > for just answering questions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Windham Wong > > > > > > > > Co-Founder, Technical Director of > > > > > > > > Stormeye.io, Hong Kong Managed Security Operation Center > > Limited > > > > > > > > Email // [email protected] (mailto: > > > [email protected] > > > > ) > > > > > > > > Phone // +852_3590_2212_|_+852_9832_0707 (tel:+85235902212) > > > > > > > > Fax // +852_3590_2202 (tel:+852_3590_2202) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5月 19 2020, at 6:09 早上, Josh Fischer <[email protected] > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi All, I think using CentOS and either Debian or Ubuntu > is a > > > > good > > > > > > > idea. > > > > > > > > I would pick Debian over Ubuntu for the reason that Nick > > pointed > > > > out > > > > > > in a > > > > > > > > previous email of DNS issues in Kubernetes. I"ve copy and > > pasted > > > a > > > > > > > section > > > > > > > > of Nick's previous email. ### Start I've run into issues with > > > > Ubuntu > > > > > > > images > > > > > > > > having DNS issues in Kubernetes. > > > > > > > > https://github.com/kubernetes/kubeadm/issues/787 ### End As > > for > > > > what > > > > > > > ends > > > > > > > > up being the official Docker container I'm fine with either > > > choice > > > > > > Debian > > > > > > > > or CentOS. On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 2:10 AM Ning Wang wrote: > > > > Yeah. > > > > > For > > > > > > > > binary release, the license is a huge factor. > > On Sun, May > > 17, > > > > > 2020 > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > 2:32 PM Josh Fischer wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > When it > comes > > > to > > > > > > > choosing > > > > > > > > the official Apache Docker image for Heron we > > have to > think > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > > licensing issues first. Everything that is > installed > > > into > > > the > > > > > > > > container at build time with the exception of the "FROM" > > > > > > > statement > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the Dockerfile must be ALv2 compatible. OpenJDK is under > > > GPLv2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > is not compatible with Apache. However we can get around this > > if > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bring the OpenJDK into the container via a FROM statement. > I've > > > > > copied > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > reply from Dave in our dev list in a previous email. See > > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ######## Start ######## > > Regarding OpenJDK and GPL2 - here > > is > > > > what > > > > > > > Roman > > > > > > > > the VP, Legal wrote when > > answering Beam’s questions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Roman > > > > > > > > Shaposhnik commented on LEGAL-503: > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > > > Hey [~altay] > > if > > > > you > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > like to continue linking to the Docker release > > artifact > > from > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://beam.apache.org > > you will have: > > 1. Transition > > to > > > > the > > > > > > > > official ASF dockerhub org: > > > > https://hub.docker.com/u/apache > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. > > > > > > > > Start including that binary convenience artifact into your > VOTE > > > > > > > > > > > > threads > > > > > > > > on Beam releases > > 3. Make sure that all Cat-X licenses are > > > ONLY > > > > > > > brought > > > > > > > > into your > > container via FROM statements > > ######## End > > > > > ######## > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So at the end of the day, we need to use a container that > has > > > > Java > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > installed in it so that when we create our > official > > > > image > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > can inherit > > that java containing image via a FROM > > statement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > Josh > > > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 4:12 PM H W wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We > > > > > > > > use Centos 7 as well. > > > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2020 at > 10:41 > > > AM > > > > > > > Nicholas > > > > > > > > Nezis < > > [email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some > > > > > > > > thoughts I'd like to add to the discussion: > > > > > > > > > > > Debian > > > > > and > > > > > > > > Ubuntu are somewhat similar. Would it make sense to pick > > one > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > those and pair with Centos? > > > > > > > > I've run into > > > > issues > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > Ubuntu images having DNS issues in > > Kubernetes. > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/kubernetes/kubeadm/issues/787 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ubuntu > > > > > > > > 14.04 should be removed. It was end of life last year. For > > > > those > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > you using Heron in production, is anyone using Ubuntu > > 16? > > > > My > > > > > > > vote > > > > > > > > > would > > > be > > > > to remove it also. For what it's > worth, > > my > > > > use > > > > > > > case > > > > > > > > is in K8s and we > > use > > > > the Centos7 image on a > Centos > > 7 > > > > OS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We should do a test of the official image and helm > > > chart > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > Kubernetes > > > > (maybe with Kind > https://kind.sigs.k8s.io/ > > ) > > > as > > > > > > part > > > > > > > > of our release > > > > process. This might be nice to add as > an > > > > > > > integration > > > > > > > > test. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > > > > Sun, May 17, 2020, 12:37 PM Ning Wang > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That > > > > > > is > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > good point. We need to adjust the OS version accordingly > > > > > too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 2:28 AM Windham Wong < > > > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > debian 10 has no python 2.7 support. Ubuntu 16.04 > has > > > no > > > > > > > python > > > > > > > > > > 3.7+ > > > > dev > > > > > > library support. hope this > helps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Sent from myMail for Android Sunday, 17 May > > 2020, > > > > > > 11:34AM > > > > > > > > +08:00 > > from > > > > > Ning > > > > > > Wang > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > >We have > > > > talked > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > it a few times in different places. Let's > > make > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >decision here. We don't have enough resources to support > many > > > > > > > > > > > > > > docker > > > > > > > > > > > > > OSes > > > > > > >(technically we only support > Debian, > > > > > Ubuntu, > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > CentOS but each > > of > > > > them > > > > > > >has multiple > > > > > > versions). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Things we have agreed on (my > > > > understanding) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >- for binary release, we are going to choose one OS > one > > > > > > > > > > version. I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >remember that Debian 9 was the decision. An open > > > > > question > > > > > > > is: > > > > > > > > do > > we > > > > want > > > > > > to > > > > > > >switch to > > > Debian > > > > > 10 > > > > > > > now? > > > > > > > > We haven't had a binary release yet, so > > > there > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >still time. As the main target, I think 1. the image > should > > > > > > > > > > > > > > compile > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >successfully. and 2 the image should be tested: > > the > > > > > tools > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > an > > > > example > > > > > > >topology. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >- > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > source release, we haven't talked about it very much. > > > > > > > > > > Personally > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >feel it is a reasonable expectation that, if we > > have > > > > the > > > > > > > > Docker > > file > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > >core > > > > folders, > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > should at least compile. Otherwise, it's a > failed > > > > > > > build > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >hence a failed release. We are not going to test run the > > > tools > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > examples > > > > > > >for each release though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Finally, a question about OS versions. I believe at > > least > > > > two > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > releases > > > > > > >should be supported because most people > > > don't > > > > > > > upgrade > > > > > > > > to the > > latest > > > > > > version > > > > > > >when it is > > out > > > > in > > > > > > more > > > > > > > > serious scenarios, hence IMO the second > > > oldest > > > > > > > > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >often be more useful than the latest one from a > > > > convenience > > > > > > > > > > > > > > point > > of > > > > > view. > > > > > > >On the other hand, > > this > > > > is > > > > > > too > > > > > > > > flexible, and we will spend time > > > > thinking > > > > > > > > > > >about > > > > > it > > > > > > > > again. I think a clear guideline could be helpful to > us. > > > > > > > > > > For > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >example: > > > > > > >- We only include only Debian > > > (popular > > > > > in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > server world) and > > > Ubuntu > > > > > > >(popular in > servers > > > and > > > > > > > > workstations). > > > > > > >- for the main OS (Debian) we > > choose > > > > the > > > > > > > latest > > > > > > > > to compile and > > test > > > > for > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > > > > >binary > > > > > > > > release. > > > > > > >- for a given OS, only two versions > (most > > > > > likely > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > most and > the > > > > second > > > > > > >recent releases) > are > > > > > > included > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the core source code and they > > need > > > to > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >fixed ASAP if they don't compile. > > > > > > >- OSs and > other > > > > > > versions > > > > > > > > could be included in a special folder > and > > > but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >there > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > no guarantee that the code will compile. Fixes from the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > community > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >are welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >How > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > you guys think? > > > > > > >--ning > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
