Re: [question] what is text [ x-comment ]

[Andrea Pescetti]

On 23/02/2013 janI wrote:

therefore I concentrate on
getting a solution that works and are robust instead of utilizing every
possibility (that are not used in 98% of the messages, at this moment I
have removed 11 x-comment).


Thank you for clarifying. Yes, it is perfectly understandable (and it is 
a big effort in itself) to privilege the main features for the time 
being. No need for over-engineered solutions if they are not immediately 
useful.


Regards,
  Andrea.

Re: [question] what is text [ x-comment ]

[janI]

On 23 February 2013 12:38, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:

> On 22/02/2013 janI wrote:
>
>> so to cut it short, I would like to provide the most information posssible
>> to translators but comments is not supported by the .po file structure.
>>
>
> Am I missing something? PO files do support comments, and PO editors, like
> POEdit, support displaying comments. So (even though I have no idea if the
> current x-comments have meaningful information or not, so I surely won't
> complain if x-comments are dropped) supporting PO files won't get in the
> way of supporting comments.
>
> The documentation at
> http://www.gnu.org/savannah-**checkouts/gnu/gettext/manual/**
> html_node/PO-Files.html
> shows support for both translator's comments and extracted (programmer's)
> comments.
>
> Regards,
>   Andrea.
>

Hi.

No offence, but that is what I call the easy answer without considering the
field we work in.

I know that the format of .po files are:

white-space
 #  translator-comments
 #. extracted-comments
 #: reference...
 #, flag...
 #| msgid previous-untranslated-string
 msgid untranslated-string
 msgstr translated-string

However I have not managed to utilize all of this information, and make
sure it works across pootle, our own source files and editors like poedit,
not forgetting that some of our translators use "normal" editors.

But I stand corrected, and hereby reformulate my reply to tj:

I am not skilled enough to use the comments in .po files, consistent with
the way x-comment (and x-translate) are used in our source files. I am
currently trying to make sure the .po files are generated consistent, which
is more than enough of a challenge.

We have so many things in the current translation that is not working
correctly, like I just found a string with the text:

"Note: After a password has been set, the document will only open with the
password. Should you lose the password, there will be no way to recover the
document. Please also note that this password is case-sensitive."

Our current solution only detects (and translates):

"Note: After a password has been set, the document will only open with"

Which to me missed significant information, therefore I concentrate on
getting a solution that works and are robust instead of utilizing every
possibility (that are not used in 98% of the messages, at this moment I
have removed 11 x-comment).

If anybody feel they can do a better job or help me make a better solution,
please come forward, I would be more than happy to get help.

Sorry about the not fullfilling answer before, I hope the corrected answer
clarifies the problems and explains why I focus as I do.

Jan I.

Re: [question] what is text [ x-comment ]

[Andrea Pescetti]

On 22/02/2013 janI wrote:

so to cut it short, I would like to provide the most information posssible
to translators but comments is not supported by the .po file structure.


Am I missing something? PO files do support comments, and PO editors, 
like POEdit, support displaying comments. So (even though I have no idea 
if the current x-comments have meaningful information or not, so I 
surely won't complain if x-comments are dropped) supporting PO files 
won't get in the way of supporting comments.


The documentation at
http://www.gnu.org/savannah-checkouts/gnu/gettext/manual/html_node/PO-Files.html
shows support for both translator's comments and extracted 
(programmer's) comments.


Regards,
  Andrea.

Re: [question] what is text [ x-comment ]

[janI]

On 22 February 2013 13:57, TJ Frazier  wrote:

> Hi, Jan,
>
>
> On 2/22/2013 06:21, janI wrote:
>
>> On 22 February 2013 10:10, Jürgen Schmidt  wrote:
>>
>>  On 2/22/13 9:45 AM, janI wrote:
>>>
 On 22 February 2013 09:30, Andre Fischer  wrote:

  On 22.02.2013 08:29, janI wrote:
>
>  Hi.
>>
>> the .src sources relatively often contain a text line:
>>
>>   text [x-comment] = "..."
>>
>> most times the ... is empty, but it also contains english text, and in
>>
> one
>>>
 case a multibyte charecter text.
>>
>>
> Hi Jan,
>
> I do not know the answer but would like to make a guess:
> the x-comment "language" is used to annotate the actual string with a
> message from developer to translator.
>
> My guess is based on some very hazy memory and by looking at files like
> officecfg/registry/data/org/openoffice/Office/Embedding.xcu
>
> Lines 27 to 31 for example look like this:
>
>   
> 
>
>  Primary
>  Is not shown in UI. No
>
 translation
>>>
 is required.
>
>
>
> If I am right then today you would write this like this:
>
>   
> 
>
>  Primary
>
>
> Note the additional
>  oor:localized="false"
> in the  tag.
>
>  the trigger today is the missing "xml:*lang=" only tags with that are
 extracted.

 the x-comment are not extracted to the sdf files, so the translators

>>> never
>>>
 gets the information.


  But again, this is only a guess, not a fact.
>
>  Thx for your guess, it works well with my guess (meaning I could
 remove
 x-comment).

 I hope someone has some cool facts.

>>>
>>> no cool facts but Andre's guess sounds reasonable and it is possible
>>> that it was an idea to provide some context information to translators
>>> but that the process was never finalized.
>>>
>>> Juergen
>>>
>>>
>> Both you and andre are in sync with what I think.
>>
>> If nobody objects within the next 72 hours using lazy consensus, I will
>> remove x-comment, and the new tool (just as the current tool) will not use
>> the messages.
>>
>> rgds
>> Jan I.
>>
>>  Just a suggestion (not an objection; I'm not the one doing any of the
> work!).
>
> (1) IMHO, any human-readable language that does not have some "comment"
> facility is seriously deficient. I am thinking of everything from a simple
> asterisk in column 1, to the elaborate HTML "" which we
> sometimes see on the wiki.
> (2) Assuming that your output language(s) have such a facility, you might
> consider transforming "x-comment" into a comment in the output.
>
> /tj/

I understand and share your concern, but the current x-comments would in my
opinion not serve a usefull purpose, and with the .po file demand I have no
way of adding comments.

had we as a community gone for the xml solution, we would have a comment
field among other nice features.

so to cut it short, I would like to provide the most information posssible
to translators but comments is not supported by the .po file structure.

rgds
jan I.


>
>
>
>>>
 rgds
 Jan I.


> -Andre
>
>
>
>  We have no language "x-comment", and it is currently not extracted,
>> however
>> there are a couple of places in the code noting it is automatically
>> loaded.
>>
>> So my questions are:
>> 1) Is this leftovers from and older version, and no longer used ?
>> 2) if not, how is it used ?
>> 3) if not, should it be translated (if it can appear in the ui it
>>
> should
>>>
 be
>> translated) ?
>>
>> thanks in advance for your help
>> Jan I.
>>
>>
>>
>

>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Re: [question] what is text [ x-comment ]

[TJ Frazier]

Hi, Jan,

On 2/22/2013 06:21, janI wrote:

On 22 February 2013 10:10, Jürgen Schmidt  wrote:


On 2/22/13 9:45 AM, janI wrote:

On 22 February 2013 09:30, Andre Fischer  wrote:


On 22.02.2013 08:29, janI wrote:


Hi.

the .src sources relatively often contain a text line:

  text [x-comment] = "..."

most times the ... is empty, but it also contains english text, and in

one

case a multibyte charecter text.



Hi Jan,

I do not know the answer but would like to make a guess:
the x-comment "language" is used to annotate the actual string with a
message from developer to translator.

My guess is based on some very hazy memory and by looking at files like
officecfg/registry/data/org/**openoffice/Office/Embedding.**xcu

Lines 27 to 31 for example look like this:

  

   
 Primary
 Is not shown in UI. No

translation

is required.
   


If I am right then today you would write this like this:

  

   
 Primary
   

Note the additional
 oor:localized="false"
in the  tag.


the trigger today is the missing "xml:*lang=" only tags with that are
extracted.

the x-comment are not extracted to the sdf files, so the translators

never

gets the information.



But again, this is only a guess, not a fact.


Thx for your guess, it works well with my guess (meaning I could remove
x-comment).

I hope someone has some cool facts.


no cool facts but Andre's guess sounds reasonable and it is possible
that it was an idea to provide some context information to translators
but that the process was never finalized.

Juergen



Both you and andre are in sync with what I think.

If nobody objects within the next 72 hours using lazy consensus, I will
remove x-comment, and the new tool (just as the current tool) will not use
the messages.

rgds
Jan I.

Just a suggestion (not an objection; I'm not the one doing any of the 
work!).


(1) IMHO, any human-readable language that does not have some "comment" 
facility is seriously deficient. I am thinking of everything from a 
simple asterisk in column 1, to the elaborate HTML "" which 
we sometimes see on the wiki.
(2) Assuming that your output language(s) have such a facility, you 
might consider transforming "x-comment" into a comment in the output.


/tj/





rgds
Jan I.



-Andre




We have no language "x-comment", and it is currently not extracted,
however
there are a couple of places in the code noting it is automatically
loaded.

So my questions are:
1) Is this leftovers from and older version, and no longer used ?
2) if not, how is it used ?
3) if not, should it be translated (if it can appear in the ui it

should

be
translated) ?

thanks in advance for your help
Jan I.

Re: [question] what is text [ x-comment ]

[janI]

On 22 February 2013 10:10, Jürgen Schmidt  wrote:

> On 2/22/13 9:45 AM, janI wrote:
> > On 22 February 2013 09:30, Andre Fischer  wrote:
> >
> >> On 22.02.2013 08:29, janI wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi.
> >>>
> >>> the .src sources relatively often contain a text line:
> >>>
> >>>  text [x-comment] = "..."
> >>>
> >>> most times the ... is empty, but it also contains english text, and in
> one
> >>> case a multibyte charecter text.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Hi Jan,
> >>
> >> I do not know the answer but would like to make a guess:
> >> the x-comment "language" is used to annotate the actual string with a
> >> message from developer to translator.
> >>
> >> My guess is based on some very hazy memory and by looking at files like
> >> officecfg/registry/data/org/**openoffice/Office/Embedding.**xcu
> >>
> >> Lines 27 to 31 for example look like this:
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >>   
> >> Primary
> >> Is not shown in UI. No
> translation
> >> is required.
> >>   
> >>
> >>
> >> If I am right then today you would write this like this:
> >>
> >>  
> >>
> >>   
> >> Primary
> >>   
> >>
> >> Note the additional
> >> oor:localized="false"
> >> in the  tag.
> >>
> > the trigger today is the missing "xml:*lang=" only tags with that are
> > extracted.
> >
> > the x-comment are not extracted to the sdf files, so the translators
> never
> > gets the information.
> >
> >
> >> But again, this is only a guess, not a fact.
> >>
> > Thx for your guess, it works well with my guess (meaning I could remove
> > x-comment).
> >
> > I hope someone has some cool facts.
>
> no cool facts but Andre's guess sounds reasonable and it is possible
> that it was an idea to provide some context information to translators
> but that the process was never finalized.
>
> Juergen
>

Both you and andre are in sync with what I think.

If nobody objects within the next 72 hours using lazy consensus, I will
remove x-comment, and the new tool (just as the current tool) will not use
the messages.

rgds
Jan I.

>
> >
> > rgds
> > Jan I.
> >
> >>
> >> -Andre
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> We have no language "x-comment", and it is currently not extracted,
> >>> however
> >>> there are a couple of places in the code noting it is automatically
> >>> loaded.
> >>>
> >>> So my questions are:
> >>> 1) Is this leftovers from and older version, and no longer used ?
> >>> 2) if not, how is it used ?
> >>> 3) if not, should it be translated (if it can appear in the ui it
> should
> >>> be
> >>> translated) ?
> >>>
> >>> thanks in advance for your help
> >>> Jan I.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
>

Re: [question] what is text [ x-comment ]

[Jürgen Schmidt]

On 2/22/13 9:45 AM, janI wrote:
> On 22 February 2013 09:30, Andre Fischer  wrote:
> 
>> On 22.02.2013 08:29, janI wrote:
>>
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> the .src sources relatively often contain a text line:
>>>
>>>  text [x-comment] = "..."
>>>
>>> most times the ... is empty, but it also contains english text, and in one
>>> case a multibyte charecter text.
>>>
>>
>> Hi Jan,
>>
>> I do not know the answer but would like to make a guess:
>> the x-comment "language" is used to annotate the actual string with a
>> message from developer to translator.
>>
>> My guess is based on some very hazy memory and by looking at files like
>> officecfg/registry/data/org/**openoffice/Office/Embedding.**xcu
>>
>> Lines 27 to 31 for example look like this:
>>
>>  
>>
>>   
>> Primary
>> Is not shown in UI. No translation
>> is required.
>>   
>>
>>
>> If I am right then today you would write this like this:
>>
>>  
>>
>>   
>> Primary
>>   
>>
>> Note the additional
>> oor:localized="false"
>> in the  tag.
>>
> the trigger today is the missing "xml:*lang=" only tags with that are
> extracted.
> 
> the x-comment are not extracted to the sdf files, so the translators never
> gets the information.
> 
> 
>> But again, this is only a guess, not a fact.
>>
> Thx for your guess, it works well with my guess (meaning I could remove
> x-comment).
> 
> I hope someone has some cool facts.

no cool facts but Andre's guess sounds reasonable and it is possible
that it was an idea to provide some context information to translators
but that the process was never finalized.

Juergen

> 
> rgds
> Jan I.
> 
>>
>> -Andre
>>
>>
>>
>>> We have no language "x-comment", and it is currently not extracted,
>>> however
>>> there are a couple of places in the code noting it is automatically
>>> loaded.
>>>
>>> So my questions are:
>>> 1) Is this leftovers from and older version, and no longer used ?
>>> 2) if not, how is it used ?
>>> 3) if not, should it be translated (if it can appear in the ui it should
>>> be
>>> translated) ?
>>>
>>> thanks in advance for your help
>>> Jan I.
>>>
>>>
>>
> 

Re: [question] what is text [ x-comment ]

[janI]

On 22 February 2013 09:30, Andre Fischer  wrote:

> On 22.02.2013 08:29, janI wrote:
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> the .src sources relatively often contain a text line:
>>
>>  text [x-comment] = "..."
>>
>> most times the ... is empty, but it also contains english text, and in one
>> case a multibyte charecter text.
>>
>
> Hi Jan,
>
> I do not know the answer but would like to make a guess:
> the x-comment "language" is used to annotate the actual string with a
> message from developer to translator.
>
> My guess is based on some very hazy memory and by looking at files like
> officecfg/registry/data/org/**openoffice/Office/Embedding.**xcu
>
> Lines 27 to 31 for example look like this:
>
>  
>
>   
> Primary
> Is not shown in UI. No translation
> is required.
>   
>
>
> If I am right then today you would write this like this:
>
>  
>
>   
> Primary
>   
>
> Note the additional
> oor:localized="false"
> in the  tag.
>
the trigger today is the missing "xml:*lang=" only tags with that are
extracted.

the x-comment are not extracted to the sdf files, so the translators never
gets the information.


> But again, this is only a guess, not a fact.
>
Thx for your guess, it works well with my guess (meaning I could remove
x-comment).

I hope someone has some cool facts.

rgds
Jan I.

>
> -Andre
>
>
>
>> We have no language "x-comment", and it is currently not extracted,
>> however
>> there are a couple of places in the code noting it is automatically
>> loaded.
>>
>> So my questions are:
>> 1) Is this leftovers from and older version, and no longer used ?
>> 2) if not, how is it used ?
>> 3) if not, should it be translated (if it can appear in the ui it should
>> be
>> translated) ?
>>
>> thanks in advance for your help
>> Jan I.
>>
>>
>

Re: [question] what is text [ x-comment ]

[Andre Fischer]

On 22.02.2013 08:29, janI wrote:

Hi.

the .src sources relatively often contain a text line:

 text [x-comment] = "..."

most times the ... is empty, but it also contains english text, and in one
case a multibyte charecter text.


Hi Jan,

I do not know the answer but would like to make a guess:
the x-comment "language" is used to annotate the actual string with a 
message from developer to translator.


My guess is based on some very hazy memory and by looking at files like
officecfg/registry/data/org/openoffice/Office/Embedding.xcu

Lines 27 to 31 for example look like this:

 
   
  
Primary
Is not shown in UI. No translation is 
required.
  


If I am right then today you would write this like this:

 
   
  
Primary
  

Note the additional
oor:localized="false"
in the  tag.

But again, this is only a guess, not a fact.

-Andre



We have no language "x-comment", and it is currently not extracted, however
there are a couple of places in the code noting it is automatically loaded.

So my questions are:
1) Is this leftovers from and older version, and no longer used ?
2) if not, how is it used ?
3) if not, should it be translated (if it can appear in the ui it should be
translated) ?

thanks in advance for your help
Jan I.

[question] what is text [ x-comment ]

[janI]

Hi.

the .src sources relatively often contain a text line:

text [x-comment] = "..."

most times the ... is empty, but it also contains english text, and in one
case a multibyte charecter text.

We have no language "x-comment", and it is currently not extracted, however
there are a couple of places in the code noting it is automatically loaded.

So my questions are:
1) Is this leftovers from and older version, and no longer used ?
2) if not, how is it used ?
3) if not, should it be translated (if it can appear in the ui it should be
translated) ?

thanks in advance for your help
Jan I.