Re: [dev] i73155 Reconsideration of read-only mode
tora - Takamichi Akiyama wrote: > The problem is that users in the world could not be I. > I can follow your suggestion, but what about tremendous number of casual > users all over the world? Well, sometimes we must protect users from shooting themselves into their foot (ore somewhere else). :-) If the readonly state of plugged files is a problem perhaps it shouldn't be installed by default. But I can't understand the problem. In the world of the internet it's usual that files are viewed, not editied. So an odt file serves the same purpose as an html,txt or pdf file. > Another scenario: > The Human Resource in a traditional company (*1) sent to all employees > an e-mail commanding them open and fill an document, print, and submit it. > The document can be obtained from \\Fileserver\Path\Filename. > > User A opens the document under normal mode. > User B opens it under read-only mode. > User C opens it under read-only mode. > > The users B, C, and the rest are not given meaningful information on the > situation. They face "read-only." They are warned with a message > "This document cannot be edited, possibly due to missing access right. > Do you want to edit a copy of the document?" upon clicking on an icon > "Edit file." The similar situation still happens. Yes. Sorry, but it's stupid to put a document on a file server and let it open by everybody. Do you really want to have the private data of a user stored into this document so that the next user can read them? They should use a template instead. This will give every user a new instance of the document that they can save on their own disk. The file on the server *must* be read-only. I would even make it read-only for the first user by removing write access from it. Ciao, Mathias -- Mathias Bauer (mba) - Project Lead OpenOffice.org Writer OpenOffice.org Engineering at Sun: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS Please don't reply to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]". I use it for the OOo lists and only rarely read other mails sent to it. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] i73155 Reconsideration of read-only mode
Mathias Bauer wrote: > Besides that entering data into forms should be done using input fields > and a submit button. There is no need to "save" the form (=document) to > transfer form data. Even if the form is an OOo document it can perform > this task perfectly in read-only mode. Now I understand. You mean use of form controls in Writer and/or use of XForm would help such kind of task. I think so, but most office workers, not engineer, would never find such a useful-but-complex-for-novice-user feature. A submit button normally emits a POST operation. The web system has to handle with submitted data. In many cases, web based form does not work very well. Think of the following scenario. A city office wants to conduct an questionnaire over their local offices. A staff in a local office opens the web form and starts to fill fields with answers and then print it and put the handout on the desk of his boss to get an approval. Unfortunately, his boss is out of office today. Before he leaves his office, he turns off his computer. On the next day, he have noticed all efforts that he made yesterday are lost. Although we have been living with the technology, we still work in a traditional way - open it, fill it, print it, get an approval with a stamp seal, and fax it. Ciao, Tora > If I understood your use case correctly it looks like the misuse of > documents as form and data container at the same time. > > Some other points in the issueare quite interesting though, e.g. the > comment about "not accessible object". It fits nicely to some other more > general ideas about the "read only mode". > > Ciao, > Mathias > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] i73155 Reconsideration of read-only mode
Mathias Bauer wrote: > tora - Takamichi Akiyama wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Anyone, good solution? >> http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73155 >> >> User scenario: >> 1. A citizen visits a web site of public office to obtain an application >> form. >> 2. She clicks on a link decorated with an icon of OpenDocument file format. >> 3. The document is successfully opened in her web browser with >> OpenOffice.org, >> but she cannot enter anything in it. > > Opening a document in a browser plugin for editing is not a good idea as > the environment is too fragile to risk your data. As an example, when > the browser is closed or the user opens another page in the same browser > window all data entered is lost if the user didn't save it before. There > is no way to prevent a browser to throw out a plugin! You have a good point. I understand that. > So if you have a lot of situations like this you should deinstall the > plugin so that the documents get openend in OOo directly. The problem is that users in the world could not be I. I can follow your suggestion, but what about tremendous number of casual users all over the world? > Besides that entering data into forms should be done using input fields > and a submit button. There is no need to "save" the form (=document) to > transfer form data. Even if the form is an OOo document it can perform > this task perfectly in read-only mode. > > If I understood your use case correctly it looks like the misuse of > documents as form and data container at the same time. > > Some other points in the issueare quite interesting though, e.g. the > comment about "not accessible object". It fits nicely to some other more > general ideas about the "read only mode". Another scenario: The Human Resource in a traditional company (*1) sent to all employees an e-mail commanding them open and fill an document, print, and submit it. The document can be obtained from \\Fileserver\Path\Filename. User A opens the document under normal mode. User B opens it under read-only mode. User C opens it under read-only mode. The users B, C, and the rest are not given meaningful information on the situation. They face "read-only." They are warned with a message "This document cannot be edited, possibly due to missing access right. Do you want to edit a copy of the document?" upon clicking on an icon "Edit file." The similar situation still happens. *1: the company does not have web specialists who can create a web form and system that automatically gathering submitted data. Caio, Tora - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] i73155 Reconsideration of read-only mode
tora - Takamichi Akiyama wrote: > Hi, > > Anyone, good solution? > http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73155 > > User scenario: > 1. A citizen visits a web site of public office to obtain an application > form. > 2. She clicks on a link decorated with an icon of OpenDocument file format. > 3. The document is successfully opened in her web browser with > OpenOffice.org, > but she cannot enter anything in it. Opening a document in a browser plugin for editing is not a good idea as the environment is too fragile to risk your data. As an example, when the browser is closed or the user opens another page in the same browser window all data entered is lost if the user didn't save it before. There is no way to prevent a browser to throw out a plugin! So if you have a lot of situations like this you should deinstall the plugin so that the documents get openend in OOo directly. Besides that entering data into forms should be done using input fields and a submit button. There is no need to "save" the form (=document) to transfer form data. Even if the form is an OOo document it can perform this task perfectly in read-only mode. If I understood your use case correctly it looks like the misuse of documents as form and data container at the same time. Some other points in the issueare quite interesting though, e.g. the comment about "not accessible object". It fits nicely to some other more general ideas about the "read only mode". Ciao, Mathias -- Mathias Bauer (mba) - Project Lead OpenOffice.org Writer OpenOffice.org Engineering at Sun: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS Please don't reply to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]". I use it for the OOo lists and only rarely read other mails sent to it. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[dev] i73155 Reconsideration of read-only mode
Hi, Anyone, good solution? http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=73155 User scenario: 1. A citizen visits a web site of public office to obtain an application form. 2. She clicks on a link decorated with an icon of OpenDocument file format. 3. The document is successfully opened in her web browser with OpenOffice.org, but she cannot enter anything in it. (snip) What she might expect are: 1. She clicks on the link to open an application form. 2. She wants to immediately start filling the document. 3. She wants to save it with its original file name or similar name. Realities: a) She gets interrupted with unwanted warning messages two times. b) The messages are enough to make her worried about violation of access right. c) The original file name has been lost upon her saving the document. Kind regards, Tora - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
