Re: [dev] charter discussion ?
Hi, Charles-H. Schulz schrieb: As said - all project memebers (including category leads) are eligible. The difference is in the electorate or constituency. Category leads are mentioned for the electorates: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Items/Election_Process_Proposal#Council_Constituencies Ah, I had never seen that page. So do you (and others ) confirm that according to this council draft that the Category leads of the Incubator project can be elected as a product development representative and the Category leads of the NLC as a NL representative? . The NLC Category lead might even be elected as CCR or Code Contributor Representative. Any project member can candidate for any (but the Sun) seat. Obviously it would be better to candidate for a seat, if the electorate knows you and can confirm that you will be able to act in the name of this specific group. André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[dev] Re: [discuss] Re: OpenOffice.org Community Mapping Project
Hi, Zaheda Bhorat schrieb: :-( We have only six community entries so far in our attempt to create an OpenOffice.org community map. None of the entries include developers. Our goal was to get off to a great start to this project with many entries in time for OOoCon 2008 in Beijing next week. Sometimes it might be better to use the resources that are already there instead of creating new ones: http://www.frappr.com/ooodev/map This has many of our developers and contributors.SOmewith short statements what they do here in the project. (Unfortunately most of the recent entries are spam) The curious thing about communities is that they grow where they like - and not when and where we like them to grow. André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Re: [project leads] Re: [discuss] Re: OpenOffice.org Community Mapping Project
Hi, eric b schrieb: Hi Andre, Just a question : what does mean Developer for you exactly ? *sigh* .. depends. Normally I'd say people who contribute code. Unfortunately many people claim, that communites consist of developers (somemayextend to and other less important contributors) I often see developer as someone who takes part in the process of product development. Looking at your map, I didn't found too much of people who commited anything, and I seriously doubt this is a correct description of the OpenOffice.org developers, but maybe I misunderstood the sense of the word ... At least there are more code contributors then zero out of six. You may click the area around hamburg there are some. But you'll also find people like Caolan McNamara or Cedric Bosdonnat. And if it qualifies to have at least one bug fixed, you'll find even me (information an place is outdated) But anyway - this was not the intention of my mail, to define what a developer is and what not. I was rather focusing on the fact that communities happen and often in an unexpected way (e.g. if you ask developers to answer a question you might geht hundrets of answers from non-developers but non from a developer ;) ) André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Who can closes an issue[ was: Fwd: [l10n-dev] Spanish version : issue in OLH
Hi, Nguyen Vu Hung schrieb: Hi all, I find it very abnormal that the person who shoots an issue can't close it. Any comment? This already works - see issue 96166 http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=96166 http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_activity.cgi?id=96166 The user Thalion72 is my test user who has no special privilieges. For the Spanish team, could you please take care of this issue and closed it if corrected already? http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=69425 The key point here is the question if it is corrected already. That means someone foirst needs to set the resouition (the submitter can do this). After this has been done, the issue can also be closed. So - no need to change anything in Issue Tracker. André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] Who can closes an issue[ was: Fwd: [l10n-dev] Spanish version : issue in OLH
Hi, Nguyen Vu Hung schrieb: Does it working with existing issues? This is one of my issue. http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=95569 I am logging as vuhung but I cannot change the status of the issue. Maybe something special with the status Started. I set the issue to fixe - can you test, if you are able to close it now? Thanks, André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [dev] why ist the size of user dictionaries limited to 2000 entries
Hi Christoph, Christoph Lutz schrieb: we want to import our word dictionaries into OOo. The test-macro below shows that user dictionaries in OOo seem to be limited to 2000 entries. Yes, Are other types of dictionaries (e.g. system wide dictionaries) also restricted to 2000 entries? regular hunspell dictionaries are not limited to this. Can you dump the Word dictionaries to a simple ascii wordlist? If you like, you can send this to me and I'll wrap it in an extension. The structure should be easy to understand. Or .. reading your macro code, it should be enough to place a test.aff file beside your test.dic. The test.aff file needs only to define the correct encodingforyour dictionary. Put this in a dicitonary extension and deploy this to all users. André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] buildbot builds vs standard builds
Hi Jörg, Jörg Jahnke schrieb: Is this really the answer to Thorstens older question? I guess not. I was just looking at one tree in the wood. Unfortunately this tree is in my way so that I cannot even enter the wood. And also to Mechtilde's initial question, which Stephan posted here, it is not the answer because there the issue of differences in functionality was raised. With a failed build you get no functionality at all. Correct :) So it is a precondition, that buildbots are as reiable as other build environments. From the perspective of a QA member, who wants to create a build that he can test, a failed build certainly is more than annoying. In a previous mail Gregor asked for the different tasks BuildBots were meant to work on. IMO the focus up to now was more on testing the builds for many different platforms and early find and fix build problems for these platforms. They currently perhaps have more a developer focus and not a QA focus. So that you stumble over a build problem on a BuildBot does not mean that the BuildBot system is broken, it might as well mean that the current BuildBots are more useful for developers than for QA means. Yes - and I think, this was mor the intention of Mechtilde: we need to make people aware, that community QA people really like to do more testing (without bugging developers or Hamburg RE for testbuilds). With the current setup this is very hard to achieve. But indeed we should think about adding that QA focus and installing some BuildBots that are as close as possible to the Hamburg RE environment where the milestone builds take place, so that the BuildBots can create builds with a higher reliabiliy. There are inded two ways to get a better match of the builds: - Buildbots use the same build environment as Hamburg RE - Hamburg RE uses the same build environment as the rest o the community (including Buildbots) IMO that would be very useful. We should ensure that we not spend time and resources into adding BuildBots with an environment close to the Hamburg RE one and later find out that all was wasted because the real problems were e.g. different Windows Managers of the test machines or whatever. The differncens in the build environment cause some of the problems - the window manager indeed cause other problems, as the configure settings does, as the CPU at the testmachine does, as the mouse driver on the test machine does ... This thing is very complex - and is will be a complex task to analyze all this. So we should lower the complexity by reducing known differences. If we then get quite good results, we could start and raise complexity again and see, what differences in build and testing environment we can cope with. Best, André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] buildbot builds vs standard builds
Hi, Thorsten Ziehm schrieb: *No* TestBots are *not* the solution for getting reliable builds. TestBots are the solution for running automated tests on reliable builds. For 'testing' you can take every build you want. I haven't seen builds of all build bots, but you can use that versions for testing - checking Translation, checking general bug fixed, checking features, writing test case specifications, checking features with test case specifications etc. There aren't so many differences in the builds that it isn't possible to check that on the current build bots. But if you want to check a build with VCLTestTool you can run into a handful differences in test results. This has to be avoided, I think. Or do you think builds from BuildBots aren't useful in general? Ok - the discussion started, because Mechtilde told Stephan Bergman that there are problems with builds from the buildbots, if we want to do CWS testing on such builds. The reason to bring this up was because community members like to help more with CWS testing and approval. Instead of discussing how to resolve the problems and make it easier for community members to help with the QA process we have been: - asked to provide a more deatieled list of differences in test results - debating why we need more reliable builds from buildbots at all - seem to be confused, what buildbots are for at all - still are asked, if there are problems with builds from buildbots. The only thing I can do at the moment is to shake my head and stop this discussion. André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Re: buildbot builds vs standard builds
Hi, Mechtilde schrieb: And today evening I started the buildbot ubuntu-7.10 to create a build OOO310_m3 to create a list of diferences between the HH-build and the build from the build bot. The first difference I found was that it was impossible to get a build. Nice one :) So I am a really happy person who owns a m1 build from this bot. (You may remember that the bot needed a fix - the build failed for the first time as well.) But yes ... there are no problems with testing builds from build bots. I think, we should just go on as we do now. André PS.: Who has some sarcasm-Tags left, might place them anywhere in this mail. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] amount of stopper / regressions for 3.1 release
Hi again, Andre Schnabel schrieb: BTW, since there was the request for an automatic solution: anybody knows what became of the mirrorbrain offering (on d...@tools IIRC)? Yes .. I'm in contact with Christoph Noack on this, to provide at least a test environment. Sorry, I mixed up the tools. You may ask Florian Effenberger, what the status is. André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] amount of stopper / regressions for 3.1 release
Hi Ingrid, Ingrid Halama schrieb: Mathias Bauer wrote: The problem is that the usual test runs obviously don't find the bugs That is not obvious to me. Too often the mandatory tests haven't been run. And if tests do not find an important problem, hey then the tests should be improved. See my post at d...@qa ( http://qa.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=devmsgNo=11964 ). Our toolset for automated tests even reports all ok if the testttool correctly identified a stopper bug. Many other bugs cannot be found by the testtool (e.g. visual problems like issue 99662 ). I think, the benefits of automated testing are overstimated (or the costs are underestimated). that now bite us, most of them have been found by users or testers *working* with the program. Adding more CWS test runs and so shortening the time for real-life testing will not help us but make things worse. I don't agree. Preventing the integration of bugs earlier in the production phase especially before the integration into the master trunk would give us much more freedom. Now we always need to react on show stoppers and react and react and uh then the release time line is on risk. All that, because the bugs are already in the product. If you instead detect the bugs before they are integrated into the product you can keep cool, refuse the bad CWS and thus not the release is on risk but only the single bad CWS. The point is *if* you detect the bugs in the CWS. At the moment we obviuosly do not identify enough critical issues while CWS testing (even if the mandatory tests are done). I am missing a stimulation for good behaviour in this plans. There are people who do the feature design, who do the developing work, who do the testing, who create the automatic test, who do the documetnation and after all these people have done their work and lets assume they have done it good and without show stoppers, after all this there comes someone else and says, oh no, I do not think that I want to have this for this release, there are other things that I want to have more and in the sum I guess that it might be to much for the next release? Where is the stimulation for good behaviour here? The problem is, that we first need to prove that good behaviour is really helpfull and prevents critical bugs in the master. I'm all for promoting good behaviour - and in most cases I would like to see more people who follow the rules (like publishing specs correctly at the specs website). But we must be allowed to review our processes and identify the parts that are not so helpfull. There is none, instead it is a stimulation to push in the changes quickly into the product and skip careful testing. If this is some stimulation: thanks for all the chart specs that are correctly linked at the specs website. These are very helpfull to speed up testing, get an idea about the new functionality and in many cases arethe only resource to get our translations correct. André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Get list of top votes on QA site?
HI, Bill Stewart schrieb: Hello all, I am looking for a way to list the issues with the largest number of votes on the QA site (qa.openoffice.org). I tried going to: qa.openoffice.org - Miscellaneous link - Issue Votes link The list at this location (http://qa.openoffice.org/iz_votes.html) has not been updated since 2006-02-19, and the spreadsheet template it mentions (issuevotes.ots) doesn't seem to have a way to let me list the issues with the largest number of votes. The link that is used by the spreadsheet is (very long:) http://www.openoffice.org/issues/buglist.cgi?Submit+query=Submit+queryissue_status=UNCONFIRMEDissue_status=NEWissue_status=STARTEDissue_status=REOPENEDvotes=50cmdtype=doitorder=issues.votes%20desc%2C%20issues.priority interestinng - the spreadsheet crashes with OOo 3.1 :( Background: I, along with many others, are trying to get issue 96594 implemented ASAP (i.e., undo the bad decision made in issue 91086). As I write this, we have gathered 71 votes so far, and I want to know whether 96594 has a good chance of getting fixed in the next release. If an issue is going to be fixed does not only depend on votes. So .. no matter if you put more votes on it unless you have very good arguments, this will not raise the chances for a fix. André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Get list of top votes on QA site?
Hi Niklas, Niklas Nebel schrieb: On 03/25/09 11:47, Niklas Nebel wrote: Oh, that's quite bad. Thanks for noticing it. As soon as Issue Tracker works again, I will submit an issue and try to get it into 3.1. http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=100538 Thanks! I did not have the time to submit the issue this morning. André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
[dev] Re: [ux-discuss] Re: Offering file associations when installing - or not?
Hi, (taking d...@ooo in cc - mybe someone there can give mor input). Bill Stewart schrieb: André Schnabel wrote: In theory setting the property REGISTER_ALL_MSO_TYPES to 1 should do this. I tested with Microsoft Office 2003 and OOo 3.0.1, and it works; thanks for the tip. However, the single property seems to be an all or nothing approach. Perhaps a set of properties for the different MS Office file types; e.g: REGISTER_DOC for .do? REGISTER_DOCXML for .do?m, .do?x REGISTER_XLS for .xl? REGISTER_XLSXML for .xlsb, .xl?m, .xl?x REGISTER_PPT for .p?t, .pps REGISTER_PPTXML for .p?tm, .p?tx ...or something similar. I believe this would be necessary if the OOo team decides to reinstate the dialog in the installer. It's possible (and in exactly the way you guess). The only thing you need to do is to set the property REGISTER_NO_MSO_TYPES=1 and then you can set REGISTER_DOC=1 REGISTER_DOCX=1 ... The only documentation for this I know is in German: http://www.ooowiki.de/InstallationUnterWindows?#WindowsInstaller Maybe someone else can tell, where this is documented at the OOo website. André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
[dev] Preparing the council elections - verify project lead lists
Hi, we (the council members) are preparing for the next (and overdue) council elections. According to our current charter [1], we have defined electorates (the people who are going to vote on the candidates). As we are going to elect Product Development Representatives and Lang Representatives, the constituencies are defined as the accepted and incubator and native lang and l10n projectleads (including co-leads and category leads). To have the correct people voting, I would ask you to verify our current lists of project leads: - http://projects.openoffice.org/accepted.html - http://projects.openoffice.org/incubator.html - http://projects.openoffice.org/native-lang.html please send information about false or missing information directly to me by the end of next week. Please also verify the email-adresses (as this will be used to verify the vote). This is not a formal announcement of the elections yet ;) This will follow in a couple of days. Thanks, André [1]: http://council.openoffice.org/councilcharter12.html - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
[dev] Preparing the council elections - looking for observers
Hi, you may have noticed that we are are going to prepare the upcoming council elections. (See [1] for some rough notes.) According to our election process proposal [2] the election will be lead by a supervisor who is assisted by two observers. To spread the work we are looking for people who like to act as observer. The main duty would be to keep track of the election process, verify that the elections are correct and fair - and after all verify the vote calculation and approve the result. As we are going to have three seats elected, we may have more than just two observers. If you are willing to help, please drop a mail until end of the week. Best, Andre [1] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Elections/200904 [2] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Items/Election_Process_Proposal - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
[dev] Re: [native-lang] Preparing the council elections - looking for observers
Hi, something I forgot: Although there are no formal restrictions to this role, you should not apply as observer, if you are going to candidate for one of the council seats (just to prevent conflict of interests). André André Schnabel schrieb: Hi, you may have noticed that we are are going to prepare the upcoming council elections. (See [1] for some rough notes.) According to our election process proposal [2] the election will be lead by a supervisor who is assisted by two observers. To spread the work we are looking for people who like to act as observer. The main duty would be to keep track of the election process, verify that the elections are correct and fair - and after all verify the vote calculation and approve the result. As we are going to have three seats elected, we may have more than just two observers. If you are willing to help, please drop a mail until end of the week. Best, Andre [1] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Elections/200904 [2] http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council/Items/Election_Process_Proposal - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@native-lang.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@native-lang.openoffice.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Import of Office-Dokuments, converting to PDF
Hi Robert, Robert Einsle schrieb: The question is: May we approach problematic documents to the Open Office team or as possible to a german developer so that the import filter of ascertained document types (in this case .ppt and .doc) can be improved? But we have to mention that these documents are very confidental and can not be unfolded. Well ... in general itis possible to forward such documents to interested developers (assuming, that some developer is interesed and raises hand). The better way might be to look for some service contract with one of our contributors (might be Sun, Novell, soe individual developers). This would guarantee, that your documents are treated as confidential and your issues get fixed. Best, André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Re: [OOoCon 2009] OOo4Kids and Education Project : presentations canceled
Hi, Thorsten Behrens schrieb: Hi Andre, well, I guess matters are a bit more complicated here. From past years, it was quite customary to pay travel accomodation for volunteer contributors; in fact the conference submission site mentioned as much. So we seem to have different memories, what was customary. As I remember, last years conference was the first one to have a very generous budget for travel accomodation. This was explicitly mentioned by the main sponsor when the application was sent in. The years before, the reimbursements were much lower and always bound to active community members who really need the reimbursements. But my memory might fail, as I never got full reimbursements for any of the conferences I attended. Most of the time I payed the full costs myself. (Maybe this makes me one of the evil stupid, who find OOo Conferences interesting enough to go there on their own risk and costs :) ). In preparation of the conference, you often complained, that the education project did not get enough attention. So - now the project got attention, the project lead got a session, people maybe prepared to have some chats with the education lead ... and now exactly this project lead find, ha cannot attent, because he was to late with looking for imburesements? I guess the ones not being timely in this case were the people deciding/announcing on the reimbursements. Travel/accomodation usually gets noticeable more expensive even 6 weeks before ... Agreed - final rules for reimbursements were given very late. But this does not mean, that you can expect to get reimbursements, as long as no one told something different. Still I think, it is only honest to say I'll join the conference only if I get the reimbursements. This would help to mak decisions and put some pressure on the conference team. There is indeed another problem for the Conference Team: OOoCon never had any budget assigned form the OOo project. We used to plan the Conferences as self-sustaining (means every cost related to the conference needs to be backed by dedicated sponsoring). You might imagine, that it was harder to find sponsors this year than any other before. Budgeting is actually a task of the council - so anybody who is not fine with this, should raise this to the council. Or - much better - apply for a council seat. You'll get the next chance some weeks after the Conference ;) Best, André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
Re: [dev] Re: [council-discuss] election machinery (was Re: [council-discuss] Call for Nominations for Community Council Election)
Hi Eric, eric b schrieb: Hi Andre, Le 31 oct. 09 à 10:19, André Schnabel a écrit : I think what will be retained is not what really happened, and I think this is not respecftull for Alexandro and me, and worse, does not provide a good image ot your 'elections process'. I don't get your point - really. Interested people already know the story, You always disagree with my point of view, I know, but that's not the point. I surely do not *always* disagree to your point of view. I fact I even often agreed and tried present your point to other people. The point is the process must respect people, and my feeling is, this is not the case. Sentences like you just wrote show deepest disrespect for other people (me in this case). But you are right to talk about a story, when I see how many time it took to organize these elections :-) Everybody is free to organize the elections - as long as she will follow the rules. The council is responsible to define the rules and make sure the rules are followed. This does not mean that council members need to do all the administrative tasks. Everybody is free to ask, if he can take this tasks. (I never saw anybody doing this - and the call for observers I once did, was only answered by two non-council-members.) Ok, I can accept thatnotmany peoplehave the timeto organizeand run elections. Anyway - it's nice to see, that you have the time to point to problems in the process (if your person is affected). André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
[dev] Re: [l10n-dev] Re: [dev] Spanish NL Community requests for funding help on acquiring a local build box
Hi, not exactly on topic, but ... Santiago Bosio schrieb: As I said, we have been doing our own builds, patching the translations with the latest snapshot from Pootle, converted to OOo SDF format using po2oo, and gsichecking the resulting file. All of it can be done automatically, but I see two problems to solve for the as early as possible scenario: 2. Weekly devel builds should be done with the complete set of language packs, and not only a few of them as it is done currently (I think they are FR, DE, IT, JA, pt-BR, etc.) as it will give us the opportunity to check our advance (provided that we have early the strings to translate on Pootle as I said before). Unfortunately even the named languages have no chance to check their translations in an early stage. The language packs do *not* contain current translations. We have the same workflow as all other pootle based localizations: we see the finalization result in the product only after cws integration. The langpacks are only helpful to attract more people for general testing - but are a pain if someone is going to test localization. Regards, André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
[dev] Re: [ux-discuss] OpenOffice.org Product Development
Hi Andreas, * first a disclaimer: my comments represent only my own views about the project - I'm not speaking for anybody else (esp. not for Torsten) Addition to the disclaimer: I have been a long-term contributor to the project but have never really contributed code (ok a ~10 LOC patch). I've been deeply involved in community-QA andam now in l10n. For those reasons I was elected to the council - at this time as one of the 5 Project Leads, but surely not the One Project Lead or Co-Lead who is a programmer not working for Sun. (Just quoting the old Council Charter) SOmore or less I've been a Product development representative. ... Andreas Bartel schrieb: ... However, I am worried not because I wouldn't know how much you love the project, I really do. Ironically, that is exactly the issue I am worried about. In my understanding, for this position you would need to love the product more than the project. Surely not! The thing we (you) are going to elect is the *Community* council - and the project *is* the community. So althoug,there are people within the council who should rather focus product development *each* member should love the Community and the project. Any member who favours product over community should rather be elected to an I'll do it my way Council (or become a product manager in one of our sponsoring companies). And definitely more than code ;-) From my end-user driven perspective, the project exists for the love of the product, and the Product Development Representatives should coordinate the cooperative efforts of all OpenOffice.org projects towards one vision. A vision of OpenOffice.org as a product that brings true value to our project by providing true value to our users. Ultemately, it's the outcome that matters. Correct :) We need all our different flavours of community members with all the activities that need to be done to deliver a good product. But once you did understand this (that we need *all* the components) it does not really matter, if you prefere one above the other. If you reallyunderstood,you will make compromises. But (and once again:I am not a code hacker at OOo) there is one thingto consider: without UX, QA, l10n or marketing you will deliver a product of very poor quality that hardly anybody would like to use. But without code, there will be no product (and no users) at all. The very hard job for a product developer is to teach code hackers, that just a product is not enough ;) If I recall it correctly, you consider our current processes for functional quality (QA) and design quality (UX) as unnecessary impediments posed by a bureaucratic instance to maintain its influence on the project. I mean, at least to me, it's big gap in here that matters a lot for the position you are applying. I did not attend this discussion, but I don't know, why there is a gap. There is a difference between the necessity to have processes for functional and design quality and the statement, that our *current processes* are unnecessary (or not fitting the project's needs). IMO,our current process have many flaws - that are not relevant, if you work in a company - but become disturbing, if you work in a community environment. E.g. changing visual identity or introducing new features in a bugfix release would be almost impossible for a community member outside the main sponsoring company. But if you are within, you can just do (because the defined processes can be fully handeled within the company). kind regards, André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.org
