Re: [OSM-dev] Legal question about attribution text on smartphone

[Wesley Duffee-Braun]

Hi all,

My interpretation (IANAL) is that, based on the following (from
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Legal_FAQ)


   - For a *browsable electronic map* (e.g. embedded in a web page or
   mobile phone application), the credit should appear in the corner of the
   map, as commonly seen with map APIs/libraries such as Google Maps.


there should be the text ""© OpenStreetMap contributors" and a link to the
www.openstreetmap.org/copyright or www.opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl
pages. The FAQ says "contributors" can be omitted if need be for space.

On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 9:38 AM, Stadin, Benjamin <
benjamin.sta...@heidelberg-mobil.com> wrote:

> Simon, thanks but I'll also want to hear another feedback with somehwat
> more positive tone.
>
> But since you mention Mapbox: They have their own logo in the lower left +
> a small info (i) button on the lower right. Tapping that (i) open a action
> sheet with OSM attribution and link. I think it's default, but not sure.
>
> My interpretation about the OSM attribution requirements are that *any*
> form of link on size constrained devices is ok. I do not need a legal
> counsel, but ask (also in the legal-osm mailing list) about clarification
> if this assumption is correct.
>
> If you find this too silly, then let someone else respond who can clarify
> about what OSM attribution requires and if my assumption is right or not.
> And who may have the right to adjust such statement on the OSM legal site
> where this is not exactly clear. It really isn't.
>
> Whatever the legal requirements are - we'll fulfill them. As it stands the
> requirements aren't clear in this regard.
>

I think the legal requirements are likely left vague on the FAQ so each
developer can adapt/interpret them to their particular UI/view/etc. The
only "must" I've found is "You must make it clear that the data is
available under the Open Database Licence. This can be achieved by
providing a "License" or "Terms" link which links to
www.openstreetmap.org/copyright or www.opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl."
(from the OSM Foundation's Legal page -
http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License - but the page continues with
more on some options of *where* to put that attribution.

I second Simon's point - that getting legal counsel's input is the surest
way to be covered. A mailing list can give input and context on what others
have done, but providing your counsel with the OSM and OSMF's Legal pages
should give them clarity on what is required.

Thanks,
Wesley


>
> Cheers
> Ben
>
> Von meinem iPad gesendet
>
> Am 23.04.2017 um 16:18 schrieb Simon Poole :
>
> I hope you realize just how patently silly that post was.
>
> But just in case you don't: you get legal advice from the counsel that you
> have engaged (and typically they will want money for that), you do not get
> it from a public developers mailing list (it is however the right place to
> get personal opinions on app design). Not only are there only a small
> number of people qualified to do so on the list, there are many legal
> (which you should know as a German company), liability and economic reasons
> why you will not get anything useful here.
>
> You need to sit down with your counsel and go through your options and the
> associated risks and then decide what works best. Dealing with customers
> using your SDK and getting them to attribute the data sources correctly is
> going to be pain, just ask mapbox.
>
> Simon
>
> Am 23.04.2017 um 14:49 schrieb Stadin, Benjamin:
>
> I need a legal advice, not a personal opinion about app design. That we
> need to show our own logo –we didn’t show it before but showed the OSM
> attribution text- has a solid legal background, which I won’t go into
> detail in a public mailing list. That we want to show only one logo on
> smartphones really has its reason also. We can show both on the iPad and
> Android tablets. And in our own apps, where we can control content and UI,
> we credit OSM at multiple places (legal or about page, as well as on the
> map view itself).
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Ben
>
>
>
>
>
> *Von: *Simon Poole  
> *Datum: *Sonntag, 23. April 2017 um 13:41
> *An: *"dev@openstreetmap.org" 
>  
> *Betreff: *Re: [OSM-dev] Legal question about attribution text on
> smartphone
>
>
>
> IMHO mobile devs tend to substantially exaggerate the screen real estate
> scarcity. Two to three sources as text lines is clearly doable, and you
> don't really need to have separate links on the main screen itself, just
> show a common attribution screen.
>
> And: -you- control how much you want to show your logo, it is -not- a
> third party legal requirement, no reason you can't simply live with some
> text if you believe there is not enough space.
>
> Simon
>
>
>
> Am 23.04.2017 um 00:26 schrieb Stadin, Benjamin:
>
> It’s not our app, but this is an (indoor) map SDK which can be integrated
> into 

Re: [OSM-dev] Legal question about attribution text on smartphone

[Stadin, Benjamin]

Simon, thanks but I'll also want to hear another feedback with somehwat more 
positive tone.

But since you mention Mapbox: They have their own logo in the lower left + a 
small info (i) button on the lower right. Tapping that (i) open a action sheet 
with OSM attribution and link. I think it's default, but not sure.

My interpretation about the OSM attribution requirements are that *any* form of 
link on size constrained devices is ok. I do not need a legal counsel, but ask 
(also in the legal-osm mailing list) about clarification if this assumption is 
correct.

If you find this too silly, then let someone else respond who can clarify about 
what OSM attribution requires and if my assumption is right or not. And who may 
have the right to adjust such statement on the OSM legal site where this is not 
exactly clear. It really isn't.

Whatever the legal requirements are - we'll fulfill them. As it stands the 
requirements aren't clear in this regard.

Cheers
Ben

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 23.04.2017 um 16:18 schrieb Simon Poole 
>:

I hope you realize just how patently silly that post was.

But just in case you don't: you get legal advice from the counsel that you have 
engaged (and typically they will want money for that), you do not get it from a 
public developers mailing list (it is however the right place to get personal 
opinions on app design). Not only are there only a small number of people 
qualified to do so on the list, there are many legal (which you should know as 
a German company), liability and economic reasons why you will not get anything 
useful here.

You need to sit down with your counsel and go through your options and the 
associated risks and then decide what works best. Dealing with customers using 
your SDK and getting them to attribute the data sources correctly is going to 
be pain, just ask mapbox.

Simon

Am 23.04.2017 um 14:49 schrieb Stadin, Benjamin:
I need a legal advice, not a personal opinion about app design. That we need to 
show our own logo –we didn’t show it before but showed the OSM attribution 
text- has a solid legal background, which I won’t go into detail in a public 
mailing list. That we want to show only one logo on smartphones really has its 
reason also. We can show both on the iPad and Android tablets. And in our own 
apps, where we can control content and UI, we credit OSM at multiple places 
(legal or about page, as well as on the map view itself).

Cheers
Ben


Von: Simon Poole 
Datum: Sonntag, 23. April 2017 um 13:41
An: "dev@openstreetmap.org" 

Betreff: Re: [OSM-dev] Legal question about attribution text on smartphone


IMHO mobile devs tend to substantially exaggerate the screen real estate 
scarcity. Two to three sources as text lines is clearly doable, and you don't 
really need to have separate links on the main screen itself, just show a 
common attribution screen.

And: -you- control how much you want to show your logo, it is -not- a third 
party legal requirement, no reason you can't simply live with some text if you 
believe there is not enough space.

Simon

Am 23.04.2017 um 00:26 schrieb Stadin, Benjamin:
It’s not our app, but this is an (indoor) map SDK which can be integrated into 
other native iOS and Android apps. A list (UIActionSheet on iOS) appears when 
our logo is tapped, showing multiple links (including a link to 
www.openstreetmap.org/copyright). 
Having our logo visible is a legal requirement also, and it wouldn’t be 
convenient to place the list with multiple legal links not associated to OSM 
behind the OSM attribution logo or text.

If we need to show two logos it would waste space for navigation controls and 
building / floor selection UI elements.

Since the map view will be used in other apps, we cannot control what is shown 
on the splash screen. We can place it there for our own apps, and ask customers 
of our SDK to place it there. But from experience this is often forgotten, and 
I’d rather prefer a permanent solution and give credit to OSM one way or 
another on the map view.

Cheers
Ben


Von: Martin Koppenhoefer 
Datum: Freitag, 21. April 2017 um 12:49
An: Rory McCann 
Cc: "dev@openstreetmap.org" 
, 
"legal-t...@openstreetmap.org" 

Betreff: Re: [OSM-dev] Legal question about attribution text on smartphone



sent from a phone

On 21. Apr 2017, at 12:10, Rory McCann 
> wrote:
So I dunno? Maybe? There could be ways around it if you don't want to include 
it on every map page. 

Re: [OSM-dev] Legal question about attribution text on smartphone

[Simon Poole]

I hope you realize just how patently silly that post was.

But just in case you don't: you get legal advice from the counsel that
you have engaged (and typically they will want money for that), you do
not get it from a public developers mailing list (it is however the
right place to get personal opinions on app design). Not only are there
only a small number of people qualified to do so on the list, there are
many legal (which you should know as a German company), liability and
economic reasons why you will not get anything useful here.

You need to sit down with your counsel and go through your options and
the associated risks and then decide what works best. Dealing with
customers using your SDK and getting them to attribute the data sources
correctly is going to be pain, just ask mapbox.

Simon

Am 23.04.2017 um 14:49 schrieb Stadin, Benjamin:
>
> I need a legal advice, not a personal opinion about app design. That
> we need to show our own logo –we didn’t show it before but showed the
> OSM attribution text- has a solid legal background, which I won’t go
> into detail in a public mailing list. That we want to show only one
> logo on smartphones really has its reason also. We can show both on
> the iPad and Android tablets. And in our own apps, where we can
> control content and UI, we credit OSM at multiple places (legal or
> about page, as well as on the map view itself).
>
>  
>
> Cheers
>
> Ben
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *Von: *Simon Poole 
> *Datum: *Sonntag, 23. April 2017 um 13:41
> *An: *"dev@openstreetmap.org" 
> *Betreff: *Re: [OSM-dev] Legal question about attribution text on
> smartphone
>
>  
>
> IMHO mobile devs tend to substantially exaggerate the screen real
> estate scarcity. Two to three sources as text lines is clearly doable,
> and you don't really need to have separate links on the main screen
> itself, just show a common attribution screen.
>
> And: -you- control how much you want to show your logo, it is -not- a
> third party legal requirement, no reason you can't simply live with
> some text if you believe there is not enough space.
>
> Simon
>
>  
>
> Am 23.04.2017 um 00:26 schrieb Stadin, Benjamin:
>
> It’s not our app, but this is an (indoor) map SDK which can be
> integrated into other native iOS and Android apps. A list
> (UIActionSheet on iOS) appears when our logo is tapped, showing
> multiple links (including a link to
> www.openstreetmap.org/copyright
> ). Having our logo visible
> is a legal requirement also, and it wouldn’t be convenient to
> place the list with multiple legal links not associated to OSM
> behind the OSM attribution logo or text.
>
>  
>
> If we need to show two logos it would waste space for navigation
> controls and building / floor selection UI elements.
>
>  
>
> Since the map view will be used in other apps, we cannot control
> what is shown on the splash screen. We can place it there for our
> own apps, and ask customers of our SDK to place it there. But from
> experience this is often forgotten, and I’d rather prefer a
> permanent solution and give credit to OSM one way or another on
> the map view.
>
>  
>
> Cheers
>
> Ben
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *Von: *Martin Koppenhoefer 
> 
> *Datum: *Freitag, 21. April 2017 um 12:49
> *An: *Rory McCann  
> *Cc: *"dev@openstreetmap.org" 
>  ,
> "legal-t...@openstreetmap.org"
> 
>  
> *Betreff: *Re: [OSM-dev] Legal question about attribution text on
> smartphone
>
>  
>
>
>
> sent from a phone
>
>
> On 21. Apr 2017, at 12:10, Rory McCann  > wrote:
>
> So I dunno? Maybe? There could be ways around it if you don't
> want to include it on every map page. Does your app have a
> loading/spash screen? Including an attribution there, which is
> shown every time the app is started might meet the requirements.
>
>  
>
>  
>
> have you seen this page?
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Legal_FAQ
>
>  
>
> generally, if there is enough space for your logo, there should
> also be for osm (on pages showing maps). If there's space for just
> one attribution, why not use it to attribute osm? The user will
> more likely be aware who you are (as he's using your app) than he
> will be that your map data comes from osm, so prioritizing OSM
> attribution seems to make sense 
>
>  
>
>  
>
> cheers,
>
> Martin 
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> dev 

Re: [OSM-dev] Legal question about attribution text on smartphone

[Stadin, Benjamin]

I need a legal advice, not a personal opinion about app design. That we need to 
show our own logo –we didn’t show it before but showed the OSM attribution 
text- has a solid legal background, which I won’t go into detail in a public 
mailing list. That we want to show only one logo on smartphones really has its 
reason also. We can show both on the iPad and Android tablets. And in our own 
apps, where we can control content and UI, we credit OSM at multiple places 
(legal or about page, as well as on the map view itself).

Cheers
Ben


Von: Simon Poole 
Datum: Sonntag, 23. April 2017 um 13:41
An: "dev@openstreetmap.org" 
Betreff: Re: [OSM-dev] Legal question about attribution text on smartphone


IMHO mobile devs tend to substantially exaggerate the screen real estate 
scarcity. Two to three sources as text lines is clearly doable, and you don't 
really need to have separate links on the main screen itself, just show a 
common attribution screen.

And: -you- control how much you want to show your logo, it is -not- a third 
party legal requirement, no reason you can't simply live with some text if you 
believe there is not enough space.

Simon

Am 23.04.2017 um 00:26 schrieb Stadin, Benjamin:
It’s not our app, but this is an (indoor) map SDK which can be integrated into 
other native iOS and Android apps. A list (UIActionSheet on iOS) appears when 
our logo is tapped, showing multiple links (including a link to 
www.openstreetmap.org/copyright). 
Having our logo visible is a legal requirement also, and it wouldn’t be 
convenient to place the list with multiple legal links not associated to OSM 
behind the OSM attribution logo or text.

If we need to show two logos it would waste space for navigation controls and 
building / floor selection UI elements.

Since the map view will be used in other apps, we cannot control what is shown 
on the splash screen. We can place it there for our own apps, and ask customers 
of our SDK to place it there. But from experience this is often forgotten, and 
I’d rather prefer a permanent solution and give credit to OSM one way or 
another on the map view.

Cheers
Ben


Von: Martin Koppenhoefer 
Datum: Freitag, 21. April 2017 um 12:49
An: Rory McCann 
Cc: "dev@openstreetmap.org" 
, 
"legal-t...@openstreetmap.org" 

Betreff: Re: [OSM-dev] Legal question about attribution text on smartphone



sent from a phone

On 21. Apr 2017, at 12:10, Rory McCann 
> wrote:
So I dunno? Maybe? There could be ways around it if you don't want to include 
it on every map page. Does your app have a loading/spash screen? Including an 
attribution there, which is shown every time the app is started might meet the 
requirements.


have you seen this page?
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Legal_FAQ

generally, if there is enough space for your logo, there should also be for osm 
(on pages showing maps). If there's space for just one attribution, why not use 
it to attribute osm? The user will more likely be aware who you are (as he's 
using your app) than he will be that your map data comes from osm, so 
prioritizing OSM attribution seems to make sense


cheers,
Martin




___

dev mailing list

dev@openstreetmap.org

https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev


___
dev mailing list
dev@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev

Re: [OSM-dev] Legal question about attribution text on smartphone

[Simon Poole]

IMHO mobile devs tend to substantially exaggerate the screen real estate
scarcity. Two to three sources as text lines is clearly doable, and you
don't really need to have separate links on the main screen itself, just
show a common attribution screen.

And: -you- control how much you want to show your logo, it is -not- a
third party legal requirement, no reason you can't simply live with some
text if you believe there is not enough space.

Simon


Am 23.04.2017 um 00:26 schrieb Stadin, Benjamin:
>
> It’s not our app, but this is an (indoor) map SDK which can be
> integrated into other native iOS and Android apps. A list
> (UIActionSheet on iOS) appears when our logo is tapped, showing
> multiple links (including a link to www.openstreetmap.org/copyright
> ). Having our logo visible is
> a legal requirement also, and it wouldn’t be convenient to place the
> list with multiple legal links not associated to OSM behind the OSM
> attribution logo or text.
>
>  
>
> If we need to show two logos it would waste space for navigation
> controls and building / floor selection UI elements.
>
>  
>
> Since the map view will be used in other apps, we cannot control what
> is shown on the splash screen. We can place it there for our own apps,
> and ask customers of our SDK to place it there. But from experience
> this is often forgotten, and I’d rather prefer a permanent solution
> and give credit to OSM one way or another on the map view.
>
>  
>
> Cheers
>
> Ben
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *Von: *Martin Koppenhoefer 
> *Datum: *Freitag, 21. April 2017 um 12:49
> *An: *Rory McCann 
> *Cc: *"dev@openstreetmap.org" ,
> "legal-t...@openstreetmap.org" 
> *Betreff: *Re: [OSM-dev] Legal question about attribution text on
> smartphone
>
>  
>
>
>
> sent from a phone
>
>
> On 21. Apr 2017, at 12:10, Rory McCann  > wrote:
>
> So I dunno? Maybe? There could be ways around it if you don't want
> to include it on every map page. Does your app have a
> loading/spash screen? Including an attribution there, which is
> shown every time the app is started might meet the requirements.
>
>  
>
>  
>
> have you seen this page?
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Legal_FAQ
>
>  
>
> generally, if there is enough space for your logo, there should also
> be for osm (on pages showing maps). If there's space for just one
> attribution, why not use it to attribute osm? The user will more
> likely be aware who you are (as he's using your app) than he will be
> that your map data comes from osm, so prioritizing OSM attribution
> seems to make sense 
>
>  
>
>  
>
> cheers,
>
> Martin 
>
>
>
> ___
> dev mailing list
> dev@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
dev mailing list
dev@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev