Re: [OSM-dev] Haiti need: GetLatLon for OpenStreetMap
Hi Mikel, CloudMade's Web Maps API makes this pretty easy: http://developers.cloudmade.com/projects/web-maps-lite/examples/basic-events Should be v. quick to centre the map on Haiti or add geocoding to search from the location. -- Nick On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Mikel Maron mikel_ma...@yahoo.com wrote: Ushahidi, and others, are geocoding reports via OpenStreetMap. We want this to be as easy and accurate for them as possible. GetLatLon (http://www.getlatlon.com/) is a nice little site to do this, but uses Google Maps. Would someone be able to clone the site to use OSM, centered on Haiti? Thanks Mikel == Mikel Maron == http://mapkibera.org/ +254 (0) 724899738 mi...@osmfoundation.org ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev -- -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Tagwatch Editor Counts
Hi Guys, Wondered if there had been any update on these numbers from the latest planet? -- Nick On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 9:42 AM, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, 2009/12/5 Nick Black nickbla...@gmail.com: Interesting data Matt. Getting more users through the one month zone would have a big impact on OSM. If anyone's interested, Mapzen POI Collecter has had 1,108 downloads since it launched, which accounts for roughly 0.6% of the OSM user base. I would guess that 10% - 20% of the OSM user base have iPhones. For editor developers, it would be really useful to know what proportion of the OSM user base have what kind of mobile devices and more importantly what their intentions are for their next device. The Mapzen tools are aimed at mappers who are not well served by current tools. If I knew that, for example, 10%-20% of OSMers who weren't already using Vespucci were intended to buy Android devices in the next few months, we would definitely release an Android version of Mapzen POI Collector. On the other hand, if the single biggest base of OSM users have iPhones, a Mapzen address adding tool is more likely. My guess is Android and webOS (the Palm's latest thing) are going to be getting a lot of traction in near future so it's always good to make sure your program works there. webOS especially because it's new and there aren't so many apps for it yet. My personal opinion is that it's a great pity that the fourth editor in number of users is a closed-source one, just shows that people care little about their freedom even in a project like this. Maybe they're tricked into assuming that every piece of software that has to do with OSM is free as in freedom, although the Download ... for free button on Mapzen's website gives it away immediately. Cheers -- -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] , instead of . in cloudmade routing
Hi there bernhard - including a , with the lang=de parameter was a bug. Its now been corrected and all languages return a . as the decimal separator. -- Nick n...@cloudmade.com On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:08 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, bernhard wrote: Localization extrem: http://routes.cloudmade.com/BC9A493B41014CAABB98F0471D759707/api/0.3/47.25976,9.58423,47.26117,9.59882/car/shortest.gpx?units=mileslang=de If the lang of the gpx file is german the decimal indicator is a , instead a .. Cloudmade have an issue tracker where you can report issues with their services. The routing issue tracker is here: http://developers.cloudmade.com/projects/routing-http-api/issues?set_filter=1tracker_id=14 Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Tagwatch Editor Counts
Interesting data Matt. Getting more users through the one month zone would have a big impact on OSM. If anyone's interested, Mapzen POI Collecter has had 1,108 downloads since it launched, which accounts for roughly 0.6% of the OSM user base. I would guess that 10% - 20% of the OSM user base have iPhones. For editor developers, it would be really useful to know what proportion of the OSM user base have what kind of mobile devices and more importantly what their intentions are for their next device. The Mapzen tools are aimed at mappers who are not well served by current tools. If I knew that, for example, 10%-20% of OSMers who weren't already using Vespucci were intended to buy Android devices in the next few months, we would definitely release an Android version of Mapzen POI Collector. On the other hand, if the single biggest base of OSM users have iPhones, a Mapzen address adding tool is more likely. It would be great to have some kind of survey that OSMers could volunteer to take part in to answer these questions. -- Nick On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason ava...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 20:09, Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com wrote: as a massive self-plug, here's a more in-depth look at some of the editor data. unfortunately, there isn't enough data to do this for any editor other than the big three, but hopefully in six months time... This looks nice. It's certainly a lot better than my ad-hoc statistics I posted in september: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2009-September/042902.html One thing that I missed about your stats though is language statistics like the ones I posted (but done better with fancy graphs, obviousl :). Since I posted my stats I've added information about the user language to Potlatch (previously only JOSM had them), but unfortunately it looks like the Merkaartor people have ignored my request of adding it to their created_by string. It would be really cool to see statistics per-editor and per-language presented in such a way that one could gauge whether an editor being localized had an effect on its update. I recently found out for example that the Potlatch translation into Italian was really incomplete while JOSM was almost 100% translated into Italian (and JOSM has like 4000 strings while Potlatch has around 300). I contacted some Italian translators about this and Potlatch now has a much better Italian translation. Perhaps some Italians where shunning Potlatch because of this, it would be interesting to see stats to confirm or disprove that. ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Tagwatch Editor Counts
Interesting data. If there are 190,000 OSM contributors and around 10% of them are active, how come there are 50,000 users using Potlatch on one day? -- Nick On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 2:18 AM, Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com wrote: in case anyone is interested, here's the data from the 25th. num is the number of changesets, num_data is those with bboxes, num_users is the number of distinct (public) user ids. of course, this was before mapzen poi collector was released in the app store, so it's not very helpful for that ;-) creator | num | num_data | num_users --+-+--+--- Potlatch | 964387 | 718768 | 54823 JOSM | 1064183 | 1015659 | 12741 Merkaartor | 121672 | 114819 | 2057 BigTinCan Upload Script | 245 | 201 | 109 osm2go | 898 | 865 | 98 iLOE | 940 | 850 | 84 Osmose Raw Editor | 714 | 330 | 78 bulk_upload | 59740 | 55051 | 58 osmtools | 7914 | 7622 | 56 Vespucci | 542 | 359 | 48 Mapzen Alpha | 310 | 164 | 37 andnav | 207 | 191 | 31 Mapzen POI Collector | 738 | 709 | 27 QGIS OSM v | 114 | 98 | 23 PythonOsmApi | 935 | 753 | 18 upload | 35026 | 33431 | 14 KMLManager | 17443 | 17313 | 9 cheers, matt On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 6:37 PM, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk wrote: On 28 Nov 2009, at 13:00, Nick Black wrote: Hi Guys, A few people have been asked if I have any stats on Mapzen POI Collector usage. I took a look at the tagwatch editor page [1] but neither Mapzen Alpha or Mapzen POI Collector in any of its versions appears in the list. Both apps tag the change set [2] rather than the node or way that is created. I'm wondering if this is why there are no stats on the editor's usage in Tagwatch? If this is the case, how can I help update Tagwatch to look at change sets? [1] http://tagwatch.stoecker.eu/Europe/En/top_used_editors.html [2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2996362 It looks like that up until the 26 November there have been less than 783 changesets with the exact editor name that mapzen is using. You can use the changeset info dump to do this analysis. It is available from http://planet.openstreetmap.org/ on a weekly basis. Shaun ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
[OSM-dev] Tagwatch Editor Counts
Hi Guys, A few people have been asked if I have any stats on Mapzen POI Collector usage. I took a look at the tagwatch editor page [1] but neither Mapzen Alpha or Mapzen POI Collector in any of its versions appears in the list. Both apps tag the change set [2] rather than the node or way that is created. I'm wondering if this is why there are no stats on the editor's usage in Tagwatch? If this is the case, how can I help update Tagwatch to look at change sets? [1] http://tagwatch.stoecker.eu/Europe/En/top_used_editors.html [2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2996362 -- Nick Black n...@cloudmade.com twitter.com/nick_b ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Any OpenStreetMap viewer for Android?
Hi guys, I'll let Jaak from Nutiteq comment more, but it seems pretty clear to me: http://www.nutiteq.com/faq.html#What_are_your_licensing_options Can I use the tools for free? You can use MGMaps Lib SDK for free within the terms of GPL. It means that you need to license your application also as GPL, i.e. publish also your application source code. For commercial applications we suggest commercial licenses. You can use a GPL version of the SDK for free / gratis. If you do not want to license your end product GPL then you can license a non-GPL version of the code from Nutiteq. This is a pretty common form of licensing, used by MySQL AB and Trolltech for Qt (http://qt.nokia.com/products/licensing). I would certainly not say that Nutiteq don't know what they are talking about and I wouldn't stay away from them. They are a for profit company who are making their libraries available for open source developers to build on. That definitely puts them in my good books :-) -- Nick On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 3:15 AM, Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org wrote: On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 04:03:21PM +0100, Stefan Keller wrote: Here we are; trapped in the confusion I got before: * http://www.nutiteq.com/e-shop.html says MGMaps Lib SDK is open source toolkit * Inside the zip file of the lib there's a LICENSE file which says GPL. * http://developers.cloudmade.com/projects/show/j2me-lib-android at least implicitly supports this I interpret this as a dual license. I interpret this as they don't know what they are talking about, so keep away :-) Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev -- -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] JSON/GeoJSON output format for 0.6 api
Jeff + list, Take a look at the candidate features for future versions of CloudMade's vector map server: http://developers.cloudmade.com/projects/vector-tiles/issues We're planning features that would support the kind of usage you are talking about, including JSON output and filtering of the returned data. All of this will be separate to OSM so won't burden the OSM infrastructure and allows OSM to focus on editing. Vote up any features you like the sound off, add any more you need. -- Nick On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 1:23 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, Tels wrote: Well, one could fetch the data at z17, see it is below some $ARBITRARY_THRESHOLD, zoom out to z16m, fetch again, and if still below $THRESHOLD, repeat it until either there is too much data (display message) or the user-requested zoomlevel was reached. I think the ti...@home folks already keep a database that says how complex each level-12 tile is. So if we were not so busy telling them how they're technologically backwards and how their whole project is rubbish, they might just give us that. I also suspect that the size of a PNG tile would bear a halfway linear relationship to the amount of data on that tile, so a HEAD request against the tile server could work just as well. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev -- Nick Black n...@cloudmade.com twitter.com/nick_b ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 9:45 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, Dermot McNally wrote: Clearly every potential user of OSM is different, but for me, a key benefit when I discovered the project what hey, vector data, that can be used for routing!. If we think that others discovering the project would thing likewise then a prominent path from project home page to a routing engine (and I really couldn't care less whose) would be a Good Thing. As long as it works acceptably well, of course... But isn't this angle one where the open/closed distinction gains weight again? Currently, you can (and I've done this a number of times) tell potential OSM users: Everything on openstreetmap.org is free software and free data - you can build the exact same site for yourself with all its functionality from our database and our svn *). With non-free routing or geocoding services that would stop. If we want OSM to grow and become more successful than it is then we have to get over the idea that the only people who matter are software developers. There are around 12 - 17 million software developers in the world. How many of those developers know how to use SVN? Maybe 1%. How many are FLOSS developers? How many care enough about OSM to learn how to use it? If 1% of software developers care about OSM, which is very optimistic estimate, then we have a total pool of people who could do as you suggest of around 170,000 people. Not very many. How do people discover OSM? Their friend tells them or they find it through a Google search. They take a look at the front page of the site and within 2-5 seconds they make their minds up about it. I don't have the numbers, but I'd guess that we have between a less than 1% conversion rate from unique visitors to OSM to people who sign-up for an account. Imagine if we could increase that rate by 5x. 5x more people sign up for an account, 5x more people mapping, 5x more people submitting patches to JOSM and Potlatch. 5x more people at SOTM, 5x more Foundation members. We really need to think about what is more important to OSM. The most important thing in my view is creating the best free map of the world. To do that we need to encourage more people to join OSM - people who do not know or care what SVN is or why a routing algorithm does its thing. Surely the biggest victory for any open source project is to squash its competitors and completely change the game? Few open source projects have achieved this. In 5 years time, the entire concept of proprietary maps created by guys in vans could be a thing of the past. OpenStreetMap and our way of doing things will have completely wiped the floor with our competitors. We can only get to this point if we stop thinking of ourselves as a small, specialist community and start to think of ourselves as a mainstream movement that caters for the needs of everyone - not just the free software world. Bye Frederik *) And add in fine print if you're willing to devote a few man-months to get to grips with the finer details of Ruby, PHP, Python, PostGIS, Mapnik and others -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 -- -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Sander Hoentjen san...@hoentjen.euwrote: On Thu, 2009-04-30 at 09:03 +0100, Nick Black wrote: Surely the biggest victory for any open source project is to squash its competitors and completely change the game? Few open source projects have achieved this. In 5 years time, the entire concept of proprietary maps created by guys in vans could be a thing of the past. OpenStreetMap and our way of doing things will have completely wiped the floor with our competitors. We can only get to this point if we stop thinking of ourselves as a small, specialist community and start to think of ourselves as a mainstream movement that caters for the needs of everyone - not just the free software world. But still, If you want an *open source* project to squash its competitors and completely change the game Then in my opinion you need to do that with *open source*. You have to see that there's a dividing line though. On one side of the line - we use Yahoo! imagery that is powered by proprietary software. And we also use handheld GPS units that are powered by proprietary software. It would be insane to turn away Yahoo or ban contributions from Garmin units because the firmware is not open source. On the other side of the line there is the server software that gets better because its open source - if it was not open source, people might not contribute to the code. We have to be pragmatic when we assert opinions and ideals and ask ourselves if what we are considering will help or hinder OSM in the long run. Do we really think that having routing from a non-open source will hurt OSM more than it will benefit OSM? So while I do agree with routing being a good showcase and attraction to the project, I think this project is only succeeding in it's goals because of the open source nature, and we need to protect that. ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev -- -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com wrote: Nick Black wrote: Sent: 30 April 2009 9:04 AM To: Frederik Ramm Cc: dev@openstreetmap.org; Chris-Hein Lunkhusen; Tom Hughes Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site. On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 9:45 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, Dermot McNally wrote: Clearly every potential user of OSM is different, but for me, a key benefit when I discovered the project what hey, vector data, that can be used for routing!. If we think that others discovering the project would thing likewise then a prominent path from project home page to a routing engine (and I really couldn't care less whose) would be a Good Thing. As long as it works acceptably well, of course... But isn't this angle one where the open/closed distinction gains weight again? Currently, you can (and I've done this a number of times) tell potential OSM users: Everything on openstreetmap.org is free software and free data - you can build the exact same site for yourself with all its functionality from our database and our svn *). With non-free routing or geocoding services that would stop. If we want OSM to grow and become more successful than it is then we have to get over the idea that the only people who matter are software developers. There are around 12 - 17 million software developers in the world. How many of those developers know how to use SVN? Maybe 1%. How many are FLOSS developers? How many care enough about OSM to learn how to use it? If 1% of software developers care about OSM, which is very optimistic estimate, then we have a total pool of people who could do as you suggest of around 170,000 people. Not very many. How do people discover OSM? Their friend tells them or they find it through a Google search. They take a look at the front page of the site and within 2-5 seconds they make their minds up about it. I don't have the numbers, but I'd guess that we have between a less than 1% conversion rate from unique visitors to OSM to people who sign-up for an account. Imagine if we could increase that rate by 5x. 5x more people sign up for an account, 5x more people mapping, 5x more people submitting patches to JOSM and Potlatch. 5x more people at SOTM, 5x more Foundation members. We really need to think about what is more important to OSM. The most important thing in my view is creating the best free map of the world. To do that we need to encourage more people to join OSM - people who do not know or care what SVN is or why a routing algorithm does its thing. Surely the biggest victory for any open source project is to squash its competitors and completely change the game? Few open source projects have achieved this. In 5 years time, the entire concept of proprietary maps created by guys in vans could be a thing of the past. OpenStreetMap and our way of doing things will have completely wiped the floor with our competitors. We can only get to this point if we stop thinking of ourselves as a small, specialist community and start to think of ourselves as a mainstream movement that caters for the needs of everyone - not just the free software world. I feel this somewhat misses the point. Openstreetmap is about the data and nothing else. No data, no interest in OSM, huge data, huge interest in OSM. That interest will come automatically if we have the best data set bar none. OK, but there's a massive chicken and a bigger egg here. The point is very much that OSM should be doing everything we can to encourage a broad range of people to contribute to the map and be part of the community. What really worries me is an attitude that the only people who deserve the more advanced map editing tools that sit in OSM's SVN are people who have the technical ability to use them. I don't think any of us want to create a project that is only accessible by the technical elite. From that point of view it doesn’t matter at all what software is used to make use of the data, but as an open source project we should at least encourage and promote any open source software that is found to be useful and relevant. On the other side of the equation I don’t see it as OSM's place to go promoting commercial products, even if they are good. We can list them on the wiki etc, but surely it is for those commercial companies to do their own promotion of OSM related products, not OSM. As for thinking we are a small specialised community I stopped thinking that way many months ago. We are THE big player here, but is in data, not software. OSM is not a software development project. Too many eggs in the basket if we were. Lets stick to what we know, which is collecting and maintaining a great
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com wrote: Nick Black [mailto:nickbla...@gmail.com] wrote: Sent: 30 April 2009 1:48 PM To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) Cc: Frederik Ramm; dev@openstreetmap.org; Chris-Hein Lunkhusen; Tom Hughes Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site. On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com wrote: Nick Black wrote: Sent: 30 April 2009 9:04 AM To: Frederik Ramm Cc: dev@openstreetmap.org; Chris-Hein Lunkhusen; Tom Hughes Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site. On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 9:45 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, Dermot McNally wrote: Clearly every potential user of OSM is different, but for me, a key benefit when I discovered the project what hey, vector data, that can be used for routing!. If we think that others discovering the project would thing likewise then a prominent path from project home page to a routing engine (and I really couldn't care less whose) would be a Good Thing. As long as it works acceptably well, of course... But isn't this angle one where the open/closed distinction gains weight again? Currently, you can (and I've done this a number of times) tell potential OSM users: Everything on openstreetmap.org is free software and free data - you can build the exact same site for yourself with all its functionality from our database and our svn *). With non-free routing or geocoding services that would stop. If we want OSM to grow and become more successful than it is then we have to get over the idea that the only people who matter are software developers. There are around 12 - 17 million software developers in the world. How many of those developers know how to use SVN? Maybe 1%. How many are FLOSS developers? How many care enough about OSM to learn how to use it? If 1% of software developers care about OSM, which is very optimistic estimate, then we have a total pool of people who could do as you suggest of around 170,000 people. Not very many. How do people discover OSM? Their friend tells them or they find it through a Google search. They take a look at the front page of the site and within 2-5 seconds they make their minds up about it. I don't have the numbers, but I'd guess that we have between a less than 1% conversion rate from unique visitors to OSM to people who sign-up for an account. Imagine if we could increase that rate by 5x. 5x more people sign up for an account, 5x more people mapping, 5x more people submitting patches to JOSM and Potlatch. 5x more people at SOTM, 5x more Foundation members. We really need to think about what is more important to OSM. The most important thing in my view is creating the best free map of the world. To do that we need to encourage more people to join OSM - people who do not know or care what SVN is or why a routing algorithm does its thing. Surely the biggest victory for any open source project is to squash its competitors and completely change the game? Few open source projects have achieved this. In 5 years time, the entire concept of proprietary maps created by guys in vans could be a thing of the past. OpenStreetMap and our way of doing things will have completely wiped the floor with our competitors. We can only get to this point if we stop thinking of ourselves as a small, specialist community and start to think of ourselves as a mainstream movement that caters for the needs of everyone - not just the free software world. I feel this somewhat misses the point. Openstreetmap is about the data and nothing else. No data, no interest in OSM, huge data, huge interest in OSM. That interest will come automatically if we have the best data set bar none. OK, but there's a massive chicken and a bigger egg here. The point is very much that OSM should be doing everything we can to encourage a broad range of people to contribute to the map and be part of the community. What really worries me is an attitude that the only people who deserve the more advanced map editing tools that sit in OSM's SVN
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de wrote: Nick Black wrote: Do we really think that having routing from a non-open source will hurt OSM more than it will benefit OSM? ...since there is an open source initiative build from the community, then it will hurt that alternative by going closed. I doubt it. I reckon the different open source efforts would focus on specialist routing - like making great bicycle routes that take into account elevation for example, which CloudMade's routing is not specialized at. Stefan -- -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: Chris-Hein Lunkhusen wrote: Марат Хасанов schrieb: http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions (only view and routing tabs works) Hi, is it planned to integrate this on the openstreetmap.org site ? I think it's highly unlikely. Why's that? Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev -- -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
2009/4/29 Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com Tom Hughes wrote: Sent: 29 April 2009 8:41 AM To: Nick Black Cc: dev@openstreetmap.org; Chris-Hein Lunkhusen Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site. Nick Black wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu mailto:t...@compton.nu wrote: Chris-Hein Lunkhusen wrote: Марат Хасанов schrieb: http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions (only view and routing tabs works) Hi, is it planned to integrate this on the openstreetmap.org http://openstreetmap.org site ? I think it's highly unlikely. Why's that? My personal views inline below Well there are several reasons which would make me disinclined to integrate it, so I at least would need some persuasion. First up is the general question of whether we want a routing function on the site - it has been said repeatedly in the past that our aim is to provide the data and let other people innovate with it. This sort of things is just another step to making the site a full featured Google Maps clone where doing all the data presentation as well as the production. This is a position which I believe Steve has advocated on a number of occasions in the past. Agree with Tom here. OSM is about data collection and storage.Our tools on the main website should be focused on that. I can argue that all the current tools are useful for contribution in some way. Routing is also useful if its configured to help find errors, ie to test if the data is accurate in terms of routing, However this capability would be better integrated into editing software. Completely agree that this functionality would be best integrated into editing software, but OSM has always taken a one step at a time approach. I see this as the first step toward the editing tools supporting better validation of roads for routing. On top of that is the policy question of whether, if we decided we wanted a routing function, we would want that to be based on a closed source service from a commercial organisation. Obviously that is a policy decision for the Foundation but on the face of it I would tend to be opposed. Again I agree with Tom, I don't see the benefit to OSM of adding close source services. Even if they make the map better and make life better for mappers? What is the real difference between using a GPS unit with closed source software and using third party web services that are closed source to enhance core OSM software? Finally, even if we decided such a closed source commercial service was acceptable there are obviously specific questions when the source of that service is Cloudmade - the risk of such a decision being viewed in an unfavourable light by others when Cloudmade in general, and you and Steve in particular, are so closely linked to the project in general and the Foundation in particular is obviously quite large. Look at it this way - if we integrate this, what do we do when Frederik and Jochen come calling asking us to give their (hypothetical as far as I know) routing service equal space/prominence? Again I agree that as other have suggested if we did want a routing service on the OSM site it should not be restrictive to any one service provider. Again - definitely agree with this on the grounds that creating competition within third party developers will lead to better apps for OSM. At the end of the day, these are policy matters for the Foundation, but as things stand my advice to them would be along the lines described above. The Foundation and the OSM contributor base need to debate what meets the current aims of the project and where there are gaps in meeting those aims. We might also debate whether the current aims are appropriate or if the community wants to change them. I'll bring this up at our next OSMF Board meeting. It could be a good idea to get input from the community on their appreciation of the aims of OSM to help with this. We should also go far wider than the small section of the community who are on the mailing list to make sure we're getting a true feel for people's opinions. Cheers Andy -- -- Nick Black twitter.com/nick_b ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site.
I've had quite a few off-list emails from different people asking for more details about this service, so I want to clarify a few things. In December 2008 the OSM-F Board discussed an offer from CloudMade to use their routing and geocoding services on the OSM site, free of charge. We discussed this as a Board and unanimously agreed that any third party services to be used on OSM.org should be offered to the community to make a decision about. The current sandbox implementation and patch is just that - a working demonstration of a service that the community is able to accept and have integrated onto the OSM site, reject or make changes to. There is nothing stopping anyone taking the UI that has been offered and tying that into any other routing service. Cheers, 2009/4/29 Nick Black nickbla...@gmail.com 2009/4/29 Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com Tom Hughes wrote: Sent: 29 April 2009 8:41 AM To: Nick Black Cc: dev@openstreetmap.org; Chris-Hein Lunkhusen Subject: Re: [OSM-dev] Cloudmade routing for OSM rails_port site. Nick Black wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu mailto:t...@compton.nu wrote: Chris-Hein Lunkhusen wrote: Марат Хасанов schrieb: http://mkhasanov.sandbox.cloudmade.com/directions (only view and routing tabs works) Hi, is it planned to integrate this on the openstreetmap.org http://openstreetmap.org site ? I think it's highly unlikely. Why's that? My personal views inline below Well there are several reasons which would make me disinclined to integrate it, so I at least would need some persuasion. First up is the general question of whether we want a routing function on the site - it has been said repeatedly in the past that our aim is to provide the data and let other people innovate with it. This sort of things is just another step to making the site a full featured Google Maps clone where doing all the data presentation as well as the production. This is a position which I believe Steve has advocated on a number of occasions in the past. Agree with Tom here. OSM is about data collection and storage.Our tools on the main website should be focused on that. I can argue that all the current tools are useful for contribution in some way. Routing is also useful if its configured to help find errors, ie to test if the data is accurate in terms of routing, However this capability would be better integrated into editing software. Completely agree that this functionality would be best integrated into editing software, but OSM has always taken a one step at a time approach. I see this as the first step toward the editing tools supporting better validation of roads for routing. On top of that is the policy question of whether, if we decided we wanted a routing function, we would want that to be based on a closed source service from a commercial organisation. Obviously that is a policy decision for the Foundation but on the face of it I would tend to be opposed. Again I agree with Tom, I don't see the benefit to OSM of adding close source services. Even if they make the map better and make life better for mappers? What is the real difference between using a GPS unit with closed source software and using third party web services that are closed source to enhance core OSM software? Finally, even if we decided such a closed source commercial service was acceptable there are obviously specific questions when the source of that service is Cloudmade - the risk of such a decision being viewed in an unfavourable light by others when Cloudmade in general, and you and Steve in particular, are so closely linked to the project in general and the Foundation in particular is obviously quite large. Look at it this way - if we integrate this, what do we do when Frederik and Jochen come calling asking us to give their (hypothetical as far as I know) routing service equal space/prominence? Again I agree that as other have suggested if we did want a routing service on the OSM site it should not be restrictive to any one service provider. Again - definitely agree with this on the grounds that creating competition within third party developers will lead to better apps for OSM. At the end of the day, these are policy matters for the Foundation, but as things stand my advice to them would be along the lines described above. The Foundation and the OSM contributor base need to debate what meets the current aims of the project and where there are gaps in meeting those aims. We might also debate whether the current aims are appropriate or if the community wants to change them. I'll bring this up at our next OSMF Board meeting. It could be a good idea to get input from the community on their appreciation of the aims of OSM to help with this. We should also go
Re: [OSM-dev] barrier-free/ handicapped-accessible website
On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 1:19 AM, Colin Marquardt cmarq...@googlemail.comwrote: 2009/3/20 Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com: Have copied the OSM dev mailing list in on this. -Original Message- From: Martin Noeske [mailto:mar...@noeske.org] Sent: 20 March 2009 10:56 AM To: t...@osmfoundation.org Subject: barrier-free/ handicapped-accessible website -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Helo, i'd like to ask, whether there exists an barrier-free version of openstreetmaps. Zooming might be already realized, but is there any possibility for increasing the font size and most important: changing the colors of the display. To more precise, i'd love to INVERT the colors. If openstreetmaps is open that far, i could help developing that, if not done already (I'm a developer myself, but have very limited time ;-) Once again: the map with dark/black background and hicontrast colors would be THE THING for me. Until we maybe add something like it on the front page, Martin could use e.g. http://maps.cloudmade.com/?styleId=1057 Nice map style ;-) Colin - you should check out the CloudMade style editor - its the quickest way to create a customized map style. Right now we're in a closed beta testing program, but we're processing requests pretty quickly. http://cloudmade.com/products/style-editor HTH Colin ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev -- Nick Black n...@cloudmade.com twitter.com/nick_b ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] requesting filtered europe-extract - question about osmosis
Marcus, This might help: http://downloads.cloudmade.com/europe/europe.poly http://downloads.cloudmade.com/europe/ for more European downloads from CloudMade. I'd also reccomend the great down them all download manager for FireFox: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/201 Good luck, On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 10:07 AM, Marcus Wolschon mar...@wolschon.bizwrote: 2008/12/26, Marcus Wolschon mar...@wolschon.biz: 2008/12/25, Marcus Wolschon mar...@wolschon.biz: Are you aware that, because of the huge amount of coastline, such an extract is about 7% the size of the unfiltered Europe extract? Here's your file, it has 70 MB: http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/cemw.osm.bz2 Hello again, could it be that this files does not contain any nodes but only ways? Okay, I give up. 5 Atempts to download it. The last time my connection broke down after 4 hours and firefox does not let me resume. At the congress I should be able to get a local worldfile onto a larger laptop. Whar command-line do I have to run with osmosis to extract europe and to get only ways (and their nodes) that contain a given tag=value -combination? Is this osmosis --read-xml planet.osm.bz2 --way-key-value keyValueList=highway.motorway --bounding-polygon file=europe_outline.txt completeWays=yes --used-node --write-xml european_motorways.osm ? The page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmosis#--bounding-polygon_.28--bp.29 links to http://www.maproom.psu.edu for polygon-files. However I cannot find a europe- polygon there. Where can I get that shape? Marcus ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Garmin GPX madness
If you had 30 traces down a road and no dop information and you derived a centre line, using only the lat lons of the 30 different traces, how much less precise would the result be than taking 30 traces with dop info and figuring out a centre line? Stefan and Oliver - if you really believe that the community have been brainwashed by Garmin, what's your plan of action to reverse the brainwashing and liberate our minds? On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 10:54 PM, Stefan de Konink [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Richard Fairhurst schreef: When people learn to draw decent curves with polylines, _then_ we'll start worrying about GPS accuracy. Since we are already in serious preparations to go and support NURBS... polylines even will get irrelevant too, less nodes, more accuracy and better data representation :) Oh I love those mapping parties that end up in devtalk ;) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkjWwp4ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0JcgCglEHr59MvWqJNEMfVW8hjkSOo egwAn0GPRg/ExStV4ndQTx3EDxKrVm9k =31HK -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] OSM on Magellan
Routing would be awesome, but topo maps are a great start anyway. On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 11:21 AM, henrik johansson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/9/19 Nick Black [EMAIL PROTECTED] Henrick - this looks very cool, great work! Are the maps routable? Nick No, not yet at least. But I have been looking into how the routing network is stored and I have at least some clues how it works. There are special routing layers on different level of detail that stores the end points of the polylines in the routable layers. The routing layers also contains information about the length, max speed, angle of the end-points and a reference to the layer number. So routable maps may be supported in the future. /Henrik -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Online/offline slippy map finished.
Great idea - this could be really useful.
I get lots of errors running on OS X 10.5.2 though:
Exception happened during processing of request from ('127.0.0.1', 63833)
Traceback (most recent call last):
File
/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/SocketServer.py,
line 222, in handle_request
File
/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/SocketServer.py,
line 241, in process_request
File
/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/SocketServer.py,
line 254, in finish_request
File
/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/SocketServer.py,
line 522, in __init__
File
/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/BaseHTTPServer.py,
line 316, in handle
File
/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/BaseHTTPServer.py,
line 310, in handle_one_request
File ./pymap, line 47, in do_GET
if e.errno == os.errno.ENOENT:
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'errno'
$ python --version
Python 2.5
Any ideas?
Cheers,
On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Andy Allan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 12:01 PM, Sebastian Spaeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Frustrated by the lack of a nice map viewing tool for my eee pc, I have
written my own hack. It's a local OpenLayers installation that is served
by a python script (stock python, no additional libs). If the tile does
not exist yet, it will be downloaded from the OSM tile server and be
stored locally, so those tiles will be available for offline viewing.
Tiles will be downloaded and stored in a directory called 'tiles' in the
pyweb directory. If anybody finds it useful that is cool, otherwise I
have just scratched my itch.
I'll need to check this out - I've found it frustrating trying to demo
the map even if I'm carrying my laptop around. On the vague chance
that there's wireless available, all I get is ooh, that's really
slow when it's the crappy wireless that's the problem :-) Simple
local caching sounds good.
Cheers,
Andy
___
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Nick Black
http://www.blacksworld.net
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Re: [OSM-dev] Online/offline slippy map finished.
Cool - its all working now. Is there any cache expiry for tiles or is it a case of deleting the tile directory? Cheers, On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 1:01 PM, Sebastian Spaeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nick Black wrote: Great idea - this could be really useful. I get lots of errors running on OS X 10.5.2 though: File ./pymap, line 47, in do_GET if e.errno == os.errno.ENOENT: AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'errno' I guess this should work on all (unixy) OS then: -import urllib,re,os,sys,stat +import urllib,re,os,sys,stat,errno - if e.errno != os.errno.EEXIST + if e.errno != errno.EEXIST - if e.errno == os.errno.ENOENT + if e.errno == errno.ENOENT I updated the tar ball on dev.openstreetmap.org as well. spaetz -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] dev server /home diskusage
Spring clean complete: 278M :-) On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 6:56 AM, Martijn van Oosterhout [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Sebastian Spaeth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Our /home partition on dev is 83% full and I suspect many unneeded data linger there. Thanks for the heads up, I've removed 1.2GB. 1394368 kleptog now 189308 Have a nice day, -- Martijn van Oosterhout [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://svana.org/kleptog/ ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev
[OSM-dev] Fwd: [Mapnik-devel] Problems in Mapnik
Forwarded from mapnik-devel -- Forwarded message -- From: Martin Koppenhoefer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 3:35 PM Subject: [Mapnik-devel] Problems in Mapnik To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi developpers, I'm a big fan of the mapnik render engine, but suffering a bit because of some deficits still immanent. As I couldn't put a Mapnik-Ticket in the trac, I'm trying to contact you via Email. The most serious issue IMHO is the missing squares. Mapnik unlike Osmarender renders highways that are tagged with area=yes just with outlines. As squares are very important for the grafical appearance / for orientation, this should be very nice to have also in Mapnik. This is also a problem for buildings, that share nodes with surrounding areas and by now are cut by overlappings from highway-outlines that should be areas instead. I don't know, but I seem to remember, that some of the features listed down here once have been in the Maps, anyway, at the moment they aren't but would be really nice to have. There are some features missing, that I would love to have in Mapnik, the following amenities: - pharmacy - drinking_water (there is a icon here, which is according to this page PD: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Talk:Proposed_features/Potable_Water: http://www.blm.gov/nstc/mapstandards/downloads/inter.pdf number 37) - telephone - theatre - cinema - university - fuel - arts-centre - fountain and also historic: -monument -ruins -archaeological_site and man_made: - lighthouse - tower railway: - subway_entrance shop: - bicycle - book (is still a proposed feature, unlike all the others mentioned above) also I suggest to put bicycle-paths generally above streets in the render, as they are dottet lines and allow to see the streets that lie underneath in cases, where bicycle paths follow the street in a narrow distance. For areas instead, this should not apply, as squares are often represented as highway =pedestrian, area = yes, with highway= some car accessible street running over it to show the actual traffic possibilities. Some days before I also experienced a problem with churches, who would on highest zoom level display only the icon whilst one zoomlevel below show also the name, but today, this wasn't there any more, so maybe it's already corrected (but still some churches don't even show their name on any zoom level). of course it would also be great to have relations in a more advanced way, but this will be more work to implement, I guess. (e.g. someone put all river segments in Rome into one relation (41,8014855 12,3865226) with the result, that it doesn't appear on the map any more). best wishes and thanks for any reply, Martin ___ Mapnik-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/mapnik-devel -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] GSoC applications are in! MENTORS wanted
On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 5:23 PM, Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, What? Geonames allows you to move and edit data which is overlaid onto a Google Map. Go to http://www.geonames.org/maps/cities.html and click on a city. You're right, there's a move link there which I had overlooked. Nonetheless, apart from the geo location of the city I get tons of other info that could not possibly come from Google... I'm not sure that Teleatlas would see it that way, but that's not the point. We don't want to find out how TA would see OSM's use of or infringement of their data. I understand a certain desire to say we are cooler than other mapping project but we should make an attempt to do so without slander. As you know there are ways and tools to create OSM data that is derived from Google Earth or Google Maps, Like what? No-one should be entering data into OSM that is derived from a proprietary source. I know that nobody should, and I won't give you a run-down of ways for people to do it nonetheless. I'm just saying that if someone was bent on demonstrating how easy Google data could find its way into OSM, then he wouldn't have to work very hard. Ok, but there's a difference between saying that someone could add proprietary data to OSM and saying there are tools to add Google derived data to OSM - thats very specific. If you or anyone knows about this you should ask whoever is developing or promoting the tools to stop and let the foundation know about it. I admit that its probably not best to list these sort of things on a public mailing list. Bye Frederik -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev
[OSM-dev] osmlib - which version of libxml
Hello, I can't get into the osmlib list, so I'm asking here. I last used osmlib before christmas, but today it isn't working: $ osmexport 01_major_secondary.oxr putney.osm /output/ /sw/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/GeoRuby-1.3.2/lib/geo_ruby/simple_features/geometry.rb:22: warning: method redefined; discarding old srid= /sw/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/osmlib-base-0.1.2/lib/OSM/StreamParser.rb:38: uninitialized constant XML::SaxParser::Callbacks (NameError) I thought this is an issue with libxml-ruby's new SAX paraser callbacks. I'm using libxml-ruby 0.3.8.4 on Ubuntu Mac. Do I need to update to 0.5.2 or 0.5.3? -- Nick Black ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] osmlib - which version of libxml
So you need libxml-ruby 0.5.3 to run the magic. On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Nick Black [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I can't get into the osmlib list, so I'm asking here. I last used osmlib before christmas, but today it isn't working: $ osmexport 01_major_secondary.oxr putney.osm /output/ /sw/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/GeoRuby-1.3.2/lib/geo_ruby/simple_features/geometry.rb:22: warning: method redefined; discarding old srid= /sw/lib/ruby/gems/1.8/gems/osmlib-base-0.1.2/lib/OSM/StreamParser.rb:38: uninitialized constant XML::SaxParser::Callbacks (NameError) I thought this is an issue with libxml-ruby's new SAX paraser callbacks. I'm using libxml-ruby 0.3.8.4 on Ubuntu Mac. Do I need to update to 0.5.2 or 0.5.3? -- Nick Black -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Restrict key names on order to retain reusability of OSM
2008/2/15 Stefan Keller [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Look: It seems to be debate about unstructured, semi-structured and structured data. What you're celebrating is something around semi-structured data. Marcus reminded my that OSM allows for a building to be more than just a shop, but a gas-station a fuel-station, lit, car-wash, etc. That's right, but keep in mind, that I *don't* propose to change the current internal OSM schema and I *won't* restrict the number of key on your side. I propose only to restict the character set of keys. I'm showing a use case where parts of the OSM data gets out into a usual application environment and I hope OSM was'nt meant to stick in it's free but closed world. So let's say for my application I'm happy with one attribute (type=shop) or two. You know that in a more application oriented environment you do stick to a schema with a distinct number of attributes and take care of each of them. Having said that, if you want multivalued attributes and lossless data exchange there are many possibilities in my example schema to either sync' back based on the ID or store all the additional key/values you may receive from the users (e.g. in a attribute). This again to the prize that there is no usable index in the application schema (except for the ). Rob wrote: You use building=shop in your examples but there is absolutely nothing to stop someone using (apologies in advance for my lack of language skills) construcción=almacén or ??=?. Good example: How to make a map of more than one country when you an me can't interpret construcción and ?? being buildings? How do you make a map of China without being able to use Mandarin characters? 2008/2/15, Jochen Topf [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 12:57:41AM +0100, Stefan Keller wrote: model and will never evolve or be re-imported from other databases. Users will be 'surprised' when they miss their data on the map like with 'Tunnel ' instead 'Tunnel' or with things like that '¨name'='Südstrasse'. My proposal would eliminate that. In OSM this problem is solved not by restricting what people can tag but by having tools like the JOSM validator plugin and Maplint that will tell you if there is data that looks wrong to the computer according to some criteria. It is the job of a human then to decide whether it actually is wrong in his opinion and fix it. I expect these tools to improve over time and eventually find most cases where people have accidentally used the wrong tag. With this solution we keep the default openness: People who want to use unusual tags on purpose are not restricted. Now obviously it's about geographic data as said in the OSM homepage and its about databases and it's hopefully not HTML. The model you choose it a sort of meta model which is ok for initial capturing but not optimal for post-processing and showing it in maps - and the difference (from your point of view) is just restricting key characters to some smaller set! Thats exactly what we are doing and want to be doing: We are capturing data in the most flexible way possible. Everybody who wants to *use* the data for something has to pick the subset of the data he is interested in and can convert it to any format he likes best and that is suited for his needs. Of course there are ways to store subsets of the data in more efficient forms and many people do that, but everybody has different needs and so needs different subsets of the data and in different forms. The needs for somebody drawing a map are very different from somebody doing routing, for instance. The OSM data model is not designed to be efficient, it is designed to be flexible. Jochen -- Jochen Topf [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Slippy map and zoom
On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 3:23 PM, John McKerrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 14 Feb 2008, at 15:02, Nick Black wrote: On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 2:15 PM, John McKerrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For these features, and more, head over to http://johnmckerrell.com/ map/#t=mapnik ;-) The tiles seem to load faster on your site - is the MM client performing magic that OL isn't? Yes. I guess that's the secret sauce in the MSFT burger. ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] c-programmer at your command
! ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev have fun, SteveC | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.asklater.com/steve/ ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Opentrail - What development environments would be best for mobile compatibility?
On Jan 25, 2008 3:26 PM, bvh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Jan 25, 2008 at 02:01:38PM +, Nick Black wrote: Regarding the OpenTrail OSM walking/hiking software idea that I'd like to develop given enough time (see earlier in the week), I'd like to ensure it's compatible with phones and other mobile devices. This will probably influence what language it's written in - my initial ideas are either C++(Qt), Java or C# (could share code with Igor in the last case). From what I know of mobile development, C# means it could run on Windows phones but maybe not others, Java works across the board and C++/Qt would restrict it to Qtopia-based phones. Is this about right? Can anyone with mobile development experience provide recommendations? Wait for the iPhone SDK. Odd advice from a mailing list of an _open_ source/data/whatever project. Not if you want to make a better map for OSM. If you must suggest a closed platform, then I would think symbian offers Symbian are in the course of being blown apart - why not back a winner? a better perspective. At least for that one there are already devices out there with built in GPS... But then you loose some of the But what's the actual penetration of devices with GPS onboard? desktop/mobile ease of migration that Qt gives you. cu bart ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Opentrail - What development environments would be best for mobile compatibility?
On Jan 25, 2008 10:58 AM, Nick Whitelegg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello everyone, Regarding the OpenTrail OSM walking/hiking software idea that I'd like to develop given enough time (see earlier in the week), I'd like to ensure it's compatible with phones and other mobile devices. This will probably influence what language it's written in - my initial ideas are either C++(Qt), Java or C# (could share code with Igor in the last case). From what I know of mobile development, C# means it could run on Windows phones but maybe not others, Java works across the board and C++/Qt would restrict it to Qtopia-based phones. Is this about right? Can anyone with mobile development experience provide recommendations? Wait for the iPhone SDK. Thanks, Nick ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] utf8 rendering bug
Is this the same tag at this zoom level, or a different one: http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.9068lon=116.3964zoom=13layers=0BFT On Jan 22, 2008 4:17 PM, Andy Robinson (blackadder) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And its no better on Osmarender either: http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.9lon=116.394zoom=10layers=0BFT Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Xin Zheng Sent: 22 January 2008 3:12 PM To: dev@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-dev] utf8 rendering bug Hello All, I believe I have found a bug with the map rendering. utf8 characters are not being rendered correctly. See the map below of Beijing. The city name show up as two rectangles. http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.9lon=116.394zoom=10layers=B0FT http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=39.9lon=116.394zoom=10layers=B0FT Cheers, Xin ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] NameFinder - problems building index
On Jan 21, 2008 5:57 PM, David Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 21/01/2008 17:28, Nick Black wrote: Ok, the problem was the namefinder.sql - I've checked in an updated version. Yes, sorry. You got to it before I did. That was a side effect of the change to API 0.5. If its taking five days to run on planet right now, its not a viable option. Have you (David) or anyone looked at running it from a diffed planet? Yes - I think I said previously, I have a design and I am about half way through coding it. The problem is that it isn't enough to just process a diff through the existing algorithm - for example, if a way is deleted with some name, that may require a node or way which is nearby which hasn't been changed so doesn't appear in the diff to be revealed in the name finder. Example: Parkside School in Cambridge is represented by both by a way (area) and a node, and there is also a Parkside School in Chester, say. The name finder search has two entries, one for the Cambridge name, which happens to be derived from the node, and one for the Chester. The node is removed. The name finder has to replace this with the area from Cambridge, so has to have reference to the whole data set in order to determine this because the area doesn't appear in the diff. Similarly, if the diff adds a name, it may not want to be added to the namefinder search as it may be very close to another entry with the same name. Ok, in the meantime, could I take a look at a sample of your apache logs to see what queries are coming from OSM? David -- Nick Black http://www.blacksworld.net ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev
