Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[Sobkowiak Krzysztof]

Hi

At the beginning I'd like to write I like the job you do with 
development of OpenWhisk and
I like this platform very much. I was talking about it some weeks ago 
and may people were
interested in it. I hope you will be able to graduate soon and become a 
TLP.


I see actually some problems with Slack too. It's a good communication 
channel, when you want
to discuss something quickly. I used it as well to discuss some 
questions with Rodric. And I liked
that Rodric sent a summary of our discussion to @dev. It worked like it 
really should work when

channels other than email are used for discussion.

But I see that not all discussions are summarized in dev@. The digests 
are good for archiving, but
it's difficult join a discussion in a specific thread, especially when 
the thread is old. The messages
in Slack are no more visible after some time (e.g. I cannot see today 
messaged older than 31st January,
I see following message "To see and search this channel's full history, 
upgrade to one of our paid plans")
With email threads it's easier to join the discussion for the particular 
thread or simply reference the thread

(e.g. by url of the thread)

You have also a huge amount of  know-how, tips and tricks and solutions 
in Github issues and pull requests.
They can be easily found when searching for problem solutions in Google. 
But it would be nice to have it on

the mailing list as well.

I agree with Matt's and Bertrand's suggestions. I think it will make the 
participation in this community
easier for people who prefer more asynchronous communication via mailing 
list. When we improve the
communication on the dev@ list I see no more big issues on the way to 
become a TLP.


Best regards

Krzysztof




On 25.03.2019 11:28, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:

Hi,

On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 7:27 PM Matt Sicker  wrote:

...My suggestion as to how to improve this wouldn't be the daily digest.
My suggestion would be to ensure any development conversations that
take place on Slack should be recreated on the mailing lists...

I agree with the intention, but having to "recreate" conversations can
be counter-productive, I'd rather say that any "important"
conversation needs to move out of Slack into a place which is fully
open (as in findable with a Google search), asynchronous and has a
persistent URL.

Git tickets or pull requests fit the bill for that IMO, but the
problem is that they are scattered among multiple Git repositories and
it's hard to follow them "from afar" while not missing important
things.

To me, the essence of "if it didn't happen on the dev list it didn't
happen" is being able to follow the project without missing anything
important by just subscribing to this list. It doesn't mean everything
has to really happen here (which I understand would not be popular)
but everything important has to be reflected here, one way or another,
so as to raise people's attention.

The automated Slack digests are useful for archiving things here but
as Matt Sicker says not really usable to quickly skim things.

I think the following should help convince the Incubator that this
project is ready to graduate as far as Apache-style communications are
concerned:

a) Guidelines (on http://openwhisk.apache.org/community.html probably)
on how to use Slack as opposed to more persistent and async channels.
That's basically "anything important needs to be fully open and
discoverable from the dev list, with a persistent URL", doesn't need
to be complicated but should reassure the Incubator that the project
is clear about this.

b) Weekly news on this list about what's going on generally and which
PRs and tickets one should look at to stay informed. Might be
automated or semi-automated but I suppose some redactional content
helps. As I suppose the "full-timers" on this project are all on
Slack, maybe a bot that collects /news items and sends them once a
week would make this easy?

-Bertrand

--
Krzysztof Sobkowiak

JEE & OSS Architect, Integration Architect
Apache Software Foundation Member (http://apache.org/)
Apache ServiceMix Committer & PMC Member (http://servicemix.apache.org/)
Apache Incubator PMC Member (https://incubator.apache.org/)
Senior Solution Architect @ Capgemini SSC 
(http://www.capgeminisoftware.pl/)

Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi,

On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 7:27 PM Matt Sicker  wrote:
> ...My suggestion as to how to improve this wouldn't be the daily digest.
> My suggestion would be to ensure any development conversations that
> take place on Slack should be recreated on the mailing lists...

I agree with the intention, but having to "recreate" conversations can
be counter-productive, I'd rather say that any "important"
conversation needs to move out of Slack into a place which is fully
open (as in findable with a Google search), asynchronous and has a
persistent URL.

Git tickets or pull requests fit the bill for that IMO, but the
problem is that they are scattered among multiple Git repositories and
it's hard to follow them "from afar" while not missing important
things.

To me, the essence of "if it didn't happen on the dev list it didn't
happen" is being able to follow the project without missing anything
important by just subscribing to this list. It doesn't mean everything
has to really happen here (which I understand would not be popular)
but everything important has to be reflected here, one way or another,
so as to raise people's attention.

The automated Slack digests are useful for archiving things here but
as Matt Sicker says not really usable to quickly skim things.

I think the following should help convince the Incubator that this
project is ready to graduate as far as Apache-style communications are
concerned:

a) Guidelines (on http://openwhisk.apache.org/community.html probably)
on how to use Slack as opposed to more persistent and async channels.
That's basically "anything important needs to be fully open and
discoverable from the dev list, with a persistent URL", doesn't need
to be complicated but should reassure the Incubator that the project
is clear about this.

b) Weekly news on this list about what's going on generally and which
PRs and tickets one should look at to stay informed. Might be
automated or semi-automated but I suppose some redactional content
helps. As I suppose the "full-timers" on this project are all on
Slack, maybe a bot that collects /news items and sends them once a
week would make this easy?

-Bertrand

Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[Matt Sicker]

Oh, and if you all figure out a way to easily digest the notification
info for dev@, that would be really cool, though I wouldn't consider
it necessary for graduation. Other ASF projects I've either worked
with or observed will all have their own spammy notification email for
archiving all the commits, issues, and comments. Finding a way to make
that more usable for contributors would be awesome, but I believe that
is an orthogonal concern to synchronous chat in general. Then again,
if you can digest a digest like that, maybe it will help more than I'd
expect?

On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 13:27, Matt Sicker  wrote:
>
> So I have some agreements with Bertrand here. I obviously don't work
> on this project full time (my full time work is involved in developing
> Jenkins), and the Slack digests, while useful, are nearly impossible
> to read whenever a large amount of discussion happens during a day,
> particularly because synchronous communication is mixed in with the
> typical development talk that would benefit most from being
> asynchronous. Another limitation I find there is that I can't exactly
> reply to digests, so having a longer term conversation that way
> doesn't exactly work.
>
> Suppose, for example, I'm a contributor from a timezone not typically
> aligned with the times most of the full time engineers work on this
> project. Then having a back and forth conversation on Slack can easily
> get lost in the history, particularly because I haven't exactly seen
> judicious use of threads, either (which are themselves limited to a
> single level of threading unlike email). The large amounts of
> unnecessary messages that come in with a digest make it much harder to
> follow the technical discussions compared to, say, the threads I've
> seen on dev@ and GitHub issues. This also makes it harder for anyone
> who didn't see the initial Slack thread to contribute to the
> discussion.
>
> In all, I'm very impressed by the maturity of this project so far.
> It's certainly a production-ready project from what I can tell, but
> I'm still concerned about the chat. This would still be a concern even
> if the ASF hosted Slack itself (which isn't currently possible
> anyways) or some other chat service. Basically, in a distributed OSS
> project like with ASF projects, I'd expect to be able to contribute
> outside work hours (e.g., nights and weekends) as a hobby, and having
> communications be focused in media such as mailing lists, forums, and
> issue trackers makes it much easier to keep up to date with things,
> filter out topics I don't care about, and maintain conversations over
> a period longer than a few hours or days. For a work comparison, do
> you bother reading all your missed Slack messages when you come back
> from a week or two of vacation? If so, you're much faster than I am at
> communication, and I'm already reading way too many mailing lists as
> it is. :D
>
> My suggestion as to how to improve this wouldn't be the daily digest.
> My suggestion would be to ensure any development conversations that
> take place on Slack should be recreated on the mailing lists. This can
> be based on or start from the digest or chat log, but coming up with a
> summary of what was discussed along with providing an easier to use
> anchor point for further discussion would go a long way toward helping
> address this disconnect. As we typically say over in Commons or the
> other more volunteer-driven projects at ASF: if it didn't happen on
> the mailing list, it didn't happen!
>
> On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 12:25, Michael Marth  wrote:
> >
> > Matt, all,
> >
> > Strongly agree.
> > My understanding is that moving from ASF incubator to TLP is not (at all) a 
> > statement about the technology but a statement about the community, its 
> > diversity (in terms of stakeholders) and ability to carry forward the 
> > project. I agree with everyone on this thread that OpenWhisk has proven to 
> > have achieved that mile stone
> >
> > (but it does not hurt the cause to say that the technology runs in 
> > production and is solid)
> >
> > Cheers
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> > On 19.03.19, 16:56, "Matt Rutkowski"  wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Dave for raising graduation as a topic.
> >
> > To be clear... +1 (with stars) from me on moving to graduate...
> >
> > It is my belief that this project has reached a maturity level, with 
> > credits to its devoted community, over the last 2 plus years to graduate.  
> > It has been no small task to bring under Apache compliance the numerous 
> > repos. this project manages and to deal with the ever-changing landscape of 
> > Serverless and remain relevant as new technologies and projects continue to 
> > enter this space.
> >
> > IMO, no other Serverless project offers a complete open source FaaS 
> > platform solution that supports such a wide array of deployment choices, 
> > runtimes, tooling (and I could go on and on) while striving to enable 
> > choice for via documented 

Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[Matt Sicker]

So I have some agreements with Bertrand here. I obviously don't work
on this project full time (my full time work is involved in developing
Jenkins), and the Slack digests, while useful, are nearly impossible
to read whenever a large amount of discussion happens during a day,
particularly because synchronous communication is mixed in with the
typical development talk that would benefit most from being
asynchronous. Another limitation I find there is that I can't exactly
reply to digests, so having a longer term conversation that way
doesn't exactly work.

Suppose, for example, I'm a contributor from a timezone not typically
aligned with the times most of the full time engineers work on this
project. Then having a back and forth conversation on Slack can easily
get lost in the history, particularly because I haven't exactly seen
judicious use of threads, either (which are themselves limited to a
single level of threading unlike email). The large amounts of
unnecessary messages that come in with a digest make it much harder to
follow the technical discussions compared to, say, the threads I've
seen on dev@ and GitHub issues. This also makes it harder for anyone
who didn't see the initial Slack thread to contribute to the
discussion.

In all, I'm very impressed by the maturity of this project so far.
It's certainly a production-ready project from what I can tell, but
I'm still concerned about the chat. This would still be a concern even
if the ASF hosted Slack itself (which isn't currently possible
anyways) or some other chat service. Basically, in a distributed OSS
project like with ASF projects, I'd expect to be able to contribute
outside work hours (e.g., nights and weekends) as a hobby, and having
communications be focused in media such as mailing lists, forums, and
issue trackers makes it much easier to keep up to date with things,
filter out topics I don't care about, and maintain conversations over
a period longer than a few hours or days. For a work comparison, do
you bother reading all your missed Slack messages when you come back
from a week or two of vacation? If so, you're much faster than I am at
communication, and I'm already reading way too many mailing lists as
it is. :D

My suggestion as to how to improve this wouldn't be the daily digest.
My suggestion would be to ensure any development conversations that
take place on Slack should be recreated on the mailing lists. This can
be based on or start from the digest or chat log, but coming up with a
summary of what was discussed along with providing an easier to use
anchor point for further discussion would go a long way toward helping
address this disconnect. As we typically say over in Commons or the
other more volunteer-driven projects at ASF: if it didn't happen on
the mailing list, it didn't happen!

On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 12:25, Michael Marth  wrote:
>
> Matt, all,
>
> Strongly agree.
> My understanding is that moving from ASF incubator to TLP is not (at all) a 
> statement about the technology but a statement about the community, its 
> diversity (in terms of stakeholders) and ability to carry forward the 
> project. I agree with everyone on this thread that OpenWhisk has proven to 
> have achieved that mile stone
>
> (but it does not hurt the cause to say that the technology runs in production 
> and is solid)
>
> Cheers
> Michael
>
>
>
> On 19.03.19, 16:56, "Matt Rutkowski"  wrote:
>
> Thanks Dave for raising graduation as a topic.
>
> To be clear... +1 (with stars) from me on moving to graduate...
>
> It is my belief that this project has reached a maturity level, with 
> credits to its devoted community, over the last 2 plus years to graduate.  It 
> has been no small task to bring under Apache compliance the numerous repos. 
> this project manages and to deal with the ever-changing landscape of 
> Serverless and remain relevant as new technologies and projects continue to 
> enter this space.
>
> IMO, no other Serverless project offers a complete open source FaaS 
> platform solution that supports such a wide array of deployment choices, 
> runtimes, tooling (and I could go on and on) while striving to enable choice 
> for via documented plug-in points for common platform integrations such as 
> logging, metrics and test tooling, but also, for very complex topics such as 
> load balancing, scheduling and container pooling.
>
> This project is has matured to a point, where it should be noted, that we 
> are aware it is used in several public production offerings as a Serverless 
> platform directly or as the backing for FaaS integrations (such as for API 
> management or web hosting).
>
> If you cannot tell, I am all for moving towards graduation and (prompted 
> seeing this thread appear yesterday) have cleared my day to complete filling 
> out the maturity model matrix on our CWIKI (see 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OPENWHISK/Project+Maturity+Model) 
> to the best of my abilities and 

Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[Matt Rutkowski]

Thanks Dave for raising graduation as a topic.  

To be clear... +1 (with stars) from me on moving to graduate...

It is my belief that this project has reached a maturity level, with credits to 
its devoted community, over the last 2 plus years to graduate.  It has been no 
small task to bring under Apache compliance the numerous repos. this project 
manages and to deal with the ever-changing landscape of Serverless and remain 
relevant as new technologies and projects continue to enter this space. 

IMO, no other Serverless project offers a complete open source FaaS platform 
solution that supports such a wide array of deployment choices, runtimes, 
tooling (and I could go on and on) while striving to enable choice for via 
documented plug-in points for common platform integrations such as logging, 
metrics and test tooling, but also, for very complex topics such as load 
balancing, scheduling and container pooling.

This project is has matured to a point, where it should be noted, that we are 
aware it is used in several public production offerings as a Serverless 
platform directly or as the backing for FaaS integrations (such as for API 
management or web hosting). 

If you cannot tell, I am all for moving towards graduation and (prompted seeing 
this thread appear yesterday) have cleared my day to complete filling out the 
maturity model matrix on our CWIKI (see 
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OPENWHISK/Project+Maturity+Model) 
to the best of my abilities and will be asking for comment/review/edits on a 
separate thread once I complete my draft pass.

In truth, over the course of the last 2 years, I have have truly witnessed the 
community itself become a welcoming family that cares first and foremost about 
the code and improving and enabling it for its user base while establishing 
friendships that transcend other affiliations.

Cheers,
Matt


On 2019/03/15 22:06:38, "David P Grove"  wrote: 
> 
> 
> I'd like to kick off a discussion to assess the project's readiness for
> graduation from the incubator.
> 
> Per Rodric's recent stats [1], the community has developed nicely in terms
> of code contribution.
> 
> We've released a number of software components following the Apache release
> process.  We are in the midst of making our first "uber-release" across all
> of our sub-components (expect at least 2 voting threads next week).
> 
> Overall I think the community is active.  Communication on the project
> slack is frequent (avg of >160 messages a day) and is now digested daily to
> the dev list. (See [2] for stats).
> 
> There are a couple procedural tasks we still need to complete, foremost
> being the formal transfer of the OpenWhisk trademarks from IBM to the ASF.
> But I think we can assume that these tasks will be completed and start
> considering graduation in parallel.
> 
> Please share your thoughts,
> 
> --dave
> 
> [1]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b2217c61caad5c7a0369699d06d44e5cf688d3cba982e354a45b8c78@%3Cdev.openwhisk.apache.org%3E
> [2]
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=103091999
> 

Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[Rob Allen]

> On 19 Mar 2019, at 15:21, David P Grove  wrote:
> 
> Bertrand Delacretaz  wrote on 03/19/2019 11:01:30
> AM:
> 
>> 
>> Send a summary here, as a single message, with links, of which tickets
>> and pull requests are being actively worked on, aggregating all
>> OpenWhisk repositories. Based on activity stats (assuming the GitHub
>> API provides them) as well as optional labels that people can set on
>> tickets and PRs to surface them in that report.
>> 
>> I think that would be a great and quick way of answering "what's going
>> on these days" as well as help steer conversations towards these
>> places.
>> 
> 
> Does pony mail support digest subscriptions?  If so, the most robust way to
> accomplish this would be to subscribe @dev to a weekly digest of @issues.


The problem with @issues is that it's every comment. Ideally, @dev just needs 
the newly opened PRs. 


Regards,

Rob

Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[David P Grove]

Bertrand Delacretaz  wrote on 03/19/2019 11:01:30
AM:

> From: Bertrand Delacretaz 
> To: OpenWhisk Dev 
> Date: 03/19/2019 11:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator
>
> Hi,
>
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 3:57 PM Rodric Rabbah  wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 10:41 AM Bertrand Delacretaz
> 
> > wrote:
> > > Maybe running a query on all repositories for items with recent
> > > activity or with a specific label and sending the results here would
> > > help expose that?
> > >
> > Do you mean as a one off?...
>
> No, I mean regularly, weekly maybe?
>
> Send a summary here, as a single message, with links, of which tickets
> and pull requests are being actively worked on, aggregating all
> OpenWhisk repositories. Based on activity stats (assuming the GitHub
> API provides them) as well as optional labels that people can set on
> tickets and PRs to surface them in that report.
>
> I think that would be a great and quick way of answering "what's going
> on these days" as well as help steer conversations towards these
> places.
>

Does pony mail support digest subscriptions?  If so, the most robust way to
accomplish this would be to subscribe @dev to a weekly digest of @issues.

Seems like it would be common ask for apache projects given the culture of
wanting everything on the dev list...

--dave

Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[Rodric Rabbah]

On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 11:01 AM Bertrand Delacretaz 
wrote:

> Send a summary here, as a single message, with links, of which tickets
> and pull requests are being actively worked on, aggregating all
> OpenWhisk repositories. Based on activity stats (assuming the GitHub
> API provides them) as well as optional labels that people can set on
> tickets and PRs to surface them in that report.
>

Do you know of other Apache projects that might already be doing this with
Github that we can borrow from?

-r

Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[Rob Allen]

> On 19 Mar 2019, at 14:50, David P Grove  wrote:
> 
> Bertrand Delacretaz  wrote on 03/19/2019 10:40:51
> AM:
> 
>> From: Bertrand Delacretaz 
>> 
>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 3:34 PM Rob Allen  wrote:
>>> ...The activity on the GitHub PRs and issues is, I suspect,
>> overlooked as one of the key places
>>> where technical discussions are happening...
>> 
>> Yes, probably - exposing that here would be fantastic.
>> 
> 
> One can subscribe/search iss...@openwhisk.apache.org that's where all of
> the github emails go.  Simply document that?
> 
> Arguably in an ideal world issue/PR creation would trigger an email to dev
> and all the rest of the emails could stay on issues, but I suspect that
> isn't a supported out-of-the-box configuration

A weekly or daily email with a set of links to all the newly opened PR this 
week/day would be nice. As you say, I'm pretty sure this isn't available out of 
the box.

Regards,

Rob

Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[Rodric Rabbah]

On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 10:41 AM Bertrand Delacretaz 
wrote:

> Maybe running a query on all repositories for items with recent
> activity or with a specific label and sending the results here would
> help expose that?
>

Do you mean as a one off?

The stats per repository are available on github as project "insights"
For example, in the last month, from
https://github.com/apache/incubator-openwhisk/pulse/monthly

   Excluding merges, *13 authors* have pushed *31 commits* to master and *31
commits* to all branches. On master, *78 files* have changed and there have
been *2,762* *additions* and *434* *deletions*
.


There were 31 merged pull requests, 10 new pull requests, 15 closed issues
and 19 new issues.

Additionally -- All our issues and prs activity is sent to our issues@
mailing list. You can search for comments, new issues, new pull requests,
comments on both of these etc. there as well. That should span all our
repositories.

-r

Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[David P Grove]

Bertrand Delacretaz  wrote on 03/19/2019 10:40:51
AM:

> From: Bertrand Delacretaz 
> To: OpenWhisk Dev 
> Date: 03/19/2019 10:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator
>
> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 3:34 PM Rob Allen  wrote:
> > ...The activity on the GitHub PRs and issues is, I suspect,
> overlooked as one of the key places
> > where technical discussions are happening...
>
> Yes, probably - exposing that here would be fantastic.
>

One can subscribe/search iss...@openwhisk.apache.org that's where all of
the github emails go.  Simply document that?

Arguably in an ideal world issue/PR creation would trigger an email to dev
and all the rest of the emails could stay on issues, but I suspect that
isn't a supported out-of-the-box configuration

--dave

Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[Rodric Rabbah]

Thank you Bertrand for the input.

With respect to Slack and how this project uses it, I think I can make the
case that it fits the criteria you quoted from Mark Thomas.

> ...The criteria that the ASF looks for in communication channels used by
projects are (in no particular order):

> - open to all

Our self-signup is fully automated and open to all. Unlike other projects
which send requests to moderators, anyone with an email id can register to
join our Slack and is admitted automatically. Our #general channel ---
which is where the majority of public discussion happens --- links to the
project's code of conduct as well.

> - asynchronous

Slack does the give the impression of synchronicity which is why I think
it's probably preferred --- As in, if one has a question and wants an
answer quickly, it's more likely they will try slack (or gasp, twitter).
But there is often asynchronous communication also happening on Slack and i
think it's detrimental to people's well-being to treat Slack as a fully
synchronous medium. Anyway, I'm tending toward different topics now but I
just wanted to point out that there are plenty of cases in our Slack where
questions aren't always answered "immediately" and might take a few hours
or even a day.

> - available off-line

This is perhaps too nuanced -- the Slack client will generally allow you to
read messages when disconnected, and if you receive Slack notifications by
email, and your email is also available offline, then it also works. Is
that satisfactory? The daily digests we've automated also provide another
way to consume the messages off-line.

> - full history

We only recently started sending our daily slack digests to our Apache dev
list. But I can replay the digests from the very first day we started using
the current Slack for the project. If there's value in that, I'm happy to
do it, but perhaps consolidate the historical digest into a single large
email to avoid a thousand emails being sent (or use a different target list
to reduce the noise).

> - searchable
> - archived on ASF controlled systems

The Slack daily digests are searchable and archived in the way our dev list
is searchable.

> - low bandwidth / minimal system requirements ...

Heh - I guess there are some stories about Slack being a CPU hog sometimes.

To your comment that:
Slack is central to the project and one cannot really get involved
without being active there "all the time".

I think it will serve us well to avoid this misconception --- certainly
that is NOT the case in my opinion and no one should be expected to be
active in Slack all the time. Thank you for the advice for establishing
better guidelines on the communication channels, I very much like the
suggestions and support us addressing these concerns.

-r

Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[Michele Sciabarra]

>With my incubation mentor hat on, I think the role of the project's
>communications channels needs to be clarified before graduating. It is
>easy to get the impression that the vast majority of the project's
>business happens on Slack - maybe it's not really the case but I think
>having guidelines for how to use the various communications channels
>will help convince the Incubator that the project is following the
>Apache principles of inclusive communication.

I have seen other projects (I would say almost all) that use an online chat for 
communication.
What I have seen here though, and I have not seen in other projects, is the 
wonderful thing that Rodric did forwarding the slack digest to the mailing 
list.  My feeling is that this thing makes very easy to follow what is going on 
in the project without having to hook in slack frequently.

Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[Markus Thömmes]

+1.

Make it happen!

Am Di., 19. März 2019 um 07:02 Uhr schrieb Michele Sciabarra <
mich...@sciabarra.com>:

> Actually it looks to me pretty unusual that a project of this size has not
> yet graduated.
>
> --
>  Michele Sciabarra
>  mich...@sciabarra.com
>
>
>
> - Original message -
> From: David P Grove 
> To: OpenWhisk Dev 
> Subject: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator
> Date: Friday, March 15, 2019 11:06 PM
>
>
>
> I'd like to kick off a discussion to assess the project's readiness for
> graduation from the incubator.
>
> Per Rodric's recent stats [1], the community has developed nicely in terms
> of code contribution.
>
> We've released a number of software components following the Apache release
> process. We are in the midst of making our first "uber-release" across all
> of our sub-components (expect at least 2 voting threads next week).
>
> Overall I think the community is active. Communication on the project
> slack is frequent (avg of >160 messages a day) and is now digested daily to
> the dev list. (See [2] for stats).
>
> There are a couple procedural tasks we still need to complete, foremost
> being the formal transfer of the OpenWhisk trademarks from IBM to the ASF.
> But I think we can assume that these tasks will be completed and start
> considering graduation in parallel.
>
> Please share your thoughts,
>
> --dave
>
> [1]
>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b2217c61caad5c7a0369699d06d44e5cf688d3cba982e354a45b8c78@%3Cdev.openwhisk.apache.org%3E
> [2]
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=103091999
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[Michele Sciabarra]

Actually it looks to me pretty unusual that a project of this size has not yet 
graduated.

-- 
 Michele Sciabarra
 mich...@sciabarra.com



- Original message -
From: David P Grove 
To: OpenWhisk Dev 
Subject: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator
Date: Friday, March 15, 2019 11:06 PM



I'd like to kick off a discussion to assess the project's readiness for
graduation from the incubator.

Per Rodric's recent stats [1], the community has developed nicely in terms
of code contribution.

We've released a number of software components following the Apache release
process. We are in the midst of making our first "uber-release" across all
of our sub-components (expect at least 2 voting threads next week).

Overall I think the community is active. Communication on the project
slack is frequent (avg of >160 messages a day) and is now digested daily to
the dev list. (See [2] for stats).

There are a couple procedural tasks we still need to complete, foremost
being the formal transfer of the OpenWhisk trademarks from IBM to the ASF.
But I think we can assume that these tasks will be completed and start
considering graduation in parallel.

Please share your thoughts,

--dave

[1]
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b2217c61caad5c7a0369699d06d44e5cf688d3cba982e354a45b8c78@%3Cdev.openwhisk.apache.org%3E
[2]
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=103091999

Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[Ying Chun Guo]

+1. I totally agree.
I think the community is mature enough and ready to graduate.
Thank you for bringing this for discussion.

Best regards
Ying Chun Guo (Daisy)


-"David P Grove"  wrote: -
To: "OpenWhisk Dev" 
From: "David P Grove" 
Date: 03/16/2019 06:06AM
Subject: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator



I'd like to kick off a discussion to assess the project's readiness for
graduation from the incubator.

Per Rodric's recent stats [1], the community has developed nicely in terms
of code contribution.

We've released a number of software components following the Apache release
process.  We are in the midst of making our first "uber-release" across all
of our sub-components (expect at least 2 voting threads next week).

Overall I think the community is active.  Communication on the project
slack is frequent (avg of >160 messages a day) and is now digested daily to
the dev list. (See [2] for stats).

There are a couple procedural tasks we still need to complete, foremost
being the formal transfer of the OpenWhisk trademarks from IBM to the ASF.
But I think we can assume that these tasks will be completed and start
considering graduation in parallel.

Please share your thoughts,

--dave

[1]
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.apache.org_thread.html_b2217c61caad5c7a0369699d06d44e5cf688d3cba982e354a45b8c78-40-253Cdev.openwhisk.apache.org-253E=DwIFAg=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg=V_NQebMEsahq0wRsMMLN8VHG-pcqPRpdHygvo4rmK4o=GRIRMIoZuK8tbK6TZq8368Lj7uKxlj6ZkR-yP7hl7RM=S0KcLa9uT60OMjsq821jZOOVIEEzd13okF2v1_od4-w=
[2]
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_pages_viewpage.action-3FpageId-3D103091999=DwIFAg=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg=V_NQebMEsahq0wRsMMLN8VHG-pcqPRpdHygvo4rmK4o=GRIRMIoZuK8tbK6TZq8368Lj7uKxlj6ZkR-yP7hl7RM=gGuNq0zh4G0CUDQbnWUCjhTMEF_6Q2m0hkweVxzQO6k=

Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[Justin Halsall]

+1 couldn’t agree more! Time to graduate, OpenWhisk is ready!

> On Mar 18, 2019, at 4:14 PM, Rodric Rabbah  wrote:
> 
> It's great to see how far the project has grown, with 217 contributors, and
> may from outside ibm & adobe --- I think it's clear this project has grown
> beyond the founding members.
> 
> BTW, we have two ongoing release votes, and we should have a lot of votes
> given all the enthusiasm about graduation ;)
> 
> -r
> 
> 
> On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 3:11 PM Priti Desai  wrote:
> 
>> +1, this is huge and very excited for this. We all have spent lot of
>> effort on making OpenWhisk an awesome serverless technology and build a
>> great community around it. Its time to graduate.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Cheers
>> Priti
>> 
>> Image Credit:
>> *https://www.vectorstock.com/royalty-free-vector/graduate-cap-isometric-3d-icon-vector-6971581*
>> <https://www.vectorstock.com/royalty-free-vector/graduate-cap-isometric-3d-icon-vector-6971581>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From:Dascalita Dragos 
>> To:dev@openwhisk.apache.org
>> Date:03/18/2019 11:24 AM
>> Subject:Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator
>> --
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Huge +1 from my side as well.
>> I couldn't agree more. I think the project not only has momentum, but it's
>> also used in production environments and it's well tested and stable.
>> 
>> In addition, I believe multiple parties have long term visions with
>> enhancements, which IMO I see it as a positive indicator that this project
>> will continue to keep the momentum going.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 11:03 AM James Thomas 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> +100 on this.
>>> 
>>> I think the project community has reached a level of maturity that would
>>> enable us to graduate according to the incubator guidelines. The level of
>>> community contributions on the mailing list and the slack channel are
>>> indicative of the succes of the project. We have a broad number of
>>> committers from different backgrounds and interests. From a technical
>>> perspective, I think the platform is also relatively stable and has
>>> multiple production users that have been running over multiple years.
>>> 
>>> On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 at 22:06, David P Grove  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I'd like to kick off a discussion to assess the project's readiness for
>>>> graduation from the incubator.
>>>> 
>>>> Per Rodric's recent stats [1], the community has developed nicely in
>>> terms
>>>> of code contribution.
>>>> 
>>>> We've released a number of software components following the Apache
>>> release
>>>> process.  We are in the midst of making our first "uber-release" across
>>> all
>>>> of our sub-components (expect at least 2 voting threads next week).
>>>> 
>>>> Overall I think the community is active.  Communication on the project
>>>> slack is frequent (avg of >160 messages a day) and is now digested
>> daily
>>> to
>>>> the dev list. (See [2] for stats).
>>>> 
>>>> There are a couple procedural tasks we still need to complete, foremost
>>>> being the formal transfer of the OpenWhisk trademarks from IBM to the
>>> ASF.
>>>> But I think we can assume that these tasks will be completed and start
>>>> considering graduation in parallel.
>>>> 
>>>> Please share your thoughts,
>>>> 
>>>> --dave
>>>> 
>>>> [1]
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b2217c61caad5c7a0369699d06d44e5cf688d3cba982e354a45b8c78@%3Cdev.openwhisk.apache.org%3E
>>>> [2]
>>>> 
>>> 
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=103091999
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Regards,
>>> James Thomas
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[Rodric Rabbah]

It's great to see how far the project has grown, with 217 contributors, and
may from outside ibm & adobe --- I think it's clear this project has grown
beyond the founding members.

BTW, we have two ongoing release votes, and we should have a lot of votes
given all the enthusiasm about graduation ;)

-r


On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 3:11 PM Priti Desai  wrote:

> +1, this is huge and very excited for this. We all have spent lot of
> effort on making OpenWhisk an awesome serverless technology and build a
> great community around it. Its time to graduate.
>
>
>
> Cheers
> Priti
>
> Image Credit:
> *https://www.vectorstock.com/royalty-free-vector/graduate-cap-isometric-3d-icon-vector-6971581*
> <https://www.vectorstock.com/royalty-free-vector/graduate-cap-isometric-3d-icon-vector-6971581>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From:Dascalita Dragos 
> To:dev@openwhisk.apache.org
> Date:    03/18/2019 11:24 AM
> Subject:Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator
> --
>
>
>
> Huge +1 from my side as well.
> I couldn't agree more. I think the project not only has momentum, but it's
> also used in production environments and it's well tested and stable.
>
> In addition, I believe multiple parties have long term visions with
> enhancements, which IMO I see it as a positive indicator that this project
> will continue to keep the momentum going.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 11:03 AM James Thomas 
> wrote:
>
> > +100 on this.
> >
> > I think the project community has reached a level of maturity that would
> > enable us to graduate according to the incubator guidelines. The level of
> > community contributions on the mailing list and the slack channel are
> > indicative of the succes of the project. We have a broad number of
> > committers from different backgrounds and interests. From a technical
> > perspective, I think the platform is also relatively stable and has
> > multiple production users that have been running over multiple years.
> >
> > On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 at 22:06, David P Grove  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > I'd like to kick off a discussion to assess the project's readiness for
> > > graduation from the incubator.
> > >
> > > Per Rodric's recent stats [1], the community has developed nicely in
> > terms
> > > of code contribution.
> > >
> > > We've released a number of software components following the Apache
> > release
> > > process.  We are in the midst of making our first "uber-release" across
> > all
> > > of our sub-components (expect at least 2 voting threads next week).
> > >
> > > Overall I think the community is active.  Communication on the project
> > > slack is frequent (avg of >160 messages a day) and is now digested
> daily
> > to
> > > the dev list. (See [2] for stats).
> > >
> > > There are a couple procedural tasks we still need to complete, foremost
> > > being the formal transfer of the OpenWhisk trademarks from IBM to the
> > ASF.
> > > But I think we can assume that these tasks will be completed and start
> > > considering graduation in parallel.
> > >
> > > Please share your thoughts,
> > >
> > > --dave
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b2217c61caad5c7a0369699d06d44e5cf688d3cba982e354a45b8c78@%3Cdev.openwhisk.apache.org%3E
> > > [2]
> > >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=103091999
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > James Thomas
> >
>
>
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[Priti Desai]

+1, this is huge and very excited for this. We all have spent lot of 
effort on making OpenWhisk an awesome serverless technology and build a 
great community around it. Its time to graduate.



Cheers
Priti

Image Credit: 
https://www.vectorstock.com/royalty-free-vector/graduate-cap-isometric-3d-icon-vector-6971581
 







From:   Dascalita Dragos 
To: dev@openwhisk.apache.org
Date:   03/18/2019 11:24 AM
Subject:Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator



Huge +1 from my side as well.
I couldn't agree more. I think the project not only has momentum, but it's
also used in production environments and it's well tested and stable.

In addition, I believe multiple parties have long term visions with
enhancements, which IMO I see it as a positive indicator that this project
will continue to keep the momentum going.



On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 11:03 AM James Thomas  
wrote:

> +100 on this.
>
> I think the project community has reached a level of maturity that would
> enable us to graduate according to the incubator guidelines. The level 
of
> community contributions on the mailing list and the slack channel are
> indicative of the succes of the project. We have a broad number of
> committers from different backgrounds and interests. From a technical
> perspective, I think the platform is also relatively stable and has
> multiple production users that have been running over multiple years.
>
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 at 22:06, David P Grove  wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I'd like to kick off a discussion to assess the project's readiness 
for
> > graduation from the incubator.
> >
> > Per Rodric's recent stats [1], the community has developed nicely in
> terms
> > of code contribution.
> >
> > We've released a number of software components following the Apache
> release
> > process.  We are in the midst of making our first "uber-release" 
across
> all
> > of our sub-components (expect at least 2 voting threads next week).
> >
> > Overall I think the community is active.  Communication on the project
> > slack is frequent (avg of >160 messages a day) and is now digested 
daily
> to
> > the dev list. (See [2] for stats).
> >
> > There are a couple procedural tasks we still need to complete, 
foremost
> > being the formal transfer of the OpenWhisk trademarks from IBM to the
> ASF.
> > But I think we can assume that these tasks will be completed and start
> > considering graduation in parallel.
> >
> > Please share your thoughts,
> >
> > --dave
> >
> > [1]
> >
> >
> 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.apache.org_thread.html_b2217c61caad5c7a0369699d06d44e5cf688d3cba982e354a45b8c78-40-253Cdev.openwhisk.apache.org-253E=DwIBaQ=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg=6V3FXFwHvE0SFE3N4Rk7-rlMhS2xkaqR1AlgZ0xtvKY=-NLjIOkRxoebj11s5IFHENYRhHi0otG9GAaepSpVFF4=8OuCPb9UDglbPmqWGyYN1zV9TV5f21T0F0JZlk85K6A=

> > [2]
> >
> 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_pages_viewpage.action-3FpageId-3D103091999=DwIBaQ=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg=6V3FXFwHvE0SFE3N4Rk7-rlMhS2xkaqR1AlgZ0xtvKY=-NLjIOkRxoebj11s5IFHENYRhHi0otG9GAaepSpVFF4=4-uehakJsYT0XP5YQOO72mYYIZGHxlpOkzXw3hBCEck=

> >
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> James Thomas
>

Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[Dascalita Dragos]

Huge +1 from my side as well.
I couldn't agree more. I think the project not only has momentum, but it's
also used in production environments and it's well tested and stable.

In addition, I believe multiple parties have long term visions with
enhancements, which IMO I see it as a positive indicator that this project
will continue to keep the momentum going.



On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 11:03 AM James Thomas  wrote:

> +100 on this.
>
> I think the project community has reached a level of maturity that would
> enable us to graduate according to the incubator guidelines. The level of
> community contributions on the mailing list and the slack channel are
> indicative of the succes of the project. We have a broad number of
> committers from different backgrounds and interests. From a technical
> perspective, I think the platform is also relatively stable and has
> multiple production users that have been running over multiple years.
>
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 at 22:06, David P Grove  wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I'd like to kick off a discussion to assess the project's readiness for
> > graduation from the incubator.
> >
> > Per Rodric's recent stats [1], the community has developed nicely in
> terms
> > of code contribution.
> >
> > We've released a number of software components following the Apache
> release
> > process.  We are in the midst of making our first "uber-release" across
> all
> > of our sub-components (expect at least 2 voting threads next week).
> >
> > Overall I think the community is active.  Communication on the project
> > slack is frequent (avg of >160 messages a day) and is now digested daily
> to
> > the dev list. (See [2] for stats).
> >
> > There are a couple procedural tasks we still need to complete, foremost
> > being the formal transfer of the OpenWhisk trademarks from IBM to the
> ASF.
> > But I think we can assume that these tasks will be completed and start
> > considering graduation in parallel.
> >
> > Please share your thoughts,
> >
> > --dave
> >
> > [1]
> >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b2217c61caad5c7a0369699d06d44e5cf688d3cba982e354a45b8c78@%3Cdev.openwhisk.apache.org%3E
> > [2]
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=103091999
> >
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> James Thomas
>

Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[James Thomas]

+100 on this.

I think the project community has reached a level of maturity that would
enable us to graduate according to the incubator guidelines. The level of
community contributions on the mailing list and the slack channel are
indicative of the succes of the project. We have a broad number of
committers from different backgrounds and interests. From a technical
perspective, I think the platform is also relatively stable and has
multiple production users that have been running over multiple years.

On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 at 22:06, David P Grove  wrote:

>
>
> I'd like to kick off a discussion to assess the project's readiness for
> graduation from the incubator.
>
> Per Rodric's recent stats [1], the community has developed nicely in terms
> of code contribution.
>
> We've released a number of software components following the Apache release
> process.  We are in the midst of making our first "uber-release" across all
> of our sub-components (expect at least 2 voting threads next week).
>
> Overall I think the community is active.  Communication on the project
> slack is frequent (avg of >160 messages a day) and is now digested daily to
> the dev list. (See [2] for stats).
>
> There are a couple procedural tasks we still need to complete, foremost
> being the formal transfer of the OpenWhisk trademarks from IBM to the ASF.
> But I think we can assume that these tasks will be completed and start
> considering graduation in parallel.
>
> Please share your thoughts,
>
> --dave
>
> [1]
>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b2217c61caad5c7a0369699d06d44e5cf688d3cba982e354a45b8c78@%3Cdev.openwhisk.apache.org%3E
> [2]
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=103091999
>


-- 
Regards,
James Thomas

Re: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[Vincent S Hou]

I totally root for the graduation. To me, there is no blocker for OpenWhisk 
graduation under Apache, except something we can improve.

I have made some progress in terms of Jenkins pipeline build for OpenWhisk. 
Three of the VMs dedicated to OpenWhisk have been used as an distributed 
environment for openwhisk to deploy and test: 
https://builds.apache.org/view/O/view/OpenWhisk/job/openwhisk-test-pipeline/.

I am not sure if everyone can access this link and manually launch Jenkins 
build for OpenWhisk. I hope folks can give a test. This is the only thing I 
hope can be done before graduation.
 
Best wishes.
Vincent Hou (侯胜博)

Advisory Software Engineer, OpenWhisk Contributor, Open Technology, IBM Cloud

Notes ID: Vincent S Hou/Raleigh/IBM, E-mail: s...@us.ibm.com,
Phone: +1(919)254-7182
Address: 4205 S Miami Blvd (Cornwallis Drive), Durham, NC 27703, United States

-"David P Grove"  wrote: -
To: "OpenWhisk Dev" 
From: "David P Grove" 
Date: 03/15/2019 06:06PM
Subject: [DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator


I'd like to kick off a discussion to assess the project's readiness for
graduation from the incubator.

Per Rodric's recent stats [1], the community has developed nicely in terms
of code contribution.

We've released a number of software components following the Apache release
process.  We are in the midst of making our first "uber-release" across all
of our sub-components (expect at least 2 voting threads next week).

Overall I think the community is active.  Communication on the project
slack is frequent (avg of >160 messages a day) and is now digested daily to
the dev list. (See [2] for stats).

There are a couple procedural tasks we still need to complete, foremost
being the formal transfer of the OpenWhisk trademarks from IBM to the ASF.
But I think we can assume that these tasks will be completed and start
considering graduation in parallel.

Please share your thoughts,

--dave

[1]
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.apache.org_thread.html_b2217c61caad5c7a0369699d06d44e5cf688d3cba982e354a45b8c78-40-253Cdev.openwhisk.apache.org-253E=DwIFAg=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg=LUNmCHjmrhrkjp9ZF9fhwg=29zSYpg--7xm2FpdH67pa8-BViED6kMm4TFRG8UbJZ8=6-QfzwikY26pJYG1gzQdCEF8M9XIaxwgo_ok7gWLsZ4=
[2]
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__cwiki.apache.org_confluence_pages_viewpage.action-3FpageId-3D103091999=DwIFAg=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg=LUNmCHjmrhrkjp9ZF9fhwg=29zSYpg--7xm2FpdH67pa8-BViED6kMm4TFRG8UbJZ8=ERvvltgFZD20SHYfoI2C56IhYORzsm7IxA2FJbLZk9Q=

[DISCUSS] graduation from the incubator

[David P Grove]

I'd like to kick off a discussion to assess the project's readiness for
graduation from the incubator.

Per Rodric's recent stats [1], the community has developed nicely in terms
of code contribution.

We've released a number of software components following the Apache release
process.  We are in the midst of making our first "uber-release" across all
of our sub-components (expect at least 2 voting threads next week).

Overall I think the community is active.  Communication on the project
slack is frequent (avg of >160 messages a day) and is now digested daily to
the dev list. (See [2] for stats).

There are a couple procedural tasks we still need to complete, foremost
being the formal transfer of the OpenWhisk trademarks from IBM to the ASF.
But I think we can assume that these tasks will be completed and start
considering graduation in parallel.

Please share your thoughts,

--dave

[1]
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b2217c61caad5c7a0369699d06d44e5cf688d3cba982e354a45b8c78@%3Cdev.openwhisk.apache.org%3E
[2]
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=103091999