Re: [DISCUSSION] Pulsar maturity model assessment

[Matteo Merli]

Thanks both David and Taylor for the support. I think too that it would be
good to have few mentors continuing being involved in the project.

Once the "contributing" PR is merged and the website is updated (we're
waiting on Jenkins to come back up at this point), then I will start the
VOTE thread on this list to formalize the Pulsar community position.

Matteo

On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 4:39 PM P. Taylor Goetz  wrote:

> For the record, I’m supportive of graduation for Pulsar at this point.
>
> I think the branding debacle and the maturity model self-assessment has
> forced some good introspection on the part of the PPMC in terms of what’s
> expected of them as a TLP, and I think they are ready.
>
> I would like to see a mentor or two continue with the project
> post-graduation.
>
> -Taylor
>
> > On Aug 30, 2018, at 6:51 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> >
> > +1 from me as well.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dave
> >
> >> On Aug 30, 2018, at 2:54 PM, P. Taylor Goetz  wrote:
> >>
> >> +1from me. Nice work.
> >>
> >> -Taylor
> >>
> >>> On Aug 30, 2018, at 5:32 PM, Matteo Merli  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Dave,
> >>>
> >>> I have reworded a bit the "becoming committer" section by adding this
> >>> paragraph:
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>> Every new committer has to be proposed by a current committer and then
> >>> privately discussed and voted in by the members of the Pulsar PMC.
> >>> For details about this process and for candidate requirements see the
> >>> general [Apache guidelines for assessing new candidates for
> committership](
> >>> https://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html).
> >>> Candidates prepare for their nomination as committer by contributing
> >>> to the Pulsar project and its community, by acting according to the
> >>> [Apache Way](https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html),
> >>> and by generally following the path from
> >>> [contributor to committer](https://community.apache.org/contributors/)
> >>> for Apache projects.
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>> This is the last commit diff
> >>>
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/pull/2459/commits/0bef7eb7f7687ef5d1574f4fb58ff9a69d8a31fa
> >>>
> >>> Please take a look,
> >>>
> >>> thanks,
> >>> Matteo
> >>>
>  On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:06 AM Dave Fisher 
> wrote:
> 
>  Hi -
> 
>  The explanation should be more carefully worded. Contributors do not
> self
>  nominate themselves. The PMC will notice contributors who have proven
>  themselves. A discussion follows on private@ to avoid any
> embarrassment.
> >>>
> >>> Assuming that the VOTE passes if it is for PMC then a NOTICE is given
> to
>  the IPMC or the Board. This is a 72 hour LAZY ACK in the extremely
> rare
>  case someone knows something that is bad. You don’t need to explain
> these
>  details. Once the new Committer and/or PMC has been elected. The PMC
> will
>  contact them off list to make sure that they accept. This is followed
> by an
>  announcement on the dev@ list. The whole point here is to avoid
> public
>  embarrassment which could cause contributors to leave.
> 
>  For example, the DISCUSSION (on private@) could be like so:
>  1. [DISCUSS] Jane Doe for PMC - she’s done some significant work and
> it is
>  all high quality. She is good to work with and always helpful with
> users on
>  the mailing list.
>  2. RE: - She’s great +1
>  3. RE2: - I’m not sure as she’s only been active for one month. Let’s
> wait
>  a few months to see if her contributions are sustained.
>  … two months,
>  4. [DISCUSS] Jane Doe for PMC/Committer - it’s been two months and
> she’s
>  still helping with code and users. Is it time.
>  5. RE: yes!
>  6. RE2: yes!
>  … 72 hours
>  7. [VOTE] ….
>  … 72 hours
>  8. [NOTICE]
>  … 72 hours
>  9. Invite Jane
>  10. Jane is surprised and accepts
>  11. Announce on Dev@ and maybe twitter.
> 
>  So, you can see ways to tweak your language.
> 
>  Regards,
>  Dave
> 
> > On Aug 29, 2018, at 12:16 AM, Matteo Merli 
>  wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 5:50 PM Dave Fisher 
>  wrote:
> >
> >> This is very detailed and looks good with one important omission.
> >>
> >> How does one go on from being a contributor to committer / PMC
> status?
> >> There should be a description about that.
> >>
> >> Please discuss!
> >>
> >
> > That is a very good point. I have added a couple of sections to the
> > "Contributing" page in the PR:
> > * https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/pull/2459
> > * Preview link:
> >
> 
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/blob/0515a9a12a77ca6ffdc8587125e21a32cdb61291/site2/website/contributing.md
> >
> > Also reporting it here for convenience:
> >
> >
> 
> ---
> > ## Becoming a committer
> 

Re: [DISCUSSION] Pulsar maturity model assessment

[P. Taylor Goetz]

For the record, I’m supportive of graduation for Pulsar at this point.

I think the branding debacle and the maturity model self-assessment has forced 
some good introspection on the part of the PPMC in terms of what’s expected of 
them as a TLP, and I think they are ready.

I would like to see a mentor or two continue with the project post-graduation.

-Taylor

> On Aug 30, 2018, at 6:51 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> 
> +1 from me as well.
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
>> On Aug 30, 2018, at 2:54 PM, P. Taylor Goetz  wrote:
>> 
>> +1from me. Nice work.
>> 
>> -Taylor
>> 
>>> On Aug 30, 2018, at 5:32 PM, Matteo Merli  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dave,
>>> 
>>> I have reworded a bit the "becoming committer" section by adding this
>>> paragraph:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Every new committer has to be proposed by a current committer and then
>>> privately discussed and voted in by the members of the Pulsar PMC.
>>> For details about this process and for candidate requirements see the
>>> general [Apache guidelines for assessing new candidates for committership](
>>> https://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html).
>>> Candidates prepare for their nomination as committer by contributing
>>> to the Pulsar project and its community, by acting according to the
>>> [Apache Way](https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html),
>>> and by generally following the path from
>>> [contributor to committer](https://community.apache.org/contributors/)
>>> for Apache projects.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This is the last commit diff
>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/pull/2459/commits/0bef7eb7f7687ef5d1574f4fb58ff9a69d8a31fa
>>> 
>>> Please take a look,
>>> 
>>> thanks,
>>> Matteo
>>> 
 On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:06 AM Dave Fisher  wrote:
 
 Hi -
 
 The explanation should be more carefully worded. Contributors do not self
 nominate themselves. The PMC will notice contributors who have proven
 themselves. A discussion follows on private@ to avoid any embarrassment.
>>> 
>>> Assuming that the VOTE passes if it is for PMC then a NOTICE is given to
 the IPMC or the Board. This is a 72 hour LAZY ACK in the extremely rare
 case someone knows something that is bad. You don’t need to explain these
 details. Once the new Committer and/or PMC has been elected. The PMC will
 contact them off list to make sure that they accept. This is followed by an
 announcement on the dev@ list. The whole point here is to avoid public
 embarrassment which could cause contributors to leave.
 
 For example, the DISCUSSION (on private@) could be like so:
 1. [DISCUSS] Jane Doe for PMC - she’s done some significant work and it is
 all high quality. She is good to work with and always helpful with users on
 the mailing list.
 2. RE: - She’s great +1
 3. RE2: - I’m not sure as she’s only been active for one month. Let’s wait
 a few months to see if her contributions are sustained.
 … two months,
 4. [DISCUSS] Jane Doe for PMC/Committer - it’s been two months and she’s
 still helping with code and users. Is it time.
 5. RE: yes!
 6. RE2: yes!
 … 72 hours
 7. [VOTE] ….
 … 72 hours
 8. [NOTICE]
 … 72 hours
 9. Invite Jane
 10. Jane is surprised and accepts
 11. Announce on Dev@ and maybe twitter.
 
 So, you can see ways to tweak your language.
 
 Regards,
 Dave
 
> On Aug 29, 2018, at 12:16 AM, Matteo Merli 
 wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 5:50 PM Dave Fisher 
 wrote:
> 
>> This is very detailed and looks good with one important omission.
>> 
>> How does one go on from being a contributor to committer / PMC status?
>> There should be a description about that.
>> 
>> Please discuss!
>> 
> 
> That is a very good point. I have added a couple of sections to the
> "Contributing" page in the PR:
> * https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/pull/2459
> * Preview link:
> 
 https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/blob/0515a9a12a77ca6ffdc8587125e21a32cdb61291/site2/website/contributing.md
> 
> Also reporting it here for convenience:
> 
> 
 ---
> ## Becoming a committer
> 
> Committers are community members that have write access to the project’s
> repositories, i.e., they can modify the code, documentation, and website
> by themselves and also accept other contributions.
> 
> There is no strict protocol for becoming a committer. Candidates for new
> committers are typically people that are active contributors and
> community members.
> 
> Being an active community member means participating on mailing list
> discussions, helping to answer questions, verifying release candidates,
> being respectful towards others, and following the meritocratic
> principles of community 

Re: [DISCUSSION] Pulsar maturity model assessment

[Dave Fisher]

+1 from me as well.

Regards,
Dave

> On Aug 30, 2018, at 2:54 PM, P. Taylor Goetz  wrote:
> 
> +1from me. Nice work.
> 
> -Taylor
> 
>> On Aug 30, 2018, at 5:32 PM, Matteo Merli  wrote:
>> 
>> Dave,
>> 
>> I have reworded a bit the "becoming committer" section by adding this
>> paragraph:
>> 
>> 
>> Every new committer has to be proposed by a current committer and then
>> privately discussed and voted in by the members of the Pulsar PMC.
>> For details about this process and for candidate requirements see the
>> general [Apache guidelines for assessing new candidates for committership](
>> https://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html).
>> Candidates prepare for their nomination as committer by contributing
>> to the Pulsar project and its community, by acting according to the
>> [Apache Way](https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html),
>> and by generally following the path from
>> [contributor to committer](https://community.apache.org/contributors/)
>> for Apache projects.
>> 
>> 
>> This is the last commit diff
>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/pull/2459/commits/0bef7eb7f7687ef5d1574f4fb58ff9a69d8a31fa
>> 
>> Please take a look,
>> 
>> thanks,
>> Matteo
>> 
>>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:06 AM Dave Fisher  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi -
>>> 
>>> The explanation should be more carefully worded. Contributors do not self
>>> nominate themselves. The PMC will notice contributors who have proven
>>> themselves. A discussion follows on private@ to avoid any embarrassment.
>> 
>> Assuming that the VOTE passes if it is for PMC then a NOTICE is given to
>>> the IPMC or the Board. This is a 72 hour LAZY ACK in the extremely rare
>>> case someone knows something that is bad. You don’t need to explain these
>>> details. Once the new Committer and/or PMC has been elected. The PMC will
>>> contact them off list to make sure that they accept. This is followed by an
>>> announcement on the dev@ list. The whole point here is to avoid public
>>> embarrassment which could cause contributors to leave.
>>> 
>>> For example, the DISCUSSION (on private@) could be like so:
>>> 1. [DISCUSS] Jane Doe for PMC - she’s done some significant work and it is
>>> all high quality. She is good to work with and always helpful with users on
>>> the mailing list.
>>> 2. RE: - She’s great +1
>>> 3. RE2: - I’m not sure as she’s only been active for one month. Let’s wait
>>> a few months to see if her contributions are sustained.
>>> … two months,
>>> 4. [DISCUSS] Jane Doe for PMC/Committer - it’s been two months and she’s
>>> still helping with code and users. Is it time.
>>> 5. RE: yes!
>>> 6. RE2: yes!
>>> … 72 hours
>>> 7. [VOTE] ….
>>> … 72 hours
>>> 8. [NOTICE]
>>> … 72 hours
>>> 9. Invite Jane
>>> 10. Jane is surprised and accepts
>>> 11. Announce on Dev@ and maybe twitter.
>>> 
>>> So, you can see ways to tweak your language.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>>> 
 On Aug 29, 2018, at 12:16 AM, Matteo Merli 
>>> wrote:
 
 On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 5:50 PM Dave Fisher 
>>> wrote:
 
> This is very detailed and looks good with one important omission.
> 
> How does one go on from being a contributor to committer / PMC status?
> There should be a description about that.
> 
> Please discuss!
> 
 
 That is a very good point. I have added a couple of sections to the
 "Contributing" page in the PR:
 * https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/pull/2459
 * Preview link:
 
>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/blob/0515a9a12a77ca6ffdc8587125e21a32cdb61291/site2/website/contributing.md
 
 Also reporting it here for convenience:
 
 
>>> ---
 ## Becoming a committer
 
 Committers are community members that have write access to the project’s
 repositories, i.e., they can modify the code, documentation, and website
 by themselves and also accept other contributions.
 
 There is no strict protocol for becoming a committer. Candidates for new
 committers are typically people that are active contributors and
 community members.
 
 Being an active community member means participating on mailing list
 discussions, helping to answer questions, verifying release candidates,
 being respectful towards others, and following the meritocratic
 principles of community management. Since the
 [Apache Way](https://www.apache.org/foundation/governance/)
 has a strong focus on the project community, this part is very important.
 
 Of course, contributing code and documentation to the project is
 important as well. A good way to start is contributing improvements, new
 features, or bug fixes. You need to show that you take responsibility
 for the code that you contribute, add tests and documentation, and help
 maintaining it.
 
 Candidates for new committers are suggested by 

Re: [DISCUSSION] Pulsar maturity model assessment

[P. Taylor Goetz]

+1from me. Nice work.

-Taylor

> On Aug 30, 2018, at 5:32 PM, Matteo Merli  wrote:
> 
> Dave,
> 
> I have reworded a bit the "becoming committer" section by adding this
> paragraph:
> 
> 
> Every new committer has to be proposed by a current committer and then
> privately discussed and voted in by the members of the Pulsar PMC.
> For details about this process and for candidate requirements see the
> general [Apache guidelines for assessing new candidates for committership](
> https://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html).
> Candidates prepare for their nomination as committer by contributing
> to the Pulsar project and its community, by acting according to the
> [Apache Way](https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html),
> and by generally following the path from
> [contributor to committer](https://community.apache.org/contributors/)
> for Apache projects.
> 
> 
> This is the last commit diff
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/pull/2459/commits/0bef7eb7f7687ef5d1574f4fb58ff9a69d8a31fa
> 
> Please take a look,
> 
> thanks,
> Matteo
> 
>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:06 AM Dave Fisher  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi -
>> 
>> The explanation should be more carefully worded. Contributors do not self
>> nominate themselves. The PMC will notice contributors who have proven
>> themselves. A discussion follows on private@ to avoid any embarrassment.
> 
> Assuming that the VOTE passes if it is for PMC then a NOTICE is given to
>> the IPMC or the Board. This is a 72 hour LAZY ACK in the extremely rare
>> case someone knows something that is bad. You don’t need to explain these
>> details. Once the new Committer and/or PMC has been elected. The PMC will
>> contact them off list to make sure that they accept. This is followed by an
>> announcement on the dev@ list. The whole point here is to avoid public
>> embarrassment which could cause contributors to leave.
>> 
>> For example, the DISCUSSION (on private@) could be like so:
>> 1. [DISCUSS] Jane Doe for PMC - she’s done some significant work and it is
>> all high quality. She is good to work with and always helpful with users on
>> the mailing list.
>> 2. RE: - She’s great +1
>> 3. RE2: - I’m not sure as she’s only been active for one month. Let’s wait
>> a few months to see if her contributions are sustained.
>> … two months,
>> 4. [DISCUSS] Jane Doe for PMC/Committer - it’s been two months and she’s
>> still helping with code and users. Is it time.
>> 5. RE: yes!
>> 6. RE2: yes!
>> … 72 hours
>> 7. [VOTE] ….
>> … 72 hours
>> 8. [NOTICE]
>> … 72 hours
>> 9. Invite Jane
>> 10. Jane is surprised and accepts
>> 11. Announce on Dev@ and maybe twitter.
>> 
>> So, you can see ways to tweak your language.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 12:16 AM, Matteo Merli 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 5:50 PM Dave Fisher 
>> wrote:
>>> 
 This is very detailed and looks good with one important omission.
 
 How does one go on from being a contributor to committer / PMC status?
 There should be a description about that.
 
 Please discuss!
 
>>> 
>>> That is a very good point. I have added a couple of sections to the
>>> "Contributing" page in the PR:
>>> * https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/pull/2459
>>> * Preview link:
>>> 
>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/blob/0515a9a12a77ca6ffdc8587125e21a32cdb61291/site2/website/contributing.md
>>> 
>>> Also reporting it here for convenience:
>>> 
>>> 
>> ---
>>> ## Becoming a committer
>>> 
>>> Committers are community members that have write access to the project’s
>>> repositories, i.e., they can modify the code, documentation, and website
>>> by themselves and also accept other contributions.
>>> 
>>> There is no strict protocol for becoming a committer. Candidates for new
>>> committers are typically people that are active contributors and
>>> community members.
>>> 
>>> Being an active community member means participating on mailing list
>>> discussions, helping to answer questions, verifying release candidates,
>>> being respectful towards others, and following the meritocratic
>>> principles of community management. Since the
>>> [Apache Way](https://www.apache.org/foundation/governance/)
>>> has a strong focus on the project community, this part is very important.
>>> 
>>> Of course, contributing code and documentation to the project is
>>> important as well. A good way to start is contributing improvements, new
>>> features, or bug fixes. You need to show that you take responsibility
>>> for the code that you contribute, add tests and documentation, and help
>>> maintaining it.
>>> 
>>> Candidates for new committers are suggested by current committers or PMC
>>> members, and voted upon by the PMC.
>>> 
>>> If you would like to become a committer, you should engage with the
>>> community and start contributing to Apache Pulsar in any of the above
>>> 

Re: [DISCUSSION] Pulsar maturity model assessment

[Matteo Merli]

Dave,

I have reworded a bit the "becoming committer" section by adding this
paragraph:


Every new committer has to be proposed by a current committer and then
privately discussed and voted in by the members of the Pulsar PMC.
For details about this process and for candidate requirements see the
general [Apache guidelines for assessing new candidates for committership](
https://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html).
Candidates prepare for their nomination as committer by contributing
to the Pulsar project and its community, by acting according to the
[Apache Way](https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html),
and by generally following the path from
[contributor to committer](https://community.apache.org/contributors/)
for Apache projects.


This is the last commit diff
https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/pull/2459/commits/0bef7eb7f7687ef5d1574f4fb58ff9a69d8a31fa

Please take a look,

thanks,
Matteo

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:06 AM Dave Fisher  wrote:

> Hi -
>
> The explanation should be more carefully worded. Contributors do not self
> nominate themselves. The PMC will notice contributors who have proven
> themselves. A discussion follows on private@ to avoid any embarrassment.

Assuming that the VOTE passes if it is for PMC then a NOTICE is given to
> the IPMC or the Board. This is a 72 hour LAZY ACK in the extremely rare
> case someone knows something that is bad. You don’t need to explain these
> details. Once the new Committer and/or PMC has been elected. The PMC will
> contact them off list to make sure that they accept. This is followed by an
> announcement on the dev@ list. The whole point here is to avoid public
> embarrassment which could cause contributors to leave.
>
> For example, the DISCUSSION (on private@) could be like so:
> 1. [DISCUSS] Jane Doe for PMC - she’s done some significant work and it is
> all high quality. She is good to work with and always helpful with users on
> the mailing list.
> 2. RE: - She’s great +1
> 3. RE2: - I’m not sure as she’s only been active for one month. Let’s wait
> a few months to see if her contributions are sustained.
> … two months,
> 4. [DISCUSS] Jane Doe for PMC/Committer - it’s been two months and she’s
> still helping with code and users. Is it time.
> 5. RE: yes!
> 6. RE2: yes!
> … 72 hours
> 7. [VOTE] ….
> … 72 hours
> 8. [NOTICE]
> … 72 hours
> 9. Invite Jane
> 10. Jane is surprised and accepts
> 11. Announce on Dev@ and maybe twitter.
>
> So, you can see ways to tweak your language.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> > On Aug 29, 2018, at 12:16 AM, Matteo Merli 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 5:50 PM Dave Fisher 
> wrote:
> >
> >> This is very detailed and looks good with one important omission.
> >>
> >> How does one go on from being a contributor to committer / PMC status?
> >> There should be a description about that.
> >>
> >> Please discuss!
> >>
> >
> > That is a very good point. I have added a couple of sections to the
> > "Contributing" page in the PR:
> > * https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/pull/2459
> > * Preview link:
> >
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/blob/0515a9a12a77ca6ffdc8587125e21a32cdb61291/site2/website/contributing.md
> >
> > Also reporting it here for convenience:
> >
> >
> ---
> > ## Becoming a committer
> >
> > Committers are community members that have write access to the project’s
> > repositories, i.e., they can modify the code, documentation, and website
> > by themselves and also accept other contributions.
> >
> > There is no strict protocol for becoming a committer. Candidates for new
> > committers are typically people that are active contributors and
> > community members.
> >
> > Being an active community member means participating on mailing list
> > discussions, helping to answer questions, verifying release candidates,
> > being respectful towards others, and following the meritocratic
> > principles of community management. Since the
> > [Apache Way](https://www.apache.org/foundation/governance/)
> > has a strong focus on the project community, this part is very important.
> >
> > Of course, contributing code and documentation to the project is
> > important as well. A good way to start is contributing improvements, new
> > features, or bug fixes. You need to show that you take responsibility
> > for the code that you contribute, add tests and documentation, and help
> > maintaining it.
> >
> > Candidates for new committers are suggested by current committers or PMC
> > members, and voted upon by the PMC.
> >
> > If you would like to become a committer, you should engage with the
> > community and start contributing to Apache Pulsar in any of the above
> > ways. You might also want to talk to other committers and ask for their
> > advice and guidance.
> >
> > ## Becoming member of PMC
> >
> > The PMC is the project governance body. Committers or contributors that
> > 

Re: [DISCUSSION] Pulsar maturity model assessment

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

Here is a good description of MERIT - 
http://www.apache.org/foundation/governance/pmcs.html#merit 


Regards,
Dave

> On Aug 29, 2018, at 11:06 AM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> 
> Hi -
> 
> The explanation should be more carefully worded. Contributors do not self 
> nominate themselves. The PMC will notice contributors who have proven 
> themselves. A discussion follows on private@ to avoid any embarrassment. 
> Assuming that the VOTE passes if it is for PMC then a NOTICE is given to the 
> IPMC or the Board. This is a 72 hour LAZY ACK in the extremely rare case 
> someone knows something that is bad. You don’t need to explain these details. 
> Once the new Committer and/or PMC has been elected. The PMC will contact them 
> off list to make sure that they accept. This is followed by an announcement 
> on the dev@ list. The whole point here is to avoid public embarrassment which 
> could cause contributors to leave.
> 
> For example, the DISCUSSION (on private@) could be like so:
> 1. [DISCUSS] Jane Doe for PMC - she’s done some significant work and it is 
> all high quality. She is good to work with and always helpful with users on 
> the mailing list.
> 2. RE: - She’s great +1
> 3. RE2: - I’m not sure as she’s only been active for one month. Let’s wait a 
> few months to see if her contributions are sustained.
> … two months,
> 4. [DISCUSS] Jane Doe for PMC/Committer - it’s been two months and she’s 
> still helping with code and users. Is it time.
> 5. RE: yes!
> 6. RE2: yes!
> … 72 hours
> 7. [VOTE] ….
> … 72 hours
> 8. [NOTICE]
> … 72 hours
> 9. Invite Jane
> 10. Jane is surprised and accepts
> 11. Announce on Dev@ and maybe twitter.
> 
> So, you can see ways to tweak your language.
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
>> On Aug 29, 2018, at 12:16 AM, Matteo Merli  wrote:
>> 
>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 5:50 PM Dave Fisher  wrote:
>> 
>>> This is very detailed and looks good with one important omission.
>>> 
>>> How does one go on from being a contributor to committer / PMC status?
>>> There should be a description about that.
>>> 
>>> Please discuss!
>>> 
>> 
>> That is a very good point. I have added a couple of sections to the
>> "Contributing" page in the PR:
>> * https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/pull/2459
>> * Preview link:
>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/blob/0515a9a12a77ca6ffdc8587125e21a32cdb61291/site2/website/contributing.md
>> 
>> Also reporting it here for convenience:
>> 
>> ---
>> ## Becoming a committer
>> 
>> Committers are community members that have write access to the project’s
>> repositories, i.e., they can modify the code, documentation, and website
>> by themselves and also accept other contributions.
>> 
>> There is no strict protocol for becoming a committer. Candidates for new
>> committers are typically people that are active contributors and
>> community members.
>> 
>> Being an active community member means participating on mailing list
>> discussions, helping to answer questions, verifying release candidates,
>> being respectful towards others, and following the meritocratic
>> principles of community management. Since the
>> [Apache Way](https://www.apache.org/foundation/governance/)
>> has a strong focus on the project community, this part is very important.
>> 
>> Of course, contributing code and documentation to the project is
>> important as well. A good way to start is contributing improvements, new
>> features, or bug fixes. You need to show that you take responsibility
>> for the code that you contribute, add tests and documentation, and help
>> maintaining it.
>> 
>> Candidates for new committers are suggested by current committers or PMC
>> members, and voted upon by the PMC.
>> 
>> If you would like to become a committer, you should engage with the
>> community and start contributing to Apache Pulsar in any of the above
>> ways. You might also want to talk to other committers and ask for their
>> advice and guidance.
>> 
>> ## Becoming member of PMC
>> 
>> The PMC is the project governance body. Committers or contributors that
>> have demonstrated continued involvement with the community can be
>> nominated to become members of the PMC.
>> 
>> PMC members nominate new contributors to the project as either
>> committers or as new PMC members, and PMC members cast votes on electing
>> new committers or PMC members to the project. PMC members also have
>> binding votes on any project matters. Refer to
>> [ASF PMCs governance](http://www.apache.org/foundation/governance/pmcs.html)
>> for a more detailed explanation of the duties and roles of the PMC.
>> ---
>> 
>> 
>>> This is better and ties in with my main question above.
>>> 
>> 
>> Created a separate PR to update the "team" page:
>> 

Re: [DISCUSSION] Pulsar maturity model assessment

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

The explanation should be more carefully worded. Contributors do not self 
nominate themselves. The PMC will notice contributors who have proven 
themselves. A discussion follows on private@ to avoid any embarrassment. 
Assuming that the VOTE passes if it is for PMC then a NOTICE is given to the 
IPMC or the Board. This is a 72 hour LAZY ACK in the extremely rare case 
someone knows something that is bad. You don’t need to explain these details. 
Once the new Committer and/or PMC has been elected. The PMC will contact them 
off list to make sure that they accept. This is followed by an announcement on 
the dev@ list. The whole point here is to avoid public embarrassment which 
could cause contributors to leave.

For example, the DISCUSSION (on private@) could be like so:
1. [DISCUSS] Jane Doe for PMC - she’s done some significant work and it is all 
high quality. She is good to work with and always helpful with users on the 
mailing list.
2. RE: - She’s great +1
3. RE2: - I’m not sure as she’s only been active for one month. Let’s wait a 
few months to see if her contributions are sustained.
… two months,
4. [DISCUSS] Jane Doe for PMC/Committer - it’s been two months and she’s still 
helping with code and users. Is it time.
5. RE: yes!
6. RE2: yes!
… 72 hours
7. [VOTE] ….
… 72 hours
8. [NOTICE]
… 72 hours
9. Invite Jane
10. Jane is surprised and accepts
11. Announce on Dev@ and maybe twitter.

So, you can see ways to tweak your language.

Regards,
Dave

> On Aug 29, 2018, at 12:16 AM, Matteo Merli  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 5:50 PM Dave Fisher  wrote:
> 
>> This is very detailed and looks good with one important omission.
>> 
>> How does one go on from being a contributor to committer / PMC status?
>> There should be a description about that.
>> 
>> Please discuss!
>> 
> 
> That is a very good point. I have added a couple of sections to the
> "Contributing" page in the PR:
> * https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/pull/2459
> * Preview link:
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/blob/0515a9a12a77ca6ffdc8587125e21a32cdb61291/site2/website/contributing.md
> 
> Also reporting it here for convenience:
> 
> ---
> ## Becoming a committer
> 
> Committers are community members that have write access to the project’s
> repositories, i.e., they can modify the code, documentation, and website
> by themselves and also accept other contributions.
> 
> There is no strict protocol for becoming a committer. Candidates for new
> committers are typically people that are active contributors and
> community members.
> 
> Being an active community member means participating on mailing list
> discussions, helping to answer questions, verifying release candidates,
> being respectful towards others, and following the meritocratic
> principles of community management. Since the
> [Apache Way](https://www.apache.org/foundation/governance/)
> has a strong focus on the project community, this part is very important.
> 
> Of course, contributing code and documentation to the project is
> important as well. A good way to start is contributing improvements, new
> features, or bug fixes. You need to show that you take responsibility
> for the code that you contribute, add tests and documentation, and help
> maintaining it.
> 
> Candidates for new committers are suggested by current committers or PMC
> members, and voted upon by the PMC.
> 
> If you would like to become a committer, you should engage with the
> community and start contributing to Apache Pulsar in any of the above
> ways. You might also want to talk to other committers and ask for their
> advice and guidance.
> 
> ## Becoming member of PMC
> 
> The PMC is the project governance body. Committers or contributors that
> have demonstrated continued involvement with the community can be
> nominated to become members of the PMC.
> 
> PMC members nominate new contributors to the project as either
> committers or as new PMC members, and PMC members cast votes on electing
> new committers or PMC members to the project. PMC members also have
> binding votes on any project matters. Refer to
> [ASF PMCs governance](http://www.apache.org/foundation/governance/pmcs.html)
> for a more detailed explanation of the duties and roles of the PMC.
> ---
> 
> 
>> This is better and ties in with my main question above.
>> 
> 
> Created a separate PR to update the "team" page:
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/pull/2470
> 
> Matteo
> --
> Matteo Merli
> 



signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP

Re: [DISCUSSION] Pulsar maturity model assessment

[Matteo Merli]

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 5:50 PM Dave Fisher  wrote:

> This is very detailed and looks good with one important omission.
>
> How does one go on from being a contributor to committer / PMC status?
> There should be a description about that.
>
> Please discuss!
>

That is a very good point. I have added a couple of sections to the
"Contributing" page in the PR:
 * https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/pull/2459
 * Preview link:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/blob/0515a9a12a77ca6ffdc8587125e21a32cdb61291/site2/website/contributing.md

Also reporting it here for convenience:

---
## Becoming a committer

Committers are community members that have write access to the project’s
repositories, i.e., they can modify the code, documentation, and website
by themselves and also accept other contributions.

There is no strict protocol for becoming a committer. Candidates for new
committers are typically people that are active contributors and
community members.

Being an active community member means participating on mailing list
discussions, helping to answer questions, verifying release candidates,
being respectful towards others, and following the meritocratic
principles of community management. Since the
[Apache Way](https://www.apache.org/foundation/governance/)
has a strong focus on the project community, this part is very important.

Of course, contributing code and documentation to the project is
important as well. A good way to start is contributing improvements, new
features, or bug fixes. You need to show that you take responsibility
for the code that you contribute, add tests and documentation, and help
maintaining it.

Candidates for new committers are suggested by current committers or PMC
members, and voted upon by the PMC.

If you would like to become a committer, you should engage with the
community and start contributing to Apache Pulsar in any of the above
ways. You might also want to talk to other committers and ask for their
advice and guidance.

## Becoming member of PMC

The PMC is the project governance body. Committers or contributors that
have demonstrated continued involvement with the community can be
nominated to become members of the PMC.

PMC members nominate new contributors to the project as either
committers or as new PMC members, and PMC members cast votes on electing
new committers or PMC members to the project. PMC members also have
binding votes on any project matters. Refer to
[ASF PMCs governance](http://www.apache.org/foundation/governance/pmcs.html)
for a more detailed explanation of the duties and roles of the PMC.
---


> This is better and ties in with my main question above.
>

Created a separate PR to update the "team" page:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/pull/2470

Matteo
-- 
Matteo Merli

Re: [DISCUSSION] Pulsar maturity model assessment

[Dave Fisher]

Short answers inline after a very quick review.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 28, 2018, at 5:35 PM, Matteo Merli  wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 5:04 PM Dave Fisher  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi -
>> 
>> The contributing guide is a 404 on the website and I don’t see it on the
>> menus. (Is it translated? I thought I saw an initial commit for it
>> yesterday.
> 
> 
> The PR is still not merged. Waiting for some flaky tests on CI to let it go
> through:
> PR - https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/pull/2459
> Preview of contributing page:
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/blob/d27d387ab3fe9a2aef997bad1b474fa92b466a05/site2/website/contributing.md

This is very detailed and looks good with one important omission.

How does one go on from being a contributor to committer / PMC status? There 
should be a description about that.

Please discuss!

> 
> 
>> The descriptions on the team page are a little off - Members are both
>> Committers and PPMC members. Please make that distinct. (In the ASF there
>> is a difference between an Apache Member and a PMC Member.)
>> 
> 
> This description was actually coming from BookKeeper team page :) and I can
> see it's being used in multiple projects (eg: HiveMail
> https://hivemall.incubator.apache.org/team-list.html, or Maven
> https://maven.apache.org/team.html ).

They are some variations within Apache and the details are always evolving. 
Very much like how the indigenous Apache are a variety of cultures.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache

> 
> I  am perfectly fine to change the description, because I agree that usage
> of "members" is not very clear to whom it refers to.
> 
> What about changing the description into :
> 
> --
> 
> A successful project requires many people to play many roles. Some write
> code or documentation, while others are valuable as testers, submitting
> patches and suggestions.
> 
> The team is comprised of PMC members, Committers and Contributors.
> Committers have direct access to the source of a project and actively
> evolve the codebase. Contributors improve the project through submission of
> patches and suggestions to be reviewed by the Committers. The number of
> Committers and Contributors to the project is unbounded. Get involved
> today. All contributions to the project are greatly appreciated.
> --

This is better and ties in with my main question above.

> 
> 
> Matteo
> -- 
> Matteo Merli
> 

Re: [DISCUSSION] Pulsar maturity model assessment

[Matteo Merli]

On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 5:04 PM Dave Fisher  wrote:

> Hi -
>
> The contributing guide is a 404 on the website and I don’t see it on the
> menus. (Is it translated? I thought I saw an initial commit for it
> yesterday.


The PR is still not merged. Waiting for some flaky tests on CI to let it go
through:
PR - https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/pull/2459
Preview of contributing page:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/blob/d27d387ab3fe9a2aef997bad1b474fa92b466a05/site2/website/contributing.md


> The descriptions on the team page are a little off - Members are both
> Committers and PPMC members. Please make that distinct. (In the ASF there
> is a difference between an Apache Member and a PMC Member.)
>

This description was actually coming from BookKeeper team page :) and I can
see it's being used in multiple projects (eg: HiveMail
https://hivemall.incubator.apache.org/team-list.html, or Maven
https://maven.apache.org/team.html ).

I  am perfectly fine to change the description, because I agree that usage
of "members" is not very clear to whom it refers to.

What about changing the description into :

--

A successful project requires many people to play many roles. Some write
code or documentation, while others are valuable as testers, submitting
patches and suggestions.

The team is comprised of PMC members, Committers and Contributors.
Committers have direct access to the source of a project and actively
evolve the codebase. Contributors improve the project through submission of
patches and suggestions to be reviewed by the Committers. The number of
Committers and Contributors to the project is unbounded. Get involved
today. All contributions to the project are greatly appreciated.
--


Matteo
-- 
Matteo Merli

Re: [DISCUSSION] Pulsar maturity model assessment

[Dave Fisher]

Hi -

The contributing guide is a 404 on the website and I don’t see it on the menus. 
(Is it translated? I thought I saw an initial commit for it yesterday.)

The descriptions on the team page are a little off - Members are both 
Committers and PPMC members. Please make that distinct. (In the ASF there is a 
difference between an Apache Member and a PMC Member.)

Those are my only questions.

Thanks,
Dave

> On Aug 27, 2018, at 11:43 PM, Matteo Merli  wrote:
> 
> I have started a draft of the maturity model assessment.
> 
> You can find it on the wiki:
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/wiki/Apache-Maturity-Model-Assessment-for-Pulsar
> 
> Please review it and provide feedback. Once there is agreement on this
> document, I think we should then do a vote to formalize the community
> position regarding TLP graduation.
> 
> Matteo
> --
> Matteo Merli
> 



signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP

RE: [DISCUSSION] Pulsar maturity model assessment

[Nozomi Kurihara]

Great work!

+1

Nozomi

差出人: Matteo Merli 
送信日時: 2018年8月28日 15:43:24
宛先: dev@pulsar.incubator.apache.org
件名: [DISCUSSION] Pulsar maturity model assessment

I have started a draft of the maturity model assessment.

You can find it on the wiki:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/wiki/Apache-Maturity-Model-Assessment-for-Pulsar

Please review it and provide feedback. Once there is agreement on this
document, I think we should then do a vote to formalize the community
position regarding TLP graduation.

Matteo
--
Matteo Merli

Re: [DISCUSSION] Pulsar maturity model assessment

[Sijie Guo]

Great work, Matteo!

+1; #shipit

- Sijie


On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 11:43 PM Matteo Merli  wrote:

> I have started a draft of the maturity model assessment.
>
> You can find it on the wiki:
>
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-pulsar/wiki/Apache-Maturity-Model-Assessment-for-Pulsar
>
> Please review it and provide feedback. Once there is agreement on this
> document, I think we should then do a vote to formalize the community
> position regarding TLP graduation.
>
> Matteo
> --
> Matteo Merli
> 
>