date:20181018

> On Wed, 2018-10-17 at 13:14 -0400, Randy Barlow  (manually corrected) wrote:
> 
> I'm curious what is insufficient about Hyperkitty that Discourse does
> well at.

A lot of stuff.
If you try any Discourse website out there you'll see it immediately.

Just an example.
In Hyperkitty, when a new unread message appears in a thread and you click on 
it, you don't jump to the unread but start from the beginning and you have to 
search around to guess what's the new message. This is a big showstopper.
In Discourse the usability is just miles ahead.
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

> I'm replying from Hyperkitty interface.
> 
> I clicked on Quote to quote your email, Randy, but your words appear as 
> written by
> Matthew. Not good...
> Also it seems there's no way to mark a thread as read/unread or special.
> I have the feeling that following a list in Hyperkitty is almost impossible 
> (but I may be
> missing something as I'm new to it).

Now quoting myself and no name appears.

I was wrong about the read/unread thing. After you visited a link, the thread 
won't have the envelope icon anymore, *but only after you refreshed the page*. 
It would be nice to have an immediate update.
Visually the read/unread difference should be highlighted more: for example, 
unread may have some color background.

I have to understand yet how to flag a conversation. Flag = star?
https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/issues/80

There's a _user_ documentation or a help  page for Hyperkitty?
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

2018-10-18 Thread Máirín Duffy

So our Hyperkitty version is old here. I can't reporduce the issue on 
mailman3.org's HK, which is newer. I suspect this is a bug that's been fixed.

~m
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

> On Wed, 2018-10-17 at 13:14 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> 
> I'm curious what is insufficient about Hyperkitty that Discourse does
> well at. Wasn't Hyperkitty supposed to give people the forum
> experience? I admit I haven't used it that much for reading or posting
> (though I do use it for archive links sometimes and it seems fine for
> that), since I really like the e-mail interface, so I am not familiar
> with how nice or un-nice it is to use.

I'm replying from Hyperkitty interface.

I clicked on Quote to quote your email, Randy, but your words appear as written 
by Matthew. Not good...
Also it seems there's no way to mark a thread as read/unread or special.
I have the feeling that following a list in Hyperkitty is almost impossible 
(but I may be missing something as I'm new to it).
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Re: Attention Gmail users, please turn off HTML mail




Il giorno ven 19 ott 2018 alle 5:53, =?iso-8859-1?b?TeFpcu1u?= Duffy 
 ha scritto:


I'm concerned that those proposing Discourse seem to not have used 
Hyperkitty at length.




I'm one of those.
I've never used Hyperkitty before, but I'll give it a try now.


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Re: Attention Gmail users, please turn off HTML mail

2018-10-18 Thread Máirín Duffy

> On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 11:27:02PM -, Ray Strode wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately, all is not rosy there. See this thread on the users' list
> from this fall about confusion with hyperkitty quoting:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.o...

It's hilarious reading this thread in Hyperkitty and having absolutely no issue 
understanding which quote is from whom.

> (Look back at your message I'm replying to here, and note that the standard
> attribution line is missing. And that's not the only issue identified.)
> 
> Additionally, when one does reply, it's just using the standard web browser
> text box, and to my knowledge that doesn't have an easy "delete by line"
> keyboard command, let alone things like smart reflow with quoting. 

These sound like good enhancement features that are likely not essential for 
the core target user.

So that's
> not super-ideal for inline replies. Hyperkitty's threaded view also is
> rudimentary compared to a good mail client.
> 
> All of this stuff would be something we could invest development resources
> in and make better, but we don't really _have_ those resources,

But we can file bugs against Discourse and they will be magically and quickly 
fixed to our satisfaction, yes?

We can invest money and resources into Discourse deployment, and time and 
effort trying to convert each ML over to it one by one, dealing with all of the 
existing docs and pointers to MLs and updating them, no sweat?

Threading is something I could fix on the front end with some backend help. Is 
anybody handy with Django who is interested?

Is that the biggest issue to tackle?

I'm concerned that those proposing Discourse seem to not have used Hyperkitty 
at length.

 and no
> significant outside-of-fedora hyperkitty development community ever
> developed. We're left with some pretty awful things like the prominent "Sign
> Up" button on every Fedora list leading to a big, ugly "Sign Up Closed: We
> are sorry, but the sign up is currently closed" screen —  which is not very
> inviting, to say the least.

I have no idea what that is, but it sounds like a minor bug that probably isn't 
difficult to fix.

But sure let's split our community over that.

~m
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

2018-10-18 Thread Máirín Duffy

I'm open to all of those suggestions as well as committing to design and CSS 
work for them. I would need a web dev to help me though; I'm not great with 
Django.

Please note, the reason Hyperkitty didn't cause this sort of thread or honestly 
any sort of drama or controversy when it was deployed is because it required no 
current users to change anything about their workflow, with one small exception 
- mm3 didn't come out w topic support which was used on the packagers list. (I 
don't believe that's an issue anymore.)

The whole point of the design was to enable a new group of would be 
contributors be able to participate alongside the folks already there, so that 
everyone could participate together. Existing ML users never need to use 
Hyperkitty if they don't want to, and yet, users new to the project can start 
reading and participating in threads right away w no mail client config and 
never receiving a single email if they so desire. 

I believe quite strongly (and have from the start when I first heard of the 
project) that Discourse's basic UX model is fundamentally flawed. If we deploy 
discourse and roll it out, we *may* get new users, but as noted in this thread, 
we will lose existing ones. Participating in upstream effort on Discourse, 
improving it, etc is foolish bc the fundamental model is broken.

When some people think of email, they think of mutt or thunderbird, annoying 
client config, setting up procmail or fetchmail or whatever other complex 
elaborate tools many of the ppl reading this use. Email is just a basic 
standard. Discourse does not follow that standard. There is no reason a social 
media timeline like experience for the teenagers is not possible using email as 
the underlying system. Jabber never really took off, except Google Hangouts and 
FB messenger both used it (no idea if they still do.) The reason our open 
standards like email and xmpp are dying off is bc the primary biz model of the 
companies that used them relies on getting eyes on ads, and scanning content in 
ways that mean giving users a choice of client that works best for their needs 
is off the table.  

Basically dont confuse the front end youre used to with the underlying tech.

I think it's a better idea to use a tool based on open standards, that allows 
users to use the client experience that works best for them. If you try to 
force everyone down one road it won't work. 

~m
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

2018-10-18 Thread Neal Gompa

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 9:11 PM Randy Barlow
 wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2018-10-18 at 14:04 -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> > Here is a link to discourse features:
> > https://www.discourse.org/features
> >
> > I view hyperkitty as just a web interface for mailing lists - not
> > much more
> > than that.
> > Discourse provides a more complete conversation / collaboration
> > environment.  If you
> > take a look at the features page, you'll see it offers some nice
> > capabilities.
>
> Reading that page, I don't see a lot that seems substantially different
> from hyperkitty to me. Can you highlight what in particular you view as
> a valuable difference? What is lacking about Hyperkitty?

(CC'd Mairin Duffy, as she's probably the right person to give the
feedback to, and could respond appropriately to my comments)

In my opinion, there's only a few things needed to make HyperKitty excel:

* Notifications hub for unread threads and such. For people who'd
rather use HyperKitty to interface with the list, there needs to be a
way to track threads and topics that you've participated in or are
watching.

* HyperKitty completely lacks a means of handling rich content. Some
people may not agree with me on this, but having *zero* formatting
sucks. Supporting at least Markdown (probably with CommonMark
specification?) would be a major improvement.

* There *needs* to be a flat view option. A lot of people don't
realize this, but the reason why threaded views aren't normal in web
forums is because they're absolutely awful for deep threads. The only
reason it works in email is because email clients are usually too dumb
to represent them accurately.

* Topic splits aren't rendered as separate conversations to follow,
which makes it difficult to understand what's happening because per
the thing about threaded views, it gets really weird and awkward to
follow multiple conversations spawned from the same mail.

A nice to have would be a better visual style that's more responsive,
exciting, and cleaner looking, but that's a matter of taste. I'm not
much of a fan of the current era of Fedora web styles, as it feels
like the life is sucked out of the site and it's just _boring_...
Heck, I think the current Koji web style is more exciting than the
current Bodhi and HyperKitty ones...

-- 
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
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[389-devel] 389 DS nightly 2018-10-19 - 92% PASS

2018-10-18 Thread vashirov

https://fedorapeople.org/groups/389ds/ci/nightly/2018/10/19/report-389-ds-base-1.4.0.18-20181018gitaaf517c.fc28.x86_64.html
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

2018-10-18 Thread Randy Barlow

On Thu, 2018-10-18 at 14:04 -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> Here is a link to discourse features:
> https://www.discourse.org/features
> 
> I view hyperkitty as just a web interface for mailing lists - not
> much more
> than that.
> Discourse provides a more complete conversation / collaboration
> environment.  If you
> take a look at the features page, you'll see it offers some nice
> capabilities.

Reading that page, I don't see a lot that seems substantially different
from hyperkitty to me. Can you highlight what in particular you view as
a valuable difference? What is lacking about Hyperkitty?


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[389-devel] Re: 389ds build failure on alpine - try this...

2018-10-18 Thread William Brown

On Wed, 2018-10-17 at 18:36 -0400, Brian Matheson wrote:
> It did indeed (tested by simply pulling in relevant definitions from
> centos) but fails to link.  I don't currently have the build in front
> of me, so cannot report details right now.
> 
> I've started down the path of building glibc in alpine but don't know
> off hand how long the dependency chain will be.
> 
> If there's interest on the list, I'll keep you posted.

We define the MALLOPT and MX_FAST as a work around to a glibc issue
though. Could we actually just #ifdef check what libc we have to
prevent this leaking into other platforms/libc types? 




> 
> Thanks again for the help,
> Brian
> 
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 5:27 PM Mark Reynolds 
> wrote:
> > On 10/17/18 12:07 PM, Mark Reynolds wrote:
> > > On 10/17/18 12:01 PM, Mark Reynolds wrote:
> > > > On 10/17/18 11:27 AM, Brian Matheson wrote:
> > > > > Hi list,
> > > > > 
> > > > > I'm attempting th build 389ds with gperftools under alpine
> > > > > linux, but
> > > > > have run into the following snag:
> > > > > 
> > > > > /BUILD # make
> > > > > make  all-am
> > > > > make[1]: Entering directory '/BUILD'
> > > > > /bin/bash ./libtool  --tag=CC   --mode=compile gcc
> > > > > -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> > > > > -I../389-ds-base  -DBUILD_NUM=\"2018.290.1518\"
> > > > > -DVENDOR="\"389 Project\"" -DBRAND="\"389\""
> > > > > -DCAPBRAND="\"389\""
> > > > > -UPACKAGE_VERSION -UPACKAGE_TARNAME -UPACKAGE_STRING
> > > > > -UPACKAGE_BUGREPORT -I../389-ds-base/ldap/include
> > > > > -I../389-ds-base/ldap/servers/slapd -I../389-ds-base/include
> > > > > -I.
> > > > > -I../389-ds-base/src/nunc-stans/include/
> > > > > -DLOCALSTATEDIR="\"/var\""
> > > > > -DSYSCONFDIR="\"/etc\"" -DLIBDIR="\"/usr/lib64\""
> > > > > -DBINDIR="\"/usr/bin\"" -DDATADIR="\"/usr/share\""
> > > > > -DDOCDIR="\"/usr/share/doc/389-ds-base\""
> > > > > -DSBINDIR="\"/usr/sbin\""
> > > > > -DPLUGINDIR="\"/usr/lib64/dirsrv/plugins\""
> > > > > -DTEMPLATEDIR="\"/usr/share/dirsrv/data\""
> > > > > -DSYSTEMSCHEMADIR="\"/usr/share/dirsrv/schema\""
> > > > > -I../389-ds-base/src/nunc-stans/include/ -I/usr/include
> > > > > -I/usr/include/nss -I/usr/include/nspr  -I/usr/include/nspr
> > > > > -I/usr/include/sasl -I/usr/include  -I/usr/include
> > > > > -I../389-ds-base/src/libsds/include/
> > > > > -I../389-ds-base/src/libsds/external/ -I/usr/include/nspr
> > > > > -I../389-ds-base/src/svrcore/src/   -g -pipe -Wall  -
> > > > > fexceptions
> > > > > -fstack-protector --param=ssp-buffer-size=4  -m64
> > > > > -mtune=generic -MT
> > > > > ldap/servers/slapd/libslapd_la-libglobs.lo -MD -MP -MF
> > > > > ldap/servers/slapd/.deps/libslapd_la-libglobs.Tpo -c -o
> > > > > ldap/servers/slapd/libslapd_la-libglobs.lo `test -f
> > > > > 'ldap/servers/slapd/libglobs.c' || echo
> > > > > '../389-ds-base/'`ldap/servers/slapd/libglobs.c
> > > > > libtool: compile:  gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../389-ds-base
> > > > > -DBUILD_NUM=\"2018.290.1518\" "-DVENDOR=\"389 Project\""
> > > > > -DBRAND=\"389\" -DCAPBRAND=\"389\" -UPACKAGE_VERSION
> > > > > -UPACKAGE_TARNAME
> > > > > -UPACKAGE_STRING -UPACKAGE_BUGREPORT -I../389-ds-
> > > > > base/ldap/include
> > > > > -I../389-ds-base/ldap/servers/slapd -I../389-ds-base/include
> > > > > -I.
> > > > > -I../389-ds-base/src/nunc-stans/include/
> > > > > -DLOCALSTATEDIR=\"/var\"
> > > > > -DSYSCONFDIR=\"/etc\" -DLIBDIR=\"/usr/lib64\"
> > > > > -DBINDIR=\"/usr/bin\"
> > > > > -DDATADIR=\"/usr/share\" -DDOCDIR=\"/usr/share/doc/389-ds-
> > > > > base\"
> > > > > -DSBINDIR=\"/usr/sbin\"
> > > > > -DPLUGINDIR=\"/usr/lib64/dirsrv/plugins\"
> > > > > -DTEMPLATEDIR=\"/usr/share/dirsrv/data\"
> > > > > -DSYSTEMSCHEMADIR=\"/usr/share/dirsrv/schema\"
> > > > > -I../389-ds-base/src/nunc-stans/include/ -I/usr/include
> > > > > -I/usr/include/nss -I/usr/include/nspr -I/usr/include/nspr
> > > > > -I/usr/include/sasl -I/usr/include -I/usr/include
> > > > > -I../389-ds-base/src/libsds/include/
> > > > > -I../389-ds-base/src/libsds/external/ -I/usr/include/nspr
> > > > > -I../389-ds-base/src/svrcore/src/ -g -pipe -Wall -fexceptions
> > > > > -fstack-protector --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 -m64
> > > > > -mtune=generic -MT
> > > > > ldap/servers/slapd/libslapd_la-libglobs.lo -MD -MP -MF
> > > > > ldap/servers/slapd/.deps/libslapd_la-libglobs.Tpo -c
> > > > > ../389-ds-base/ldap/servers/slapd/libglobs.c  -fPIC -DPIC -o
> > > > > ldap/servers/slapd/.libs/libslapd_la-libglobs.o
> > > > > ../389-ds-base/ldap/servers/slapd/libglobs.c: In function
> > > > > 'config_set_malloc_mxfast':
> > > > > ../389-ds-base/ldap/servers/slapd/libglobs.c:8107:9: warning:
> > > > > implicit
> > > > > declaration of function 'mallopt' [-Wimplicit-function-
> > > > > declaration]
> > > > >  mallopt(M_MXFAST, mxfast);
> > > > >  ^~~
> > > > > ../389-ds-base/ldap/servers/slapd/libglobs.c:8107:17: error:
> > > > > 'M_MXFAST' undeclared (first use in this function)
> > > > >  mallopt(M_MXFAST, mxfast);
> > > > >  ^~~~
>

Re: Empty debugsources.list file in build when enabling py2 builds

2018-10-18 Thread Miro Hrončok


On 19.10.2018 00:28, Ankur Sinha wrote:

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 23:11:56 +0100, Ankur Sinha wrote:



https://github.com/sanjayankur31/rpm-specs/blob/libneurosim/libneurosim.spec

However, when I flip that variable to enable py2 builds to 1:


%global with_py2 1


the build fails with this error:


error: Empty %files file 
/builddir/build/BUILD/libneurosim-57b76e222dd3196fa3c97ddfa2f8132627814c23/debugsourcefiles.list


After some random tinkering, I find that if I install the py3 build
later (the build that uses the "main" copy of the source), the build no
longer fails:

https://github.com/sanjayankur31/rpm-specs/commit/26aa6d6e0b3816fee7c762113e0354e234de8551

I'm still at a loss to why this is so. Would someone be able to shed
some light on this please?


The debugsourcefiles.list is constructed from files in the current 
folder the build is in. In your case, that's the %{name}-%{commit} 
folder from %autosetup.


Anything you create outside that folder is not included.

You do this:

  cd ../
  ...
  cp -a %{name}-%{commit} %{name}-%{commit}-py2


And ../%{name}-%{commit}-py2 is not included.

If you really need to do this, create those as subfolders:

  %autosetup -c -n %{name}-%{commit}
  cp -a %{name}-%{commit} %{name}-%{commit}-py2
  ..

Note the -c and the lack of cd ../.

--

Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: +420777974800
IRC: mhroncok
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Re: Empty debugsources.list file in build when enabling py2 builds

2018-10-18 Thread Ankur Sinha

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 23:11:56 +0100, Ankur Sinha wrote:
> 
> 
> https://github.com/sanjayankur31/rpm-specs/blob/libneurosim/libneurosim.spec
> 
> However, when I flip that variable to enable py2 builds to 1:
> 
> > %global with_py2 1
> 
> the build fails with this error:
> 
> > error: Empty %files file 
> > /builddir/build/BUILD/libneurosim-57b76e222dd3196fa3c97ddfa2f8132627814c23/debugsourcefiles.list

After some random tinkering, I find that if I install the py3 build
later (the build that uses the "main" copy of the source), the build no
longer fails:

https://github.com/sanjayankur31/rpm-specs/commit/26aa6d6e0b3816fee7c762113e0354e234de8551

I'm still at a loss to why this is so. Would someone be able to shed
some light on this please?
-- 
Thanks,
Regards,

Ankur Sinha "FranciscoD"

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha
Time zone: Europe/London


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Empty debugsources.list file in build when enabling py2 builds

2018-10-18 Thread Ankur Sinha

Hello,

I have a spec here where I use a simple conditional to toggle py2
builds---so that I can use the same spec and provide py2 for F < 30
releases.

https://github.com/sanjayankur31/rpm-specs/blob/libneurosim/libneurosim.spec

However, when I flip that variable to enable py2 builds to 1:

> %global with_py2 1

the build fails with this error:

> error: Empty %files file 
> /builddir/build/BUILD/libneurosim-57b76e222dd3196fa3c97ddfa2f8132627814c23/debugsourcefiles.list

I've checked, and the file is indeed empty, but I've not been able to
figure out why. Would anyone have any clues please?

-- 
Thanks,
Regards,

Ankur Sinha "FranciscoD"

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha
Time zone: Europe/London


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Fedora Rawhide-20181018.n.0 compose check report

2018-10-18 Thread Fedora compose checker

No missing expected images.

Failed openQA tests: 10/133 (x86_64), 2/24 (i386), 1/2 (arm)

New failures (same test did not fail in Rawhide-20181017.n.0):

ID: 297831  Test: x86_64 universal install_blivet_lvmthin@uefi
URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297831

Old failures (same test failed in Rawhide-20181017.n.0):

ID: 297748  Test: x86_64 Server-dvd-iso modularity_tests
URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297748
ID: 297772  Test: x86_64 Workstation-live-iso install_default_upload
URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297772
ID: 297773  Test: x86_64 Workstation-live-iso install_default@uefi
URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297773
ID: 297778  Test: x86_64 Workstation-live-iso desktop_notifications_live
URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297778
ID: 297788  Test: i386 Workstation-live-iso install_default
URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297788
ID: 297791  Test: x86_64 KDE-live-iso install_default_upload
URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297791
ID: 297792  Test: x86_64 KDE-live-iso install_default@uefi
URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297792
ID: 297794  Test: x86_64 KDE-live-iso install_no_user
URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297794
ID: 297797  Test: x86_64 KDE-live-iso desktop_notifications_live
URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297797
ID: 297804  Test: i386 KDE-live-iso install_default
URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297804
ID: 297805  Test: arm Minimal-raw_xz-raw.xz 
install_arm_image_deployment_upload
URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297805
ID: 297844  Test: x86_64 universal install_european_language
URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297844

Soft failed openQA tests: 4/133 (x86_64), 2/24 (i386)
(Tests completed, but using a workaround for a known bug)

New soft failures (same test did not soft fail in Rawhide-20181017.n.0):

ID: 297837  Test: x86_64 universal upgrade_2_kde_64bit
URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297837

Old soft failures (same test soft failed in Rawhide-20181017.n.0):

ID: 297767  Test: i386 Server-boot-iso install_default
URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297767
ID: 297768  Test: i386 Server-dvd-iso install_default
URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297768
ID: 297863  Test: x86_64 universal upgrade_server_64bit
URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297863
ID: 297864  Test: x86_64 universal upgrade_server_domain_controller
URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297864
ID: 297865  Test: x86_64 universal upgrade_realmd_client
URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297865

Passed openQA tests: 101/133 (x86_64), 20/24 (i386)

New passes (same test did not pass in Rawhide-20181017.n.0):

ID: 297743  Test: x86_64 Server-dvd-iso install_repository_nfs_variation
URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297743
ID: 297857  Test: x86_64 universal install_rescue_encrypted@uefi
URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297857
ID: 297877  Test: x86_64 universal install_asian_language
URL: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297877

Skipped openQA tests: 19 of 159

Installed system changes in test x86_64 Server-boot-iso install_default@uefi: 
System load changed from 1.28 to 1.42
Previous test data: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297176#downloads
Current test data: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297741#downloads

Installed system changes in test x86_64 Server-dvd-iso install_default_upload: 
System load changed from 1.83 to 1.08
Previous test data: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297180#downloads
Current test data: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297745#downloads

Installed system changes in test x86_64 Server-dvd-iso install_default@uefi: 
System load changed from 1.15 to 1.73
Previous test data: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297181#downloads
Current test data: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297746#downloads

Installed system changes in test i386 Everything-boot-iso install_default: 
System load changed from 0.22 to 1.09
Previous test data: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297206#downloads
Current test data: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297771#downloads

Installed system changes in test x86_64 Workstation-boot-iso install_default: 
2 services(s) added since previous compose: geoclue.service, 
wpa_supplicant.service
System load changed from 2.32 to 2.17
Average CPU usage changed from 3.95238095 to 18.61904762
Previous test data: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297219#downloads
Current test data: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297784#downloads

Installed system changes in test x86_64 Workstation-boot-iso 
install_default@uefi: 
2 services(s) added since previous compose: geoclue.service, 
wpa_supplicant.service
Previous test data: https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/297222#downloads
Current test data:

Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 1:15 PM Randy Barlow 
wrote:

> On Wed, 2018-10-17 at 13:14 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> > Discourse is *definitely* not a smooth, drop-in mailing list
> > replacement
> > like Hyperkitty is.
>
> I'm curious what is insufficient about Hyperkitty that Discourse does
> well at. Wasn't Hyperkitty supposed to give people the forum
> experience? I admit I haven't used it that much for reading or posting
> (though I do use it for archive links sometimes and it seems fine for
> that), since I really like the e-mail interface, so I am not familiar
> with how nice or un-nice it is to use.
>
>
Here is a link to discourse features:
https://www.discourse.org/features

I view hyperkitty as just a web interface for mailing lists - not much more
than that.
Discourse provides a more complete conversation / collaboration
environment.  If you
take a look at the features page, you'll see it offers some nice
capabilities.

I wouldn't expect it to be a "drop-in" mailing list replacement.  Yes, it
allows some
backward compatibility by providing "mailing-list mode" - but you're going
to get a richer
experience if you use native interfaces.
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Re: Fedora 29 compose report: 20181017.n.0 changes

2018-10-18 Thread Fabio Valentini

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 10:02 PM Lokesh Mandvekar
 wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:50:51PM +0200, Fabio Valentini wrote:
> >
> > I'm confused by this podman build. Especially so with my Packaging
> > Committee hat on.
> >
> > - changelog message says it's version 10.1
> > - %{version} is 0.10.1
> > - github project has 0.10.1 tag, but its commit hash doesn't match
> > what's built here
> > - Release matches the (old!) pattern for a snapshot build
> > - Epoch is set to 1 if fedora > 28?
> >
> > Looking at the .spec file didn't help me, it's a hot mess.
> >
> > Can somebody enlighten me about:
> > Is this a snapshot build? Is it a stable release?
> > If it's a stable build, why doesn't the commit hash match up with the
> > appropriate tag?
>
> Should be fixed with the latest bump to v0.10.1.3 on rawhide, f29 and f28.
> Please let me know if something still looks off.

The commit hash and release tag now match up, so that's better. And
the usage of Epoch seems to be ... more correct.
Everything else is either unchanged or worse (for example, the new
changelog entries don't match the actual version-release of the build
at all).

> Thanks,
> --
> Lokesh
> IRC, GitHub: lsm5
> GPG: 0xC7C3A0DD
> https://keybase.io/lsm5
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[389-devel] please review: PR 49983 - Fix various issues in repl UI

2018-10-18 Thread Mark Reynolds



https://pagure.io/389-ds-base/pull-request/49983
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

2018-10-18 Thread Randy Barlow

On Wed, 2018-10-17 at 13:14 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> Discourse is *definitely* not a smooth, drop-in mailing list
> replacement
> like Hyperkitty is.

I'm curious what is insufficient about Hyperkitty that Discourse does
well at. Wasn't Hyperkitty supposed to give people the forum
experience? I admit I haven't used it that much for reading or posting
(though I do use it for archive links sometimes and it seems fine for
that), since I really like the e-mail interface, so I am not familiar
with how nice or un-nice it is to use.

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[Bug 1639640] Biber and texlive-biblatex versions are incompatible

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1639640

Colin Macdonald  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|MODIFIED|RELEASE_PENDING



--- Comment #4 from Colin Macdonald  ---
Please test and send karma for F29

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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:40 PM Kevin Fenzi  wrote:

> On 10/18/18 6:31 AM, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
>
> > Actually, I think that just creating a new discourse instance for
> > discussions keeping the mailing
> > lists around would be a good solution.  You wouldn't have to worry about
> > registration.  People who wanted
> > to use it or try it out could do that themselves - and you wouldn't have
> to
> > be concerned about moving archives,
> > etc.  You could then just let normal attrition handle it.
>
> Sure, but it might be not a great experience if not enough people watch
> both or move to discourse. ie, people asking questions there or starting
> discussions and no one answering them.
>
> So, if people want to discuss in discourse, great, but I don't think we
> should create a vast sea of empty topics until/unless people are needing
> them.
>
> Yeah, it's kind of a chicken / egg situation - you're not going to know
until you
throw something out there and let people give it a whirl and determine how
it
works for them in a real world situation - not some lab mockup.
The Foreman results that Matt posted earlier appeared to indicate it
would be worthwhile to try.
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

2018-10-18 Thread Emmanuel Seyman

* Gerald B. Cox [18/10/2018 06:31] :
>
> Actually, I think that just creating a new discourse instance for
> discussions keeping the mailing lists around would be a good solution.

The way I read this, it implies we would fragment developement disccusion
in two, the people using mailing lists on one side and the people using
discourse on the other.

Whatever is decided, I hope this does not happen.

Emmanuel
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[Bug 1639640] Biber and texlive-biblatex versions are incompatible

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1639640

Fedora Update System  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |MODIFIED



--- Comment #3 from Fedora Update System  ---
biber-2.11-1.fc29 has been submitted as an update to Fedora 29.
https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2018-129b020cb7

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[Bug 1401482] biber-2.11 is available

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1401482

Fedora Update System  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|ASSIGNED|MODIFIED



--- Comment #28 from Fedora Update System  ---
biber-2.11-1.fc29 has been submitted as an update to Fedora 29.
https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2018-129b020cb7

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Re: Fedora 29 compose report: 20181017.n.0 changes

2018-10-18 Thread Lokesh Mandvekar


On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 06:50:51PM +0200, Fabio Valentini wrote:
> 
> I'm confused by this podman build. Especially so with my Packaging
> Committee hat on.
> 
> - changelog message says it's version 10.1
> - %{version} is 0.10.1
> - github project has 0.10.1 tag, but its commit hash doesn't match
> what's built here
> - Release matches the (old!) pattern for a snapshot build
> - Epoch is set to 1 if fedora > 28?
> 
> Looking at the .spec file didn't help me, it's a hot mess.
> 
> Can somebody enlighten me about:
> Is this a snapshot build? Is it a stable release?
> If it's a stable build, why doesn't the commit hash match up with the
> appropriate tag?

Should be fixed with the latest bump to v0.10.1.3 on rawhide, f29 and f28.
Please let me know if something still looks off.

Thanks,
-- 
Lokesh
IRC, GitHub: lsm5
GPG: 0xC7C3A0DD
https://keybase.io/lsm5
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

2018-10-18 Thread Solomon Peachy

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:34:45PM -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> You're missing the point of this thread - it's about the capabilities 
> of a tool to foster discussion and communication between mulitiple 
> people - it's not about cloning email software.

What is "email software", if not a tool to foster discussion and 
communication between multiple people?

 - Solomon
-- 
Solomon Peachy pizza at shaftnet dot org
Coconut Creek, FL  ^^ (email/xmpp) ^^
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.


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Re: dnf info crash

2018-10-18 Thread Samuel Sieb


On 10/18/18 12:46 PM, Vlad Palnik wrote:
Is this a known issue or a new bug, I was unable to find anything on 
bugzilla,

the issue appeared after initial install followed by dnf update


Known new bug, it was caused by putting a new version of dnf into F29.


OS: Fedora 29 Beta
Hardware: Dell R720

[vpuser@localhost ~]$ dnf info tomcat
Last metadata expiration check: 0:43:37 ago on Thu 18 Oct 2018 11:55:48 AM PDT. 
RuntimeError: Exec failed: attempt to write a readonly database


https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1640235
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

On Thu, 2018-10-18 at 12:12 -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:03 PM Simo Sorce  wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 2018-10-18 at 11:51 -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> > > On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 11:40 AM Simo Sorce  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Wed, 2018-10-17 at 11:02 -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 10:55 AM Samuel Sieb 
> > 
> > wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > On 10/17/18 8:52 AM, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> > > > > > > Again, I use gmail and things look perfectly fine for me.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > That's because gmail only shows the HTML part.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Ah... so it's a client issue.  Good to know.
> > > > 
> > > > No it is a service issue that just happen not to affect *your* client
> > > > of choice. There is a big difference.
> > > > 
> > > > Simo.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > You need to read the entire thread in context, including subsequent
> > > responses.  I realize that can be difficult on a mailing list, with
> > > all the top-posting, conversation snippets, etc.
> > 
> > I did read the thread, and there is no difficulty at all to read a
> > thread, given my client can do threading just fine, the comment stands.
> > 
> > Well, maybe you need to read it again - because you're missing the point.

Your quoting tells me half the issue is in the setup you chose or are
forced to use.

I think I understand the point, I just do not reach the same
conclusions you do, each of us reach their conclusions based on their
experiences. So perhaps we are both reaching wrong conclusions, I am
not saying I am *right*, what I am saying is that you are not offering
compelling reasons *to me*.

Simo.

-- 
Simo Sorce
Sr. Principal Software Engineer
Red Hat, Inc
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dnf info crash

2018-10-18 Thread Vlad Palnik

Is this a known issue or a new bug, I was unable to find anything on
bugzilla,
the issue appeared after initial install followed by dnf update

OS: Fedora 29 Beta
Hardware: Dell R720

[vpuser@localhost ~]$ dnf info tomcat


Last metadata expiration check: 0:43:37 ago on Thu 18 Oct 2018
11:55:48 AM PDT.


Installed Packages


Traceback (most recent call last):


  File "/bin/dnf", line 58, in 


main.user_main(sys.argv[1:], exit_code=True)


  File "/usr/lib/python3.7/site-packages/dnf/cli/main.py", line 179,
in user_main
errcode = main(args)


  File "/usr/lib/python3.7/site-packages/dnf/cli/main.py", line 64, in
main
return _main(base, args, cli_class, option_parser_class)


  File "/usr/lib/python3.7/site-packages/dnf/cli/main.py", line 99, in
_main
return cli_run(cli, base)


  File "/usr/lib/python3.7/site-packages/dnf/cli/main.py", line 115,
in cli_run
cli.run()


  File "/usr/lib/python3.7/site-packages/dnf/cli/cli.py", line 1055,
in run
return self.command.run()


  File "/usr/lib/python3.7/site-packages/dnf/cli/commands/__init__.py",
line 219, in run
self.opts.packages)


  File "/usr/lib/python3.7/site-packages/dnf/cli/cli.py", line 438, in
output_packages
'=' : clir, 'not in' : clie})


  File "/usr/lib/python3.7/site-packages/dnf/cli/output.py", line 633,
in listPkgs
print(self.infoOutput(pkg, highlight=highlight) + "\n")


  File "/usr/lib/python3.7/site-packages/dnf/cli/output.py", line 504,
in infoOutput
history_repo = self.history.repo(pkg)


  File "/usr/lib/python3.7/site-packages/dnf/db/history.py", line 362,
in repo
return self.swdb.getRPMRepo(str(pkg))


  File "/usr/lib/python3.7/site-packages/dnf/db/history.py", line 291,
in swdb
self._swdb = libdnf.transaction.Swdb(self.dbpath)


  File "/usr/lib64/python3.7/site-packages/libdnf/transaction.py",
line 729, in __init__
this = _transaction.new_Swdb(*args)


RuntimeError: Exec failed: attempt to write a readonly database

Thanks,
VP


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[rpms/biber] PR #1: Update to 2.11

2018-10-18 Thread Colin Macdonald


cbm merged a pull-request against the project: `biber` that you are following.

Merged pull-request:

``
Update to 2.11
``

https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/biber/pull-request/1
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 09:24:03PM +0200, Tomasz Torcz wrote:
>   Using GMail (both legacy and Inbox) as a representation of email
> workflow and ergonomy is not fair.  Gmail as a client is abysmal.
> No threading, no coloring of different level of citation, no integrated
> GPG support, no comfortable editor.
>   Honest comparison would be between Discourse and Mutt+procmail, or
> Gnus.
>   If one insist on using GMail as a server (instead of running one),
> I believe there's a IMAP access method which should work with mutt.

I agree that Gmail is awful. And, moreso, specifically hostile to
mailing lists.

However —  and I say this as a die-hard mutt user with my own postfix
server —  we absolutely, no way, should make it seem like running such a
setup is a prerequisite to involvement in Fedora development. If that's
"fair", I don't want "fair".


-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

2018-10-18 Thread Kevin Fenzi

On 10/18/18 6:31 AM, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 5:33 AM Matthew Miller 
> wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 01:39:30PM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
>>> I cannot *ever* recommend, in good conscious, moving to Discourse for
>>> Fedora development discussions.
>>>
>>> However, I think it's fantastic for user support, as those are much
>>> more context free, incidental, and so on. I've wished for a long time
>>
>> Yeah, I'm not suggesting moving all development discussion there, although
>> I think there are people who *do* want to do development discussion that
>> way, and I wouldn't want to _block_ that.
>>
> 
> Actually, I think that just creating a new discourse instance for
> discussions keeping the mailing
> lists around would be a good solution.  You wouldn't have to worry about
> registration.  People who wanted
> to use it or try it out could do that themselves - and you wouldn't have to
> be concerned about moving archives,
> etc.  You could then just let normal attrition handle it.

Sure, but it might be not a great experience if not enough people watch
both or move to discourse. ie, people asking questions there or starting
discussions and no one answering them.

So, if people want to discuss in discourse, great, but I don't think we
should create a vast sea of empty topics until/unless people are needing
them.

kevin



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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:28 PM  wrote:

> > On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 11:40 AM Simo Sorce  wrote:
>
> > You need to read the entire thread in context, including subsequent
> > responses.  I realize that can be difficult on a mailing list, with
> > all the top-posting, conversation snippets, etc.
>
> We have been doing that.  The features touted for Discourse are automatic
> and natural for email lists, and said to be poorly mimicked in Discourse.
>
> You're missing the point of this thread - it's about the capabilities of a
tool to foster discussion
and communication between mulitiple people - it's not about cloning email
software.
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Re: resume= kernel cmdline arg by default on servers

2018-10-18 Thread Samuel Sieb

On 10/18/18 9:24 AM, tonynel...@georgeanelson.com wrote:

Stephen Gallagher said:

 >> What happens when the "server" is a (K)VM on a desktop/laptop that 
is hibernated? I know what I'd want to happen. > > See the other section 
of this thread; The VM hypervisor handles this,

 > not the client system (by default).

I did see it, but I don't understand. I think you're saying that when
the system hibernates that the hypervisor will take care of KVMs,
so they don't need to do anything (except catch up when they
wake up). A resume= is not needed for VMs.

That is correct.  KVM/libvirt will handle saving the VM state before the 
host shuts off.  Then on resume, it restores the VM state and resumes it.

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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:24 PM Tomasz Torcz  wrote:

>
> > You like gmail […]
>
>   Using GMail (both legacy and Inbox) as a representation of email
> workflow and ergonomy is not fair.  Gmail as a client is abysmal.
> No threading, no coloring of different level of citation, no integrated
> GPG support, no comfortable editor.
>   Honest comparison would be between Discourse and Mutt+procmail, or
> Gnus.
>   If one insist on using GMail as a server (instead of running one),
> I believe there's a IMAP access method which should work with mutt.
>

I use gmail... I don't like it... it's a software tool... there is no
emotional attachment.  That said,
the point of this thread isn't gmail.
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Re: resume= kernel cmdline arg by default on servers

2018-10-18 Thread tonynelson

Simo Sorce wrote:
> On Thu, 2018-10-18 at 12:38 -0400, tonynel...@georgeanelson.com wrote:
 ...
>> No, but Android Mail sucks in very many ways.  Replying by webmail.
>> Anyone know of a good Android email client?
>
> K9 Mail is the best, paired with OpenKeychain I can even do encrypted
> email using a yubikey token via NFC. It is very, very cool ...

I will check it out.

TonyN.:'   
  '  
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

2018-10-18 Thread tonynelson

> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 11:40 AM Simo Sorce  wrote:

> You need to read the entire thread in context, including subsequent
> responses.  I realize that can be difficult on a mailing list, with
> all the top-posting, conversation snippets, etc.

We have been doing that.  The features touted for Discourse are automatic
and natural for email lists, and said to be poorly mimicked in Discourse.
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

2018-10-18 Thread Tomasz Torcz

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 03:02:52PM -0400, Simo Sorce wrote:
> On Thu, 2018-10-18 at 11:51 -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 11:40 AM Simo Sorce  wrote:
> > 
> > > On Wed, 2018-10-17 at 11:02 -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 10:55 AM Samuel Sieb  wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > On 10/17/18 8:52 AM, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> > > > > > Again, I use gmail and things look perfectly fine for me.
> > > > > 
> > > > > That's because gmail only shows the HTML part.
> > > > 
> > > > Ah... so it's a client issue.  Good to know.
> > > 
> > > No it is a service issue that just happen not to affect *your* client
> > > of choice. There is a big difference.
> > 
> > You need to read the entire thread in context, including subsequent
> > responses.  I realize that can be difficult on a mailing list, with
> > all the top-posting, conversation snippets, etc.
> 
> I did read the thread, and there is no difficulty at all to read a
> thread, given my client can do threading just fine, the comment stands.
> 
> You like gmail […]

  Using GMail (both legacy and Inbox) as a representation of email
workflow and ergonomy is not fair.  Gmail as a client is abysmal.
No threading, no coloring of different level of citation, no integrated
GPG support, no comfortable editor.
  Honest comparison would be between Discourse and Mutt+procmail, or
Gnus.
  If one insist on using GMail as a server (instead of running one),
I believe there's a IMAP access method which should work with mutt.

-- 
Tomasz   .. oo o.   oo o. .o   .o o. o. oo o.   ..
Torcz.. .o .o   .o .o oo   oo .o .. .. oo   oo
o.o.o.   .o .. o.   o. o. o.   o. o. oo .. ..   o.
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 12:03 PM Simo Sorce  wrote:

> On Thu, 2018-10-18 at 11:51 -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 11:40 AM Simo Sorce  wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 2018-10-17 at 11:02 -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 10:55 AM Samuel Sieb 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 10/17/18 8:52 AM, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> > > > > > Again, I use gmail and things look perfectly fine for me.
> > > > >
> > > > > That's because gmail only shows the HTML part.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ah... so it's a client issue.  Good to know.
> > >
> > > No it is a service issue that just happen not to affect *your* client
> > > of choice. There is a big difference.
> > >
> > > Simo.
> > >
> >
> > You need to read the entire thread in context, including subsequent
> > responses.  I realize that can be difficult on a mailing list, with
> > all the top-posting, conversation snippets, etc.
>
> I did read the thread, and there is no difficulty at all to read a
> thread, given my client can do threading just fine, the comment stands.
>
> Well, maybe you need to read it again - because you're missing the point.
>
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Re: resume= kernel cmdline arg by default on servers

2018-10-18 Thread Kevin Fenzi

On 10/18/18 6:02 AM, Dusty Mabe wrote:
> 
> 
> On 10/18/2018 07:58 AM, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 11:27 PM Dusty Mabe  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> For BZ1206936 [1] we started adding resume= kernel command line by
>>> default [2] in fedora installs. This is causing issues for ostree
>>> based systems, which I haven't fully investigated yet, but figured
>>> I would ask the question:
>>>
>>> Is resume=/path/to/swap something we really want on server installs
>>> like Fedora Server and Fedora Atomic Host?
>>>
>>
>> It seems *unnecessary*, but I'm not sure I understand what problems it
>> causes. Could you got into more detail there?
> 
> Yeah. https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/513#comment-536736
> 
> Basically for some reason on ostree based systems the LV isn't available
> before the systemd unit for hibernation runs and boot has to wait for that
> unit to timeout before continuing. I'm still investigating why that is.

It does sound like anaconda could be more picky here for when it adds
this. Additional to the atomic/ostree case, if you have secure boot
enabled it's useless to add, if your swap is smaller than your memory
it's useless to add, etc.

kevin




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Re: Attention Gmail users, please turn off HTML mail

2018-10-18 Thread Roberto Ragusa

On 10/09/2018 04:06 PM, Anderson, Charles R wrote:

> One click is too much for my terminal email client via SSH on my
> phone.  My email client already supports filtering into separate
> mailboxes for each list and also supports threads shown in a
> hierarchy.  If Fedora lists go away in favor of a web forum, I will
> probably just not participate anymore.

That's more or less the same for me.
My fetchmail, procmail and thunderbird setup gives me a way to
keep an eye on this (and many other mailing lists) without much effort.
I will not consider switching to a forum based website, since
my experience with projects using them has been discouraging.
Any "mailing list mode" will be a second class citizen, with
limitations and constant babysitting, and certainly due to be removed
in the future because "most of our users are using the web UI".

I'll probably not follow Fedora anymore.
My folders contain all fedora and fedora-devel mails
since my subscription, on 24/12/2005 (that is, Fedora 4),
not sure if there will be a 2019 folder.

Regards.

-- 
   Roberto Ragusamail at robertoragusa.it
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

On Thu, 2018-10-18 at 11:51 -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 11:40 AM Simo Sorce  wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 2018-10-17 at 11:02 -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> > > On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 10:55 AM Samuel Sieb  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On 10/17/18 8:52 AM, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> > > > > Again, I use gmail and things look perfectly fine for me.
> > > > 
> > > > That's because gmail only shows the HTML part.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Ah... so it's a client issue.  Good to know.
> > 
> > No it is a service issue that just happen not to affect *your* client
> > of choice. There is a big difference.
> > 
> > Simo.
> > 
> 
> You need to read the entire thread in context, including subsequent
> responses.  I realize that can be difficult on a mailing list, with
> all the top-posting, conversation snippets, etc.

I did read the thread, and there is no difficulty at all to read a
thread, given my client can do threading just fine, the comment stands.

You like gmail, and it just so happen discourse will generate mails
that rendere well in gmail ... I would be ready to bet that is because
the developers of that feature only test with gmail ...

The point was, you are looking only at your experience and not making
an analysis of what the impact of a change is for *all* the users.
You also state an opinion "discourse is just better" as fact, with a
few other *opinions* only as supporting evidence.

I think discourse may be a decent tool for fedora-users@ or some other
forum, where discussion is shorter and generally more of a quick
answer/reply shot.

But devel@ is a completely different story, if you think discourse is
much better is it possible that it's because your client doesn't handle
mailing list very well and you should look for a better client ?

Simo.

-- 
Simo Sorce
Sr. Principal Software Engineer
Red Hat, Inc
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Re: resume= kernel cmdline arg by default on servers

On Thu, 2018-10-18 at 12:38 -0400, tonynel...@georgeanelson.com wrote:
> > tonynel...@georgeanelson.com wrote:
> > > Â Stephen Gallagher said:
> > > > Â I can't see anyone putting a Server or Atomic Host into
> > > 
> > > hibernation,Â though. ...
> > > What happens when the "server" is a (K)VM on a desktop/laptop that is
> > > hibernated? I know what I'd want to happen.
> > 
> > When I suspend my Fedora laptop (not hibernate because that doesn't
> > work) with CentOS running in KVM, there is a rather high probability
> > that the VM will enter an infinite loop when resumed.
> 
> /That's/ not what I'd want.  But, since hibernate works on my laptop I
> don't suspend.
> 
> 
> > > Sent from my LG Mobile
> > 
> > By the way, are you aware that your LG Mobile is too dumb to reply to
> > an email correctly? Your messages break the threading.
> 
> No, but Android Mail sucks in very many ways.  Replying by webmail.
> Anyone know of a good Android email client?

K9 Mail is the best, paired with OpenKeychain I can even do encrypted
email using a yubikey token via NFC. It is very, very cool ...

-- 
Simo Sorce
Sr. Principal Software Engineer
Red Hat, Inc
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Re: resume= kernel cmdline arg by default on servers

On Thu, 2018-10-18 at 16:21 +0100, Daniel P. Berrangé wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 05:16:19PM +0200, Björn Persson wrote:
> > tonynel...@georgeanelson.com wrote:
> > >  Stephen Gallagher said:
> > > >  I can't see anyone putting a Server or Atomic Host into hibernation, 
> > > > though. ...  
> > > 
> > > What happens when the "server" is a (K)VM on a desktop/laptop that is 
> > > hibernated? I know what I'd want to happen.
> > 
> > When I suspend my Fedora laptop (not hibernate because that doesn't
> > work) with CentOS running in KVM, there is a rather high probability
> > that the VM will enter an infinite loop when resumed.
> 
> That will likely be QEMU trying to inject many hours worth of
> interrupts to the guest. In theory it should eventually fix
> itself, but it can take a very long time to recover - gets worse
> the longer you have been hibernating for too

Happens all the time for me, it is not a good experience.
Isn't there a way to save the instance from the hypervisor *and* on top
of that emulate a quick S3 to the guest so that it will just adjust the
clock w/o causing the VM to lock up ?

Simo.

-- 
Simo Sorce
Sr. Principal Software Engineer
Red Hat, Inc
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 11:40 AM Simo Sorce  wrote:

> On Wed, 2018-10-17 at 11:02 -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 10:55 AM Samuel Sieb  wrote:
> >
> > > On 10/17/18 8:52 AM, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> > > > Again, I use gmail and things look perfectly fine for me.
> > >
> > > That's because gmail only shows the HTML part.
> > >
> >
> > Ah... so it's a client issue.  Good to know.
>
> No it is a service issue that just happen not to affect *your* client
> of choice. There is a big difference.
>
> Simo.
>

You need to read the entire thread in context, including subsequent
responses.  I realize that can be difficult on a mailing list, with
all the top-posting, conversation snippets, etc.
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

On Wed, 2018-10-17 at 11:02 -0700, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 10:55 AM Samuel Sieb  wrote:
> 
> > On 10/17/18 8:52 AM, Gerald B. Cox wrote:
> > > Again, I use gmail and things look perfectly fine for me.
> > 
> > That's because gmail only shows the HTML part.
> > 
> 
> Ah... so it's a client issue.  Good to know.

No it is a service issue that just happen not to affect *your* client
of choice. There is a big difference.

Simo.

-- 
Simo Sorce
Sr. Principal Software Engineer
Red Hat, Inc
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

On Wed, 2018-10-17 at 13:14 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 05:00:32PM +, Anderson, Charles R wrote:
> > How do I start a thread on Discourse from email? We should start this
> > discussion over there so we can experience it ourselves.
> 
> So, yeah, that's a thing: we currently have that feature turned off, because
> I'm worried about spam. So you can reply to threads, but not start them.
> 
> Discourse is *definitely* not a smooth, drop-in mailing list replacement
> like Hyperkitty is.

I am trying to understand what is the goal of moving development
discussions to Discourse in this case.

Is it to deter busy people from participating in the
hopes of some fleeting engagement by superficially interested people
will fill the void ?

Simo.

-- 
Simo Sorce
Sr. Principal Software Engineer
Red Hat, Inc
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Fedora 29 Final status is No-Go

2018-10-18 Thread Ben Cotton

Release status of Fedora 29 Final is NO-GO.

Due to open blocker bugs, Fedora 29 Final was declared "No-Go". The
Final release will change to the "Target #1" date (October 30)[1].

For more information, please check the minutes[2] from the F29 Final
Go/No-Go meeting.

The next Go/No-Go meeting[3] will be held Thursday, 2018-10-25 at 1700
UTC in #fedora-meeting-1.

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/29/Schedule
[2] 
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2018-10-18/f29-final-go_no_go-meeting.2018-10-18-17.00.html
[3] https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/meeting/9379/?from_date=2018-10-22

-- 
Ben Cotton
Fedora Program Manager
TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
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[Test-Announce] Fedora 29 Final status is No-Go

2018-10-18 Thread Ben Cotton

Release status of Fedora 29 Final is NO-GO.

Due to open blocker bugs, Fedora 29 Final was declared "No-Go". The
Final release will change to the "Target #1" date (October 30)[1].

For more information, please check the minutes[2] from the F29 Final
Go/No-Go meeting.

The next Go/No-Go meeting[3] will be held Thursday, 2018-10-25 at 1700
UTC in #fedora-meeting-1.

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/29/Schedule
[2] 
https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2018-10-18/f29-final-go_no_go-meeting.2018-10-18-17.00.html
[3] https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/meeting/9379/?from_date=2018-10-22

-- 
Ben Cotton
Fedora Program Manager
TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
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Fedora rawhide compose report: 20181018.n.0 changes

2018-10-18 Thread Fedora Rawhide Report

OLD: Fedora-Rawhide-20181017.n.0
NEW: Fedora-Rawhide-20181018.n.0

= SUMMARY =
Added images:0
Dropped images:  0
Added packages:  1
Dropped packages:10
Upgraded packages:   43
Downgraded packages: 0

Size of added packages:  14.53 KiB
Size of dropped packages:11.57 MiB
Size of upgraded packages:   2.68 GiB
Size of downgraded packages: 0 B

Size change of upgraded packages:   904.94 MiB
Size change of downgraded packages: 0 B

= ADDED IMAGES =

= DROPPED IMAGES =

= ADDED PACKAGES =
Package: fedora-chromium-config-1.0-0.fc30
Summary: Fedora customizations for Chromium/Chrome
RPMs:fedora-chromium-config
Size:14.53 KiB


= DROPPED PACKAGES =
Package: bear-0.7.0-0.22.20161230git781ec80.fc29
Summary: Game engine and editors dedicated to creating great 2D games
RPMs:bear-devel
Size:1.32 MiB

Package: diorite-4.11.0-1.fc29
Summary: Utility and widget library for Nuvola Player
RPMs:diorite diorite-devel
Size:2.32 MiB

Package: nuvola-app-owncloud-music-1.2-5.fc29
Summary: OwnCloud Music web app script for Nuvola Player 3.1
RPMs:nuvola-app-owncloud-music
Size:117.22 KiB

Package: nuvola-app-siriusxm-1.3-5.fc29
Summary: SiriusXM script for Nuvola Player 3
RPMs:nuvola-app-siriusxm
Size:116.78 KiB

Package: nuvola-app-tunein-1.3-5.fc29
Summary: Integration of TuneIn into linux desktop via Nuvola 3
RPMs:nuvola-app-tunein
Size:164.70 KiB

Package: nuvolaruntime-4.11.0-1.fc29
Summary: Tight integration of web apps with your desktop
RPMs:nuvolaruntime nuvolaruntime-devel
Size:4.16 MiB

Package: nuvolasdk-4.12.0-1.fc29
Summary: SDK for building Nuvola Player's web app scripts
RPMs:nuvolasdk
Size:975.82 KiB

Package: obnam-1.21-7.fc29
Summary: An easy, secure backup program
RPMs:obnam
Size:2.18 MiB

Package: seivot-1.18-10.fc29
Summary: Benchmarking tool for backup programs
RPMs:seivot
Size:35.71 KiB

Package: summain-0.20-8.fc29
Summary: File manifest generator
RPMs:summain
Size:228.15 KiB


= UPGRADED PACKAGES =
Package:  dnf-plugins-core-4.0.0-2.fc30
Old package:  dnf-plugins-core-4.0.0-1.fc30
Summary:  Core Plugins for DNF
RPMs: dnf-plugins-core dnf-utils python3-dnf-plugin-leaves 
python3-dnf-plugin-local python3-dnf-plugin-show-leaves 
python3-dnf-plugin-versionlock python3-dnf-plugins-core
Size: 280.52 KiB
Size change:  692 B
Changelog:
  * Wed Oct 17 2018 Jaroslav Mracek  - 4.0.0-2
  - Allow build of dnf-utils in F29


Package:  duplicity-0.7.18.2-1.fc30
Old package:  duplicity-0.7.18.1-2.fc30
Summary:  Encrypted bandwidth-efficient backup using rsync algorithm
RPMs: duplicity
Size: 3.25 MiB
Size change:  660 B
Changelog:
  * Wed Oct 17 2018 Gwyn Ciesla  - 0.7.18.2-1
  - 0.7.18.2.


Package:  eclipse-cdt-2:9.5.3-5.fc30
Old package:  eclipse-cdt-2:9.5.3-4.1.fc30
Summary:  Eclipse C/C++ Development Tools (CDT) plugin
RPMs: eclipse-cdt eclipse-cdt-arduino eclipse-cdt-docker 
eclipse-cdt-llvm eclipse-cdt-native eclipse-cdt-parsers eclipse-cdt-qt 
eclipse-cdt-sdk eclipse-cdt-tests
Added RPMs:   eclipse-cdt-arduino eclipse-cdt-docker eclipse-cdt-llvm 
eclipse-cdt-native eclipse-cdt-parsers eclipse-cdt-qt eclipse-cdt-sdk 
eclipse-cdt-tests
Size: 906.25 MiB
Size change:  906.18 MiB
Changelog:
  * Wed Oct 17 2018 Jeff Johnston  - 2:9.5.3-5
  - Remove provides/requires from CDT standalone debugger


Package:  elementary-camera-1.0.2-1.fc30
Old package:  elementary-camera-1.0.1-1.fc29
Summary:  Camera app designed for elementary
RPMs: elementary-camera
Size: 447.06 KiB
Size change:  -17.02 KiB
Changelog:
  * Wed Oct 17 2018 Fabio Valentini  - 1.0.2-1
  - Update to version 1.0.2.


Package:  elementary-capnet-assist-2.2.2-1.fc30
Old package:  elementary-capnet-assist-2.2.1-1.fc30
Summary:  Captive Portal Assistant for elementary
RPMs: elementary-capnet-assist
Size: 514.97 KiB
Size change:  16.14 KiB
Changelog:
  * Wed Oct 17 2018 Fabio Valentini  - 2.2.2-1
  - Update to version 2.2.2.


Package:  et-5.1.7-1.fc30
Old package:  et-5.1.5-2.fc30
Summary:  Remote shell that survives IP roaming and disconnect
RPMs: et
Size: 3.28 MiB
Size change:  27.25 KiB
Changelog:
  * Tue Oct 09 2018 Jason Gauci  - 5.1.5-2.fc30
  - https://github.com/MisterTea/EternalTerminal/releases/tag/et-v5.1.5
  - https://github.com/MisterTea/EternalTerminal/releases/tag/et-v5.1.4
  - https://github.com/MisterTea/EternalTerminal/releases/tag/et-v5.1.3
  - https://github.com/MisterTea/EternalTerminal/releases/tag/et-v5.1.2
  - https://github.com/MisterTea/EternalTerminal/releases/tag/et-v5.1.1

  * Wed Oct 17 2018 Michel Alexandre Salim  - 
5.1.7-1.fc30
  - https://github.com/MisterTea/EternalTerminal/releases/tag/et-v5.1.7
  - https://github.com/MisterTea/EternalTerminal/releases/tag/et-v5.1.6


Package:  exo-0.12.3-1.fc30
Old package:  exo-0.12.2-20

Re: Fedora 29 compose report: 20181017.n.0 changes

2018-10-18 Thread Fabio Valentini

On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 6:08 PM Fedora Branched Report
 wrote:
>
> OLD: Fedora-29-20181016.n.0
> NEW: Fedora-29-20181017.n.0
>
> = SUMMARY =
> Added images:1
> Dropped images:  4
> Added packages:  0
> Dropped packages:0
> Upgraded packages:   3
> Downgraded packages: 0
>
> Size of added packages:  0 B
> Size of dropped packages:0 B
> Size of upgraded packages:   64.65 MiB
> Size of downgraded packages: 0 B
>
> Size change of upgraded packages:   578.16 KiB
> Size change of downgraded packages: 0 B
>
> = ADDED IMAGES =
> Image: Container_Minimal_Base docker s390x
> Path: 
> Container/s390x/images/Fedora-Container-Minimal-Base-29-20181017.n.0.s390x.tar.xz
>
> = DROPPED IMAGES =
> Image: AtomicHost dvd-ostree x86_64
> Path: 
> AtomicHost/x86_64/iso/Fedora-AtomicHost-ostree-x86_64-29-20181016.n.0.iso
> Image: AtomicHost dvd-ostree ppc64le
> Path: 
> AtomicHost/ppc64le/iso/Fedora-AtomicHost-ostree-ppc64le-29-20181016.n.0.iso
> Image: Silverblue dvd-ostree x86_64
> Path: 
> Silverblue/x86_64/iso/Fedora-Silverblue-ostree-x86_64-29-20181016.n.0.iso
> Image: AtomicHost dvd-ostree aarch64
> Path: 
> AtomicHost/aarch64/iso/Fedora-AtomicHost-ostree-aarch64-29-20181016.n.0.iso
>
> = ADDED PACKAGES =
>
> = DROPPED PACKAGES =
>
> = UPGRADED PACKAGES =
> Package:  appstream-0.12.2-2.fc29
> Old package:  appstream-0.12.2-1.fc29
> Summary:  Utilities to generate, maintain and access the AppStream 
> database
> RPMs: appstream appstream-devel appstream-qt appstream-qt-devel 
> appstream-vala
> Size: 12.11 MiB
> Size change:  -11.23 KiB
> Changelog:
>   * Fri Oct 12 2018 Kalev Lember  - 0.12.2-2
>   - Backport an upstream fix for empty content_rating tags
>
>
> Package:  appstream-data-29-7.fc29
> Old package:  appstream-data-29-6.fc29
> Summary:  Fedora AppStream metadata
> RPMs: appstream-data
> Size: 16.37 MiB
> Size change:  406.72 KiB
> Changelog:
>   * Wed Oct 10 2018 Kalev Lember  - 29-7
>   - New metadata version
>
>
> Package:  podman-1:0.10.1-1.gite4a1553.fc29
> Old package:  podman-1:0.9.3.1-1.git1cd906d.fc29
> Summary:  Manage Pods, Containers and Container Images
> RPMs: podman podman-docker python3-podman python3-pypodman
> Size: 36.18 MiB
> Size change:  182.67 KiB
> Changelog:
>   * Tue Oct 02 2018 Dan Walsh  - 1:0.9.3.1-2.git1cd906d
>   - Fix podman-docker to require proper version.
>
>   * Fri Oct 12 2018 Dan Walsh  - 1:0.10.1-1.gite4a1553
>   - Upstream 10.1 release
>

I'm confused by this podman build. Especially so with my Packaging
Committee hat on.

- changelog message says it's version 10.1
- %{version} is 0.10.1
- github project has 0.10.1 tag, but its commit hash doesn't match
what's built here
- Release matches the (old!) pattern for a snapshot build
- Epoch is set to 1 if fedora > 28?

Looking at the .spec file didn't help me, it's a hot mess.

Can somebody enlighten me about:
Is this a snapshot build? Is it a stable release?
If it's a stable build, why doesn't the commit hash match up with the
appropriate tag?

Fabio

>
> = DOWNGRADED PACKAGES =
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Re: resume= kernel cmdline arg by default on servers

2018-10-18 Thread tonynelson

> tonynel...@georgeanelson.com wrote:
>> Â Stephen Gallagher said:
>> >Â I can't see anyone putting a Server or Atomic Host into
>> hibernation,Â though. ...
>> What happens when the "server" is a (K)VM on a desktop/laptop that is
>> hibernated? I know what I'd want to happen.
>
> When I suspend my Fedora laptop (not hibernate because that doesn't
> work) with CentOS running in KVM, there is a rather high probability
> that the VM will enter an infinite loop when resumed.

/That's/ not what I'd want.  But, since hibernate works on my laptop I
don't suspend.


>> Sent from my LG Mobile
>
> By the way, are you aware that your LG Mobile is too dumb to reply to
> an email correctly? Your messages break the threading.

No, but Android Mail sucks in very many ways.  Replying by webmail.
Anyone know of a good Android email client?


TonyN.:'   
  '  
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Re: resume= kernel cmdline arg by default on servers

2018-10-18 Thread tonynel...@georgeanelson.com

Stephen Gallagher said:
>> What happens when the "server" is a (K)VM on a desktop/laptop that is 
>> hibernated? I know what I'd want to happen.
> 
> See the other section of this thread; The VM hypervisor handles this,> not 
> the client system (by default).I did see it, but I don't understand. I think 
> you're saying that whenthe system hibernates that the hypervisor will take 
> care of KVMs,so they don't need to do anything (except catch up when theywake 
> up). A resume= is not needed for VMs.-- __TonyN  
> Sent from my LG Mobile___
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Re: Building Steam Proton on Fedora

2018-10-18 Thread Dridi Boukelmoune

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 5:21 PM Rex Dieter  wrote:
>
> Steam is currently available from rpmfusion, fwiw/fyi/ymmv :
> https://pkgs.rpmfusion.org/cgit/nonfree/steam.git/

It is, and as usual, thanks to the rpmfusion folks! The reason why I
tried this outside of Fedora first is that steam is part of the
nonfree repo and as I said in my previous email I can't run non-Steam
programs via Steam Play, so I need to run Proton directly.

Installing steam from rpmfusion wouldn't help unfortunately.

Dridi
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Re: resume= kernel cmdline arg by default on servers

2018-10-18 Thread Cole Robinson


On 10/18/2018 11:21 AM, Daniel P. Berrangé wrote:

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 05:16:19PM +0200, Björn Persson wrote:

tonynel...@georgeanelson.com wrote:

  Stephen Gallagher said:

  I can't see anyone putting a Server or Atomic Host into hibernation, though. 
...

What happens when the "server" is a (K)VM on a desktop/laptop that is 
hibernated? I know what I'd want to happen.


When I suspend my Fedora laptop (not hibernate because that doesn't
work) with CentOS running in KVM, there is a rather high probability
that the VM will enter an infinite loop when resumed.


That will likely be QEMU trying to inject many hours worth of
interrupts to the guest. In theory it should eventually fix
itself, but it can take a very long time to recover - gets worse
the longer you have been hibernating for too



With centos VMs this is a kernel bug AFAICT that was fixed upstream 
sometime between 4.18 and 4.19. Though the actual fix hasn't been 
bisected/identified. Bug was rejected for RHEL though...


https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1434566

- Cole
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Re: Fedora 29 Final Release Readiness meeting

2018-10-18 Thread Ben Cotton

On Fri, Oct 12, 2018 at 11:30 AM Ben Cotton  wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> Join us on irc.freenode.net in #fedora-meeting-1 for the Fedora 29
> Final Release Readiness meeting. This meeting will be held on Thursday,
> 2018-10-18 at 19:00 UTC.
>
> We will meet to make sure we are coordinated and ready for the Final
> release of Fedora 29. Please note that this meeting will be held even
> if the release is delayed at the Go/No-Go meeting on the same day two
> hours earlier.
>
> You may receive this message several times in order to open this
> meeting to the teams and to raise awareness, so hopefully more team
> representatives will come to this meeting. This meeting works best
> when we have representatives from all of the teams.
>
> For more information, see
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Readiness_Meetings.
>
> View the meeting on Fedocal:
> https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/Fedora%20release/2018/10/18/#m9380
>
Final reminder!

-- 
Ben Cotton
Fedora Program Manager
TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
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Re: resume= kernel cmdline arg by default on servers

2018-10-18 Thread Daniel P . Berrangé

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 05:16:19PM +0200, Björn Persson wrote:
> tonynel...@georgeanelson.com wrote:
> >  Stephen Gallagher said:
> > > I can't see anyone putting a Server or Atomic Host into hibernation, 
> > >though. ...  
> > What happens when the "server" is a (K)VM on a desktop/laptop that is 
> > hibernated? I know what I'd want to happen.
> 
> When I suspend my Fedora laptop (not hibernate because that doesn't
> work) with CentOS running in KVM, there is a rather high probability
> that the VM will enter an infinite loop when resumed.

That will likely be QEMU trying to inject many hours worth of
interrupts to the guest. In theory it should eventually fix
itself, but it can take a very long time to recover - gets worse
the longer you have been hibernating for too


Regards,
Daniel
-- 
|: https://berrange.com  -o-https://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange :|
|: https://libvirt.org -o-https://fstop138.berrange.com :|
|: https://entangle-photo.org-o-https://www.instagram.com/dberrange :|
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Re: Building Steam Proton on Fedora

2018-10-18 Thread Rex Dieter

Dridi Boukelmoune wrote:

...
> Even if the above was solved, the way Proton is built is a clear no-no
> for Fedora because of bundling and a messy build system that requires
> an internet access.
> 
> Steam second.

Steam is currently available from rpmfusion, fwiw/fyi/ymmv :
https://pkgs.rpmfusion.org/cgit/nonfree/steam.git/

-- Rex
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Re: resume= kernel cmdline arg by default on servers

2018-10-18 Thread Björn Persson

tonynel...@georgeanelson.com wrote:
>  Stephen Gallagher said:
> > I can't see anyone putting a Server or Atomic Host into hibernation, 
> >though. ...  
> What happens when the "server" is a (K)VM on a desktop/laptop that is 
> hibernated? I know what I'd want to happen.

When I suspend my Fedora laptop (not hibernate because that doesn't
work) with CentOS running in KVM, there is a rather high probability
that the VM will enter an infinite loop when resumed.

> Sent from my LG Mobile

By the way, are you aware that your LG Mobile is too dumb to reply to
an email correctly? Your messages break the threading.

Björn Persson


pgpOx2CRUOqx1.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signatur
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Building Steam Proton on Fedora

2018-10-18 Thread Dridi Boukelmoune

Hello,

Following the discussion on raising the fileno limit to make Steam
Proton [1] work well on Fedora I was wondering if anyone managed to
build it and document it somewhere. I believe someone did it since
they reported completely stable compatibility [2] on Fedora 28 but
couldn't find build instructions.

I tried and spent a fair amount of cycles on this before giving up and
it appears to me that the situation is quite the mess.

Fedora first.

I didn't manage to use schroot that Proton relies on according to its
README because the apt package in Fedora is in fact apt-rpm. I
understand that it's solving a problem that often users will see "apt
install this" or "apt-get install that" on the web and when package
names match with Debian derivatives then things JustWork(tm). But when
what you want is regular apt, then you are on your own. I managed to
build it from source but then _some_ things don't work and I only have
so many cycles to spend.

It would be nice to have the regular apt package too so savvy users
could pick it over the apt-rpm variant. Other than that, thanks to the
dpkg-related package maintainers, I can do most of my foreign
packaging work thanks to them. But those tools are also a constant
reminder that I wish Debian would have a mock equivalent (with no
complicated setup and privilege requirements, something that just
works).

Even if the above was solved, the way Proton is built is a clear no-no
for Fedora because of bundling and a messy build system that requires
an internet access.

Steam second.

So I tried to build Proton in a Debian VM and things get ugly real
quick. The README has been updated since I last tried so maybe I
should get another round.

The Steam Runtime is based on Ubuntu 12.04, no longer supported.
Things happen in a chroot in an automated manner so you get the
default apt configuration fetching packages over HTTP. To add insult
to injury the Ubuntu 12.04 chroot failed to fetch the PGP key of the
packages.

Eventually I decided it was OK to skip the GPG check since it was only
a temp VM but then ran into more build problems and gave up when I
encountered one were the workaround didn't work.

Ubuntu at last.

So, new VM, using Ubuntu 18.04 this time. I tried to apt install steam
but ran into a bug [3] where the proposed and accepted solution didn't
work for me (I didn't keep the link to the thread, I believe it was on
the Steam forums). Trying to install the missing dependencies removed
apt from the system. Fedora multilib FTW!

Again, new Ubuntu VM, I tried to install Steam from the software
center this time and it worked. I tried to install Proton several
times because it kept crashing and finally I was able to try a game
from my library that didn't work in fullscreen mode on Fedora. It
appeared to work fine with Proton.

Then I downloaded the program I'm interested into, but I can't run it
with Steam Play if it doesn't come from Steam. I tried to run Proton
from the command line but to no avail. Back to square one.

Does anyone have working build instructions on Fedora? I'll give a try
to the updated README but right now the fileno limit is the least of
my concerns... Sorry for the long rant.

Thanks,
Dridi

[1] https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton
[2] https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/wiki/Completely-Stable
[3]
https://askubuntu.com/questions/1063040/problem-with-nstalling-steam-on-ubuntu-18-04-lts-bionic-beaver
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

2018-10-18 Thread John Florian


On 10/17/18 4:27 PM, Tomasz Torcz wrote:

On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 02:54:23PM -0400, John Florian wrote:

With things like reddit or LWN, you get to read it
over and over and over again if you really want to see whats new now.

   https://lwn.net/Comments/unread will show you comments posted
afteryour last visit, with one post in grey to provide context.
Requires subscription, though.


Ha!  All these years later and now I learn this.  Thanks Tomasz for 
sharing that.  And my apologies to Corbet and friends for my lack of 
awareness.


This is exactly why I love being wrong.
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Re: resume= kernel cmdline arg by default on servers

2018-10-18 Thread Stephen Gallagher

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 9:35 AM tonynel...@georgeanelson.com
 wrote:
>
>  Stephen Gallagher said:
>
> > I can't see anyone putting a Server or Atomic Host into hibernation, 
> > though. ...
>
> What happens when the "server" is a (K)VM on a desktop/laptop that is 
> hibernated? I know what I'd want to happen.

See the other section of this thread; The VM hypervisor handles this,
not the client system (by default).
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Re: Attention Gmail users, please turn off HTML mail

2018-10-18 Thread tonynel...@georgeanelson.com

Bruno said:> On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 14:48:52 -0400,
  "tonynel...@georgeanelson.com"  wrote:
>>> ... For html only messages you would either need to reject them or rewrite 
>>> them, both of which have issues.
>>I've used elinks to do that in an email forum I wrote. It worked better than 
>>doing it with, say, Beautiful Soup.
>
>That is a big risk on your list serve processor. I would want to use something 
>a lot safer than elinks (or lynx) to parse unsolicited email messages. What I 
>do at work is use a simple perl script, but it doesn't do a great job.It's 
>after I've stripped it in Beautiful 
>Soup.___TonyN.:'
>                                          Sent from my LG Mobile___
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Re: resume= kernel cmdline arg by default on servers

2018-10-18 Thread tonynel...@georgeanelson.com

 Stephen Gallagher said:
> I can't see anyone putting a Server or Atomic Host into hibernation, though. 
>...
What happens when the "server" is a (K)VM on a desktop/laptop that is 
hibernated? I know what I'd want to happen.
___TonyN.:' 
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 5:33 AM Matthew Miller 
wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 01:39:30PM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > I cannot *ever* recommend, in good conscious, moving to Discourse for
> > Fedora development discussions.
> >
> > However, I think it's fantastic for user support, as those are much
> > more context free, incidental, and so on. I've wished for a long time
>
> Yeah, I'm not suggesting moving all development discussion there, although
> I think there are people who *do* want to do development discussion that
> way, and I wouldn't want to _block_ that.
>

Actually, I think that just creating a new discourse instance for
discussions keeping the mailing
lists around would be a good solution.  You wouldn't have to worry about
registration.  People who wanted
to use it or try it out could do that themselves - and you wouldn't have to
be concerned about moving archives,
etc.  You could then just let normal attrition handle it.
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Re: resume= kernel cmdline arg by default on servers

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 01:41:21PM +0100, Daniel P. Berrangé wrote:
> > > There might be some use for it for VMs
> > Doesn't the hypervisor do that itself for VMs?
> You have a choice, but most people do use hypervisor save/restore. It
> is rare to see guest S3/S5 save/restore used in VMs.

Okay then. I was remembering this from 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Virt_Guest_Suspend_Hibernate

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Re: raise fileno limit to make Steam Proton / Wine+esync work well in Fedora

2018-10-18 Thread Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 11:51:57AM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Do, 18.10.18 11:34, Kamil Paral (kpa...@redhat.com) wrote:
> 
> > > We merged the PR that bumps RLIMIT_NOFILE to 256K into systemd
> > > upstream yesterday. It should trickle into Fedora and the other
> > > distros as soon as we do the next release.
> > >
> > > https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/10244
> > 
> > Lennart, Zbyszek, would it be possible to backport the change also to F29's
> > systemd (F28 as well would be ideal), so that Wine esync/Steam Proton works
> > for people out of the box earlier than on F30?
> 
> Quite frankly I'd wait a bit so that people can test this first across
> the various development distros, before we propagate this to stable
> distros.

Yeah, this needs to be tested in rawhide first for a while before
being pushed to stable Fedora.

That said, I think we should be able to update systemd to v240 during
the lifetime of F29. We have been putting a lot of effort into
maintaining backwards compatibility in all changes being done in
systemd upstream, and I'm optimistic that we can make systemd 240
compatible enough to be updated in F29. This would be the first time.

Zbyszek
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Re: resume= kernel cmdline arg by default on servers

2018-10-18 Thread Dusty Mabe



On 10/18/2018 07:58 AM, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 11:27 PM Dusty Mabe  wrote:
>>
>>
>> For BZ1206936 [1] we started adding resume= kernel command line by
>> default [2] in fedora installs. This is causing issues for ostree
>> based systems, which I haven't fully investigated yet, but figured
>> I would ask the question:
>>
>> Is resume=/path/to/swap something we really want on server installs
>> like Fedora Server and Fedora Atomic Host?
>>
> 
> It seems *unnecessary*, but I'm not sure I understand what problems it
> causes. Could you got into more detail there?

Yeah. https://pagure.io/atomic-wg/issue/513#comment-536736

Basically for some reason on ostree based systems the LV isn't available
before the systemd unit for hibernation runs and boot has to wait for that
unit to timeout before continuing. I'm still investigating why that is.

> 
> I can't see anyone putting a Server or Atomic Host into hibernation,
> though. Does this just direct the kernel where that should go if
> hibernation is requested, or does it reserve space or something for
> it?
> 
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Re: resume= kernel cmdline arg by default on servers

2018-10-18 Thread Daniel P . Berrangé

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 08:32:56AM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 8:29 AM Matthew Miller  
> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 07:58:33AM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> > > I can't see anyone putting a Server or Atomic Host into hibernation,
> > > though. Does this just direct the kernel where that should go if
> > > hibernation is requested, or does it reserve space or something for
> > > it?
> >
> > There might be some use for it for VMs
> 
> Doesn't the hypervisor do that itself for VMs?

You have a choice, but most people do use hypervisor save/restore. It
is rare to see guest S3/S5 save/restore used in VMs.

The hypervisor initiated save/restore VM state to a file will work with
any OS, as it is transparent to the guest. The saved state can also be
explicitly managed by the host mgmt tools, letting you do snapshotting
and rollback of state, if you combine memory state with file snapshots.

The key downside is that it is transparent to the guest, so when you
restore the guest, its clock will be wrong and needs fixing / catching
up.

With guest initiated save/restore you're not using any additional host
resources and its all confined in the guest execution environment. The
guest knows to update its clock upon restore since it is aware of what
is happening. The downside is that not all guest OS are reliable at doing
S3/S5, and for that matter not all hypervisors will actually advertize
S3/S5 support in their BIOS. IIRC, RHEL KVM explicitly disables this.

Regards,
Daniel
-- 
|: https://berrange.com  -o-https://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange :|
|: https://libvirt.org -o-https://fstop138.berrange.com :|
|: https://entangle-photo.org-o-https://www.instagram.com/dberrange :|
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Re: resume= kernel cmdline arg by default on servers

2018-10-18 Thread Stephen Gallagher

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 8:29 AM Matthew Miller  wrote:
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 07:58:33AM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> > I can't see anyone putting a Server or Atomic Host into hibernation,
> > though. Does this just direct the kernel where that should go if
> > hibernation is requested, or does it reserve space or something for
> > it?
>
> There might be some use for it for VMs

Doesn't the hypervisor do that itself for VMs?
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 01:39:30PM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> I cannot *ever* recommend, in good conscious, moving to Discourse for
> Fedora development discussions.
> 
> However, I think it's fantastic for user support, as those are much
> more context free, incidental, and so on. I've wished for a long time

Yeah, I'm not suggesting moving all development discussion there, although
I think there are people who *do* want to do development discussion that
way, and I wouldn't want to _block_ that.

-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
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Re: Fedora should replace mailing lists with Discourse

On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 11:29:33AM -0400, Ben Rosser wrote:
> I am not saying switching to Discourse is a *bad* idea. I am saying
> that I, at least, would like to see a more serious proposal than
> simply "just do it because it's better". That might require switching
> one list over and seeing how well it works (and it sounded like the
> Council was considering doing this with council-discuss, which is
> probably a good first step).

Yeah, I certainly am not suggesting we switch devel list, at least not for
the forseeable future. Even if this whole thread kind of started with
observations about actual problems we are seeing with the world today and
mailing lists.

-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
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Re: resume= kernel cmdline arg by default on servers

On Thu, Oct 18, 2018 at 07:58:33AM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> I can't see anyone putting a Server or Atomic Host into hibernation,
> though. Does this just direct the kernel where that should go if
> hibernation is requested, or does it reserve space or something for
> it?

There might be some use for it for VMs

-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
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[Review swap] libneurosim: Common interfaces for neuronal simulators

2018-10-18 Thread Ankur Sinha

Hello,

Would someone like to please swap reviews? I'd like to get
libneurosim[1] reviewed since it's needed for other NeuroFedora
packages. This one is also built with and without MPI support, so the
spec is slightly longer than normal.

[1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1638968

-- 
Thanks,
Regards,

Ankur Sinha "FranciscoD"

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha
Time zone: Europe/London


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Re: Moving on from Council Engineering role

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 12:53:51PM -0400, Josh Boyer wrote:
> These are important times for Fedora and I'm excited for the future!
> I will continue to participate as I can and I'm looking forward to
> seeing the directions we take as a project and as a distribution.  It
> has been an honor to be part of the Fedora Council for the past few
> years.  Thank you to the community for trusting me with that role for
> so long.

Thanks Josh! As I said to you in private, the only reason I'm not
complaining about this is that I am confident that we won't lose you from
Fedora in general. I've really appreciated your voice on a a lot of things,
and especially the bias towards doing and trying things.

Also, welcome, Petr! I'll go through all the paperwork and stuff to get you
onboarded.

-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
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Re: resume= kernel cmdline arg by default on servers

2018-10-18 Thread Tom Hughes


On 18/10/2018 12:58, Stephen Gallagher wrote:

On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 11:27 PM Dusty Mabe  wrote:


For BZ1206936 [1] we started adding resume= kernel command line by
default [2] in fedora installs. This is causing issues for ostree
based systems, which I haven't fully investigated yet, but figured
I would ask the question:

Is resume=/path/to/swap something we really want on server installs
like Fedora Server and Fedora Atomic Host?


It seems *unnecessary*, but I'm not sure I understand what problems it
causes. Could you got into more detail there?

I can't see anyone putting a Server or Atomic Host into hibernation,
though. Does this just direct the kernel where that should go if
hibernation is requested, or does it reserve space or something for
it?


AFAIK it tells the kernel where to look for a hibernation image to
restore from - so it normally points at one of the swap partitions.

If the kernel finds a hibernation image on the specified device then
it will restore that and switch to it otherwise it will just continue
booting as normal.

Tom

--
Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu)
http://compton.nu/
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Re: resume= kernel cmdline arg by default on servers

2018-10-18 Thread Stephen Gallagher

On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 11:27 PM Dusty Mabe  wrote:
>
>
> For BZ1206936 [1] we started adding resume= kernel command line by
> default [2] in fedora installs. This is causing issues for ostree
> based systems, which I haven't fully investigated yet, but figured
> I would ask the question:
>
> Is resume=/path/to/swap something we really want on server installs
> like Fedora Server and Fedora Atomic Host?
>

It seems *unnecessary*, but I'm not sure I understand what problems it
causes. Could you got into more detail there?

I can't see anyone putting a Server or Atomic Host into hibernation,
though. Does this just direct the kernel where that should go if
hibernation is requested, or does it reserve space or something for
it?
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[Bug 1640572] New: Upgrade perl-Test-PostgreSQL to 1.27

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1640572

Bug ID: 1640572
   Summary: Upgrade perl-Test-PostgreSQL to 1.27
   Product: Fedora
   Version: rawhide
 Component: perl-Test-PostgreSQL
  Assignee: ppi...@redhat.com
  Reporter: jples...@redhat.com
QA Contact: extras...@fedoraproject.org
CC: perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org, ppi...@redhat.com



Latest Fedora delivers 1.26 version. Upstream released 1.27. When you have free
time, please upgrade it

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[Bug 1640571] New: Upgrade perl-Mojolicious to 8.03

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1640571

Bug ID: 1640571
   Summary: Upgrade perl-Mojolicious to 8.03
   Product: Fedora
   Version: rawhide
 Component: perl-Mojolicious
  Assignee: emman...@seyman.fr
  Reporter: jples...@redhat.com
QA Contact: extras...@fedoraproject.org
CC: emman...@seyman.fr,
perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org,
robinlee.s...@gmail.com, yan...@declera.com



Latest Fedora delivers 8.02 version. Upstream released 8.03. When you have free
time, please upgrade it

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[Bug 1639574] Upgrade perl-Data-Types to 0.14

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1639574



--- Comment #1 from Robin Lee  ---
*** Bug 1640564 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

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[Bug 1640564] Upgrade perl-Data-Types to 0.14

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1640564

Robin Lee  changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |CLOSED
 Resolution|--- |DUPLICATE
Last Closed||2018-10-18 06:37:14



--- Comment #1 from Robin Lee  ---


*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 1639574 ***

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[Bug 1640565] New: perl-DateTime-Locale-1.23 is available

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1640565

Bug ID: 1640565
   Summary: perl-DateTime-Locale-1.23 is available
   Product: Fedora
   Version: rawhide
 Component: perl-DateTime-Locale
  Keywords: FutureFeature, Triaged
  Assignee: jples...@redhat.com
  Reporter: upstream-release-monitor...@fedoraproject.org
QA Contact: extras...@fedoraproject.org
CC: iarn...@gmail.com, jples...@redhat.com,
perl-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org



Latest upstream release: 1.23
Current version/release in rawhide: 1.22-3.fc29
URL: http://search.cpan.org/dist/DateTime-Locale/

Please consult the package updates policy before you issue an update to a
stable branch: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Updates_Policy

More information about the service that created this bug can be found at:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upstream_release_monitoring

Please keep in mind that with any upstream change, there may also be packaging
changes that need to be made. Specifically, please remember that it is your
responsibility to review the new version to ensure that the licensing is still
correct and that no non-free or legally problematic items have been added
upstream.

Based on the information from anitya: 
https://release-monitoring.org/project/6477/

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[Bug 1640564] New: Upgrade perl-Data-Types to 0.14