Re: F40 Change Proposal: F40 Change Proposal: Unify /usr/bin and /usr/sbin (System-Wide)
On fredag 23. februar 2024 02:36:38 CET Neal Gompa wrote: > On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 8:32 PM Sérgio Basto wrote: > > > > > > > On Sun, 2024-01-28 at 20:14 +, Neal Gompa wrote: > > > > > On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 7:54 PM Gary Buhrmaster > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 7:54 PM Aoife Moloney > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wiki -> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Unify_bin_and_sbin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One additional item to consider is to review > > > > the packager guidelines for use of /sbin > > > > (and /usr/sbin) in additional locations from > > > > those involved directly with installing binaries. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In particular, I am thinking of the sysusers > > > > examples where the use of /sbin/nologin > > > > should, perhaps, be changed to /usr/bin/nologin. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are almost certainly other places > > > > in the docs/guidelines. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The documentation updates are always > > > > the most annoying in my experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > We cannot change this without breaking backward compatibility. It'll > > > have to stay that way until RHEL 9 falls out of support. > > > > > > > > > > That is a good argument to not change it , why we need break backward > > compatibility ? > > > > > > > Nah. It just means we don't change any configuration or PATH stuff, > which is fine because the sbin -> bin symlink will cover it. > > Shouldn't sbin be removed from the path with this change? The only reason normal users have sbin in the first place is because of the convenience of tab completion with sudo. When normal users got sbin, it was important that it was at the end of the variable or it would break consolehelper. I’m not sure if consolehelper is ever used anymore but its still part the repo. -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: just to let you know FESCo agreed to a preliminary injunction while we consider this issue
On fredag 9. februar 2024 18:28:15 CET Neal Gompa wrote: > The difference is that we can actually do something about those issues > with Plasma Wayland when people report them. *Tons* of these kinds of > issues were fixed over the past 3 years, and Plasma 6 brings a huge > upgrade around this stuff too. And the whole graphics pipeline is > fully under the control of KDE Plasma, so we can do things we've never > done before. That's why we can do VRR, HDR, VR, mixed-DPI, fractional > scaling, and so much more. > Nobody is saying that this is not awesome stuff but as of today, on some hardware, Wayland is not a great experience. I just booted Fedora-KDE-Live-x86_64-Rawhide-20240207.n.0.iso First impression is great but I’ll start moving(fast) the welcome center window around and the desktop randomly freezes from 30sec to 90ses. This is on a 1080 with nouveau, im not sure if its better with the proprietary drivers. -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: just to let you know FESCo agreed to a preliminary injunction while we consider this issue
On fredag 9. februar 2024 17:41:33 CET Neal Gompa wrote: > On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 11:06 AM Roy Bekken wrote: > > > > > > > On fredag 9. februar 2024 04:04:04 CET Steve Cossette wrote: > > > > > I am not gonna reply to all of that because all we are doing at this > > > point > > > is repeating the same thing. But we are NOT stopping you from using > > > x11. > > > You can either build it yourself and put it on a copr (it’s not like > > > neal > > > is using voodoo in his copr), use the copr we provide or … > > > > > > > > > > This is extremely hostile towards new people trying linux for the very > > first time, asking them to add a copr repo if they have problems with > > wayland to try X11, its unlikely they ever heard this stuff before. > > > > > > > > Most likely they are trying out Fedora on a live media. > > > > > > > And they're not going to get an X11 experience on live media even now. > Wayland has been used for all environment modes since Fedora 36. I am aware if this. So you are saying that its perfectly fine that someone new to linux boot into a desktop that microstutters when they move windows around? > > > > > With the change proposal, fedora (as a distro) the kde sig has proposed > > > to > > > move away from packaging x11 for plasma 6, and by accepting the > > > proposal, > > > fedora (as an entity) agreed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Fedora has a reputation of moving forwards, not going backwards. > > > > > > > > > > Moving so fast forward that they are leaving the users behind. > > > > > > > > If Fedora is so great then why do I find stuff like this? > > https://github.com/Zer0CoolX/Fedora-KDE-Minimal-Install-Guide > > > > > > > > 15 Forks and 167 Stars btw > > > > > > > That is not a particularly good indication of popularity. Also, it's 4 > years out of date. Just like the majority of Fedora users don’t read the devel mailing lists, the majority don’t give stars when they download from gh. Yeah its 4 years old, I don’t know what happens but im gonna take a wild guess and assume that person gave up. -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: just to let you know FESCo agreed to a preliminary injunction while we consider this issue
On fredag 9. februar 2024 04:04:04 CET Steve Cossette wrote: > I am not gonna reply to all of that because all we are doing at this point > is repeating the same thing. But we are NOT stopping you from using x11. > You can either build it yourself and put it on a copr (it’s not like neal > is using voodoo in his copr), use the copr we provide or … > This is extremely hostile towards new people trying linux for the very first time, asking them to add a copr repo if they have problems with wayland to try X11, its unlikely they ever heard this stuff before. Most likely they are trying out Fedora on a live media. > With the change proposal, fedora (as a distro) the kde sig has proposed to > move away from packaging x11 for plasma 6, and by accepting the proposal, > fedora (as an entity) agreed. > > Fedora has a reputation of moving forwards, not going backwards. > Moving so fast forward that they are leaving the users behind. If Fedora is so great then why do I find stuff like this? https://github.com/Zer0CoolX/Fedora-KDE-Minimal-Install-Guide 15 Forks and 167 Stars btw -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: just to let you know FESCo agreed to a preliminary injunction while we consider this issue
On torsdag 8. februar 2024 19:54:58 CET Marc Deop i Argemí wrote: > On Thursday, 8 February 2024 12:33:29 CET Sérgio Basto wrote: > > > you are removing X11 from the builds deliberately , > > > Yes. And the moment this: https://invent.kde.org/plasma/kwin/-/issues/139 > gets implemented we will not have to remove anything. > > (remember that the Change Proposal was approved) > You mean the proposal from kde-sig that they wanted changing to plasma 6 and dropping X11 because they have no interest of supporting it? Don’t see why that should prevent someone else from supporting it, especially after multiple people have come forward and said they relay on X11 to have an functional desktop. -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: just to let you know FESCo agreed to a preliminary injunction while we consider this issue
Kevin Kofler wrote: > > Any press is good press? I believe that the coverage only hurts the > reputation of the Fedora KDE SIG. If you see the discussions, many people > are grabbing their virtual pitchforks, or silently switching distributions > as a result of the news (even though it is actually fake news because I had > already stated back in September that I would reintroduce the X11 packages > should you remove them, a fact that the press has not bothered > researching). Sure, there are some very vocal fanboys screaming "Death to > X11!", but I really do not understand why, because nobody is forcing them > to use X11. There is no need to remove X11 to make Wayland great. > F39 is the only release that with Wayland the desktop haven't soft locked and turned gray seconds after login, so thats a huge improvement. I never been able to even test Wayland before F39. Lets try something basic like opening Kmail and read mails https://imgur.com/a/ZHYNqjq Maybe this “just works” in plasma6, but if it don’t and there is no easy way to change to X11, obviously people will choose the path of least resistance. I don’t even think people will know its because of Wayland and blame it on KDE instead. -- ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
