Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
I have updated and added debugging information and screen shots on these two bugs on F18 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=951643 and F19Live https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=951648 On 14 April 2013 17:23, Aaron Gray aaronngray.li...@gmail.com wrote: I have put in two bugzilla entries :- https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=951643 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=951648 On for F18 and another for F19-Live as they seem to be different results. Aaron On 5 April 2013 12:58, Aaron Gray aaronngray.li...@gmail.com wrote: Yeah I am getting the same messed up graphics results for F19 Alpha Live Spin on both monitors. Better than with F18 which would only work using VESA. BTW The Samsung has the following modes :- - IBM, 640 x 480 - VESA, 800 x 600 - VESA, 800 x 600 - VESA, 1024 x 768 - VESA, 1280 X 960 - VESA, 1280 X 1024 - VESA, 1600 X 1200 - VESA, 1920 X 1200 On 5 April 2013 12:41, Aaron Gray aaronngray.li...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 April 2013 06:59, Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net wrote: On 2013-04-05 01:38 (GMT-0400) Aaron Gray composed: Its quite strange. The Samsung monitor is 1920 x 1200 What other modes does it support? Quite a range AFAICT. This problem on F18 arose using a smaller 1280 by 1024 monitor, which is now giving the same results. --- Aaron -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
I have put in two bugzilla entries :- https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=951643 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=951648 On for F18 and another for F19-Live as they seem to be different results. Aaron On 5 April 2013 12:58, Aaron Gray aaronngray.li...@gmail.com wrote: Yeah I am getting the same messed up graphics results for F19 Alpha Live Spin on both monitors. Better than with F18 which would only work using VESA. BTW The Samsung has the following modes :- - IBM, 640 x 480 - VESA, 800 x 600 - VESA, 800 x 600 - VESA, 1024 x 768 - VESA, 1280 X 960 - VESA, 1280 X 1024 - VESA, 1600 X 1200 - VESA, 1920 X 1200 On 5 April 2013 12:41, Aaron Gray aaronngray.li...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 April 2013 06:59, Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net wrote: On 2013-04-05 01:38 (GMT-0400) Aaron Gray composed: Its quite strange. The Samsung monitor is 1920 x 1200 What other modes does it support? Quite a range AFAICT. This problem on F18 arose using a smaller 1280 by 1024 monitor, which is now giving the same results. --- Aaron -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
On 2013-04-05 01:38 (GMT-0400) Aaron Gray composed: Its quite strange. The Samsung monitor is 1920 x 1200 What other modes does it support? Rage XL is 1600 x 1200 Xorg.0.log does not really say much of any help AFAICR. I'll post a copy later when back at the machine. I have my doubts a video chip design from last century can support any widescreen mode except possibly for the original widescreen TV mode 1920x1080. It's no surprise to me it seems to exhibit apparent wrapping trouble. Do you have some other display that isn't wide to try? -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
On 5 April 2013 06:59, Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net wrote: On 2013-04-05 01:38 (GMT-0400) Aaron Gray composed: Its quite strange. The Samsung monitor is 1920 x 1200 What other modes does it support? Quite a range AFAICT. This problem on F18 arose using a smaller 1280 by 1024 monitor, which is now giving the same results. --- Aaron -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
Yeah I am getting the same messed up graphics results for F19 Alpha Live Spin on both monitors. Better than with F18 which would only work using VESA. BTW The Samsung has the following modes :- - IBM, 640 x 480 - VESA, 800 x 600 - VESA, 800 x 600 - VESA, 1024 x 768 - VESA, 1280 X 960 - VESA, 1280 X 1024 - VESA, 1600 X 1200 - VESA, 1920 X 1200 On 5 April 2013 12:41, Aaron Gray aaronngray.li...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 April 2013 06:59, Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net wrote: On 2013-04-05 01:38 (GMT-0400) Aaron Gray composed: Its quite strange. The Samsung monitor is 1920 x 1200 What other modes does it support? Quite a range AFAICT. This problem on F18 arose using a smaller 1280 by 1024 monitor, which is now giving the same results. --- Aaron -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
Le Jeu 4 avril 2013 00:03, Adam Williamson a écrit : On 03/04/13 02:50 PM, Felix Kaechele wrote: Adam Williamson wrote: And please do realize your graphics adapter is well over a decade old. ATI stopped posting official Windows drivers for it in 2002: http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/legacy-xp.aspx . Quoting from Wikipedia: It was also seen on Intel motherboards, as recently as 2004, and was still used in 2006 for server motherboards. Well, yeah, old. But not ancient ;) I read that too, but 'seen as recently as 2006' still counts as ancient in my book. Especially 'for server motherboards', where kind of the whole point is no-one gives a crap about whether the graphics work, since they likely won't be plugged in 99.99% of the time... Actually, one of the reason the Rage XL was used by almost every server motherboard for half a decade or more, is that is was very well supported in all OSes (Windows, Linux, Enterprise, consumer, recent, old…), and didn't require the latest gamer os or an out-of-tree driver to work. From a manufacturer POW it was a no-user-returns component. -- Nicolas Mailhot -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
Okay a bit more info :- F17 Anaconda is running at the same descent resolution as F16. On F18 '/var/log/Xorg.0.log' is reporting VESA. I will try rolling an F19 ISO next just to rule out that its not a transient bug. In parallel I will see if I can track down what is causing the problem. Any pointers are welcome. On 4 April 2013 18:43, Nicolas Mailhot nicolas.mail...@laposte.net wrote: Le Jeu 4 avril 2013 00:03, Adam Williamson a écrit : On 03/04/13 02:50 PM, Felix Kaechele wrote: Adam Williamson wrote: And please do realize your graphics adapter is well over a decade old. ATI stopped posting official Windows drivers for it in 2002: http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/legacy-xp.aspx . Quoting from Wikipedia: It was also seen on Intel motherboards, as recently as 2004, and was still used in 2006 for server motherboards. Well, yeah, old. But not ancient ;) I read that too, but 'seen as recently as 2006' still counts as ancient in my book. Especially 'for server motherboards', where kind of the whole point is no-one gives a crap about whether the graphics work, since they likely won't be plugged in 99.99% of the time... Actually, one of the reason the Rage XL was used by almost every server motherboard for half a decade or more, is that is was very well supported in all OSes (Windows, Linux, Enterprise, consumer, recent, old…), and didn't require the latest gamer os or an out-of-tree driver to work. From a manufacturer POW it was a no-user-returns component. -- Nicolas Mailhot -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
On Thu, Apr 04, 2013 at 20:38:14 +0100, Aaron Gray aaronngray.li...@gmail.com wrote: Okay a bit more info :- F17 Anaconda is running at the same descent resolution as F16. On F18 '/var/log/Xorg.0.log' is reporting VESA. I will try rolling an F19 ISO next just to rule out that its not a transient bug. In parallel I will see if I can track down what is causing the problem. Any pointers are welcome. I vaugely remember some xorg drivers going away in F18. You might want to try yum list 'xorg*' on f17 and f18 and see if there are differences. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
On 04/04/13 12:46 PM, Bruno Wolff III wrote: On Thu, Apr 04, 2013 at 20:38:14 +0100, Aaron Gray aaronngray.li...@gmail.com wrote: Okay a bit more info :- F17 Anaconda is running at the same descent resolution as F16. On F18 '/var/log/Xorg.0.log' is reporting VESA. I will try rolling an F19 ISO next just to rule out that its not a transient bug. In parallel I will see if I can track down what is causing the problem. Any pointers are welcome. I vaugely remember some xorg drivers going away in F18. You might want to try yum list 'xorg*' on f17 and f18 and see if there are differences. Yeah, that was the same thing I was remembering when I went poking through the list of driver packages in F18/F19. Sorry for not explicitly mentioning it. But indeed, I believe what's happened here is simply that we dropped the native driver between F17 and F18. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
AFAICT it does not seem to be a missing RPM level problem There is just an ATI driver 'xorg-x11-drv-ati.i686' which is available on F16, F17, and F18. It is being loaded on F18 on the HP DL140 G3 with ATI Rage XL video controller. So presumably it is either a problem with the probing being broken, or the Rage XL driver being removed or broken. On 4 April 2013 21:44, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: On 04/04/13 12:46 PM, Bruno Wolff III wrote: On Thu, Apr 04, 2013 at 20:38:14 +0100, Aaron Gray aaronngray.li...@gmail.com wrote: Okay a bit more info :- F17 Anaconda is running at the same descent resolution as F16. On F18 '/var/log/Xorg.0.log' is reporting VESA. I will try rolling an F19 ISO next just to rule out that its not a transient bug. In parallel I will see if I can track down what is causing the problem. Any pointers are welcome. I vaugely remember some xorg drivers going away in F18. You might want to try yum list 'xorg*' on f17 and f18 and see if there are differences. Yeah, that was the same thing I was remembering when I went poking through the list of driver packages in F18/F19. Sorry for not explicitly mentioning it. But indeed, I believe what's happened here is simply that we dropped the native driver between F17 and F18. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.**org/mailman/listinfo/develhttps://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
On 04/04/13 03:10 PM, Aaron Gray wrote: AFAICT it does not seem to be a missing RPM level problem There is just an ATI driver 'xorg-x11-drv-ati.i686' which is available on F16, F17, and F18. It is being loaded on F18 on the HP DL140 G3 with ATI Rage XL video controller. So presumably it is either a problem with the probing being broken, or the Rage XL driver being removed or broken. The 'ati' driver is a bit odd; it's just a wrapper for the real drivers. Viz the manpage: DESCRIPTION ati is an Xorg wrapper driver for ATI video cards. It autodetects whether your hardware has a Radeon, Rage 128, or Mach64 or earlier class of chipset, and loads the radeon(4), r128(4), or mach64 driver as appropriate. Though, looking at that description, I do see that 'radeon', 'r128' and 'mach64' all appear to be present in the F19 repos. 'mach64' may not be installed by default, though - can you check if you have the 'xorg-x11-drv-mach64' package installed? If not, try installing it. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
Thanks Adam. I am just downloading the https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/19-Alpha-TC4/ alpha to try first before looking any deeper at the actual RPMS code. On 4 April 2013 23:29, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: On 04/04/13 03:10 PM, Aaron Gray wrote: AFAICT it does not seem to be a missing RPM level problem There is just an ATI driver 'xorg-x11-drv-ati.i686' which is available on F16, F17, and F18. It is being loaded on F18 on the HP DL140 G3 with ATI Rage XL video controller. So presumably it is either a problem with the probing being broken, or the Rage XL driver being removed or broken. The 'ati' driver is a bit odd; it's just a wrapper for the real drivers. Viz the manpage: DESCRIPTION ati is an Xorg wrapper driver for ATI video cards. It autodetects whether your hardware has a Radeon, Rage 128, or Mach64 or earlier class of chipset, and loads the radeon(4), r128(4), or mach64 driver as appropriate. Though, looking at that description, I do see that 'radeon', 'r128' and 'mach64' all appear to be present in the F19 repos. 'mach64' may not be installed by default, though - can you check if you have the 'xorg-x11-drv-mach64' package installed? If not, try installing it. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.**org/mailman/listinfo/develhttps://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
Great ! Now I find its too large to fit on a single sided DVD. Will try live desktop instead :- https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/19-Alpha-TC4/Live/i386/Fedora-19-Alpha-TC4-i686-Live-Desktop-19-1.iso On 4 April 2013 23:53, Aaron Gray aaronngray.li...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Adam. I am just downloading the https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/19-Alpha-TC4/ alpha to try first before looking any deeper at the actual RPMS code. On 4 April 2013 23:29, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: On 04/04/13 03:10 PM, Aaron Gray wrote: AFAICT it does not seem to be a missing RPM level problem There is just an ATI driver 'xorg-x11-drv-ati.i686' which is available on F16, F17, and F18. It is being loaded on F18 on the HP DL140 G3 with ATI Rage XL video controller. So presumably it is either a problem with the probing being broken, or the Rage XL driver being removed or broken. The 'ati' driver is a bit odd; it's just a wrapper for the real drivers. Viz the manpage: DESCRIPTION ati is an Xorg wrapper driver for ATI video cards. It autodetects whether your hardware has a Radeon, Rage 128, or Mach64 or earlier class of chipset, and loads the radeon(4), r128(4), or mach64 driver as appropriate. Though, looking at that description, I do see that 'radeon', 'r128' and 'mach64' all appear to be present in the F19 repos. 'mach64' may not be installed by default, though - can you check if you have the 'xorg-x11-drv-mach64' package installed? If not, try installing it. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.**org/mailman/listinfo/develhttps://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
On 04/04/13 06:06 PM, Aaron Gray wrote: Great ! Now I find its too large to fit on a single sided DVD. Will try live desktop instead :- https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/19-Alpha-TC4/Live/i386/Fedora-19-Alpha-TC4-i686-Live-Desktop-19-1.iso Sure, that'll be a fine test. No real need to install, graphics initialization logic is no different between live and installed systems. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
Well theres the aliased garbage at the top of the screen in normal graphics boot as with F18, but the Fedora cup filling icon is there and showing the 'F'. Now its gone back to showing the aliased garbage. And now the oversized graphics, with the top of the display wrapping bottom to the bottom still with the garbage at the top. Ooh, this is looking a bit better - move the mouse and the mouse cursor appears and the whole things shrunk to normal proportions, but still with the garbage at the top and the top wrapped round to the bottom and lateral shift and wrap 2/5ths of the screen from left to right. So it looks like its either got the wrong driver or there is a memory paging problem with the driver. Will follow up further investigations into 'xorg-x11-drv-ati.i686' ATI driver as suggested tomorrow. Thanks to everyone for all the help so far, Aaron On 5 April 2013 02:17, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: On 04/04/13 06:06 PM, Aaron Gray wrote: Great ! Now I find its too large to fit on a single sided DVD. Will try live desktop instead :- https://dl.fedoraproject.org/**pub/alt/stage/19-Alpha-TC4/** Live/i386/Fedora-19-Alpha-TC4-**i686-Live-Desktop-19-1.isohttps://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/19-Alpha-TC4/Live/i386/Fedora-19-Alpha-TC4-i686-Live-Desktop-19-1.iso Sure, that'll be a fine test. No real need to install, graphics initialization logic is no different between live and installed systems. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.**org/mailman/listinfo/develhttps://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
On 04/04/13 06:41 PM, Aaron Gray wrote: Well theres the aliased garbage at the top of the screen in normal graphics boot as with F18, but the Fedora cup filling icon is there and showing the 'F'. Now its gone back to showing the aliased garbage. And now the oversized graphics, with the top of the display wrapping bottom to the bottom still with the garbage at the top. Ooh, this is looking a bit better - move the mouse and the mouse cursor appears and the whole things shrunk to normal proportions, but still with the garbage at the top and the top wrapped round to the bottom and lateral shift and wrap 2/5ths of the screen from left to right. So it looks like its either got the wrong driver or there is a memory paging problem with the driver. ...or it's set the display to a mode it isn't really capable of. We would probably benefit from a look at Xorg.0.log. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
Its quite strange. The Samsung monitor is 1920 x 1200 Rage XL is 1600 x 1200 Xorg.0.log does not really say much of any help AFAICR. I'll post a copy later when back at the machine. On 5 April 2013 02:55, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: On 04/04/13 06:41 PM, Aaron Gray wrote: Well theres the aliased garbage at the top of the screen in normal graphics boot as with F18, but the Fedora cup filling icon is there and showing the 'F'. Now its gone back to showing the aliased garbage. And now the oversized graphics, with the top of the display wrapping bottom to the bottom still with the garbage at the top. Ooh, this is looking a bit better - move the mouse and the mouse cursor appears and the whole things shrunk to normal proportions, but still with the garbage at the top and the top wrapped round to the bottom and lateral shift and wrap 2/5ths of the screen from left to right. So it looks like its either got the wrong driver or there is a memory paging problem with the driver. ...or it's set the display to a mode it isn't really capable of. We would probably benefit from a look at Xorg.0.log. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.**org/mailman/listinfo/develhttps://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
[F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
I am getting 1/4 of a screens worth of the Anaconda and runtime display on F18. It worked alright on F14 and F16. It seems to be to do with the HP DL 140 G3's ATI Rage XL video controller. The main install option gives garbage graphics and the basic graphics install option give 1/4 or less of the display on the screen. I have tried with multiple monitors but get the same results. Has X.org depreciated the ATI Rage XL video driver ? Are there any options on startup and on GRUB that may help me ? There seems to be a similar problem on Ubuntu, here's a solution :- http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1086996 Many thanks in advance, Aaron -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
On 03/04/13 11:16 AM, Aaron Gray wrote: I am getting 1/4 of a screens worth of the Anaconda and runtime display on F18. It worked alright on F14 and F16. It seems to be to do with the HP DL 140 G3's ATI Rage XL video controller. The main install option gives garbage graphics and the basic graphics install option give 1/4 or less of the display on the screen. I have tried with multiple monitors but get the same results. Has X.org depreciated the ATI Rage XL video driver ? Are there any options on startup and on GRUB that may help me ? Try 'Basic Graphics Mode' (which will give you the VESA driver). And please do realize your graphics adapter is well over a decade old. ATI stopped posting official Windows drivers for it in 2002: http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/legacy-xp.aspx . There are limits to how long the F/OSS stack devs are able to work on extremely old hardware, they don't have infinite resources... -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
On 2013-04-03 11:48 (GMT-0700) Adam Williamson composed: There are limits to how long the F/OSS stack devs are able to work on extremely old hardware, they don't have infinite resources... IOW, if you want to keep using old hardware, you need to participate in keeping it supported. That means participation in testing upcoming release versions so as to discover and report problems soon enough that fixes might be provided when breakage is discovered. AFAIR, some Rage hardware still works without needing to fall back to a generic driver. I know the r128 driver is working for me, though not automatically. Maybe the Rage XP also needs manual help? -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
On 03/04/13 12:29 PM, Felix Miata wrote: On 2013-04-03 11:48 (GMT-0700) Adam Williamson composed: There are limits to how long the F/OSS stack devs are able to work on extremely old hardware, they don't have infinite resources... IOW, if you want to keep using old hardware, you need to participate in keeping it supported. That means participation in testing upcoming release versions so as to discover and report problems soon enough that fixes might be provided when breakage is discovered. That always helps, but let's not kid ourselves that even all comprehensively documented graphics bugs are fixed. There just aren't the developers to fix them all, and 'likely prevalence of hardware in the real world' is one of the factors the devs use in prioritising bugs for fixing, which means bugs for extremely ancient hardware tend to go down the queue a bit. It's not that they never get fixed, but... -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
On Wed, Apr 03, 2013 at 13:54:00 -0700, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: That always helps, but let's not kid ourselves that even all comprehensively documented graphics bugs are fixed. There just aren't the developers to fix them all, and 'likely prevalence of hardware in the real world' is one of the factors the devs use in prioritising bugs for fixing, which means bugs for extremely ancient hardware tend to go down the queue a bit. It's not that they never get fixed, but... Even though I own mostly old hardware, I do agree with needing to prioritize on the hardware that is most in use. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
On 2013-04-03 13:54 (GMT-0700) Adam Williamson composed: Felix Miata wrote: On 2013-04-03 11:48 (GMT-0700) Adam Williamson composed: There are limits to how long the F/OSS stack devs are able to work on extremely old hardware, they don't have infinite resources... IOW, if you want to keep using old hardware, you need to participate in keeping it supported. That means participation in testing upcoming release versions so as to discover and report problems soon enough that fixes might be provided when breakage is discovered. That always helps, but let's not kid ourselves that even all comprehensively documented graphics bugs are fixed. There just aren't the developers to fix them all, and 'likely prevalence of hardware in the real world' is one of the factors the devs use in prioritising bugs for fixing, which means bugs for extremely ancient hardware tend to go down the queue a bit. It's not that they never get fixed, but... What I wrote wasn't meant to imply anything like a guarantee support would continue indefinitely for ancient hardware. Developers lacking the subject hardware obviously can't test on it. To do anything about a bug with scarce hardware requires devs know about the problem at an appropriate time, and get as much detail as possible about it from those who do have that hardware, if not in a formally filed bug, at least in similar form where devs who care might see it. Such a time is least likely to be useful for already released software that the devs have passed by one or two releases already, e.g. F18. The best time is the time that requires the least amount of bisection to discover when the problem was created. The older the hardware you with to use, the more valuable your participation in testing. That includes upstream where necessary, such as Xorg drivers in particular. -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
I am a C/C++ coder and would love to be brought up to speed with what is required to be able fix bugs and problems in new releases for the hardware I posse. It seems things do get broken or left behind all too often. The nice IBM PowerPC based RAID cards in my older Fujitsu-Siemens 970's worked to FC9 then stopped and started working again in F14. Something to do with kudzu and hardware probing, but I never found out why in the end which was frustrating. On 3 April 2013 22:10, Bruno Wolff III br...@wolff.to wrote: On Wed, Apr 03, 2013 at 13:54:00 -0700, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: That always helps, but let's not kid ourselves that even all comprehensively documented graphics bugs are fixed. There just aren't the developers to fix them all, and 'likely prevalence of hardware in the real world' is one of the factors the devs use in prioritising bugs for fixing, which means bugs for extremely ancient hardware tend to go down the queue a bit. It's not that they never get fixed, but... Even though I own mostly old hardware, I do agree with needing to prioritize on the hardware that is most in use. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.**org/mailman/listinfo/develhttps://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
Can anyone offer me advice where to look and what to look out for with this ATI Rage XL problem, it was not in F16. I will try rolling a F19 ISO if I can get that together and try that just in case the problem has fixed itself. I will also follow up the Ubuntu lead. Thanks for the replies, any help or information is much appreciated. Did there used to be a Fedora triage group for dealing with such problems ? Or did that leave them not being viewed off of main mailing lists ? On 3 April 2013 22:21, Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net wrote: On 2013-04-03 13:54 (GMT-0700) Adam Williamson composed: Felix Miata wrote: On 2013-04-03 11:48 (GMT-0700) Adam Williamson composed: There are limits to how long the F/OSS stack devs are able to work on extremely old hardware, they don't have infinite resources... IOW, if you want to keep using old hardware, you need to participate in keeping it supported. That means participation in testing upcoming release versions so as to discover and report problems soon enough that fixes might be provided when breakage is discovered. That always helps, but let's not kid ourselves that even all comprehensively documented graphics bugs are fixed. There just aren't the developers to fix them all, and 'likely prevalence of hardware in the real world' is one of the factors the devs use in prioritising bugs for fixing, which means bugs for extremely ancient hardware tend to go down the queue a bit. It's not that they never get fixed, but... What I wrote wasn't meant to imply anything like a guarantee support would continue indefinitely for ancient hardware. Developers lacking the subject hardware obviously can't test on it. To do anything about a bug with scarce hardware requires devs know about the problem at an appropriate time, and get as much detail as possible about it from those who do have that hardware, if not in a formally filed bug, at least in similar form where devs who care might see it. Such a time is least likely to be useful for already released software that the devs have passed by one or two releases already, e.g. F18. The best time is the time that requires the least amount of bisection to discover when the problem was created. The older the hardware you with to use, the more valuable your participation in testing. That includes upstream where necessary, such as Xorg drivers in particular. -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.**org/mailman/listinfo/develhttps://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
On Wed, Apr 03, 2013 at 22:22:12 +0100, Aaron Gray aaronngray.li...@gmail.com wrote: I am a C/C++ coder and would love to be brought up to speed with what is required to be able fix bugs and problems in new releases for the hardware I posse. It seems things do get broken or left behind all too often. The nice IBM PowerPC based RAID cards in my older Fujitsu-Siemens 970's worked to FC9 then stopped and started working again in F14. Something to do with kudzu and hardware probing, but I never found out why in the end which was frustrating. As noted in other replies timely testing. It is a lot easier to be successful getting something fixed if breakage is reported very shortly after the change that broke it. Finding the change that broke it yourself (say using git bisect) is also helpful as it points developers at exactly where the problem is in most cases. (Saving them time that can be used to consider how to fix the problem.) Being able to supply patches for fixes is even more valuable. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
how do I go about getting in a position to do a git bisect. I know C/C++ and I know git, and I know hardware. Its the Fedora side of things that I am very unsure of. Some help and advice and pointers to what to look at and learn would be much appreciated. There seem to be three areas that need attacking/looking at :- a) The Anaconda main graphic interface gives a random coloured effect, not even a wrong x axis length style random screen. b) The 'Basic Graphics Mode' screen is the top left hand corner of the full display image. c) The graphics once you get it working is using a much lower resolution 640 by 480 where the ATI Rage XL supports 1600 by 1200. And it calls itself a 'Laptop' in the 'System Settings'. It looks like there must just be missing a configuration in X that by the looks of it was also missing in Ubuntu 8.10. As I say I don't really know where to start. I have tried making configuration modifications to X before but with very little joy. On 3 April 2013 22:31, Bruno Wolff III br...@wolff.to wrote: On Wed, Apr 03, 2013 at 22:22:12 +0100, Aaron Gray aaronngray.li...@gmail.com wrote: I am a C/C++ coder and would love to be brought up to speed with what is required to be able fix bugs and problems in new releases for the hardware I posse. It seems things do get broken or left behind all too often. The nice IBM PowerPC based RAID cards in my older Fujitsu-Siemens 970's worked to FC9 then stopped and started working again in F14. Something to do with kudzu and hardware probing, but I never found out why in the end which was frustrating. As noted in other replies timely testing. It is a lot easier to be successful getting something fixed if breakage is reported very shortly after the change that broke it. Finding the change that broke it yourself (say using git bisect) is also helpful as it points developers at exactly where the problem is in most cases. (Saving them time that can be used to consider how to fix the problem.) Being able to supply patches for fixes is even more valuable. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
Adam Williamson wrote: And please do realize your graphics adapter is well over a decade old. ATI stopped posting official Windows drivers for it in 2002: http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/legacy-xp.aspx . Quoting from Wikipedia: It was also seen on Intel motherboards, as recently as 2004, and was still used in 2006 for server motherboards. Well, yeah, old. But not ancient ;) Felix -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
On 03/04/13 02:28 PM, Aaron Gray wrote: Can anyone offer me advice where to look and what to look out for with this ATI Rage XL problem, it was not in F16. The bare minimum info for submitting a useful X bug report is: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_debug_Xorg_problems Now I look at the F19 package set, the oldest ATI driver I see that's still actually packaged is r128. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATI_Rage is somewhat confusing, and my first-hand memory just doesn't stretch that far back any more, but it at least implies that the Rage XL predates the Rage 128, and the r128 man page does not mention the XL. It's possible there's simply no supported (and hence shipped in Fedora) native driver for your card any more. I'd still expect some kind of fallback driver to work to some extent, though. At minimum, take a look at the X and kernel logs and see if you can at least figure out what drivers are actually in use. I will try rolling a F19 ISO if I can get that together and try that just in case the problem has fixed itself. We already have nightlies at https://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/nightly-composes/ and Alpha TC images available (see announcement mails in the archives), so you shouldn't need to roll your own! I will also follow up the Ubuntu lead. Thanks for the replies, any help or information is much appreciated. Did there used to be a Fedora triage group for dealing with such problems ? Well, there was a triage group, yes, the Bugzappers; it's currently dormant. It wasn't exactly for 'dealing with such problems', though, it was about trying to ensure bug reports were sufficiently complete and generally organizing them (trying to set severity, catching duplicates and invalid reports, and so on). X.org triage is something that we could do with more of for sure; Matej Cepl and myself used to somewhat keep up with it, but neither of us has the time lately. If there was some kind of group specifically for dealing with bugs on very old hardware, I'm not aware of it. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
On 03/04/13 02:50 PM, Felix Kaechele wrote: Adam Williamson wrote: And please do realize your graphics adapter is well over a decade old. ATI stopped posting official Windows drivers for it in 2002: http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/legacy-xp.aspx . Quoting from Wikipedia: It was also seen on Intel motherboards, as recently as 2004, and was still used in 2006 for server motherboards. Well, yeah, old. But not ancient ;) I read that too, but 'seen as recently as 2006' still counts as ancient in my book. Especially 'for server motherboards', where kind of the whole point is no-one gives a crap about whether the graphics work, since they likely won't be plugged in 99.99% of the time... -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
On 2013-04-03 22:28 (GMT+0100) Aaron Gray composed: Can anyone offer me advice where to look and what to look out for with this ATI Rage XL problem, it was not in F16. After reading the Rage Wikipedia link Adam posted, I doubt there will be a native driver solution. Still, if you have an Xorg.0.log available from using F16 it may be useful to compare it to that from trying to use F18 or F19. Note that if this were on a laptop, the root problem could easily be the same as on my Dell Inspiron 5000e's Rage 128, which is bad EDID thwarting automagic. That I work around by using a simple xorg.conf. -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
On 03/04/13 03:36 PM, Felix Miata wrote: On 2013-04-03 22:28 (GMT+0100) Aaron Gray composed: Can anyone offer me advice where to look and what to look out for with this ATI Rage XL problem, it was not in F16. After reading the Rage Wikipedia link Adam posted, I doubt there will be a native driver solution. Still, if you have an Xorg.0.log available from using F16 it may be useful to compare it to that from trying to use F18 or F19. Note that if this were on a laptop, the root problem could easily be the same as on my Dell Inspiron 5000e's Rage 128, which is bad EDID thwarting automagic. That I work around by using a simple xorg.conf. With hardware that old it still could be even with a desktop, who knows what the monitor is. The Ubuntu thread he linked to was certainly about that. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: [F18][ATI Rage XL] Problems with install on ATI Rage XP video driver
On 2013-04-03 15:46 (GMT-0700) Adam Williamson composed: Felix Miata wrote: Note that if this were on a laptop, the root problem could easily be the same as on my Dell Inspiron 5000e's Rage 128, which is bad EDID thwarting automagic. That I work around by using a simple xorg.conf. With hardware that old it still could be even with a desktop, who knows what the monitor is. The Ubuntu thread he linked to was certainly about that. I guess I really didn't complete my thought. An old desktop usually has a readily accessible slot containing a gfxcard easily replaced with something newer and/or better supported. Changing video on a laptop is anything but easy, though at least EDID issues can typically be isolated by plugging in an external display. EDID that fails with one chip won't necessarily fail with another that uses a different driver. OTOH, bad EDID is hardly unique to old displays. -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
