Re: Deprecating SCP
On 11/2/20 10:29 PM, David Howells wrote: Jakub Jelen wrote: Today, I set up a copr repository with the current openssh from Fedora + the patch [2] for anyone to test and provide feedback, either here on the mailing list, or in the github PR according to ones preferences. Does it work with connection sharing (ControlPath, ControlMaster, ControlPersist config options)? It should keep working the same way as it worked before with scp. Regards, -- Jakub Jelen Senior Software Engineer Crypto Team, Security Engineering Red Hat, Inc. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Deprecating SCP
On 11/2/20 4:05 PM, Marius Schwarz wrote: Am 02.11.20 um 15:44 schrieb Jakub Jelen: Hi Fedora users! Over the last years, there were several issues in the SCP protocol, which lead us into discussions if we can get rid of it in upstream [1]. Most of the voices there said that they use SCP mostly for simple ad-hoc copy and because sftp utility does not provide simple interface to copy one or couple of files back and forth and because of people are just used to write scp rather than sftp. Some months ago, I wrote a patch [2] for scp to use SFTP internally (with possibility to change it back using -M scp) and ran it through some successful testing. The general feedback from upstream was also quite positive so I would like to hear also opinions from our users. if it is compatible with what powerusers i.e. sysadmins do with it, it should be fine. I have such things as Compression, Cipher, Ports and 2 sets of login credentials in mind, to directly copy from a to b without parking it first on the pc running the scp. Compression, Ciphers and Ports are configuration options for ssh protocol, which stays unchanged. Copying remote to remote (without the -3 option) should work after updating scp also on the remote source machine. On the server side it has to honor things like CHROOT directives. This is also a property/configuration of ssh server. Using chroot with sftp is much easier than with scp as you really do not need any binaries in chroot and you can use internal-sftp server. Regards, -- Jakub Jelen Senior Software Engineer Crypto Team, Security Engineering Red Hat, Inc. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Deprecating SCP
Jakub Jelen wrote: > Today, I set up a copr repository with the current openssh from Fedora + the > patch [2] for anyone to test and provide feedback, either here on the mailing > list, or in the github PR according to ones preferences. Does it work with connection sharing (ControlPath, ControlMaster, ControlPersist config options)? David ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Deprecating SCP
On Monday, November 2, 2020 6:31:33 PM CET Florian Weimer wrote: > * Kamil Dudka: > > On Monday, November 2, 2020 5:57:29 PM CET Florian Weimer wrote: > >> * Kamil Dudka: > >> > As far as I know, (lib)curl has never silently transformed a protocol > >> > scheme explicitly specified with URL. This can be discussed upstream > >> > but I do not feel like starting the discussion myself. > >> > >> Curl does it for https://, so it should be fine for scp://. > > > > Could you please be more specific? What exactly does curl do for https:// > > ? > It automatically replaces the underlying HTTP transport with HTTP/2 if > the server replaces it. These protocols are about as similar as SCP and > SFTP, I would say. Thank you for clarifying it! The key difference is that the HTTP protocol upgrade to HTTP/2 (or HTTP/3 via Alt-Svc header) are covered by IETF specifications. There is also no protocol scheme to specify HTTP/2 explicitly in URL, unlike SCP vs. SFTP. Kamil > Thanks, > Florian ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Deprecating SCP
* Kamil Dudka: > On Monday, November 2, 2020 5:57:29 PM CET Florian Weimer wrote: >> * Kamil Dudka: >> >> >> > As far as I know, (lib)curl has never silently transformed a protocol >> > scheme explicitly specified with URL. This can be discussed upstream >> > but I do not feel like starting the discussion myself. >> >> >> Curl does it for https://, so it should be fine for scp://. > > Could you please be more specific? What exactly does curl do for https:// ? It automatically replaces the underlying HTTP transport with HTTP/2 if the server replaces it. These protocols are about as similar as SCP and SFTP, I would say. Thanks, Florian -- Red Hat GmbH, https://de.redhat.com/ , Registered seat: Grasbrunn, Commercial register: Amtsgericht Muenchen, HRB 153243, Managing Directors: Charles Cachera, Brian Klemm, Laurie Krebs, Michael O'Neill ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Deprecating SCP
On Monday, November 2, 2020 5:57:29 PM CET Florian Weimer wrote: > * Kamil Dudka: > > > > As far as I know, (lib)curl has never silently transformed a protocol > > scheme explicitly specified with URL. This can be discussed upstream > > but I do not feel like starting the discussion myself. > > > Curl does it for https://, so it should be fine for scp://. Could you please be more specific? What exactly does curl do for https:// ? Kamil > Thanks, > Florian > -- > Red Hat GmbH, https://de.redhat.com/ , Registered seat: Grasbrunn, > Commercial register: Amtsgericht Muenchen, HRB 153243, > Managing Directors: Charles Cachera, Brian Klemm, Laurie Krebs, Michael > O'Neill ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Deprecating SCP
* Kamil Dudka: > As far as I know, (lib)curl has never silently transformed a protocol scheme > explicitly specified with URL. This can be discussed upstream but I do not > feel like starting the discussion myself. Curl does it for https://, so it should be fine for scp://. Thanks, Florian -- Red Hat GmbH, https://de.redhat.com/ , Registered seat: Grasbrunn, Commercial register: Amtsgericht Muenchen, HRB 153243, Managing Directors: Charles Cachera, Brian Klemm, Laurie Krebs, Michael O'Neill ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Deprecating SCP
On Monday, November 2, 2020 4:47:47 PM CET Simo Sorce wrote: > On Mon, 2020-11-02 at 16:36 +0100, Kamil Dudka wrote: > > How is the "compatibility scpd to support old clients" going to differ > > from the current implementation? > > > > libcurl implements its own SCP client over libssh. Will this > > implementation > > continue to work after OpenSSH gets updated on servers? > > > > Applications often allow users to pass arbitrary URLs to libcurl. So one > > can, > > for example, use scp:// URLs to specify a kickstart for Anaconda. > > The fact that scp utility will be reimplemented over SFTP does not help > > much in this case. Each build of libcurl that supports scp:// supports > > sftp:// as well. But libcurl will not transmit scp:// requests over > > sftp:// in case SCP is not supported by the remote server any more. > > > Sounds like a RFE for libcurl to slowly move scp:// to be using the > sftp protocol instead ? As far as I know, (lib)curl has never silently transformed a protocol scheme explicitly specified with URL. This can be discussed upstream but I do not feel like starting the discussion myself. > Or they could simply deprecate it, and then users will have to change > their config to say sftp:// > > For something like libcurl the latter is probably more appropriate > anyway. Yes, I believe this is the curl way to handle it. Nothing is being changed for curl now as I understand it. So there is no need to take an immediate action. Anyway, I will notify curl upstream about the plan so they are not surprised later on. Kamil > Simo. > > -- > Simo Sorce > RHEL Crypto Team > Red Hat, Inc ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Deprecating SCP
On Mon, Nov 02, 2020 at 03:44:39PM +0100, Jakub Jelen wrote: > Over the last years, there were several issues in the SCP protocol, which > lead us into discussions if we can get rid of it in upstream [1]. Most of > the voices there said that they use SCP mostly for simple ad-hoc copy and > because sftp utility does not provide simple interface to copy one or couple > of files back and forth and because of people are just used to write scp > rather than sftp. > > Some months ago, I wrote a patch [2] for scp to use SFTP internally (with > possibility to change it back using -M scp) and ran it through some > successful testing. The general feedback from upstream was also quite > positive so I would like to hear also opinions from our users. Has that testing included performance measurements, both on high bandwidth low-latency transfers and low bandwidth high-latency transfers? At least in the past SFTP used to be worse than SCP on high-latency connections. Jakub ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Deprecating SCP
Le lundi 02 novembre 2020 à 16:16 +0100, Marius Schwarz a écrit : > Am 02.11.20 um 16:13 schrieb Solomon Peachy: > > On Mon, Nov 02, 2020 at 03:44:39PM +0100, Jakub Jelen wrote: > > > I am looking for any kind of feedback from the idea through the > > > usability, > > > implementation. Is this something you would like to see in Fedora > > > soon? Do > > > you have something against this? Is your use case missing? > > I like it! scp-the-tool (including command/filename completion!) > > is > > just so much nicer to work with than sftp-the-tool. > Well, thats a nice feature requirement, almost forgot about it. Well lftp-the-tool is even better. And they all do the same thing from a functional POW, only the underlying protocol changes. This is sad, the user wouldn’t care less about protocol differences (as he would not care less about TLS negociation, as long as the resulting recipe is steong) User attachment to different tools is a legacy of other OSes where one protocol is built in and the others not. Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Deprecating SCP
On 11/2/20 4:36 PM, Kamil Dudka wrote: On Monday, November 2, 2020 3:44:39 PM CET Jakub Jelen wrote: Hi Fedora users! Over the last years, there were several issues in the SCP protocol, which lead us into discussions if we can get rid of it in upstream [1]. Most of the voices there said that they use SCP mostly for simple ad-hoc copy and because sftp utility does not provide simple interface to copy one or couple of files back and forth and because of people are just used to write scp rather than sftp. Some months ago, I wrote a patch [2] for scp to use SFTP internally (with possibility to change it back using -M scp) and ran it through some successful testing. The general feedback from upstream was also quite positive so I would like to hear also opinions from our users. It still has some limitations (missing -3 support, it will not work if the server does not run sftp subsystem, ...), but it should be good enough for most common use cases. Today, I set up a copr repository with the current openssh from Fedora + the patch [2] for anyone to test and provide feedback, either here on the mailing list, or in the github PR according to ones preferences. I am looking for any kind of feedback from the idea through the usability, implementation. Is this something you would like to see in Fedora soon? Do you have something against this? Is your use case missing? [1] https://lists.mindrot.org/pipermail/openssh-unix-dev/2020-June/038594.html [2] https://github.com/openssh/openssh-portable/pull/194/ [3] https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/jjelen/openssh-sftp/ How is the "compatibility scpd to support old clients" going to differ from the current implementation? I can think of a solution that in the end, there will be just the server parts of the current scp and the client code branches will be gone or support sftp only. But this can change as we are not there yet. libcurl implements its own SCP client over libssh. Will this implementation continue to work after OpenSSH gets updated on servers? With the above update, everything will work as before -- it affects only the client scp binary. Applications often allow users to pass arbitrary URLs to libcurl. So one can, for example, use scp:// URLs to specify a kickstart for Anaconda. The fact that scp utility will be reimplemented over SFTP does not help much in this case. Each build of libcurl that supports scp:// supports sftp:// as well. But libcurl will not transmit scp:// requests over sftp:// in case SCP is not supported by the remote server any more. As Simo wrote, I think it is something that will have to happen sooner or later inside of libcurl or libssh or in users configurations. But again, the above change should not have any effect on this. Regards, -- Jakub Jelen Senior Software Engineer Crypto Team, Security Engineering Red Hat, Inc. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Deprecating SCP
On Mon, 2020-11-02 at 16:36 +0100, Kamil Dudka wrote: > On Monday, November 2, 2020 3:44:39 PM CET Jakub Jelen wrote: > > Hi Fedora users! > > > > Over the last years, there were several issues in the SCP protocol, > > which lead us into discussions if we can get rid of it in upstream [1]. > > Most of the voices there said that they use SCP mostly for simple ad-hoc > > copy and because sftp utility does not provide simple interface to copy > > one or couple of files back and forth and because of people are just > > used to write scp rather than sftp. > > > > Some months ago, I wrote a patch [2] for scp to use SFTP internally > > (with possibility to change it back using -M scp) and ran it through > > some successful testing. The general feedback from upstream was also > > quite positive so I would like to hear also opinions from our users. > > > > It still has some limitations (missing -3 support, it will not work if > > the server does not run sftp subsystem, ...), but it should be good > > enough for most common use cases. > > > > Today, I set up a copr repository with the current openssh from Fedora + > > the patch [2] for anyone to test and provide feedback, either here on > > the mailing list, or in the github PR according to ones preferences. > > > > I am looking for any kind of feedback from the idea through the > > usability, implementation. Is this something you would like to see in > > Fedora soon? Do you have something against this? Is your use case missing? > > > > [1] > > https://lists.mindrot.org/pipermail/openssh-unix-dev/2020-June/038594.html > > [2] https://github.com/openssh/openssh-portable/pull/194/ > > [3] https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/jjelen/openssh-sftp/ > > How is the "compatibility scpd to support old clients" going to differ > from the current implementation? > > libcurl implements its own SCP client over libssh. Will this implementation > continue to work after OpenSSH gets updated on servers? > > Applications often allow users to pass arbitrary URLs to libcurl. So one > can, > for example, use scp:// URLs to specify a kickstart for Anaconda. The fact > that scp utility will be reimplemented over SFTP does not help much in this > case. Each build of libcurl that supports scp:// supports sftp:// as well. > But libcurl will not transmit scp:// requests over sftp:// in case SCP is not > supported by the remote server any more. Sounds like a RFE for libcurl to slowly move scp:// to be using the sftp protocol instead ? Or they could simply deprecate it, and then users will have to change their config to say sftp:// For something like libcurl the latter is probably more appropriate anyway. Simo. -- Simo Sorce RHEL Crypto Team Red Hat, Inc ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: [Fedora] Deprecating SCP
On 11/2/20 3:57 PM, Walter Cazzola wrote: Hi, I don't know if and how the internet protocol scp: is related to the scp command. But I suppose it is. Hi, SCP is not an internet protocol -- it is simple protocol that is used inside of encrypted SSH session, similarly to SFTP protocol. The name comes from RCP which actually was unencrypted internet protocol and which is hopefully gone. I'm using scp: a lot to edit remote files with vim and I'm pretty sure that many remote admins are doing the same. So I'm wondering how this change will affect my use case scenario and if you have considered it when moving to sftp. That is a good question! When I try to use scp://host/file I am getting errors that vim is trying to use `rcp` command (yuck!). But using the same with sftp://host/file works like a charm. I believe vim is using just scp to fetch the file so if the connection to the server will work also with sftp, it should continue to work (but I recommend using sftp protocol anyway). The simplest way to try is to try with sftp:// or try the previously mentioned package, but my best bet is that it will keep on working as before (even though I never used this inside of vim up until today). Regards, Jakub Thank you Walter On Mon, 2 Nov 2020, Jakub Jelen wrote: Hi Fedora users! Over the last years, there were several issues in the SCP protocol, which lead us into discussions if we can get rid of it in upstream [1]. Most of the voices there said that they use SCP mostly for simple ad-hoc copy and because sftp utility does not provide simple interface to copy one or couple of files back and forth and because of people are just used to write scp rather than sftp. Some months ago, I wrote a patch [2] for scp to use SFTP internally (with possibility to change it back using -M scp) and ran it through some successful testing. The general feedback from upstream was also quite positive so I would like to hear also opinions from our users. It still has some limitations (missing -3 support, it will not work if the server does not run sftp subsystem, ...), but it should be good enough for most common use cases. Today, I set up a copr repository with the current openssh from Fedora + the patch [2] for anyone to test and provide feedback, either here on the mailing list, or in the github PR according to ones preferences. I am looking for any kind of feedback from the idea through the usability, implementation. Is this something you would like to see in Fedora soon? Do you have something against this? Is your use case missing? [1] https://lists.mindrot.org/pipermail/openssh-unix-dev/2020-June/038594.html [2] https://github.com/openssh/openssh-portable/pull/194/ [3] https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/jjelen/openssh-sftp/ Thanks, -- Jakub Jelen Senior Software Engineer Crypto Team, Security Engineering Red Hat, Inc. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Deprecating SCP
On Monday, November 2, 2020 3:44:39 PM CET Jakub Jelen wrote: > Hi Fedora users! > > Over the last years, there were several issues in the SCP protocol, > which lead us into discussions if we can get rid of it in upstream [1]. > Most of the voices there said that they use SCP mostly for simple ad-hoc > copy and because sftp utility does not provide simple interface to copy > one or couple of files back and forth and because of people are just > used to write scp rather than sftp. > > Some months ago, I wrote a patch [2] for scp to use SFTP internally > (with possibility to change it back using -M scp) and ran it through > some successful testing. The general feedback from upstream was also > quite positive so I would like to hear also opinions from our users. > > It still has some limitations (missing -3 support, it will not work if > the server does not run sftp subsystem, ...), but it should be good > enough for most common use cases. > > Today, I set up a copr repository with the current openssh from Fedora + > the patch [2] for anyone to test and provide feedback, either here on > the mailing list, or in the github PR according to ones preferences. > > I am looking for any kind of feedback from the idea through the > usability, implementation. Is this something you would like to see in > Fedora soon? Do you have something against this? Is your use case missing? > > [1] > https://lists.mindrot.org/pipermail/openssh-unix-dev/2020-June/038594.html > [2] https://github.com/openssh/openssh-portable/pull/194/ > [3] https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/jjelen/openssh-sftp/ How is the "compatibility scpd to support old clients" going to differ from the current implementation? libcurl implements its own SCP client over libssh. Will this implementation continue to work after OpenSSH gets updated on servers? Applications often allow users to pass arbitrary URLs to libcurl. So one can, for example, use scp:// URLs to specify a kickstart for Anaconda. The fact that scp utility will be reimplemented over SFTP does not help much in this case. Each build of libcurl that supports scp:// supports sftp:// as well. But libcurl will not transmit scp:// requests over sftp:// in case SCP is not supported by the remote server any more. Kamil ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Deprecating SCP
Am 02.11.20 um 16:13 schrieb Solomon Peachy: On Mon, Nov 02, 2020 at 03:44:39PM +0100, Jakub Jelen wrote: I am looking for any kind of feedback from the idea through the usability, implementation. Is this something you would like to see in Fedora soon? Do you have something against this? Is your use case missing? I like it! scp-the-tool (including command/filename completion!) is just so much nicer to work with than sftp-the-tool. Well, thats a nice feature requirement, almost forgot about it. But sftp is also slightly slower than scp, at least on large sustained transfers. Hope not, slow data transfer is already an issue with Gb/s :). Best regards, Marius ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Deprecating SCP
On Mon, Nov 02, 2020 at 03:44:39PM +0100, Jakub Jelen wrote: > I am looking for any kind of feedback from the idea through the usability, > implementation. Is this something you would like to see in Fedora soon? Do > you have something against this? Is your use case missing? I like it! scp-the-tool (including command/filename completion!) is just so much nicer to work with than sftp-the-tool. But sftp is also slightly slower than scp, at least on large sustained transfers. My non-scientific test transfered a 13GB file at 111.1MB/s vs 112.0MB/s between two (very fast) endpoints connected via GigE. (I need to see how well it handles smaller transfers, this is where SCP gets pretty crappy..) - Solomon -- Solomon Peachypizza at shaftnet dot org (email) @pizza:shaftnet dot org (matrix) High Springs, FL speachy (freenode) signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Deprecating SCP
Am 02.11.20 um 15:44 schrieb Jakub Jelen: Hi Fedora users! Over the last years, there were several issues in the SCP protocol, which lead us into discussions if we can get rid of it in upstream [1]. Most of the voices there said that they use SCP mostly for simple ad-hoc copy and because sftp utility does not provide simple interface to copy one or couple of files back and forth and because of people are just used to write scp rather than sftp. Some months ago, I wrote a patch [2] for scp to use SFTP internally (with possibility to change it back using -M scp) and ran it through some successful testing. The general feedback from upstream was also quite positive so I would like to hear also opinions from our users. if it is compatible with what powerusers i.e. sysadmins do with it, it should be fine. I have such things as Compression, Cipher, Ports and 2 sets of login credentials in mind, to directly copy from a to b without parking it first on the pc running the scp. On the server side it has to honor things like CHROOT directives. best regards, Marius ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Deprecating SCP
On Monday, November 2, 2020 2:44:39 PM WET Jakub Jelen wrote: > I am looking for any kind of feedback from the idea through the > usability, implementation. Is this something you would like to see in > Fedora soon? Do you have something against this? Is your use case missing? Hi Jakub, if I am not sure if I understood what you said, you intend to deprecate the scp protocol/inner working but not the scp binary. Is that correct? I like the ease of the use of the scp, even if sometimes I would prefer it to have the same options as the usual cp. :-) Best regards, -- José Abílio___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Deprecating SCP
On Mon, 2 Nov 2020, Jakub Jelen wrote: Some months ago, I wrote a patch [2] for scp to use SFTP internally (with possibility to change it back using -M scp) and ran it through some successful testing. The general feedback from upstream was also quite positive so I would like to hear also opinions from our users. I am looking for any kind of feedback from the idea through the usability, implementation. Is this something you would like to see in Fedora soon? Do you have something against this? Is your use case missing? This is excellent! Indeed, most users don't care about the underlying SSH protocol flavour other than expecting it to be secure. They just want "scp" to work. Your solution does both. It is a very good example of listening to what users want and supported users without requiring them to learn a new command like sftp. I wish more developers had this focus! I will try it out over the next few days. My personal usecases would be that it still keeps working with rsync's method of invoking scp and that we would have sftp enable by default for sshd by default. Thanks! Paul ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Deprecating SCP
Hi Fedora users! Over the last years, there were several issues in the SCP protocol, which lead us into discussions if we can get rid of it in upstream [1]. Most of the voices there said that they use SCP mostly for simple ad-hoc copy and because sftp utility does not provide simple interface to copy one or couple of files back and forth and because of people are just used to write scp rather than sftp. Some months ago, I wrote a patch [2] for scp to use SFTP internally (with possibility to change it back using -M scp) and ran it through some successful testing. The general feedback from upstream was also quite positive so I would like to hear also opinions from our users. It still has some limitations (missing -3 support, it will not work if the server does not run sftp subsystem, ...), but it should be good enough for most common use cases. Today, I set up a copr repository with the current openssh from Fedora + the patch [2] for anyone to test and provide feedback, either here on the mailing list, or in the github PR according to ones preferences. I am looking for any kind of feedback from the idea through the usability, implementation. Is this something you would like to see in Fedora soon? Do you have something against this? Is your use case missing? [1] https://lists.mindrot.org/pipermail/openssh-unix-dev/2020-June/038594.html [2] https://github.com/openssh/openssh-portable/pull/194/ [3] https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/jjelen/openssh-sftp/ Thanks, -- Jakub Jelen Senior Software Engineer Crypto Team, Security Engineering Red Hat, Inc. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
