Re: F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
Dejavu was default font in Fedora for many many years, so many packages still rely/assume it. Likely more than necessary, eg in current Fedora Rawhide... $ sudo dnf repoquery -q --whatrequires dejavu-sans-fonts | grep -v i686 | wc -l 43 After the new `default-fonts` Change for Fedora 39, one could hope some of these could be changed to `default-fonts-core-sans` (similarly for serif and mono, but they are lesser in number). ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
> I would like to point to a problem with the current config regarding Arabic > font. > For Arabic text, The dejavu sans is still being displayed in many webpages in > firefox > instead of the noto sans. > However, when switching the system language to arabic, firefox correctly > displays noto > sans arabic which is huge improvment. > But if the system/gnome language is set to english, dejavu is frequently used > to display > some arabic texts in firefox > > The problem with dejavu sans for Arabic is being incredibly ugly and > borderline unreadable > when bolded. > > For example: > -at fedoraproject.org/ar most text exhibit this problem, firefox is using > dejavu to render > arabic instead of noto sans when the system/gnome language is english > -Youtube video titles > -Most text at podcast.google.com > -Wikipedia.org DOESN'T seem to suffer from this problem, It displays noto > sans arabic > regardless whether the system language is Arabic or English. (TLDR: this is > the desired > behavior) > > Picture example of the problem: where the first pic shows FFx rendering the > text using > noto, the second pic it's using dejavu for arabic. > https://imgur.com/a/x97tCp9 > > Is this solvable? How about chromium? This might be a firefox issue if it prefers Dejavu to Noto Arabic (it sounds like that is the case): then I think you should report a bug in Mozilla bugzilla to ask them to change the priorities. I think nowadays Dejavu should be considered more of a fallback than default: but of course it is still the default font in Ubuntu so... Nevertheless I don't see a problem with preferring Noto if installed. You can also open a Fedora bug to track this. Jens ps In general it is better to start a new thread for problems like this, after a long time. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
Update: Apparently, this problem doesn't exist on new install/liveusb because dejavu is not installed so I found out that on my system I have VLC which has a dependency on dejavu.. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
Thanks everyone for this work. I would like to point to a problem with the current config regarding Arabic font. For Arabic text, The dejavu sans is still being displayed in many webpages in firefox instead of the noto sans. However, when switching the system language to arabic, firefox correctly displays noto sans arabic which is huge improvment. But if the system/gnome language is set to english, dejavu is frequently used to display some arabic texts in firefox The problem with dejavu sans for Arabic is being incredibly ugly and borderline unreadable when bolded. For example: -at fedoraproject.org/ar most text exhibit this problem, firefox is using dejavu to render arabic instead of noto sans when the system/gnome language is english -Youtube video titles -Most text at podcast.google.com -Wikipedia.org DOESN'T seem to suffer from this problem, It displays noto sans arabic regardless whether the system language is Arabic or English. (TLDR: this is the desired behavior) Picture example of the problem: where the first pic shows FFx rendering the text using noto, the second pic it's using dejavu for arabic. https://imgur.com/a/x97tCp9 Is this solvable? ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 8:07 AM Brian C. Lane wrote: > lorax templates currently install: > > installpkg abattis-cantarell-fonts > installpkg bitmap-fangsongti-fonts > installpkg dejavu-sans-fonts dejavu-sans-mono-fonts > installpkg google-noto-sans-cjk-ttc-fonts > installpkg google-noto-sans-gurmukhi-fonts > installpkg google-noto-sans-sinhala-vf-fonts > installpkg jomolhari-fonts > installpkg khmer-os-system-fonts > installpkg lohit-assamese-fonts > installpkg lohit-bengali-fonts > installpkg lohit-devanagari-fonts > installpkg lohit-gujarati-fonts > installpkg lohit-kannada-fonts > installpkg lohit-marathi-fonts > installpkg lohit-odia-fonts > installpkg lohit-tamil-fonts > installpkg lohit-telugu-fonts > installpkg paktype-naskh-basic-fonts > installpkg sil-abyssinica-fonts > installpkg sil-padauk-fonts > installpkg sil-scheherazade-fonts > installpkg smc-meera-fonts > installpkg thai-scalable-waree-fonts > installpkg xorg-x11-fonts-misc > > And from the conversation it sounds like it will still need dejavu for > some languages? Possibly dejavu-sans-mono-fonts only. we can drop dejavu-sans-fonts. > It sounds like I should keep dejavu and replace the current noto fonts > with the -vf versions? Can any of these others be removed? No variable fonts version of Noto Sans CJK fonts. We want to replace google-noto-sans-gurmukhi-fonts with -vf. I'll submit PR to update for this later anyway. Thank you for taking a look. > > Brian > > -- > Brian C. Lane (PST8PDT) - weldr.io - lorax - parted - pykickstart > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure -- Akira TAGOH ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 10:01:38AM -0500, Ben Cotton wrote: > The following packages will be installed by default to replace > DejaVu's coverage: > * google-noto-sans-vf-fonts > * google-noto-serif-vf-fonts > * google-noto-sans-mono-vf-fonts > * google-noto-sans-arabic-vf-fonts > * google-noto-sans-cherokee-vf-fonts > * google-noto-sans-thaana-vf-fonts > * google-noto-sans-hebrew-vf-fonts > * google-noto-rashi-hebrew-vf-fonts > * google-noto-sans-math-vf-fonts > * google-noto-sans-armenian-vf-fonts > * google-noto-serif-armenian-vf-fonts > * google-noto-sans-canadian-aboriginal-vf-fonts > * google-noto-sans-georgian-vf-fonts > * google-noto-serif-georgian-vf-fonts > * google-noto-sans-lao-vf-fonts > * google-noto-serif-lao-vf-fonts > * google-noto-serif-gurmukhi-vf-fonts > * google-noto-serif-sinhala-vf-fonts lorax templates currently install: installpkg abattis-cantarell-fonts installpkg bitmap-fangsongti-fonts installpkg dejavu-sans-fonts dejavu-sans-mono-fonts installpkg google-noto-sans-cjk-ttc-fonts installpkg google-noto-sans-gurmukhi-fonts installpkg google-noto-sans-sinhala-vf-fonts installpkg jomolhari-fonts installpkg khmer-os-system-fonts installpkg lohit-assamese-fonts installpkg lohit-bengali-fonts installpkg lohit-devanagari-fonts installpkg lohit-gujarati-fonts installpkg lohit-kannada-fonts installpkg lohit-marathi-fonts installpkg lohit-odia-fonts installpkg lohit-tamil-fonts installpkg lohit-telugu-fonts installpkg paktype-naskh-basic-fonts installpkg sil-abyssinica-fonts installpkg sil-padauk-fonts installpkg sil-scheherazade-fonts installpkg smc-meera-fonts installpkg thai-scalable-waree-fonts installpkg xorg-x11-fonts-misc And from the conversation it sounds like it will still need dejavu for some languages? It sounds like I should keep dejavu and replace the current noto fonts with the -vf versions? Can any of these others be removed? Brian -- Brian C. Lane (PST8PDT) - weldr.io - lorax - parted - pykickstart ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 9:41 PM Neal Becker wrote: > > Sorry, don't understand the question. I was testing with non-variable fonts, > all were "mono". Ah, okay. my proposal was basically to replace with variable fonts. so I was assuming it may be a variable font and you may see some issue because of it. Anyway, that's fine then. also looking forward to hearing your feedback on other applications. > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 9:45 PM Akira TAGOH wrote: >> >> On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 1:08 AM Neal Becker wrote: >> > >> > After seeing this proposal I tried playing with Noto Sans Mono. I >> > find that while it comes with many weights, none look right to me. >> > Language is English. >> > >> > I'm testing in emacs. My usual default is Source code sans semibold >> > and I find that very pleasing. I also tried Dejavu Sans Mono >> > semibold, which looks very similar. But if I try Noto Sans Mono, no >> > weight looks right. Medium is too light, and the next weight, >> > semibold, is too heavy. >> >> Thank you for the feedback. one question just comes to mind. >> Do you see any difference when you try it again with a non-variable >> font of Noto Sans Mono? >> >> > >> > On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 9:59 PM Robert Marcano via devel >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > On 12/29/21 2:20 PM, Neal Gompa wrote: >> > > > On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 12:27 PM Artem Tim >> > > > wrote: >> > > >> >> > > >> Cantarell current default UI font in GNOME (Workstation) will be >> > > >> replaced by Noto font as well or remain? >> > > > >> > > > The current plan is to keep Cantarell for now, though GNOME upstream >> > > > may decide to switch to Noto as KDE Plasma did years ago. >> > > > >> > > >> > > Does Noto have the default font-variant-numeric as tabular-nums? (non >> > > proportional decimal digits) because it will be a welcomed change. >> > > >> > > The current default of Cantarell makes any number showing application a >> > > pain to style, specially on toolkits that use the system font but are >> > > unable to change font variants (Java Swing with GTK Look and Feel). >> > > >> > > Even GNOME applications aren't properly styled for number entry use >> > > cases. See for example Calculator where 111,111,111 looks like a smaller >> > > number than 99,999,999 when the are one on top of the other, because the >> > > font is proportional by default. >> > > ___ >> > > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org >> > > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org >> > > Fedora Code of Conduct: >> > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ >> > > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines >> > > List Archives: >> > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org >> > > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: >> > > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Those who don't understand recursion are doomed to repeat it >> > ___ >> > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org >> > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org >> > Fedora Code of Conduct: >> > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ >> > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines >> > List Archives: >> > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org >> > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: >> > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure >> >> >> >> -- >> Akira TAGOH >> ___ >> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org >> Fedora Code of Conduct: >> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ >> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines >> List Archives: >> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org >> Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: >> https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure > > > > -- > Those who don't understand recursion are doomed to repeat it > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure -- Akira TAGOH ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct:
Re: F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
Akira TAGOH wrote: > Unfortunately Noto Sans Math doesn't have enough coverage to represent > math (as und-zmth orthography defined in fontconfig). I won't do it > (even if I do, it won't be picked up as a math font) and keep STIX as > a default math font this time for all the generic families. OK, good to know. Specialist fonts clearly still have their use. Kevin Kofler ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
Sorry, don't understand the question. I was testing with non-variable fonts, all were "mono". On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 9:45 PM Akira TAGOH wrote: > On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 1:08 AM Neal Becker wrote: > > > > After seeing this proposal I tried playing with Noto Sans Mono. I > > find that while it comes with many weights, none look right to me. > > Language is English. > > > > I'm testing in emacs. My usual default is Source code sans semibold > > and I find that very pleasing. I also tried Dejavu Sans Mono > > semibold, which looks very similar. But if I try Noto Sans Mono, no > > weight looks right. Medium is too light, and the next weight, > > semibold, is too heavy. > > Thank you for the feedback. one question just comes to mind. > Do you see any difference when you try it again with a non-variable > font of Noto Sans Mono? > > > > > On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 9:59 PM Robert Marcano via devel > > wrote: > > > > > > On 12/29/21 2:20 PM, Neal Gompa wrote: > > > > On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 12:27 PM Artem Tim > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Cantarell current default UI font in GNOME (Workstation) will be > replaced by Noto font as well or remain? > > > > > > > > The current plan is to keep Cantarell for now, though GNOME upstream > > > > may decide to switch to Noto as KDE Plasma did years ago. > > > > > > > > > > Does Noto have the default font-variant-numeric as tabular-nums? (non > > > proportional decimal digits) because it will be a welcomed change. > > > > > > The current default of Cantarell makes any number showing application a > > > pain to style, specially on toolkits that use the system font but are > > > unable to change font variants (Java Swing with GTK Look and Feel). > > > > > > Even GNOME applications aren't properly styled for number entry use > > > cases. See for example Calculator where 111,111,111 looks like a > smaller > > > number than 99,999,999 when the are one on top of the other, because > the > > > font is proportional by default. > > > ___ > > > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > > > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > > > List Guidelines: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > > > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure > > > > > > > > -- > > Those who don't understand recursion are doomed to repeat it > > ___ > > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure > > > > -- > Akira TAGOH > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure > -- *Those who don't understand recursion are doomed to repeat it* ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 7:45 PM Akira TAGOH wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 11:07 PM Kevin Kofler via devel > wrote: > > Another case is the math symbols: Should the default sans-serif math font be > > changed to Noto Sans Math? STIX is a serif font, so it probably makes sense > > to keep as the serif math font (also considering that there is, at least at > > this time, no Noto Serif Math). For cases where the distinction matters, > > see, e.g., the summation sign (clearly visible serifs), the integral sign > > (dots at the ends that are a form of serifs), or the partial derivative sign > > (constant stroke thickness in Noto Sans Math vs. variable in STIX). > > Good point. Yes, that makes sense. I'll update the proposal with it. thanks! Unfortunately Noto Sans Math doesn't have enough coverage to represent math (as und-zmth orthography defined in fontconfig). I won't do it (even if I do, it won't be picked up as a math font) and keep STIX as a default math font this time for all the generic families. > > > > > Kevin Kofler > > ___ > > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > > Fedora Code of Conduct: > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > > List Archives: > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure > > > > -- > Akira TAGOH -- Akira TAGOH ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 1:08 AM Neal Becker wrote: > > After seeing this proposal I tried playing with Noto Sans Mono. I > find that while it comes with many weights, none look right to me. > Language is English. > > I'm testing in emacs. My usual default is Source code sans semibold > and I find that very pleasing. I also tried Dejavu Sans Mono > semibold, which looks very similar. But if I try Noto Sans Mono, no > weight looks right. Medium is too light, and the next weight, > semibold, is too heavy. Thank you for the feedback. one question just comes to mind. Do you see any difference when you try it again with a non-variable font of Noto Sans Mono? > > On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 9:59 PM Robert Marcano via devel > wrote: > > > > On 12/29/21 2:20 PM, Neal Gompa wrote: > > > On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 12:27 PM Artem Tim wrote: > > >> > > >> Cantarell current default UI font in GNOME (Workstation) will be > > >> replaced by Noto font as well or remain? > > > > > > The current plan is to keep Cantarell for now, though GNOME upstream > > > may decide to switch to Noto as KDE Plasma did years ago. > > > > > > > Does Noto have the default font-variant-numeric as tabular-nums? (non > > proportional decimal digits) because it will be a welcomed change. > > > > The current default of Cantarell makes any number showing application a > > pain to style, specially on toolkits that use the system font but are > > unable to change font variants (Java Swing with GTK Look and Feel). > > > > Even GNOME applications aren't properly styled for number entry use > > cases. See for example Calculator where 111,111,111 looks like a smaller > > number than 99,999,999 when the are one on top of the other, because the > > font is proportional by default. > > ___ > > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > > Fedora Code of Conduct: > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > > List Archives: > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure > > > > -- > Those who don't understand recursion are doomed to repeat it > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure -- Akira TAGOH ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 11:07 PM Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: > Another case is the math symbols: Should the default sans-serif math font be > changed to Noto Sans Math? STIX is a serif font, so it probably makes sense > to keep as the serif math font (also considering that there is, at least at > this time, no Noto Serif Math). For cases where the distinction matters, > see, e.g., the summation sign (clearly visible serifs), the integral sign > (dots at the ends that are a form of serifs), or the partial derivative sign > (constant stroke thickness in Noto Sans Math vs. variable in STIX). Good point. Yes, that makes sense. I'll update the proposal with it. thanks! > > Kevin Kofler > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure -- Akira TAGOH ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: > I see in this table that there are still a bunch of languages using > non-Noto fonts where there appears to be a Noto equivalent available, > e.g., https://fonts.google.com/noto shows me Devanagari, Bengali, and > Tamil on the first page whereas your table indicates that Lohit fonts will > continue to be used there. What is the reason for that? Are the Noto fonts > for those scripts incomplete? I think using Noto wherever possible would > lead to a more consistent experience. Another case is the math symbols: Should the default sans-serif math font be changed to Noto Sans Math? STIX is a serif font, so it probably makes sense to keep as the serif math font (also considering that there is, at least at this time, no Noto Serif Math). For cases where the distinction matters, see, e.g., the summation sign (clearly visible serifs), the integral sign (dots at the ends that are a form of serifs), or the partial derivative sign (constant stroke thickness in Noto Sans Math vs. variable in STIX). Kevin Kofler ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 7:52 AM Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: > I see in this table that there are still a bunch of languages using non-Noto > fonts where there appears to be a Noto equivalent available, e.g., > https://fonts.google.com/noto shows me Devanagari, Bengali, and Tamil on the > first page whereas your table indicates that Lohit fonts will continue to be > used there. What is the reason for that? Are the Noto fonts for those > scripts incomplete? I think using Noto wherever possible would lead to a > more consistent experience. Asking someone to get an answer for this. I'll get back to you soon, but Lohit continues to be maintained. and I couldn't get enough feedback whether Lohit should be replaced with Noto or not. so I set the goal for this proposal just to replace DejaVu with Noto as the initial plan. As you said, there are other languages Noto has the coverage. If they have enough quality to be replaced, I would strongly agree with you. > > Kevin Kofler > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure -- Akira TAGOH ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 1:28 AM Igor Raits wrote: > Will all of them be installed by default or depending on langpacks selection? Yes. Basically upgrading will be done by langpacks package update. > Is it safe to delete DejaVu fonts assuming they are not used by any known app? It would be supposed to be so. > I think this paragraph explains how to test already applied change, > but not really how to "test it before it lands"… Do you think it is > possible to describe it here? The result you get would be the same to something in f35 cells if you try to test it before landing. > Also some instructions / automation to revert the change? As said, all the upgrade process will be done by langpacks. Even if you already upgraded and installed this change, reverted changes will also be delivered through langpacks. HTH, -- Akira TAGOH ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
On Thu, Dec 30 2021 at 11:06:18 AM -0500, Neal Becker wrote: I'm testing in emacs. I'm going to suggest testing in web browsers too, because the change is going to be especially noticeable there. A *lot* of websites use default fonts. I find https://lwn.net is a good test page. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
After seeing this proposal I tried playing with Noto Sans Mono. I find that while it comes with many weights, none look right to me. Language is English. I'm testing in emacs. My usual default is Source code sans semibold and I find that very pleasing. I also tried Dejavu Sans Mono semibold, which looks very similar. But if I try Noto Sans Mono, no weight looks right. Medium is too light, and the next weight, semibold, is too heavy. On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 9:59 PM Robert Marcano via devel wrote: > > On 12/29/21 2:20 PM, Neal Gompa wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 12:27 PM Artem Tim wrote: > >> > >> Cantarell current default UI font in GNOME (Workstation) will be replaced > >> by Noto font as well or remain? > > > > The current plan is to keep Cantarell for now, though GNOME upstream > > may decide to switch to Noto as KDE Plasma did years ago. > > > > Does Noto have the default font-variant-numeric as tabular-nums? (non > proportional decimal digits) because it will be a welcomed change. > > The current default of Cantarell makes any number showing application a > pain to style, specially on toolkits that use the system font but are > unable to change font variants (Java Swing with GTK Look and Feel). > > Even GNOME applications aren't properly styled for number entry use > cases. See for example Calculator where 111,111,111 looks like a smaller > number than 99,999,999 when the are one on top of the other, because the > font is proportional by default. > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure -- Those who don't understand recursion are doomed to repeat it ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
On 12/29/21 2:20 PM, Neal Gompa wrote: On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 12:27 PM Artem Tim wrote: Cantarell current default UI font in GNOME (Workstation) will be replaced by Noto font as well or remain? The current plan is to keep Cantarell for now, though GNOME upstream may decide to switch to Noto as KDE Plasma did years ago. Does Noto have the default font-variant-numeric as tabular-nums? (non proportional decimal digits) because it will be a welcomed change. The current default of Cantarell makes any number showing application a pain to style, specially on toolkits that use the system font but are unable to change font variants (Java Swing with GTK Look and Feel). Even GNOME applications aren't properly styled for number entry use cases. See for example Calculator where 111,111,111 looks like a smaller number than 99,999,999 when the are one on top of the other, because the font is proportional by default. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
Ben Cotton wrote: > == Summary == > Changing the default fonts for various languages to Noto Fonts as much > as possible, to make consistency on the text rendering. > > == Owner == > * Name: [[User:Tagoh|Akira TAGOH]] > * Email: Considering that DejaVu had been chosen as the default font for its high coverage (by the standards at that time), that that coverage has been significantly surpassed by Noto, and that DejaVu appears to be unmaintained upstream (no commits for 5 years, whereas it used to be released every 2 weeks or so to improve coverage back in the day), this looks like a reasonable thing to do. Also note that Noto is already the default in KDE Plasma. > == Detailed Description == > For a long time we have used DejaVu fonts as the default font for > European and other language scripts. On the other hand some language > scripts are not covered by DejaVu and hence have other default fonts. > (A few languages like Chinese, Japanese and Korean, as well as > Gurmukhi, Sinhala, and emoji are already using Noto fonts by default > for some time.) This situation leads to inconsistencies in text > rendering on applications and desktops, particularly when mixing > different character sets. Further Noto fonts bring some further > advantages: the fonts are generally higher quality and support > variable fonts for most scripts, making them more compact. > > This change aims to provide better experience and consistent text > rendering across more languages by replacing DejaVu with Noto as the > general system default set of fonts. +1 However: > And you can check > [https://tagoh.fedorapeople.org/fonts/noto/f36-noto.html the table] to > see what languages will be affected by this change. I see in this table that there are still a bunch of languages using non-Noto fonts where there appears to be a Noto equivalent available, e.g., https://fonts.google.com/noto shows me Devanagari, Bengali, and Tamil on the first page whereas your table indicates that Lohit fonts will continue to be used there. What is the reason for that? Are the Noto fonts for those scripts incomplete? I think using Noto wherever possible would lead to a more consistent experience. Kevin Kofler ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 12:27 PM Artem Tim wrote: > > Cantarell current default UI font in GNOME (Workstation) will be replaced by > Noto font as well or remain? The current plan is to keep Cantarell for now, though GNOME upstream may decide to switch to Noto as KDE Plasma did years ago. -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth! ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
Cantarell current default UI font in GNOME (Workstation) will be replaced by Noto font as well or remain? ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
Re: F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
Hello,
On Wed, Dec 29, 2021 at 4:04 PM Ben Cotton wrote:
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/DefaultToNotoFonts
>
> == Summary ==
> Changing the default fonts for various languages to Noto Fonts as much
> as possible, to make consistency on the text rendering.
>
> == Owner ==
> * Name: [[User:Tagoh|Akira TAGOH]]
> * Email:
>
>
> == Detailed Description ==
> For a long time we have used DejaVu fonts as the default font for
> European and other language scripts. On the other hand some language
> scripts are not covered by DejaVu and hence have other default fonts.
> (A few languages like Chinese, Japanese and Korean, as well as
> Gurmukhi, Sinhala, and emoji are already using Noto fonts by default
> for some time.) This situation leads to inconsistencies in text
> rendering on applications and desktops, particularly when mixing
> different character sets. Further Noto fonts bring some further
> advantages: the fonts are generally higher quality and support
> variable fonts for most scripts, making them more compact.
>
> This change aims to provide better experience and consistent text
> rendering across more languages by replacing DejaVu with Noto as the
> general system default set of fonts.
>
> The following packages will be installed by default to replace
> DejaVu's coverage:
> * google-noto-sans-vf-fonts
> * google-noto-serif-vf-fonts
> * google-noto-sans-mono-vf-fonts
> * google-noto-sans-arabic-vf-fonts
> * google-noto-sans-cherokee-vf-fonts
> * google-noto-sans-thaana-vf-fonts
> * google-noto-sans-hebrew-vf-fonts
> * google-noto-rashi-hebrew-vf-fonts
> * google-noto-sans-math-vf-fonts
> * google-noto-sans-armenian-vf-fonts
> * google-noto-serif-armenian-vf-fonts
> * google-noto-sans-canadian-aboriginal-vf-fonts
> * google-noto-sans-georgian-vf-fonts
> * google-noto-serif-georgian-vf-fonts
> * google-noto-sans-lao-vf-fonts
> * google-noto-serif-lao-vf-fonts
> * google-noto-serif-gurmukhi-vf-fonts
> * google-noto-serif-sinhala-vf-fonts
Will all of them be installed by default or depending on langpacks selection?
> And you can check
> [https://tagoh.fedorapeople.org/fonts/noto/f36-noto.html the table] to
> see what languages will be affected by this change.
>
>
> == Benefit to Fedora ==
> We would get better text rendering on applications and desktops. Also
> this change should save about 6MB on the fresh install.
>
>
> $ rpm -qlv dejavu-sans-fonts dejavu-serif-fonts dejavu-sans-mono-fonts
> | awk 'BEGIN{a=0}{a+=$5}END{print a}'
> 10789272
>
> $ rpm -qlv google-noto-sans-vf-fonts google-noto-serif-vf-fonts
> google-noto-sans-mono-vf-fonts google-noto-sans-arabic-vf-fonts
> google-noto-sans-cherokee-vf-fonts google-noto-sans-thaana-vf-fonts
> google-noto
> -sans-hebrew-vf-fonts google-noto-rashi-hebrew-vf-fonts
> google-noto-sans-math-vf-fonts google-noto-sans-armenian-vf-f
> onts google-noto-serif-armenian-vf-fonts
> google-noto-sans-canadian-aboriginal-vf-fonts
> google-noto-sans-georgian-vf-f
> onts google-noto-serif-georgian-vf-fonts google-noto-sans-lao-vf-fonts
> google-noto-serif-lao-vf-fonts google-noto-serif-gurmukhi-vf-fonts
> google-noto-serif-sinhala-vf-fonts | awk 'BEGIN{a=0}{a+=$5}END{print
> a}'
> 4753340
>
>
> == Scope ==
> * Proposal owners:
> ** Update google-noto-fonts and dejavu-fonts to change the priority
> for fontconfig config.
> ** Update langpacks to update the dependency.
> ** Update comps to make Noto fonts default.
> ** Update lorax templates related to DejaVu.
> ** Update fontconfig to change the order of fonts in the builtin config.
>
> * Other developers:
> ** Packagers who owns packages implicitly expects DejaVu is installed
> by default will needs to update the dependency for them.
>
> * Release engineering: [https://pagure.io/releng/issue/10492 #10492]
> * Policies and guidelines: N/A (not needed for this Change)
> * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
> * Alignment with Objectives:
>
>
> == Upgrade/compatibility impact ==
> The migration will be done by updating langpacks. after upgrading and
> rebooting, the default font will be Noto instead of DejaVu.
Is it safe to delete DejaVu fonts assuming they are not used by any known app?
> Since this change aims to switch non-variable fonts to variable fonts,
> it may not works with legacy applications as expected such as missing
> some variants. in that case, you can install non-variable fonts
> packages. the package name will be similar and simply drop `-vf` from
> the variable fonts packages.
>
>
> == How To Test ==
> * This change can be simply tested by `fc-match` command like
> `fc-match sans:lang=`, `fc-match serif:lang= language>` and `fc-match monospace:lang=`. You can
> check the expected result from
> [https://tagoh.fedorapeople.org/fonts/noto/f36-noto.html the table].
> * Test the text rendering in your favorite application, which use the
> system default font.
I think this paragraph explains how to test already applied change,
but not really how to "test it before it lands"… Do
F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/DefaultToNotoFonts
== Summary ==
Changing the default fonts for various languages to Noto Fonts as much
as possible, to make consistency on the text rendering.
== Owner ==
* Name: [[User:Tagoh|Akira TAGOH]]
* Email:
== Detailed Description ==
For a long time we have used DejaVu fonts as the default font for
European and other language scripts. On the other hand some language
scripts are not covered by DejaVu and hence have other default fonts.
(A few languages like Chinese, Japanese and Korean, as well as
Gurmukhi, Sinhala, and emoji are already using Noto fonts by default
for some time.) This situation leads to inconsistencies in text
rendering on applications and desktops, particularly when mixing
different character sets. Further Noto fonts bring some further
advantages: the fonts are generally higher quality and support
variable fonts for most scripts, making them more compact.
This change aims to provide better experience and consistent text
rendering across more languages by replacing DejaVu with Noto as the
general system default set of fonts.
The following packages will be installed by default to replace
DejaVu's coverage:
* google-noto-sans-vf-fonts
* google-noto-serif-vf-fonts
* google-noto-sans-mono-vf-fonts
* google-noto-sans-arabic-vf-fonts
* google-noto-sans-cherokee-vf-fonts
* google-noto-sans-thaana-vf-fonts
* google-noto-sans-hebrew-vf-fonts
* google-noto-rashi-hebrew-vf-fonts
* google-noto-sans-math-vf-fonts
* google-noto-sans-armenian-vf-fonts
* google-noto-serif-armenian-vf-fonts
* google-noto-sans-canadian-aboriginal-vf-fonts
* google-noto-sans-georgian-vf-fonts
* google-noto-serif-georgian-vf-fonts
* google-noto-sans-lao-vf-fonts
* google-noto-serif-lao-vf-fonts
* google-noto-serif-gurmukhi-vf-fonts
* google-noto-serif-sinhala-vf-fonts
And you can check
[https://tagoh.fedorapeople.org/fonts/noto/f36-noto.html the table] to
see what languages will be affected by this change.
== Benefit to Fedora ==
We would get better text rendering on applications and desktops. Also
this change should save about 6MB on the fresh install.
$ rpm -qlv dejavu-sans-fonts dejavu-serif-fonts dejavu-sans-mono-fonts
| awk 'BEGIN{a=0}{a+=$5}END{print a}'
10789272
$ rpm -qlv google-noto-sans-vf-fonts google-noto-serif-vf-fonts
google-noto-sans-mono-vf-fonts google-noto-sans-arabic-vf-fonts
google-noto-sans-cherokee-vf-fonts google-noto-sans-thaana-vf-fonts
google-noto
-sans-hebrew-vf-fonts google-noto-rashi-hebrew-vf-fonts
google-noto-sans-math-vf-fonts google-noto-sans-armenian-vf-f
onts google-noto-serif-armenian-vf-fonts
google-noto-sans-canadian-aboriginal-vf-fonts
google-noto-sans-georgian-vf-f
onts google-noto-serif-georgian-vf-fonts google-noto-sans-lao-vf-fonts
google-noto-serif-lao-vf-fonts google-noto-serif-gurmukhi-vf-fonts
google-noto-serif-sinhala-vf-fonts | awk 'BEGIN{a=0}{a+=$5}END{print
a}'
4753340
== Scope ==
* Proposal owners:
** Update google-noto-fonts and dejavu-fonts to change the priority
for fontconfig config.
** Update langpacks to update the dependency.
** Update comps to make Noto fonts default.
** Update lorax templates related to DejaVu.
** Update fontconfig to change the order of fonts in the builtin config.
* Other developers:
** Packagers who owns packages implicitly expects DejaVu is installed
by default will needs to update the dependency for them.
* Release engineering: [https://pagure.io/releng/issue/10492 #10492]
* Policies and guidelines: N/A (not needed for this Change)
* Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
* Alignment with Objectives:
== Upgrade/compatibility impact ==
The migration will be done by updating langpacks. after upgrading and
rebooting, the default font will be Noto instead of DejaVu.
Since this change aims to switch non-variable fonts to variable fonts,
it may not works with legacy applications as expected such as missing
some variants. in that case, you can install non-variable fonts
packages. the package name will be similar and simply drop `-vf` from
the variable fonts packages.
== How To Test ==
* This change can be simply tested by `fc-match` command like
`fc-match sans:lang=`, `fc-match serif:lang=` and `fc-match monospace:lang=`. You can
check the expected result from
[https://tagoh.fedorapeople.org/fonts/noto/f36-noto.html the table].
* Test the text rendering in your favorite application, which use the
system default font.
== User Experience ==
Users will see the default font is changed to Noto by this change
except for some languages which has much better quality of fonts.
== Dependencies ==
Only dejavu-fonts, langpacks, and fontconfig are required to update.
Other packages which explicitly has a dependency to dejavu-fonts are
basicaly optional to update.
== Contingency Plan ==
* Contingency mechanism: Revert the relevant packages updated.
* Contingency deadline: Beta freeze
* Blocks release? No
== Documentation ==
None.
== Release Notes ==
The default fonts for
F36 Change: Default To Noto Fonts (System-Wide Change proposal)
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/DefaultToNotoFonts
== Summary ==
Changing the default fonts for various languages to Noto Fonts as much
as possible, to make consistency on the text rendering.
== Owner ==
* Name: [[User:Tagoh|Akira TAGOH]]
* Email:
== Detailed Description ==
For a long time we have used DejaVu fonts as the default font for
European and other language scripts. On the other hand some language
scripts are not covered by DejaVu and hence have other default fonts.
(A few languages like Chinese, Japanese and Korean, as well as
Gurmukhi, Sinhala, and emoji are already using Noto fonts by default
for some time.) This situation leads to inconsistencies in text
rendering on applications and desktops, particularly when mixing
different character sets. Further Noto fonts bring some further
advantages: the fonts are generally higher quality and support
variable fonts for most scripts, making them more compact.
This change aims to provide better experience and consistent text
rendering across more languages by replacing DejaVu with Noto as the
general system default set of fonts.
The following packages will be installed by default to replace
DejaVu's coverage:
* google-noto-sans-vf-fonts
* google-noto-serif-vf-fonts
* google-noto-sans-mono-vf-fonts
* google-noto-sans-arabic-vf-fonts
* google-noto-sans-cherokee-vf-fonts
* google-noto-sans-thaana-vf-fonts
* google-noto-sans-hebrew-vf-fonts
* google-noto-rashi-hebrew-vf-fonts
* google-noto-sans-math-vf-fonts
* google-noto-sans-armenian-vf-fonts
* google-noto-serif-armenian-vf-fonts
* google-noto-sans-canadian-aboriginal-vf-fonts
* google-noto-sans-georgian-vf-fonts
* google-noto-serif-georgian-vf-fonts
* google-noto-sans-lao-vf-fonts
* google-noto-serif-lao-vf-fonts
* google-noto-serif-gurmukhi-vf-fonts
* google-noto-serif-sinhala-vf-fonts
And you can check
[https://tagoh.fedorapeople.org/fonts/noto/f36-noto.html the table] to
see what languages will be affected by this change.
== Benefit to Fedora ==
We would get better text rendering on applications and desktops. Also
this change should save about 6MB on the fresh install.
$ rpm -qlv dejavu-sans-fonts dejavu-serif-fonts dejavu-sans-mono-fonts
| awk 'BEGIN{a=0}{a+=$5}END{print a}'
10789272
$ rpm -qlv google-noto-sans-vf-fonts google-noto-serif-vf-fonts
google-noto-sans-mono-vf-fonts google-noto-sans-arabic-vf-fonts
google-noto-sans-cherokee-vf-fonts google-noto-sans-thaana-vf-fonts
google-noto
-sans-hebrew-vf-fonts google-noto-rashi-hebrew-vf-fonts
google-noto-sans-math-vf-fonts google-noto-sans-armenian-vf-f
onts google-noto-serif-armenian-vf-fonts
google-noto-sans-canadian-aboriginal-vf-fonts
google-noto-sans-georgian-vf-f
onts google-noto-serif-georgian-vf-fonts google-noto-sans-lao-vf-fonts
google-noto-serif-lao-vf-fonts google-noto-serif-gurmukhi-vf-fonts
google-noto-serif-sinhala-vf-fonts | awk 'BEGIN{a=0}{a+=$5}END{print
a}'
4753340
== Scope ==
* Proposal owners:
** Update google-noto-fonts and dejavu-fonts to change the priority
for fontconfig config.
** Update langpacks to update the dependency.
** Update comps to make Noto fonts default.
** Update lorax templates related to DejaVu.
** Update fontconfig to change the order of fonts in the builtin config.
* Other developers:
** Packagers who owns packages implicitly expects DejaVu is installed
by default will needs to update the dependency for them.
* Release engineering: [https://pagure.io/releng/issue/10492 #10492]
* Policies and guidelines: N/A (not needed for this Change)
* Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
* Alignment with Objectives:
== Upgrade/compatibility impact ==
The migration will be done by updating langpacks. after upgrading and
rebooting, the default font will be Noto instead of DejaVu.
Since this change aims to switch non-variable fonts to variable fonts,
it may not works with legacy applications as expected such as missing
some variants. in that case, you can install non-variable fonts
packages. the package name will be similar and simply drop `-vf` from
the variable fonts packages.
== How To Test ==
* This change can be simply tested by `fc-match` command like
`fc-match sans:lang=`, `fc-match serif:lang=` and `fc-match monospace:lang=`. You can
check the expected result from
[https://tagoh.fedorapeople.org/fonts/noto/f36-noto.html the table].
* Test the text rendering in your favorite application, which use the
system default font.
== User Experience ==
Users will see the default font is changed to Noto by this change
except for some languages which has much better quality of fonts.
== Dependencies ==
Only dejavu-fonts, langpacks, and fontconfig are required to update.
Other packages which explicitly has a dependency to dejavu-fonts are
basicaly optional to update.
== Contingency Plan ==
* Contingency mechanism: Revert the relevant packages updated.
* Contingency deadline: Beta freeze
* Blocks release? No
== Documentation ==
None.
== Release Notes ==
The default fonts for
