Re: Receiving bugs from Crash Catcher with [faf] in the subject line
On 24 Apr 2013 01:22, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: On 22/04/13 10:55 AM, Rave it wrote: Am Mon, 22 Apr 2013 16:37:34 + schrieb devel-requ...@lists.fedoraproject.org: For me as compiz maintainer those info's are complete useless whithout having more infomation what the user did if abrt would trigered. Maybe thy played arround without knowledge about the programm and did wrong things? Better the abrt guys forced the user to write what they did if abrt trigger a alarm. For me a bug whithout a comment isn't a bug. And honestly, if i get such bugs without a comment, i asked the user friendly what they did. In case of 50% i get no answer. abrt catches *crashes*. Code should really never crash. Even if the user 'did something wrong', that's not an excuse for crashing. You might need more info on what the users did in some cases to diagnose the crash, but a crash is basically always a bug. Yep, I'd agree on that but in the case of something like a crash in cogl its usually the driver and not cogl and that needs information from the user and is useless without it. Peter -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Receiving bugs from Crash Catcher with [faf] in the subject line
On Mon, 2013-04-22 at 17:48 -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote: On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 19:55:02 +0200 Rave it chat-to...@raveit.de wrote: Am Mon, 22 Apr 2013 16:37:34 + schrieb devel-requ...@lists.fedoraproject.org: For me as compiz maintainer those info's are complete useless whithout having more infomation what the user did if abrt would trigered. Maybe thy played arround without knowledge about the programm and did wrong things? Better the abrt guys forced the user to write what they did if abrt trigger a alarm. For me a bug whithout a comment isn't a bug. And honestly, if i get such bugs without a comment, i asked the user friendly what they did. In case of 50% i get no answer. 50% is much higher than I have gotten. ;) On any new abrt bugs I get, I typically: - Check to see if the submitter filled in the 'description of problem' which something I could try and work into a reproducer. I'd say perhaps 1% do. - If not, then I ask them what they were doing when the crash happened and if they can reproduce it. I'd say 90% never reply to that and the bug sits there until EOL. Some folks do, and those I can gather info from or ask various troubleshooting things which often results in a fix or at least an upstream bug. The same workflow, same problems with the exception that after a while I close as insufficientdata (to avoid having to wait for EOL). Pierre -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Receiving bugs from Crash Catcher with [faf] in the subject line
On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 12:48 AM, Kevin Fenzi ke...@scrye.com wrote: On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 19:55:02 +0200 Rave it chat-to...@raveit.de wrote: Am Mon, 22 Apr 2013 16:37:34 + schrieb devel-requ...@lists.fedoraproject.org: For me as compiz maintainer those info's are complete useless whithout having more infomation what the user did if abrt would trigered. Maybe thy played arround without knowledge about the programm and did wrong things? Better the abrt guys forced the user to write what they did if abrt trigger a alarm. For me a bug whithout a comment isn't a bug. And honestly, if i get such bugs without a comment, i asked the user friendly what they did. In case of 50% i get no answer. 50% is much higher than I have gotten. ;) On any new abrt bugs I get, I typically: - Check to see if the submitter filled in the 'description of problem' which something I could try and work into a reproducer. I'd say perhaps 1% do. - If not, then I ask them what they were doing when the crash happened and if they can reproduce it. I'd say 90% never reply to that and the bug sits there until EOL. Some folks do, and those I can gather info from or ask various troubleshooting things which often results in a fix or at least an upstream bug. I'm not personally finding these faf reports of much use. They seem to have a sanitized backtrace with even less info in them, and I also have no way at all of finding out from people who saw this what they were doing or ask them debugging steps. I agree. I mean it's very interesting that I suddenly find out that one of the packages I maintain has a crash that has repeated 30 times but without knowing who they are and how to be able to recreate the problem or asking the reporter for debug or information about the crash or HW associated the bug is completely useless and just wastes the little time I have for bug reporting. In a lot of the packages I (co)maintain a crash without context is completely useless. Peter -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Receiving bugs from Crash Catcher with [faf] in the subject line
Am Montag, den 22.04.2013, 16:05 +0200 schrieb Richard Marko: More feedback is welcome. 1. Announce changes like this one in advance on devel-announce. 2. Provide some documentation about FAF. What do these bugs mean to developers and package maintainers. hat are we supposed to do? Kind regards, Christoph -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Receiving bugs from Crash Catcher with [faf] in the subject line
On 04/23/2013 05:27 PM, Christoph Wickert wrote: Am Montag, den 22.04.2013, 16:05 +0200 schrieb Richard Marko: More feedback is welcome. 1. Announce changes like this one in advance on devel-announce. I will. 2. Provide some documentation about FAF. What do these bugs mean to developers and package maintainers. hat are we supposed to do? Please read my other email from today (ABRT, Faf and current state of bug reporting) and let me know if it's sufficient. Cheers, -- Richard Marko -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Receiving bugs from Crash Catcher with [faf] in the subject line
On 22/04/13 10:55 AM, Rave it wrote: Am Mon, 22 Apr 2013 16:37:34 + schrieb devel-requ...@lists.fedoraproject.org: For me as compiz maintainer those info's are complete useless whithout having more infomation what the user did if abrt would trigered. Maybe thy played arround without knowledge about the programm and did wrong things? Better the abrt guys forced the user to write what they did if abrt trigger a alarm. For me a bug whithout a comment isn't a bug. And honestly, if i get such bugs without a comment, i asked the user friendly what they did. In case of 50% i get no answer. abrt catches *crashes*. Code should really never crash. Even if the user 'did something wrong', that's not an excuse for crashing. You might need more info on what the users did in some cases to diagnose the crash, but a crash is basically always a bug. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Receiving bugs from Crash Catcher with [faf] in the subject line
Seems like someone turned on a bot this morning. Just a heads up.. these have [faf] in the subject line and seem to be filing bugs on old components (for me at least). Looks like it's just starting to make the rounds. Who owns this? Dan -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Receiving bugs from Crash Catcher with [faf] in the subject line
On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Dan Mashal dan.mas...@gmail.com wrote: Seems like someone turned on a bot this morning. Just a heads up.. these have [faf] in the subject line and seem to be filing bugs on old components (for me at least). Looks like it's just starting to make the rounds. Who owns this? The age of the components look fine for the ones that I've received and some of them even look useful but it's always nice for the people that are going to generate mass bug spam to sent a heads up to the list so people are aware it's happening. Peter -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Receiving bugs from Crash Catcher with [faf] in the subject line
On 04/22/2013 02:24 PM, Dan Mashal wrote: Seems like someone turned on a bot this morning. Just a heads up.. these have [faf] in the subject line and seem to be filing bugs on old components (for me at least). Looks like it's just starting to make the rounds. Who owns this? Dan Yes, we did that and started filing bugs for everything that seemed worth (even old stuff). After initial sync between bugzilla and faf server it won't create as much tickets for old components as it does now which is partially caused by the order in which the bot creates these tickets. Creation of new tickets is stopped for now until we fix few issues reported to us. More feedback is welcome. -- Richard Marko -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Receiving bugs from Crash Catcher with [faf] in the subject line
On 04/22/2013 06:24 AM, Dan Mashal wrote: Seems like someone turned on a bot this morning. Just a heads up.. these have [faf] in the subject line and seem to be filing bugs on old components (for me at least). Looks like it's just starting to make the rounds. Who owns this? Dan I also find it annoying that the crash-catcher list is not open, since that is where comments are asked to be sent to. I really don't want to have to subscribe to yet another list. -- Orion Poplawski Technical Manager 303-415-9701 x222 NWRA, Boulder/CoRA Office FAX: 303-415-9702 3380 Mitchell Lane or...@nwra.com Boulder, CO 80301 http://www.nwra.com -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Receiving bugs from Crash Catcher with [faf] in the subject line
On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 8:05 AM, Richard Marko rma...@redhat.com wrote: Yes, we did that and started filing bugs for everything that seemed worth (even old stuff). After initial sync between bugzilla and faf server it won't create as much tickets for old components as it does now which is partially caused by the order in which the bot creates these tickets. Creation of new tickets is stopped for now until we fix few issues reported to us. More feedback is welcome. Here is some feedback. The bugs say to send email to crash-catc...@lists.fedorahosted.org if a bug report is wrong or not helpful, so that the tool may be improved. I sent an email with some suggestions. It bounced back: You need to subscribe before you can post to this list. That's not very friendly. Either suggest an open email address to which suggestions can be sent, or modify the bugzilla message so that the necessity of subscribing before posting is made clear. Regards, -- Jerry James http://www.jamezone.org/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Re: Receiving bugs from Crash Catcher with [faf] in the subject line
Am Mon, 22 Apr 2013 16:37:34 + schrieb devel-requ...@lists.fedoraproject.org: For me as compiz maintainer those info's are complete useless whithout having more infomation what the user did if abrt would trigered. Maybe thy played arround without knowledge about the programm and did wrong things? Better the abrt guys forced the user to write what they did if abrt trigger a alarm. For me a bug whithout a comment isn't a bug. And honestly, if i get such bugs without a comment, i asked the user friendly what they did. In case of 50% i get no answer. Wolfgang -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Receiving bugs from Crash Catcher with [faf] in the subject line
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 19:55:02 +0200 Rave it chat-to...@raveit.de wrote: Am Mon, 22 Apr 2013 16:37:34 + schrieb devel-requ...@lists.fedoraproject.org: For me as compiz maintainer those info's are complete useless whithout having more infomation what the user did if abrt would trigered. Maybe thy played arround without knowledge about the programm and did wrong things? Better the abrt guys forced the user to write what they did if abrt trigger a alarm. For me a bug whithout a comment isn't a bug. And honestly, if i get such bugs without a comment, i asked the user friendly what they did. In case of 50% i get no answer. 50% is much higher than I have gotten. ;) On any new abrt bugs I get, I typically: - Check to see if the submitter filled in the 'description of problem' which something I could try and work into a reproducer. I'd say perhaps 1% do. - If not, then I ask them what they were doing when the crash happened and if they can reproduce it. I'd say 90% never reply to that and the bug sits there until EOL. Some folks do, and those I can gather info from or ask various troubleshooting things which often results in a fix or at least an upstream bug. I'm not personally finding these faf reports of much use. They seem to have a sanitized backtrace with even less info in them, and I also have no way at all of finding out from people who saw this what they were doing or ask them debugging steps. kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
