Re: Update: AAA replacement login Initiative

[Andrew Lutomirski]

On Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 1:48 AM Adam Williamson 
wrote:

> On Fri, 2020-01-17 at 13:29 -0700, Jerry James wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 12:52 PM Andrew Lutomirski  wrote:
> > > And I have a user story: Andy wants to use a password manager to store
> > > his password for an account in the Online Accounts list. When it’s
> > > time to log in, Andy clicks the account and a system modal dialog
> > > appears asking for a password. Andy would like to click the account in
> > > the password manager and copy the password, but he can’t, because the
> > > dialog is system modal.  So instead, Andy grumbles, dismisses the
> > > dialog, copies the password, and then tries to get the dialog to
> > > reappear before the copied password is auto-cleared from the
> > > clipboard.  Andy also wonders why the system modal dialog is not
> > > visually consistent with the Online Accounts application at all.
> >
> > It isn't just you.  I HATE that modal dialog.  I actively dislike
> > modal dialogs in general, but that particular one has tripped me up so
> > many times
>
> So do I, but it has nothing at all to do with this. That's a GNOME UI
> choice. The authentication system GNOME is talking to has no control
> over it at all.
>
> There has been a GNOME bug open on it approximately forever, btw:
>
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=688434
>

And this, which I just commented on:

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/issues/1410

I would argue that having gnome-online-accounts blame gnome-shell for this
is actually a bit inappropriate.  The behavior of whatever GTK or GNOME API
is being used by gnome-online-accounts is simply so poor that
gnome-online-accounts should stop using it.
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Re: Update: AAA replacement login Initiative

[Adam Williamson]

On Fri, 2020-01-17 at 13:29 -0700, Jerry James wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 12:52 PM Andrew Lutomirski  wrote:
> > And I have a user story: Andy wants to use a password manager to store
> > his password for an account in the Online Accounts list. When it’s
> > time to log in, Andy clicks the account and a system modal dialog
> > appears asking for a password. Andy would like to click the account in
> > the password manager and copy the password, but he can’t, because the
> > dialog is system modal.  So instead, Andy grumbles, dismisses the
> > dialog, copies the password, and then tries to get the dialog to
> > reappear before the copied password is auto-cleared from the
> > clipboard.  Andy also wonders why the system modal dialog is not
> > visually consistent with the Online Accounts application at all.
> 
> It isn't just you.  I HATE that modal dialog.  I actively dislike
> modal dialogs in general, but that particular one has tripped me up so
> many times

So do I, but it has nothing at all to do with this. That's a GNOME UI
choice. The authentication system GNOME is talking to has no control
over it at all.

There has been a GNOME bug open on it approximately forever, btw:

https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=688434
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora
http://www.happyassassin.net
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Re: Update: AAA replacement login Initiative

[Sarah Finn]

Hi all,

Hope everyone is well, thanks for all your comments and thoughts.

I just want to follow up regarding the blog that was scheduled to be
published yesterday with an update on AAA sprint 1 and our plans for sprint
2.

This will not be published until late next week due to travel to DevConf
and other F2F meetings taking place this week. Apologies for any
inconvenience.

Also just to note with many team members travelling to DevConf and F2F
meetings activity on our Scrum board will be limited.

If you would like to see the current status of any of the user stories we
are working on please see here.


Thanks all,

Sarah


On Sat, 18 Jan 2020 at 08:22, Fabio Valentini  wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 05:51 Andrew Lutomirski  wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 1:22 PM Kevin Fenzi  wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 11:51:35AM -0800, Andrew Lutomirski wrote:
>>> > > On Jan 16, 2020, at 3:48 AM, Sarah Finn  wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > 
>>> > > Hi all,
>>> > >
>>> > > I hope you are all well.
>>> > >
>>> > > I would like to invite you to contribute to our new initiative: AAA
>>> replacement login.
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > I’ll offer a couple of suggestions:
>>> >
>>>
>>> Can you please offer these to gnome developers?
>>>
>>> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-online-accounts/issues
>>>
>>
>> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-online-accounts/issues/100
>>
>> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-online-accounts/issues/101
>>
>
> Interesting. I think if you set up Kerberos login with
> gnome-online-accounts, it is actually supposed to autorenew (if it works).
>
> At least I haven't had to type my password to manually renew the Kerberos
> ticket on my machine in years :)
>
> Fabio
>
>
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-- 

Sarah Finn

She/Her

Agile Practitioner

Red Hat 

Waterford, Ireland

sf...@redhat.com
M: 0879830832
@RedHat    Red Hat
  Red Hat


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Re: Update: AAA replacement login Initiative

[Fabio Valentini]

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 05:51 Andrew Lutomirski  wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 1:22 PM Kevin Fenzi  wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 11:51:35AM -0800, Andrew Lutomirski wrote:
>> > > On Jan 16, 2020, at 3:48 AM, Sarah Finn  wrote:
>> > >
>> > > 
>> > > Hi all,
>> > >
>> > > I hope you are all well.
>> > >
>> > > I would like to invite you to contribute to our new initiative: AAA
>> replacement login.
>> > >
>> >
>> > I’ll offer a couple of suggestions:
>> >
>>
>> Can you please offer these to gnome developers?
>>
>> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-online-accounts/issues
>>
>
> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-online-accounts/issues/100
>
> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-online-accounts/issues/101
>

Interesting. I think if you set up Kerberos login with
gnome-online-accounts, it is actually supposed to autorenew (if it works).

At least I haven't had to type my password to manually renew the Kerberos
ticket on my machine in years :)

Fabio


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Re: Update: AAA replacement login Initiative

[Andrew Lutomirski]

On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 1:22 PM Kevin Fenzi  wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 11:51:35AM -0800, Andrew Lutomirski wrote:
> > > On Jan 16, 2020, at 3:48 AM, Sarah Finn  wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I hope you are all well.
> > >
> > > I would like to invite you to contribute to our new initiative: AAA
> replacement login.
> > >
> >
> > I’ll offer a couple of suggestions:
> >
>
> Can you please offer these to gnome developers?
>
> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-online-accounts/issues
>

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-online-accounts/issues/100

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-online-accounts/issues/101
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Re: Update: AAA replacement login Initiative

[John M. Harris Jr]

On Friday, January 17, 2020 2:29:18 PM MST Robbie Harwood wrote:
> Please don't store Kerberos passwords.  Defeats the point 

Storing a kerberos password in a password manager is a non-issue, unless that 
password manager is not locked.

-- 
John M. Harris, Jr.
Splentity

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Re: Update: AAA replacement login Initiative

[John M. Harris Jr]

On Friday, January 17, 2020 12:51:35 PM MST Andrew Lutomirski wrote:
> > On Jan 16, 2020, at 3:48 AM, Sarah Finn  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> > Hi all,
> >
> >
> >
> > I hope you are all well.
> >
> >
> >
> > I would like to invite you to contribute to our new initiative: AAA
> > replacement login.
>
> >
> 
> 
> I’ll offer a couple of suggestions:
> 
> Right now, I enter my Fedora developer password into GNOME Online
> Accounts. It regularly stops working with a worthless message and I
> have to re-enter my password. Maybe it could remember enough of a
> secret to re-authenticate by itself for a while.
> 
> And I have a user story: Andy wants to use a password manager to store
> his password for an account in the Online Accounts list. When it’s
> time to log in, Andy clicks the account and a system modal dialog
> appears asking for a password. Andy would like to click the account in
> the password manager and copy the password, but he can’t, because the
> dialog is system modal.  So instead, Andy grumbles, dismisses the
> dialog, copies the password, and then tries to get the dialog to
> reappear before the copied password is auto-cleared from the
> clipboard.  Andy also wonders why the system modal dialog is not
> visually consistent with the Online Accounts application at all.
> 
> Yes, this is a bit snarky, but there’s a reason that Microsoft
> separated system modal dialog boxes decades ago.  The fact that  GNOME
> supports this grotesque anti-pattern and NetworkManager uses it does
> not justify using it in anything else.

That only applies to GNOME. There is a simple solution here. Don't use GNOME.

-- 
John M. Harris, Jr.
Splentity

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Re: Update: AAA replacement login Initiative

[Robbie Harwood]

Andrew Lutomirski  writes:

>> On Jan 16, 2020, at 3:48 AM, Sarah Finn  wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I hope you are all well.
>>
>> I would like to invite you to contribute to our new initiative: AAA
>> replacement login.
>
> I’ll offer a couple of suggestions:
>
> Right now, I enter my Fedora developer password into GNOME Online
> Accounts. It regularly stops working with a worthless message and I
> have to re-enter my password. Maybe it could remember enough of a
> secret to re-authenticate by itself for a while.

Please don't store Kerberos passwords.  Defeats the point :)

(Renewable tickets yes, passwords no.)

Thanks,
--Robbie


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Re: Update: AAA replacement login Initiative

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 11:51:35AM -0800, Andrew Lutomirski wrote:
> > On Jan 16, 2020, at 3:48 AM, Sarah Finn  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I hope you are all well.
> >
> > I would like to invite you to contribute to our new initiative: AAA 
> > replacement login.
> >
> 
> I’ll offer a couple of suggestions:
> 

Can you please offer these to gnome developers? 

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-online-accounts/issues

Thanks, 

kevin


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Re: Update: AAA replacement login Initiative

[Jerry James]

On Fri, Jan 17, 2020 at 12:52 PM Andrew Lutomirski  wrote:
> And I have a user story: Andy wants to use a password manager to store
> his password for an account in the Online Accounts list. When it’s
> time to log in, Andy clicks the account and a system modal dialog
> appears asking for a password. Andy would like to click the account in
> the password manager and copy the password, but he can’t, because the
> dialog is system modal.  So instead, Andy grumbles, dismisses the
> dialog, copies the password, and then tries to get the dialog to
> reappear before the copied password is auto-cleared from the
> clipboard.  Andy also wonders why the system modal dialog is not
> visually consistent with the Online Accounts application at all.

It isn't just you.  I HATE that modal dialog.  I actively dislike
modal dialogs in general, but that particular one has tripped me up so
many times
-- 
Jerry James
http://www.jamezone.org/
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Re: Update: AAA replacement login Initiative

[Andrew Lutomirski]

> On Jan 16, 2020, at 3:48 AM, Sarah Finn  wrote:
>
> 
> Hi all,
>
> I hope you are all well.
>
> I would like to invite you to contribute to our new initiative: AAA 
> replacement login.
>

I’ll offer a couple of suggestions:

Right now, I enter my Fedora developer password into GNOME Online
Accounts. It regularly stops working with a worthless message and I
have to re-enter my password. Maybe it could remember enough of a
secret to re-authenticate by itself for a while.

And I have a user story: Andy wants to use a password manager to store
his password for an account in the Online Accounts list. When it’s
time to log in, Andy clicks the account and a system modal dialog
appears asking for a password. Andy would like to click the account in
the password manager and copy the password, but he can’t, because the
dialog is system modal.  So instead, Andy grumbles, dismisses the
dialog, copies the password, and then tries to get the dialog to
reappear before the copied password is auto-cleared from the
clipboard.  Andy also wonders why the system modal dialog is not
visually consistent with the Online Accounts application at all.

Yes, this is a bit snarky, but there’s a reason that Microsoft
separated system modal dialog boxes decades ago.  The fact that  GNOME
supports this grotesque anti-pattern and NetworkManager uses it does
not justify using it in anything else.
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Re: Update: AAA replacement login Initiative

[Alexander Bokovoy]

On to, 16 tammi 2020, Kevin Fenzi wrote:

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 07:57:43PM +0100, Björn Persson wrote:

Neal Gompa wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 6:56 AM Fabio Valentini  wrote:
> > - What does AAA stand for? (Or am I supposed to know that already?)
> > - What is this new group actually working on?
> >
> > The only "substantial" thing I can see here are the three words "AAA
> > replacement login", which means nothing to me :sad-face:
>
> AAA = Authentication, Authorization, Accounting
>
> Essentially, we're talking about FAS.

So what the phrase means is that the existing authentication,
authorization and accounting functionality in FAS is to be replaced
with a new "login" that this group will develop?


With this project yes. Much of the heavy lifting with be from freeipa,
but we will need/add an api and interface on top to do what we need.


There will be a talk next week at devconf.cz[1] about the whole effort.
I hope Rick would turn that talk into a blog post at some point so that
we can give a wider coverage of the activities.

[1] https://devconfcz2020a.sched.com/event/YOoW/aaa-in-fedora-infrastructure


--
/ Alexander Bokovoy
Sr. Principal Software Engineer
Security / Identity Management Engineering
Red Hat Limited, Finland
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Re: Update: AAA replacement login Initiative

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 07:57:43PM +0100, Björn Persson wrote:
> Neal Gompa wrote:
> > On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 6:56 AM Fabio Valentini  
> > wrote:
> > > - What does AAA stand for? (Or am I supposed to know that already?)
> > > - What is this new group actually working on?
> > >
> > > The only "substantial" thing I can see here are the three words "AAA
> > > replacement login", which means nothing to me :sad-face:  
> > 
> > AAA = Authentication, Authorization, Accounting
> > 
> > Essentially, we're talking about FAS.
> 
> So what the phrase means is that the existing authentication,
> authorization and accounting functionality in FAS is to be replaced
> with a new "login" that this group will develop?

With this project yes. Much of the heavy lifting with be from freeipa,
but we will need/add an api and interface on top to do what we need. 
> 
> Is this perhaps about cleaning up the incoherent multitude of half-
> baked authentication methods that packagers have to wrestle with, so
> we'll only need to authenticate once to work on a package?

Nope, but that is related, and something to be worked on/considered in
this as well. 

kevin


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Re: Update: AAA replacement login Initiative

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 12:47:05PM +, Ankur Sinha wrote:
> 
> Thank you. I had a look at the user stories and wondered: is it merely
> meant to be a modernisation/rewrite of FAS with the same features
> (and I assume: back-end improvements), or are new user facing (and
> other) features also intended to be added?

It is indeed a re-write, but a lot of the functionality is being moved
into the existing freeipa project. Initially, I think we want to just
implement those things we need, but of course new features would be good
to add as time/development permits.
> 
> As trivial examples off the top of my head (as a user): I was hoping
> we'd be able to mention multiple IRC nicknames in the new system so
> zodbot (and other services) could pick them up.  Similarly, given that
> we're using new social media platforms in the community now, I was
> hoping we could make it possible for user accounts to include this
> information (Telegram/Twitter/multiple e-mail accounts). Usability on
> mobile platforms is another issue with the current FAS, but I expect
> anything developed nowadays will be mobile compatible.

Yeah, those are both things worth suggesting, sure. ;) 
 
> I'm sure other community members have their own enhancements in mind.

Sure. 

> Have these and other limitations of the current FAS been
> discussed/listed somewhere so the new system doesn't end up having them
> too? (Sorry if the user stories were discussed with the community (the
> users in this case) already---I've been failing miserably to keep up
> with everything that goes on in Fedora in recent times :(.)

Yes, some of those things definitely have been discussed, but do feel
free to note them to the team / make sure they are taken under
consideration. 

kevin


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Re: Update: AAA replacement login Initiative

[Björn Persson]

Neal Gompa wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 6:56 AM Fabio Valentini  wrote:
> > - What does AAA stand for? (Or am I supposed to know that already?)
> > - What is this new group actually working on?
> >
> > The only "substantial" thing I can see here are the three words "AAA
> > replacement login", which means nothing to me :sad-face:  
> 
> AAA = Authentication, Authorization, Accounting
> 
> Essentially, we're talking about FAS.

So what the phrase means is that the existing authentication,
authorization and accounting functionality in FAS is to be replaced
with a new "login" that this group will develop?

Is this perhaps about cleaning up the incoherent multitude of half-
baked authentication methods that packagers have to wrestle with, so
we'll only need to authenticate once to work on a package?

Björn Persson


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Re: Update: AAA replacement login Initiative

[Ankur Sinha]

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 11:46:50 +, Sarah Finn wrote:
> Hi all, 

Hello,

> 
> I hope you are all well. 
> 
> I would like to invite you to contribute to our new initiative: AAA
> replacement login.

Thank you. I had a look at the user stories and wondered: is it merely
meant to be a modernisation/rewrite of FAS with the same features
(and I assume: back-end improvements), or are new user facing (and
other) features also intended to be added?

As trivial examples off the top of my head (as a user): I was hoping
we'd be able to mention multiple IRC nicknames in the new system so
zodbot (and other services) could pick them up.  Similarly, given that
we're using new social media platforms in the community now, I was
hoping we could make it possible for user accounts to include this
information (Telegram/Twitter/multiple e-mail accounts). Usability on
mobile platforms is another issue with the current FAS, but I expect
anything developed nowadays will be mobile compatible.

I'm sure other community members have their own enhancements in mind.
Have these and other limitations of the current FAS been
discussed/listed somewhere so the new system doesn't end up having them
too? (Sorry if the user stories were discussed with the community (the
users in this case) already---I've been failing miserably to keep up
with everything that goes on in Fedora in recent times :(.)

-- 
Thanks again,
Regards,
Ankur Sinha "FranciscoD" (He / Him / His) | 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha
Time zone: Europe/London


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Re: Update: AAA replacement login Initiative

[Neal Gompa]

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 6:56 AM Fabio Valentini  wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 12:47 PM Sarah Finn  wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I hope you are all well.
> >
> > I would like to invite you to contribute to our new initiative: AAA 
> > replacement login.
>
> Hi!
>
> Uhm, I have two (or three) simple questions ...
>
> - What does AAA stand for? (Or am I supposed to know that already?)
> - What is this new group actually working on?
>
> The only "substantial" thing I can see here are the three words "AAA
> replacement login", which means nothing to me :sad-face:

AAA = Authentication, Authorization, Accounting

Essentially, we're talking about FAS.


-- 
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Re: Update: AAA replacement login Initiative

[Fabio Valentini]

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 12:47 PM Sarah Finn  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I hope you are all well.
>
> I would like to invite you to contribute to our new initiative: AAA 
> replacement login.

Hi!

Uhm, I have two (or three) simple questions ...

- What does AAA stand for? (Or am I supposed to know that already?)
- What is this new group actually working on?

The only "substantial" thing I can see here are the three words "AAA
replacement login", which means nothing to me :sad-face:

Fabio

>
>
> Currently, we have a team of 4 Red Hatters working on this. We have chosen to 
> work within a Scrum framework. Our first ( 2 week) sprint kicked off last 
> week 1/7/20 with a sprint planning session. Our first sprint review will take 
> place on Tuesday 1/21/20.
>
> We will be publishing a blog each fortnight on community forums with a 
> summary of our sprint review and sprint planning session for the upcoming 
> sprint.  You are invited to provide feedback on your review/plan for our 
> consideration. The first blog will be published Wednesday 1/22/20.
>
> You will find our backlog ( issues ) here  and our scrum board with current 
> sprint user stories here. Our Tech lead, will be refining/prioritising the 
> backlog as we work our way through each sprint, preparing for the next 
> sprint. The issues/user stories at the top of the backlog are the user 
> stories that have been flagged as must do/ high value tasks to complete by 
> the Tech lead. We do welcome your input on the backlog (Issues) , so please 
> add your thoughts, ideas, questions as a comment for the Tech lead and team 
> to review. These will be reviewed prior to each sprint planning session for 
> consideration.
>
> We have a Freenode IRC channel #fedora-aaa where we welcome you to join. We 
> will be discussing ad hoc items regarding this project here. We also meet 
> regularly on this channel for stand up's four times a week. Mon & Wed at 0915 
> UTC and Tues  at 1530 UTC for 15 minutes.
>
> I will be updating the Wiki page over the next couple of days with a high 
> level overview of the project and our communication plan. As with Scrum, we 
> may tweak our process as we progress through the project. If our process does 
> change, I will update the Wiki page.
>
> If you have questions relating to an issue( user story ) on the backlog ( 
> issues ) please comment on it, and tag a team member , we will revert back.
>
> If you would like to add an issue, please create and issue, give as much 
> detail as possible and tag a team member so we can review.
>
> If you have questions relating to anything else, please reply to this thread.
>
> Thanks a mill,
>
> Sarah Finn
>
> She/Her
>
> Agile Practitioner
>
> Red Hat
>
> Waterford, Ireland
>
> sf...@redhat.com
> M: 0879830832
>
> @RedHat   Red Hat  Red Hat
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Update: AAA replacement login Initiative

[Sarah Finn]

Hi all,

I hope you are all well.

I would like to invite you to contribute to our new initiative: AAA
replacement login.

Currently, we have a team of 4 Red Hatters working on this. We have chosen
to work within a Scrum framework. Our first ( 2 week) sprint kicked off
last week 1/7/20 with a sprint planning session. Our first sprint review
will take place on Tuesday 1/21/20.

We will be publishing a blog each fortnight on community forums with a
summary of our sprint review and sprint planning session for the upcoming
sprint.  You are invited to provide feedback on your review/plan for our
consideration. The first blog will be published Wednesday 1/22/20.

You will find our backlog ( issues ) here
 and our scrum board with
current sprint user stories here
. Our Tech lead, will be
refining/prioritising the backlog as we work our way through each sprint,
preparing for the next sprint. The issues/user stories at the top of the
backlog are the user stories that have been flagged as must do/ high value
tasks to complete by the Tech lead. We do welcome your input on the backlog
(Issues) , so please add your thoughts, ideas, questions as a comment for
the Tech lead and team to review. These will be reviewed prior to each
sprint planning session for consideration.

We have a Freenode IRC channel #fedora-aaa where we welcome you to join. We
will be discussing ad hoc items regarding this project here. We also meet
regularly on this channel for stand up's four times a week. Mon & Wed at
0915 UTC and Tues  at 1530 UTC for 15 minutes.

I will be updating the Wiki page over the next couple of days with a high
level overview of the project and our communication plan. As with Scrum, we
may tweak our process as we progress through the project. If our process
does change, I will update the Wiki page.

If you have questions relating to an issue( user story ) on the backlog (
issues ) please comment on it, and tag a team member , we will revert back.

If you would like to add an issue, please create and issue, give as much
detail as possible and tag a team member so we can review.

If you have questions relating to anything else, please reply to this
thread.

Thanks a mill,

Sarah Finn

She/Her

Agile Practitioner

Red Hat 

Waterford, Ireland

sf...@redhat.com
M: 0879830832
@RedHat    Red Hat
  Red Hat


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